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The Royal Archives => TSL General Archives => Topic started by: ATMachine on February 11, 2011, 08:55:32 PM

Title: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: ATMachine on February 11, 2011, 08:55:32 PM
Hello there!

Apologies if this post seems image-heavy, but it illustrates a point.

On Akril's excellent Sierra Resource Files site (http://www.akril15.com/sr/SierraResources.html), there are several sketches extracted from the resource files of Inside the Chest/Behind the Developers' Shield (http://www.akril15.com/sr/ChestShieldRes.html) from the KQ Collection. In particular, there are several pencil sketches for high-resolution character portraits in KQ6.

There's a portrait of Lady Celeste of the Winged Ones, which shows her much as she appears in the final game.

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/celeste.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/celeste1.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/celestekqvi.png)
Left and middle: two versions of the Celeste portrait from the resource files. Right: Celeste portrait from KQ6 Windows.

She looks much like the Winged Ones do in general: human-style light skin tone, dark hair, dark irises. The Winged One gate guard looks very similar:
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/wingguard.png)

However, there are also sketches for dialogue portraits of Lord Azure and Lady Aeriel (which were eventually scrapped). These early drawings show the Winged Ones as having blank white eyes.

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/azure.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/azure1.png)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/aeriel.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/aeriel1.png)
At top, two versions of Azure's portrait drawing; at bottom, two versions of Aeriel's, all from the Chest/Shield resource files.

Interestingly, however, the KQ6 hintbook features an alternate drawing for Lady Celeste's portrait. Here she has lighter hair and blank white eyes, like the early portraits of Azure and Aeriel.

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/celesteazure.png)
Celeste's portrait sketch next to Azure's, from the hint book.

InterAction Magazine vol. 5, no. 3, from Fall 1992, also features a black-and-white preparatory drawing for the background art of Azure on his throne (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/azurethrone.png), in which he appears to have blank white eyes as well.

What to make of this? Well....

I may be going out on a limb here, but, judging by the lighter hair of Celeste in her earlier dialogue portrait, I suspect the original intention of the Sierra artists may have been to make the Winged Ones resemble Roman marble statues. That is, they'd have marble-white skin and hair, and blank white eyes.

This would correspond to the Greek/Roman-inspired style of Winged One art and architecture as seen in-game in KQ6. In the final game, though, the Winged Ones look like actual people from Italy, as commonly stereotyped (light skin, dark hair, dark eyes).

Of course, I could be wrong (the portraits ARE black and white, and it's hard to tell for sure). But the Winged Ones DEFINITELY originally had blank white eyes, at least.

(Ironically, actual Greek and Roman statues were painted in bright, gaudy colors, which included the pupil and iris of the statues' eyes. It's only due to thousands of years of wear and weathering that the paint has come off those statues that survive today, creating a common misperception of what a Roman statue "should" look like.)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: kindofdoon on February 11, 2011, 09:08:02 PM
Great post! Really interesting finds.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
More development art here (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Heir_Today,_Gone_Tomorrow_Development)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Lambonius on February 11, 2011, 09:38:03 PM
Not to mention the fact that the gate guard is a carbon copy of Augustus of Primaporta.

Actually, not ALL Greco-Roman statues were brightly painted.  Greek marbles--yes, usually.  Especially when used for temple decoration.  Roman marbles--it depended on the context.  Also, most Greek statues weren't actually marble at all, but bronze--they mostly used marble only if the statue was part of an architectural setting (i.e. temple decoration, fountain, etc.)  Marble became more common later in the ancient Greek era, though, especially as more and more bronze statues were melted down to make use of the metal.

But yes, you're definitely right on the money about the inspiration for the Winged Ones.  ;)

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/wingguard.png)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/Augustus_closeup.png)

(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/SC-Augustus.jpg)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: KatieHal on February 11, 2011, 09:48:13 PM
Neat! Blank-eyed Winged Ones would've been cool too--and kind of creepy as well. That definitely would've gone well with their anti-human attitudes, by establishing them as even more clearly different from humans.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 09:52:48 PM
Point of note, TSL's Oracle has blank eyes, heh.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: KatieHal on February 11, 2011, 11:10:52 PM
Yeah, but she's all mystical and stuff. That's different ;)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Haids1987 on February 12, 2011, 01:45:03 AM
And blank eyes would insinuate that she's blind.  A blind prophet is symbolic, and shows up in other myths and stories, such as Oedipus Rex. :yes:
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: KatieHal on February 12, 2011, 07:07:21 AM
Oh right! That, too. I remember thinking that as well when I first saw it.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Lambonius on February 12, 2011, 08:22:13 AM
Yep.  She's supposed to be a version of the Oracle at Delphi, who was famously blind in Greek mythology.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 12, 2011, 12:19:02 PM
It's interesting if you go into the KQ6 artwork/animation, it does appear that the Oracle, has pupils, but her eyes light up, and fade back to dark, similar to the flashing eyes of the Oracle in KQ3.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: ATMachine on February 12, 2011, 12:22:07 PM
On the related subject of the Chest/Shield resource file images.... this early portrait sketch of a woman in KQ6 seems mysterious at first.

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/earlyvalanice.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/earlyvalanice1.png)

However, I'm going to guess that it's most likely Valanice.

Note how similar the woman's hair in the above drawing is to Valanice's hair in her final in-game portrait. Both have hair that's piled high on their head, with a sort of ribbed shape to it:

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/valanicesketch.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/valanicekq6.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/valanicekq6dos.png)
Left: Pencil sketch for the Windows high-res portrait. Middle: KQ6 Windows portrait of Valanice. Right: KQ6 DOS portrait of Valanice.

Also, the costume seen in the early sketch above is decidedly Elizabethan, with a high ruff collar. Alexander's costume, too, is Elizabethan in style, being essentially a variant on a slashed doublet.

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq6screen2.png) (http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq6screen7.png)

So, if the mystery portrait IS Valanice, this would establish Daventry fashion as being like that of Tudor England.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 12, 2011, 12:25:01 PM
Valanice's Wardrobe. (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Valanice%27s_Wardrobe)

Alexander's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander%27s_Wardrobe)

Graham's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Graham%27s_Wardrobe)

Rosella's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Rosella%27s_Wardrobe)

Edward's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Edward%27s_Wardrobe)

Cassima's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Cassima%27s_Wardrobe)
Connor's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Connor%27s_Wardrobe)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Enchantermon on February 12, 2011, 01:41:16 PM
Oh, hey, they reused the Enhanced portrait from KQVI in KQVIII. That's cool.

Now, I've only seen a few of the high-res portraits, but to be honest, I think the low-res ones look much more pleasant. Alex looks friendlier in his, and Valanice actually looks pretty; her high-res portrait has a bored look, and looks like her jaw is jutting out.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: KatieHal on February 12, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
Rosella's wardrobe page seems to be busted and/or empty, btw. Ah...nope, you've got the link slightly wrong, actually. I'll fix it.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 12, 2011, 02:01:51 PM
On the related subject of the Chest/Shield resource file images.... this early portrait sketch of a woman in KQ6 seems mysterious at first.

If you colour it green and imagine it a lot more cartoony it's the spitting image of Valanice from KQ7. Right down to the frilly collar.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 12, 2011, 02:28:07 PM
Reminds me, I still need to upload a couple dozen high res concept art from KQ7 into the Omnipedia for the KQ7 development page.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: kindofdoon on February 12, 2011, 06:07:53 PM
Oh, hey, they reused the Enhanced portrait from KQVI in KQVIII. That's cool.

Now, I've only seen a few of the high-res portraits, but to be honest, I think the low-res ones look much more pleasant. Alex looks friendlier in his, and Valanice actually looks pretty; her high-res portrait has a bored look, and looks like her jaw is jutting out.

You're right. Also, generally, the low-res portraits generally view characters straight-on, whereas the high-res portraits view characters at an angle. Maybe that has something to do with the effect.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Enchantermon on February 12, 2011, 07:10:23 PM
Hmm. Perhaps. I need to take some time to see them all.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: koko_99_2001 on February 12, 2011, 09:04:27 PM
Looking at the pics, turns out I played the DOS version of KQVI. When I started seeing other pics of the characters later, I was so confused, since that's not what I had grown up on! I do prefer the DOS pics verses the high-res.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 12, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
I played dos originally, but played windows later. I've always preferred most of the high res versions overall, but that's probably because many of the characters like Jollo look superior in the high res.

Jollo's face looks like its sliced in two in los res version.

Alhazred looks alot more sinister in the high res.

Beast looks more beastly.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Damar on February 13, 2011, 09:22:03 AM
When I saw those first pictures, I just assumed that the Winged Ones were supposed to have blank eyes.  Having them be literal marble statues just seemed too weird.  But now I'm thinking back on the game and it seems I remember the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles talking about the Winged Ones' belief in the Ancient Ones, who predated them.  I think (not one hundred percent certain) that there was an implication in their legend that the Ancient Ones actually created the Winged Ones, or gave them culture or some such.  I wonder if the original concept, then, was to literally portray the Winged Ones as a created species, a series of marble statues brought to life by an ancient civilization.  The Ancient Ones were big on carving stone after all.  They were the ones, according to the Guidebook, that created the Cliffs of Logic.

It also, if they were originally supposed to be marble statues, buts some of the comments that are made about the Winged Ones in context.  They're always described as beautiful, which I found interesting.  Yeah, the wings are nice, but outside of that, they're human.  Tall and athletic but still looking pretty human.  If they were originally supposed to be living statues, then those comments suddenly make more sense as someone describing art.  Living, breathing art.

Ultimately, though, I like the current look of the Winged Ones.  Monochromatic statues would look kind of boring.  And as for the blank eyes, while it would be cool, the only thing I'd be able to think of would be Gary Mitchell from Star Trek the Original Series.  Seriously, silver eyes and a disdain for humanity?  That's Gary Mitchell.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 13, 2011, 11:23:25 AM
Damar the quote that you are referring to is;
Quote
It is a matter of much debate whether or not the Ancient Ones themselves possessed the power of flight. Despite their theology, the remains of the Ancient Ones do not bear the wings that distinguish the Isle of the Sacred Mountain's current inhabitants. The Winged Ones firmly believe the Ancient Ones flew without wings, thus proving themselves superior even to the Winged Ones themselves. Some scholars on the Isle of the Crown, however, believe that the Ancient Ones could not fly, and that their obsessive interest in flight and their secret knowledge enabled them to create a winged race, the descendants of whom are the Winged Ones. Ah, but such things we will never know for certain, for true understanding was buried along with the last of that long-dead race. -Guidebook
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: koko_99_2001 on February 13, 2011, 01:01:16 PM
I can see why the high-res shots look better. But for me, it's all about the nostalgia. The first KQ game I played was DOS' KQVI. :)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 13, 2011, 02:21:57 PM
My first KQ (well at least owning a computer) was KQV floppy.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: ATMachine on February 14, 2011, 02:46:16 PM
Interestingly, the KQ Companion 3rd Edition describes Lady Celeste as having "long red hair." In the actual game all the Winged Ones, including Celeste, have black hair.

The Companion also confirms that the Ancient Ones created the Winged Ones. Plus, not only are the Winged Ones constantly referred to as "beautiful," they're even described as "perfect" in appearance, as contrasted with the "imperfect" beauty of a human like Cassima. I suspect that Damar's analysis of them as "living, breathing art" is pretty much spot-on.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 14, 2011, 03:39:28 PM
To be fair, the Companion has some slight differences to the history of the Winged Ones vs. Ancients compared to the Guidebook.

For example it suggests that the Winged Ones built the Logic Cliffs rather than the Ancients, that the Ancient language, is the language of the Winged Ones, and that the Winged Ones set up the traps in the catacombs, and it is the Winged Ones who were buried in the catacombs.

Actually the companion just calls the Ancients, the "the precursors of the Winged Ones", or describes the winged ones as their "decendents", which actually would suggest that Winged Ones may have not just been created, but "evolved/decended" from the Ancients (perhaps implying genetic engineering). There is also several references to the race being 'humans with wings", but much larger (humans are described as being "stunted").

The Companion novel is based on early storyline concepts for the game, and has several differences from the final version seen in the game. The copper coin has Valanice's face rather than Graham's. The drink me bottle is empty. The feather stays black after being stirred into the magic paint, etc. Peter Spear actually discusses the fact that things were different in the finalized version in the game in the chapter before the novel.

The Guidebook would seem to suggest that there was some kind of intermediate race, that evolved to become the Winged Ones.

On a related note;

Winged Ones (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Winged_Ones)

Ancients (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Ancients)

Celeste's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Celeste%27s_Wardrobe#Artwork)

Winged One Guards (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Winged_One_Guards)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: KatieHal on February 14, 2011, 07:57:05 PM
That link goes to Celeste's wardrobe, Baggins. :)
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: Baggins on February 14, 2011, 08:22:50 PM
It should be going to Celeste's wardrobe :). Just a typo.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: ATMachine on March 30, 2011, 09:01:42 AM
Thought I'd do a little thread necromancy here.

Remember I mentioned how I surmised (based on close scrutiny of black-and-white character portrait drawings from Behind the Developer's Shield) that the Winged Ones of KQ6 were originally going to look like living statues?

Well, today I watched KQ6ART.AVI, a movie file on the KQ6 CD which contains almost all the high-res background art from KQ6. It's a treasure trove of unused stuff, incidentally, and is really fascinating to look at. (However, I had to run it on Windows 3.1 emulated in DOSbox; the .avi file doesn't like modern media players, in which the picture tends to get glitchy.)

So, look what I found:

(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq6earlywingedones.png)

It's the background drawing of Lord Azure and Lady Aeriel as they originally looked--white-marble-esque, blank-eyed living statues.
Title: Re: KQ6 Winged Ones - early concept for appearance
Post by: kindofdoon on March 30, 2011, 01:37:23 PM
Good find. I'm surprised the .avi file was giving you trouble. I remember watching that on Windows Vista without problem.