So ya you thought the Ferryman was a foreigner?
Definitely. If you listen to what he says you can tell he has different values and priorities than the rest of the merchants from the Green Isles. He is obviously quite business-minded and with his ship being out of service during KQ6, who knows how the poor dude was able to survive! :-\
;P
So you think he's a foreigner even though his family has been living on the island and running the ferry for "generations"?
Doesn't make much sense LOL.
But ya Hassan in TSL seems like quite a different character than the one in KQ6.
The ferry might have used to be run for free and supported by the crown. But he's definitely turned into a greedy person in your game LOL, and shows far more tension.
Why is this post keep on being moved out of the tension thread, cause Hassan's tense characterization is definitely part of the tension topic :p...
You can be a permanent resident, but still be a foreigner. :P Perhaps his grandparents immigrated to the Green Isles, back in KQ1. While Graham was seeking the three lost treasures, Hassan's grandpa was searching for a way to cash-in on the whole new-fangled tourism industry. :) ;P
Anyway, all characters in our game are more "real" than in previous KQ games. That's one thing you'll notice for sure, that our game is very character and personality-driven rather than puzzle-driven. Hassan may seem like a greedy money-grubbing pirate to you, but he's just trying to make a living like everybody else in this world. :P
Besides, if your whole life was dependant on a ferry, would you waste your time and energy taking around some random stranger for free that you've never met before? Especially one claiming to be a "king" and the father of King Alexander? ;) If anything, he was probably wondering why Graham doesn't have his own navy fleet to carry him around! :P
I've not played KQVI or the demo, so I cannot comment on this Hassan. But it is possible under some linguistic and cultural trends to be a foreigner despite living in a country for generations.
In Greece for example "citizens" made a minority of the free population even in a releativly liberal state like Athens. The non-citizen free men living in the city are at times called foreigners not matter how long they lived in the city. Rome granted citizenship more freely than most Greek polis, but still majority of the free men of the Empire were not citizens until the reign of Caracalla ot slightly before IIRC. Though non-citizens were called something more like "serf" or "second class citizen" than "foreigner" a word like foreigner might still be applied by some cultures to describe such non-citizen freemen. :) In the Middle Ages a foreigners quarter like the Flemings in London, the Germans in Novgorod or the Italians in Constainople was not uncommon. US nateralization laws were not common in the classical or Medeival world, and it was quite possible for one to live in a nation without becoming a citizen for it.
That said, one who have lived in a country for generations was not likely to distingush himself in speech or manner even if he was not legally a citizen. Unless prehaps he was of a sect similar to the Jews, who kept culturally aloof from other peoples not matter how long they lived among them. Ahh the possiblities.... ;D
According to the official history Hassen's family has been running the ferry for generations. It has to have been at least one hundred years since one of his ancestors was taking King Aliphim hunting on Isle of the Forest before it became Isle of the Beast.
Only his family knows how to get through the rough waters of islands, and they have done this for more than two generations. They were important to society as they were the only way for the citizens of the Green Isles to contact each other and travel around the lands of the kingdom. There are no other boats.
"The family that runs the ferry has done so for generations, each father passing on to his son the secret of the tricky navigation. Many believe that the ferryman`s family line has an uncanny instinct for the sea around the isles. It is said that they sail " by the blood in their veins". One thing is certain: I would not venture to sail a ship in these waters, so whatever the secrets of the ferryman`s family - thank the stars for it!" -Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles.
I'm surprised you missed that bit of information.
At least by original intent of the old games, he was intended to be a citizen of the green isles. You really can't go by sound of their accents to claim they are foreign, cause green islanders are diverse and every single character in KQ6 had a different accent, :p...
Even Ali, Hakim, Jollo, Guard Dogs, Beauty, her stepmother, and lamp peddler on the Isle of the Crown each had different accents but were supposed to be citizens of the islands :p...
Also the guidebook hinted that ship was maintained by its value to the kindgom.
All travel between the Islands is focused at the docks and, indeed at a single vessel, That vessel is simply called "the Ferry" and it is a pleasant enough little ship, well- maintained as befits its value to the kingdom. The ferryman is a jolly fellow, patient even with the youngest of his passengers. His young son helps manage the vessel and helps keep her shipshape.
.
A bit more on history of the ferry;
Beyond the village lie the docks, a place of bustle and excitement, Even the humblest citizen of the Isle of the Crown frequently enjoys visiting the other islands in the kingdom. In return, it is not uncommon to see all manner of strange creatures frequenting the village shops from the kingdom`s other islands.
All travel between the Islands is focused at the docks and, indeed at a single vessel, That vessel is simply called "the Ferry" and it is a pleasant enough little ship, well- maintained as befits its value to the kingdom. The ferryman is a jolly fellow, patient even with the youngest of his passengers. His young son helps manage the vessel and helps keep her shipshape.
If anything his family has a high place in the citizenry of the islands since without Hassan's family there is no way the kingdoms could be kept together, they would have no way of travel, no way of communication, no way of trade.
It was a ferry that would take around even the most humble of citizens of the lands... It didn't matter who they were. He was being supported by the kingdom, so he had no need to prevent them being able to travel.
He also knew very well that he and his family where the only ones that knew the way around the islands, and could travel the water safely. As he was surprised Alexander even survived the crash way back in KQ6. He would know for certain that any fleet without his help, could never make it through the waters.
Also there was no tourism industry to the islands with lands outside of the Green Isles.
As Derek Karlavaegen states in guide and companion the island was unknown, it was entirely romote and isolated from the outside world. The royal family made sure it wasn't known, and kept a secret to the rest of the world. That way outside world would not be able to influence their world. Derek made sure he kept his mouth shut when he got back to his home as well, lieing if need be, in order to hide the kingdom's existence.
Also its not just a ferry it is the Royal Ferry, they are the royal mariners.
According to Derek Karlavaegen in his article about the world written sometime after the events of KQ6, when Alexander is king of both Isle of the Crown and the rest of the Green Isles, ruling from Emerald Throne in the Castle of the Crown;
This island is home to the lands main source of transportation and commerce, a single ferry boat that has been run by generations of royal mariners. As long as the ferry is in good repair, all commerce and trade goes well.
Let's see if he is the royal ferryman of the land of the Green Isles and is receiving support from the castle to keep his ship in tip top shape so that citizens can get around the Islands, and now he's collecting money on the side... Well he's definitely gone greedy.
I'll just do a simple clear up here. Hassan is a green-islander. :) More dialogues:
ISLE OF THE CROWN:
GRAHAM: You have a pretty island here. The view is incredible.
HASSAN: What can any man say about the place he was born? I’m glad to live and breathe on this isle, as hard as times may be sometimes. It’s less crazy than the Isle of Wonder, more civilized than the Isle of the Beast, more “down-to-Earth†than the Isle of the Sacred Mountain, and certainly more solid than the newly discovered Isle of Mist and any other rocks that might be hiding out there near the boundaries of the world. This little place is the best spot for anyone to live, native to the archipelago or otherwise.
Good to know that he isn't a foreigner in your game, ;).
I think the main reason why I assumed he's a foreigner mostly due to his accent and vernacular, but also due to his economic values in comparison with those of the other merchants on the Isle. 8)
In the demo, he explains how other shops aren't so dependant on the weather, equipment and employee wages in order for their businesses to thrive. As a sailor that has had to experience more hardships than the others on that isle (ref: KQ6), it's pretty clear why he's not willing to let some dude in red and blue sail around for free. ;)
Anyway, the Green Isle literature and Cesar has now said he's a citizen, but even if he wasn't it wouldn't make much difference in terms of his personality. :P
QuoteI think the main reason why I assumed he's a foreigner mostly due to his accent and vernacular, but also due to his economic values in comparison with those of the other merchants on the Isle.
Of course his economic values are his new interpretation and change from how he was back in KQ6. I noticed there were a couple of refrences if you use the eye icon to him he had turned the ferry into formal business only recently apparently.
His ship was dry-docked back in KQ6, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't content about being out of business back then. :P Especially considering his family has been doing this for generations. XD
QuoteHis ship was dry-docked back in KQ6, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't content about being out of business back then. Especially considering his family has been doing this for generations.
Ok, let's not run in circles about this...
But previously there had been no business. It was a free service which traveled between the islands, run by the Castle of the Crown's royal mariners. As it was owned by the Castle of the Crown, the crown supported the royal mariners, and covered the maintenance costs. Being the royal mariners would make them employees of the government rather than owners of a business. Because it was free service even the most humblest citizen of the islands could get around.
That backstory helps explain why there is absolutely no discussion of Hassan's "economic values" in KQ6, nor is there any way to interpret his or his family's "economic values" during that game.
His current "economic values" are a newly invented plot element introduced by TSL. The fact that Ferry has only recently been turned into a "formal business" is something that is mentioned in the narration if you look around at newly built ticket booth near the docks (there originally was no need for tickets, and no ticket booth previously). Also I don't know if its related to his business, but there is also a newly built lighthouse, where no lighthouse used to exist.
Also because there was no ferry to get about the islands most shops, and the village bazaar had to close down during Alhazred's regency, according to the companion, because they had no way of keeping up their trades or businessess since no supplies were coming in, and they had no way of selling to the other islands. The ferry was the lone shipping service about the islands. So there were alot of people that had hard times on Isle of the Crown due to Alhazred's treachery.
I think an important question that needs to be asked is why the Castle gave away its royal ferry to Hassan. Did Hassan commit extortion from the government into giving him the Ferry and allowed him to charter his own business? Perhaps he went on strike, refusing to travel around the islands until the government gave him the ship, and the rights to charge everyone exorbent fees for using his service.
In anycase its certain to prevent the humble citizens from getting around the islands, as he now has the monopoly on public travel, and can charge from them their whole life savings....
QuoteI think an important question that needs to be asked is why the Castle gave away its royal ferry to Hassan.
Obviously, Ali's books started carrying Milton Freidmen's works about the time Alex started getting curious about what all this mumbo-jumbo his econmics advisor kept saying really meant. ;D
The Ferry service was free to all citizens to promote peace, freedom, and good will to all those who lived on or visited the kingdoms. It allowed anyone from the poor to rich to travel anywhere in the kingdom. So they could save their money for necessities (like food, clothing, and shelter).
However, by allowing Hassan to have the monopoly on transportation, now the nations most humble citizens can no longer have a way of traveling about the islands without giving up their entire life savings...
Not to mention he can extort all businesses in the kingdom, since he has the also has the lone monopoly on shipping between the islands.
:P...
Also where is Shamir, or the Magic Map? Couldn't Graham have used one of those for travel? I mean Shamir is the reason Graham was able to get to the islands in the first place during KQ6, via teleportation. We also know the magic map can take individuals about the islands.
Ahh I think I know, Hassan is only getting away with extortion right now because Alexander is incapicated :suffer:, and can't stop him. He is playing Graham the buffoon. Graham doesn't know better, so he isn't likely to report Hassan's actions back to Alexander. 8)
Maybe, Hassan has to charge so much because the crown offers free travel via "Shamir Air", to replace their lost ferry service. Its likely to spite Hassan since he extorted crown for the ship in the first place. ;D :suffer:
Since we are not longer talking about Hassan's nationality and I am now officially paranoid (not just any paranoid, but official mind you :P), I'll post another thread. But it won't be labeled topical this time. :suffer:
Hahha I love this discussion! XD
Quote from: Petra Rocks on August 09, 2006, 05:04:27 PM
I'll post another thread. But it won't be labeled topical this time. :suffer:
LOL! Actually as I was telling Cesar today, when I first saw that thread title I thought it said "tropical", and was thinking blue water, white sand, margueritas. I was greatly disappointed when I clicked the link and found out you weren't offering me a free carribean vacation. :-\ ;P
Quote from: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 01:58:27 PM
I think an important question that needs to be asked is why the Castle gave away its royal ferry to Hassan. Did Hassan commit extortion from the government into giving him the Ferry and allowed him to charter his own business?
I think it's more because, apart from Alexander, Hassan is the only known mariner throughout all of KQVI. :P
Quote from: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 02:51:09 PM
Also where is Shamir, or the Magic Map? Couldn't Graham have used one of those for travel?
Shamir's in the intro, but even he doesn't perform magic for whomever it pleases. If the Ferry was a floating Shamir, I doubt most fans would like that. :P And I believe Alexander is keeping the Magic Map in safekeeping, but you won't see where until Chapter 2. :suffer:
But to get back on topic, we could have left Hassan just as he was in KQVI, but remember, this is a sequel and time has passed. Not to mention, the events that happen in our storyline will affect characters in different ways. So, if you're looking for a replica of KQVI, you've definitely come to the wrong place. 8)
QuoteThe Ferry service was free to all citizens to promote peace, freedom, and good will to all those who lived on or visited the kingdoms. It allowed anyone from the poor to rich to travel anywhere in the kingdom. So they could save their money for necessities (like food, clothing, and shelter).
However, by allowing Hassan to have the monopoly on transportation, now the nations most humble citizens can no longer have a way of traveling about the islands without giving up their entire life savings...
Not to mention he can extort all businesses in the kingdom, since he has the also has the lone monopoly on shipping between the islands.
...
Also where is Shamir, or the Magic Map? Couldn't Graham have used one of those for travel? I mean Shamir is the reason Graham was able to get to the islands in the first place during KQ6, via teleportation. We also know the magic map can take individuals about the islands.
Ahh I think I know, Hassan is only getting away with extortion right now because Alexander is incapicated , and can't stop him. He is playing Graham the buffoon. Graham doesn't know better, so he isn't likely to report Hassan's actions back to Alexander.
Maybe, Hassan has to charge so much because the crown offers free travel via "Shamir Air", to replace their lost ferry service. Its likely to spite Hassan since he extorted crown for the ship in the first place.
Who knows? I got the general impression from the dialog that this isn't exactly the normal way Hassan does business. ::)
In normal times the crown may have decided it is smarter to let Hassen charge controlled fees that to subsidize him. After all,people pay to support Hassan in taxes or fees, and the people using the ferry may as well be the ones to pay. ;) Or maybe the king just wanted to know how many people were using the ferry and so put up a ticket booth. Or maybe Hassan is bewitched by the evil stranger and its all part of a plot to keep Graham on the island. :evil: Though you'd think he could make his spell a little more gold proof. :stupid:
QuoteHassan is the only known mariner throughout all of KQVI.
That is because he is the only mariner on the islands. There are no other ships. He is the only one that knows how to travel through the islands safely.
I'm not looking for a replica o KQ6, but I'm hoping there is an explanation in his change of character and profession(going from Royal Marina to Businessman), and how or why the Crown gave up the ship.
Quote from: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 05:12:47 PM
I'm not looking for a replica o KQ6, but I'm hoping there is an explanation in his change of character and profession(going from Royal Marina to Businessman), and how or why the Crown gave up the ship.
I can't really remember what different dialogue he says during Chapter 2 (but I do know he has different conversation topics). Cesar can answer that if he wants. :P
However, given what is now public knowledge (i.e. the demo), I would say he needs to make a living just like anyone else. The Crown giving up the ship may have been due to a benevolent decision made by Alexander and Cassima, as many other changes made within the Green Isles. 8)
Wow, we have a topic to discuss "hassan" why do we need 2-3 topics to discuss Hassan? Aren't topics about Hassan covered all in the same topic title? :P
For some reason this forum has a strange habit of splitting up related topics.
Hah. Not very benevolent if you consider the fact they put the single source of transportation and shipping into the hands of a single enterprise. Monopoly's are bad. :suffer:
Also, not very benevolent to the poor citizens that relied on free travel to get around, or the island businesses that will have to pay his exorbent fees to ship their goods around the islands.
The system as it was previously put up for benevolent reasons, and it worked. People were quite happy with it. Taxes were kept low as well (though i'm not sure how).
I think its a conspiracy, or extortion and I'm sticking to it. :suffer:
Maybe he's turned pirate... Since he didn't a need a crew before to ferry people around. But hey Sea Dog Hassan could more easily rob shipping lanes outside the islands with a crew of scaliwags.
Maybe he is secretly a privateer for the crown. He robs shipping lanes gives some of the gold to crown's coffers.
Maybe he charges high amounts of money only to give some back to the castle.
Not to mention his first mate looks a bit seedy. :suffer:
So he plays graham the fool charging him even more than he usually charges (as we note from his surprise by the amount of the money in the bag). Graham doesn't even notice he's being overcharge. and Hassan gets to double dip off the castle's funds. (Graham gives him a "week"'s worth of gold", and he claims its only good for 2 days). Certainly a pirately thing to do.
Like Petra brought up, the ticket booth could be a secondary way to collect taxes and take census, without the people being any wiser.
Also maybe hassan double charges his passengers, pays the crown its share, but keeps a double share himself, like a corrupt tax collector, ;).
Heheh well conspiracies can actually go both ways. 8)
Maybe in KQIV travel was seemingly free to the player (since Alex used a magic map) and Derek, but maybe it really wasn't. Maybe Alhazred secretly imposed a tax on all ferry travel and tariff on all imports/exports between the Isles. Considering he stole all their sacred treasures, this isn't an unreasonable assumption about his jaded character. :P
It's no wonder Hassan had to work for free! Any profits he made were snuffed out of his hands by Alhazred. Or literally vanished with the help of Shamir, a.k.a. the omnipresent tax collector. ;P
I'd have to say Hassan played it smart by sabotaging the Ferry back then and claiming it was under repairs. Alhazred was a bit too unintelligent on naval travel to understand the complete fluid mechanics of a sea vessel, and he probably didn't want Shamir to waste magic on repairing it. Alhazred's more of a slave-driver kind of person, and with Shamir under his control, he could literally do whatever he wanted. :no:
XD
:stars:
Anyhow, I suspect that Hassan is probably not quite honest or at least operating on normal procedures when he charges Graham. If that has any further conotations that haggling we shall see I guess.
But just for the record, I hope Alex never let Graham go near the bazaar unsupervised. He's obviously got no skill at haggling. ;D
I only know the ferry travel was free since that's what it says in the manual and companion about the ferry. But hey if POS has decided to ignore those sources for the sake of their personal story who am I to argue LOL... :suffer:
I was just trying to tie things together so it fits better in my mind.
That's the curse of knowing too much canon, when somebody doesn't follow it, it bugs you. Just ask any Trekkie (no offense intended). They should've had you on the team when they were writing the script, you could've made sure KQ canon was perfectly adhered too. You're more than qualified. ;D
But you can rationalize your way around it, like we are doing here. You can also try to deduce odd things like lifespans from bits of info that the poor author never even realized (s)he was implying. ;D
On a purely personal side note, that's why I like history. More complexity that any fictional universe (though Tolkien's is pretty good), and not of these annoying contradictions. Forgetting if the ferry was free or not is the kind of error that doesn't fly in real life. :P Besides, it goes over well with the parents. ;D
Haha, well that's all I'm saying. The beauty of fan-fiction is you can make whatever you like happen and somehow work it into the bits of truth that there is with the official storyline.
While you could say Hassan is a greedy money lover, you could also say Alhazred and Shamir were instead, and base a whole storyline on that. ;)