the 1st chapter won't even be released. I don't want to say it yet, but ITYS is close.
I hope you guys finish this thing, but I've been saying since day 730 TSL probably will never happen outside of the demo we've already seen.
Beenutts, I completely understand your concern. But may I ask why you continue to visit the forum and voice your pessimism when we all know where you stand.
Unlike you, I am sure this game will eventually be released. You can easily sign up for the newsletter and keep up with things that happen. That way, once the game is released, you will hear that way. :)
Wait until the project is canceled for ITYS. ;) I am wholly ignorant of the internal workings, progress and state of the TSL project, and I thus shall not express an opinion that would be pure speculation in any case.
And since day 730? *This forum seriously needs a good chuckling smiley* Unless that has a slang meaning I am not aware of, you show a truly admirable recollection of the status of the TSL project and the time you have posted about it. I wish I had half as good a memory. ;D ;P
Quote from: Petra Rocks on April 16, 2007, 01:46:20 PM
And since day 730? *This forum seriously needs a good chuckling smiley* Unless that has a slang meaning I am not aware of, you show a truly admirable recollection of the status of the TSL project and the time you have posted about it. I wish I had half as good a memory. ;D ;P
Well, I've known about this project for a very long time (longer than most current members were a part of the team), and probably back in 2002 (I bet I found the original kq9 site at the end of 1999) I figured this project would never finish, and I expressed myself thus. The "since day 730" was just saying I didn't say it would be finished at day 1, just after 2 years of development, and not seeing any real progress and hearing the status of the project.
Games are hard to make, especially long, good ones. That's why i think this project bit of more than it could chew.
I just don't understand the reasoning. They've come this far, why would they quit now? Talk about a waste of their own time and resources.
Quote from: PirateKingChris on April 17, 2007, 07:26:55 PM
I just don't understand the reasoning. They've come this far, why would they quit now? Talk about a waste of their own time and resources.
Don't mind beernutts. He always comes in once or twice a year to complain about the game. We've gotten used to him by now. :P
Quote from: Yonkey on April 17, 2007, 08:35:30 PM
Don't mind beernutts. He always comes in once or twice a year to complain about the game. We've gotten used to him by now. :P
Yeah, I've grown an attachment to him. I'd miss him if he didn't come back. XD
I noticed from reading the entirety of the "Progress?" thread. It's just obnoxious to complain about people spending their time to do something for a large group of people FOR FREE and then to get complaints about it.
Actually, I certainly would not mind paying for The Silver Lining if it helped to rush the project and make it even better. I think it would be sweet if Sierra suddenly decided to make it an official King's Quest 9 and put their resources behind it to help the project as long as Sierra does not completely change the project and decides to just add their expertise and monetary support.
8)
Quote from: PirateKingChris on April 17, 2007, 08:54:29 PM
I noticed from reading the entirety of the "Progress?" thread. It's just obnoxious to complain about people spending their time to do something for a large group of people FOR FREE and then to get complaints about it.
Find one place where I've "complained". I've never complained. I've expressed my pessimism about the project being completed. I saw some hope when they had the voice auditions. I saw some hope when they released the demo (although, that hope fell once I played the demo). But, this project they've undertaken is just too massive for there development crew. I mean, MAYBE chapter 1 will be released, but the other chapters are almost assuredly not going to be finished. Just being realistic.
You ask how they can come so long and just quit. If you've ever done any game development yourself, you'd realize there's so much motiviation at the start of a project. As a project drags on and on, the motivation falls. It's just a reality of development. And this project is the definition of dragging on. (For a real world example, google Duke Nukem Forever, started in 1997, still not complete. I saw the demo of this game in 1998 at E3).
I also end my posts with the hope this game finishes, just not the assumption it will. Good luck to the group, wake me when it's finished.
Well your impatience comes across as complaining, to me anyway.
Quote from: PirateKingChris on April 25, 2007, 12:36:09 PM
Well your impatience comes across as complaining, to me anyway.
Show me my impatience? I might have been impatient for this game in 2002 or 2003, but in 2007, give me a break. I rarely check the site any more, and when I do, I just checked the developers diaries for any updates, and then leave.
Quote from: PirateKingChris on April 17, 2007, 07:26:55 PM
I just don't understand the reasoning. They've come this far, why would they quit now? Talk about a waste of their own time and resources.
Aye.
But don't worry Pirate, I appreciate your support and do know you are in the right thought about it (AKA we haven't quit). Beernuts, unless Phoenix Online Studios make any announcement you can keep on just being yourself, but when it comes to addressing things to
other forum members keep in mind you were once banned from the forums because people kept reporting you.
Needless to say, and this goes to everyone, be civil or take it outside of the forums. No one has done anything wrong, this is just a friendly reminder. Thanks.
Quoteut when it comes to addressing things to other forum members keep in mind you were once banned from the forums because people kept reporting you.
Needless to say, and this goes to everyone, be civil or take it outside of the forums. No one has done anything wrong, this is just a friendly reminder. Thanks.
I think I've been civil to everyone I've ever encounter on this board. I'm sorry I give you the impression I'm vile towards everyone here; I don't mean to.
I actually consider a certitude of either the project's failure or success to be somewhat illogical. And no, my ears are not pointy, before anyone asks. :suffer:
Quote from: PirateKingChris on April 17, 2007, 08:54:29 PM
I noticed from reading the entirety of the "Progress?" thread. It's just obnoxious to complain about people spending their time to do something for a large group of people FOR FREE and then to get complaints about it.
I don't see why you think this is so hard to understand. Nobody is complaining because someone offered to do something for them. Let me give you an analogy.
Let's say that someone offered to pick you up from the airport. You are very grateful for their offer and you wait for their arrival. When they don't show up, you become concerned and call the person and leave a message asking "are you coming"? They text message you back saying "yes, I am coming, just wait right there". So you wait, and after a long time, they don't show. You become concerned again, so you call again and leave a message asking "where are you"? You get a text message back only saying, "I am coming, wait right there". After several rounds of this you will become frustrated and wondering if they will ever show up. You constantly ask where they are or how long will it be, but you only get the "I'm coming, wait right there text message".
Do you understand now what people are complaining about? It is the fact that they are left hanging without any explanation. They feel that it was nice of them to offer to make the game, but if they can't do it...at least have the decency to tell us so. Or at the very least tell us what is going on or what the status is if they still think they can still make the game. People don't like to be ignored nor have their emotions toyed with.
That actually goes both ways, rbadala. Some of you would find it rather amusing just to sit down and point out things, while we on the other side who have spent years on this are being told different things that are way far from the truth. I'm not saying you are doing it, I'm stating a fact after pages of the length of this thread. Sadly, no one seems to understand such but those who truly sympathize with the staffers, and it's not because they get insight material, it's because they believe in us still.
Then there's where the nasty comments get started, because everyone's got an opinion about everything and even though you haven't been asked to, you will share it anyways. I have been here long enough to know that by heart, otherwise I wouldn't have posted what I did.
Just for the record, and this is not pointed at anyone (I must add disclaimers all over my posts because people tend to get it personal when I reply or address specific issues. No it's not at anyone in particular, not even beernuts! <3 and it if were I would write down their names if needed):
No one is ignoring anyone here, no one is toying with anyone's feelings, I have replied more than plenty to everyone and more than once (people do ask the same and different ones have got the same reply as well, and I'm only human I can't physically reply the same thing every single time it's being asked). Sadly, if it's not enough by far, that's all there is.
If we haven't announced a damn thing yet is because we can't, that doesn't mean we are done, or we quit or the project has stopped. Make of it as you will, I cannot repeat the same thing over and over just for the sake of it.
Oh Beernuts, I never said you did anything wrong. So no need to apologize :)
Now if you all excuse me, I need more coffee to brighten up my day. Cheers! :D
I was just seeing alot of negativity going on, maybe it's just me and I was reading into it wrong, but as far as I'm concerned, the game is done when it's done. It takes time to do constant updates instead of working on the game, and all the developers have lives, so leave them be.
I'm glad that you are so patient, PK. I know I've been around since 2003, and I've seen a lot of development since then. Yes, I know it's taking a while, but as PK said, the developers have lives...and they have lots going on in their lives. Of just the mods in the forum, I'm about to graduate with a master's degree (yes, I've made time to be a mod and complete a master's degree in speech pathology) and Jason is in school. I talked to Say for a few minutes today, and she's got a lot going on. Neil has just finished college. Alex is finishing up...and the list goes on and on and on. All this to say that none of us are being paid, so while we work on this because we love it and want to complete the game...it's not our 40 hour/week job. Thus, if something comes up that's more important, we obviously work on it.
That said...I've put off working on a final exam all day...oopsy.
So, Cat is it logical to think that Shadows will be released many years from now because the team is so busy with their own lives --- right?! I just want this to be clear to all the fans so they do not get their hopes up and think it will be released this year or certainly not by summer as Rosella hopes. I applaud the team for all the work they have done but it certainly would be nice to have some sort of time table. I would be happier to see a time line that said Shadows will be released in 2015 and then at least a goal is set rather than just having a hope that some day the project will be finished but having no idea when it will be done. It is like homework in school or a project for your job that must be done by a certain date and then you just make sure that it is done by that date. I think all the fans deserve a date whether it is a year or two or ten+ years in the future. Just my two cents for what it is worth!
Not necessarily. Just because we have lives does not mean the game will take until 2015. Also when you say fans getting their hopes up, you can't be referring to all fans because there are a few that seem to understand how the team is working through the project. Rosella hopes to see a Summer release, but she knows that the team won't necessarily have it done by then.
The problem with naming a specific release date now is that we couldn't possibly know in advance how accurate that date would be in terms of the first part of the game being ready for the public. The date is, and will always be "as soon as humanly possible".
Quote from: dew7 on April 26, 2007, 11:43:27 PM
So, Cat is it logical to think that Shadows will be released many years from now because the team is so busy with their own lives --- right?!
Love how I was misquoted. Yes, the team has things going on in their lives, but I did not say that it would take nine years to be released. As you've been on this forum for so long, you know the team has stated over and over "it will be done when it's done" as well as them saying that they are working hard on the game. Yes, real life gets in the way, but it does NOT bring the game development to a stop.
...I haven't been referred to as Rosella in FOREVER. :P
But here's a small piece of wisdom I recieved when I was very little.
"If there's anything I wish for you, it's that you could hope, but not expect."
I have an idea!!!!!
Instead of a release day a percentage bar of how the game goes.
If something big is done then jumps 5%....everyone cheers, if someone computers crash and loss date then drop 15% everyone hits their head in utter dismay.
Once it reach 100, the the company ispect it and we see how much percentage drop!!!
After that we hit our heads in the wall for each percentage that it drops.
According to this theory, people will hit their heads enought to get brain damage and they would take forver to finish the game.
Just in case I am just jocking, Law School finals are really getting to me
Ahh the joys of status battles. We've got the "they have lives" crowd, the "it'll be done when it's done" group, the "I told you so" campaign, the "it takes too much time to post status" entourage, the "I love you all, this is what I did today" minions, the "damn I didn't know this thing was still alive" clique, and of course the "wake me when it's ready" festival.
It's true...it'll be done when it's done. With that in mind, most people will go do something productive (or not), and one day find a notice or catch wind of a new KQ game to download.
It's not true that making a status update takes too much time, and saying that developers have their own lives is not a valid excuse. I get the sentiment, but it's really just code for "I don't want to make an update, so I won't."
The only real problem is this open-ended development period. This isn't a paid project, and that's clear to see by the abuse of "done when it's done." I don't fault the team for planning without deadlines, so people shouldn't be expecting any.
If waiting for the game is such a hassel or burden, go play another game...there are plenty out there. Of course, a project without a definitive end is more of just a hobby than a real goal. The game is what it is...no more, no less...so just wait or move on...don't lose sleep over a proposal.
Hear Hear!
Very well stated, GunHoMac :)
Quote from: riveraeg on April 27, 2007, 05:51:52 PM
According to this theory, people will hit their heads enought to get brain damage and they would take forver to finish the game.
I <3 it!
Quote from: GunHoMac on April 27, 2007, 06:38:56 PM
Ahh the joys of status battles. We've got the "they have lives" crowd, the "it'll be done when it's done" group, the "I told you so" campaign, the "it takes too much time to post status" entourage, the "I love you all, this is what I did today" minions, the "damn I didn't know this thing was still alive" clique, and of course the "wake me when it's ready" festival.
It's true...it'll be done when it's done. With that in mind, most people will go do something productive (or not), and one day find a notice or catch wind of a new KQ game to download.
It's not true that making a status update takes too much time, and saying that developers have their own lives is not a valid excuse. I get the sentiment, but it's really just code for "I don't want to make an update, so I won't."
The only real problem is this open-ended development period. This isn't a paid project, and that's clear to see by the abuse of "done when it's done." I don't fault the team for planning without deadlines, so people shouldn't be expecting any.
If waiting for the game is such a hassel or burden, go play another game...there are plenty out there. Of course, a project without a definitive end is more of just a hobby than a real goal. The game is what it is...no more, no less...so just wait or move on...don't lose sleep over a proposal.
The fact that this is a "not-for-profit" game and there is no "time-to-market" changes things a bit. It actually makes it possible to include fans on what is going on internally.
It is clear that is has not happened for many reasons.
There are no doubt some very talented people working on this project. But sometimes, I forget how young many of the people are, that they are asked to, or volunteering for roles that they don't have the proper experience for. Such is the case for volunteer work.
The fact that the team is not working full time and under many roofs, makes communication difficult. And there are clearly communications problems with-in the team. The people demanding more updates are simply "beating a dead horse". Asking the web or PR director for updates is useless. Normally it wouldn't be, but here it is. They don't know anything. Unless they are being fed information from someone in Cesar's position (who may or may not be MIA), they don't know what to tell you. Unfortunately, they have to make stuff up, as is human nature. Which only leads to a circular path.
Some fans seem to be so afraid that if updates were given, nobody would be working on the game. Don't worry, there are people whose roles handle this sort of thing, they are just not functioning properly right now. Updates would not delay the game.
I find the "it will get done, when it gets done" people amusing. They always seem to leave the "if it gets done" off at the end. (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn't communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory. Which just fuels the fire. This of course does go both ways, and the nasty fans don't help matters.
It is a complicated project that has many gaps folks.
By-the-way, if a director wishes to post in the journal and they are really short on time... Perhaps it would be better to write less about their personal life, and more about the tasks on their plate, and how their work is being integrated with the work from other departments. Cesar is the only person from my point of view who would possible knows where the project is at. The art director could only tell us about the art department, if he wanted to.
Quote from: rbadala on April 29, 2007, 07:05:26 AM
I find the "it will get done, when it gets done" people amusing. They always seem to leave the "if it gets done" off at the end. (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn't communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.
I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.
"If it gets done" is still a valid question. Whether from an optimistic or pessimistic standpoint, everyone at some point wonders the "when" or "if" of the end goal.
Probably more pertinent is not "if" or "when" it gets done, but "what" will it be "if" or "when" it's done. The demo itself was a nice presentation, but from a playability and look-and-feel standpoint...it was pretty bad.
I admire the people who say "it'll get done when it's done" and they're here to stay until the bitter end. I also sympathize with the "I told you so crowd." The reason these two factions exist is because the development team and temporary PR department have made it that way. People react to things the way you present them. If you want people to panic, then yell "FIRE!" If you want people to have faith in your product, then promote something worthy of it. If you want people second-guessing the production, effort, and direction...spend time telling people about how you can't make updates rather than actually making them.
Everyone makes their own choice here...choose to support and wait, choose to ridicule and question...choose to ignore and wander...choose to promote or don't. All sides have an angle here, and not one of them is unreasonable. KQ9 is what you make it, and right now...it's just a forum.
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on April 29, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: rbadala on April 29, 2007, 07:05:26 AM
I find the "it will get done, when it gets done" people amusing. They always seem to leave the "if it gets done" off at the end. (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn't communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.
I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.
No need to be sorry. I didn't have you specifically in mind, as I have seen that phrase many times. If you did use that phrase...
Maybe you don't think (or meant to be) derogatory, but if you read carefully when that phrase was used, it was perceived that way, and understandably so. After all, that phrase does not communicate anything useful. It will be interpreted as another way of telling people to shut up.
There seems to be lots of misunderstandings all over the place on this board. Like when you claimed to be misquoted Koko, when in fact, you were never quoted at all.
And no, there is nothing wrong with being an optimist or a pessimist for that matter. I personally try to avoid these two extremes though.
I'm just gonna say one thing.
THe game will only be released when we are happy with it. We are not going to released a half-baked game. Just when we are happy with it we'll put it out. In the meanwhile, if you think that it will never be released, think again. We are still here and still working on making it as good as we can.
Quote from: rbadala on April 29, 2007, 12:58:10 PM
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on April 29, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: rbadala on April 29, 2007, 07:05:26 AM
I find the "it will get done, when it gets done" people amusing. They always seem to leave the "if it gets done" off at the end. (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn't communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.
I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.
No need to be sorry. I didn't have you specifically in mind, as I have seen that phrase many times. If you did use that phrase...
Maybe you don't think (or meant to be) derogatory, but if you read carefully when that phrase was used, it was perceived that way, and understandably so. After all, that phrase does not communicate anything useful. It will be interpreted as another way of telling people to shut up.
There seems to be lots of misunderstandings all over the place on this board. Like when you claimed to be misquoted Koko, when in fact, you were never quoted at all.
And no, there is nothing wrong with being an optimist or a pessimist for that matter. I personally try to avoid these two extremes though.
Thank you for clearing that up that I did not quote Koko. Well, it looks like the game release is still far in the future. Thanks!
Quote from: dew7 on April 29, 2007, 02:50:49 PM
Thank you for clearing that up that I did not quote Koko. Well, it looks like the game release is still far in the future. Thanks!
Question: has anyone said that the game release is far in the future? And, what is considered far? Now, I want to clear up that I do not know the release date, so no hounding me people :P But I don't think anyone has said that the release is a LONG time from now.
Quote from: rbadala on April 29, 2007, 07:05:26 AM
The fact that the team is not working full time and under many roofs, makes communication difficult. And there are clearly communications problems with-in the team. The people demanding more updates are simply "beating a dead horse". Asking the web or PR director for updates is useless. Normally it wouldn't be, but here it is. They don't know anything. Unless they are being fed information from someone in Cesar's position (who may or may not be MIA), they don't know what to tell you. Unfortunately, they have to make stuff up, as is human nature. Which only leads to a circular path.
I'm rather amused by the assumptions of a complete random stranger explicitly saying what I know or I do not know as a PR Director. Or how it works within the team's communication, being that Cesar throughout the years has become a very close friend and we even talk on the phone on a weekly basis about pretty much everything. And this is only of the many friendships that have been built here, needless to say I bet there are others that communicate even much more frequent than we would know of. And regardless of our time differences, email would be the way to go to keep everyone connected, IF we can't meet for whatever needed reason that particular moment.
I need to clarify this,
and this goes to everyone who might feel just like rbadala, I am the link from whatever your frustrated rants are to the people that is in the other end working day and night on this game. The fact that I won't write down exactly what you want to hear at the moment you want to hear it, doesn't mean it's useless or that I do not know what's going on.
My gradma use to say
1) Don't eat to much chocolate
2) Don't hit your head too hard on the table
3) Don't look a gifthourse at the mouth
When I was a little kid, I never understood this because if someone gave me a hourse why? Would I look at it on the mouth is not that I am kissing it?
Anyway, being "serious" for a secound we have to apreciate the team for all the work that they have place in the project. The project I see it as a gift from this people to us and I don't think is fair to secound guess their decisions. Do people want to be informed more, sure....everyone wants more information, but the fact is that sometimes people don't inform us because everything that is happening is normal. Sometimes no news is good news. I for example would not want a update saying "Screen 12093 of 15000 was updated because we change color 1235 with color 1987." I mean sometimes updates don't happen because interesting thing don't happen.
The percetage bar thing that I mentioned was a joke, something so people can laught and be braindead for a moment. Also I think to myself how can people give updates. The game is going to take a medium time to finish. What is medium time, or long time what is considered a long time. Sometimes words are very subjective and it might be hard to tell people updates whitout being miscouted. Trust me talk to the press and you see how your words change to something out of context.
In short, the PR deparment does a good job here, I would apreciate if I can have more wallapers to choose from. but that is not important. For me giving an "update" is not as important as macking sure that the team spends time with their family. Besides if people want the game "so" bad. They can try and make their own or try to buy King Quest from the company and hire 5000000000 programers to make it quick. I know I can't afford that....yet....just kidding.
In short we should apreciate that we have a forum, wallpapers, and stuff like that to enjoy in the meantime. Would I want like a pin ball game of KQ IX, yes but it not important. Sometimes the journey and the process is more important than the ending.
The thing is that this project has been going on for a long time and sure the team has run into hitches regarding the IP of King's Quest but the reason I think the game will still take many years is because it needs to be just right in the team's eyes and that this project is a huge undertaking. Furthermore, TSL team is writing a game from scratch and not just updating a game like infamous adventures or AGD. However, I give AGD a lot of credit because their King's Quest II+ feels like a new game in many ways. Finally, the game must meet Vivendi's approval before being available for the fans. So Cat and all others these are my supporting reasons for why I do not expect even Shadows in the near future (the next year or two).
The game will take a long time to finish, and long means several years from now. That can't be disputed based on the performance up to this point. If you want to know how things are going, look at how things have gone so far...the answer...long.
Also, reporting/updating/hinting/etc... have nothing to do with making sure people spend time with their families. That's like telling people to stop doing homework or business proposals because they have a family. If you want to get something done, you make a choice on how much effort you're willing to put into it.
With Cesar's reply, it's apparent they want (or at least he wants) to put a lot of effort into making this game look and play great. When you strive for perfection, it's going to take a long time. However, just saying you want something done perfectly doesn't mean anything is getting done.
Personally, I don't mind if it takes 12 days or 12 years...the only problem is the 12 years finish line is a possibility, and no one would ever know....except that they waited 12 more years until it was done.
I think 12 is quite a stretch. I don't see how it could even be half that "based on the performance up to this point".
I don't consider myself an optimist, but I feel pretty confident there will be a game. There is a legitimate "if" to everything, but that doesn't give it credibility or make it likely to happen.
They have proved they can do it with the demo, and to me, all the work we've seen including this site shows some commitment to doing it. Also, they may not be able to or just not want to give you the current status of everything, but they are almost always here and willing to listen and respond to anybody which does add some accountability. I think that should be enough even for a skeptic to be convinced it probably will happen.
"Expect only what happens in a fight. That way you will never be suprised." Duncan Idaho in Frank Herbert's Dune.
Goes for more than swordplay. ;)
never fear! TSL will come out with their entire trilogy in good time. :suffer: