I haven't seen any other threads on the subject, so I thought I'd address it. Recently there's been this rumor going around that The Odd Gentlemen embezzled money from the Homestuck game kickstarter and used it on the new King's Quest game. The only sources I could really find on the subject are Twitter, Tumblr, and random forums, so I'm not sure how plausible this really is.
This gives me some conflicting feelings... on the one hand I've been looking forward to this King's Quest game for a while, but on the other I wouldn't buy a game made with stolen money. So what are your thoughts? Do these rumors hold any water, or should they just be brushed off as rumors? ???
Oh, snap! If this is true, TOG may very well undergo the scrutiny TellTale Games did when they illegally bumped their Jurassic Park game's score up on Metacritic.
No evidence that it is true. Poor Rock Knight's kinda depressed about it as he's fearing the worst... :(
And that's why I never get my hopes up for anything...because they could be crushed into pulp, just like that.
You already know my stance on this game, so the question is: would you still buy it if this controversy turns out to be true? How do you know there's no evidence it isn't true? Did you dig deep enough that you're sure it's not true and you didn't overlook something? Would you buy it if it's true and the game gets bad reviews? Would you pirate it instead? Would you watch someone else's playthrough of it first to see if you'd be interested and then buy it? Or would you pre-order it knowing full well you might be paying money for a mediocre game developed with illicit funding? Who am I? Where did I come from? Why am I here? Where am I going? Who are the real monsters?
...sorry, I got sidetracked a little there. But the point remains.
I only first heard of this at all the other day, and with the only sources being a few personal blogs (at least one of which is gone now), I'm certainly looking at it with a grain of salt.
The implication seems to be that TOG was paid an amount for X number of months of work on another game, barely did any work on it, and someone (the owners of that game? random people on the internet?) is accusing them of using that money to fund work on KQ instead.
Unless some serious charges are made, I doubt we'll ever know. Tracking that kind of thing IS difficult without looking directly at the company's financial records, which I wouldn't expect anyone to have access to in this case. Activision definitely funded the KQ game as far as everything I've seen/heard implies, so it's unclear why TOG would have needed the other money to put into it. I mean...maybe they just made a crappy demo and that's that. It does happen.
At this point, personally, my biggest stopping point for playing the new KQ is the price tag and not what (currently) appears to be a loosely made accusation.
This game is CLEARLY worse than Mask of Eternity and KQ7 combined.
Quote from: Rock Knight on July 08, 2015, 03:49:29 PM
This game is CLEARLY worse than Mask of Eternity and KQ7 combined.
Not sure if sarcastic or serious.
Sarcasm. Heavy sarcasm.
Yeah... so far the most I've really seen is a few people giving TOG crap on Twitter... I guess we can't really know until TOG address it themselves.
I doubt TOG will address it publicly. They don't want negative attention any more than any other business does.
I'd have to agree with Katie here that the biggest hurdle for me isn't this rumor, but the price. Just seems a bit hefty for this "type" of a game in today's market. I mean Dreamfall Chapters is pretty similar in terms of quality, size, hype, etc. and it's only $30. I'll definitely the new KQ at some point though, regardless of whether this particular rumor turns out to be true. Just because I want to play it, I think it looks and sounds interesting. If it turns out they did something wrong I don't feel like me missing out on a good game has any impact on that.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/b/b3/KQ9titleTCC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150630133748)
Oh my God, old Graham looks like Santa.
BAHAHAHAHA!!! :rofl: I never saw it like that, but that's brilliant! :rofl:
They're probably going for the old King Edward look, knowing full well that this will probably be Graham's final hurrah in the series before Gwen and presumably other grandchildren take over. I hope when Graham inevitably dies, he makes the exact same awkward death animation as King Edward in the AGI KQ1.
While we're talking about it, young Graham looks like a Caucasian Aladdin.
This is the first I had heard of this myself. I guess I'll wait and see if things are true. But honestly...I've kinda been looking forward to this for awhile. I agree the price tag is a bit high. Still, with Amazon as an option, I may use some gift card money to get it that way.
I'll probably just buy all the episodes individually...$10 per episode doesn't seem like too much... But yes, the price tag is a bit disheartening.
The weirdest part is how Old Graham and Young Graham have completely different faces. I mean, the nose alone--I'm pretty no one's nose changes THAT much without plastic surgery! If I didn't already know going in, I wouldn't think that's supposed to be the same character at two different ages.
I'm pretty sure that things droop as you get older. *shrug* Could be the angle too. I wanna honk his big nose! :D
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on July 10, 2015, 08:59:05 AM
I wanna honk his big nose! :D
HONK, the sequel to the DONK meme from KQ2+.
But yeah, those two designs look nothing alike. TSL's Graham is far more accurate to his younger self. That's not to say that we've had much luck with other Old Graham character designs. The old Graham seen during the cloud tests in KQ2+ doesn't look much like young Graham, and of course MoE's Graham doesn't look like anybody in particular, let alone Graham.
As long as his personality is intact, I don't really care if he looks different.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on July 10, 2015, 04:35:14 PM
As long as his personality is intact, I don't really care if he looks different.
Uh, slight problem...TSL Graham is the only one that actually
has a personality. In the first two games, he's a blank slate, and in KQ5, the only aspects of his personality that we really see are his kleptomania ("I'm trapped in a giant bird's nest, about to be eaten--ooh, a locket!"), occasional annoyance at Cedric and smarmy attitude towards the Witch of the Dark Forest. In KQ6 he only appears in the final cutscene and they cut him out of KQ7.
But of course, MoE Graham is by far the best incarnation: "We must begin construction of a new silo!" In a British accent. Yep, that's the Graham we know and love, all right.
The AGDI remakes gave Graham some more personality, and he was actually kind of cool in KQ2+, zapping Sharkees with his trident, slaying werewolves, outsmarting the dwarf, defeating Hagatha the way he knew how, and beating Morgeilen in a fair fight. It's actually kind of sad when we next see him in KQ3 Redux, a broken shell of who he once was.
TSL Graham for me is the definitive Graham: humble, noble, being able to put the Winged Ones in their place, surviving the initially hostile shape-shifting Morrigan, vowing to keep Valanice safe no matter the cost, relating to Cassima and Edgar, neither of which he knows very well, quick to pick up on how to use the magic amulet--especially since his life depended on knowing how it worked--and generally proving that, even in his old age, he's still got it.
For me, continuing the KQ games the way TOG is doing means Graham and Valanice will eventually have to kick the bucket to make way for the new heroes, which is just depressing. And Alexander and Rosella are going to be much older too, which limits their potential. Then again, I don't like Alexander and I
really don't like what Rosella ended up being like later on, so...
But what it all comes down to is...
what about Connor?! Clearly,
he's the most important character in the franchise! You can't have King's Quest without Connor!
True, BUT! Think about this: We're seeing Graham when he's young, and we're seeing him grow up as the chapters go along. But he's not the badass we know and love clearly in this first chapter (Bravery path or not), he's a dorky kid who is seen as the underdog to all these other Knights. That's why I like the branching paths thing for this new game- Graham's brave, humble and clever... but which do we emphasize here, hm? That sounds like character development, something even TSL didn't do, to me. Yes, he had a personality, but I never saw Graham grow or change as a character throughout the episodes so far. In this one, it's clear that they're actually trying to do that, just from what I've been reading in the articles.
I was actually talking to RK about it a few weeks ago, and he did bring up a few points where Graham showed personality in 5... Hang on, let me find it...
Aha!
"5 for the most part. It established Graham as humble (for example, not wanting to be called 'Your Majesty' or even 'King'), Graham was modest. Graham was compassionate - saving the rat from the cat, helping the ants and the bees - all the most defenseless creatures from big bullies - and Graham was brave. Graham was also tricky - sating the Witch's ego by giving her the Bottle - and he was snarky ("Oh, I didn't know this was a PRIVATE forest - do you OWN it?)"
I'm assuming the brave bit was the Mordack battle. I did say that it wasn't really noticeable all that much back then, and most probably wouldn't see it right away, because they were distracted by the hammy acting and the nonsensical puzzle solutions so much that they didn't care about the personality of Graham.
I will concede that he was a blank slate in the first two. I think the first AGI adventurer I saw that had a personality was Sonny Bonds. That's why I like the AGDI verse so much! Also, you forgot one moment in KQ2+: Getting rid of the Enchanter once you have the Emerald made! That is one of my FAVORITE scenes in the game!
I also concede that while yes, saving the rat and the bees is a nice thing to do, the problem that rises from that in his defense is that it's REQUIRED to do so to beat the game. If you don't help the bees or save the rat, you're f***** six ways to Sunday before you realize it. Compassion is going out of your way to help someone, yes, but this sense of compassion is forced upon us and thusly it feels more than a little cheap.
Compare this to, say, the Paladin from Quest for Glory. Yes, there are a few things that you must logically do to become one and if you screw that up, then you've missed out on it in the second game. But take the third game, for instance. Saving the Meerbat is required, yes, but that's for every class. However, one thing you can do that ISN'T required is use your Healing Pills after you rescue it, and the text outright says that you're putting their needs before yours even though you've been injured from the vines yourself.
I don't really remember him being all that annoyed with Cedric, save for the end. "Come ON, Cedric!"
But really, I've kinda taken Edward calling Graham his "finest Knight" with a grain of salt because, like you said, blank slate in KQ1. Looks like we'll be seeing if he's worthy of that title soon... July 28th can't come soon enough...
I had something else I wanted to say, but can't remember what it is.
That sure was one Hell of a magic fruit Graham's daughter brought him.
QuoteAlso, you forgot one moment in KQ2+: Getting rid of the Enchanter once you have the Emerald made! That is one of my FAVORITE scenes in the game!
Heheh... yeah, that was cool.
QuoteCompare this to, say, the Paladin from Quest for Glory. Yes, there are a few things that you must logically do to become one and if you screw that up, then you've missed out on it in the second game. But take the third game, for instance. Saving the Meerbat is required, yes, but that's for every class. However, one thing you can do that ISN'T required is use your Healing Pills after you rescue it, and the text outright says that you're putting their needs before yours even though you've been injured from the vines yourself.
There are other opportunities that you miss out on, by not becoming a paladin in QFG. For example, in Shadows of Darkness, you can befriend the Rusulka as any class. But only as a paladin, can you find out a way to avenge her death and set her spirit free. Then there's the wraith who killed Piotyr in battle. You're required to defeat him, in order to win the game. But only as a paladin, can you find Piotyr's sword and restore his family's honor by bringing it to his grandson, the burgomeister.
That is true. And the Resulka isn't required either, now that I think of it. You get no reward from freeing her aside from self satisfaction.
Quote from: Numbers on July 10, 2015, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on July 10, 2015, 04:35:14 PM
As long as his personality is intact, I don't really care if he looks different.
Uh, slight problem...TSL Graham is the only one that actually has a personality. In the first two games, he's a blank slate, and in KQ5, the only aspects of his personality that we really see are his kleptomania ("I'm trapped in a giant bird's nest, about to be eaten--ooh, a locket!"), occasional annoyance at Cedric and smarmy attitude towards the Witch of the Dark Forest. In KQ6 he only appears in the final cutscene and they cut him out of KQ7.
But of course, MoE Graham is by far the best incarnation: "We must begin construction of a new silo!" In a British accent. Yep, that's the Graham we know and love, all right.
The AGDI remakes gave Graham some more personality, and he was actually kind of cool in KQ2+, zapping Sharkees with his trident, slaying werewolves, outsmarting the dwarf, defeating Hagatha the way he knew how, and beating Morgeilen in a fair fight. It's actually kind of sad when we next see him in KQ3 Redux, a broken shell of who he once was.
TSL Graham for me is the definitive Graham: humble, noble, being able to put the Winged Ones in their place, surviving the initially hostile shape-shifting Morrigan, vowing to keep Valanice safe no matter the cost, relating to Cassima and Edgar, neither of which he knows very well, quick to pick up on how to use the magic amulet--especially since his life depended on knowing how it worked--and generally proving that, even in his old age, he's still got it.
For me, continuing the KQ games the way TOG is doing means Graham and Valanice will eventually have to kick the bucket to make way for the new heroes, which is just depressing. And Alexander and Rosella are going to be much older too, which limits their potential. Then again, I don't like Alexander and I really don't like what Rosella ended up being like later on, so...
But what it all comes down to is...what about Connor?! Clearly, he's the most important character in the franchise! You can't have King's Quest without Connor!
Companion + Novel Graham have the same general personality.
As far as the looks issue: I think they're trying, with the new game, to give the best synthesis of his looks from all 3 games in which he has a clearly defined face (KQ4, KQ5 and 6). He looks vastly different in all 3 games, but if you've noticed, they've kept a number of things which are common to all versions:
-Bigger nose
-Long sideburns
-Slightly bushy eyebrows
-Mullet
IIRC, Graham's appearance in TSL was based upon Harrison Ford mixed with KQ6 Graham.
But Graham has had many faces even pre-KQ8:
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/2/23/GrahamKQ1.png/revision/latest?cb=20100818221020)
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/2/24/GrahamKQ5.png/revision/latest?cb=20100821131837)
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/2/26/GrahamKQ6.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100701130740)
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/8/8e/Graham.png/revision/latest?cb=20080110155840)
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/5/51/GrahamBGC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100821125934)
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/b/b3/KQ9titleTCC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150630133748)
Companion + novel stuff doesn't count. Never has, no matter what Baggins thinks.
And Graham looks exactly the same in all of those pictures. TOG's Graham just looks ugly, both old and young.
I think young Graham looks pretty good. He looks pretty close to how I would picture a younger version of himself.
I do, however, agree old Graham's design does not at all fit with with his younger design. In fact, I think they made him look more than just old but like some ancient wizard or something. Maybe there's a reason for that since I don't think he would have aged that much. How is Gwendolyn? Seven or so? Even if there were a few years between the last adventure and her birth, I don't think Graham would have aged that much...
Uh, I'd hate to break to you, but... TOG considers at least the Companion canon iirc. So... yeah.
I think I actually meant to bring up said Companion and the novels, but some don't consider it canon anyway, so they only have the games to go off on. *shrugs*
Hah, if they do, I'll be curious to see how they reconcile all the conflicting details in the Companion. We certainly had a difficult time doing so!
I'm just waiting for Numbers's head to explode in rage.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on July 11, 2015, 08:52:40 PM
Uh, I'd hate to break to you, but... TOG considers at least the Companion canon iirc.
(http://orig10.deviantart.net/b8f8/f/2013/260/6/7/what_the_crap___by_pokefan117-d6mnded.jpg)
:rofl: HAHAHA!!
Quote from: kyranthia on July 11, 2015, 08:23:14 PM
I think young Graham looks pretty good. He looks pretty close to how I would picture a younger version of himself.
I do, however, agree old Graham's design does not at all fit with with his younger design. In fact, I think they made him look more than just old but like some ancient wizard or something. Maybe there's a reason for that since I don't think he would have aged that much. How is Gwendolyn? Seven or so? Even if there were a few years between the last adventure and her birth, I don't think Graham would have aged that much...
Well, consider that in Roberta's view, KQ8 only took place a few years after KQ7, yet Graham was already old - Her words "Graham is now old". Yet Rosella was still young enough to have a potential love triangle between herself, Connor and Edgar (This was one of Roberta's ideas for a plot line for a KQ9). He aged greatly between 6 and 8. But Graham's age has always been all over the place. If you read some sources, like the KQ7 Player's Guide, Graham is only supposed to be 44 at the time of KQ7...Yet he has a full head of grey hair and is referred to as "old" in KQ4....
Quote from: Numbers on July 11, 2015, 07:40:22 PM
Companion + novel stuff doesn't count. Never has, no matter what Baggins thinks.
And Graham looks exactly the same in all of those pictures. TOG's Graham just looks ugly, both old and young.
He doesn't look exactly the same though.
KQ1 Graham - long black hair, thinner nose and eyebrows.
KQ5 Graham - thicker eyebrows, bigger nose, wavy hair
I mean look at the two versions of KQ6 Graham, the non-enhanced and the enhanced version. Two totally different faces.
What TOG seems to want to do is to synthesize the various looks Graham has had. Not do a carbon copy of one or the other. I mean if they were trying to do a departure from Graham's appearance, why give him the hat? Why give him the sideburns? Why in 2015 give him a mullet?
Can I just say that I'm REALLY glad that Roberta never went with that idea? Because I've always HATED love triangles.
Besides, Connor seems to be attracted to Sarah anyway.
Speaking of Connor, I think it would be kinda interesting to see, say, a young Connor in one of the chapters. Like, have a situation like in the Air Gem tests that reminds you of the first test- the one where Graham meets Edward and gets in trouble. Could do something like that for Connor and Graham, give Connor more character and such.
Yes, yes, I realise that your "Where's Connor?!" comment is meant to be a joke, but hey, it could work. :)
That love triangle was yet another one of Roberta's stupid decisions, and why it's a good thing the series died before it could get any worse.
Here's hoping that TOG is smarter with the series. ;)
Pretty sure TOG have in fact disregarded that love triangle idea. I believe the GameInformer article stated that Gwendolyn is taking part in a competition against her cousin; who is the son of Rosella and Edgar. And I personally don't see Rosella as the kind of girl who would cheat on her husband, particularly after everything they did for each other, and after giving birth to his child.
Oh, I knew about Gart. I meant about them being stupid in general with their ideas.
I personally think the game looks great so far. I love the art direction (even if it is a bit cartoony) and they got a great voice cast, too. As far as story and gameplay go, I guess it's a bit too early to tell. But I'm excited.
Tom Kenny is PERFECT for the Merchant of Miracles, I say! He sounds like a total sleezeball, but a sleezeball you can love to hate. :P
Wow, I was unaware of the voice cast until now. Christopher Lloyd? Great scott! :P
For those who haven't seen it: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/king-s-quest-revival-has-a-seriously-impressive-vo/1100-6427253/
I'm telling ya, there are gonna be SO many BTTF/KQ memes on opening week on social media.
And Wallace Shawn! They got some pretty big names
Not gonna lie, I had to hear Wallace's voice again to remember who he was.
You forgot what he sounded like?! INCONCEIVABLE!!!
:rofl: lol
Just remember that a game's success doesn't hinge on celebrity voice actors. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare didn't automatically become a good game just because Kevin Spacey was in it.
Oh, I know, Numbers. :)
Quote from: Numbers on July 23, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
Just remember that a game's success doesn't hinge on celebrity voice actors. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare didn't automatically become a good game just because Kevin Spacey was in it.
Hinge, no, but maybe someone who is a fan of any of the actors might say, "Hmm, I wonder how that game is."
I'm actually wondering though when we'll start seeing reviews for the game.
There was a ton from E3.
Also, they are very good actors and, from what I can tell so far, fit their roles pretty well.
Celebrity voices usually take me out of the game. Whenever I heard Tony Jay's voice in KQ6, I instantly recognized it as Judge Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. As soon as the game starts and Alexander enters the Castle of the Crown, I hear Saladin speaking and go "Hey, it's Tony Jay!" Then I hear the Lamp Seller just a couple of screens away and I'm like "He's doing another voice!" Then I hear the Archdruid doing his monologue and I say to myself "They got him to do three voices?" Then I approach Gate in the Underworld and next thing I know, it's Tony Jay again. And then he does one of the background voices during Alexander's confrontation with Samhain and I'm like "Seriously? Which characters don't have Tony Jay voicing them? At least I know he's not voicing Jollo."
Oh please, that's nothing. Jim Cummings' voice is pretty much EVERYWHERE in Skyrim.
Also, Mel Blanc says hi. Or rather... he says, "What's up, Doc?" and "Thufferin' Thuccotash!" and "You're dethpicable!" and "That's all, folks!" and "I tought I taw a puddy tat!" and... you get my drift.
I played KQ VI prior to Hunchback coming out, so all of the Tony Jay characters weren't Frollo to me yet. Instead, he was the creepy guy asylum guy form Beauty & the Beast.
The narrator (Bill Ratner) was the same voice that used to do the promos for WCVB (Boston's ABC affiliate) for years. I remember being like, "Hey, it's the Channel 5 guy."
To be honest, having the 'that guy/gal' moment just takes me out the story for a moment. Then I'm right back in with the person just being the voice of the character.
If I had Tony Jay on payroll to do some VA work, I'd probably give him a boatload of characters to voice, too. :)
Quote from: Jack Stryker on July 23, 2015, 07:34:04 PM
Oh please, that's nothing. Jim Cummings' voice is pretty much EVERYWHERE in Skyrim.
Also, Mel Blanc says hi. Or rather... he says, "What's up, Doc?" and "Thufferin' Thuccotash!" and "You're dethpicable!" and "That's all, folks!" and "I tought I taw a puddy tat!" and... you get my drift.
I guess I should clarify that whenever a
distinct celebrity voice is heard, it takes me out of the game. Tony Jay just sounds like himself, no matter which character he's voicing. I don't have a problem with his voice, honestly--he's pretty much the Morgan Freeman of voice acting--but I can always tell when it's him. Jim Cummings and Mel Blanc can sound like whatever they want to sound like.
Long story short, hearing Christopher Lloyd's voice is going to take me out of the game whenever I hear it. Not that I'm immediately pre-ordering it like some brainless fangirl--I'm going to watch a longplay of it on YouTube first. And even if it looks good, there's no way I'm paying full price for it. Episodic games are such bullshit. If you need to make an adventure game, just make the whole thing at once, stop making people pay for little bits of it at a time, and just live with the fact that you're going to have to sell it for less than most other games out there.
Also, I absolutely despise Tom Kenny and Wallace Shawn's voices. They're just so ugly to listen to, and neither of them are remotely funny in anything they're in.
Eh, to each their own. Not gonna stop me from enjoying it.
Quote from: KatieHal on July 24, 2015, 09:51:19 AM
If I had Tony Jay on payroll to do some VA work, I'd probably give him a boatload of characters to voice, too. :)
His voice was amazing, that's for sure. My friend and I used joke, "Imagine having him for a Dad. He'd yell at you and you'd probably get scared right into being good again!" lol.
QuoteTony Jay just sounds like himself, no matter which character he's voicing. I don't have a problem with his voice, honestly--he's pretty much the Morgan Freeman of voice acting--but I can always tell when it's him.
True, he really only had 2 tones of voice. One was the powerful deep voice, the other was the raspy sort of old guy voice.
QuoteIf you need to make an adventure game, just make the whole thing at once, stop making people pay for little bits of it at a time, and just live with the fact that you're going to have to sell it for less than most other games out there.
Part of the reason I just paid for it up front was that it was $10 cheaper that way. Plus you get some bonus level too if you buy it early. I had Amazon gift card money too so, at worst, I won't feel too much like I lost money on it.
Quote from: kyranthia on July 24, 2015, 04:03:41 PM
Plus you get some bonus level too if you buy it early.
What TOG isn't telling you is that the bonus level is just you playing as Connor trying to shoot birds flying by with a crossbow, and every time you miss, Cedric pops out of the bushes laughing at you.
HAHAHA!!!
Quote from: Numbers on July 28, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
What TOG isn't telling you is that the bonus level is just you playing as Connor trying to shoot birds flying by with a crossbow, and every time you miss, Cedric pops out of the bushes laughing at you.
Oh the mental image. :)