POStudios Forum

Rons cool. If it wasn't for him and Emma(hermione) I think I'd fall asleep watching Harry trying to act.

You have a really good point, Alex.  But he was much better in the 2nd movie.  But Ron and Hermione are such good actors!  No wonder it's so hard to be Harry Potter ;).

So what are they going to do now that the actress for Hermione has left? I wonder... ???

They can hold Harry Potter back in school a few years... so what if he's 25 and a 4th year? ::)

Emma Watson left? What??  But I could swear I read something about how she just recently signed to do Goblet of Fire! She just happened to be the last one to do so!

If she did, they'd just have to find a new Herminone, which is sad because she's perfect for it.

The kid playing Draco, now I heard he might not do GoF...

aww that sucks, I do hope she will appear on the others harry potter movies (if there are more) I did like her as herminone too  :(

Well... in all honesty, if she can't handle a bit of ribbing and negativity about her roles, acting might not be the best thing for her. Not meant to be an insult, just a statement of practicality. Creative pursuits can be very rewarding, but they aren't for those with easily bruised self-esteem.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yeah, really.  hey Emma, here's a comeback for you: "I was a famous and rich actress before I even hit puberty. And it's only going uphill from there. What'd you do? Get a gold star on your test?"

When did you hear this news of her not being in the films? Like, it's recent as of when...?

I heard it a few months ago, she was probably convinced to go back into the movie.

Ahh, okay, yeah. The news of her being the last of the three to sign for GoF was more recent than that.


PHEW!  ::)

Quote from: Jeysie on November 20, 2003, 03:35:05 PM
Well... in all honesty, if she can't handle a bit of ribbing and negativity about her roles, acting might not be the best thing for her. Not meant to be an insult, just a statement of practicality. Creative pursuits can be very rewarding, but they aren't for those with easily bruised self-esteem.

Very true, Jeysie.  But we are talking about a 13 year old.  And it's one thing to get ribbing from strangers every once in a while, but to get it from classmates that you have no choice but to see everyday - it can wear on you BIG TIME.  So I don't blame her for not wanting to do the 4th.  I think the 4th will be the last for all of them, especially since it's going to be a 2 parter.  The filming is also very draining.  You work long hours and then have to study for school as well.  It's very exhausting.  I'm glad she'll be in the 4th movie.  She's definitely the perfect Hermione.

It'll be interesting to see who they cast for the 5th - especially since Daniel Radcliffe will probably be 6 foot bazillion by then - have you seen the size of that boy's feet?!?!?  YIKES!  And I thought my hobbit feet were big ;).

Quote from: mfortunato on November 21, 2003, 03:59:30 PMVery true, Jeysie.  But we are talking about a 13 year old.  And it's one thing to get ribbing from strangers every once in a while, but to get it from classmates that you have no choice but to see everyday - it can wear on you BIG TIME.

Hon... I spent my entire childhood up to high school being picked on and beat up... I know what it feels like. And unlike this actress, the things I was getting picked on about were not paying me, nor earning me fame and fortune.

My comment still stands. If she's not ready to deal with such pressure, she shouldn't be professionally acting yet. Like I said, I wasn't trying to insult her. In fact, I was defending the notion that perhaps it might have been good for her to step back for a while if she was really feeling bothered.

Peace & Luv, Liz

But isn't the damage already pretty much done? I mean, If she quit, maybe the wouldn't hassle her when every new movie premiers, but she'd still be famous  ::)

yeah she would still be famous, and yeah I agree also with mike shes just a kiddo anyways, she had a big breakthrough with those movies perhaps she didnt see coming its not a matter of if your 14  or so take it or leave it, in fact at still so young I still believe she's got somewhat a call wheter she wants to do it or not, you are not as mature as you can be right now as when you were 14, and I think everyone around here has been there.

Yeah, kid actors always have issues... but adult actors also have issues  :P

Which book(s) of Harry Potter do you still need to read?

Dew: I've read the first, and I'm six chapters into the second. At the rate I read, I'll likely be done with it by the end of the week or so.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Jeysie: I have read all five Potter books and really enjoy the series.

Dew! have you read really all 5 Potter books?! is it true that in the 5th book (I guess?) someone from the main kids die!? I haven't read any potter book myself, but I'm so curious :P

I've read all five...loved my class last semester where we studied HP...anyway, one of the main kids doesn't die in the fifth book...but someone does.

Ooh...ok then :P

thanks for clearing that up Cat ;)

Say, an important character dies but I do not want to say any more because that will spoil it for you.   ;)

Well that wraps it up for tonight ---  :sleepy:

(chuckles at the non-spoilers)

Well, I finished the second book, and I'm halfway through the third. I like the Weaselys quite a bit, although I suspect I act more like Hermione, woe be to everybody. :pokerface:i

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yay, a Harry Potter thread! Some more detailed thoughts then...

Anyhoo. OK, so now I've read the third book, and I'm a quarter of a way through the fourth.

First, the bad. Namely that I think the fact that the books are so wildly popular is more a testament to the state of reading among youth nowadays than it is to the books themselves. They're not the best books I've read, and there's not really anything in the books that is revolutionary compared a number of other novels... just that kids don't usually get exposed to those other novels in better circumstances than cruddy reading classes. (I mean, heck, I've been a voracious reader since I first learned to read, and I still loathed reading classes... I can only imagine how a kid less inclined to reading must feel.)

Now the good: Don't read too much dour into my previous statements... I still think they're very good and very fun books (or I wouldn't still be reading them, heh) Plus there's "nothing new under the sun" anyway, and Rowling gives a very creative and fresh spin on everything.

Even better, this is one of the few popular kids' trends within my memory I would consider not to be brain-dead on some level. (That's not to say I think all other popular kids trends are *bad*... there's very few I'd give that label to. Just that most of them aren't exactly intellectually or culturally stimulating.) Besides, it might inspire kids to read more sci-fi and fantasy. :)

Oh, and I still love the Weasleys. I would have loved to have a family like that to hang out with. :) I think I'd particularly enjoy getting along with Fred and George...

Peace & Luv, Liz

*Awaits Katie Weasly to appear*

Jeysie: You've so far  read the intro into the world of Harry Potter (imo). From the 4th book onwards the story really starts pick up and there is a definate shift in the tone of the book more towards the adult end.

Oh also ona  side note, so far I havent really been that impressed by the films. If i hadn't read the books I'd be perfectly happy with them but having read the books, it just makes certain faults of the films stand out more. I don't know how they're going to do book 4 justice as theres so much going on...All i can hope for is that the DVDs from now on have a theatrical cut and a directors cut ala LoTR.

Roll on Harry Potter and the Half blood Prince!

i am glad to say that i have not read a single harry potter book! therefore i am the best! :suffer:

Are there that few people that haven't read the books? ???

omg i didnt see that say was also a non potter person. huzzah  :iluvu: Say

*looks up estimate of Harry Potter readers in US*

hehe, nevermind. :P

Heh.

I didn't read the books for the longest time... when you're a brainy geek who's used to seeing your fave stuff get cancelled due to low ratings/sales and get replaced with brainless fluff that gets higher ratings, well... it's easy to get into the mindset of "It's popular, therefore it must suck." Heck, 90% of the time I think you'd even be right.

But after hearing bits and pieces about the HP universe here and there, I finally decided to give it a whirl... and now I'm half-thinking I should have read them before. On the one hand, I would have gotten to read them a lot sooner. On the other hand, I get to read all five books so far in one go without having to wait like everyone else did. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Harry Potter eh?

Well, here's how I see it (puts on critics cap...)

I myself have been forced to read every last book in the series. Personally, I don't see what the fuss is about, there are not stories that I would find particularly memorable nor are they stories that I find particularly gripping (thats what Clare Francis books do for me but that is another matter...)
However, I can see why they are a sucess from another perspective. The stories are clearly written, they are not terrifically complex or challenging reads and I have yet to see anything truly nasty happen to anyone in them (and I mean hardcore nasty stuff which would be inappropriate for a childrens book).

There's my view anyway (admittedly coming from a chap who writes his own stories instead of reading others and when he does read the work of others, it is mostly hidieously technical books that would defy reading unless you really interested in the subject matter.)

Mind you...the increasing thickness of Harry Potter books mean that if I buy the rest of the series I will be able to stack them up with enough height to replace the missing leg of my workbench in the garage!

Quote from: Jeysie on September 21, 2004, 12:56:44 PM
I get to read all five books so far in one go without having to wait like everyone else did. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz

and then the 6th is announced. :suffer:

Quote from: Shadowfax on September 21, 2004, 01:04:18 PM
I myself have been forced to read every last book in the series. Personally, I don't see what the fuss is about, there are not stories that I would find particularly memorable nor are they stories that I find particularly gripping

But aren't you curious about all the whys and hows behind so much of the books? I think thats the main hook for me, each one so far has raised a new riddle to solve (pun not intended hehe) and more questions raised. Plus I think the whole universe is so realised and lifelike that its easy to slip back into it each time a new book comes out  :smitten:

he's only saying that coz he IS harry potter  ::)

Well...no...I haven't even seen any so called "why's" or "how's." Any questions are concluded at the end of the book (and the few that remain will obviously only be answered by the last books in the series).

Sorry, I see Harry Potter as a children's story that has just so happened to capture the hearts of everyone except me.

I myself am into extremely dark works (primarily because I write dark works constantly). I do not like to slip into a happy, comfortable world as it represents lies and treason to me (this is more of a personal thing, I deal with lies every day so I have to be on my guard). If the Harry Potter series becomes more brutal then maybe (not violence if that is what you are thinking, more along the lines of the villains being more psychologically disturbing). However, such things are impractical for the Harry Potter franchise to cover so I do not expect it to.

Quote from: Kimmie on September 21, 2004, 02:10:36 PM
he's only saying that coz he IS harry potter  ::)

No...sorry...no Harry Potter here. I do extremely high tech stuff...not magic.

Besides, I write books on darkness and evil, there are no "good guys" everyone is corrupt as everyone else so no character is likeable. Hope is considered heracy against whatever false god is in power and free speech is also considered treason by everyone.
As you can see, my books will not make best sellers as a result!

I prefer darker works myself, but it's bad for the soul to never read anything more light-hearted. And if I'm going to read something light-hearted, I'd prefer it to be something intelligent and light-hearted. I'd consider the HP books intelligent. Sometimes... ya just gotta be a kid again. :)

Peace & Luv, Liz

(sighs inwardly)

Look okay, maybe I am very, very bleak. If you had gone through what I went through (a horrific period spanning 10 years with fear and pain constantly on the agenda) then you will understand why I adopt such a bleak view. Also, things aren't going well for me at the moment (people armed to the teeth asking for your name doesn't really help.) I have had "that bleak an attitude" for an extremely long time now and current events are not going to make me change it. :'(

BTW When I posted in the Kimmie and Questie magical dream thread about my weird disaster dreams, why did you want me to move down to Washington?

Sorry if this is off-topic, I just have to know!  ;)

Are you sure you can't move somewhere else?

Anyhoo. While, erm, my life wasn't as miserable as yours sounds, it wasn't exactly happy, either.

I think my personal mantra for my entire life so far has been "This too shall pass." Just a reminder to myself that the miserable times don't last forever... they're just speedbumps on the way to striving towards the happy moments.

Some people here (glares at Questie) might paint me as pessimistic, but I'm really pretty idealistic. I just realize that working towards your ideals only works if you come to grips with reality while doing it.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Trust me, as a person I am destroyed.

I do have an official doctrine for all the things I have dealt with in life and gives operational experience on how such problems were eliminated (it is an almighty tome I will tell you). I view the remains of my life as a giant problem to be resolved and re-organised anyway.

As for your final comment; I drink to that!  ;D

Sorry everyone who saw that. You are not to discuss what you saw on that post with anyone. I realised I would breach my warrant by saying what I said there so...

(If no-one understands what I have just said then that is a good thing, you are not meant to know.)

Look Shadowfax, I hail from the opposite side of the coin.  I see hope in many things.  Now let us be more positive in the future.

Hmm. (thinks up questions)

Who's everyone's favorite characters? I rather like Ron and Professor Lupin so far. Hermione reminds me a little too much of me as a kid... and Harry's a decent sort, but has things just simply fall into his lap a little too much.

And which house would you be in? Judging by the descriptions, I'd be in either Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yeah, Lupin is a decent sort and I like him as a character.

Loved Sirius the first time I read through the books...but after I took my class and read the fifth book, he wasn't really my favorite anymore.

And my class on Fantasy Lit. opened my eyes to how SMART Rowling is.  I so wish I could have the time to type up all my notes...that would be SO cool!  All HP fans would love the insite that can be gained from those notes!

Well, I may not be the worlds greatest fan of Harry Potter books but if I was to pick a favourite character I suppose I would pick Lupin as well (seemed the vaguely mysterious type to me, with an infinte awareness of the world around him.)

See, I do have something postive to say about the books  ;)

My favourite is LOOOOOONEY LUNA! She so cool, and she has that Lion hat in book 5 <3 Also for some reason I get the feeling that shes going to be an important character in the next two books, something about the way Harry looks at her at the end of book 5 or something...

*goes off to read order of the phoenix again*

Oh and cat, what was the topic of the insites into the books? I've read loads of things about how some people actually consider the series to be modern conversions of bible stories! Very strange indeed and Rowling has always denied any intentional bible connotations too.

Oh and housewise I'd say Ravenclaw too. Powerful without being eviiiiiiil.

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on September 22, 2004, 05:23:31 AM
Oh and cat, what was the topic of the insites into the books? I've read loads of things about how some people actually consider the series to be modern conversions of bible stories! Very strange indeed and Rowling has always denied any intentional bible connotations too.

I don't think in any of our classes we talked about connections between the books and the Bible.  We talked more about how characters are named and how there are connections throughout the books that quite a few people might not recognize on their own.  I REALLY need to see if I can type up my notes!  Of course, gotta go home and get them first :P

Ahhhh the names. Yes some are very clever indeed, such as Remus lupin was derived from Romulus and Reamus, the greek twins who were raised by wolves which then led to fans thinking Lupin had a twin. Theres loads about it on Rowlings site (not the harry potter one, her very own site jkrowling.com). Hahaha this topic has got me all hyped about the new book now and I thought i could cope with the wait!

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on September 22, 2004, 05:43:16 AM
Hahaha this topic has got me all hyped about the new book now and I thought i could cope with the wait!

And no date has been set yet, has it?? :(

I really like Sirius :D! Unfortunately i havent read the 5th book yet :'(

Go read the fifth book...we won't post spoilers here!

Harry Potter definitely lacks in complexity on pretty much every area... Except the one area Rowlings is most experienced with. Her books pretty accurately account scholastic beaurocracy and the kids they supposedly (mostly unsuccessfully) teach. Read the books looking for this and you will get a revelation on the world's pathetic educational techniques. (Either that, or pass out and have a vision... the result is much the same. ;) )

As for the simplistic Bad guy / Good guy thing... I think it might do our extremely wishy-washy culture some good. Yes its a little extreme and cardboard... but things have gone so far in the other direction we should strive to balance things a little. (Not too hot and not too cold)

Hehehehe!

Right on mate!  ;D

Kimmy said:

*am glad to say that i have not read a single harry potter book! therefore i am the best*

Blasphemer!!! Where is my wet noodle! (Goes in search of it and the holy ground hog, armed to the teeth with plastic sporks and wearing pillows strapped to her chest for armor)

Really...what is so nice about Harry Potter to me is that it teaches children about things you encounter as an adult but puts it in a way they can understand.  For instance, *SPOILAGE*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Fudge's behavior throughout the whole thing.  If it isn't purely beauracratic I don't know what is.  Fudge is a bit on the selfish and blind side and he has you scratching your head going...how could anyone be that stupid? And yet he behaves that way...just like a lot of adults in this world.  Kids would be scratching their heads too, but maybe if they pay attention they would know the behavior for what it is in the future.  It also teaches them that adults aren't perfect, and maybe helps them understand when they reach a wonderful (agh I hated this) age like 15 that although said heroes aren't perfect they really love you.  For instance, Dumbledore's behavior towards Harry throughout, which is explained in the 5th book.  

It makes it magic and fun for children and yet it grows at the same time, and it also appeals to adults because you can look at it and say you know...I've seen it before.  I know what that is like.  Then you hope those characters get their bottoms kicked, and it is generally satisfying when they do.

I cannot express how much I appreciate Harry Potter and I would certainly let my children (if I had any) read it.  

My favorite character, btw is Hermione because she is strong and independent, smart and clever but capable of being beautiful as well.  She has a good heart, but is still growing like the rest of us.  A very good model for young girls.

Take a look :) Tis mine. :)

<edit> Drat. Exceeded my own data transfer by looking at my own wonderfulness..drat, drat drat.  I'll just attach it here.

And I know someone like Luna Lovegood, and she is just wonderful...although a bit strange, I'll admit. :)

Good..now I've gushed my most.  I was just planning on rereading the books too. lol

Well, obviously someone is a fan of the books!

As I mentioned earlier it isn't...well...strong enough for my tastes but I can appreciate why others enjoy it!

I only read book no. 3 (translated) just to see what all the fuss is about.
My conclusion? Great PR work, and not much else.
The book itself is good, but it's not breaking new grounds, not doing anything that hasn't been done before - nothing to warrant all the mass hysteria around it.
What we do have there is a coherent, well-written, interesting story with all the right elements, and a lot of PR.

I don't know anyone who just came up to a book shop and bought that book without knowing about it beforehand (of course, the book arrived here only after it was a huge success abroad). Right now, people buy the book mostly because everyone else also did... what's interesting (and would probably be taught on marketing classes in years to come) is to hear how it all started ::)

Quote from: FataliOmega on September 22, 2004, 02:00:24 PMHarry Potter definitely lacks in complexity on pretty much every area...

Complexity isn't always a good thing... especially in a book aimed at children, and most especially today's 20-commercial-messages-a-minute short-attention-span kids :-\
I'm not too big on complexity or technical details myself - I remember reading books that just made me want to yell "cut this boring crap and move along with the plot, would you?" :bomb:

Quote from: FataliOmega on September 22, 2004, 02:00:24 PMRead the books looking for this and you will get a revelation on the world's pathetic educational techniques.

What really bothered me is the reckless disregard for the children's lives and general health :o
It's a good thing the plot takes place in the UK... if it was in America, the parents would sue the pants off Hogwarts :P

Quote from: Jeysie on September 21, 2004, 06:36:26 PMAnd which house would you be in? Judging by the descriptions, I'd be in either Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff.

Gryffindor, of course. From what I saw, no other house stands a chance of winning at the end of the year... correct me if I'm wrong though, I only know about the first 3 years ::)

Haha, I finally got here, Alex.  ;)

I'm pretty sure I've gone on at length before about the HP books and all the things I love about them. But hey, I'm a fantasy buff, I love well-written characters who actually change and develop, and I like to know it IS possible to come up with a great idea, get it written, and make that dream come true.

I admit to being disheartened about replying at all when I read some of the responses in here, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

And in my opinion, they are well-written, they're clear and easy to read. The most complex things? No. The bestest books evar? Probably not. Do I still love them? You bet. Rowling has created a long-spanning storyline (Harry vs. Voldemort, more or less) and still creates smaller story arcs, the mystery that spans each book, minor sub plots and characters and storylines within, and all of these things change and develop over time. I'd say there aer very few mentions or ideas,etc, that don't factor into the story.

Most of all, the way she's woven all these characters, storylines, themes, and the extensive history of the world she's created all together in a way that not only involves all of them, but makes them all fit together and develop. I love writing and do it plenty, and I *know* that's hard to do. Sure, the good guys tend to win, but they don't go unscarred or unchanged by what happens while they get there. And there are definitely unanswered questions left (some depend on where you are in the books). Why is Harry still alive? Why didn't Voldemort die when he originally tried to kill Harry? What's going to happen to all these characters--Harry, Hermione, Ron, the Weasleys, the many teachers of Hogwarts, the Dursleys, Voldemort, so on and so forth? And most of all, Hermione and Ron or Harry? (I'm a fan of the H & H pairing!)

Is some recklessness at Hogwarts? Yes. But for those who have read and enjoyed them, would the books be better off if they just played by the rules all the time? Heck no. ;)

Some people might say they don't like them, but I would encourage anyone to go and read them (Kimmie  :P) and *then* form their own opinion about it. Especially once the over-arching story begins to take off in the 3rd book, things get better, IMO.

Oh, and Rowling has said that it's not in her plan, nor was at any point, for them to get progressively bigger. So 6 and 7 may be shorter than 5 (which, IMO, was a bit too long and could've used some more editing. HA! SEE! I said something not glowing about it!)

I just wanted to drop in real quick and say that I did remember to pick up my HP class notes from home.  If anyone wants a copy of them AFTER I get them typed out (hopefully soon), IM me with the email addy you prefer to get them at.  Hope you guys enjoy!

Quote from: Storm on September 27, 2004, 12:14:00 PM
I only read book no. 3 (translated) just to see what all the fuss is about.
My conclusion? Great PR work, and not much else.
The book itself is good, but it's not breaking new grounds, not doing anything that hasn't been done before - nothing to warrant all the mass hysteria around it.

I get what you're saying but when were they ever described as breaking new grounds or doing new ideas? Its clear that Rowling has many many influences within the book (LoTR is an obvious one whether she conciously chose to or not) so I don't think thats even the case here.

As Katie said they're good, solid stories that are actually *gasp* fun to read! (not aimed at you personally storm :p)

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on September 28, 2004, 07:28:30 AM
(LoTR is an obvious one whether she conciously chose to or not)

I so agree with this statement.  I'm working on retyping my class notes...and there have been a couple references to things that happened in or just referring to LoTR.  I know there are more than I wrote down, but what's cool is to read Tolkien's "On Fairy-Stories" essay and then apply what he talks about what fairy stories are to both LoTR and HP!

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on September 28, 2004, 07:28:30 AMwhen were they ever described as breaking new grounds or doing new ideas?

I never said they were described as such - I pretty much said the opposite :-\

Ah sorry storm i Misinterpreted what you meant. I thought you were saying you had read or heard that they were breaking new grounds etc.

i hav a professor snape

This teacher must be really mean.   :o

QuoteComplexity isn't always a good thing... especially in a book aimed at children, and most especially today's 20-commercial-messages-a-minute

This is true. I guess what I meant was it lacked some depth. Lord Voldemort, for instance, is a flat, stereotypical bad guy. Im not saying he should be sympathized with or a wishy-washy sorta, kinda, a bad guy... I simply mean his personality couldve been slightly more interesting and unique. He just doesnt stand out.  :P

Yup, one iota of individuality, something more powerful and sinister so he would become a really evil being would be nice. He just...well...doesn't seem ruthless enough somehow for the descriptions that have been attached to him (with all that potential power he has he could go about and usurp the entire regime of the "good" wizards through the incitement of hatred and violence within their ranks, once again however, that would not be appropriate in a childrens book!)

Sorry, but in the books I write the evil characters are extremely evil and a perpetrators of truly horrific things. Because of this, no evil character in a story seems to do justice to their reputation in my eyes, they don't seem...well...ruthless enough! (I do especially detest it when characters do evil things for the sole reason they were born with an evil sounding name!  ;))

BTW, why is Voldemort evil? *All the present Harry Potter fans mouths drop and stare at Shadowfax with a furious look in their eyes, "Well, don't you know why, how can you possibly, not, know?"*

;)

Quote from: FataliOmega on September 29, 2004, 08:56:05 AM
This is true. I guess what I meant was it lacked some depth. Lord Voldemort, for instance, is a flat, stereotypical bad guy. Im not saying he should be sympathized with or a wishy-washy sorta, kinda, a bad guy... I simply mean his personality couldve been slightly more interesting and unique. He just doesnt stand out.  :P

I really wouldn't call Voldemort Stereotypical. If he was a sterotypical bad guy he would have virtually no motive for being evil, he just would be evil out of pure evilness. This is not the case and you find alot of motives in the books, especially chamber of secrets and goblet of fire. I wont list them because of spoilers but believe me he does have reasons for being a mega b**** and in the forthcoming book you find out even more as well.

Quote from: Shadowfax on September 29, 2004, 02:20:42 PM
(I do especially detest it when characters do evil things for the sole reason they were born with an evil sounding name!  ;))

BTW, why is Voldemort evil? *All the present Harry Potter fans mouths drop and stare at Shadowfax with a furious look in their eyes, "Well, don't you know why, how can you possibly, not, know?"*

;)

*SPOILERT!*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Tom Riddle isnt really a very evil sounding name...to me anyway  ;)

Oh and *drops mouth in shock* YOU DON'T KNOW!? Go and read them again if you really do want to know :p

Quote from: Shadowfax on September 29, 2004, 02:20:42 PM
He just...well...doesn't seem ruthless enough somehow for the descriptions that have been attached to him (with all that potential power he has he could go about and usurp the entire regime of the "good" wizards through the incitement of hatred and violence within their ranks, once again however, that would not be appropriate in a childrens book!)

omg i forogt to quote this part too!
*SPOILAGE AGAIN!*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Re:Ruthless - Cutting off your only loyal allies arm who has nursed you slowly back to health over the past year to regain a body isn't ruthless enough for you?

Re:Incitement of hatred, this is exactly what is starting in the 5th book! He's already sent people to get the giants on his side, he's already sent people to get goblins on his side, he's already corrupted and controlled high ranking members of the wizarding world to get things going his own way!

*breaths heavily and realises hes sounding like a HP fan boy*

WELL I AM!  ;D

hahaha, alex is spoiler boy :P

Politics are not to be discussed on the public forum. You may send people e-mails, PMs, or use messengers to discuss politics, but it is NOT to be discussed on the public forum.

Until Say or Neil decide otherwise, this thread is locked.

Correct.  Rune consider this your first warning to leave politics and other offensive topics out of this forum.  I've modified your post and unlocked this thread, but I'll just remind everyone again that if such controversial topics come up again, the thread will be permanently locked.

Phew! I thought I had done something wrong for a minute!

Anyhoo,
Re:Ruthless - Cutting off your only loyal allies arm who has nursed you slowly back to health over the past year to regain a body isn't ruthless enough for you?

Sorry, no. I have seen the results of real life torture and other genocidal acts by the evil men that have graced alarmingly recent history. To me that is not ruthless enough (trust me, I have seen every hideous act that can be done.)

Re:Incitement of hatred, this is exactly what is starting in the 5th book! He's already sent people to get the giants on his side, he's already sent people to get goblins on his side, he's already corrupted and controlled high ranking members of the wizarding world to get things going his own way!

Well, maybe so, I talk about hatred in terms of outright brutality and violence (i.e. civil war). Besides, he needs a greater political powerbase within the wizarding worlds movers and shakers. He needs some form of assasination ring to eliminate undesirables and he needs to incite very, very wicked ideas into some heads before he truly succeeds (I would give examples but it would breach forum rules about politics/religion/race).

Sorry, its just that I write about far more evil villians than that of Voldemort (I would post an example of my work but you would need to be over a certain age to read it). Arghhh! Frustration!

I dont think it isnt stereotypical for a bad guy to have reasons for being bad. (Id come down even harder on JK Rowlings if he didnt.) IMHO Lucius Mallfoy is an infinitely more interesting bad guy than You-Know-Who. Hes clever and devious... something Voldemort isnt. Voldemort is more of the "blow stuff up, kill people, for the heck of it" kind of person. Not my style, and not very deep.

BTW, what reasons are you citing for Voldemort to be evil? Its been a little while since I read the books... but I dont think they really give much in the way of reasons...  ???

Yup, Mallfroy has a far more vicious streak than Voldemort.

As for his reasons for being evil? Well I still do not understand as to why myself. When I read the books I did not see any particualar reason as to why (something about a rebellion possibly, ala Lucifer  ???)

Yeah... me too. Arrogance is the most I can come up with. Maybe a lil prejudice too, but thats mere speculation. The few cases where the Big V shows up he certainly doesnt seem to care much about the whole mudblood / pure blood thing. Ahh well... One more example that she couldve done a better job on him...  :P

I agree, he could have been more ruthless with that "mudblood thing," after all, it is technically a form of racism. If he was really wicked, he could exploit that in some form (once again, cannot give any examples as that would breach forum regulations but I am sure you can use your imagination as to how he could do it). Oh well!

BTW, we probably risk being burnt at the stake by some over-zealous Harry Potter fans now!   ;)

*shrug* Ive never been particularly good at holding my tongue.

Besides, I like Harry Potter... I just think somethings couldve been done better. No writing is ever perfect... I think, for a kids book series, its not half bad.... No Narnia, of course, but C.S. Lewis was the best writer in the world... NO one can match him!  :D

Quote from: FataliOmega on September 30, 2004, 04:37:04 PM
Yeah... me too. Arrogance is the most I can come up with. Maybe a lil prejudice too, but thats mere speculation. The few cases where the Big V shows up he certainly doesnt seem to care much about the whole mudblood / pure blood thing. Ahh well... One more example that she couldve done a better job on him...  :P

Well, I'm not done typing my notes out yet...just got through with Book 3...4 and 5 might take a while...but there is the question: Why did Voldemort want to kill Harry Potter??  In Book 3, it is mentioned that the Potters were being watched since a year before they were killed...OR since Harry's birth.  In Book 5, I think it was referred to because of the prophecy (won't elaborate further for those who haven't read the books...but look at the parallels between Neville and Harry).  But it's not completely clear...and may not be until the seventh book.

The Prophecy bit, I think, is a very clever plot device JK threw in in the 5th book... It definitely explains why Harry and his parents were important to the Big V, aside from Harry's parents being big Dumbledoor supporters. To be honest, its a good thing she did add that... otherwise it logically would seem a little too convenient.

Ahh. I must admit, I feel compelled to add two cents...

L
o
t
s

a
n
d

l
o
t
s

o
f

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
!

The prophecy's been around in mention at least since Book 3, Fatali.

At any rate... in regards to LV, I think Fatali and Shadow, you're forgetting that for one, we see all the happenings in the books from almost entirely Harry's POV, and two, up until the Department of Mysteries battle LV was having to lay a bit low and move carefully.

It is quite possible that LV was doing stuff behind the scenes, but story-wise we were focused on the Ministry of Magic's doings and Harry's dreams because that's what *Harry* knew and was focused with. The Order hasn't told him everything... and thus, hasn't told us everything. I think we'll have to wait. Now that the matter's been blown wide-open, LV's inner circle is all but decimated, and he's lost the most obvious way of finding out about the prophecy, I think that both LV will become more overt with his actions, and that Harry will get more news about any going-ons. LV seemed mostly concerned at first with gathering as many old allies back to himself as possible, and trying to get information about Harry (who he likely perceives to be his biggest threat).

Besides, considering the title of the next book, and the fact that Rowling has claimed that things will tie back into some parts of Chamber of Secrets somehow, blood status probably will gain new prominence.

Then there's a host of important questions and characters...

Neville has been gaining in abilities throughout the books, and he has a status as the other prophecy possibility. I think he'll become very relevant as time goes on.

I think Luna may be important as well, because I don't think Rowling would have created her just to toss her aside so quickly. True, she served a purpose in Book 5 due to her father running the Quibbler, and to fighting at the DOM, but I still think she has more relevance left in her. Plus she provides an interesting contrast to Hermione.

Speaking of new characters, Tonks is even more of a puzzle... she's a new character in the "good guy inner circle", but she just seems like a pair of extra hands right now. (And clutzy hands, at that.) I don't know if Tonks herself will be important, but that innate power of hers very likely will, I suspect.

Then there's Lupin... a main character with a lot of questions surrounding him.  I mean, we get the impression from the Marauder's Map, Snape's Pensieve, and other tales, that the four "Marauders" were pretty close. Yet in PoA, Sirius says that he (and possibly James, too, it's implied I think) thought Lupin was the spy/traitor. What happened there? Was it just LV causing dissension in the ranks and placing Peter in good position? Was it something to do with Lily? (I think Lupin had feelings for her, personally...) Something else entirely? And what was Lupin doing in those 12 years between the Potters' deaths and showing up on the Hogwarts train as the new DADA professor? Inquiring minds want to know! I think there's more to him than just being the voice of reason and moral support.

Snape, of course, is a big enigma. There's a lot of questions surrounding him... why did he become a Death Eater? Why did he leave them and become a spy for the "good guys"? Was he (is he) in fact a double agent? Why does Dumbledore trust Snape, and why won't he let Snape teach DADA classes regularly? What sort of tasks is Snape doing for the Order now? I think that all might be important.

Sure, it's pretty obvious that Dumbledore is important. But I'm curious at the fact that everyone claims Dumbledore is the only wizard LV was ever afraid of. Is it true? If so, why? Simply because Dumbledore is a powerful wizard, or is it deeper than that? And is Dumbledore the reason why Hogwarts was never touched during LV's first "reign of terror"?

What's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her? She knows more than she's let on, obviously.

What is in that locked door in the DOM? (I have my theory, which is the same theory most people seem to have.) Whatever it is, I think it will be important to Harry and the battle ahead.

Speaking of the battle, what form will the "final confrontation" take? I don't think it will be a simple direct "Battle of the Wands". Aside from the fact that LV and Harry can't battle directly with their wands, Harry obviously doesn't like the idea of killing anyone, even LV. I think that locked door power will have something to do with it.

Considering what I think that power is, I'm reminded of the saying that I believe goes "The best way to defeat an enemy is to make him your friend." Oh, now, I don't think LV will ever turn good... even as a teenager he was corrupted, and if LV was given the chance for full redemption, he wouldn't take it. But is there any redemption at all for Tom Riddle (and Peter)? Will Harry necessarily defeat LV by killing him?

(cough) OK, I guess that was more than two cents.

Peace & Luv, Liz

S
 P
   O
      I
        L
          E
            R
              S

QuoteAt any rate... in regards to LV, I think Fatali and Shadow, you're forgetting that for one, we see all the happenings in the books from almost entirely Harry's POV

Fair enough, but a 'good' bad guy should be distinguishable from a standard archtypical bad guy even in a brief five minute confrontation. Lucius, for instance, has had about as much 'air-time' as LV and far less background yet he seems the more interesting and complex of the two. My vote stands... Lucius should betray LV and become the main bad guy.

QuoteBesides, considering the title of the next book,

Whats the title?

QuoteNeville has been gaining in abilities throughout the books, and he has a status as the other prophecy possibility. I think he'll become very relevant as time goes on.

The question is, relevant in what way... According to the prophecy, Neville cant possibly be LV's opposite number. If Snape ever becomes a traitor, Neville with his new-found ability could defeat him in combat for a bit of irony...
To be honest, I think Neville's most important characteristic isnt that he was 'prophecy material' but that out of all the others, hes the only one that had his parents brutally tortured. From a psychological perspective, this makes him unique.

QuoteI think Luna may be important as well, because I don't think Rowling would have created her just to toss her aside so quickly. True, she served a purpose in Book 5 due to her father running the Quibbler

Im not so sure. She's interesting and 'different,' so JK will probably keep her around... but as a background character, no more.

QuoteTonks is even more of a puzzle... she's a new character in the "good guy inner circle", but she just seems like a pair of extra hands right now.

Again, I doubt she'll ever play more of a role than a minor one. You've got to remember, not every character that's named in a novel has some deep, important role... And since most of the story is about Harry's development... its quite possible Tonk's role wont be anymore than a sweet, silly outside support. (which, on its own terms, is quite important)

QuoteThen there's Lupin...

Youve said about as much as any of us can say on the matter. I say he's a good guy with a checkered past... The fun comes into play when we examine the checkers...

QuoteSnape, of course, is a big enigma. There's a lot of questions surrounding him... why did he become a Death Eater? Why did he leave them and become a spy for the "good guys"? Was he (is he) in fact a double agent?

Snape is a tough one... In the end, I think he'll turn out to be loyal to Dumbledoor/Harry... He's a good example of redemption and an even better example of how we can misjudge someone... I think Harry has some serious apologizing to do to Snape.
And... I think, no one is more qualified to lead the Order than he is, if Dumbledoor were to die... Now, that would be an interesting twist.

QuoteSure, it's pretty obvious that Dumbledore is important. But I'm curious at the fact that everyone claims Dumbledore is the only wizard LV was ever afraid of. Is it true? If so, why? Simply because Dumbledore is a powerful wizard, or is it deeper than that?

You know... I dont think LV fears him because he's powerful. Oh, he is that too, but more importantly, he has an incredible talent for perception... He knew what LV was up to from day one... That makes him very formidible... His role towards Harry as guide / guardian / positive support is, perhaps, the most important role he plays. Take away Gandalf, and the Fellowship despairs. The same would apply to Dumbledoor.

QuoteWhat's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her?

Good question. JK could take her in a number of different directions. Im not even going to begin to speculate.

QuoteWhat is in that locked door in the DOM?

My memory is a little fuzzy on this... What door?

QuoteWill Harry necessarily defeat LV by killing him?

No idea... but if prophecy is true, LV will die in the conflict... (or else his opposite number will)

Alright... Im done dissecting...

*waits for Jeysie to post her next 20 page essay*  8)

CONTINUING SPOILER
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

Quote from: Jeysie on October 01, 2004, 08:12:50 AM


What's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her? She knows more than she's let on, obviously.

We need to remember that Lily was Petunia's sister.  Lily went home every summer and that's how Petunia learned about witches, wizards, and the Wizarding World.  How much she learned, we don't know.  But she knew about Dementors.  And how often will a witch or wizard tell their Muggle family about Dementors just in passing?  

Also, I believe in Book 5 Dumbledore explained WHY Harry has to go to the Dursley's each summer, even if it's just for a little while.  And I believe that this is what the Howler was about.  I don't remember what it said exactly, but I think that's what Dumbledore was referring to.  

Now the question is...WHY does Petunia care??  From the previous books, it seems pretty clear that the Dursley's hate Harry.  Does Petunia actually love Harry in some way...even if it's just because he's her sister's son?  I know there's TONS more I could add to this because my mind's going into a hundred different scenerios...but I'll let you guys respond :P

Possibly she knows the consequences of Harry's demise. Her life might be directly linked to his in some weird way.

yay discussion has started proper!

Ok well lots of things I was going to say has already been bought up by Jeysie so I'll just state whats left.

I think theres actually alot of reasons to be found for LV's evilness in Chamber of secrets that will be highlighted in Book 6 (Title: The half Blood Prince). Also remember that LV is actually not a pureblood  and was bought up by his father (Lol im not 100% of this my mind may be playing tricks) who was a muggle. So far I don't think much has been said about his mother...possibly more reasons hiding there?

Ok the title of the next book. JK has already said that the half blood prince is not harry or LV. But what she has also been saying is that the identity has already been raised in Chamber of Secrets but we probably wouldn't think of the person (Got all this from her personal site btw).

roffle now the rest of the stuff i was going to say has gone out my head  >:( I shall post more when it returns!

Maybe its the janitor, Angus Fitch (or whatever his name was.)  IIRC they did talk about him a lot in Chamberr of Secrets.  Didn't they find out he couldn't do magic in that one?

Quote from: FataliOmega on October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AM
S
 P
   O
      I
        L
          E
            R
              S

Fair enough, but a 'good' bad guy should be distinguishable from a standard archtypical bad guy even in a brief five minute confrontation. Lucius, for instance, has had about as much 'air-time' as LV and far less background yet he seems the more interesting and complex of the two. My vote stands... Lucius should betray LV and become the main bad guy.

So far, we've seen two things from LV that might be part of his downfall:

One, he seems to prefer having other people do his dirty work for him. Indeed, he seems to have an emotional need to have devoted followers, which might stem from his upbringing, I'd guess.

Two, as Dumbledore stated, I think, LV lets his arrogance get in the way of his intelligence, and has a tendency to overlook small details as "unimportant".

I will say I like the idea of Lucius overthrowing LV.

Quote from: FataliOmega on October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AMIm not so sure. She's interesting and 'different,' so JK will probably keep her around... but as a background character, no more.

Why bother introducing her into Harry's "inner circle", then? She could have simply been used to facilitate Harry's Quibbler article, then relegated to the background like the rest of the DA. Instead, she "gets" to go to the DOM battle.

Quote from: FataliOmega on October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AMAgain, I doubt she'll ever play more of a role than a minor one. You've got to remember, not every character that's named in a novel has some deep, important role... And since most of the story is about Harry's development... its quite possible Tonk's role wont be anymore than a sweet, silly outside support. (which, on its own terms, is quite important)

Well, I'm not sure Tonks herself is important, as I said... I'm more curious as to why Rowling would go to the trouble of establishing the Metamorphagus power, especially since it's unlearnable.

Quote from: FataliOmega on October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AM

QuoteWhat is in that locked door in the DOM?

My memory is a little fuzzy on this... What door?

There's a locked door where in the DOM there is a room that "has a force more wonderful and terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It's also the most mysterious. This power Harry possesses in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all."

Quote from: FataliOmega on October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AM*waits for Jeysie to post her next 20 page essay*  8)

Nah, I said most of it already. Although, I did manage to forget a couple things...

Percy! Unfortunately for the Weasleys, I think Percy is being a git completely of his own accord. I just wonder how far he'll take it. He's a pure-blood, he's a stickler for "just following orders", and he can be tricked.

And there was something else I forgot, but I have managed to promptly forget it again. Oops.

Koko: What I meant was, I think Dumbledore's holding something over her head, and I'm curious as to what it is. I'm not willing to give Petunia enough benefit of a doubt to think she'd stick her neck in harm's way solely out of familial love.

Renfrew: Filch is a Squib... meaning he has magical parents, but no powers himself. I'm not certain that there's anything more to Filch than what we've already seen of him, though.

Peace & Luv, Liz

My best guess is that the half Blood Prince turns out to be Draco Malfoy... After all, didnt Hagred say that theres not a wizard out there who wasnt half blood, or less...? And Draco has got all the arrogance and the 'high and mighty' attitude that a prince would ever need! Fatali has spoken.  ;)

Otay, my brain cells bumped together and reproduced the second point I wanted to make.

Is there any major significance to the fact that LV chose to go after Harry and not Neville? It's possible he intended to kill them both, but he still went after Harry first. I personally would choose to kill the person I found to be the biggest threat first.

Also, in Harry's Dementor flashbacks, he hears LV telling Lily that she doesn't have to die, if she steps aside and lets him kill Harry. Just simple villian posturing for the sake of making his task easier, or something deeper?

As for who the Half-Blood Prince is... my pet pie-in-the-sky theory is Snape. :D But the idea of Draco is interesting. I'm reminded of an online friend of mine complaining that so far we haven't gotten any Slytherin characters who aren't just nothing but common bullies.

Oh, and I wonder if Hufflepuff will ever have more significance in things. There might as well be three Hogwarts houses, for all that Hufflepuff is mentioned! Are they going to be the near-invisible house throughout the rest of the series?

Peace & Luv, Liz

*Sees all the spoiler warnings*

*Runs the heck out of the thread*

Definately not the place for those who are yet to read all the books and form a solid opinion of them :o

Any idea when book 6 will come out --- rumors perhaps  -- :>

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
A
M
A
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
In response to Jeysie's post:

I think Hufflepuff will have something to do with the books later on. I think there's very little that doesn't have to do with anything else...for instance, Rowling has said that Chamber of Secrets really gives you clues as to what will be going on later, and that it is very important. (Though I've read it twice since then and can't think why). Wasn't Cedric Diggory from Hufflepuff?

Maybe it will be that the Hufflepuffs somehow come out as champions in the end.

-Rune

P.S. On the Harry Potter site I was sorted into Hufflepuff first...then Slytherin when I changed my mind and said I'd keep the gold. >:)

Some interesting theories you lot are throwing around here (good on you Jeysie, I love you theories of life and the universe and now, Harry Potter!)  ;)

Are you becoming more interested in the HP books now?? :P

Sorry, stating HP theories may be interesting but the works simply are not dark enough.

lol...ok ;D

*waits for books 6 and 7!*

"lol...ok  ;D"

What was so funny? Are my dark tastes abnormal or something?  ;)

I don't know...but I find books 4 and 5 moving to being pretty dark.  Guess we just have different tastes in what we read and what we consider dark. :P

Hmm, true. My idea of dark are things that are steeped into the truly "black," about hidious evil's and the merciless acts they perpetrate. The good guys almost never win and if they do scape away with something, they will have to have suffered immensly in the process for relatively little gain. And before you say "but no such book exists," you are wrong. This is the stuff I write!

Lessee...

E
v
e
n

M
o
r
e

S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
!

Rune: Yeah, Cedric was in Hufflepuff. Poor Cedric... I actually got almost a little teary-eyed at the end of GoF when Dumbledore was giving his speech. I never cry at books, so that's as close as it gets! (No, I didn't get weepy-eyed at the end of OotP... I never liked Sirius a great deal, truth be told.)

Hufflepuff reminds me of the Minbari Worker Caste from Babylon 5... You have the brave soldier/adventurer types of Gryffindor, the power-hungry leader/bureaucrat types of Slytherin, and the scientist/engineer types of Ravenclaw. What's left? The worker/service/support types... i. e. Hufflepuff!

And which Harry Potter site was that, Rune? I keep getting sorted into Hufflepuff in quizzes myself... I might be brainy enough to get into Ravenclaw, but I value loyalty and hard work a little more. I'm not ambitious nor cunning enough to be in Slytherin... and I'm not brave and adventurous in a general sense to be in Gryffindor... only when people (or the truth) need protecting.

Speaking of houses... I always was rather curious as to how Peter ended up in Gryffindor... he doesn't seem very brave or adventurous, does he? I also saw a site that made a (reasonable, I think) claim that Percy would have been better suited to Slytherin...

Shadow: You like my theories? (blush) Of course, we both like Lupin, so we must be on at least one similar wavelength...

I think you're on your own about the darkness thing, though. ;) I've certainly read and seen darker works... Babylon 5, Dark City, and such... but even Babylon 5 isn't as dark as the stuff you paint. Besides, I watch/read to escape... and while I'm too steeped in reality to like most fluffy stuff, I like my entertainment to have some light at the end of the tunnel. Besides, c'mon, even Stephen King loves the Harry Potter books! ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Quote from: Jeysie on October 02, 2004, 05:20:35 PM
Lessee...

E
v
e
n

M
o
r
e

S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
!

Rune: Yeah, Cedric was in Hufflepuff. Poor Cedric... I actually got almost a little teary-eyed at the end of GoF when Dumbledore was giving his speech. I never cry at books, so that's as close as it gets! (No, I didn't get weepy-eyed at the end of OotP... I never liked Sirius a great deal, truth be told.)

I cry too easily at books, stories etc.  (I don't like others seeing me crying though. lol) Actually, it was the main site...http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com where I was sorted; I went to enroll in Hogwarts...I'm not sure what I did differenetly this time, but I was sorted into Ravenclaw ;)  

<modified post slightly when I remembered somethin'>

Actually probably cause I said I would save the money instead of spend it.

I think maybe Pettrigrew was sorted into Griffindor because he wanted to be.  I mean that's what happened to Harry...the sorting hat thought he might be good in Slytherin but he wanted to be in Griffindor more than anything else, so that's where he ended up.  I wonder if its possible that James, Sirius and Moody(who's name I can't remember) were sorted first and Pettigrew had already attached himself to them, kinda like Ron and Harry were friends from the first.  Pettrigew must have been hard to place...he had Slytherin qualities but was basically a coward; the most he could have been there was a cronie like Crabbe and Goyle, but maybe if he could get out of that in Griffindor he would become better and at least useful in society.

Also..maybe he started out ok and changed.  I'm sure that's happened before with the sorting hat...people change all the time. I mean, Snape I believe was Slytherin (not really sure); however, I don't think Snape is really all that bad...sure a little on the anti-social side with his greasy hair and Potter-hating tendencies, but that was explained anyways.  I think the characters tend to change and maybe if they are sorted in the first place...that's only an estimate of how they will be in the future.

Percy was a Griffindor, though maybe he should have been in Ravenclaw (see the pot bottom thickness) or at most Slythering.  And I'm not sure Rowling ever told us what house Tom Riddle was actually sorted into to begin with.  He looked like he was good at fooling people, so it might have been Griffindor.

Rune

I'm actually wondering if Rowling's secret door has been opened since the last time I saw it...after many puzzles (which I didn't solve of course lol) I opened a safe and got a slip of paper out of it.  Has it been opened since?

(confused look)

I *know* I made a reply late last night concerning results from an alternate "sorting hat" quiz, and detailing the fact that I get emotional from movies and TV shows, but seldom books. It wasn't remotely inappropriate, though perhaps half off-topic. Was there a database hiccup? The forum is acting a little odd this morning.

Anyhoo.

O
b
l
i
g
a
t
o
r
y

S
p
a
c
e

You make an interesting point about Peter. After all, Neville doesn't start out very brave or confident, but after some exposure to Harry & Co., he finds depths he didn't know he had within him, but the Sorting Hat obviously did. Perhaps Peter did have Gryffindor qualities lurking within... unfortunately, if we are to consider Snape's Pensieve memory to be typical, the "Marauders" weren't the greatest of role models. (ponders) I don't think Peter is inherently evil/a creep... just a fellow whose weaknesses went very wrong.

Oh, and you meant Moony, who is Lupin. :)

As for Snape being in Slytherin, there's nothing that says Slytherins automatically become evil. It's simply that the sort of qualities that Slytherin seems to prefer are more likely to incline a person to be evil... however, there's no guarantee they will be. I wasn't just looking to justify why Percy is being a git, honest. ;)

And Tom Riddle is the Heir of Slytherin... hmm, but did they ever specify what house he was in? I can't remember off-hand.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Quote from: Jeysie on October 03, 2004, 08:52:58 AM
(confused look)

I *know* I made a reply late last night concerning results from an alternate "sorting hat" quiz, and detailing the fact that I get emotional from movies and TV shows, but seldom books.

It got merged with (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?action=display;board=37;threadid=1098;start=600#msg80189) the Official Quiz Thread. :P

From what I know, the hat places you were you decide you belong. (usually subconsciously). For instance, if Draco, with all of his arrogant qualities, mental really wanted to be in Gryffindor, the hat wouldve put him there. The personality qualities and traits are usually a prime factor on the persons choice... not their actual placement. Anyway, thats how I view it.

I always thought the solution Delenn came up with for the new Grey Council was a little silly. Power does have a tendency to corrupt anyone, regardless of caste... Giving the Worker Caste a large majority would just make them as arrogant as the religious/warrior castes... Instead of wars for pride or wars for morality, wouldnt it be wars for money and gain? I think JMS's next series should deal with an Imperialistic, Border Conquering, Minbar.  :P

Quote from: Jeysie on October 03, 2004, 08:52:58 AM
And Tom Riddle is the Heir of Slytherin... hmm, but did they ever specify what house he was in? I can't remember off-hand.

Peace & Luv, Liz

I don't think Tom Riddle is actually although (as usual) I could be mistaken. I think i read something on JK's site saying that he wasn't Salazar (omg just realised the name! You're famous Say!) Slytherin's heir...i shall have a little look sometime today adn see if i can find some of teh stuff ive been quoting from there.

Isnt Riddle a younger version of LV? If so, Im pretty certain it mentions several times in the 1st book that all the 'really evil' wizards come from Slytherin... I somehow doubt they'd be saying that if LV was from, say, Hufflepuff. It just doesnt make much sense.  :P

Fatali: That's another good thought, on the Sorting Hat. I like it.

Alex: Well, there's this... (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/rumours_view.cfm?id=3)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Ahhhhh I knew there was a sectionn saying about the last remaining heir and the word "not" included. Lol i guess I should have known that seeing as only the heir can open the chamber of secrets *doi*.

I stand corrected :D

Ok guys.  Just wanted to let you know that my HP notes are completely typed out.  PM me if you want them!  I'll send them via email or MSN (or AOL or Yahoo, for those who prefer those).

They're quite good notes... I've been boring Koko on MSN with all the long-winded thoughts they've been sparking into my brain. ;D

Peace & Luv, Liz

I'm glad you've been enjoying them Jeysie! :D

And thank you for letting me blather on to you, Koko! Maybe once you pass the notes around to everyone we'll get more blather here in this thread. I love anything that gets my brain cells going. ;D

And it occurred to me I'm supposed to be going to bed, but I wanted to try and fix my connection before doing so, and forum posting seemed a good way to test things... (slinks off)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Aw, c'mon... don't tell me nobody else has read Koko's notes! ;D I was hoping to hear someone other than me blather on... :P We could at least say... I dunno... speculate about who will live and who will die! Morbid, just the way I like it!

l
i
k
e

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
!

One thing I will blather on about... I can't believe I managed to miss Fatali's notion that Snape should be the leader of the Order if Dumbledore bites it.

I find this idea... odd, to say the least. Oh, definitely Snape has the raw knowledge for it. He's intelligent, well versed in a number of different magic skills (I doubt he's *just* a Potions Master and an Occulmens/Legilimens), and he's got plenty of first-hand experience with LV and Death Eaters and Dark Magic, etc.

But the man's people skills (whether due to inherent personality flaws or conscious affectation remains to be seen) are completely atrocious. He is condescending, unrepentantly biased, arrogant and bullying. He is prone to be reckless, is quick to make assumptions, holds grudges, and can be too blunt. Plus there's the small fact that nobody in the Order seems to like him much. Now, you don't have to be liked to be a leader, and Snape's personality to me lends him to a role of leading through fear and intimidation anyway. But such a method of ruling strikes me as unstable in the long run, plus it's going to be hard to get a group of generally decent people to stand for that sort of treatment for long.

Finally, there's the fact that Snape is an almost non-existent presence at the Order headquarters. It could be that in future books we'll learn that Snape's abrasive personality is all or mostly an act, that he's been doing sweepingly heroic things for Dumbledore, and he'll step in and be a good authorative presence. But considering our glimpses into Snape's pensieve, I don't think the first and last are true at least.

Now, I can see Snape as a major advisor... the one who plays Devil's Advocate and tells the leader what he needs to hear and points out all the holes in their plans, etc. But leader? No way. Not unless we get a very different Snape in books 6 & 7 than we have so far.

I think we should look at the people in the Order so far who seem to have shown a noticably authorative/commanding presence. Off the top of my head, I'd name these people to be Molly, Moody, and Lupin.

Personally, I think having Molly as a part of the Order is a really dumb idea. In fact, having any of the Weasleys other than Arthur, Bill and Charlie in the Order strikes me as being desperate for followers on Dumbledore's part, but I digress.

The woman is a housewife. Her role is to look after the children, cook, clean, and generally keep her house in order. She smothers people with love, mollycoddles them, and tries to protect and block them off from hurt and danger.

That's not to say that Molly could never be anything but a housewife... she is a talented witch and a strong personality. Just that she chose the main role of housewife, and seems content doing it. I have no doubt she could fight, and quite well, but only if pushed to do so to protect others. Or rather, to protect her family and loved ones... the rest of the world can fend for itself as long as her brood is safe. Her worst fear is her loved ones dying... she tries to block Harry & Co from getting much needed information in order to try to protect them... no, as domineering a personality as Molly is, she'd make a lousy leader. She'd lack the ability to objectively choose who's expendable and who isn't, be ruthless and keep her head in an emergency, and know when to take risks, when to cut your losses and run, and when to leave others behind for the greater good.

So then we have Moody. He strikes me as being a good tactician, is well-versed in chasing down "evil-doers", and is paranoid enough to think about all angles and threats. But he's also a bit *too* paranoid... just as it's not good to never realize there's something hiding in that shadow, it's also not productive to think there's something lurking in *every* shadow. Plus... I get the feeling that at least some of the other Order members humor him. ("Better wizards than you have lost buttocks, you know!" "Who d'you know who's lost a buttock?") Hard to be a leader if people don't take you entirely seriously. Moody strikes me as possibly more of a "front-line general" type, maybe.

So that leaves Lupin. The man is intelligent, quick-thinking, manipulative, can be a cold-blooded killer if necessary, and has the ability to command quiet respect and obedience from kids and adults alike. Even Molly and Sirius, probably the two most volatile personalities we encounter in the Order, can be reined in by him (albeit with Molly being more relucant about it). He's mentioned in several places as being "one of the best DADA teachers" at Hogwarts. Granted, the guy doesn't exactly have very challenging competition for the title, but still... the only other adult we've met in Harry's times who was competent at teaching DADA was a Polyjuiced DE. I'd like to think that Lupin has a fair amount of knowledge about the Dark Arts... although how he got that knowledge is a potentially interesting question.

Of course, Lupin has his faults too... he tends to cut people too much slack at times, he is indisposed on a regular basis, which might possibly occur at bad times, and on the rare occasions he doesn't think things completely through he can make some dumb mistakes. Then there's the fact that he was conspicuously absent during almost the entire DOM battle... what, was he waiting for an engraved invitation?

In any case, if I were going to make a case for someone being the Order's second-in-command, I'd pick Lupin or Moody, not Snape. But I'm always willing to be proven wrong! Not to mention the fact that I know jack-all about running a military organization in specific anyway... and prefer to keep it that way, at least in the sense of personal experience. :P

(Dammit, why do these always turn out so long? :P )

Peace & Luv, Liz

W O A H

Way to get the convo started again Liz!

OK! SPOILERAGEEEEEEE (probably)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Snape - I can't see him being a leader either. Way to many personal vendettas against wizarding folk (Harry and Lupin being the obvious ones, I wonder who else bullied him at school?) and he's just not a person people would easily trust. TBH I've never really understood quite WHY Dumbleydorrrr (lol sorry just been reading GoF :D) has such major trust in him. Maybe its something we find out in the next book..

Lupin - No No No. He's unavailable one day of the month (probably more for that matter) if he hasn't taken his potion and is constantly described as looking tired and "old". Not a very convincing leader if you ask me.

Molly - Now I could see her being a leader for some reason. Maybe its just Julie Walters ego invading my thoughts but also remember she was in the order before she became the uber housewife so she must have made some kind of input then. Obviously as you say Liz shes blinded by love and really stupid in some cases but if one of herchildren were to be killed off *cough* PERCY *cough* she could be the next Serial mom!

My candidate for leader...Mconagall(spl?)! She just kicks ass in every area of the books and shes got the skills to be a really good leader as well as relevant experience as leader of a house.

Hmmmm once again there was more I wanted to add but I cant think of owt now :'(

o
b
l
i
g
a
t
o
r
y

s
p
a
c
e

Alex: I'm a little confuzzled by what you mean by "was in the order before she became the uber housewife". If we go by Moody's picture, she and Arthur weren't in the original Order.

(thinks) If we go by Rowling's FAQ comments about the Weasley kids' and Snape's ages, Molly and Arthur were busy raising baby/toddler Bill, Charlie, (and maybe Percy) while the "Marauders", Lily, Snape, etc. were attending Hogwarts as kids. Maybe they decided that being active participants in the War then was a bad idea with little rugrats running around the house.

I like the idea about McGonagall. I've always felt that if something happened to Dumbledore, she would at least be a great candidate to step in as Hogwarts Headmaster. (Headmistress?)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Ahhhh so they weren't in the picture. I must have invented it in my head as I've just started to read OftP last night.

Agh the wait for the next book has sudenly become more agonising as Rowling releases more and more hints of whats to come. The latest is that another main character dies in book 6...random guesses anyone? Personally I have a hunch it may be Fudge. If you want to cause widespread panic kill off the minister of magic (no matter how incompetant he is) although I'm not so sure if he'll still be the minister in book 6 after the whole "voldemort is not alive" ordeal.

Not another main character :'(  The good thing is that we know it's not Harry yet.  He has to appear in the seventh book! :P

Well, Rowling says there's going to be a new Minister no matter what... (grin)

I can guess who *won't* die in Book 6... Rowling says Lupin will play an important role in Book 7, and I suspect the Trio and Peter will survive as well. That leaves plenty of other possibilities, however...

Peace & Luv, Liz

(pokes) Here's something else to stimulate discussion... the door on Rowling's site can be opened today!

Peace & Luv, Liz

Poo...it didn't open for me :(

Good things come to those who wait. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz

I can't open it either :'(

I hope it wasnt limited to "today" as in UK 00:00-23:69 as I tried just after 12 :/ agh I hope not! Let me know if you got in Jeysie!

I did get in... If you sit there and stare at the door long enough, you might have a revelation. (hint, nudge)

Peace & Luv, Liz

only have to wait a little while *snort* ::)

 :o :o :o

(With the light on or off?)

either way...

JKR's door is open yet again... with a wicked good message. W00t! Good luck!

Peace & Luv, Liz

*sigh* Just tried getting in.  Is it the same way as last time?  If so, then I think maybe the door's been closed by the time I got on...

It's still open, and it's a different way than last time. Hint: Start by checking out the mirror.

Although truth be told, solving the door puzzle at this point is just for fun, since the happy news within is likely plastered everywhere HP-related. ;D

Peace & Luv, Liz

AHHHHHHH!

*runs to website*

OK. I've decided to get out a few days' worth of perviness in one go.

Now. Wizarding pictures *move*, right? So... what must Wizardly "girlie magazine" pictures be like? (Ya know, like Playboy-type stuff) I mean, think about it.  :flirt:

Or don't think about it, if the case may be. (runs before she gets a scolding from Koko)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Wicked! They've released images of both the American and British versions of the Half-Blood Prince cover (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/week_2005_03_06.html)!

Peace & Luv, Liz

Awesomeness!  *drools*  When's it coming out again?  How long do we have to wait?? :(

July 16th.

Heh. I do wish it wasn't so long... not only because I can't wait to read it, but because it kinda sucks that the year will be half-over by then! (Meaning that ordinarily I don't want the year to go by quickly, because then I don't get to enjoy things as much.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yay! Half-Blood Prince is out! Yeah, I definitely went at midnight...got home around 1:00 after going to two different bookstores. I got my copy and then a friend I went with wanted to use a giftcard for her book, that was at a second store. Good thing the stores were almost right across the street from each other. For mine, after getting my voucher, I was in line for about five minutes (even though I was towards the end of the line at the other end of the store). For her's, we were in line for ten minutes and hadn't moved...she decided she'd go back on another day.

Any other Harry Potter stories?

I dropped by the local bookstore at midnight and picked mine up. I just finished it half an hour ago. It is very good. I might even say that it is the best.

I didn't really like it. :-\ It was a little too hectic for me. And there was too much making out. :P

in THAT case, maybe i should read it too XD

Well you'd have to read the first 5 books for it to really have its full effect. Happy reading. ;)

...one second thought  :P

IIRC, there were only a little over 800 pages in the biggest one. ::)

............. there´s a movie(s) right?   :P

Only 3. Besides, you'd still have to read the books for it to really have any meaning. :P

i lead a meaningless life so it shouldn´t be any problem ;B

Some of the making out was kind of awkward.

awkward? how so?

*why do i have a feeling that i shouldn't have made that question*  ;B

??? Does anyone know who dies, i dont want to give out spoilers but i know who it is. ;D

:no: I never read the books, i only watch the Movies ::)

:sneaky: I went to the store and flipped through the book to the last page, then i read a bit there and got a bit sad when i found out who it is. :'(

spoiler? Well i do plan to watch the movies so i don´t think it would be a good idea to know  :)

as for reading the books, thats madness XD
j/k  ;)

Don't worry, the books are really quick reads. I finished the 900 page one in two days, and I am almost done with the new one (which disappoiningly, is smaller than the last!  >:() ).

My least favorite HP is the fifth one. IT STANK  :devil: . I didn't like how Harry was all depressed and "hormonal"...not all teens have grumpy mood swings ya know...

450 pages a day  :o

XD

I'm not much of a reader but if i find a book really interresting the number of pages doesn´t really matter :D

maybe i should take a look at these books, who knows  ;)

I think you should! They're great! I'll start the new one as soon as I'm done with "Wicked" and Mom's done with Harry Potter. (She took it today to start it)

How many books are there in the series?

At the moment, there are 6, there's one more to come. And what's so surprising about 450 pages a day? I read the new one (652 pages) in a little under 7 hours. Maybe it's just me, but I prefered the hormonal Harry in the 5th book to the Harry in the 6th book. He's changed a lot and I don't really like it as much. Then again, I didn't like the 5th book when it came out either. Maybe it'll grow on me. I'm sure I'll like it more on my second read at least.

It probably will but don´t go around trying to throw magic at people ;P

XD

Well, you also have to remember everything Harry has and is going through. I mean, if you've got a man trying to kill you and is killing your friends and family in the process, I'd be a little paranoid and aggitated too. Remember, I haven't read the book yet, so no spoilers. I'm just working on the impression I got from the other books.

people are trying to kill him? O.O  :o

maybe being a wizard isn´t such a good idea :P

Sigh  :'(

I think I've liked this one the most, despite it being pretty centred around a certain thing. I think tbh that the way JK is portraying harry is right, he's gone from being a rather timid 1st year through to the angry angry boy in the 5th book and now...I just get the idea he's bored of all the crap now and is getting on with things the way he thinks he should. Yes he's still totally one minded about snape/malfoy/voldemort but if she changed that now it also wouldnt be very in character also.

Roll on 2007/8, i know its going to kick serious ass.

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on July 18, 2005, 04:10:13 AM
Roll on 2007/8, i know its going to kick serious tail.

Is that when the next one coming out??

Unless some one wacks him over the head  ::)

How much do these books cost anywho?  :P

lol...I paid just over four dollars for the book...but that's because I had a gift card with about $13 on it. Right now, I think it's priced around $20.

The RRP is £16.99 here but near enough everywhere is offering it sub-£10. I got mine for £7.97 which is pretty bargainous in my eyes :D

Oh and its a her  ;D

Finished "HP and the Half-Blood Prince" early this morning. The first one and this one are my favorites. In this one, JK Rowling brings the right amount of humor, sanity, and adventure into the storyline, making it engaging and not painful to read. However there were some blush moments when Ron makes out with a girl... :gossip:

Quote from: Drunken Chinchilla on July 18, 2005, 11:02:54 AM
Oh and its a her  ;D

You do know some people haven't read the book yet, right? Of course you know...I've told you I haven't started it!

I havn't read it either! *kicks Alex* ;P

I think he was talking about how the author is a her since Raf was talking about whacking "him" in the head.

Even so, I will never pass on the chance to give Alex a good kick ;P

Quote from: Rosella on July 19, 2005, 10:04:35 AM
I think he was talking about how the author is a her since Raf was talking about whacking "him" in the head.

*nods head*

*phew* thanks...was afraid it was a hint towards a spoiler.

You better read it soon, because I was never any good at holding in information that others did not have. ;)

Good thing that I finished it last night, huh? But why say anything about spoilers...who knows how many people read the forum who haven't read the book yet.

Quote from: Rosella on July 19, 2005, 10:04:35 AM
I think he was talking about how the author is a her since Raf was talking about whacking "him" in the head.

Actually i was referring to the character :P

I finished reading Half Blood Prince a couple of days after its release, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Once again J.K. Rowling delivers! I just wish that the next one would come out sooner, but if six fantastic books are any indication, it will definitely be worth the wait. At least we have the fourth movie to look forward to in November.