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The Royal Archives => General => The Silver Age => Artwork => Topic started by: erikparkin on August 12, 2005, 12:44:54 PM

Title: King Graham Question
Post by: erikparkin on August 12, 2005, 12:44:54 PM
Hi Everybody! This is Erik again.  I have a king graham plot question I was looking at your screenshots very cool looking by the way, I noticed that in your screens he looks like he did in kq5, but in kq8 before he gets turned to stone he looks much older then that. Way to old to be goinng on an  adventure Am I just seeing things or is your story going to account for that. For instance, is he going to get a magic fountain to get his youth back? Or maybe discover the kings quest version of viagra?

I don't know if this is a spoiler so if you feel you can't answer this for some reason I'd understand

keep up the good work

Erik Parkin
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 12, 2005, 01:36:38 PM
Idk, I think he looks the same in MOE as he did in V, except he cut his long hair to a short length, grew a mustach, his hair got a lil lighter and maybe he got a little bit chunkier. Look at his portrait in the main hall, it's the same one from KQ6. I doubt if years and years had passed since then the kingdom would've used like a 10 or 20 year old portrait of the king.┬  Just imagine him in his adventuring garb and hat and he'd look pretty much the same. the only thing I don't get though is when the mirror starts becoming screwed up he asks his minister "tell me, what does it reveal?" like he can't see it or something.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Jafar on August 12, 2005, 04:17:16 PM
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the only thing I don't get though is when the mirror starts becoming screwed up he asks his minister "tell me, what does it reveal?" like he can't see it or something.
The bad graphics were hurting his eyes. ;P
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: daventry on August 12, 2005, 06:39:14 PM
King Graham growing old and mysteriously becomes younger again, please explain. :)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Yonkey on August 13, 2005, 09:09:28 PM
This actually has more to do with art than plot, so I've moved the thread there.  :)

Basically, we based our King Graham model on a mixture of the KQ5 version of Graham, with a 3D version of Harrison Ford.  Originally, he looked a lot like Harrison and quite similar to the MoE portrait version.  However, he was revised more or less to the version you see of him in that wallpaper.

Graham isn't mysteriously young again.  In KQIX's storyline, we acknowledge that time has passed since KQ5 and MoE, but art-wise this is more or less the final look we decided for Graham, since most fans remember him in his "younger" form.

One could also argue that the KQIX Valanice looks much older than the KQ7 version....  Anyone have the MoE portrait version of her? ???
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 13, 2005, 10:12:40 PM
the MOE portrait is the same as the KQVI one...I'll try n find it for you...
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Cez on August 14, 2005, 08:20:43 AM
I'm feeling generous. Here's a close up of Graham as he looks in-game. Notice he isn't THAT young.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Warlock on August 14, 2005, 08:24:52 AM
Wow thanks CÚsar! Though I think Daventry/erikparkin have a point, he looks even younger to me in that one. But heck, I don't mind, if a surgeon can give you a facelift, just imagine what a wizard could do!┬  :suffer:
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Cez on August 14, 2005, 08:39:17 AM
really? darn...


When your cheeks skin starts to wrinkle, you are hitting old... :)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Rosedragon on August 14, 2005, 10:44:15 AM
I hate MOE, the graphics are ugly and blocky and King Graham looks much better in the previous games. But I like the idea of Graham wearing royal robes and garmetns, some nice clothes different from his usual red shirt and blue trousers and feathered hat. I drew a pic of Graham and Valanice at their "Renaissance" wedding, I was partly inspired by KQ2+, I thought Graham and Valanice's outifts in that one were a bit dull, so I spiced them up and gave them some fancier clothes. If you want to see the pic go to the fan art section, and click on more of my fanart, by Rosedragon. (More shameless self-promoting, eh?)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Rosella on August 14, 2005, 12:20:59 PM
Omg, you rule. :P

EDIT: Directed at both Rosedragon and Cesar. XD
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: koko_99_2001 on August 14, 2005, 02:54:02 PM
Thanks Cesar! ;D
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Farquhar on August 14, 2005, 03:00:30 PM
YAY  !!!
Another screenshot of Graham. ;D

Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Rosedragon on August 30, 2005, 03:59:21 PM
King Graham is the coolest adventure game character. Then again I think his daughter Rosella is cooler. But I really have not played that m,any games. Must play Space Quest and all QFG games and Leisure suit Larry and GK.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Storm on August 31, 2005, 02:05:22 PM
King Graham growing old and mysteriously becomes younger again, please explain. :)

No mystery about it...
MOE (and KQ2+) assume that several years passed between KQ7 and MOE, while according to the timeline (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/library/timeline/), KQ9 assumes it's only been 2 months. Even if you calculate from the last time we've actually seen Graham in KQ6 till the beginning of KQ9, that's only one year. Not enough time for him to grow that old :P
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: awesomeasapossum on September 16, 2005, 05:53:03 PM
Cool. I'm happy that you aren't going by a lot of the stuff in MoE [although I assume that the mask plays an important part (the last chapter is called eternities)] I remember looking at the timeline one time.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: JonStoll on September 26, 2005, 04:44:44 PM
Hi all, it's me, I know I never post, but I actually have a question. :P Yes, I know I should probably know this but.................have we even established exactly how old Graham is now? I mean, even if he's in his fifties, take a look at Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone, they're both almost sixty and still in great shape. Besides, If Graham has been adventuring his whole life and he lives in a "fantasy world" and has Val to keep after him, then I'm sure his metabolism and health would be quite efficient. Also, don't forget about the fruit he ate in KQ4, therefore, he could maintain his muscle mass and keep from gaining fat for years to come. In regards to his face, well, look at Harrison Ford now. Anyway just my input. 
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Yonkey on September 26, 2005, 05:05:27 PM
I don't think his age was ever mentioned in the games, so no one knows exactly.  But I'd estimate him to be in his early to mid 50's, based on how he looks in KQIX.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: zac353 on October 04, 2005, 09:48:52 PM
King Graham growing old and mysteriously becomes younger again, please explain. :)

The picture from KQ8 you got was from KQ2 VGA....  ???
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Rosedragon on January 09, 2006, 02:33:58 PM
I did some math a while back to figure out how old the KQ characters are. I'd say King Graham is in his early fifties, Queen Valanice would be a bit younger than him, so she'd be in her late forties, Alexander and Rosella would be about 20 or 21, and Connor is probably around 18. Another thing I hate about moe is that they never mention Alexander or Rosella in it.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: HavocWizard on May 01, 2006, 06:56:57 PM
No matter how old he gets, we can all agree that King Graham is still a badass.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Oldbushie on May 01, 2006, 08:27:58 PM
Indeed.  :D

*watches 80 year old Graham confuse ogres with his cane*
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: MangoMercury on May 04, 2006, 12:18:03 AM
"HEY YEH WHIPPERSNAPPERS!  GET OFF THE LAWN!  BACK IN MY DAY, I WAS A HIGHLY REGARDED ADVENTURER!  STUFF COSTS MORE THAN IT USED TO!"

And so on.  >_>;
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Deloria on May 05, 2006, 10:08:09 AM
ALthough, I don't really see why he cares, he does have the magic chest and all...:P
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: MangoMercury on May 05, 2006, 11:21:19 AM
Because his ungrateful grandkids stole it.  >_>;  Or he misplaced it.  Either way.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Deloria on May 05, 2006, 11:44:27 AM
Because his ungrateful grandkids stole it.  >_>;  Or he misplaced it.  Either way.
XD
It's a little early for grandkids..:P
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: MangoMercury on May 05, 2006, 12:06:23 PM
Well..  In that case I think he's going a bit in the noggin and just plain lost it ;)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Oldbushie on May 05, 2006, 09:02:32 PM
"Falanithe.. where are my teef?"
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: MangoMercury on May 06, 2006, 12:28:35 AM
LOL, exactly!

Graham will get old someday.  And when he does, we'll be right there, prolly not being..  As..  Old.  >_>;
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Deloria on May 06, 2006, 04:22:00 AM
I really really hope Graham lives through this one.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 01:09:02 PM
Ok here is pictures of graham from Kq6 and MoE, note the change in hair color. I'll try to get a picture from the cutscene to show his powder white hair as well.

Graham KQ6;
(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/8/8e/Graham.png)'


Graham MoE;

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/c/c1/GrahampaintingMoE.JPG)

As for age. Graham was 44 in the original timeline during the events of KQ6 and 7(He had been 19 in KQ1)

There is no way to know for sure how old he is in MoE. Just that the designers had designated him to be Old, and stripped his hair of color, and he looks more frail in the cutscenes.

Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Yonkey on August 12, 2006, 01:12:32 PM
Cool! ;D

Well, the TSL Graham's hair is actually darker than KQ6's.  I guess he started purchasing hair dye after MoE. ;-D
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
I guess hair dye, with and then putting highlights back into his hair to give it some long white hair streaks.

Ya, I have to agree with the person that said Valanice looks way older has aged mysteriously, compared to how she looked in KQ7, and how much time you have between the two games(just a couple of months).


Here is her MoE painting;

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/d/d2/ValanicepaintingMoE.JPG)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Yonkey on August 12, 2006, 01:22:30 PM
and then putting highlights back into his hair to give it some long white hair streaks.
Those are natural. :)

;P
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 01:43:18 PM
The problem with dying hair is it makes hair one solid color. Dye does not fade.

So if he had dyed his hair, then he shouldn't have streaks of white from roots to tips through his hair. The only way to get that look is to add highlights back in.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 12, 2006, 02:23:59 PM
Ya, I have to agree with the person that said Valanice looks way older has aged mysteriously, compared to how she looked in KQ7, and how much time you have between the two games(just a couple of months).


Here is her MoE painting;

http://www.sq7.org/KQ/index.php/Image:ValanicepaintingMoE.JPG

Yeah, but in KQ7 which took place right after 6 her hair went from being mostly brown in KQ6 to being almost all gray.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 03:10:40 PM
Quote
Yeah, but in KQ7 which took place right after 6 her hair went from being mostly brown in KQ6 to being almost all gray.
I'm confused...

In KQ6 her hair is red.

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/1/11/Valanice.png)

In KQ7 its brown, sometimes reddish brown. Its never mostly grey. (though she has a few grey streaks in reddish-brown hair on the boxart for the game, but no streaks in the game itself).

In the MoE portrait her hair is red, and shows no signs of greying.

Its only in TSL that she has some grey streaks. She never once had "mostly grey" hair.

Here is another shot of Graham's MoE hair;

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/2/2a/GrahamMoe2.JPG)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Dangling Participle on August 17, 2006, 01:02:53 AM
I think that the different hair colors is just a matter of design and palettes/resolution used for each game. One could also get confused when seeing the pictures above by the fact that Graham's face turned lighter between KQ6 and MoE... Remember also that his face used to be yellow at the time of KQ1-2.

All the portraits in KQ6 (CD version) had a lot of red tones, making Valanice's hair looks more reddish that in KQ7.
And well, the grey streaks she has in KQ7 are very similar to the grey part she has now in TSL...  ::) just a matter of design, I believe.

(http://es.geocities.com/warawara52/vall.png)

Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 26, 2006, 03:40:02 PM
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6929/screen12lq2.jpg)

Well, TSL Graham's hair is lighter than KQ5's Graham...
and more ''frail'' looking, though I really don't think Graham looks frail in MOE. I mean, he's wearing royal robes, not form fitting adventure attire.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 26, 2006, 04:51:31 PM
Quote
One could also get confused when seeing the pictures above by the fact that Graham's face turned lighter between KQ6 and MoE...

That's actually somewhat controlled by the color and contrast settings on the PC. Different computers with different video cards also have different color and contrast settings. So facial shades are going to appear lighter or darker depending on the computer that took the screenshot, and how they had their settings.


Quote
, the grey streaks she has in KQ7


Minor note she doesn't actually have any grey streaks in the game itself. Noting that all in-game artists weren't the same ones who did the various box art.

As mentioned and you can look at the screenshot, in her painting in MOE she has red hair with no white. Granted the painting may be trying to make her look better than she really does.

Quote
Well, TSL Graham's hair is lighter than KQ5's Graham...

The hair in TSL is darker than in MOE.

Quote
mean, he's wearing royal robes, not form fitting adventure attire.

For not wearing a form fitting robe, he sure is sporting a fat belly. He appears frail in some shots and just pure out of shape in others.

To paraphrase Mark Seibert, on the history for MOE, he's still around so he isn't dead yet, but he's now old.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 26, 2006, 06:10:11 PM
Yeah, but as was said before, he's been referred to as ''old'' or ''Old King Graham'' since KQ4. So, I think in the King's Quest universe, what is referred to as old would be relatively young or middle age in the modern world. Remember, King's Quest DOES take place in a medieval world, albeit a fantasy one. A man in his 40s or 50s would definately have been considered old in those times, as most people didn't live to that age, and I guess Graham going gray/white early would also contribute to him being referred to as old.
I mean, in the King's Quest universe, is a character's hair color really a big inconsistancy? Like in KQ1 looks like he's suffering from Jaundice lol he's like a little yellow man, but by V he's of a reddish hue, and by MOE and TSL he looks like a normal man.

And yes, I think MOE's Graham is inconsistant with himself. In the opening he looks pretty fat and doesn't look all that old except for the white hair (which some people go prematurely white, I have an uncle who is in his 40s and has snow white hair) and if you look closely Graham has a mustache. And yet in the ending cutscene he looks frail and skinny, almost anorexic, and aged.

Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 26, 2006, 08:10:46 PM
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Like in KQ1 looks like he's suffering from Jaundice lol he's like a little yellow man,

As a technicaly issue I'd like to point back then they didn't have skin color in 16 color AGI video compatible video cards. AGI does not allow for skin colors, or hand drawn graphics.

Its not like they could go for a realistic art style with those primitive graphics. Anything KQ5 on up had full 256 colors or more to work with, and could have hand drawn art.

 However Graham's artwork in the various art for him in box art and whatever else in the early games, shows him to have dark hair. He is also described to have dark hair in King's Quest companion for kq1 and 2. Any descriptions better follow realistic human descriptions not jaundince.

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''Old King Graham'' since KQ4.

If you are referring to the manual. NO HE IS NOT...

Only Edward is referred to as "old" in the manual.

Neither is he referred as old in KQ5 manual either.

What's up with the whole "definition" of old? I'm fine with 45-46 being considered old in a medieval times on earth. But some people argue that that is young as well, based on him eating the fruit which may have extended his life beyond normal means... Here I get stuck in the middle of the arguement :p...

But no matter how you view things he's old enough to be close to death, but not dead yet in MOE.

Quote
And yet in the ending cutscene he looks frail and skinny, almost anorexic, and aged.

Actually kind of hard to see if he has a fat belly or not from the last cutscene it only shows him from the front, and from above the waist. You don't get a good side view to see how far his waste sticks out in that cutscene.

You can't see his hair at all during that cutscene.

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/1/1b/GrahamMoE.JPG)
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 26, 2006, 08:47:07 PM

If you are referring to the manual. NO HE IS NOT...

Only Edward is referred to as "old" in the manual.

Neither is he referred as old in KQ5 manual either.

No, I meant as far as the games. In KQ4 the game itself, he's referred to in the intro as "Old King Graham" and in places during V (I don't remember specifically where) he's referred to as old or aged.


Quote
Actually kind of hard to see if he has a fat belly or not from the last cutscene it only shows him from the front, and from above the waist. You don't get a good side view to see how far his waste sticks out in that cutscene.

You can't see his hair at all during that cutscene.

(http://www.sq7.org/KQ/images/1/1b/GrahamMoE.JPG)

Well, look at the way his stomach inclines from his chest area down. That, to me, kinda shows that he is skinny. If he was overweight, you'd definately be able to see it from the front, because in that screenshot, his body is facing a little towards the left, allowing you to side his side a little.
And yet, in the intro, he doesn't look frail, and not that old (except for the hair) and he has grown a mustache, which shows an inconsistancy within the game itself as to how Graham appears. I don't get the whole MOE portrait of Graham thing, as he (except for the skin tones) looks exactly the same as in KQ6, except for the white hair and green hat...which is weird...I think something in the portrait's coloration must've gotten messed up.
Title: Re: King Graham Question
Post by: Baggins on August 26, 2006, 09:06:07 PM
Quote
No, I meant as far as the games. In KQ4 the game itself, he's referred to in the intro as "Old King Graham" and in places during V (I don't remember specifically where) he's referred to as old or aged

Ok I'll look into that, and yep it does say "old". Granted later in the intro, Rosella says he's "still young". So I guess its a matter of interpretation.

But like I say I don't mind him being considered old at 42 at KQ4, and 45 in KQ6-7(as based on Lorelei Shannon's age for Graham), and up to 50-60ish for MoE, if one goes by Middle Ages health issues. His heart was also weakened to due his sadness of almost losing his daughter, his last surviving heir as well, and the shock of his returning son.

He's called old King Graham in King's Quest Companion during events of KQ4-7 IIRC as well. Old is a time range not a specific year.

As for the MOE cut scenes;

Eh I don't see enough to make an actualy judgement from that scenes... He looks older than he did in KQ6, by at least 10 years imo.

I don't really see a mustache in the intro either ... They don't show the front of his face. Just behind his right cheek.

As for the portrait coloring ya, I agree the green hat is somewhat  weird... Then again other artists gave him a green hat at times(KQ2 box art), or other colored hats(SMS remake its white/purple trim for example).

As for him having white hair I'm assured that was intentional by Mark Seibert they wanted to show that he had aged, almost to his death of old age. Coming to the end of his years.