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Is AGDI going to remake KQ3 or 4 after QfG2? Cuz if they dont that whole "Father" plot thread is just going to fall through the cracks.... ;P

i heard they were going to remake KQ3 after their current project ;)

I believe they haven't said anything about what they might do after QFG 2; there is a group remaking KQ4 in VGA, some members of AGDI's forums, but I don't recall their name of have the link handy...Storm posted it not too long ago, I believe! Err,...somwhere!

i thought when i was looking through AGDI's site that i found info on what they were making next ???

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see

Right now, the only thing they are working on is QFG2.  They've said many times they have NO definate plans afterward at this point.  No one knows, except maybe them (and I'm not even sure they've made a decision).  it might be KQ3, another game, or maybe an original game.  We'll have to wait and see.

There is somemone in progress of KQ4 though, can't recall who it is though, if if they're still working on it.

here is a link to the kq4 remake site:
http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/spongefactory/

there are some screenshots e.d. Don't know if there is a lot of progress though

o well QFG2 will be good ;D

Quote from: B'rrr on March 05, 2004, 05:57:23 AM
here is a link to the kq4 remake site:
http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/spongefactory/

there are some screenshots e.d. Don't know if there is a lot of progress though

Yep, that's Muzlak's project  ;)
Frankly, I'm not holding my breath for it - that guy said he's writing his own engine (though I can't fathom why, AGS looks just fine for what he's doing), and he's working on some other games as well. It looks like he's experimenting with game making rather than trying to get something completed  :-\

At any rate, even if that KQ4 remake is completed, it would probably just stick to the original plotline, and since it's not an AGDI game, it wouldn't continue what they started with "The Father" in KQ2+  ::)

AGDI are good at what they do so ill stick to there remakes XB

I agree, I relayed liked KQII+ (or so some have called it). It was great fun to play and the story had some nice depth. I wasn't too wild about some of the cut scenes (close-up’s of Graham) but that’s personal taste.

It’s odd because I’d like to see KQ III and IV be developed by them but I know it would be better for them to start developing their own property and do something they can ultimately market seriously!  !!!

IIRC, AGDI said they will eventually make original games, but as another company under a different title - http://www.himalayastudios.com/. The site isn't updated - guess they're too busy with the QFG2 remake  8)

I dont know... I just think it's a little more than silly to start a major plot thread, then abandon it. Must be the writer in me coming out...  ::)

Here's the deal on the Father, I remember reading this on the boards:
The Father was a device used to set up all the other plots in the KQ series.  This was specifically so he did not *need* to be used in later ones, but so that he could if they decided to make their own KQ sequel.  

As for what AGDI makes after QfG2 VGA, they keep saying they haven't decided.  Sure, KQ3 is one a lot of people are asking for, but if they remade something that was not a KQ or even in the Fantasy genre, it would bring more people in the Adventure gaming genre, and since that is part of their goal.....
It's looking like KQ3 may not become VGA for a while.

Yeah, I think AGDI can only do so many fan remakes before they get tired of it and begin making their own (commercial) games. Should that happen before they remake KQ3, I hope they would give someone else the "rights" to remake a KQ3 that continues the KQ2+ plotline - AFAIK the KQ2+ plotwriter already has a pretty much finish plot for a KQ3 remake, and I'm sure everyone who played KQ2+ would want to see that  ;)

Technically, anyone at all can make their own game and remake KQ3's storyline and even take their own stab at who they think the Father is. It's just that asking would be a nicer way of doing things ;-)  I'd like to see KQ3 remade with more plot & detail as well, it's got great potential as is for something like that, Father or no Father!

KQ3's always ranked right up there with my favorite King's Quests.  I loved the plot.  But now, being older and wiser, there's more that they could do with it.  The bandits had some unused plot potential.  There should've been *something* more in the desert.  It should not have been possible to dispose of Mananan after his very first journey...makes the game *waay* too short.  There should've been more of Daventry.
But I don't see how the Father could be worked into that particular King's Quest real well.  Where could he be fit in?  After the return of Rosella and Alexander?  That's right when KQ4 starts though!  AAGH!  I can't think of where to put the Father!!!

The desert was fairly useless, and the bandits were interesting but again undeveloped, agreed.

Well, heck, the Father wouldn't even have to be in it!!  On its own, KQ3 could get developed further, have more of a town (hence a reason for bandits) and some more funky stuff going on in the desert and all.

Ohhh...stop making me think of cool stuff! I've got enough to do with making a game as it is! Hahah,  ;-D

Quote from: KatieHal on April 14, 2004, 07:55:38 AM
Technically, anyone at all can make their own game and remake KQ3's storyline and even take their own stab at who they think the Father is. It's just that asking would be a nicer way of doing things ;-)

Sure, anyone could do a KQ3 remake with a plotline that relys on AGDI's KQ3, there is very little AGDI could do against that. But I think most KQ2+ fans would want to see what the original author had in mind :)
And if AGDI decide they're never going to make KQ3+, I don't see why they'll refuse to let someone else do it  ;)

I've only played KQ2+ about twelve times, I had *no* idea that the Father showed up there! ::)
I'm sorry, forgive me almight Storm!!
I meant, since you're playing as Alex, where would the Father show up?  Clearly, that scene won't work since Alex is swimming off the the coast at the time (ever killed yourself there?  Wooo fun!  And then you find out how absolutely pointless it was!)
This is exciting me!!!  I don't have any specific ideas, though.  Does anyone else?  Should we make a thread for KQ3 ideas in another section so as to be *remotely* on topic?

I had a "KQ3+ suggestions" thread on the AGDI forum a while back... anyways we're not so far off-topic, we're still sorta discussing the KQ2+ plotline. Plus Yonkey could just split this thread if he decides it's too off-topic  :)

In KQ3+, there could be cutscenes Alexander isn't a part of (like the Hagatha/Father scene in KQ2+ or the Alhazrad/Shamir scenes in KQ6).
There could also a scene with Alex confronting The Father, after he defeats the dragon and foils his evil plan  ;)

More cut scenes of Alex feeling destitute and wishing for freedom, for one thing ;-) Cut scenes of him as the eagle or fly would be great!! Get a bird's eye view when playing that part of it...that'd be awesome.

Alex having to maybe do more in town...save the people from the bandits somehow, for example, and get an item that way.

hmmm!

And a cutscene with his birthmark? (ducks and runs)

Peace & Luv, Liz

As soon as the phrase contest was over, I thought of this: Aww, Rosella, do you have to see it again?", or something like that.

Uh......no, Jeysie, no.  We're talking about adventure gaming, not porn.
I definitely more to do in town would be nice.  Perhaps drawing the town like it has more than two buildings, even, would be a nice touch.
Hmmm...perhaps adding something with the barmaid?  She was always just *there*, with no real purpose.
Maybe a bit more with the three bears would be cool...
As far as the desert, here is my idea so far: A mummy.  The only mummy we see in the whole series (to my knowledge) is that mindless one in KQ4.  How about having to set a mummy to rest?  In return, perhaps, it could give you a way past the giant spider that doesn't involve turning into an eagle (because I thought that was a stupid way of getting past the spider).

Quote from: Storm on April 14, 2004, 01:46:33 PM
Plus Yonkey could just split this thread if he decides it's too off-topic  :)

Don't mind if I do!  !!!  AAAAH! WOOOAWOOOHA! BLABLUBLUHBLEH! :o
(read in the voice of Homer Simpson from the halloween episode, after Marge asks "All work and no play makes Homer... go crazy?"  ;P)

It just occured to me that the most government Llewdor ever had was Mananan watching over it.  There must have been more to it than that...but what?  Any thoughts?

Sure, you could include a mummy, but wouldn't it be better to expand on the Medusa? maybe give her a nice castle in the desert you have to infiltrate to kill her... that mirror thing was just too easy  :-\

Quote from: Yonkey on April 14, 2004, 05:04:46 PM

Quote from: Storm on April 14, 2004, 01:46:33 PM
Plus Yonkey could just split this thread if he decides it's too off-topic  :)

Don't mind if I do!  !!!  AAAAH! WOOOAWOOOHA! BLABLUBLUHBLEH! :o
(read in the voice of Homer Simpson from the halloween episode, after Marge asks "All work and no play makes Homer... go crazy?"  ;P)

Now you're reminding me of my brother... he has a Simpsons quote for everything  :P

BTW, you should name this thread KQ3+ or KQ3 VGA or something that would indicate it's a remake we're discussing, not the original game  8)

I suppose I'll go ahead and supply the obligatory, "What were you going to call it, Yonkey?"

"You down with KQ3?  Yeah, you know me!"  XD

Ok, it was a bit too cheesy, so that's another reason.  :P

Quoting "Naughty By Nature" lyrics, Yonkey? Wow, is that so 80's! (Early 90's? Drat, I forget. It's old, anyway.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

 ;D

I think it was early 90's. <3  But also considering the seriousness of this thread, I decided against it as well.  ;P  Ok, I'll stop talking now since we're going off topic.

I haven't played KQ3 myself yet, so I'm pretty eager to see the AGDI remake of it.  I never played KQ2 or 1 either, so their remakes were really great for me!  :D

I've played a little bit of KQ3, but that's it. I hate text parsers, though, so I'd be very happy for a remake as well. ;)

I've downloaded KQ2+, but I haven't had time to play it yet, still. I'm itching to, though, from what I keep hearing people talk about it!

Peace & Luv, Liz

Well, see, I havent' played KQ7.  Had I known they'd done something like that, I wouldn't have suggested it. Hmm, I suppose I should've known they'd done that.
If it involved the medusa, you'd need a reason to go into her castle.  Maybe you have to get the snakeskin from her head!  No, I'm kidding.
I know there were other ways of getting past the yeti, I always used the stone.  But I think that there should have been a better way to get past the spider.  Maybe something else using the eagle could be involved.  Maybe that's how you get into medusa's fortress?

They should get rid of the teleport stone. It was dumb and pointless.

They should make the magic map take you all the way to the top of the mountain  ;P

I second that!  I hate that mountain!  Why can't Mananan live on the same level as everyone else?

It would also made his telescope rather useless ;)

I vote they cancel that mountain path altogether. It's stupid enought that it's there in the firstplace - Manannan doesn't use the path himself, and Alex isn't supposed to go anywhere... Manannan must be some kind of an idiot not to block it :P
The only way to go down/up the mountain in KQ3+ should be either magic map or flying as an eagle... kill that awful path!!  :P

Agreed, a cool variation in a KQ3+ would be NO stupid mountain path and instead have the ability to get the magic map or the transport stone all available on the mountain itself, just tricky-like ;)

I would make it so that you can make the teleport stone on the mountain, that it will *only* take you to the bottom of the mountain or to the top!  But, yes, any way of getting rid of that *awful* path would be an improvement!

If they get rid of the path, how will Derek discover the house then? :P

He'll just have to train very hard with his pogo-stick  ;P

I agree the magic map is pretty useless, except for running away from random monsters. Same with the rock... at least one of those should be cancelled. Turning into an eagle to get on/off the mountain would be cool  8)

Maybe Mananan should just live on the same level as everyone else and have a *really* tall tower with a telescope in it?  That could work, and it would solve the Derek issue.

But the mountain is important ;), if there is no mountain then there is no KQ3 :-\

There should be a mountain, just no mountain path. We can't accomodate Derek on EVERYTHING... he can just scale the cliff to the top with a rope and a couple of stakes  ::)

Y'know, I bet that between us, we could write the entire KQ3+ plot!!  ;)

whats wrong with the mountain path besides falling off ???

Good idea, Storm!  We COULD, and then we could just give the plot and such to a group of people who are technically skilled......that might actually not be a bad idea!

Well, Jason...the thing is...if Mananan didn't use it, and he didn't 'cause he could teleport or whatever, and Gwydion wasn't allowed down the mountain...logically, it would make sense not to have it there.  And yet, Mananan did.  And then he was surprised and angry when his slaves could leave the mountain, despite the fact that the path was *right* there.  He's a smarter bad guy than that, I think.
Although, maybe villagers from Bruce brought things up to him sometimes.  That would explain both the path and the food in the kitchen.  We could, however, say that Mananan buys his own food when he's out and get rid of the path and the food question that way.

ok i understand thanks for explaining ;)

The path was there before the castle, and it would've taken too much magic to remove it. ;)

Well....he should've at least fenced it off or something!

Quote from: Oldbushie on April 23, 2004, 06:38:15 PM
The path was there before the castle, and it would've taken too much magic to remove it. ;)

It would have been easy enough for a powerful wizard like Manannan to do. If he can zap Alex into dust with very little effort, he could probably do away with that path in a couple of hour, at the most  ;)

I never had any problems with the path ;D

Just wondering, Racx... have you ever played KQ3?  ;P

i waited for Mannanan to say im going on a little trip ;), then i tried going down the path ;D, but that reminds me i had trouble with the part where the path is behind the rock and you cant see where you are going :-\, so i did have trouble with the path ;B, but still not any major problems :D

I don't think people had problems or got seriously stuck on the path... it was just darn irritating, that's all  :-\

i dont really have much of a problem with the path :-\

Don't tell me you ENJOYED it  :o

I didnt enjoy it but without the path the game would not be complete, lol ;D

But there will be lots of new fun stuff! you wouldn't even notice the path is missing!  ;-D

I probably would ;), BTW were there Walkthroughs made for AGDI's KQ1 and KQ2 ???

Sure -

KQ1 -
http://www.agdinteractive.com/KQ1-walk.php

KQ2 -
http://www.agdinteractive.com/KQ2-walk.php

Thanks Storm ;D

BTW thankyou Rob for trying to find them ;)

I kinda got stuck on a few parts :-\

hahahaha... actually i did found them, and posted them,... but when i tried the link it wasn't really working... but that was because my work pc was acting weird ; ( ...i only noticed that later, cuz i had more difficulties with that...

....anyway, i thought it wasn't working so i deleted the post ; \, but they were the same links storm posted ; )

The path was certainable DOABLE, but yes, was darn annoying. Especially since you had to make more than one trip down, AND back up.

And also, if there was no path at all, that adds some intrigue to the idea of a KQ3+.  You're there thinking, okay, I know I have to get out of here, but there's no way down without magic! Okay, so whatever I need HAS to be in this house and on this mountain. Or heck, maybe even adding some kind cave path *inside* the mountain that you can find to also get down, but it's not as annoying or difficult as that original path.

Oooooh, I like that idea!  And maybe even Mananan wouldn't know about the secret passage inside the mountain...after all, he can't see it with his telescope!
But that begs the question...how do you find it?

QuoteThe path was certainable DOABLE, but yes, was darn annoying. Especially since you had to make more than one trip down, AND back up.

Ack! That path drove me insane. Every path where falling two inches was enough to kill me, I hated. Though I thought the worst part of the game was trying to get down the stairs with Rosella. I died so many times in that sequence :(. Maybe I'm just inept ???

Rosella always got in my way on those staris and I couldn't move.  BAD ROSELLA!  I'll shove HER down the friggin' stairs!
Jason, you'd think Gwydion would have discovered it sooner if it was in his room....but maybe not if it was in the kitchen?  There's a big ol' fireplace that could have a secret in it....

Yeah, I think I figured that out eventually too...but its hard as heck to remember it when I play!  I'm still not entirely sure how I manage it, I just know that if I do soemthing a certain way it puts me in front of the stupid girl instead of the other way around.
If, in a remake, they use the same screens as they did in the KQ1 remake (which they should) of course, that solves the problem....sort of.  Plus, the software should be better so Rosella is NEVER in front of you.

There is another way of getting Rosella out of the way or atleast passing her ;), in one of the earlier threads i was told so i will try and find out for you both ;D

EDIT: when you make it outside and Rosella is in the way start walking back towards the tunnel and eventually she will move (but do not re-enter the cave), then try getting past her ;), if you still cant get past her, get her to move a bit more by walking back a bit futher towards the tunnel exit ;D

I can't think of any getting-past-Rosella techniques... all I remember is lots of saves & restores  ;P

The "hidden cave path in the mountain" idea doesn't appeal to me as much as the "no path at all" idea. There's already the secret lab in the house and a cave-in-the-mountain path somewhere else in the game.

Katie's right about the "no path" adding more intrigue - a dark, forbidding castle (we'll make the house more dark & forbidding, of course - the original one looks like a country house) on the top of a tall mountain, no visible means of escape... much more interesting 8)

Jason, that Rosella technique doesn't work while you're still IN the cave which is where she always got me.

I suppose it would be an interesting puzzle, getting off the mountain without any path at all...but then how do the food and things get there? We'd need to explain that somehow!  Also, you do have to go up and down the mountain at least.....uhm....three times, I think.  Are you suggesting we add some more times you can use eagle/fly spell before you run out of essence?

To answer QC's question about how food gets up there and all that....

*said like Jack Sparrow saying "Pirate!"*

"Magic!"

It's amazing how much can get shoved under the title of "magic" when you need it to.

The magic map you find could work like the one in KQ6 does. The transport stone could be completed sooner, the eagle/fly spell could be, or a new method and spell altogether!

Quote from: KatieHal on April 30, 2004, 12:41:14 PMIt's amazing how much can get shoved under the title of "magic" when you need it to.

Yep. Magic is a fantasy writer's best friend, especially when it comes to explaining stuff. I even has a Simpsons quote for the occasion:

QuoteAt a Xena fan meeting

Frink: ...In episode BF12, you were battling barbarians
           while riding a winged Appaloosa, yet in the
           very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop
           a winged Arabian.  Please do explain it.

Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice
            something like that, a wizard did it.

Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --

Lawless: Wizard.

Frink: [under breath] Aw, for glaven out loud.

The question "how the food & things get there" isn't addressed in the original game, much like the questions "who raised Alex" and "who served Manannan while he was growing up"  :-\

Using the eagle only once is a good idea, but I wanted to have you use it to fly into the Medusa's fortress thingy. :( Maybe some kind of levitation spell could be added that levitates you down the mountain?  That would be cool.

Yeah, the whole thing Rosella was pretty badly done.  I think nowadays, untying Rosella would have led to an ending video in which you led her down the stairs and to the castle automatically. That would have been *wonderful*.

I know realise how annoying the Mountain Path is :-\, i obviously forgot because i hadnt played it in ages ;D

and i agree with you Q the whole part with Rosella would make a better ending movie :D

Of course we'll have a whole different ending sequence! and no stupid stairs with Rosella following you and no silly throwing-of-the-hat right after the twins return. "Yay, our long-lost son returned, and he saved our beloved daughter! let's toss some hats around!" never made any sense to me :S

Ok so we remove the mountain path ;), we turn the cottage into an evil castle looking thing ;D, a rope is used to get off the mountain and there are no stairs to go down because it automatically starts a movie of the two back at the castle ;B

It could still be a cottage... but an EVIL-looking cottage ;P

And no rope to get off the mountain!! don't try turning Alex into Connor here! :o

Good one Storm :suffer:, that was funny :suffer:

Anyway he could use magic to get off the mountain ;)

Like I said, a levitation spell!!!

No levitation spell, just the "fly as an eagle" spell!

See, we're already having creative difference of opinions. This could be the begining of something truly useless :P

I'm fine with "Fly like an Eagle"...as long as you also use it to sneak into Medusa's fortress!

I thought we'd turned this into something useless a loong time ago. :P

As long as we're having fun with it ;)

Why don't you share your vision of Medusa's fortress with the rest of us?

Hehehe...I only have the outside pictured, and a way in...
But basically, its this big, ancient, stone building, sort of like the temple in KQ5 except out in the open, not set into any cliffs.  Also, there's snake statues decorating it.  And stone people, but they're not decorations.  There's windows around near the top, but other than that the only way in is a big door with ornate snake statues around it.  Obviously, the door is guarded and if you go through it, Medusa will know you're there and find you, and that won't end well.  I think you ought to have to have the element of surprise on her.
The other thing about her fortress is all the vultures.  Lots of vultures fly around it.  This is the clue that you need to use the "Fly Like an Eagle" spell to get in...the vultures fly in and out of the windows (which would be how you get in).
But that's all I got so far.  I also don't know what you need to get while you're in there.  Or why you know you need to go there...or....uhm...anything else.  But, doesn't it sound cool so far?

sounds interesting Q ;), but what could we use to get into Medusa's instead of the flying eagle spell ???

That's my point, Jason!  We need the spell to get in the window without her knowing. So I guess, we just need to make it so you can use the eagle twice: once to get off the mountain, and the other to get into the fortress.
The fly should also get used twice...once for eavesdropping on the bandits (which should be a *way* more substantial bit of plot) and once for seeing the rope, although that was never really necessary.  And I *know* that in the original that really only counted as one use, if you did it a certain way, but seriously....the fly could not open the door to leave the bar!  It's not possible!

What did you use the fly spell for in the original game? ???

You were supposed to eavesdrop on the bandits in the bar and then fly up the hole in the acorn tree to discover the rope.  As a fly.  It was really kind of silly and pointless, actually....

Storm, you can't get rid of the hat-throwing!! It leads directly into KQ4, and I think it's a very interesting and tense moment, and the hat determining sucessor is also symbolic. Also symbolic, IMO, is that no one ever actually gets the hat.

Should it be done right then and there? No, I don't think so. Some kind of passing of time should happen. But the whole in the moment of the hat being thrown and the king having the heart attack is just too intense to totally throw out!!

Katie has a point.  There is, of course, no reason we COULDN'T have time pass before that happens in the end....

Funny, I never knew that about the fly spell! *mutters*crappy walkthough*mutters* :P

Quote from: KatieHal on May 02, 2004, 02:40:46 PM
Storm, you can't get rid of the hat-throwing!! It leads directly into KQ4, and I think it's a very interesting and tense moment, and the hat determining sucessor is also symbolic. Also symbolic, IMO, is that no one ever actually gets the hat.

Should it be done right then and there? No, I don't think so. Some kind of passing of time should happen. But the whole in the moment of the hat being thrown and the king having the heart attack is just too intense to totally throw out!!

Don't worry, Katie, King Graham would still get his heart attack ;B We'll only omit the hat-throwing scene from KQ3+, it would still happen at the begining of KQ4. True, that scene ties up KQ3 with KQ4, but that is another reason why it should be removed from the end of KQ3+. Removing the scene would give KQ3+ better closure - KQ3 has the worst closure than any KQ.

Removing the scene would give us some ambiguity regarding how much time passed between the arrival of the twins and the throwing of the hat, and no one would be able to blame us for messing with the original timeline - our version wouldn't negate that these events happened consecutively, just give room for people to think otherwise  ;)

It would make more sense too, I think.  I mean, why pass on his hat to his son already? They *just* met.  That always irritated me.  They went from not even knowing Alexander was alive to being a perfectly normal family in seconds...

Some dude was doing kq3vga but he has taken a long vacation so lets hope that ADGD will do it after QFG2vga.

Yeah, but he wasn't doing it with our clearly fantastically thought out ideas. :P

Yes we have excellent ideas ;D, and that other person wouldnt have used them ;), so we must create KQ3+ !!!

Well....since all we have are ideas....
Maybe we could just hope whoever does make a KQ3+ reads this thread? ;D

This was an interesting thread to read, especially about the path and mountain.

If someone was going to make a remake of KQ3, they would probably implement it with pathfinding techniques, so that you click somewhere with the mouse and Alexander will go where you cliked. So the path wouldn't be a problem anymore :)
Just click on the lower half of the picture, and he'll find his way down the path himself.

Wee! A KQ3 remake would indeed be breathtaking... Medusas fortress and everything!

This was my first post on the KQ9-forum. I'm looking very much forward to KQ9 ;B

</SanSaurus>

Let me be the first to welcome you, SanSaurus!

Come, join in the insanity! You know you want to!

Cat

Quote from: koko_99_2001 on May 08, 2004, 05:51:03 AM
Let me be the first to welcome you, SanSaurus!

From the bottom of my heart, I thank you! ;)

FYI...SanSaurus, you need to fill in more of your info...age, location, AIM, MSN, YIM, etc...we people on the board need a way to stalk you!  ;D

Cat

I think they should make you use keyboard controls JUST for the mountain part! It was part of the fun trying to get back up to the house in time and continuously falling off heheh.

Oh yeah welcome SanSaurus!

Welcome SanSaurus!! ...enjoy the forum, enjoy the site and enjoy KQ9 (when you get it ; )

Quote from: koko_99_2001 on May 08, 2004, 06:47:33 AM
FYI...SanSaurus, you need to fill in more of your info...age, location, AIM, MSN, YIM, etc...we people on the board need a way to stalk you!  ;D

Cat, no stalking until he posted at least 10 times, we might scare him  ;-D

I never said that I was going to be the one to do the stalking ;)

Cat

I'm glad you liked my Medusa's fortress idea! :)
While the pathfinding thing would work, I suppose, it still doesn't get rid of the fact that the path didn't make sense.  I'm all for having to use magic to get off the mountain.
And, Alex, you're officially off the KQ3+ team!  I don't care if there isn't one, just for that idea I'm firing you! :P

I hope you enjoy posting here ;), BTW im glad you actually read our two page talk about KQ3+ ;D

Welcome to the kq9 forums Saurus! :D

QuoteAnd, Alex, you're officially off the KQ3+ team!  I don't care if there isn't one, just for that idea I'm firing you!

HAR! People want it so easy nowadays! If you could just of pressed a button to get up the mountain where would all the pressure and tension of getting back to the house on time of come from hmmmmmm? Exactly it would be a pointless having a limit on the amount of time you could spend out if you could get back at the click of a button. So MNNMM! I dont wanna be on the team anyway :P:P:P:P:P:P

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on May 08, 2004, 02:12:43 PM

QuoteAnd, Alex, you're officially off the KQ3+ team!  I don't care if there isn't one, just for that idea I'm firing you!

HAR! People want it so easy nowadays! If you could just of pressed a button to get up the mountain where would all the pressure and tension of getting back to the house on time of come from hmmmmmm? Exactly it would be a pointless having a limit on the amount of time you could spend out if you could get back at the click of a button. So MNNMM! I dont wanna be on the team anyway :P:P:P:P:P:P

You would have to be at the bottom of the cliff and cast the spell b4 you could actually get back up ;D :P

you have to mix the ingredients together each time ;)

OK PEOPLE, enough talk of the mountain path! we have many other issues to cover. There will be NO mountain path, because I said so, and I'm the self-appointed dictator... sorry, director of this project :suffer:

So, next subject. Things & events in KQ3+ should be better connected - there should be an underlying plot like in KQ6. My idea goes something like this - Medusa's fortress isn't her own, it's actually belongs to the oracle, whom she turned into stone. You need to unpetrify the oracle before you can talk to him, and then he either causes a storm or gives you an ingredient for the brew storm spell. That storm forces the pirate ship to dock at the peir. Ok, the last part sounded much better in my head, but you get my drift :P

No, no, no...the pirates work with Mananan!  They raid ships, share the wealth with Mananan...who in turn has cast protection spells on their ship.  They somehow learn (I'm working on the details here) that Gwydion turned Mananan into a cat and therefore the protection spells are no longer in effect...
So when he shows up on the docks looking for a way out of Llewdor, they kidnap him in hopes of forcing *him* to cast protection spells on the ship.  That's how the pirates tie in!

I LIKE the idea of connecting the Medusa to the Oracle though.  Did she have a specific reason for turning the Oracle to stone though?

Ooo, I like Storm's idea. Hmm...oh! And Medusa works for Mannanan, who had her turn the Oracle to stone so that Gwydion wouldn't find out who he really was.

Hm, dunno bout the pirates though. I mean, what good does Mannanan have for pirates? He can transport anywhere he wants instantaneously, if he can steal babies, he can steal money if he needs it, and the pirates, well...they might want his protection, but I don't know that he'd bother giving it.

Hmm, true Storm. Oy. See what we plot writers go through folks! ;)

Okay, so perhaps Medusa just didn't like the Oracle of Llewdor because of the usual good guy-bad guy bit, and the fact the Oracle was well-liked and people *wanted* to see her, where as no one like Medusa and no one wanted to see her. So she was jealous, and turned the Oracle to stone. And that took care of any worries Mannanan might've had about the Oracle and I'm sure he was happy to let those two fight it out and he could continue doing his evil wizard bit on top of the mountain.

It'd be interesting to involve the other black cat more, perhaps even as an ally. There has always been the suspicion that the black cat was an old enemy whom Mannanan turned into a cat just like he was turned into one eventually; maybe once Gwydion gets the animal speech-dough in his ears, he could work out some arrangements with the cat to get out of there! And then Gwydion has a friend and traveling companion. :)

Quote from: KatieHal on May 13, 2004, 08:31:12 AMOkay, so perhaps Medusa just didn't like the Oracle of Llewdor because of the usual good guy-bad guy bit, and the fact the Oracle was well-liked and people *wanted* to see her, where as no one like Medusa and no one wanted to see her. So she was jealous, and turned the Oracle to stone. And that took care of any worries Mannanan might've had about the Oracle and I'm sure he was happy to let those two fight it out and he could continue doing his evil wizard bit on top of the mountain.

IIRC, the KQ3 oracle was male ;)
Medusa doesn't need a big reason to petrify people... there's really no need for any personal animosity between her and the oracle. She might as well be just a squatter who happened to like the oracle's fortress, and turn the people who come to see the oracle into stone 8)

As for the oracle himself - I suggest we make him more like the Oracle of Delphi, a more neutral guy who speaks in confusing riddles (and rhymes. Rhymes are fun)  ;)

Quote from: KatieHal on May 13, 2004, 08:31:12 AMIt'd be interesting to involve the other black cat more, perhaps even as an ally. There has always been the suspicion that the black cat was an old enemy whom Mannanan turned into a cat just like he was turned into one eventually; maybe once Gwydion gets the animal speech-dough in his ears, he could work out some arrangements with the cat to get out of there! And then Gwydion has a friend and traveling companion. :)

I was just playing KQ3 and thought of the same thing! ;D
They could start out and enemies and become allies... the cat may be evil and just help Gwydion because he wants Manannan defeated as well. As for the identity of the cat - does anyone have any ideas?  ;)

I like making the Oracle more cryptic.  I didn't like how the *whole* plot was just, poof, given away.

A lot of people have said that the cat in Ooga Booga was the same one from Mananan's House....could we work off of that?  That cat wasn't evil though. :-\  I dunno, I'm about to go to bed so thinking isn't a strong suit....

It was male? Very well, male. Well, it was just a backstory "in case someone asks." Believe me, you need that kind of stuff, because there is always someone who will ask.

Yes, a more cryptic Oracle so it's no so easy to find out would be good. Maybe you don't know right up until the revealing of the birthmark! (which, IMO, has to be shown;) ).

Hmmm....seems a long way for a cat to go on its own. Geographically, who knows how far it might be between Ooga Booga and Llewdor! Nah, I say this is a different cat. That one's personality was far too different to be the same one, I think.

The cat in KQ7 wasn't actually *evil*, was it?

And I believe I supplied some MIDI's to the KQ4 VGA project a while back, nice people.

KQ3 is my number one for a remake. Great idea, but just awful in AGI. I believe AGDI, or whatever they are today, were seriously thinking about KQ3VGA next. But can't pencil anything in these days, I guess.

- Spike

No, the KQ7 cat was quite nice!

The KQ3 cat was not nearly as pleasant ; but my theory is once Gwydion could talk to it, the cat and he might find they have much in common, what with the evil wizard running the house. Personally, I always suspected the cat was once human.

Quote from: KatieHal on May 14, 2004, 01:02:08 PMPersonally, I always suspected the cat was once human.

We'll have to make it that way, if we intend to have him join forces with Gwydion... what motivation would he have to go against Manannan if he was just a cat? ;)

Spite. :)

Look at it this way... if Mannanan was that much of a jerk to his slaves, how would he treat his cats? ;P

Peace & Luv, Liz

Villians often treat their pets with respect.. Malicia with her poodle (or whatever it is), for example.

- Spike

::nods:: And Dr. Evil with Mr. Bigglesworth.

However, if said pet were a transformed former enemy....well, I can imagine that wouldn't go as well!

Blofeld was never horrible towards his cat ;)

Although evil ppl are horrible to everyone for some reason they are never horrible to their pets :S, kinda weird really :-\

Quote from: KatieHal on May 17, 2004, 02:13:00 PM
Spite. :)

Sure, we could go with spite... but an actual motive might be more interesting ;)

Villians ARE always nice to their pets - sometimes the pet is the only one the villian can trust not to double-cross or judge them for their evil deeds :P

Quote from: KatieHal on May 20, 2004, 11:03:36 AMHowever, if said pet were a transformed former enemy....well, I can imagine that wouldn't go as well!

We could solve that by saying the cat fooled Manannan into believing he's an ordinary cat now, and doesn't remember anything of his previous life. That still leaves the question, how did Manannan turn him into a cat? did he use the same cat cookie Gwydion used on him? if so, there's little reason for the cat to assist Gwydion - the spell is irreversible anyways, so the cat would be giving up a comfortable home just so he could get revenge on Manannan :S

Hmmm...I like that idea, Katie!  Unfortunately, wouldn't that mean that Mananan's cat would want Gwydion to get some of Mananan's blood or hair to reverse the spell?  Perhaps we could make that a part of this...give Mordack a reason to think Alex does know how to reverse the spell, he did it before.

Also, I'd like there to be some kind of difference between Mananan and the other cat.  You can't tell which is which in KQ3.  It bugs me...

Storm, what I meant was that because the caster has to use, say, their own blood or whatever in the creation and casting of the spell, only that person can un-cast the spell. So Mannanan and Mordack would need Alex to reverse the spell on Mannanan.

Hmm...granted, Alex still wouldn't necessarily know HOW to reverse the spell. He only read the cookie spell to begin with, and never looked to see if there was a reversal.

Which is why they can't reverse the spell on the original cat in the house. Mannanan would never WANT to. Though Mannanan being a more powerful wizard, it's also possible he just snapped his fingers and turned the other guy into a cat.

Quote from: KatieHal on May 25, 2004, 08:24:20 AM
Storm, what I meant was that because the caster has to use, say, their own blood or whatever in the creation and casting of the spell, only that person can un-cast the spell. So Mannanan and Mordack would need Alex to reverse the spell on Mannanan.

I know ;D that's why I said:

Quote from: Storm on May 24, 2004, 03:37:21 PMKatie's idea solves the whole "why does a spell cast by a cookie should be undone by the original caster" angle.

Quote from: KatieHal on May 25, 2004, 08:24:20 AMHmm...granted, Alex still wouldn't necessarily know HOW to reverse the spell. He only read the cookie spell to begin with, and never looked to see if there was a reversal.

That would be a bit careless on Alex's side... what if the reversal was something as simple as "jump 3 times"? Anyways, we could omit the "victim will remain a cat FORVER!" bit from the book and instead put in "Reversal instructions: this spell can only be undone by the original caster..." and have the rest of the page torn off ;-D

That would be a nice wink in KQ5's direction... But still wouldn't explain why Mordack and Manannan would know the spell can only be undone by the original caster but wouldn't know HOW, and think that Alex does know :-[

Now, the alternate explanation (though more far-fetched) is:

A. There are 2 different cat spells -
   1. The cat cookie Alex uses on Manannan, which is
       IRREVERSABLE.
   2. The spell Manannan used on his cat, which can be
       undone only by the original caster.

B. To suppot this theory, Manannan never read the
   spellbook Alex used, it was hidden/locked
   somewhere.

C. Manannan and Mordack mistakingly believe Alex
   used the 2nd spell (the one Manannan used),
   therefore they think Alex is lying when he says he
   doesn't know how to reverse it.

D. If we decide to break the spell on Manannan's cat, it
   might be difficult since we'll need Manannan to do it
   willingly. So, we could either trick him into doing it
   somehow... or include another condition to the 2nd
   spell (preferably, a condition Manannan himself
   doesn't know about) - "the spell can only be undone
   by the original caster... or if the original caster
   himself turns into a cat".


I really think we should decide which explanation we stick with at this point, as it would effect the rest of the plot. I'm having a hard time choosing myself... maybe we should have people vote about it? 8)

I'm liking the idea of the two seperate spells...that fits *really* well.

And there's really not a need to undo the cat spell on Mananan's enemy, it would just be a nice gesture.

Ahh, I see your methods to the madness now, Storm. Two spells would seem do-able, if the book Alex is hidden/one Mannanan never used or had.

For whatever reason, I'm a fan of the other cat staying a cat. It just seems to work better for having him hang with Alex for longer. Once they turn human, they usually seem to hightail it home, or at least, away. (See KQ4's Frog Prince, for example)

Now, what about the town? What should be added there? More shops, more story-line involvement, etc?

Will the waitress still be busty? ;B

LOL, of course Bushie. What kind of barwench would she be if she were not, of course, a lusty, busty wench? Silly questions  :suffer:

Yay! XB

Quote from: KatieHal on May 25, 2004, 02:26:18 PMFor whatever reason, I'm a fan of the other cat staying a cat. It just seems to work better for having him hang with Alex for longer. Once they turn human, they usually seem to hightail it home, or at least, away. (See KQ4's Frog Prince, for example)

You mean, adding the cat as a companion like Cedric in KQ5 (or the companions in KQ9)? While I like the idea of a reluctant, semi-evil, only-doing-it-for-my-own-agenda companion, it has many points we'll need to work out:

1. How does Alex manage to convince the cat to join him? is it simply a matter of talking to him?
2. What does the cat help him with? he must help him more than once to be a worthwhile companion.
3. Even if the cat doesn't turn human once Manannan is defeated, why would he stay with Alex after that?
4. What happens to the cat in the end? Alex can't take him home, that's for sure ;B

BTW Katie, if you like the cat to stay with Alex longer we could make the part of the game before defeating Manannan longer. I mean, take out the mountain path and the complicated spell-making, and that part would be pretty short once you know what to do :-\

Quote from: KatieHal on May 25, 2004, 02:26:18 PM
Now, what about the town? What should be added there? More shops, more story-line involvement, etc?

Sure! though I don't know which shops can be added... a fish-monger, maybe?
I did think about the town in another connotation. There's the unresolved issue of who raised Alex - after all, he didn't start serving Manannan when he was only one year old. He must have had someone take care of him until he was old enough to work, even if he doesn't remember it. Maybe there was woman from the town who raised him, and was later killed by Manannan? we could always say that the trauma of seeing her being killed made him forget all about that.

I know!

Mannannan did kidnap Alex when he was a kid, but surely he had a maid to take care of diapers and such. Perhaps the *maid* was turned into a cat so she wouldn't blab anything.

It would certainly explain why the cat tries to trip Alex on those dangerous stairs. ;) Because of all those stinky diapers she had to take care of. ;)

Quote from: Oldbushie on May 26, 2004, 08:50:01 PMIt would certainly explain why the cat tries to trip Alex on those dangerous stairs. ;) Because of all those stinky diapers she had to take care of. ;)

Sure, that could work... except it would be saying something very disturbing about nannies everywhere :P

I must say I'm encouraged by the ideas discussed here.. you gals sure have a feel for the KQ series. This man's definitely impressed! The KQ3 ideas are excellent.

Personally, I believe Manannan's cat should become human- if nothing else, just a great moment the fans can 'take in', and make it vital to Alex's gameplay.

- Spike

Maybe Mannannan turned her into a cat-lady at night, I dunno...  ::)

Hey, Spikey...I'm not a lady. Are you saying I haven't impressed you? :P

I've had some ideas.  First of all, I think that the whole game was too short to begin with originally, so I definitely support the idea of lengthening the pre-Manancat part of the game.  That would also give us opportunity to further develop the other cat.
I'm not so sure about this maid idea.  I'm sure he had one, but I bet they were just kidnapped peasant girls who Mananan killed when they were no loner useful.  That makes sense, doesn't it?

The town gives me trouble.  It clearly *must* be expanded...a town, especially not a port town, cannot have only two buildings.  It makes no sense and leaves the player wanting more.  I mean, at least make the effort of drawing in more buildings (in the foreground).  But, since we also need to expand on the bandits plot...we could give the town a sheriff.  Perhaps he was injured trying to arrest the bandits, managed to return to town, but now needs help?
And, we could put someone in the town who's lonely and needs a companion...the cat could be pawned off on this person to tie up that loose end.
As for adding other shops....that I'm kind of stuck on.  That's the problem with having a General Store...they sell pretty much everything.

Maybe a House of Ill Repute? ;)

You mean a brothel??  And what would we do in there? ;-D

I mean, that would contribute to the plot....

Brothel? Hum, might take the game off beyond the PG sort of rating that you may or may not be shooting for ;)

So what else could be in the town, perhaps some sort of industry, a blacksmith or something?  

Wait, I got it!

Mannanan can't exactly be the most benevolent town-ruling wizard, can he? ;P Maybe the brothel is really a front for an Underground Citizens' Rebellion Society. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz

*covers Q's ears*

*shoots sharp looks to everyone around*

Shhhh!  Guys, ya'll have to remember that we have young ones around!  They shouldn't be hearing anything about *gasp* brothels!

:P

Cat

Like I was saying a blacksmith or perhaps some some sort of carpenter ...somebody who could make something that would help Alex on his quest. :)  

Lol, yeah, that cat in KQ7 is something else entirely. And... I guess I'll have to let go of the brothel idea... ;)

Perhaps a primitive arcade?

If somone made a KQ3+, I'd want them to fix the cliff's walkway. It didn't bother me the first few times, but I don't want to have to go thru that again.
\
/
\
/
\
/
\
/
Splat!
*music plays*

Maybe just the first couple times, then it could be automatic. ;)

Sounds good to me. Only one problem left...

for somone to make the game.  :(

Perhaps the person-turned-cat is being held hostage so that they comply? And maybe the cat really just tries to trip the wizard but doesn't expect Alexander coming down those stairs. ;)

Ooo! I like that. The cat is a member of the family held hostage or something like that to make them comply, should they think about trying to back out of the deal! Nice one Bushie!  ;)

I'm male myself, sorry guys out there. I post too late on this forum. :)

Katie: I assume you're unsubtly trying to tell us you or someone you now is making KQ3VGA? Care to share?

- Spike

Haha, in all honesty, no one that I know of, Spike. I think it'd be awesome if they were and it tempts me, but I've got enough game-making to occupy my time already. :) Of course, if someone else were to start it..well, I might think of joining up, but again, I don't know of anyone who is.

Well, once KQ9 is finished, it might scare potential KQ3+ makers away  :(
Then they'd have a tough act to follow.

I've never played KQ1/2+, but I will, as soon as I find a link that lasts longer than a couple of days.

The AGDI forums have a topic with some interesting plot ideas for a KQ3 remake, I'll see if I can find a link in a moment....
Anyhow, Cat, don't cover my ears, I said the word to start with. :P I like the idea of a blacksmith in the town.  But what could the blacksmith do for Alex, and visa-versa?
As for the cat, I would like to stick with having it be one of Mananan's rivals.  It's so much less problematic that way. :) Anyhow, but that doesn't answer what this family could be threatened with, so here's a suggestion:
-Blackmail.  Maybe they have a deep dark secret that they don't want people to know.  Or, better yet, maybe Mananan has them convinced that they have a deep dark secret that they actually don't have. (Maybe he's convinced them all that their family is somehow responsible for some evil deed that was once committed in Llewdor?)
-Blackmail is kind of weak.  Instead, how about this: they're gypsies that have been persecuted in other lands.  Mananan allows them to stay in Llewdor, provided they raise his future slaves.

Yeah, both of those were kinda weak after all.  Okay, you guys can take that and run, while I go link-hunting.

I got it!!  The thread ishere (http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8028&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)!  Go me! ;D

Hmm, it's been a while since I played it, so I don't really recall that gem. But one item for five different things IS a bit much.

That's not unlike my mentioning to Cesar last night about how the hammer & chisel in KQ7 was the multi-purpose item to have! How many different things did that get used for? A ton! Makes me think I oughta get my own set to carry around, you know, just in case I get locked into a room, or need to chisel a golden grape off of something, or obtain a crystal dragon scale, or....  XD

I also don't agree with stealing from the bears--Gwydion may have been raised by an evil wizard (notice the "may have"), but he ought to still have good morals!  He should do something for the bears, at least to get the thimble or the porridge (not necessarily both though).

Quote from: Louisiana Night on June 03, 2004, 09:45:44 PM
Well, once KQ9 is finished, it might scare potential KQ3+ makers away  :(
Then they'd have a tough act to follow.

Why would you think that?  ??? KQ3 would happen before KQ9 so they wouldn't need to follow ours (plot-wise, that is).  Plus, since ours isn't officially in the KQ series, they are free to disregard our plotline entirely.  ;D

Yeah, LN's statement is more true regarding KQ2+ - a though act to follow, especially because of the different plotline ;)

But there's already a guy making it, isn't there? on that thread in the AGDI forum 8)

yeah, ithink storm's right...but ithink he's working alone. that means a long wait. :S

It doesn't mean he'll even complete the game... I can recall at least 2 other KQ3 projects, both now "postponed till further notice" (read: cancelled) :(

Like the other KQ9 projects.

QuoteWell, once KQ9 is finished, it might scare potential KQ3+ makers away  
Then they'd have a tough act to follow.

I was talking about the quality level, and 3D graphics.

so now why dont we talk about KQ4+ !!!

Quote from: Louisiana Night on June 15, 2004, 08:37:28 PM
Like the other KQ9 projects.

The other KQ9 project is still active, just not updated... at least I haven't heard Akril say otherwise 8)

Quote from: Louisiana Night on June 15, 2004, 08:37:28 PM

QuoteWell, once KQ9 is finished, it might scare potential KQ3+ makers away  
Then they'd have a tough act to follow.

I was talking about the quality level, and 3D graphics.

IMHO, no KQ3 remake would be aiming at the KQ9's standards. If there's a remake, it would probably be done with AGS and look like SCIVGA. I don't think anyone would make the effort to produce a game of KQ9's caliber over a remake. Besides, it would look a bit strange to have KQ3's remake looking "more advanced" than KQ5 & 6 ;)

Quote from: racx_00 on June 16, 2004, 06:54:07 AM
so now why dont we talk about KQ4+ !!!

Because we haven't even STARTED talking about KQ3+ yet!! there is so much more that needs to be discussed...
We could start a seperate KQ4+ thread though :)

/me goes off to make one :D

QuoteThe other KQ9 project is still active, just not updated...

You could say that. The situation is made a little clearer on the main page.


Akril