POStudios Forum

The Lounge => Gaming Talk => Topic started by: stika on April 23, 2013, 01:19:41 PM

Title: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 23, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
Yes, yes THIS argument, hopefully no one will try to murder anyone :P

So, which one was the best Adventure game company of its time? Which one had the better games?  And why?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 23, 2013, 01:40:47 PM
They both had good games and they both had bad games. They both had games with clever puzzles and they both had games with retarded puzzles. They were both good for their time, and they are both gone now. Not much else to say, other than I hate the whole "choose one or the other" mentality.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 23, 2013, 02:01:19 PM
B-b-but YOU MUST CHOOSE! How else will we make this pointless debate not seem pointless? :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on April 23, 2013, 03:22:45 PM
Sierra. Better games, better gameplay style, better graphics, and more to choose from.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 23, 2013, 03:24:41 PM
See? much better, now we can start mud-slinging each other!  :rofl:

In all seriousness though, I prefer Lucas Arts, I like the simplicity, humor and not-dying :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 23, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
It's a simple fact that Lucasarts' games were nearly always better made, more polished, and less buggy than Sierra games.  Pretty much every adventure game they put out can be considered an absolute classic.  Sierra's record is a lot spottier.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 23, 2013, 05:19:14 PM
Though to be fair, Grim Fandango was pretttttty rough
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on April 23, 2013, 05:20:56 PM
Sierra, definitely. Space Quest, King's Quest, Quest for Glory,... :D

I do like the Monkey Island games a lot, though - at least the first two. I haven't played three or four.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 23, 2013, 05:32:20 PM
Three's pretty fun.

As for four... meh you're not missing much
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 23, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
I've seen a walkthrough of four on Youtube, and to me, it's just as funny as the rest of 'em. Same with Tales.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 23, 2013, 06:16:06 PM
The biggest issue people have with Monkey Island 4 can be summed up in two words: Monkey Kombat.

Also, Monkey Island 4, like most other adventure games at the time, had ugly 3D animation and lousy controls, so there's that.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 23, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
Eh, I thought it was cute.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 23, 2013, 07:15:23 PM
Maybe you should make judgments from actually playing the game.  ;)
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on April 23, 2013, 07:20:12 PM
Maybe you should make judgments from actually playing the game.  ;)
...says the guy who judged KQ7 from a Let's Play. ;)
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 23, 2013, 07:53:59 PM
Ooh, buuurn!  :rofl:

Then again, burn on me too. A lot of the knowledge I get (especially my Sierra Lore) comes from Let's Plays, Walkthroughs, Internet Reviews and Retrospectives. Some of those games (such as King's Quest and Quest for Glory) I'd never even heard of up until then, and I became interested in learning more.

Speaking of Let's Plays, which one were you following exactly Lamb?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on April 23, 2013, 07:58:00 PM
I can't choose.  I love 'em both.  And I live in world where I can own and play both.  So I don't need to choose.  If someone made me choose, I'd choose neither and live without any of them.  Cause I need 'em both.  ALL OR NOTHING, BABY.


Bt
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 23, 2013, 08:05:51 PM
Maybe you should make judgments from actually playing the game.  ;)
...says the guy who judged KQ7 from a Let's Play. ;)

Ha...Of course I was kidding.  I would never actually watch an LP instead of playing the game.  And I certainly wouldn't make judgments about its gameplay based on that.  I value having actual experiences in life, rather than watching other people do it on the internet.  KQ7, I played when it was brand new on Windows 3.1.  When it was exciting and fresh AND STILL SUCKED MY NOT-YET-HAIRY NUTS.

Boy, did I have an awkward puberty.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 23, 2013, 08:14:48 PM
Well, nevermind my last question then.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 23, 2013, 08:18:59 PM
Well, nevermind my last question then.

Heh...I'm just messing around with you.  I haven't seen many Let's Plays of anything that have ever grabbed me.  Usually I find people's nerdy commentary to be utterly grating.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on April 24, 2013, 12:04:18 AM
While Sierra has made a couple great games, lucasarts simply put out more high quality games.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 24, 2013, 04:54:51 AM
I'm surprised there hasn't been more mud slinging, son, I am disappoint! ((just joking))

As for for monkey island 4, I don't know, I like the whole "Tourists are visiting the pirate islands" at first, but then the joke got really old
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: darthkiwi on April 25, 2013, 07:31:04 AM
MI4 was the first MI game I played, and I thought it was great. So, my opinion on it is probably rose-tinted. But, I did have a blast playing it, and I think that most of the stuff that happens before the final act (when you get Monkey Kombat and that weird... robot... thing... which I won't spoil...) is actually pretty funny.

For me, the Lucasarts design philosophy is so much better formulated. By ensuring there were no dead ends and players couldn't die, they allowed their players to explore, immerse themselves in the world and not be too anxious about having missed something.

Sierra, on the other hand, loved having dead-ends, sudden deaths and stuff that could be considered "unfair". I don't think this philosophy is worse than Lucasarts', though! The effect you got was very different, but still valid: instead of experiencing the game as an immersive story, you experienced the game as a complex system of puzzles that had to be solved over multiple playthroughs (because you'd have to restart to avoid dead-ends). Put simply, in a Sierra game, the "save game" feature becomes part of the gameplay.

My problem with that is that Sierra games weren't very clever about this. Rather than use this philosophy to make games in a setting that benefits from this philosophy, maybe making a science fiction game about parallel universes, where the save game feature is part of the lore because you have a time machine/universe hopping machine and are able to manipulate time/reality to solve these puzzles, they used it to make games about stereotypical characters in stereotypical settings. (Fantasy mashups ala KQ or Mixed up Mother Goose, generic scifi jokes in SQ, the Arthurian archetype stuff in Conquests of the Longbow.) I enjoyed these games (especially Longbow) but I think I enjoyed them in spite of Sierra's design philosophy.

And it's not coincidence that my favourite Sierra games, the GK games, had no dead-ends (I think) and fewer arbitrary deaths. In other words, they aligned closer to Lucasarts' philosophy.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 25, 2013, 12:42:23 PM
Actually, there IS at least one dead end in GK1 that I know of: Put the tracker in the coffin at the museum... but don't leave a message to Dr.John on Marie Laveau's tomb. Therefore, when you go to the bayou, the tracker blip doesn't come up on the radar which means that Dr. John didn't take it with him.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on April 25, 2013, 02:06:24 PM
It's kinda sad that Sierra is losing against LucasArts on a forum that's technically a Sierra fan forum. Combined with nearly 100,000 people watching Retsupurae basically gutting KQV and KQVI, it's depressing. Thanks to Retsupurae, thousands of people will think the KQ series was utter crap on par with Dark Seed without ever having played it.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 25, 2013, 02:49:43 PM
Well...the KQ series IS crap. :suffer: But we all had fun playing (some of) it, and that's what matters.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 25, 2013, 03:32:15 PM
It's kinda sad that Sierra is losing against LucasArts on a forum that's technically a Sierra fan forum. Combined with nearly 100,000 people watching Retsupurae basically gutting KQV and KQVI, it's depressing. Thanks to Retsupurae, thousands of people will think the KQ series was utter crap on par with Dark Seed without ever having played it.
Who's Retsupurae? Also, I think people are most likely to remember Pawdugan's videos
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on April 25, 2013, 03:54:37 PM
Hahah, who gives a Rat's ass what someone says about King's Quest on YouTube?  Really.  Heh.



Bt
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 25, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
Hahah, who gives a Rat's ass what someone says about King's Quest on YouTube?  Really.  Heh.



Bt

f*** YOU, STEVE.  I need my opinions validated CONSTANTLY or I will sink into a bottomless pit of depression!!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 25, 2013, 03:58:08 PM
Here, Stika, this will explain everything...*head explodes*

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae)

Retsupurae is the only reason anybody knows about Mike Dawson, which means that I'll give them a pass on their King's Quest criticisms.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on April 25, 2013, 04:01:07 PM
It's more that thousands of people are getting their opinions on a classic series from dumbed down satire...Which is sad. Some do let stuff on youtube and other places effect their opinions. I am of the opinion that there are very few fantasy computer games on par with KQ--including 7 and 8-- and very few adventure games on per with Sierra's best.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on April 25, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Again, I have no idea who you are talking about. King's Quest is cute and all, but Lucasarts simply made much smarter games.

EDIT: Also paw is dragging his feet with Trial by Fire.  The saga of Sneakyfeet, official S.L.U.T., must continue!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: KatieHal on April 25, 2013, 08:39:24 PM
Oh man, you're right! I forgot all about Sneakyfeet.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 25, 2013, 08:53:41 PM
Yes! Where is he?!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on April 26, 2013, 05:38:34 AM
Nothing is above satire.  Sacred Cows make especially good targets.  Again, I say, I don't care that thousands of people only know KQ from something like Retsuprae.  You know, many of them just don't have the same golden experience in the past with such games as we did - and they never will.  That's fine - KQ has it's fans, and they are vast.  Whining about people taking the piss out of something is just wasted time.


Bt
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: KatieHal on April 26, 2013, 07:44:26 AM
Yeah, you really can't lament people having different opinions or experiences from you so much--it'll drive you nuts with frustration. Not everyone's going to love things the way you do, and really, there are a LOT of people in the world who DO love KQ, so you certainly aren't alone in that.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 26, 2013, 07:24:53 PM
Hahah, who gives a Rat's ass what someone says about King's Quest on YouTube?  Really.  Heh.



Bt

considering how webshows like Screwattack, Classic Game room and others have impacted Ebay prices? I'd say a lot of people do

Here, Stika, this will explain everything...*head explodes*

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae)

Retsupurae is the only reason anybody knows about Mike Dawson, which means that I'll give them a pass on their King's Quest criticisms.

actually I can think of another reason why people might know who Mike Dawson is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZIxxCOC43o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJIO6JREXDU
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 26, 2013, 08:29:35 PM

Here, Stika, this will explain everything...*head explodes*

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/Retsupurae?from=Main.Retsupurae)

Retsupurae is the only reason anybody knows about Mike Dawson, which means that I'll give them a pass on their King's Quest criticisms.

actually I can think of another reason why people might know who Mike Dawson is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZIxxCOC43o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJIO6JREXDU

Well sure, but you have to watch Retsupurae's commentary on the entire game walkthrough to appreciate how truly idiotic Darkseed 2 is. And get all of the inside jokes.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 29, 2013, 12:51:29 PM

Well sure, but you have to watch Retsupurae's commentary on the entire game walkthrough to appreciate how truly idiotic Darkseed 2 is. And get all of the inside jokes.

I've only actually played the first Darkseed so I can't comment on the sequel.

The first one is a little below average imo
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 29, 2013, 06:36:16 PM
When you've got the time, check out this commentary for a Darkseed 2 longplay. It's lengthy--all 5 of the videos in this series come out at around 7 1/2 hours--but it's one of the funniest damn things I've ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca6PZF660i4
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 29, 2013, 06:59:05 PM
My God.  It's almost as bad as Gabriel Knight 2.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on April 29, 2013, 09:28:49 PM
Wow... it's... that's... I'm at a loss for words. :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on April 29, 2013, 11:24:05 PM
Wow... it's... that's... I'm at a loss for words. :P

Not until you've seen THIS, you aren't!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Io7WN9oAAE
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on April 30, 2013, 07:27:38 AM
Wow. That's... special. At least they're instantly recognizable. It's amusing how they keep putting their "suckers" back in their mouths between questions. XD
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on April 30, 2013, 09:59:02 AM
saw the first video, that's hilarious :rofl:

I'll check out the others when I have time :)
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on April 30, 2013, 11:29:03 AM
My God.  It's almost as bad as Gabriel Knight 2.

You say that now but did that video include this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp783bAweQc

I'll take a FMV werewolf over that any day.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on April 30, 2013, 03:37:00 PM
Are you kidding? The head explosion is the best part of the game! Or at least, it elicits the best reaction from people.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 01, 2013, 10:05:30 AM
so I'm on the second Darkseed video... sorry but Darkseed 2 is hilariously bad, GK 2 doesn't get anywhere near that :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on May 01, 2013, 07:25:18 PM
I'm pretty sure Lamb just said that to be contrary, since Gabriel Knight 2 is Cesar's favorite computer game.

Also, words of wisdom from Mike Dawson:

"I'd better not touch this crate. I might get a splinter, or a spider bite."

"Fine! Just walk away! I hope the Boogeyman gets you!"

"This clown doesn't look very funny..."

He gets a few more zingers later on.

Be aware that the longplayer is woefully inept at the game and the videos really drag on for a long time while he putzes around. Of course, this could be another source of humor...
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on May 01, 2013, 08:39:40 PM
I do know, that in all honesty, Lamb does not like Gabriel Knight 2.  He is being honest about that!


Bt
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 01, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
I do know, that in all honesty, Lamb does not like Gabriel Knight 2.  He is being honest about that!


Bt

I took a lumpy brown s*** tonight that I had more fun with than Gabriel Knight 2.  f*** that game.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 04:49:38 AM
but was it in real time FMV? mmmm? MMMMMM? Was it?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on May 02, 2013, 10:12:35 AM
How do you REALLY feel about it, BT? :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
yeah, he hasn't expressed it clearly :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on May 02, 2013, 10:55:36 AM
How do you REALLY feel about it, BT? :P

Do you mean me or Lamb?  I think Lambo expressed himself quite graphically!


Bt

Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on May 02, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
I loved GK1, and while it took a bit, GK2 grew on me as well. GK3... eh, the plot didn't seem to really start until the murders of the Prince's men. I wouldn't call it awful, but it certainly wasn't as good as the first one.

Now Ultima IX: Ascension on the other hand...
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
I loved GK1, and while it took a bit, GK2 grew on me as well. GK3... eh, the plot didn't seem to really start until the murders of the Prince's men. I wouldn't call it awful, but it certainly wasn't as good as the first one.

Now Ultima IX: Ascension on the other hand...
What if I told you Ultima IX: Ascencion is actually not that bad a game? :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on May 02, 2013, 11:49:05 AM
How do you REALLY feel about it, BT? :P

Do you mean me or Lamb?  I think Lambo expressed himself quite graphically!


Bt
Sorry - I misread. I should have known - that sounds much more like something that Lamb would say than something you would say. :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 02, 2013, 12:05:25 PM
GK1 looks and feels great, and the talent (or whatever you attribute to Tim Curry) of the actors shines through.

GK2 had some solid writing which saves it for me, but ughhhhh those werewolves, how am I supposed to take those seriously?

GK3 fails in basically every way, even Tim Curry isn't chewing scenery with his typical enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 12:14:58 PM
I think we can all agree that they should have given Tim Curry a role more similar to this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUhuPn8_d0Q
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 02, 2013, 02:23:42 PM
Gabriel Knight 2 is the gameplay equivalent of individually plucking every single hair on one's entire body.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 02:30:52 PM
So you're saying playing Gabriel Knight 2 makes me more attractive to the opposite gender? :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: KatieHal on May 02, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
I seem to recall you posting that you were actually enjoying yourself playing that game while you were playing it, Lamb, and that you were surprised by that, but then you also didn't finish it.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 02, 2013, 03:56:35 PM
So you're saying playing Gabriel Knight 2 makes me more attractive to the opposite gender? :P

In the sense that standing next to a hideously ugly person makes you seem more attractive by comparison, yes.  ;)
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on May 02, 2013, 03:57:28 PM
I loved GK1, and while it took a bit, GK2 grew on me as well. GK3... eh, the plot didn't seem to really start until the murders of the Prince's men. I wouldn't call it awful, but it certainly wasn't as good as the first one.

Now Ultima IX: Ascension on the other hand...
What if I told you Ultima IX: Ascencion is actually not that bad a game? :P
Are you serious?! Okay, good graphics (at least I think so anyway), BEAUTIFUL music.

BUT! Horrible voice acting (or at least So Bad It's Good), horribly buggy and crash prone, plot holes up the wazoo (especially if you played the game beforehand!), a stupid main character, and it upsets the cosmic balance!

And it made Spoony go nuts.

...You're just trying to mess with me, aren't you?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 02, 2013, 03:59:26 PM
Gabriel Knight 2 is the gameplay equivalent of individually plucking every single hair on one's entire body.

Wait, you guys don't find that fun?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 02, 2013, 04:00:29 PM
I seem to recall you posting that you were actually enjoying yourself playing that game while you were playing it, Lamb, and that you were surprised by that, but then you also didn't finish it.

That's true.  I found myself getting into it at times.  The story's really not bad.  But the visual design is hideous, and the editing in the FMV sequences, particularly the ones used for general in-game interactions, is atrocious, and really makes the game feel like a chore to play.  The problem was that every time I'd get into it, some terribly edited FMV sequence would suck me right back out again.  And the use of FMV sequences for every little interaction drags out the pace of the game to a nearly unplayable crawl.  I literally fell asleep in my chair at one point, and that's not an exaggeration.  I've never been able to finish it, no.  I made it to the final chapter with Grace in the opera house, but I just can't go back to it.  Every time I try, the horrible graphics and FMV sequences make me physically ill, and I have to stop.

Okay, that last part was an exaggeration.  ;)
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 04:03:11 PM
I loved GK1, and while it took a bit, GK2 grew on me as well. GK3... eh, the plot didn't seem to really start until the murders of the Prince's men. I wouldn't call it awful, but it certainly wasn't as good as the first one.

Now Ultima IX: Ascension on the other hand...
What if I told you Ultima IX: Ascencion is actually not that bad a game? :P
Are you serious?! Okay, good graphics (at least I think so anyway), BEAUTIFUL music.

BUT! Horrible voice acting (or at least So Bad It's Good), horribly buggy and crash prone, plot holes up the wazoo (especially if you played the game beforehand!), a stupid main character, and it upsets the cosmic balance!

And it made Spoony go nuts.

...You're just trying to mess with me, aren't you?

Even though I love Spoony's videos, the man is definitely not someone you should be referencing, especially considering how poorly earlier Ultima games have aged. The game is very buggy, yes, luckily there's plenty of fan patches that fix that, and don't try to tell me fan patches don't count, because no one has any problems using them for Vampire The Masquerade: BLoodlines.

Yep, the story sucks, but then again, that's pretty much a staple of the WRPG genre, of course it's disappointing by Ultima standards, but at least it's the only game in the main series with a decent control scheme and the gameplay itself isn't bad, even if it's preeeeeety unbalanced

EDIT: I'd also go as far as to say the Wing Commander games have aged poorly, but Spoony still treats the series as if they were this amazingly awesome game
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on May 02, 2013, 06:34:50 PM
I loved GK1, and while it took a bit, GK2 grew on me as well. GK3... eh, the plot didn't seem to really start until the murders of the Prince's men. I wouldn't call it awful, but it certainly wasn't as good as the first one.

Now Ultima IX: Ascension on the other hand...
What if I told you Ultima IX: Ascencion is actually not that bad a game? :P
Are you serious?! Okay, good graphics (at least I think so anyway), BEAUTIFUL music.

BUT! Horrible voice acting (or at least So Bad It's Good), horribly buggy and crash prone, plot holes up the wazoo (especially if you played the game beforehand!), a stupid main character, and it upsets the cosmic balance!

And it made Spoony go nuts.

...You're just trying to mess with me, aren't you?

I'm not gonna lie, GrahamRocks...a lot of your comments rub me the wrong way.

It seems like the only reason you say some of the things you do is because someone else said it first. Ultima 9, for instance...I sincerely doubt you've ever played it. I certainly haven't, and based on what I've heard, I'm not going to, because it certainly LOOKS like a bad game. But I base my opinion of it on the fact that multiple sources have told me that it's not worth playing, not just Spoony's review.

How about a little while back when we were talking about supernatural creatures? Someone brought up clowns, and you became adamant that clowns weren't the monsters we make them out to be, and then brought up Boffo from Atop the Fourth Wall. I have a feeling you defended clowns because Atop the Fourth Wall did it first.

Also, you like KQ6 the best and dislike MoE the most, which is what most KQ fans think. I think the fact that I tolerate MoE and barely play KQ6 is part of what makes me unique, and not just a sheep (not that I'm calling you one).

Can you prove that you're not just a follow-the-leader type? Can you tell me what you DON'T agree on with most people? I'm not trying to rip on you or anything, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
come on now, no need to for this, she's free to base her opinions on reviews and shows.

heck it's why we even have critics and the like :)

Edit: Sorry about the Engrish, 'tis almost 3AM here
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: KatieHal on May 02, 2013, 07:49:15 PM

That's true.  I found myself getting into it at times.  The story's really not bad.  But the visual design is hideous, and the editing in the FMV sequences, particularly the ones used for general in-game interactions, is atrocious, and really makes the game feel like a chore to play.  The problem was that every time I'd get into it, some terribly edited FMV sequence would suck me right back out again.  And the use of FMV sequences for every little interaction drags out the pace of the game to a nearly unplayable crawl.  I literally fell asleep in my chair at one point, and that's not an exaggeration.  I've never been able to finish it, no.  I made it to the final chapter with Grace in the opera house, but I just can't go back to it.  Every time I try, the horrible graphics and FMV sequences make me physically ill, and I have to stop.

Okay, that last part was an exaggeration.  ;)

Now this is a good detailed answer! And actually, I can agree, these are a lot of the problems with FMV, especially those early stabs at it. I've been watching Toegoff's current LP of the game and been noticing it even more now than when I played myself how some parts really just drag out.

And you were so close!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Numbers on May 02, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
Sorry about my attitude, I'm just wary of other people right now. And not to tell you my life story, but if I weren't suspicious of other people, I'd be dead.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 02, 2013, 08:40:15 PM
Oh wow, I'm not going to intrude, but I understand :\
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 02, 2013, 09:11:49 PM
I think calling GK2 a "chore" to play sums up the issue nicely. 

Mostly I think it is an excellent story and one you don't see matched very often in the other games.  The antagonist is also quite excellent, I really enjoy the connection Gabe has with the bad guys in 1&2, they still remain villains while being three dimensional and on some level sympathetic.

The actors are all pretty meh though.  Give me voice actors any day.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 02, 2013, 09:35:32 PM
I've said it before, but I would LOVE to see GK2 remade with more traditional hand-painted and animated graphics, and minus the FMV stuff.  Honestly, I'd even be okay with some of the FMV (though the two styles wouldn't mesh at all), just not the FMV for every little action.  The FMV story sequences don't bug me nearly as much.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 02, 2013, 09:41:33 PM
Well at this point it would be cool just to see it's influence in games, which I have yet to encounter. :(
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: darthkiwi on May 03, 2013, 03:33:22 AM
I found myself empathising with the characters more because of the FMV, which I wasn't expecting. I think seeing their facial expressions made something click in my brain. So I'm not willing to write off the FMV entirely: it did improve my experience, if nobody else's. XD

But yes, ugh, the editing! The number of times you get to the end of a conversation topic and there's a five-second clip of Gabe just nodding to himself! The fact that every action has to be really deliberate because oh my God it's being filmed so this is important!

I absolutely LOVE GK2 and I thought the plot and characters were absolutely fantastic, but I can also see why you'd want to kill it with fire every time a poorly-edited FMV sequence comes up (ie. every few seconds).
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 03, 2013, 04:24:00 AM
I still cherish my big box copy of GK2 at the time I had never played anything like it, I was so used to games like Monkey Island, Legend of Kyrandia or Sam and Max, but this seemed to so advanced for its time
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Blackthorne on May 03, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
I've said it before, but I would LOVE to see GK2 remade with more traditional hand-painted and animated graphics, and minus the FMV stuff.  Honestly, I'd even be okay with some of the FMV (though the two styles wouldn't mesh at all), just not the FMV for every little action.  The FMV story sequences don't bug me nearly as much.

This.  I would actually really enjoy seeing GK II remade.


Bt
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on May 03, 2013, 09:28:15 AM
I took a lumpy brown s*** tonight that I had more fun with than Gabriel Knight 2.

I seem to recall you posting that you were actually enjoying yourself playing that game while you were playing it, Lamb, and that you were surprised by that, but then you also didn't finish it.

That's true.  I found myself getting into it at times.
Translation: Lamb sometimes enjoys playing with poop? TMI!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 03, 2013, 09:48:42 AM
Lamb gets into Poop? Oh my!  :rofl:
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 03, 2013, 09:54:36 AM
How did Lamb's admittedly hot sex life appear in two unrelated threads?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Lambonius on May 03, 2013, 10:13:34 AM
How did Lamb's admittedly hot sex life appear in two unrelated threads?

I'm surprised GrahamRocks hasn't said more about it.  I think she has a crush on me.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 03, 2013, 10:30:55 AM
Oh this thread just keeps getting better and better!
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: GrahamRocks! on May 03, 2013, 11:33:12 AM
How did Lamb's admittedly hot sex life appear in two unrelated threads?

I'm surprised GrahamRocks hasn't said more about it.  I think she has a crush on me.

... Even if I did, (which I don't), aren't you married?
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: snabbott on May 03, 2013, 11:39:38 AM
How did Lamb's admittedly hot sex life appear in two unrelated threads?

I'm surprised GrahamRocks hasn't said more about it.  I think she has a crush on me.

... Even if I did, (which I don't), aren't you married?
You do know he's trolling, right? :P
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: Bludshot on May 03, 2013, 11:43:57 AM
How did Lamb's admittedly hot sex life appear in two unrelated threads?

I'm surprised GrahamRocks hasn't said more about it.  I think she has a crush on me.

... Even if I did, (which I don't), aren't you married?

You say that like it matters.
Title: Re: Lucas Arts vs. Sierra
Post by: stika on May 03, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
NO!!!

GrahamRocks is my waifu !!