POStudios Forum

The Royal Archives => General => The Silver Age => Plot => Topic started by: Petra Rocks on August 08, 2006, 12:16:10 PM

Title: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 08, 2006, 12:16:10 PM
Quote
So I guess Graham being a knight at age 19 would not be unrealistic even to real life.


 I'm not the resident Middle Ages person *throws look at Deloria*, But IIRC, the kighting could take place at almost any age.  In later times some chose never to become knight to avoid responbilities.  At others a child might be to give him more prestige in the eyes of the subjects.  


 To put it all in a nutshell, lifespan depends on standard of living, almost exclusivly.  The question is, does Daventry support a post-industrial living standard or not?  Either way average lifetime can be determined with resonable accuracy, but I have no idea what the answers is, so I can't say how long people in Daventry live.  :)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 08, 2006, 12:17:42 PM
Doesn't this depend on what period of time you define as the industrial revolution? XD
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 08, 2006, 12:26:01 PM
 Well, the end of it anyway.  :)  Just leave it at higher living standard=longer life then.  By post-industrial I meant 1940's or so, but that can vary a lot.   ;)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 08, 2006, 12:31:44 PM
So basically, you're asking if someone like Graham would be able to survive in today's modern world?  Interesting... 8)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: TheGreatGraham on August 08, 2006, 12:49:32 PM
  I didn't think into religion, because Moses IS a historical figure.  I was in no way trying to start a religious debate, so I don't see where you got that from.  Sorry if I offended, but I was simply stated if you are relating the timeline of history to KQ timeline, not all people in the past were limited to a 50 year life span.
  "Also I never said anything about 10 kings a hundred year span... 4-6 at the most. If there were 10 kings in 100 year life span and they had all died of "old age", well that would all give them aprroximately 20 year lifespans... 10 years to grow and about 10 years to rule... Sorry that doesn't make any logical sense at all.
al figure."
  Very seldom do things work in perfect order, and if you read the history books there are very seldomly kings who simply become kings when they are twenty five, die thirty years later, and everyone else follows that exact cycle.  There are often more than 6 or 7 kings in a 100 year span.  Also let me out your assuming the first man became king when he was 25, while it was just as likely he bacame a king when he was 55, and he ruled for 25 years.
 "Again we are discussing humans and human age patterns "
  As I have already said, that is EXACTLY my point.  The only reference you have to the lifespan of humans is the history of former kings of the Green Isles, and that history is sketchy at best.
  "Well there is this little fact that Isle of the Crown had been quite peaceful previously." 
  So that mean's noone dies?  Every country has problems, even in so-called times of "peace".   If there were no problems, and every king ruled well and had no difficulties whatsoever, that would mean the story was a fantasy, and in fantasies people live longer.

  THis is pretty far off-topic, so I'll bring it back on track.  All I originally said was that Graham would most likely not die from natural causes in this game, so we wouldn't have to worry about who would take over the throne unless he dies by unnatural causes.  I said this assuming Graham was 55, but now YOU say he was about 45.  Even if the maximum average life span was 60, he would still have 15 years, and he also has the fruit, and we have no idea how much that could increase his age.  So unless he dies of unnatural causes, we won't have to worry about  who takes over the throne.
  Ok?  I actually don't see why this whole conversation about the timeline got started, since that is the only thing I was trying to say.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 08, 2006, 12:54:08 PM
 It is an interesting thought, but that's not what I'm trying to ask. I was trying to ask how long people in daventry live, and pointing out that living standard is far and away the most important factor in determining that.  Thus, if Daventry has a "modern" living standard or not in large part determines the answer to the question of how long people live in Daventry.  :)   
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: TheGreatGraham on August 08, 2006, 01:11:17 PM
  Hmmm...  All I can remember is that it was said he would have "many years of life before him", besides that I don't remember.
You would think it would extend his age somewhat, since it most likely healed any other problems he had (let's say arthritis).
  On all the other stuff, I will agree to disagree about the timeline, since we obviously simply have two different viewpoints.  Since we are really not filled in on the information, I will venture to say that neither of us are wrong, but each filling in the gaps in the timeline 'in our own way.'  I take the fantasy approach, well you take the realistic, dark ages approach.  If I ever want a debate I'll know who to start arguing with (I still think I'm right though ;D)
  Actually, if Graham does die in TSL, it will be very interesting.  I'll explain what I mean.  The fairy on Tamir promised Rosella that Graham had many years of good health ahead of him.  THis could be seen two ways.
1:Simply stating that he was cured of his current problem, the heart attack.  or
2:It could be seen as a prophecy.  It could be predicting Graham would live "many more years".  Since, in the TSL timeline at least, the time between KQ4 and TSL is not at all great, it could not very well be considered 'many years'.  Does this mean if Graham dies the prophecy is false, if it even is a prophecy?
  I hope this problem can be solved by simply letting Graham live and killing someone else (if POS insists on bloodshed).  Then the throne won't be a worry.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 08, 2006, 01:19:35 PM
Ah ok.  Well, one way to figure it out is to examine anyone who dies during a KQ game and/or the KQ companions of natural causes. :)

King Edward is the only one that comes to mind at the moment, but I don't have time to check his timeline and whatnot.  Could someone estimate his age at time of death?  Although, as a King he may have lived more lavishly than an ordinary peasant, so keep in mind that this isn't 100% scientifically accurate. :P
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2006, 01:46:28 PM
Granted dieing in old age in world of Daventry is caused by dieties from various underworlds. 

Such as Father Death(KQ4), Samhain(KQ6), or Azriel(MoE). So it would appear they don't like letting humans live for long periods of time, so they decide when people have lived too long in the world. Apparently they have no control over immortals though.

Quote
King Edward is the only one that comes to mind at the moment, but I don't have time to check his timeline and whatnot.  Could someone estimate his age at time of death?  Although, as a King he may have lived more lavishly than an ordinary peasant, so keep in mind that this isn't 100% scientifically accurate

Well to have any idea of how to calculate his age we would need an idea when he was born. I have no idea when you have him born in your TSL timeline.

I'm not sure there is much of anything about him in novels or companion, except a few offhand remarks, and some refrences to what he did while he was king.

One of the only specific dates is that apparently the mirror was stolen 20 years before KQ1.

There was a few remarks about some of the kings before Edward in one of the novels, but I don't remember a timespan mentioned.
Quote
"Very seldom do things work in perfect order, and if you read the history books there are very seldomly kings who simply become kings when they are twenty five, die thirty years later, and everyone else follows that exact cycle. "

Going by the manuals and the companion, and narration quotes in the game,  it would appear all the kings before caliphim all lived and died of old age. So if at least 4 kings existed during a 100 year timespan, old age would not be more than 60-70  with a king that ruled before 100 years, one that lived into the 100 year era, and one that lived beyond the 100 year era.

Since kings tend to live longer than the subjects due to better medical options and better food choices, then that would mean in Green Isles the lower class likely do not live as long. Shave off a decade or so.

Oh ya Hassan is considered an at least older middle-age in KQ6, he was "young" child 20 years before. His father is dead of apparently old age going by the companion.

 
Quote
So that mean's noone dies?  Every country has problems, even in so-called times of "peace".   If there were no problems, and every king ruled well and had no difficulties whatsoever, that would mean the story was a fantasy, and in fantasies people live longer.

There were no problems, and obvioulsy they didn't live longer, as there were 4-5 kings in a 100 year period of known peace with only Caliphim dieing of unatural causes. Believe me that doesn't mean they "live longer". That literally means on average they ruled only 25 years of time during those 100 years.

 
Quote
THis is pretty far off-topic, so I'll bring it back on track.  All I originally said was that Graham would most likely not die from natural causes in this game, so we wouldn't have to worry about who would take over the throne unless he dies by unnatural causes.  I said this assuming Graham was 55, but now YOU say he was about 45.  Even if the maximum average life span was 60, he would still have 15 years, and he also has the fruit, and we have no idea how much that could increase his age.  So unless he dies of unnatural causes, we won't have to worry about  who takes over the throne.

Again I agree the only discussion of age related subject was only tryinng to figure out a ballpark figure of when Graham may die. Not when he will die, or how long he will live since he's a bit different than most other humans thanks to having consumed mystical fruit(which we have no idea if it extends life, or only heals life(I'll have to look into that).

Quote
I take the fantasy approach, well you take the realistic, dark ages approach.


Who said anything about the dark ages approach? If it was the dark ages, they wouldn't be living nearly as long as 50-70 maybe 80 years. 50-70 years during the dark ages would be absolutely ancient, and very long lived life. 60-70 years is modern average, and that is due to health breakthrouths. So yes fantastically if they are living 60-70 maybe 80 years in medieval-like realm on average that is fantastically spectaculer. Especially considering that any number of dieties could decide they are too old and should die of "old age".


Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 08, 2006, 02:08:33 PM
Granted dieing in old age in world of Daventry is caused by dieties from various underworlds. 
Hehe I know, that's why I said let's try to list people that died of natural causes, but King Edward is the only one I could think of. :-\
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2006, 02:20:09 PM
Quote
Hehe I know, that's why I said let's try to list people that died of natural causes, but King Edward is the only one I could think of.

Well if we went by your definition of "natural causes", i'm not sure Edward could be counted as well. First off the companion or one of the manuals mentions he was taken by Death(so sounds like Father Death). He died of heart attack, one of joy. Heart disease is often considered a disease of old age, since heart disease tends to age people beyond their normal years. For all we know heart attacks is one of the ways the death realms demigods use to take their souls.

Which leads into a point that many cultures "natural causes" include the belief in deities taking the souls, when they have lived the length of their life. So which is why I point out there are more than one definition of "natural causes".
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Boogeyman on August 08, 2006, 04:18:41 PM
Who is this Father Death?
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 08, 2006, 05:35:48 PM
So here you are.  I would've sworn I posted this in the OT section. Oh well. 

  Mmmmkay, one person is not a large enough demographic to draw broad conclusions about life expectancy from, I'm afraid.   :-\  And actually, life expectancies tend to be heavily modified by the infant mortality rate, so the life of a healthy 20 year old king could be pretty long if he didn't get conked over the head with a mace or anything. Charlemagne for example died at 67-72, depending on when he was born.  They didn't exactly issue birth certificates back in the day.  ;)

  And life expectancy takes into account people who die of illness and whatnot, not just when if finally stop going without any reason other than age.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2006, 06:08:50 PM
Quote
Who is this Father Death?

In KQ4 intro movie, the narrator says that Rosella hopes that Father Death doesn't come to take Graham's soul away to the afterlife.

Yes, its pretty obscure refrence. :suffer:.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 09, 2006, 10:39:56 AM
Well as I said, I couldn't think of anyone else.  But, Boogeyman did give me an idea.  How about the ages of some people on their tombstones?  Those should give a decent estimate of an average citizen.

Have a look at the ones in KQ2, KQ4 & KQ7 and let us know the ages you find. :)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 09, 2006, 11:35:23 AM
Hey, that's a good thought. Unfortunately I only have KQ2+, so somebody else will have to look it up.  :-\
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 12:29:03 PM
There are no gravestones in the original KQ2.

KQ2 + ones on the other hand show the average length of age for various dead people between 50-70 years, if they died of "natural" causes. Going by the dating system used, I'm guessing they were inspired by the dating system in KQ4.

However for the  King's Quest 4 dates we have two interpretations to explain the tombstones.

If King's Quest occured on earth as the designers implied, then tombstones have citizens of Tamir that died between 1500-1700s of our history. Age limits are between 50-70 years according to the tombstones.

On the other hand if go by the viewpoint that those stones were brought over from the town of Innsmouth during an unknown date from our world(into another world, or into our  world but in the past). In which case they still show earth age limits between 50-70 years.

Either way, the author of the travel guide "Ten days of Tamir-Vacation in Paradise" seems to treat the ages as being ordinary, and in some cases considers some of the people having died "old". Also Rosella, nor Valanice(who chronicled her daughter's events) don't seem to treat the age of those buried in tamir, as anythng out of the ordinary except for the one or two children (In which case they comment how sad it was that they died young).

KQ7 grave stones do not list any dates as I recall.

KQ-8 stones don't have much dating information either only epitaphs.

The only dates listed on KQ-8 stones graphics are one or two of refrences to the date "1996-1997", which of course has to do with when the game was made.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 09, 2006, 12:31:55 PM
Ahh ok, so 50-70.  I guess they didn't want to go too realistic, as today's average lifespan is in the 80-90's. 8)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 12:49:22 PM
Actually world wide average is is still 70-80s. There are quite a few third world countries that have limits to the 30-50s unfortunately.

According to wikipedia current world-wide average is apparently 64.77 years.

I believe US expectency last time I checked was around 60-70, due to rampant obesity, and unhealthy US diets.

Sure there are many make it to 80-100 years in the US, but they are apparently the exception not the norm.

If its any help with the discussion at hand, people in the world of daventry are supposed to be the decendents of people from ancient nations of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Britain, Arabia, and other miscellaneous countries.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Boogeyman on August 09, 2006, 01:31:40 PM
Quote
Who is this Father Death?

In KQ4 intro movie, the narrator says that Rosella hopes that Father Death doesn't come to take Graham's soul away to the afterlife.

Yes, its pretty obscure refrence. :suffer:.
"King Graham lies weakly in bed, Father Death hovering near."
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 01:38:14 PM
Ya, that's the quote.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 09, 2006, 01:51:03 PM
Sure there are many make it to 80-100 years in the US, but they are apparently the exception not the norm.
Weird.  Everyone I know personally that died of natural causes lived to the age of 82 at least.  But I guess life expectancy is different in Canada than the US.  Anyway, back on topic.

If its any help with the discussion at hand, people in the world of daventry are supposed to be the decendents of people from ancient nations of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Britain, Arabia, and other miscellaneous countries.
Yes, that should be taken into consideration as well.  Different cultures lead different lifestyles, so not only must you look at their origin, you should look at their diet, social/political factors (i.e. wars, plagues, curses, etc), resiliancy to sickness, and amount of physical exercise. 8)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 05:52:58 PM
Most people in my family have lived into their 80s as well.

Like I said 70's average of everyone in the US. It certainly doesn't mean everyone dies between 60-70 in the US. Men usually live shorter than women...

Yes, Canada ranks higher than US in national life expectancy statistics, at about 80 years. Putting them about 9th place in averages.

The highest national average is in Andorra, where average is 83.5 years.


United States life expectency is about Life expectancy is in the 70's, about 77.9 years currently. However its also not in the top 10 highest life expectencies. But neither is it in the top 10 lowest either.

On the flipside the lowest life expectency is 32.6 years in Swaziland.

Sierra Leone used to have one of the lowest life expectency a few years back, but have recently jumped up to 9th lowest at about 40.2 years.

65 years is world wide average for life expectency, taking all nations into account.


How does this relate to the world of Daventry? Well it means that life expectency can vary between nations to a certain degree. Usually between 40-70 years.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 09, 2006, 07:15:36 PM
Quote
How does this relate to the world of Daventry? Well it means that life expectency can vary between nations to a certain degree. Usually between 40-70 years.


 IIRC pre-modern medicine life expectancy was more like 30-40.  A lot of that was childhood though so if you made to 15 you could expect to see 50 at least.

 Baggins brought up an interesting point about plague though. Usually plagues mostly hit pre-modern nations, so if Daventry was suffering from them, it makes it more likely that it's medical effectiveness was pre-modern and thus reduced life expectancy.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2006, 07:17:47 PM
Ya average life expectency in real world pre-modern medicine was  usually around 30-40. 50 if they were pushing it.

So ya if life expectency is between 50-70 in lands around Daventry they are doing pretty well for what is essentially a medievil society. Even with plagues and other diseases.

Also in the real world most of the nations that are in the top 10 lowest expectency statistics are on that list due to lack of modern medicine IIRC.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 09, 2006, 08:29:30 PM
Oh, that reminds me.  I'm not sure if this is off-topic or not, but I remember reading that early societies may have greatly miscalcualted their ages.

In the early ages, they would measure years by moon cycles (i.e. every 28 days) so, when you read in certain mythical/legendary texts and it lists people living to the age of 200 or 300 years, they're actual age is about 13 times less than that number, i.e. 15-23. XD
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 09, 2006, 08:37:22 PM
That's an interesting thought, in particular as it applies to Mesopotamia, whose people used lunar calanders. Especially since the Egyptians, would used a solar calendar, didn't claim God-like lifespans for their early kings.  But unless "month" got translated "year" wouldn't it come out to more like 90% as long?  A lunar year is shorter than a solar year by a couple of weeks, not 1/10 the length.  They knew that in Babylon.  And then the Chinese... ( is thinking while typing, so toodles off to do some research  :P)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: TheGreatGraham on August 12, 2006, 09:46:59 AM
  A lot of this depends upon how much we assume Daventry and the Green Isles were like the Middle AGes as we know them.  Daventry, partly because of the magic which surrounds it, and Graham's good job as King, shows very little sign of any plague or anything, since one of the main reasons the people in medieval times lived such a short time is their lack of medicinal knowledge, along with their bad habits (like with hygeine, and things like bleeding their patients to get out the disease).  Daventry actually appears quite a bit more advanced than your average medieval nation.
  We can't really tell what the average lifespan is, but we do know in some other countries people lived to a considerable age.  One example is reading the headstones in Tamir.  YOu would think, sionce Tamir is much more desolate than Daventry, that they would be even less advanced than Daventry, and if you read the headstones you see that there were some pretty young deaths, but there were some older one's as well.  For instance,
  Rebecca Freeland:She drank good ale, good punch and wine, and lived to the age of 99.
  Lord Coningsby:1559 to 1626 (not that old but 67).
    Most did not say their age, but more their profession.  If you read all of them, very few are said to have died from old age.
  If you take the headstones seriously, it suggests that the age was, as already stated, quite dependant on hygeine and medicine (I actually think the former is really more important to reach an older age up to a point).  So the wuestion is how technologically and medically advanced Daventry really was, and if the people had the knowledge as to how to treat themselves.  Imo, Daventry was more advanced medicinally than Tamir, leaving an old age like 99 possible (though since that is the only reference, it is not guaranteed).  Also, Daventry appears to have much more common sense than people in medieval times did, even if their medicines were not more advanced.  In KQI you didn't see the carpenter bleeding his wife with a rusty knife in order to get the disease out, and other small things like that.  It also seems somewhat apparent they didn't place too big of a value on meat like pigs, and I'm sure they cooked them better than most midevial people (eating pigs and stuff with diseases was a big problem back then.  Seems Daventry had a well-balanced diet (again, you can't tell this for sure, but they did have a garden with carrots, and those are good for your eyes ;))
   As for actually coming up with an age estimate, I'm not gonna d0 that right now, I'll have to think about it.
  As for the calender, that is a pretty interestingthought about their calender.  Of course, you wouldn't think the people of Daventry, with the magic mirror and all sorts of knowledgable people, would make a miscalculation by decades, but maybe it could makle a few years difference.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 12, 2006, 10:06:22 AM
Just one thing to comment on that distinguishes KQ from actual history, KQ didn't believe in hysteria, that is, the process of bleeding someone to rid them of "disease". ;P

In the KQ world, they were treated/healed by magic:

(Warning: Do not read the following unless you want certain KQ series endings spoiled for you :P)
- Graham's Fairy Godmother casting a "protection spell" over him
- the woodcutter's wife being cured of starvation from a magic bowl
- Alexander using magic to turn Manannan into a harmless cat
- Rosella curing Graham's heart attack by the magic fruit
- Cedric being revived via magic wand
- Allaria & Callphim being revived mainly due to the magic mirror
- Edgar being revived from the cat's extra life
- Connor and the repaired Mask of Eternity reanimating all "still life" ;P

So, one can assume that the lives of many KQ citizens were prolonged due to supernatural things and people that can heal injury or reverse death itself. 8)
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 01:37:08 PM
Alright;

IIRC, bleeding gets mentioned offhand in one of the novels. However its a last resort(and only by professional medical personal), if physicians, magic healers abilities and potions do not work. Rosella's darn lucky she got back in time before they resorted to bleeding Graham.  :suffer:


The fairy godmother protection only protected him from random encounters, and it wares off after about 30 minutes of protection. It does not extend life. This is covered in the peter spear novel as well.

Additionally the good fairy in KQ2's spell was the same type of spell. Only making him invulnerable to enemies for a short period of time not actually extending his life. Again covered in the game and Peter Spear's novel.

Magic Bowl just gives you unlimited food it doesn't actually 'extend life". It just has normal every day stew. It does not have any properties to "extend life".

Cedric had turned to "stone" apparently by Manannan's spell, so he was physically restored. He's also a familiar and not a normal owl if that means anything. He's already apparently immortal like crispin. Crispin may not even be human as he left with the first withdrawal which was mostly fantastical creatures.

Allaria and Caliphim were revived by the Lord of Death, not by the magic mirror. The mirror only made him cry. They were revived to the age they were when they died. So they have the rest of normal life  they would have had before them.

Cats have 9 lives, so by giving one of cat's lives to someone else they can be resurrected.

Apparently resurrections are uncommmon though, since most afterlives do not normally want to give up their souls. Being resurrected does not mean that their life is extended however(they may just continue on with what would be their normal lifespan). So called "old age" deaths probably have limits to resurrection.

As for Magic Fruit its apparently may have extended his life(while also healing his bad health), but did not stop him from aging, as he still continues to age throughout the series including MoE.


Quote
shows very little sign of any plague or anything,

The plague came around in Edward's time. Healers and physicians  were not able to cure it. It wiped out most of the citizens of Daventry. Only the strongest survived, or to avoid the disease were forced to leave the kingdom to other lands.

Quote
YOu would think, sionce Tamir is much more desolate than Daventry,


I woud have to disagree. the mansion is of victorian architecture, thus showing a higher level of civilization than in Daventry. Hell they had writings of William Shakespeare. So they exist after renaissance time.

Thus more modern living than in Daventry. Which as we have seen are mostly shacks(KQ1, KQ3), and one room stone buildings(MoE).

Hell tamir has the technology of grand father clocks. Clocks do not exist in Daventry. Again evidence of a more modern civilization.

They tell time more through hour glasses or sun dials.

Beyond that the kingdoms look about the same, meadows and forests, so show the same level of 'desolation'(if you consider forests and meadows "desolate").

Green Isles on the other hand is more modern than Daventry(as its advanced nature is commented on by Guidebook, Alexander, and in TSL's game), but not necessarily as modern as "victorian style" architecture.

As a bit of trivia most of the kQ4 headstones are actually headstones epitaphs found on earth, and are of real people that once lived on earth.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Yonkey on August 12, 2006, 06:42:09 PM
Technically, bleeding doesn't extend you life either, it was meant to heal you from whatever illness/affliction you had, just as magical people/objects did in the KQ series. :P  My point was that in using magic, their natural deaths were ultimately extended, just as modern medicine and homeopathic remidies are able to extend ours today. :)

The irony, of course, is that bleeding was also used against people that believed in magic/witchcraft. ::) XD
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on August 12, 2006, 07:41:46 PM
I think the issue is not so much do magical things exist in Daventry that can cure, but how often are they used.  After all I gather there was some little trouble about getting said fruit, it do not seem to have been the kind of thing sitting the average pharmacy.  :) 
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2006, 07:46:25 PM
The fruit only grows once every 100 years, only one fruit, on only one plant. How long does the fruit last on the bush before it falls off and rots?

So ya its a bit difficult to get. Your average cat isn't likely to give away their lives either.

Which brings up another question, if someone is turned into a cat do they gain extra lives?
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: TheGreatGraham on August 13, 2006, 01:13:51 PM
  Does anyone actually know how many wizrds and stuff actually exist during Graham's time.  Because alot of the timeline, as you guys have said, depends on how much magic is actually used.  I'm guessing an averagfe citizen of Daventry would have a lot less chance to get healed by a wizard than Graham and his family. 

Which brings up another question, if someone is turned into a cat do they gain extra lives?
  Hah, it would be funny if they Graham would happen upon Manannan in TSL, and would have to kill him throughout the game nine different times.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Shades2585 on August 13, 2006, 01:22:53 PM
  Hah, it would be funny if they Graham would happen upon Manannan in TSL, and would have to kill him throughout the game nine different times.

lol That would be funny.
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on August 13, 2006, 04:33:50 PM
Well he might have died once, in order to get out of hte bag in Manannan's castle.  :suffer:
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on November 10, 2006, 05:37:36 PM
  Does anyone actually know how many wizrds and stuff actually exist during Graham's time.  Because alot of the timeline, as you guys have said, depends on how much magic is actually used.  I'm guessing an averagfe citizen of Daventry would have a lot less chance to get healed by a wizard than Graham and his family. 

Which brings up another question, if someone is turned into a cat do they gain extra lives?
  Hah, it would be funny if they Graham would happen upon Manannan in TSL, and would have to kill him throughout the game nine different times.


 And good question. A lot of the NPC's you run across in KQ seem to use some sort of magic, but then the 'normal' townsfolk are not always the more prominent NPC's. 
Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Baggins on November 12, 2006, 11:17:01 AM
Well let me list magic wielding, cursed, or magial NPCs from various games and novels, forgive me if it isn't complete, I'm mostly going off the top of my head.

Well in KQ1, the only NPCs that use magic,(or are at least magical creatures) are Dahlia, the Sorcerer, the Leprechauns, the Fairy and the Elf(gives you a magic ring), gnome(straw into gold). All other NPCs either don't use magic, or you use magic to thwart/help them.


In KQ2 original version the magical NPCs are, Enchanter, Hagatha, Unicorn(gives you a magical sugar cube), maybe Dracula(his ability to turn into a bat is likely magical), good fairy, genie, presumably the Mermaids(they could allow graham to travel under water and still be able to breath), the magic talking gold-fish. Everyone else, was probably non-magical.

In KQ3, the only magic using NPCs are Medusa(ability to turn people to stone), Oracle, and Manannan, assuming the old gnome is the same one from KQ1(then its the same magical gnome). Everyone else seemed normal enough.

In KQ4, there is the fairies, 3 witches, and lolotte. In the intro id some dicussion of possibly magic prowess from the castle Physicians. Maybe ghosts, zombies, and mummy if you count those as magical in origin, rather than just paranormal, magic laying hen, frog prince(cursed by magic crown, though probably normal otherwise), Cupid(magic arrows), and unicorn(if you consider unicorns to be magical). Everyone else probably non-magical.

In KQ5, Gypsy Leader(wielded a magical staff, though probably normal otherwise), Old Hag, crispin, genie, Gnome(another straw into gold, possibly the same one from KQ1 according to the companion), Cedric(knew a bit of fairy magic), Madame Mushka, Queen Iceabella(had ability melt/freeze ice cage around cedric), Weeping Willow(cursed by magic, though not a magic user), Blue Beast(could make portals to the dungeon), Manannan(well he used to be able to use magic at least), and Mordack. Everyone else was probably not magical.

In Kq6, Genie, Abdul Alhazred(to what degree is unknown as it seemed he had his genie do most of his magic for him), Beast(cursed with magic, by a hag, and curse would spread to anyone else who came to the island), Lord of the Dead(ability to bring people back to life or take away life instantly), Oracle, and the Druids. People on Isle of the Crown seem to be normal enough (they mention there had only been one other wizard known on the island who poofed himself into an ardvark, Harun al Rashid), and refrence to Shadrack. Isle of wonder, well maybe magical creatures (one creation legend alleges they were created by a wizard), though possibly not able to use magic themselves. There are alot of magical elements on the Isle of the Beast but those are part of the Hag's curse.

KQ7(anyone from Etheria presumably since they are all fairies), Colin Farwalker (had some magical items, though unknown how much magic prowess he actually had),  Queen Mab, the cat(able to give an extra life), Count tsepish, his wife Elspeth, King Otar, and Mathilde,. Almost everyone in Ooga Booga has been given undead life(probably from magical origin). The creatures of Falderal don't seem to show any magical prowess but may be from magical origin. The world of Eldritch is a magical world so practically everything there is likely created from magic, or can use magic.

MoE, the Wizard, Azriel, Sylph, Lady of the Lake, Unicorn, Swamp Wisps, King Mudge,  Swamp Witch, Gnome Sage, Gnome Apothecary, Weirdling Shaman, Queen Freesa, the Archons, Lucretro, Henchmen(created through magic, have ability shape shift). Normal humans were turned into stone (except for a few that escaped the fate by getting into dimension of death), other races somehow were able to avoid that fate.

In the novel, Floating Castle, there is a witch, 3 wizards, one of the wizard's daughter, and a wizard's apprentice (his former master is even mentioned so that's 4 mentioned wizards altogether), and a fairy, castle physician(is mentioned to have some magical prowess). Everyone else is "normal".

In the novel Kingdom of Sorrow, there is the Fairies, Seer of Daventry, Efreeti Kuzgu, Gnomes(who have ability make magical clothing that "sticks" to the glass mountains, but nothing else for traction), the evil wizard Karn Megiddo. All the rest of the characters/creatures seem to have no prowess to use magic..

In See No Weevil, there is dicussion of gnomes have their own particular magic they can weave into whatever they make maybe not even knowing they do it. There is again discussion of at least knowledge of magical cures from the castle Physician. The fairies from the Old Wood show up again. Pied Piper has his own type of magic. Farquhar is a failed student at the magicians' academy and knows a limited number of spells. Dicussion of three "amous wizards from the past(Entomon Wilson, Sorcerer King, Ulan Vasx). All other characters are "normal".

Graham has some magical knowledge of iconomancy, Alexander has had quite a bit of experience using magic in his various adventures, Rosella has used some magical Devices and items. Derek Karlevagen claims to have dabbled in some magic himself.

Overall it seems that in relatively normal kingdom's, such as Daventry magic is usually more rare, so people are more impressed by it. In magical kingdoms like Eldritch encounters with magic is more common, so no one is suprised by it.



Title: Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
Post by: Petra Rocks on November 12, 2006, 12:13:24 PM
Baggins has returned!  :o Now vengence shall be ours, and Montezuma  will be avenged! La Noche Triste shall sound on the lips a Spaniards again, and the macuahuitl shall be forged anew!! We shall......


 Errr, why is everyone looking at me like that? Oh right. Ummm, too much sugar.  :P Anyway. Er. Yeah.

Quote
Overall it seems that in relatively normal kingdom's, such as Daventry magic is usually more rare, so people are more impressed by it.

 My guess is that if people are impressed by it, they don't see it on a regular basis.  Thus, I would guess 'magic' does not imporve the lives of Daventries citizens on a regular basis.  :)