The Journal Special's stated purpose is to deal with the pessimists and naysayers who come here to complain, but it might have quite the opposite effect: one major complaint those people often make is that most 'updates' aren't about the game's progress but about the forum & fan community (e.g. contests, fannatics etc.) As far as they're concerned this is just another update that tells them absolutely nothing.Well, the idea was to show how many intricate parts there are to developing this game. It's one thing to say the plot is 2,000 pages long and x% complete, and another thing to show how and why the plot was developed the way it was. The goal of this special isn't to give a progress report, it's to show how TSL is being developed. :)
Another point they might make is that a guide which presumes to tell people how to make a game is better published by someone who, uh, actually made a game.The TSL Public Demo is a game published by us, and the majority of content described in the Journal Special is based on material from that game.
IMO, the best way of dealing with pessimists, flamers and nags who just drop by to say "it'll never be finished", is to let sleeping dogs lie. No need to wake them up and remind them you exist by sending newsletters that don't interest them - honestly, people outside this forum couldn't care less who won the beta testing contest.If the Newsletter doesn't interest them, they are free to unsubscribe from it at any time. The purpose of sending out a Newsletter is to inform people about the latest TSL updates. Yes, there may be people who aren't interested in all the updates, but there may also be people who become interested because of the updates. For example, I've noticed a lot of recent guests checking out the thread with the screenshots, despite them being released 7-12 months ago. :P
If you told them you're actually going beta and recruiting testers, that might interest them because it shows progress. If you told them 3 complete strangers are going to be beta testers in some unspecified time in the future, it will only serve to aggravate them.I believe I wrote: "There will be another Beta Testing contest held later this year open to everyone." Also, the winners are hardly "complete strangers". I mentioned they're TSL Fannatics... and people interested in knowing what a Fannatic is would click the link on the Home page that says "Fannatic" on it. From there, they'd discover who these 3 are, if they were that jealous, of course. ;P
In my experience in reading (and sometimes participating in) such debates in this forum, telling people how hard you're working on the game isn't going to persuade anyone who isn't persuaded already. What's worse, those who aren't persuaded usually see that as an attempt to excuse lack of progress.The special itself wasn't solely intended for the 4 or 5 people that whine about lack of progress. It was more for the 3700+ people that would actually appreciate it.
Personally, I've gotten sick of saying the same things over and over, to the point where I can't even be bothered to read their rants anymore. They provided me with the motivation to do the special, but they're not the reason why I'm doing it. 8)
There's a reason why debates like that are impossible to win (no, not just the one in my sig), so there's no point bothering with anything more than giving the mundane response over and over.
Just my two cents.
Well, the idea was to show how many intricate parts there are to developing this game. It's one thing to say the plot is 2,000 pages long and x% complete, and another thing to show how and why the plot was developed the way it was. The goal of this special isn't to give a progress report, it's to show how TSL is being developed. :)
Another point they might make is that a guide which presumes to tell people how to make a game is better published by someone who, uh, actually made a game.The TSL Public Demo is a game published by us, and the majority of content described in the Journal Special is based on material from that game.
If the Newsletter doesn't interest them, they are free to unsubscribe from it at any time. The purpose of sending out a Newsletter is to inform people about the latest TSL updates.
Yes, there may be people who aren't interested in all the updates, but there may also be people who become interested because of the updates. For example, I've noticed a lot of recent guests checking out the thread with the screenshots, despite them being released 7-12 months ago. :P
I believe I wrote: "There will be another Beta Testing contest held later this year open to everyone."
Also, the winners are hardly "complete strangers". I mentioned they're TSL Fannatics... and people interested in knowing what a Fannatic is would click the link on the Home page that says "Fannatic" on it. From there, they'd discover who these 3 are, if they were that jealous, of course. ;P
The special itself wasn't solely intended for the 4 or 5 people that whine about lack of progress. It was more for the 3700+ people that would actually appreciate it.
Personally, I've gotten sick of saying the same things over and over, to the point where I can't even be bothered to read their rants anymore. They provided me with the motivation to do the special, but they're not the reason why I'm doing it. 8)
That's my point - you're not giving a progress report and you're not really saying anything new about the game, which is what most ranters are ranting about.You're forgetting that even if it was a progress report and said something new about the game, ranters would still rant because the game is not out. As I said before, the purpose of the special wasn't to please whiners. If it does, then that's great, but the special is intended for people that would actually appreciate reading it. :)
Most non-forumers subscribe to the newsletter so they can get updates about the game, not about what’s going on in the website and the forum. Sure, they can unsubscribe, but then the newsletter will be defeating its own purpose, which is to keep people updated even if they don’t want to keep checking the TSL site & forum.I think the only time I sent out a Newsletter that actually talked about the game itself was when the VU incident happened. Every other Newsletter talked about website-related updates, events and/or contests. The Newsletter itself does keep people updated & informed. It's simple: people that find the news interesting will visit the site, and people that don't, won't. :scholar:
That only goes to prove my point – people want to see if there are new screenshots released. Since there aren’t any, their next stop will be ranting on the feedback forum ;PRanters will always find something to rant about. It's their job. If they didn't have anything to complain about, they might lose their reputation. :P
Ahh, but people want dates! Saying “there will be a public beta testing contest in the foreseeable future” isn’t really news worthy of a newsletter. It didn’t even get a headline. Saying “public beta testing contest opens today!” is something people are more likely to be interested in.Heh, of course it's something they're more likely to be interested in, but the only date they'll be getting at this point in time is: :suffer: Obviously, I'd send out a Newsletter the day the public beta testing contest opens. But that day is not today. :P
Of course they are no strangers to us ;) But you do have to consider that most people, and TSL bashers in particular, aren’t really interested in knowing who and what the fannatics are.If they're not interested in knowing who and what they are, they shouldn't be aggravated by them winning either. :P
It might very well be that 3700+ people would enjoy the journal special, but your expressed purpose (stated in the journal) is to show those 4-5 whiners why it’s taking so long. My point is that your efforts will be lost on them.Actually, the effort isn't lost on them because the special does answer the question "why is the game taking so long?". The question the Special doesn't answer is "how far along are you?". However, the purpose of the special wasn't to answer that second question anyway. That should have been obvious from the title of the special.
Oh come on, it’s not that bad! Look at the bright side of it – if people bother coming here and rant (even if they are offensive and insulting), it means they still care. I’d hate to see the day people give up asking “when will it be done?” (or saying “It will NEVER get done! I feel it in my bones”) :PWell, they could easily show their care in a non-offensive manner if they chose to. Or better yet, they could show they care by actually listening to what we've been telling them over and over again. Being offensive only increases their chances of getting banned. :P
I haven't gotten to the Isle of the Beast yet either. I'm currently breathing down the Oracles' cutscene-neck, but exited every time to refine a bug report.
The quality of the graphics IS quite amazing, and I'm running at a near full-screen resolution. (Won't do full-screen, as I'd have to Alt-Tab to switch from that window to the bug reporting tool-window).
XD I haven't exited the castle yet! I keep finding things! I need to try Alt-Tabbing, 'cuz if I press the windows key the game crashes and I can't get back in.The Windoze key is evil, stay away from that and only use it as a last resort! Why are you running full-screen? However, are you SURE those things you find haven't been reported yet? I've been a long time in the Castle too and filed numerous bug reports. 8)
This month's entry is far FROM weak - those screenshots, and even more so the sketches too, look AMAZING!XD Well, the "weak/character" thing was just a pun for the next entry. ;B I actually really enjoyed looking through past artwork and seeing all the phases.
And, I just noticed today that the entries were looking pretty hideous in IE. :P I've now fixed it so that people with IE see them the same way Firefox users do. :)Serves people right for using IE to browse. IE is evil's spawn! :suffer:
Academy Award-winning actress, Jennifer Connelly, who was a perfect insipration for the role.Never heard of her. ;B
Cassima respectfully declined our request to do any kind of nude modeling.Ah, shoot. :P
PS: See if you find the spelling error. :scholar:Wow, that's pretty hard to spot even with your quote! :o Thanks for spottin' it, and it's now fixed. 8)
Wow, that's pretty hard to spot even with your quote! :o Thanks for spottin' it, and it's now fixed. 8)Haven't you noticed all the issues I've been posting about differences between the transcripts and the spoken words? Told you I had an 'eye for detail'! 8)
aww, no paragraph written in 1337 HaXz0r format? :PLOL, sorry no. Maybe next time... or never. :P
on another note, I am in love with "Valanice Sleeps" orchestrated version :sweetheart:Same here, I like how certain parts sound like they're from a musicbox or something. :)
Some of it was familiar...some not. I'll have to listen more carefully :)
I know, I'm always sad when scenes DON'T have music.You can blame Cesar for that. XD He still hasn't sent me a list of what song goes with what scene. :P
Great music, great entry!
GRRR! *is still pondering puzzles with A3P*We'll figure them out. Eventually.
Yes, yes we will. But without the help of the team...they just go: :suffer: ::)
but then the forumers would kill us
There's a subtle, but appreciable, difference from the previous ones I had used. 8)
We don't really need to guess... he's based on Harrison Ford :scholar:
And as far as my senility goes, Valanice is somewhat based on Julianne Moore and Edgar is based on the late Heath Ledger. I can't remember who Alex and Rosella are based on, maybe they're not based on anyone in particular.
This is again, another original. He was supposed to be based from Joaquin Phoenix (villain in Gladiator), but he turned into an original.
Can these people sue you for using their pics?
...or the Bros. Chaps might very well have given permission.
What about Trogdor? The Brother Chaps could sue, you know. ::)
...or the Bros. Chaps might very well have given permission.
Nah. TSL and Bros. Chaps are in direct competition. Ever play Peasant's Quest? :P
I have... but I don't really see it as competition. :P I know that the Bros. Chaps have an okay working relationship with the people at nuklearpower (Brian Clevinger et al.); they seem amiable enough to the web community at large (of which TSL is a member).
For those wondering, Journal Entry #5 got a bit delayed because April was a pretty hectic month. Hopefully, it'll get posted sometime tomorrow.
Thank you for the update. I was looking for it today too! :)Me three! :P
XD I had a laughing fit at that which almost resulted in milk all over the place:P I didn't want to mention any names, but I think we all know which characters have excruciating voices. XD
I LOVE the audition clip! Mr. Jason Victor... WOW! Those were incredible reads, both of those were cold readings? Geez. :oI believe so. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when they had them, so this is the first time I've seen Jason's audition as well. ;D
And now I know what SFX means... :P *goes to update a bug* XDAll this time you didn't know?! XD Actually, speaking of bugs... I noticed those cool voice SFX from the Oracle Sequence were present in the Public Demo, but no longer exist in the current build. The echo is there, but the actual sounds seem to be missing. It was all in one large audio file back then, and now it's separated, so that may have had something to do with it.
I think it's even funnier that way than if you'd referenced by name XDXD I had a laughing fit at that which almost resulted in milk all over the place:P I didn't want to mention any names, but I think we all know which characters have excruciating voices. XD
I know I'm probably the only one whom the grammar mistake in the oracle's voice clip bothers.
It should be "seek him", not "seek he". :P
As in: "I cannot help your further mortal, but there is one who may. Seek him who rules the Isle of the Mists"? It doesn't quite sound right to me though, since she never actually named the guy.
Yes, you are absolutely not alone in this.I know I'm probably the only one whom the grammar mistake in the oracle's voice clip bothers.
You're not. :P
Are you a clone?and
Graham goes webcamLOL! ;D
I specifically liked:lol, that screenshot was taken years ago, back when we couldn't get any other characters to appear in the engine besides Graham. XB As for the webcam, I have no idea where that came from! :PQuoteAre you a clone?andQuoteGraham goes webcamLOL! ;D
Did you guys intentionally put the dialogue test box right in front of the castle so we couldn't see it?Yup! :suffer: :P
Not sure, but I think we're doing something with xbox's :PXD! That sounds pretty awesome! Be sure to let us know how it goes. ;D
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Listen Up!" talks about sound effects and ambience used in the game. Check it out! 8)
I thought the sound of the rain in the abandoned village square sounded great. Will there be a selection for sitting and just listening to the rain? :P j/k.lol, well, there are volume sliders for: music, voice and SFX. The SFX slider plays ambience and sound effects, so if you really want to only hear that, you can! ;P
These journals are really very interesting ;D
Makes me even more excited for my game programming class this fall !!!I got one of my game programming books today, and I got excited when I saw a section on the history of gaming with a page on Sierra and King's Quest XD XD
I take back my broken link report. It's been fixed!lol, yeah I actually noticed the broken link myself and fixed it as soon as I spotted it. :P
I feel honored - my bug report made the journal entry! !!! That one's pretty funny ;DHehe yep. I would have shown the attached screenshot as well, but it's a little too suggestive. XB
Now that you mention it, it IS a bit suggestive, isn't it? ;]I feel honored - my bug report made the journal entry! !!! That one's pretty funny ;DHehe yep. I would have shown the attached screenshot as well, but it's a little too suggestive. XB
You guys are worse than my dad when it comes to teasing us. :P XD
When the game is out, can we finally see this "suggestive" picture you're all so fascinated by...?I hope not. If you still see it once the game is out, it means it never got fixed! :P
And sorry, I didn't know what else to call you...Don't be, I don't mind at all. I just find it amusing; I've gotten so used to everyone calling me Tess or Tessy. :)
Just to let everyone know, the next journal entry won't get posted until next weekend at the earliest.How DARE you, Yonkey! BOOOO!!!! ;P
Hey! Be nice to Yonkey. He works hard!Just to let everyone know, the next journal entry won't get posted until next weekend at the earliest.How DARE you, Yonkey! BOOOO!!!! ;P
I'm definitely glad we have Redmine - it seems much better than the previous options!Yup! Even though we're not really using Redmine to its full potential, it's still a vast improvement over any of the previous systems we've used in the past.
We were having problems, particularly with file sharing and knowing what the most updated version was, with our adventure game for game programming class, and we only have 3 people on a very small project.I've also had that problem with group projects in University. Usually we had to just divide up the project into pieces and eventually e-mail them all to one person to combine them all together. For my final project, our group (of 5 people) used Subversion and since TSL had been using it for several months at the time, it was pretty simply to use. At work, we use CVS, but it's almost identical to SVN.
So I suppose you guys now use the wiki?We stopped using the wiki once we started using Redmine, which was just over a year ago.
I'm guessing Yonkey already has a pretty good idea of what people want to know, since people have been asking questions about the project for years (and I think release date has to be #1)! He might be willing to entertain additional questions, though.It should be part about that.
I wouldn't be so sure about that! Having played the game, I can guarantee that once you get through it, you'll be wanting to know what comes next!! What I've seen so far creates WAY more questions than it answers! :suffer:It'sIts use however has slowed considering spoiler's aren't so much a concern anymore. Now that the game is coming very close to release, spoilers are a thing of the past.
I really liked the musical piece at the beginning of the first demo, with all the violins in it. I hope you're keeping it in the game!Yup, the same piece is used in the full game when exploring the Castle of the Crown.
I liked the music but i hardly cared about it after 10 minutes in, it just sounded all the same to me tbh.There is different background music for different places/times. I think it's kind of like in the movies - a lot of times, you're not really aware of the music, but it contributes a lot to the feel of the game.
What's the face book web address?Do a group search for "TSL Phoenicians".
and I hope they mention the Non disclosure agreement that beta testers had to sign and its facts and details once the agreement expiresThe NDA never expires, even for people that leave the team. There is a portion of the entry that discusses the rationality behind having the NDA though.
and I hope they mention the Non disclosure agreement that beta testers had to sign and its facts and details once the agreement expires, or the game or a public beta is released, whichever is sooner. :)Clause 1: Thou shalt not (REMOVED)
Hurrah! We'll have the game by May 2010! :D
For Vivendi, that is. ::)Hurrah! We'll have the game by May 2010! :DThat's May 2009 ;)
I'm giving Vivendi a maximum of one year to make up their minds as to whether the game's approved. XDOMG! if they are crazy enough to delay it 2 ******* years.....
Yay! Great entry, Yonkey! (Except the spelling is imminent, not immanent. :P)I knew it wasn't looking right for some reason! Thanks. It's now fixed. :P
To be entirely realistic, there will still be a LOT of people who will say it will never be released. They'll say the momentum is done and parts 2 and 3 won't be released. :POh... I just realized I forgot to include a very important section on Parts 2 and 3. I've now updated the article.
Oh... I just realized I forgot to include a very important section on Parts 2 and 3. I've now updated the article.
I believe when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains.
Faith manages...
Animan
Does this mean at the end we will get a half finished game with no clear ending? :wall:We have added a few minor things to Chapter 2 to make the ending slightly more satisfying than it was before, but obviously it's not quite the same as ending with Chapter 3, or Chapters 4-9.
I understand the amount of work this project requires but storywise we would all like to know how it would end. Will you at least release the story of chapters 3-9 after the game release?
So we may get Chapter 3 in some form, but we'll never get 4-9?Correct. The little work done on Chapter 3 at least gives us something to work from. The other Chapters have barely any work done on them, if anything.
Is this Vivendi's fault?Not entirely. The game itself is very large, and to develop something very large takes a very large amount of time. The only way it could be developed in less time is if we were paid to work on the game full-time, as opposed to occasional part-time. Legally, the only way we could profit off Sierra-based IP is with a commercial agreement from the trademark owners, who happen to currently be Vivendi.
After all, it was 20 years till we saw a new Indiana Jones movie... but we saw it!
Enjoy Chapters one and two.... very soon!!! It's still about the same size as King's Quest 6.... so imagine :)Oh wow, ok then. I think I can deal with a game that "short" XB
......................I would love this as well. The thing is, will you need to take KQ out of the game if you did this? What about making a KQ10, and using AGS, and 2d graphics, and doing something like IA did? I don't recall IA getting into trouble with Sierra. What do you think Cez, Neil???
I would love for Chapter 3 to be released someday as well, especially because of how unique and different it is from the rest of the game. But I think it will really depend on the "momentum" (as Rosella put it :P) that will come from releasing Chapters 1 & 2.
You wrote that Parts 2 and 3 will probably never be released "non- commercially." So is it possible that we'll see them if we're willing to pay for them?Like I mentioned in the entry, the only legal way for us to release them commercially is with a commercial license from Vivendi. Our current license with them is non-commercial, meaning we're not permitted to sell the games.
Perhaps Vivendi will change their mind, or perhaps someone else will become very interested in purchasing TSL or even Sierra as a whole from them. If something like this were to happen, we might consider completing the other chapters. If we were paid to work on the game full-time, it wouldn't take ten years to develop.
If by "now" you mean as it stands today, then you're correct. The only chapters scheduled to be released are 1 and 2.
Basically what I'm asking is if none of the situations you or Cesar suggested (buyout of Sierra or TSL, 20 million falling from the sky, alteration with the Vivendi deal, etc) occur in the future, will chapters 4-9 not come out?Correct. The team has no intention of developing those chapters non-commercially. Chapter 3 is the only one that may, mainly because it could be developed differently and released in a far more reasonable timeframe.
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.I think it was, but, wouldn't you buy it? All I mean is, it's better to have it as a commercial game, then not have it at all.
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.Back when we assumed nine chapters would take a total of three years to make, we thought we could release it all for free. But after realizing that it would take at least a decade more (on top of the seven years already) to make the remaining chapters for free, it's obviously not feasible.
What I have been looking forward to, all of these years, is the plot of TSL. I wanted to see what you guys did with the characters I loved, related to, felt for, and accidentally killed.XD XD XD
Personally though, rather than number of downloads, I'd say the popularity of the game will be based on the game itself. If fans like it, they'll encourage others to get it. If critics like it, more will be likely to try it. And if the quality of the game itself speaks for itself, it won't be a hard sell for those who will market it.So it's our job to make sure that the game is as good as it can be when it is released! :D
What I have been looking forward to, all of these years, is the plot of TSL. I wanted to see what you guys did with the characters I loved, related to, felt for, and accidentally killed.XD XD XD
Well, ya know, it's true. :PActually, I have to admit - it wasn't always an accident! ::)
I know you have said you are going to do original games and you have probably answered this question before, but I can't seem to find it. Are your original games going to be anything like KQ or other adventure games?We haven't decided entirely on what our first original game will be yet. All we know for sure is that it won't be based off of any Sierra-related intellectual property.
Is Peter Spear still writing the novel?We haven't heard from him in a few years, so I'm not sure.
Secondly the blog says that Vivendi Universal currently owns Sierra.Even after the merge, Vivendi remains the majority shareholder with 52%. But you're right that the decision-makers the company employs today may be completely different from the ones there 4 years ago. On the other hand, there is no trace of any classic Sierra game on Activision's site.
Actually isn't it Blizzard Activision now? At least sierra.com redirects to Activision's website.
If worse came to worst, is there any chance you guys might would give up the resources(scripts, voice acting, ect.) to group making a less technically ambitious game? Like a classic style 2D version? I'd love to see where you guys go with the story.This question has actually been asked many times. I will try to find a link to yonkey's answer.
Besides the technical complications that I previously mentioned, it would change the look and feel of the game, and would be akin to what Sierra did with KQ7 after KQ6. And even though I enjoyed KQ7 itself, the drastic graphical change made it feel somewhat sub-par. It did had some pros though, namely better music and auto-recovery on death.While I understand what you are trying to say, I'd like to point out that your analogy is flawed.