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The Royal Archives => The Silver Age => Off-Topic => Topic started by: dew7 on March 05, 2004, 03:08:28 AM

Title: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on March 05, 2004, 03:08:28 AM
   My favorite Windows version is Windows 98 Second Edition because it runs old Dos games well.  You can run most of the modern games on it and it supports most of the hardware that is now available.  I like the power that exiting into Dos gives users.  The text prompt allows smart users to execute commands in a way that I feel is limited by the GUI (Graphical User Interface) of Windows.  My reasoning for this is as follows:
Windows 95(all versions), 3.1, 3.0, Dos: are now too old to be of much use to the common user.  They are unsupported by Microsoft.
Windows 98:  Is not supported in the latest games and much of the modern computer hardware requires 98SE as a minimum standard
Windows ME:  Many people hated this operating system and you could not exit into Dos easily.  Even today, more users are using 98SE than ME
Windows 2000:  For corporate users -- need I say more  :)
Windows XP:  Too many security risks --- not a safe option in my opinion until at least service pack 2 is released by Microsoft  Based on the NT (not there -- smile) code and not the 9x(Dos) code  Has too many programs installed by default bogging down all but the fastest computer systems.  System requirements are much higher than 98SE
   Unfortunately, 98SE is difficult to acquire nowadays and usually must be bought second hand at places like E-bay.  In my opinion, I want Microsoft to release Windows 98 Third Edition (ME does not count) that corrects any errors in 98SE and brings it into compliance with computer technologies such as the P4 hyperthreading and allows more Ram, Hard Disk space, and speed to be recognised by the operating system.  Wow, I have got this all out there in Internet land --- Make what you will of it and I welcome all users comments even ones that completely disagree with me   !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 05, 2004, 12:15:36 PM
Your fave is my fave. ;)

Too bad Microsoft stopped supporting 98se. :'( But the source code for Windows was accidentally released a while back and perhaps some programmers can use that to refurbish and make Win98se into Win98te (third edition). ;) After all, if Microsoft won't support it anymore, doesn't that mean we're allowed to "upgrade" it with our own programming now? ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: etgadsby on March 05, 2004, 01:33:36 PM
I always liked the Mac OS X version of Windows…  8) As dyed in the wool Mac user, I was always mighty ticked at Sierra’s sucky/non-existant support for Mac’s. No good technical reason for it… all based around the whole M$ market take-over thing…(runs for cover awaiting the impending platform argument)

 Seriously folks I keep Mac OS X 10.3, Win XP, Linux, and everybody’s fav Win 98 around… 98se on a 400 MHZ  PII Dell does seem best to keep most of the old Sierra styled stuff going!  Though stuff like Sarien and free SCI are really cool too!  
 :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 05, 2004, 04:19:17 PM
   I have used Windows 95 and it is good but too dated for modern uses.  You could have year 2000 date problems along with a plethora of security problems if you use the Internet because MS does not support it anymore.  For example, Direct X 9.0b which is needed in many new games requires Windows 98.  98SE is the minimum supported in many new games.  Just go to your local computer store and see.   :)Apples are great for graphics and better for music in my opinion.  However, they are not as mainstream and have not been accepted by the business community so unfortunately they are not widely used.  Thanks for all the replies and comments.  :>
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 05, 2004, 04:30:04 PM
You could have year 2000 date problems
What's the use? The year 2000 has passed long ago...

along with a plethora of security problems if you use the Internet because MS does not support it anymore.
Never had any security problems. I can spot a virus from a mile far, and I have an AV program to see which one it is. I also have a forewall, blocking all ports on my pc, (not the ones I'm using ofcourse) and I'm also pretected by a firewall on my Internet server (which, BTW, is running on Win98 SE, because that's the easiest ICS to use). So I have absolutely no idea what security problems you're referring to. ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 06, 2004, 06:34:46 AM
They're all just as bad as each other >:(
It seems that instead of trying to fix the problems with one version, MS just comes up with a new release - which has a new host of problems of itself :-\

That's why I don't want to call any of the Windows versions "The Best"... I'll settle for saying that Win98 best suits my needs  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on March 06, 2004, 03:01:53 PM
I agree with Storm that there is no good version of windows : )

I use xp (twice) and 98se. I prefer XP (yeahhh, I'm a minority ; ) ...cuz I haven't got any blue screens with that version (hahaha it's a lame reason cuz I know that xp has also terrible problems, but I just can't stand those screens... grrr ; )


....have to start updating my linux skills though : )

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 07, 2004, 06:18:57 PM
  Hi!  I just got back and read all the replies.  Thanks for your opinions.  We are in agreement on:
1. 98SE needed for some modern games
2. ME is inferior
3. Blue Screens of Death rarely happen if 98SE is configured properly and by an experienced user.  I have had only one in the last eight months since I updated by sound and video card on my computer with a clean system and it was due to an Internet Explorer error.
4. By the Way (BTW) which browser is your favorite?  I cannot comment on this since I have used only Netscape and IE.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 07, 2004, 06:24:29 PM
4. By the Way (BTW) which browser is your favorite?  I cannot comment on this since I have used only Netscape and IE.

Opera, totally. Fast, small, has tons of features and customizing options, and is as close to standards-compliant as a browser gets.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Say on March 07, 2004, 06:27:42 PM
agreed, no version of windows is the best they are just... less buggy than the other :P

I have ME, it sucks :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Say on March 07, 2004, 06:29:02 PM
Oh and about browser, the more I hate it... old habbits die hard I heard, so I would say IE  :-X

Im too used to it as to switch it over, and also the fact that I've had the oddest problem with it lol, I should sooo hate it... oh wait... I sort of do :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 07, 2004, 06:31:45 PM
I use xp (twice) and 98se. I prefer XP (yeahhh, I'm a minority ; ) ...cuz I haven't got any blue screens with that version (hahaha it's a lame reason cuz I know that xp has also terrible problems, but I just can't stand those screens... grrr ; )

I think the reason they eliminated the blue screen in Windows XP was purely psychological ;)
When XP is crashes, it either reboots or stops responding, but doesn't blue screens  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 07, 2004, 06:36:55 PM
   Thanks for the information, Storm.  Longhorn will eventually replace XP.  Anyone know any good links about the operating system.  Will it be any good?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 07, 2004, 06:38:25 PM
   What will be the required operating systems for King's Quest IX and if 98 or 98SE is the minimum you may break Copycat's heart because he is a diehard 95 osr2 fan?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 07, 2004, 11:26:17 PM
   I guess no one will be disappointed if it covers so many operating systems  !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on March 08, 2004, 01:07:56 AM
I think the reason they eliminated the blue screen in Windows XP was purely psychological ;)
When XP is crashes, it either reboots or stops responding, but doesn't blue screens  :P

I know.... and it works for me ; ) hahaha
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 08, 2004, 02:47:26 AM
i have Win98se and i havent had any problems with newer games ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: MangoMercury on March 08, 2004, 09:44:18 AM
http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/WinRG.htm (http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/WinRG.htm)

Windows RG does it for me every time :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: etgadsby on March 08, 2004, 10:17:23 AM
It does seem the most stable OS I’ve ever seen. Thanks you for opening my eyes!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 08, 2004, 12:28:53 PM
   I have never heard of Windows RG?   ???
Seems like a majority of users like 98SE and I wait for CopyCats reply to my inquiry of 95 osr2 and my invitation to meet him in the microsoft 98 general newsgroup so we can get some experts to mediate between us.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 08, 2004, 12:30:21 PM
   I was also wondering why this forum uses third party cookies to invade my privacy?  Fortunately, my settings block these cookies.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 08, 2004, 12:34:40 PM
What third party cookies?  ???

As far as I know, the only cookie this forum sets is: YaBBSECookie151, and as far as I know, it's there to remember how long a user stays logged in for.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 08, 2004, 01:01:57 PM
It's possible that someone's avatar is trying to set a cookie... I've seen weirder.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 08, 2004, 03:21:45 PM
When XP is crashes, it either reboots or stops responding, but doesn't blue screens  :P

Oh, and how could I forget - it also does the "report error to Microsoft so we'll know you're using a pirated copy" :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 08, 2004, 03:44:23 PM
   These third party cookies only happen when I am logged in.  Who is the jerk who is trying to spam with third party cookies.  In my opinion, people like you should be fried in oil and fed to the dogs.  Well not really, but stop doing it or you should have your computer system shut down and never be allowed near a computer again.   >:(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 08, 2004, 04:11:36 PM
Spamming and privacy invasion with third party cookies? I don't think that ever happened to me... Or has it?  :o :o  :o how could you tell?  ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 08, 2004, 06:17:44 PM
  These third party cookies only happen when I am logged in.  Who is the jerk who is trying to spam with third party cookies.  In my opinion, people like you should be fried in oil and fed to the dogs.  Well not really, but stop doing it or you should have your computer system shut down and never be allowed near a computer again.   >:(

I just cleared my cookies and logged into this forum.  The only cookie created is username@www.kq9.txt and upon opening the file, the cookie contents should contain "YaBBSECookie151".  This cookie is created when you login because it is the only way for your web browser to remember that you have in fact logged in.  Otherwise, the forum would be prompting you for your forum login on every page you load.  The only information stored in this cookie is whether or not to always remember your password, or how long you wish to be logged in for.

Please be more specific by "third party cookies".  I suggest getting the program Ad-Aware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/) and cleaning your system of all spyware and adware and then checking these forums again.  The only banners on this site are the ones we created and obviously they contain no spyware or cookie-tracking.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 09, 2004, 01:47:55 PM
   I have Ad-aware, Spybot- Search and Destroy, PestPatrol, Zone-Alarm, AntiVir for antivirus, etc.  The third party cookies are not happening today, so far, but I will keep my eyes open for them, and whoever is doing this I thought I would like you to know that my computer is watching you, so you had better watch out.  I also have some connections with Microsoft and the United States Government so beware.  I checked the specifications on one cookie and it was yahoo related.  Thank you, Yonkey for taking this matter seriously and I would install more safeguards to better protect your website.    ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 09, 2004, 04:06:43 PM
Yeesh. Why get so bent out of shape over one cookie, which I still say is from somebody's weird avatar or something? Just do what I do... use a HOSTS file for ads and most cookie blocking, set up your browser to let through only good cookies for the rest of the cookie blocking, and chill out.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 09, 2004, 06:19:22 PM
     This problem with protecting your privacy is like a digital war.  Identity theft is a big problem in modern society.  It is important to shred documents with your birth date, social security number and other confidential information.  In recent years, adware, malware and spyware have caused many users machines to become bogged down, leak confidential information, and cause DDOS attacks on web sites that will overload them and cause them to shut down.  This has happened with the Spybot --- Search and Destroy website as well as others.  Another area to be aware of is to never open e-mails that you do not trust --- just delete them.  By the way, I do have blockers for cookies that I do not trust and third party cookies but this is besides the point.  People must remain aware of these threats so as to be able to neutralize their dangerous effects on their machines as well as potentially causing problems with users worldwide by causing digital denial of service errors.  Ignore these risks at your own peril.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 09, 2004, 08:17:57 PM
I already know about... and do... all that stuff. It just seems pretty silly to me to get so worked up over this particular matter, especially when it's not the KQ9 team doing it.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Say on March 09, 2004, 08:31:36 PM
so... erm.... It's nice I get here read all that and I feel out of the loop.... I read again and I think Im not quite getting it...

its like...

OMGWATCHOUT we are gonna get into your pc, steal your candy and kick your pet :P.. this is a joke btw (a bad one but oh well.. its me :P) lol


Serious though we do not have spyware or related in kq9 website, so dont worry about it, kq9 is safe :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 09, 2004, 08:38:01 PM
   I am not concerned about the kq9 team.  It is the person or people who are using third party cookies and other means to try and harvest information from people.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 10, 2004, 11:35:50 AM
   Here is the latest list of third party cookies blocked:

1.  home.imprimus.com.au/cat100/images/pimple01
         _small.jpg

2.  members.lycos.co.uk/ucsauk/pics/chibime.jpg

  It seems that third party cookies in the form of .jpg files are trying to infiltrate unprotected computers.  .jpg files refer to picture files  I wonder what someone is up to.  Please investigate, Yonkey and thanks for your help in securing this website and forum.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 10, 2004, 12:01:27 PM
OMG!  Invasion of privacy, alert the FBI!  ;) Hehe relax, they are jpegs.

Jeysie was right, they are the avatars of racx and Alex:
(http://home.iprimus.com.au/cat100/images/Pimple01_small.jpg)
and
(http://members.lycos.co.uk/acsauk/Pics/chibime.jpg)

The "third party cookies" are used because those sites probably have a hot-linking policy.  By that I mean you usually can't post direct links to files from those servers because the website forces you to visit the members page (to support their ads in order to keep the site free).  They're probably using the cookie to see how many users are viewing their jpegs.  

If you're really concerned, you can try blocking the cookie, but will their avatars still show up?  Anyway, if you feel this is an invasion of privacy, contact Iprimus and Lycos.  
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 10, 2004, 03:15:04 PM
When XP is crashes, it either reboots or stops responding, but doesn't blue screens  :P
Nonono, first it shows a blue screen (for a second or maybe two), and then it reboots. ;D

Oh, and how could I forget - it also does the "report error to Microsoft so we'll know you're using a pirated copy" :P
Not when it crashes due to an IRQ-problem. ;D

I don't think I'm accepting any cookies from imprimus and Lycos, because I systematically deny cookies from sites I do not recognize and don't visit. But, I don't remember receiving any requests for accepting a cookie here for a long time, so I'm thinking they've been around for a long time. BTW, Yonkey, don't worry, the KQ9-cookie is accepted. 8)

Browser choice: Netscape Navigator!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 10, 2004, 05:17:08 PM
   I am also blocking those third party cookies and yes the pictures do still show up.  I may take your advice, Yonkey and contact imprimus and Lycos.  Good to see you in this thread, Copycat.  Is your heart still set on 95osr2 while mine is set on 98SE as the best Windows operating system?  What about the games and hardware that require 98SE as a minimum requirement?  Alas, hyperthreading and newer technologies are now having the Windows XP "radiated" product as their minimum.  However, I will hold out as long as I can with 98SE because it is awesome!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 11, 2004, 03:04:12 AM
BTW its Iprimus ;D, and they are an internet provider ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 11, 2004, 03:29:42 PM
When XP is crashes, it either reboots or stops responding, but doesn't blue screens  :P
Nonono, first it shows a blue screen (for a second or maybe two), and then it reboots. ;D

Not my XP... but I might have blinked and missed it  ;)


"There is no such thing as a perfectly secure computer, unless it is switched off, melted down, encased in concrete, and guarded 24/7 by four armed guards.
Even then, I have my doubts"
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 11, 2004, 03:34:31 PM
You can disable the automatic reboot in XP btw, but I don't think you can return to Windows like in Win9x.  I used to get the odd blue screen when I had my old video card.  My screensaver was 3D so I guess the odd time it did some calculation error it would screw up. ;D

Once I upgraded to a newer card, I never got a blue screen again.  I have had things crash on me, but the nice thing about the NT-based kernel is that the whole computer doesn't screw up from one program crashing. :)  With Win9x, usually a program crash means a system reboot is necessary (especially if it was explorer.exe)  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 11, 2004, 03:46:43 PM
I'm not talking about the automatic shut-down... it's more of a sudden reboot  :-\ Of course, it might have something to do with those back door programs I found in the system files  :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 11, 2004, 05:55:12 PM
   Storm, what back-door programs or was that a joke?  Copycat thanks for your response and how is XP home holding up for you?  What are the specs. of your computers if you are willing to share?  I have 450 mhz PIII, 256 mb Sdram, Ati Radeon 9000 64 mb video card, 2 hard drives 7200 rpm's one is only 4 gigs while the slave drive is 30 gigs. and a Sound Blaster Audigy card.  What will kq9 require --- will I have to upgrade my system Yonkey since it is dated?  Thanks for all the comments.  It is greatly appreciated.   ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 11, 2004, 08:06:10 PM
The minimum requirements for KQ9 have not yet been established.  Your system sounds ok for me but we'll only know for certain when the testing starts.  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 11, 2004, 10:50:59 PM
I've heard Longhorn is going to be an assholic security hellhole. ;P It will be so bad that anything considered remotely "illegal" (even if they are things you created yourself or programs you made) they will be deleted automatically and without a message popping up. :o

Sorry, but I'm not about to put myself through that.  >:(
Title: operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on March 11, 2004, 10:57:46 PM
Macs do work well, I admit, but sadly I can't do much "under the hood" stuff while using a Mac. ;) I prefer to manipulate my machine as much as possible, and I can't "extend the La-Z-Boy" in Macs, so to speak. ;)
Title: operating systems
Post by: etgadsby on March 12, 2004, 05:53:28 AM
Do you mean software or hardware? Mac OS X is based on BSD, at any time you can jump into a terminal and hack to your hearts content. Just a FYI.  

I know I’m a little bit of a Mac zealot, but I’m use Windows too and I’m really not out to convert the forum or nothing (ET broods over his evil plan :o )
 
Title: operating systems
Post by: racx_00 on March 12, 2004, 06:05:00 AM
Linux is good ;B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 08:20:55 AM
  Storm, what back-door programs or was that a joke?

No joke... I think it was called bmail backdoor or something. I Found it the last time I ran an anti-virus check, some months ago, and had to delete the file it was on :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 12, 2004, 11:36:36 AM
Geez, Dew... I'm surprised you can even access the internet!

I have Zone Alarm for a firewall. Opera manages cookies (I only let in cookies I need for my forums and a couple other sign-in things.) I uninstalled IE and Outlook. Since Opera doesn't run Active X or automatically install browser thingys, I don't have to worry about spyware from that end, and I always check to see if any free programs I decide to try contain spyware before I install them. I manually keep a HOSTS file to block most ads. I have NOD32 as a virus scanner... I have real-time scanning, and I scan downloaded files before I open them. I never open any attached files I'm not expecting, anyway. I have Opera set to only display e-mail as plain text (because there just shouldn't be HTML in your e-mail anyway! :P )

And that's it. Doesn't take up much space or resources, and most of the time I just don't worry about it (except to keep stuff updated).

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on March 12, 2004, 12:01:40 PM
Do you mean software or hardware? Mac OS X is based on BSD, at any time you can jump into a terminal and hack to your hearts content. Just a FYI.  

It's based on the Blue Screen of Death? :o Interesting... ;)

I *was* considering getting a Mac sometime, but only to add to my computer collection mostly. ;) If you find a fully functioning AppleIIe with everything included (monitor, floppy disk drive) for under $50 though, let me know. I have a few games I got from a friend that I really want to play again, and Apples are scarce. ;)
Title: operating systems
Post by: etgadsby on March 12, 2004, 12:37:03 PM
He’s pulling my leg right? BSD = Berkley Software Distribution AKA UNIX http://www.bsd.org/

An Apple II, oh that brings back the memories. Sadly the only one I know about is a IIc that I’m sure my friend isn’t letting go it because it’s singed by Steve Wozniak.

My original copies of KQ 1 – 4 along with Space Quest are on those big IIe floppies. I remember how you had to sit and watch as the screen slowly redrawn and colored in for each room. Oh those where the days!



 

Title: operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on March 12, 2004, 12:47:32 PM
Lol, yeah, I'm familiar with BSD I just didn't know what it stood for. ;) It's pretty cool that your friend got an Apple IIc signed by the Woz, though! :)

The AppleII games I really liked were on the old AppleII computers at my middle school from many years ago. I managed to get PC versions of a couple of the games, but most of them are AppleII only. And the middle school got rid of the Apples a long time ago, I would have been glad to have bought one from them had I known they were getting rid of them. ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 12, 2004, 03:35:31 PM
Copycat thanks for your response and how is XP home holding up for you?  What are the specs. of your computers if you are willing to share?
Specs of the old pc: 233 Mhz Pentium II, 64 mb SDRam, Creative Banshee video card, one 4 GB hard drive (5400 rpm), Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold sound card.
Specs of the new pc: AMD Athlon64 3200 XP, Corsair (selected) 512 Mb DDR400, Sapphire Radeon 9800XT 256Mb, 2HD's of 111 GB (it says 120 in the specs but it's only 111 actually) 7200 rmp, 5.1 audio is on the MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R MB.
Quite a large difference don't you think?

Firewall is Zonealarm on the old pc, on the new it's another because in the new ZoneAlarm I can't find the option to trust an IP-address completely (my home server/ICS pc). McAfee AV is on the old, AVG is on the new. The realtime scanner is always active so if any mailicious content is accessed on my (old) pc it's detected and prohibited by the AV. Anyway, I don't get much of that. On the few occasions I get a virus (through e-mail), I can spot it from far away. I only try to copy it to my desktop to see if the AV stops it and what virus it is. Nothing is run automatically, or is installed automatically (I turn those options of intently). Ads don't really bother me, so I don't block them, I just don't click on them.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 04:01:59 PM
Geez, I don't have ANY of those things. Not even an anti-virus (the trial version expired :-[)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 12, 2004, 04:18:59 PM
   Jeysie, it sounds like your pc is protected.  One piece of advice, I delete e-mail that I know is junk and I am careful about even opening e-mail because this can let a company or a spammer know that your e-mail account is an active one.  I occasionally receive the fake Microsoft e-mail with an attachment and I delete it before even opening it because I know it is virus or/and spyware laden.  Microsoft only sends me e-mails when I have contacted them, they let me know and their e-mail format is different from the fake e-mails.  I know you probably already know all this.  Forgive my ignorance of this fact.
   Copycat, thanks for sharing your pc specs.  Your new PC is impressive and AVG is a good choice; just make sure it is set to scan all files.
   Storm, you need to protect your PC or you will have problems.  Let's start with what version of Windows do you have?  (Hopefully it is 98SE because that is the system that I know a lot about and can help you the most with)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 12, 2004, 04:24:29 PM
Dew: As long as you set your e-mail program to display only plain text, and not to ever load images or scripts, you're fine. As long as you don't run any suspicious attachments, you're fine there as well. Simply viewing a message without images or scripts loaded will do nothing. Of course, you never want to reply to a spam e-mail either, not even to "unsubscribe", but I'm quite sure you already knew that. :)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 04:34:40 PM
Storm, you need to protect your PC or you will have problems.  Let's start with what version of Windows do you have?  (Hopefully it is 98SE because that is the system that I know a lot about and can help you the most with)
I haven't had any problems yet... none that I know of, anyway.
As I mentioned before, I use Win98. But the computer I'm using right now, which had the backdoor on it, was (surprisingly) Windows XP ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 12, 2004, 04:47:16 PM
No e-mail is 'read' until I specifically double-click or right-click and select 'read'. Anyway, AFAIK, OE4 doesn't send any read-confirmations. Also, if I receive a spam e-mail, I read it (but don't mark it as read) because I'm curious, but I never reply.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 12, 2004, 05:25:44 PM
I use Norton AntiVirus and it scans all e-mail before downloading it in Outlook.  When it detects a virus, it tries to clean, or it deletes the file and replaces it with a Norton AntiVirus Deleted1.txt.  As for Hotmail, all unknown contacts and junk goes to Junk Mail.  Pretty much all e-mails with non-picture attachments, I know who's sending me them because they tell me in advance.  If they're an unknown sender, I usually don't even look at the message body. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 05:30:39 PM
I hardly get junk mail on hotmail since I started blocking the senders... But I did get one spoofed e-mail pretending to be from one of my lecturers :o I could tell it was fake right away - no lecturer of mine would ever send me an e-mail titled "Honey" :P
It's still kinda spooky :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 12, 2004, 05:34:08 PM
   Storm, make sure your Windows XP is updated and start by downloading adaware at  
   www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware
This should get rid of some of the spyware and adware.  Let me know how this goes.
    www.eeye.com/Research/Upcoming/index.html
This link shows some of the security risks attached to XP and the NT code in general --- so much for so called Microsoft security in XP :>
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 05:53:28 PM
Yeah, now I get more junk-mail on my regular address than I do on Hotmail... though I KNOW I never gave that address to anyone  :-\

  Storm, make sure your Windows XP is updated and start by downloading adaware at  
   www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware
This should get rid of some of the spyware and adware.  Let me know how this goes.
    www.eeye.com/Research/Upcoming/index.html
This link shows some of the security risks attached to XP and the NT code in general --- so much for so called Microsoft security in XP :>

Thanks!! I'll give it a try...  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 12, 2004, 06:51:14 PM
I hardly get junk mail on hotmail since I started blocking the senders... But I did get one spoofed e-mail pretending to be from one of my lecturers :o I could tell it was fake right away - no lecturer of mine would ever send me an e-mail titled "Honey" :P
It's still kinda spooky :o

LOL! XD
"Honey, you really gotta pay attention to my lectures, I know you love me." ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 12, 2004, 06:56:41 PM
"Honey, you really gotta pay attention to my lectures, I know you love me." ;)

Now that's spooky...  :o
Especially if you've seen the lecturer :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 12, 2004, 07:21:24 PM
Why, what does he look like? ;) Unless it was a she. ;)



The thing I hate is when people think they are forwarding along emails that are "helpful" to society when they are really just pointless spam. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 12, 2004, 10:30:00 PM
My favourite's the one about Microsoft sending each person $200 or something "because they have the money to do it".  A friend of mine has sent me that forward about 4 times in the past 4 years, LOL!  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 13, 2004, 12:41:06 AM
   Storm, also look up CWShredder and Spybot -- Search and Destroy on google.  These free utilities should help you clear up a lot of junk.  AVG, Avast or AntiVir are all free anti-virus programs that you could use and ZoneAlarm is a free firewall if you need that.  Finally, you may want to download a HOSTS program to help block many advertisements.  Let me know how it goes.  If you have any trouble, feel free to post back and let me know.  I want to make sure your computer system is more secure.   ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 13, 2004, 05:10:27 AM
dew7 ur really helpful, glad ur here ;B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 13, 2004, 06:21:32 AM
The thing I hate is when people think they are forwarding along emails that are "helpful" to society when they are really just pointless spam. ;P

Any time I get one of those types of things, I just reply to them with the relevant "Urban Legends Reference Pages" entry. ;D

http://www.snopes2.com/

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 13, 2004, 11:52:49 AM
I think I've glanced at the site before, never checked it out in detail. ;) Never knew that Mr. Ed was really a talking zebra. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 13, 2004, 12:37:29 PM
Almost all people who know my (main) e-mail address, also know about those urban legends, so I don't get those a lot anymore either. The last one I got was at work, from a colleague (in another department) sending it to all employees' addresses.
Up until a time ago, I got spoofed messages about the stock market, there wasn't a virus attached though, it was just spam. That seems to have stopped though. XB
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 13, 2004, 06:03:22 PM
  Storm, also look up CWShredder and Spybot -- Search and Destroy on google.  These free utilities should help you clear up a lot of junk.  AVG, Avast or Anti are all free anti-virus programs that you could use and ZoneAlarm is a free firewall if you need that.  Finally, you may want to download a HOSTS program to help block many advertisements.  Let me know how it goes.  If you have any trouble, feel free to post back and let me know.  I want to make sure your computer system is more secure.   ;D

Thanks!!
I installed and used Adaware... everything is still working fine ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 13, 2004, 06:13:14 PM
I just read about a tip against e-mail worms that send themselves to your entire address book - adding an address book entry named 000 with a non-existing e-mail address. It's supposed to let you know if there's a worm at work since the worm tries to send an e-mail to a non-existing address, which causes an error message to be sent to your mailbox.
It was also said to stop the worm entirely, since the non-existing address would be the first in your address list, the worm would try sending an e-mail to that address and would stop when it fails to do so. I don't know about the first part, but this part doesn't sound very true to me :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 13, 2004, 07:06:37 PM
Well, having an invalid e-mail address in your address book would cause sends to that address to bounce back.  So it's a nice indicator of whether you ran a virus or not...

...but it wouldn't stop the worm from sending to the other addresses because viruses don't disable themselves when e-mails bounce back.  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 13, 2004, 11:25:59 PM
   I am glad I can help people solve their computer problems.  Storm, were you able to stop that backdoor problem on your computer.  Windows must be updated, current virus scanner and spyware protection at the bare minimum and firewall if you have broadband.  I made a mistake and called a anti-virus program anti and I meant Antivir.  Sorry for the mistake.  Let me know any Windows problems that you have in this post and I will try to answer your questions.    !!!

   Anyone think that Microsoft will ever release another Windows that has Dos in it and is based on the 9x code like 98SE?  A user in the windows 98 general newsgroup mentioned since when is Microsoft interested in the consumer's opinions and I think he may have somewhat of a valid point.  What do you think?    :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 14, 2004, 03:46:49 AM
I doubt they will make another one based on 9x
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on March 14, 2004, 01:24:07 PM
who are we? ...you ....you don't have mpd too do you?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 14, 2004, 02:06:09 PM
who are we? ...you ....you don't have mpd too do you?
No, I am now speaking in King's (and Queen's in your part of the world) speech. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 14, 2004, 02:32:17 PM
What do you think about the extension of 98, 98SE, and ME to June 2006?  Was it to appease small countries or because everybody was bothering Microsoft that they wanted more support even if it was only minimal and mainly for security issues on 98, 98SE, and ME or was support extended for some other reason?
I think it may have been because M$ does not consider XP a good enough OS to make 98SE-users think about upgrading and it might be better to wait for Longhorn.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on March 14, 2004, 03:29:57 PM
No, I am now speaking in King's (and Queen's in your part of the world) speech. 8)

phew you got me worried there ; ) ...but this was indeed my second guess... but since you aren't female, you coudn't use queen speech, never thought of kings though ; )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 14, 2004, 03:39:15 PM
Oh, so CC is royalty, now? Oh dear.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on March 14, 2004, 03:52:52 PM
or pretends to be..... he does work in a mad house, so this could be the next step ; )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 14, 2004, 04:34:37 PM
He's the Wizard-King of the Asylum  ;-D

I still do not understand that other Windows link that was posted or was that suppossed to be a joke?

Yes, it was a joke... but a very realistic one ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 14, 2004, 05:08:29 PM
Why is it that the will of the customer doesn't matter anymore? :( Many of my favorite companies are no longer the way they used to be, and now the idea that "the customer is always right" rarely holds true anymore. :( And if it does, it only holds true for the customer that buys the most. :(

What happpened to friendliness towards consumers?? :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 14, 2004, 11:04:47 PM
   Since business has been slower and there have been so many layoffs and jobs going overseas, all that seems to matter is some profit.  This is unfortunate but it appears to be here to stay.   :(
I am preety sure that 98SE will not get another life extension after June 2006 and it would be nice if it could go into the public domain.  An argument against this I read was people could use the 9x code to make better viruses and spyware to more easily infiltrate NT.  What do you think?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 15, 2004, 02:55:48 AM
I think they are stupid not sticking to the 9x code cos it was really good ;D, and at the moment the best OS is Win98se ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 16, 2004, 02:34:26 PM
Oh, so CC is royalty, now? Oh dear.
A little remnant from the time when I was still a Royal Heir.

An argument against this I read was people could use the 9x code to make better viruses and spyware to more easily infiltrate NT.  What do you think?
I don't see what 9x has to do with NT. Those have been two entirely seperate types of OS's, until Win XP came along. Since Linux is open source, how come (besides, the fact it's not as spread-out as Win) there are so little virusus and sypware for that OS? Anyway, anyone who gets a virus or spyware, it's mostly his/her won fault, not the OS's. And besides that, of Win98 were to be open-sourced, security holes in that OS would be fixed very fast.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 23, 2004, 01:49:08 AM
   What, has everyone lost interest in this thread since I was away for a week on business?     :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 23, 2004, 01:50:52 AM
Every1 got confused by what u were saying and left :suffer:

only joking ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 23, 2004, 05:11:07 AM
M$ is motivated by money, pure and simple. The only way they'd go back to the 98 codebase is either if they thought it would be more profitable to do so, or conversely, less profitable *not* to do so.

I think the only ways to do that would either show that the Win98 codebase will bring in more revenue (of course, since they can right now parlay the non-backwards-compatibility of WinXP into increased software sales and forced upgrades for them, good luck on that) or to create enough negative public opinion and people willing to switch away from Windows to make them pause (good luck on that too... most people aren't saavy enough to learn a new OS, not to mention how to handle all the compatibility problems in terms of drivers, programs, files, etc, so even if they hate Windows, most of them are stuck with it.).

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 23, 2004, 06:00:58 AM
does Windows XP have DOS ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 23, 2004, 08:52:40 AM
Nope, not true DOS. It has a fake DOS with less features.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 23, 2004, 11:11:19 AM
What we need is to get an angry mob of about 500,000 people or more and hang out in front of Bill Gates' house, holding signs that say "F*CK YOU, BILL!". That oughta get his attention perhaps. ;) I actually had a dream where it happened. ;D

Though we may have to adjust the signs if there are any people named Bill in the mob. ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 23, 2004, 02:07:09 PM
*imagines a largish meteorite landing on Gates' house* ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 23, 2004, 04:38:28 PM
It isn't easy in Windowe either to use advanced functions, IMO. And besides, normal users don't normally use advanced functions either.

Which is why I said basic and "advanced basic" or "a little beyond basic" or "intermediate" or whatever you want to call it. ;)

I think it's maybe a matter of... first you hook the IT people and power users with something that makes it easy for them to customize and maintain things. They in turn will be more likely to recommend it to their bosses/family members/etc. to install... the catch being that non-power users aren't going to care how easy it is for the IT people to use... they want to know how easy it is for *them* to use.

I think you really gotta get both sides. If an OS is easy to use, but sucks in the securing/maintaining/customizing aspect, the IT people and power users probably aren't going to touch it unless they have to, and are going to try to avoid having to use it/having people under their tech care use it. On the flip side, if an OS is robust and flexible, but takes saavy to use, the average user is going to get frustrated and demand to use something easier.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 23, 2004, 05:37:58 PM
   So who is going to build the new operating system or were you planning on helping to build it, Jeysie?   ;D
Seriously, how do we get Microsoft to take consumers seriously or is it completely hopeless since they look to business interests and their pride and joy --- Windows XP is suffering continual security problems?  

   It would be great to have a spell checker with this forum.
   News Flash:
1.  Longhorn release has been postponed recently according to windows 98 general newsgroup due to half the team that was working on Longhorn being shifted to help with Windows XP security problems.  Now wouldn't you think that even a giant corporation like Microsoft would get the hint and decide to make a new 9x coded Windows that would be 98SE with all the updates and take the few good features from ME and XP to make a new steller operating system.  They could even call this computer system Longhorn and make a subtle reference to the fact that it uses the 9x code.   !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 23, 2004, 08:34:06 PM
And hopefully remove all the stupid "secure" features of Longhorn that comprise your privacy. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 24, 2004, 01:47:28 AM
Nope, not true DOS. It has a fake DOS with less features.
I believe that every Windows should have a proper DOS!

Also what is the next Windows going to be called ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on March 24, 2004, 01:59:04 AM
Supposedly Longhorn, and from what I've heard about its features, it already sucks.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 24, 2004, 02:03:15 AM
Microsoft should really look into bringing back the 9x code :-\. They should also look into bringing back the official and original DOS ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 24, 2004, 04:06:03 AM
So who is going to build the new operating system or were you planning on helping to build it, Jeysie? ;D

Heh. I'm afraid not... I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag (at least, not yet, anyway), and my thoughts are just educated guesses based on my observations of the techies and non-techies I've encountered. One would have to do some serious user surveying and stuff to get a real overview of the matter.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 25, 2004, 12:51:12 AM
   I have been trying to get Microsoft to bring back the 9x code that contains true Dos, but Microsoft is stubborn and set their hearts, minds and money on NT.  I have heard that XP only contains the command prompt and does not even have a fake Dos.  Now if only users would overwhelm Microsoft with requests for the 9x code to be brought back then we might have something.  It would probably take thousands or even millions of letters to Microsoft for them to get off the NT horse and consider going back to the tried and true old 9x horse.  In addition, it might also help by having as many users as possible switch to 98SE.  Unfortunately, 98SE will not support hyper-threading for new computers and although it is a great operating system now, I am starting to fear that its days are numbered unless we get a miracle.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Say on March 25, 2004, 12:56:09 AM
dew! you're back, wtf you've been in Awayland too much :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 25, 2004, 01:54:21 AM
   Yes, I was away on business and now I am back.  :)
Also, I will be limiting my participation to only a few threads because work keeps piling up.  Be seeing you, Say.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 25, 2004, 03:19:29 PM
Now if only users would overwhelm Microsoft with requests for the 9x code to be brought back then we might have something.  It would probably take thousands or even millions of letters to Microsoft for them to get off the NT horse and consider going back to the tried and true old 9x horse. In addition, it might also help by having as many users as possible switch to 98SE.
In all honesty, I think it's unrealistic to try and and find millions of people who care about whether or not Windows XP is security-flawed, and don't care whether or not the Windows is called XP or 98, so won't bother spending time ane effort on a petition.
Also, in economic terms, it'd be downright stupid to throw away all the effort they put into Longhorn and start again from Win98SE.
AFAIK, (a legal) Win98SE isn't available anymore anywhere, so those who have WinXP OEM-installed on their pc when they bought it, don't necessarily have a Win98SE-cd, so how do you suppose they could switch back to 98SE?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 26, 2004, 03:19:02 PM
One legal way would be to buy 98SE on the Internet from places such as E-bay.  Second, you may acquire it from a friend who no longer uses it.
a) AFAIK, M$ is not monitoring online auctions, so they wouldn't know if someone bought 98SE that way.
b) If I were to acquire it from a friend who no longer uses it, that transaction would be even less likely to make it through to M$ HQ.
Both of them are good suggestions to acquire 98se legally, but they won't make M$ realize anything.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 26, 2004, 10:33:22 PM
Why dont/do u want M$ to realise that ur getting 98se
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 27, 2004, 11:00:33 AM
   I am replying to myself to keep this issue alive and so it does not get buried.  How come the newest reply does not get put at the top of the page?  I think this is unfair.   >:(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on March 27, 2004, 11:33:45 AM
I'm not sure what you mean. When a post is replied to, it goes to the top of the first page of the forum topic listing, just underneath any sticky topics. (I think we have four sticky topics in Off-Topic now.) Then when people reply to other posts, those posts go to the top themselves, pushing down all the other ones.

Sticky topics always stay at the very top, also ordered according to which has had the most recent reply.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 28, 2004, 01:19:34 PM
Have you ever seen a petition that actually worked? 'cause I haven't.
I seem to recall something SQ or PQ-related. :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 28, 2004, 04:46:12 PM
I don't... but I'd love to hear about a documented case of a successful petition, especially one to Microsoft or Sierra  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 28, 2004, 07:45:15 PM
   I do not know about a successful petition but there may be a first one.   !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 28, 2004, 08:45:28 PM
I wish there was a way to bring back the 9x code :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 29, 2004, 01:05:32 AM
   I will let you know if I get any response to my letters to Microsoft.  Remember, if you choose to use 98SE as the operating system for your new PC, that is great but there are limitations.  Ram over one gigabyte can be unstable but some people have managed to get their ram to one and half gigabytes without problems on 98SE.  You will have to adjust memory settings when you go above 512 mb's.  Hard Drive space is limited to 137 gigabytes or below with the latest patch.  Hyper-threading is not supported.  There may be a few other limitations but these ones are on the top of my head.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 29, 2004, 02:57:32 AM
You could just install 2 Operating Systems and then use a program to stop them from conflicting ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on March 29, 2004, 11:24:17 AM
   You could have a dual boot system and use a third party program to prevent them from seeing each other.  I may consider this in the future.  It is becoming popular with users who want 98SE and XP Pro.  Who knows, it may be the wave of the future?  However, the inherent limitations of 98SE are still there and they cannot be overcome with the use of a third party program or a dual boot system.  If someone knows differently I welcome their opinions but this is the knowledge that I have gleaned with my finite experience.  Have a great day --- time to eat, prepare for the day and swim.  I will probably check in late tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 29, 2004, 08:10:07 PM
I'm not sure if you know this already, but if you install WinXP as a new installation onto a different drive/partition from your Win98SE, they won't conflict so it won't matter if they "see" each other.  In fact, if the file system is NTFS, Win98SE won't even be able to read the WinXP partition.

Here's my setup:  two hard disks.  On my primary HD, I first have a Win98SE FAT32 partition, then the rest is an WinXP NTFS partition.  On my second HD, it's another WinXP, NTFS.  So, I have a Win98SE and two WinXP's installed, but the one on the primary HD has less free space (and the HD is slower) so I just use the second one.

Anyway, I didn't want to get into all that technical jargon.  All I'm saying is that XP has a built-in dual-boot capability with your existing O/S and that as long as they're on separate partitions (separate drive letters) it doesn't matter which Windows sees what.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 30, 2004, 02:00:41 PM
All I'm saying is that XP has a built-in dual-boot capability with your existing O/S
Only a dual-boot capability, and not a multi-boot?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 30, 2004, 03:05:19 PM
Considering the average amount of RAM people had around the time Win98SE came out (I'd say it was 64MB or less), it's no wonder the O/S can't support really high quantities 1GB.  The O/S was probably based on what the average motherboard could support at that time as well.  Since 256MB chips didn't exist yet, they probably considered 4*64MB (256MB) chips to be the max most people would have, so to be safe, they designed for double that amount.  Anyway, this is all speculations, I personally don't know why Microsoft limited their ram capacity.  Maybe they thought the 4GB limit of virtual memory was good enough to handle memory issues.  ::)

Oh and Copycat's correct, it dual boots if you only have one operating system on your computer.  If you have Win2k, and Win9X, it will triple boot.  And if you have more than that, it will continue onwards.  

Let n be the number of operating systems installed on a user's computer, Win2K/XP creates a boot menu with n+1 choices. ;D  (Sorry, I have an exam in a few days and I'm gonna have to write lame crap like this on it)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on March 31, 2004, 05:36:05 AM
Poor Yonkey has to write about crap on an exam :-\ :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on March 31, 2004, 08:57:01 AM
Let n be the number of operating systems installed on a user's computer, Win2K/XP creates a boot menu with n+1 choices. ;D  (Sorry, I have an exam in a few days and I'm gonna have to write lame crap like this on it)
Don't worry, even in an accountancy exam that 'n' is likely to pop up. :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on March 31, 2004, 03:32:30 PM
Let n be the number of operating systems installed on a user's computer, Win2K/XP creates a boot menu with n+1 choices. ;D  (Sorry, I have an exam in a few days and I'm gonna have to write lame crap like this on it)

Good luck on your exam! :)
Hearing things like this makes me glad I dropped out of the university :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on March 31, 2004, 03:58:01 PM
Thanks!  As you can tell, I'm sick of studying for it already.  XD  Personally, I couldn't care less about solving "linear non-homogenous recurrence relations with constant coefficients"... :X Oh well :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on April 01, 2004, 12:02:42 AM
Let n be the number of operating systems installed on a user's computer, Win2K/XP creates a boot menu with n+1 choices. ;D  (Sorry, I have an exam in a few days and I'm gonna have to write lame crap like this on it)

yes! ...good luck to you Yonkey!! I'm glad I don't have any exams anymore ; )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 01, 2004, 03:33:06 AM
They are about money not customer pleasure so i doubt they will :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 01, 2004, 03:09:20 PM
If the only reason you want an exit to DOS mode is to run older games, then you may be better off keeping an old system or using one of the DOS emulators out there.
AFAIK, the DOS emulators don't emulate everything. And, old systems have a habit of breaking down sooner or later. :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 01, 2004, 03:19:04 PM
AFAIK, the DOS emulators don't emulate everything.
I guess they couldn't, otherwise they'd be illegal.  Wait, are emulators illegal?  :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 01, 2004, 03:32:17 PM
I guess they couldn't, otherwise they'd be illegal.  Wait, are emulators illegal?  :o
I don't think emulators themselves are illegal,but it could be the software you use it with. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: B'rrr on April 01, 2004, 05:20:15 PM
hahahaha.... go EU!! yeahh they stink! ; ) ...and it doesn't matter if it's legal or not ; )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: FataliOmega on April 02, 2004, 12:43:31 AM
...EU likes to humiliate the US and their corporations in whatever way they can... AKA their jealous...  :S
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 02, 2004, 12:45:05 AM
   I use my current system with DOS programs and games.  I exit to DOS to run these programs and games.  Some of these programs will not work in Windows XP Pro. because I have tried them and they do not work!  I need these programs and games for business and leisure.  My PC is a work and gaming PC.  I thought I would let you know that I still have my first computer that I ever owned which is an IBM PCjr and it still runs  !!!  I am all over old-school and backwards compatibility.  My friends, backwards compatibility is the future.  You need only to look at PS2 which can run PS1 games and it being the number 1 console. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 02, 2004, 05:23:12 AM
EU doesnt humiliate America they humiliate M$ ;) :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 02, 2004, 08:45:56 AM
...EU likes to humiliate the US and their corporations in whatever way they can... AKA their jealous...  :S
Why would the EU want to humiliate the US? Besides, the US is very capable of humiliating themselves right now, they don't need the EU for that.

EU doesnt humiliate America they humiliate M$ ;) :suffer:
And they'd humiliate any other company doing just the same. The EU is very concerned about monopolys (not the game), and they don't want any company to gain a too large market-share (like M$). Hence, if they see some company doing just that, they investigate and fine. Why they choose Media Player exactly, I wouldn't know. When Interbrew wants to take over a competitor, the EU also orders them to sell another part of their businesses so competition is maintained.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 02, 2004, 08:51:39 AM
I think i know why they complained about Media Player ;D, if you remember a little while back when i raised the point of the Paladium chip being placed in computers ;), well M$ setup Media Player so that when you install it you automaticaly agree to the Paldium rights :-\, thats what i heard anywayz ;B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 02, 2004, 01:37:50 PM
   So, does anyone suggest a good book on the Windows registry that I could buy or check out from the library?  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 02, 2004, 01:38:24 PM
I like the 9x architecture at its core and I use many third party programs to make Windows 98SE as secure as XP Professional if not more so.
This doesn't make sense. First you say that XP Professional, having an NT source is not as secure as 98SE, and now you say the opposite. Now you say that you have to use 3rd party programs to make your 98SE as secure as XP Professional. I'm afraid I don't get it anymore. ???

I have not yet heard our ICT department complain about any security flaw in our work work network, but then again, I'm not in the ICT-department.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 02, 2004, 06:17:37 PM
    At its core, 9x is more secure than NT.  The way it is now a fully updated XP Professional is more secure than a 98SE system unless you help protect the 98SE system with third party programs.  At least that is the way I understand it to be.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 03, 2004, 07:45:25 AM
   I have found 98SE to be the newest and best operating system to run older DOS games and programs.  ME which is the last current operating system to use the 9x code was crippled due to the elimination of the exit to DOS prompt.  I am puzzled about the X-Box?  In the Wall Street Journal, it says that the X-Box uses a variant of the 98SE operating system.  On the X-Box website it says it uses a customized version of the Windows 2000 operating system.  Who is telling the truth or is their a consipiracy?    ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 03, 2004, 01:11:31 PM
ME which is the last current operating system to use the 9x code was crippled due to the elimination of the exit to DOS prompt.
Let's face it, Me was rubbish, from what I've heard. BTW, Me was still based on the 9x-code. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 03, 2004, 06:01:41 PM
Heh, tell me about.  The first edition of Win95 was more stable than that crap. XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 04, 2004, 10:09:26 AM
Heh, tell me about.  The first edition of Win95 was more stable than that crap. XD
Since my motto was: if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and the adv-games of that time were still playable in Win95, I saw no reason to acquire Me. Therefor, I myself cannot compare the two from my own experience. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 05, 2004, 01:37:03 PM
Copycat, have you used 98SE?  You may acquire it from ebay.  I really enjoy it and it supports almost everything that XP Pro. does with the exception of NTFS, hyperthreading, hard drives over 137 gb, and ram over 1(1.5) gigabytes.
/me enters this thread only to turn off the notify that was inadversely (?gr, without me knowing it) activated yesterday.
No I haven't. Why should I? Games that won't play in XP, I can play in Windows 95 OSR2, and games that don't work anymore in Win 95, I can run in Windows XP. I see no reason to sacrifice precious HD-space on my old pc to run a dual boot between Win95 and Win98, and I see no reason to triple boot my new pc to include Win98 (XP, Linux and Win98). Besides, AFAIK Win98 doesn't support multi-booting, so I'd have to install a bootloader too, because if I were to install Win98 now, my MBR would be overwritten by Win98's.
/me leaves this thread and this forum.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 05, 2004, 03:26:26 PM
   What is MBR?  Aren't you worried about someone hacking into your system through the open ports?   :S
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 06, 2004, 09:12:32 AM
An MBR is the Master Boot Record.  Every o/s has their own and it's basically just tells where the boot files (and boot menu in this case) are located for a particular o/s.  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 06, 2004, 10:54:50 AM
   Thanks, Yonkey.  Do you have any idea why Copycat is being so stubborn on not fixing the security risk of open ports on his computer?  If he has so many open ports I think that he would risk his computer being hacked into and his data exposed to others or even have it end up on the Internent.  I know identity theft is a big issue nowadays and users just do not seem to take it very seriously.  
   Anyway, I think we have established that Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition is the best current operating system unless you need hyperthreading, NTFS, ram in excess of 1(1.5) gigabytes, and a larger hard disk drive than 137 gigabytes.  In this case, by all means go with XP Professional.  However, if you want backwards compatibility, support for the latest games and only a few less features with not as much eye candy or extra stuff than by all means go with 98SE.  It appears to me that 98SE will appeal more to advanced users because of DOS and the ability to run more games and older programs.  For new users, for ease of use in updating, for eye candy, for the latest operating system and for some other features you may go with Windows XP Professional.  Finally, on newer operating systems it may be difficult to downgrade to Windows 98SE.  I hope I have been able to help many users understand the differences between Windows 98SE and Windows XP Professional.  May you decision be guided by thought and careful analysis, rather than mere whim.  Long Live the Windows 9x code and the power of MS-DOS.  (Choose Wisely --- 98SE for 9x code --- Windows XP Professional/Home for NT code)     !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on April 07, 2004, 12:13:58 PM
You remind me a lot of my uncle, Dew, where he's much happier tweaking his computer than he is actually using it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just prefer to tweak my computer initially, update it once a month, (virus stuff once a week) and just use it the rest of the time. ;D I mean, yeah, you need to make your computer secure, but there's such a thing as going a bit overboard.

Personally, I would recommend to you to use Mozilla or Opera. I find it interesting that someone so worried about security still uses IE!

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 07, 2004, 01:52:59 PM
There is too much interest in this post and issue to let it die.  Copycat, when will you ever address your critical security issues due to the open ports.  You are just waiting for hackers to break into your system.  Let this be my final word of warning to you.  >:(
I'd advise y (?sp) ou to read my posts a bit more clearly, dew7. I never said there were open ports on my pc. I dare you to quote one sentence of me where I said that.
What I did say was that when using ZoneAlarm-firewall I had 5 closed (so not stealth) ports, whereas with Outpost-firewall I only had four closed (not stealth) ports. I'm going to determine whether or not the four closed ports I have when using Outpost are also appearing when using ZoneAlarm.
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: dew7 on April 08, 2004, 06:22:56 PM
   Thanks for the input, Storm.  Dew7 is disappointed with Copycat for not addressing his open ports issue and leaves this thread in protest.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 08, 2004, 06:44:42 PM
   My apologies Copycat.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 08, 2004, 07:20:22 PM
Can someone please explain to me, once and for all and in small words if you please, how the heck can hackers get into your computer through IE, an open port, or just from being connected to the net? because AFAIK you can't just waltz into someone's computer and use it like you're the boss - you need a control program with a listening port on the other computer for something like that, and you can't install a program like that without the user's premission :S

I've been pondering this question for a long time now, and would be extremely grateful if someone could answer that for me. If you choose to accept this mission, please pretend you're talking to a complete moron - I'll understand better 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 08, 2004, 09:54:13 PM
Ooh, let's see how much I remember since I have an exam on this at the end of April. XD  

One of the ways to hack someone is through an RPC (Remote Procedure Call).  Basically this is used in a client/server architecture (i.e. a multi-user O/S) and "allows a program to request a service from another program located in another computer in a network without having to understand network details".  Meaning, in theory, you could run any service on any computer that allows RPC calls.

This exploit's been patched a while back, but security holes like this exist all over Microsoft's O/S's. ;D
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: copycat on April 09, 2004, 03:11:32 PM
Thanks for the input, Storm.  Dew7 is disappointed with Copycat for not addressing his open ports issue and leaves this thread in protest.
Do as you wish. I don't have an open ports issue so I do not need to address it either. :-X
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 09, 2004, 06:35:44 PM
From what I hear especially in the NT coded Windows eg. XP, 2000, NT  see  

http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Upcoming/index.html

What do you think?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 09, 2004, 06:48:21 PM
They aren't particularly specific about what the exploits are (but I guess they don't want people to deliberately exploit the hole either).  

Considering all the Windows Update patches they've done for XP since its 2001 release, 6 isn't that bad.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 09, 2004, 07:21:58 PM
One of the ways to hack someone is through an RPC (Remote Procedure Call).  Basically this is used in a client/server architecture (i.e. a multi-user O/S) and "allows a program to request a service from another program located in another computer in a network without having to understand network details".  Meaning, in theory, you could run any service on any computer that allows RPC calls.

Still, the RPCs need to be installed on the computer that's being hacked... I'm talking about home computers here, not servers that have to give remote access, so why should they have those things installed in the firstplace?
Also, say I don't have any RPCs on my computer. Why would I need a firewall then? the scanning hackers wouldn't find anything to exploit anyways  ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 09, 2004, 07:35:01 PM
RPC is already installed on multi-user operating systems (WinNT+).  I'm not sure about Win98 so you might be safe from that particular one.

When I used to go on IRC (when I had Win95 and Win98), people would first do a port scan and if they found an open port they would send a large amount of packets to it, resulting in a Denial of Service attack.  One guy was so good he actually rebooted my computer  :o, but most of the times they would just blue screen it. :P

Anyway, that was the past and I didn't have a very secure firewall at the time.  These days, getting hacked isn't really as much as a concern as privacy issues.  If someone can figure out your IP, you could get those annoying Messenger pop-ups (again, I have no idea if Win98 has those or not) but most likely, if they could find your e-mail address you'd get spam like crazy.  These days I get so many e-mail viruses from people I don't know (of course, they're usually sent to a @kq9.org account and not my own, but still).  And you know how much damage a virus or trojan can do.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 09, 2004, 07:37:49 PM
But if you never go to places where there are a lot of unknown individuals, then most likely the only way you could get hacked was by going to a site that uses some sort of malicious cookie to capture your e-mail address.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 09, 2004, 07:56:11 PM
RPC is already installed on multi-user operating systems (WinNT+).  I'm not sure about Win98 so you might be safe from that particular one.

When I used to go on IRC (when I had Win95 and Win98), people would first do a port scan and if they found an open port they would send a large amount of packets to it, resulting in a Denial of Service attack.  One guy was so good he actually rebooted my computer  :o, but most of the times they would just blue screen it. :P

I don't use a multi-user operating system or IRC... but what I really meant to ask is, if a hacker can hack a computer that has absolutely NO programs or procedures that allow remote access. Even if a hacker knows your IP, it doesn't mean he can access your computer, right?
BTW - I thought DOS attacks don't target home users... what's the point of crashing the computer of someone you don't even know?  :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 09, 2004, 08:03:13 PM
But if you never go to places where there are a lot of unknown individuals, then most likely the only way you could get hacked was by going to a site that uses some sort of malicious cookie to capture your e-mail address.
How can a malicious cookie capture your e-mail? I thought the cookie is written & read by the site, so it can only contain information you've sent to the site in the firstplace :S

Besides, people don't really need to do any hacking to get my e-mail address. All they have to do is a google search ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 09, 2004, 08:19:09 PM
Whoa, lots of questions here, hehe let's see:

I don't use a multi-user operating system or IRC...
You use MSN but I'm still not 100% sure if you can actually capture one's IP from there.  With ICQ I know you can.

but what I really meant to ask is, if a hacker can hack a computer that has absolutely NO programs or procedures that allow remote access.
Every computer that can connect to the Internet has remote access.  More specifically, anything that uses a port to access data via TCP/IP protocol is using remote access.  All a hacker needs to do is find a way to intercept that port and they can access your data.  I say "data" here since a hacker is more likely to get to that than perform file I/O.

Even if a hacker knows your IP, it doesn't mean he can access your computer, right?
Unfortunately the IP is the only way to identify individuals on the Internet, so if the hacker has your IP, they could definitely try to access you.  Whether or not they can is based on how secure your computer is against incoming data requests, which is something a firewall controls.

BTW - I thought DOS attacks don't target home users... what's the point of crashing the computer of someone you don't even know?  :-\
On IRC they do :P  but you'll only hear about companies being targetted since that's what makes news.  Anyway, it's the same sort of attack, but instead of a user's IP, they attack a corporation's.

As for what's the point... I really have no idea.  It's the same thrill that virus creators get.  Why they'd want to destroy the data of millions of users is beyond me, but probably it gives 'em a sense of superiority & power: "I 0WN3D J00!"  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 09, 2004, 08:23:57 PM
How can a malicious cookie capture your e-mail? I thought the cookie is written & read by the site, so it can only contain information you've sent to the site in the firstplace :S
I don't know exactly how since I don't know that much about how cookies work.  Can cookies access other cookies?  If so, they'd just look for one where your e-mail address is stored.   Anyway I've seen Norton come up a few times and block cookies on some sites because they tried to do something malicious.  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 10, 2004, 01:37:01 AM
   With PestPatrol, tracking and spyware cookies are blocked.  As far as I know these are cookies that keep track of your web movements and report them back to the companies.  As far as the NT source code goes, I have been continually petioning Microsoft about the inherent underlying weakness with its foundation.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 10, 2004, 08:44:42 AM
Every computer that can connect to the Internet has remote access.  More specifically, anything that uses a port to access data via TCP/IP protocol is using remote access.  All a hacker needs to do is find a way to intercept that port and they can access your data.  I say "data" here since a hacker is more likely to get to that than perform file I/O.

Doesn't the client/server model says that the client is the one sending data requests, not answering them?
If I don't have any programs that handle incoming data requests (which I shouldn't have unless I'm using stuff like Kazaa that lets your computer act as a server), a hacker can pretty much send all the TCP/IP he wants, but he won't get any answer since there's nothing there to handle his requests ???

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 10, 2004, 11:22:56 AM
If someone can figure out your IP, you could get those annoying Messenger pop-ups (again, I have no idea if Win98 has those or not) but most likely, if they could find your e-mail address you'd get spam like crazy.  These days I get so many e-mail viruses from people I don't know (of course, they're usually sent to a @kq9.org account and not my own, but still).  And you know how much damage a virus or trojan can do.
Shoot the Messenger! (http://www.grc.com/stm/shootthemessenger.htm)
I don't get too many e-mail viruses since I'm extremely careful about my e-mail addresses. That's why KQ9.org has one of my spammotel-addresses, I don't trust you. :P Just a few days ago I got two at the same day, but the last one before that was several months ago. Not that I execute the attachments ofcourse. 8)

No program that has access to the Internet has been allowed server rights, not in ZA, not in Outpost.
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: dew7 on April 10, 2004, 12:50:33 PM
  Is your Windows fully updated?  My dad actually uses the Windows firewall and has found it works great for him.  All his ports are stealthed --- He uses Windows XP home -- Also, you may want to try Adaware by Lavasoft, Spybot --- Search and Destroy and CWShredder to eliminate spyware, malware or adware that may be on your system.  Sorry, again for saying that you had open ports when they were closed --- I will have to be more careful in the future
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 10, 2004, 01:00:20 PM
   It all boils down to what you as a user want --- do you want lots of free with no or little privacy and maybe even attempted idenity theft --- eg. using on-line sharing of music, some internet sites, some free e-mail, some free programs, etc.  I would suggest using an alternative e-mail address to give to corporations and others that you know will get spam, viruses, etc. and having one that you safeguard with your life and only give to a select group of friends and family.  For example, I use a hotmail address for most of my use and to give to corporations and businesses.  My other address --- I do not even feel comfortable telling you the company is only given to a select few -- never unsubscribe to services because they know its an active account --- with my hotmail address I just delete unless it is something I know that I am receiving --- shred documents, cds, disks, etc.  We all must stop the theft of our privacy and the individuals who use our name in vain to steal and hurt others --- over and out ------- the silly one  ;B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 10, 2004, 03:02:08 PM
Doesn't the client/server model says that the client is the one sending data requests, not answering them?
A client both sends and receives from a server.  For example, if port 80 is used for http (if you're not using a proxy).  You request data through this port by simply entering a URL and you receive data through the port when a web pages are downloaded to your browser.  

Another port is port 110 (pop3).  If someone is "packet sniffing" on your IP port 110, they could intercept your incoming e-mail.  Some servers require an SSL connection, and the data might be encrypted, but if not, a hacker could easily do this.

Spammers used to use ISP's SMTP port (25) because it didn't require any authorization in the past.  They could send an e-mail through any ISP mail server and could get away with it.  These days most servers require authentication for outgoing mail, in order to stop this.

I mention these 3 ports, since they're the ones left open on most computers (otherwise you couldn't surf or send/recieve e-mail).  I personally don't know how easy it is to hack someone through these, but I'm just saying it's completely possible.

Oh yeah copycat, I simply disabled the Messenger service in XP (since it has nothing to do with MSN Messenger) and the problem was solved.  But I did notice that ZoneAlarm blocked those Messenger pop-ups too, before I disabled the service.  <3
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 10, 2004, 03:33:29 PM
A client both sends and receives from a server.  For example, if port 80 is used for http (if you're not using a proxy)...

Another port is port 110 (pop3).

Spammers used to use ISP's SMTP port (25) because it didn't require any authorization in the past.

I mention these 3 ports, since they're the ones left open on most computers (otherwise you couldn't surf or send/recieve e-mail).  I personally don't know how easy it is to hack someone through these, but I'm just saying it's completely possible.
Strange, none of those ports is open when I check grc.com. Ofcourse, at the moment I am not handling e-mails on this computer, so those last two are not used at this time. No proxy, but NAT, and port 80 isn't open yet. None of those 3 ports are even closed.

Oh yeah copycat, I simply disabled the Messenger service in XP (since it has nothing to do with MSN Messenger) and the problem was solved.  But I did notice that ZoneAlarm blocked those Messenger pop-ups too, before I disabled the service.  <3
Never got any Messenger pop-ups, never noticed my firewall blocking Messenger pop-ups. But, better be safe than sorry and shoot it anyway. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 10, 2004, 08:58:58 PM
Yonkey -
Thanks for answering my questions so patiently  :D

A client both sends and receives from a server.  For example, if port 80 is used for http (if you're not using a proxy).  You request data through this port by simply entering a URL and you receive data through the port when a web pages are downloaded to your browser.  

Yes, but only the client is supposed to make requests - the server (or anyone else) isn't supposed to send requests to the client, and there should be no reason for the client to answer them.
So basically, if someone wants to take control of your computer remotely (not just spam you, or DOS you) they'd have to use a handling program that's installed on the computer, right?

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 10, 2004, 09:03:51 PM
Another port is port 110 (pop3).  If someone is "packet sniffing" on your IP port 110, they could intercept your incoming e-mail.  Some servers require an SSL connection, and the data might be encrypted, but if not, a hacker could easily do this.

Can you do anything against a packet sniffer? I mean, those things don't even need to be installed on your computer, so there's not much you can do to prevent them. And most sites don't use encryption :-\
A particularly scary thought is that every computer in my cable neighbourhood is a potential sniffer :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 10, 2004, 09:30:46 PM
Yes, but only the client is supposed to make requests - the server (or anyone else) isn't supposed to send requests to the client, and there should be no reason for the client to answer them.
So basically, if someone wants to take control of your computer remotely (not just spam you, or DOS you) they'd have to use a handling program that's installed on the computer, right?

I think you're correct about this.  But taking control of a computer is different than reading data (and is also much harder to do, btw ;P).

Can you do anything against a packet sniffer? I mean, those things don't even need to be installed on your computer, so there's not much you can do to prevent them. And most sites don't use encryption :-\
A particularly scary thought is that every computer in my cable neighbourhood is a potential sniffer :o
Hmm.. well TCP/IP is based on transferring packets of data from one place to another, it was never designed to be secure.  The only way to protect against it is to ensure data is encrypted (through SSL or something).  A packet sniffer is a tool that the hacker uses to get the packets sent across a port.  I heard that some wireless networks still don't use encryption (because there's no agreed upon standard for wireless communication yet), so you can imagine the kinds of problems we'll have in the future.   ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 11, 2004, 11:50:16 AM
I think you're correct about this.  But taking control of a computer is different than reading data (and is also much harder to do, btw ;P).

YAY!! I was right about SOMETHING :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 11, 2004, 02:50:05 PM
I heard that some wireless networks still don't use encryption (because there's no agreed upon standard for wireless communication yet),
Anyone ever heard of WEP (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/WEP.html)?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 11, 2004, 05:42:18 PM
Port 113 is the only port that is not stealthed on my system.  It is closed.  My system also accepts pings.  Does anyone know how to make these options more secure?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on April 11, 2004, 05:48:45 PM
I heard that some wireless networks still don't use encryption (because there's no agreed upon standard for wireless communication yet),
Anyone ever heard of WEP (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/WEP.html)?

Can't say that I have  :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 11, 2004, 05:50:32 PM
Quote
Short for Wired Equivalent Privacy, a security protocol for wireless local area networks (WLANs) defined in the 802.11b standard.
Well, IIRC, they're at the 802.11g standard now, or even higher, and there are other wireless protocols out there too (Bluetooth, GSM/GPS, Wi-Fi, RF, etc.).  :-\
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: etgadsby on April 11, 2004, 07:43:30 PM
You'll only need AppleTalk open if you have Mac's on your home/campus network you'd like to share resources with.
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Say on April 11, 2004, 08:11:44 PM
... Entrust key msh and  OMG inital refs...

OMG HE SAID OMG... :P lol, ok now I leave ;P
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Storm on April 11, 2004, 08:26:24 PM
OMG = Object Management Group ;)
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Say on April 11, 2004, 08:34:49 PM
hahahahahahaaaaaaaa... Im not going to even say a word about it :D
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Questing Character on April 11, 2004, 08:50:29 PM
And here I thought we were justing using the lord's name in vain.  No, we couldn't be *that* mundane on these boards. :P
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Storm on April 11, 2004, 08:55:07 PM
We're not speaking the name of the Lord in vain. We just like to spice up our posts with techie lingo. And as Say is the techiest of us all, she's been using that expression the most ;P

Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: dew7 on April 11, 2004, 10:05:40 PM
   Does anyone know how to fully stealth port 113 --- this is the only port on my system that is not fully stealthed --- just closed   --My system also receives pings -- can you stop this?  It would be nice to be fully invisible.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 11, 2004, 10:15:32 PM
   Yonkey, is it easy to stealth port 113?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 11, 2004, 10:21:38 PM
Depends on your firewall.  XD
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: dew7 on April 12, 2004, 06:21:27 PM
   It is a 98SE system with hardware firewall and software firewall, ZoneAlarm.  Port 113 is closed and not stealth.  Is this one of your closed and not stealthed ports too, Copycat.  Etgadsby or Yonkay -- one of you must have some idea on how to stealth this port.  Also, my system accepts pings --- I would like to close this as well.  Thanks in advance for all of your help!   ;)
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: Jeysie on April 13, 2004, 01:19:46 AM
Dew: IIRC, the thing with ZoneAlarm is that it closes and stealths that port on a "as-needed" basis. So if the program sees the port trying to be accessed by a program with allowed server rights, it will unstealth it for that program, but keep it stealthed for everything else.

...I think. I'm pretty sure I read the whole deal on GRC.com, you might want to try searching that site.

Edit: A-ha, sorta.

http://grc.com/faq-shieldsup.htm#IDENT

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 13, 2004, 01:28:43 PM
Well, IIRC, they're at the 802.11g standard now, or even higher, and there are other wireless protocols out there too (Bluetooth, GSM/GPS, Wi-Fi, RF, etc.).  :-\
Yes, I know they've gone forward since 802.11b, but IIRC the only difference in 802.11g is the higher data transfer speed, so WEP should still be included in that standard. AFAIK Bluetooth also uses a form of encryption, don't know anything about GSM/GPS, etc..) 8)
Title: Re:Tierra
Post by: dew7 on April 13, 2004, 10:10:20 PM
Jeysie, you are right.  Port 113 is stealthed as needed by ZoneAlarm.  Thanks and have a great night!   :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 14, 2004, 11:13:58 PM
Makes sense, Copycat.  Do you shutdown, frequently?  BTW, Windows 98, 98SE, ME page revised --- you are welcome to check
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 15, 2004, 02:15:16 PM
Do you shutdown, frequently?
On weekdays both of my pc's are shutdown-ed between 11.30 PM and 8.30 PM the next day. The server follows the same routine. On Saturday mine is up around 5-5.30 PM, the server follows shortly, and they both shut down no later than 2 AM, tops. On Sunday, my pc is already running about 2.30-3 PM, but the server is not until 5-5.30, and, if I have to go to work, my pc shuts down at 11.30 PM tops. If not, it's 2 AM tops.
Is that frequent enough for you?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 16, 2004, 01:45:28 AM
Sure -- What do you think about Windows Update site still having critical updates for 98, 98SE and ME?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 16, 2004, 03:47:20 PM
Sure -- What do you think about Windows Update site still having critical updates for 98, 98SE and ME?
I think it's only normal, since they dediced to support 98, 98SE and ME until 2006, they should act like it too. ;-D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 19, 2004, 10:36:47 AM
Good point!  Unfortunately, hotfixes for 98, 98SE and ME are now not regression tested and must be requested from Microsoft.  Only new critical security updates are addressed through Windows Update.   :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 19, 2004, 02:47:05 PM
I guess that no longer makes them hotfixes.  ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 20, 2004, 10:46:03 AM
(LOL)  Can we say coldfixes?   ;B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 20, 2004, 02:29:39 PM
I guess that no longer makes them hotfixes.  ;P
What's the difference between 'hotfixes' and 'critical security updates' ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 20, 2004, 02:39:17 PM
Hehe, I'm not sure why you're quoting me, but I was referring them as no longer being hotfixes since they're no longer tested and you have to specifically ask for them from Microsoft.  What a buzzkill. XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 20, 2004, 03:01:58 PM
Hehe, I'm not sure why you're quoting me, but I was referring them as no longer being hotfixes since they're no longer tested and you have to specifically ask for them from Microsoft.  What a buzzkill. XD
Well, if they (M$) put them into the microwave for a few minutes before they give them to you, they'll still be hot. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 21, 2004, 03:28:59 AM
Yonkey, why has Microsoft been so firm about giving up Windows 9x/DOS code and switching to NT code (XP, 2000)?  Any idea why they feel so strongly on this issue?   ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 21, 2004, 08:49:16 AM
Yup, I have a few theories but rather than hearing from me, let's hear what Microsoft has to say:

Top 10 Reasons to Move to Win2k (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/professional/evaluation/whyupgrade/default.asp)

Top 10 Reasons for Moving to WinXP Pro (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/whyupgrade/top10.asp)

Windows XP/Windows 98 Matchup (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsXP/pro/evaluation/whyupgrade/wxpvswin98.asp)

Enjoy!  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 21, 2004, 01:56:31 PM
First of all, the overview is lying, saying XP is more reliable than Windows98, maybe not in the Professional-version, but in het Home-version. The other points mentioned in the overview are also no better in Windows XP than in Windows98SE. They might not be exactly the same in Win98SE, but the same can be accomplished. 8)

EDIT; I must have missed proofreading this post, because I had two-spelling errors so obvious even I wouldn't have missed if I had (proofread).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 22, 2004, 02:00:38 AM
In 98SE, you can accomplish many of the things that you can accomplish in XP Professional.  Sure they may have encryption with the NTFS file system but I certainly do not need this added feature.  I looked over the weblinks that you provided Yonkey and I have no compelling reason to upgrade to XP Professional.  I think it has taken Microsoft by surprise that so many users still like Windows 98SE.  Heck, I even own a few shares of Microsoft and I think it is in Microsofts best interest to update 98SE with another 9x product even though this is unlikely to happen.  Yahoo -- views of this topic have exceeded 1000!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 22, 2004, 07:04:44 PM
So, my conclusion is 98SE is best for old DOS programs and works well with most new hardware and software.  It does have limitations:
1. 1-1.5 gigabytes of ram maximum
2. 137 gigabyte hard drive maximum (each hard drive)
3. no hyper-threading support
4. Support by Microsoft will end on 30 June 2006.

Windows XP Professional is my second choice.  It has NTFS --- new more secure file system.  It has a classic interface if you want an old school feel.  Negatives are as follows:
1. Command.com prompt - no true DOS
    this causes less support for old DOS programs
2. Security issues are still a problem (see below:
    http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Upcoming/index.html

3. Much higher system requirements
I suggest you run the upgrade advisor if you need XP Professional for certain programs or hardware.

Windows 95 osr2 is my third choice for reasons that Copycat has already mentioned.  Thanks for all the input.  This certainly has been an adventure.  Over and Out --- Dew7   ;-D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 25, 2004, 03:16:25 AM
Copycat and Yonkey, I really would appreciate your feedback.   :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 25, 2004, 09:13:44 AM
Copycat and Yonkey, I really would appreciate your feedback.   :D
You said 'Over and out' so I assumed the discussion was closed. ::)
If I had known it would be such a pain to install SuSe Linux on this computer, I most probably would have chosen XP Professional too. :-X
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 25, 2004, 02:15:48 PM
Thanks!  I didn't really give feedback though, that was Microsoft, lol.   XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 26, 2004, 01:57:43 AM
Copycat, I mispoke when I said over and out.  My sincerest apologies.  Copycat, Yonkey and Microsoft, thank you for all of your comments.  I think when I upgrade my computer it will be a dual boot system with two hidden partitions of 98SE and XP Professional or I could go with a Virtual Environment.  Any comments on which is better, Copycat, Yonkey, Microsoft or anyone else.   ;)  Thanks again for all the comments.  This has been a great topic and I have learned a lot.  I plan on keeping this post going a liitle bit longer so I can extend my knowledge even further.  LOL
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 27, 2004, 02:19:45 PM
I think when I upgrade my computer it will be a dual boot system with two hidden partitions of 98SE and XP Professional or I could go with a Virtual Environment.  Any comments on which is better, Copycat, Yonkey, Microsoft or anyone else.   ;)
I have no experience with a Virtual Environment, neither is their any knowledge of that in my head (when I have no use for it, I discard most knowledge), so I can't compare between the two. And since my Linux boot-loader isn't working properly, I can't make many assumptions about dual boot either. All I know is Win can't see the Linux partititon and Linux can't access the Win-one although Linux should be able to read NTFS.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 29, 2004, 03:11:06 PM
My new desktop cost 1,695 €, so in dollars that would be: x 1.1945 = 2,024.68 $. It included:
- new MB
- new fan
- new power supply
- XP Home
- new RAM
- new AMD64
- new hard disks
- new cd-writer
- new DVD-reader
- new video card
- new mouse 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 29, 2004, 03:14:54 PM
Considering my computer started to fall a part a few days ago, I'll list the stuff I have to buy soon:

- new MB
- new fan
- new CPU
- new memory (unless the thing supports SDRAM)
- new hard drive

- DVD-reader if I really wanted one


OR I could just get a laptop.  XD

Of course, I'd need a job before I can get any of this stuff, so this is more of a wish list for the time being.  ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 30, 2004, 08:11:50 AM
Yeah, I'm dual booting with 98SE and XP Pro.  ;P

My 98 partition is FAT32 and just 2GB or something, XP is 17GB NTFS and the BootMagic drive is FAT16 and 50mb ;D

The HD that died on me was 40GB XP Pro, NTFS. :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 30, 2004, 10:30:23 AM
     Did you use BootMagic to allow the dual boot or Partition Magic or another third party program?  I recently bought a USB drive that is removable with 256 mb's for my 98 Second Edition System.  It is so nice and I have it plugged in and operating fine in my USB 2.0 drivers that require a minimum of Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition to run.  I think the scanreg function is MS-DOS related and that is why it does not seem to be in XP.  Why do you think that Microsoft does not want to say that they made a mistake in not seeing consumer demand for 98SE and release a true 9x successor with all of 98SE functions as a Classics line for older computer systems?  In my opinion, ME does not count because it removed the easy exit to MS-DOS that exists in Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition.  This new operating system would have all of 98SE updates, add the functionality of ME, recognize new hardware and software and be supported until at least 30 June 2007.  It would cost money for Microsoft to make but it will reap them many millions more if it is well done and is successful.  Also, as an employee of Target for five + years I have noticed that 80's toys are big business again.  The same may hold true for older operating systems.  In addition, many people have started wanting dual-boot systems with 98SE and XP Professional.  Why should this be needed when XP Professional is supposed to give users everything?  I and others have shown here that it is not as great as it claims to be.  Hopefully, Microsoft will learn its lesson by the time Windows Longhorn is released.  
     I give Microsoft a great deal of credit for releasing for free a Windows Security CD.  You do not even have to pay for shipping.  In addition, I give them credit for extending the expiration date of 98 Second Edition to 30 June 2006.  Finally, I am pleased that the Windows Update site will recognize critical updates for 98, 98SE and ME until 30 June 2006 --- the date on this I am not sure about.  Thanks for all the information, Yonkey, Microsoft, Copycat and everyone else.  This is definately my favorite topic in the other topics area.  Have a great day!  Now, let us continue this enlightening discussion.   !!!   :D   ;D   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on April 30, 2004, 03:55:43 PM
MS-DOS doesn't use the registry and I don't think I've ever heard of that program before.  But thanks to Google:
Quote
Scanreg was first introduced by Microsoft in Microsoft Windows 98 and has become a very useful and helpful utility. Using Scanreg a user can backup his or her registry manually and or allow Windows to backup the registry daily (default).
 ;D
That's probably why my Win95 is unable to find it.
Dad and bro are dual booting Win98SE and XP (PRO, AFAIK), I'm dual booting XP Home and SuSe Linux.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on April 30, 2004, 07:45:04 PM
The link for the free Windows Security CD is below:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/cd/order.asp

This CD is only available for Windows XP, Windows Me, Windows 2000, Windows 98, and Windows 98 Second Edition (SE).  (courtesy of Microsoft)

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 01, 2004, 02:36:32 PM
Either the Belgian(Dutch) order-link (not the one posted) isn't working properly, or the link is IE-specific. Either way, it doesn't work now. :-X
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 01, 2004, 10:03:59 PM
It just worked for me but I use Internet Explorer and reside in the United States.  I hope it will work for you soon.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 02, 2004, 01:42:50 PM
It just worked for me but I use Internet Explorer and reside in the United States.  I hope it will work for you soon.
I still wonder if there's anything on that CD I can't download using XP Update. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 05, 2004, 09:06:21 PM
Maybe you can have a friend load one unto your machine if the security cd cannot be mailed to you.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 06, 2004, 01:53:29 PM
Maybe you can have a friend load one unto your machine if the security cd cannot be mailed to you.
For that to work, I should have a friend who has that security CD, and have enough time to download it onto my machine, not to mention the finer technicalities (about how to set up the connection and stuff). ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 07, 2004, 12:50:49 AM
Does Linux give you features that are unavailable in Windows?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 07, 2004, 03:31:24 PM
Does Linux give you features that are unavailable in Windows?
It has games I don't have in Windows XP, it's got an Office Suite I haven't got in XP, but more than that I cannot say without doing more testing. Testing has been halted temporarily, awaiting a solution to the bootmanager/-loader-problem.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on May 10, 2004, 08:46:43 PM
I have a personal gripe with Win98SE (which I happen to be using right now).  It can't handle having two Macromedia 2004 MX programs open at the same time.  It complains of being out of resources, when I've installed 384 MB of ram!?  >:(

I forgot about the memory leak issues Win98SE has and that's probably the one thing I miss most about 2k/XP.  The NT Kernel handles multitasking and virtual memory way better than in 9x.  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 12, 2004, 02:58:01 AM
Definately, agree with you there, Yonkey.  Memory management with the NT source code is much better than the 9x code.  The 9x code strives to maintain backwards-compatibility with true MS-DOS mode and the sacrifice with this is poor memory management.  Windows XP has a MS-DOS shell that is executed at a command.com prompt that allows some MSDOS programs to work but definately not all of them.  According to a MVP the Sasser worm targetted a service that was not available in the 9x code but it was available in the NT code.  I think that it is ironic how when you have too many features in a system then it can undercut the overall security of your pc.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on May 13, 2004, 10:53:30 PM
I guess it depends on what you want out of an operating system.  For me, #1 is stability which is why once I switched to XP, I never considered going back.  I even loved Windows 2000 for the year I had it.

For other people it's security, compatibility, sustainability, maintainability, and so on.  Personally, I'd say just use whatever works best for you.  I never run DOS-based programs, so the fact that it exists in Win98 doesn't make a difference to me.  Also, most software developed today is designed for Windows, Mac and UNIX (probably in that order) anyway.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 14, 2004, 06:15:48 PM
I am one of those users who will have to have a dual-boot system of 98SE and XP Pro. to allow for the best of both worlds.  I currently am saving my funds to allow for an upgrade of my computer and to allow an upgrade to 98SE and XP Professional edition.  I want it all.  LOL  I want to be able to play my old school MS-DOS games and also be able to run the most current hardware through XP.  I may upgrade to dual-boot after Microsoft has released SP2 for XP and wait to see if it fixes a majority of the security issues with the XP operating system.  Heck, I may even try to get a job at Microsoft someday.  Who Knows.  :>  !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 23, 2004, 01:41:24 PM
Have you heard about how the Sasser worm affected the NT source code in XP and 2000 while 98SE was not affected?
The Sasser Worm was the one that didn't come in through e-mail, was it not? Anyway, anything attempting to connect to the internet first has to pass through my firewall and I haven't seen anything suspicous trying to get out.
I wouldn't recommend XP Home to anyone, XP Professional is probably the better way to go. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on May 24, 2004, 08:27:44 AM
I wouldn't recommend XP Home to anyone, XP Professional is probably the better way to go. 8)

And the differernce between them is...?? ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 24, 2004, 10:51:43 AM
XP Professional offers a few more features but is supposed to become better as time goes on.  We will see.  I know the Microsoft lifeline for XP Home is less than XP Professional but I am not sure of all the differences.  Perhaps Neil could enlighten us?  Any recent polls but XP first, then 2000 and finally 98.  LOL  98SE in third place -- not too shabby for an operating system that was first released in 1999.  :>
Anyway, the Sasser creator was caught in Germany -- the reward money influenced people to turn the young adult male "script kiddie" in LOL  Sasser targets
(weblink courtesy of Microsoft) :>
http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/sasser.asp
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on May 24, 2004, 11:44:54 PM
AFAIK, there aren't much differences.  Pro just has a few more features than Home.  I think Pro supports dual cpu's, NTFS file encryption and possibly better multi-user support.  

<MS spokesperson>For more details on the differences between Windows XP Professional and Windows XP Home Edition, visit http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/whichxp.asp and find out which product is right for you.</MS spokesperson>

 ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on May 27, 2004, 03:39:55 PM
I was just asking because I used both, and couldn't really tell the difference. Of course, I didn't use dual cpu's, file encryption or multi-users ::)

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on May 28, 2004, 05:20:08 PM
And the differernce between them is...?? ???
For one, XP Pro probably can't be anymore unstable than XP Home. :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on May 29, 2004, 06:03:31 PM
It could be AS unstable though... :-\
I assumed XP pro didn't crash as much because I haven't tried running any old games on it, like I did with XP home. Or in the words of the XP home owner: "My computer was just fine before you got here!" :P  Sure, it's fine as long as you don't ask it to do anything weird, like, I dunno, run a program? :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on May 29, 2004, 09:42:20 PM
I've had XP Pro crash on me when trying to run LSL6, 7, MoE (except the program itself crashed, not the O/S) and KQ7 first edition was kinda wacky with Win95 for me.  ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on May 30, 2004, 02:35:39 AM
It is nice to know that critical updates for 98, 98SE and ME will continue until 30 June 2006 via the Windows Update site.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 04, 2004, 10:20:48 AM
Upgrading my PC to a dual-boot with 98SE and XP Professional.  Thanks to my mom and dad for providing me with some funds for the upgrade.  I am really excited about this.   !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 05, 2004, 12:47:48 AM
Anyone care to comment about Longhorn, XPsp2, or anything even remotely connected to Windows, Microsoft or Linux/Unix, etc.?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 08, 2004, 02:29:33 AM
What does everyone think about BHO (Browser Helper Objects)?  Do you think they should be allowed to install on a computer or by installing on a computer are they making the system less secure?
Title: Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: InvertedSilence on June 10, 2004, 07:57:13 PM
Something Lousisiana left out,
In my personal opinion AVOID WINDOWS XP! Not only does it cost more but if you EVER want to play another kings quest game (excluding VIII and IX hopefully) and dont have extensive knowledge of dos, keep away from xp. I'd personally reccomend windows98 which seems to have the least problems. Im hoping to God that xp wont conflict with IX in any way, although it shouldn't seening as it only really ahs problems with older games.
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 10, 2004, 09:33:35 PM
Which, I presume, only works on DOS games. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 11, 2004, 06:14:30 AM
Actually, you can buy Windows 98 commerically, and quite easily. In fact, it still hasn't gone down much in price. :P

And I disagree that WinXP is a great OS. It's the most irritating OS I ever had the displeasure of trying to use.

And just running DOS programs alone is useless. I have a fair number of Windows games (and likely programs) that won't run in XP. What do I do for those? I'd rather not dual boot... aside from the fact that I'm not saavy enough to set that up, I'd rather just be able to play my games without a lot of fuss.

And how can you "borrow" a WinXP CD? Every time you installed or re-install XP, you have to register it with M$, don't you? Seeing as how I re-install Windows about once a year, that would get pretty irritating as well.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: InvertedSilence on June 11, 2004, 06:15:11 AM
Quote
USE DOSBOX!

I do.  :)

Quote
Also, KQ9 uses a new modern game engine, which will actually run better on an up-to-date XP system, than windows 98.

Awesome, I love you guys.
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 11, 2004, 10:48:23 AM
Will it still run useably in Windows 98? I need a new computer regardless, so that doesn't bother me too much, but installing an OS I don't need or want just for one game is another thing entirely. :P

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: GunHoMac on June 11, 2004, 11:58:23 AM
Win98 was good, but it's basically become obsolete because of security holes, crash triggers, and emulators on XP can accomplish the work of 98 in a more efficient manner (mainly because people NOT from MS made them)

you just have to deal with the RAM issue with XP, everything else you can customize...break out google and learn how to whip your XP into submission

the point of XP was to make a system not reliant on legacy material, hence many old games don't behave under XP (but a lot more do than on 2000, ME, OSX, etc...)...so instead of making XP capatible with everything before it and bringing in all the problems of those systems, just streamline a new system and let 3rd-parties emulate the system settings they need

of course I'll just wait for Longhorn to come and spank XP properly
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 11, 2004, 12:53:25 PM
Sure, I could uninstall all the things in WinXP that M$ thinks I need but don't, deactivate all the interface "features" that M$ thinks make life easier but do the opposite, install and run several different 3rd-party programs and emulators because M$ thinks people don't need to run old programs when I do, apply several different patches to fix problems and create new ones, etc., etc., and get... not much benefit in the process.

Or I could just run Windows 98 and get on with my life. ;)

When M$ creates an OS that has streamlined code, doesn't suck up hard drive space and resources, comes bundled with non-OS-crucial programs that are optional installs instead of built-in requirements, is customizable, has a compatibility mode for old programs that actually works, provides quick updates for any discovered security holes or bugs , and has an interface that doesn't look like it was made for a kindergardener and doesn't look cramped on a 1024x768 screen, then I'll upgrade.

Since I suspect that will happen slightly before Hell freezes over, about all I can do is hope that by time Win98 becomes completely non-viable, Linux will have evolved into something other than a geek toy. :P

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 11, 2004, 03:41:01 PM
Anyone like Windows ME or think it has anything to offer over 98SE or Windows XP Home/Professional?
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Storm on June 11, 2004, 05:15:47 PM
And how can you "borrow" a WinXP CD? Every time you installed or re-install XP, you have to register it with M$, don't you?

So? can you only register once for each WinXP CD? if so, it must be a miracle (or a crack) which makes the XP I'm using right now work :S

Jeysie -
I really don't see what you have against WinXP... you are using Win98, aren't you? and except for the backwards compatibility issues, I really don't see much of a difference between XP and 98 (at least not in favour of 98) in any of the things I use it for :S
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Grundy on June 11, 2004, 07:10:55 PM
First of all, GunHo made it clear why 98 is obsolete. Crashes, Security ( Lack of ), based on dos. etc...

As for registering XP, MS got told off for doing that and for just over a year now, regestering XP became OPTIONAL.

I have being using XP for a long time now, and havn't given MS ANY information about myself or computer EVER!  No regestering at all.


But! I do completely agree on a few points you made, and persoanlly, I would use Linux if only 3D Studio Max ran on it.
( The windows Emulators are too weak to run such a powerful program. So that's not an option. )

Also, if you're using a 1024res, it's probably showing how old your system is.   :P
I run on Dual 19" LCD's at 2560x1024 ( 1280x1024 x 2 )

As for buying 98, Microsoft no longer Supports the product, nor do they produce it. If you can find a copy to buy, go for it, but it would be a big waste of money. ;)

Also, if you hate MS so much, why do you defend 98 with such a passion?   ;D


XP!   :suffer:
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: InvertedSilence on June 11, 2004, 09:58:51 PM
I use a 1024 res and im running a 2.5 Ghz pentium 4 with a 19" lcd.
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Grundy on June 11, 2004, 10:47:22 PM
Max R3 is too old. It also ran on 98...

As for the new versions, they wont run on anything less than 2000,2003 or XP.

If you can get a screenshot of Max 6 working WELL in Linux... I will move to Linux right now!  :)

As for 1024 on a 19"LCD....
The Native resolution on 19" LCD's is atleast 1280x1024. Even 17" LCD's use 1280x1024 as the default res, except for a cheap few.

Inverted, my point, 1280x1024 is much nicer to use than 1024, and you wont "look cramped" as Jeysie put it.  ;)
Your computer should be able to handle it too. If unfortunately, your 19"LCD is older technology and doesn't support above 1024, time to get a new monitor.   XB
( Then KQ9 will absolutely blow your mind! )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 11, 2004, 10:52:02 PM
I have found ME seems to lack some of the backwards compatibility of 98SE.  You must use a floppy disk to access MS-DOS.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Johnmichael on June 12, 2004, 02:25:56 PM
I dont know whats the best but i do know i have a newish comp and it has XP and i must say i hate it, pain in the ass to run dos programs, all i wanted to do was play day of the tentacle and it took like two hours just to get it to work.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 12, 2004, 08:21:24 PM
Another possibility is having a dual-boot computer with 98SE and XP.  Since 98SE, is 9x code it tends to run MS-DOS games much better than the NT code (XP).  The only problems with 98SE is that it will not run some of the latest hardware and is fast reaching the maximum capabilities of running current hardware on this operating system.  For example, 137 gigabyte hard drive is the maximum size unless you use a controller card to overcome this limitation.
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: GunHoMac on June 13, 2004, 01:03:15 AM
XP seems to dislike driver loading because it's an angry beast with undisciplined programming staff...but all you really need to do is go to the device in the control panel (system|devices) and load the driver manually since there're almost always updated versions online that address such issues...then you just download the update and "update driver"

of course this may be too much effort in the sense you're referring, and I agree that MS programmers aren't all that intellegent in the usability department (as long as it works somehow it's good enough for us)...but you can always load everything manually instead of the "wizards" and it won't matter if you're using XP or 95
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 13, 2004, 09:07:08 AM
Yeah, the taskbar menu thing was irritating, since I often have a lot of windows open that I need to easily switch back and forth between.

Hmm. I only network to Harrison's computer, and we don't worry about security since neither or us does any mucking or file transferring without permission, so I don't need anything fancy there.

Windows 98 doesn't crash or BSOD on me very often, and seeing as how it's usually my *programs* being stupid that does it, and I'd still need those programs on XP, I'm not sure how a new OS would help. Plus, does XP still do that thing where it automatically reboots instead of giving a BSOD? On 98, I can usually recover without rebooting, or at least take the time to properly save and close my programs before doing so.

I do sometimes have problems with resources, but only when I have 70+ Notepad windows open, plus Opera, Firefox, and IE6, plus the Find Files window, plus several folders, plus CoolPlayer, plus Sound Recorder, plus Irfanview or iPhoto Express... :suffer:

And, can you get XP's interface to "function" like Windows 98, as in, *one* menu for program shortcuts directly available, settings that are a few clicks away, and easy direct access to folders and files with no menus or pop-ups? I actually don't even have my Programs Menu set up in the usual "company" groups, I have it set up in groups like "Internet" and "Word Processing". How does XP handle setting up new file type options? I use the right-click menus pretty heavily.

The games thing is still a problem. :P

And... are the system requirements really that high? I do a lot of stuff with video and audio files, not to mention having a lot of stuff open at a time, so if I buy a lot of RAM and disk space, I'd rather have my programs and files using it, not my OS. :-\

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Storm on June 13, 2004, 09:12:45 AM
I don't know much about Unix... my encounters with it usually ended up in frustration on my part and error messages on its part. I don't know that much about Windows either - I only use it.

The major pro for Windows is that more people use it. Therefore, most software is written for it (or is it the other way around? :S)

Linux is less common, but Linux users know more about their OS(so you can get help easier).

Does that really mean you can get help easier? you make it sound like Windows doesn't have tech support :-\


Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Storm on June 13, 2004, 10:07:11 AM
Windows 98 doesn't crash or BSOD on me very often, and seeing as how it's usually my *programs* being stupid that does it, and I'd still need those programs on XP, I'm not sure how a new OS would help.

The good thing about XP is that when a program crashes it usually doesn't send the rest of the system crashing down with it, something that happens to me quite often on Win98 :-\

I do sometimes have problems with resources, but only when I have 70+ Notepad windows open, plus Opera, Firefox, and IE6, plus the Find Files window, plus several folders, plus CoolPlayer, plus Sound Recorder, plus Irfanview or iPhoto Express... :suffer:

Are you serious? I can't have more than 20 windows opened without it starting to complain about lack of memory :o

And, can you get XP's interface to "function" like Windows 98, as in, *one* menu for program shortcuts directly available, settings that are a few clicks away, and easy direct access to folders and files with no menus or pop-ups?

Yes ;)
You just right-click on the taskbar->properties->start menu and choose "Classic Start Menu" 8)

I actually don't even have my Programs Menu set up in the usual "company" groups, I have it set up in groups like "Internet" and "Word Processing".

Heh, I do that too... having them organized by compay name is illogical and confusing ::)

How does XP handle setting up new file type options? I use the right-click menus pretty heavily.

Fine, I think... didn't try it, but the setup screen looks just like 98's.
Title: Re:Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 13, 2004, 01:17:43 PM
Thanks for the LiveCD thought. :) As for getting Linux, I'd likely have to shell out the money for disks, just because I'd probably die of old age before I could download it. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Yonkey on June 13, 2004, 09:51:41 PM
I tile windows a lot, but I actually hardly ever use ALT-TAB. I find it quicker to click between taskbar buttons than I do tabbing through the switcher menu (or sifting through cascaded windows, for that matter).
I actually don't use Alt-Tab much either when I have too many things open.  Usually the taskbar is enough, but some people prefer switching using that.  8)

I usually don't bother letting ScanDisk finish when that happens, I just run ScanDisk once a week while I'm asleep, and let any goofs get picked up that way.
Heh, I did that too, but sometimes programs and/or the O/S would keep crashing and crashing because of some lost cluster-related problems from an incomplete scandisk.  It usually doesn't take longer than a minute or two on my hard drive, but it's still an annoyance. :P


Also, I'm a little puzzled on the file system when it comes to dual-booting with 98 (which I would have to figure out how to do if I ever used XP). Don't you then have to be careful what files you put in which partition? I'd end up having to put most of my files and programs in the FAT partition anyway so 98 could read it, which would negate that benefit. :-\
Well, an XP NTFS system can see any kind of partition below.  It's the reverse that isn't true.  So, I usually wouldn't install the same programs in both places, and I usually keep my data on one drive (the one I'd use more often).  If you kept everything on your Win98 partition, I don't see the problem.  You'd still be able to access them when you wish to use WinXP.  

Well, I was more saying that I don't run into resource problems unless I try running an amount of stuff that would send any middle-to-low-end computer wheezing regardless. :suffer: Wouldn't a high-end computer solve much of the issue just on better specs alone?
Hehe, well what I was trying to say, was even if you have GB's of memory, Win9x will eventually use it all up and crash on you.  It has memory leaks and doesn't always release the ram it uses for certain programs.  I think dew mentioned the max amount of ram Win98 supports too, so there's actually a limit to how high-end you can go with that O/S.

Programs crashing and freezing are caused by memory-related errors.  Either a program tries to access a part of memory that it doesn't have access to, or some other program overwrites another one's space, or it just keeps writing and writing without cleaning up the crap when it's done.  And yes, every O/S crashes and freezes, but reliability is based on how often it crashes.  I find the NT architecture to be more reliable than the 9x.

I have right-click menus attached to almost every major file type, just because I often have two or three different things I might do to a file (and two or three different programs to do it).
The right-click, Open With... context menu with alternate programs existed since Win2k and it's definitely in Win9x as well.  I believe I had to use TweakUI or some third-party program to accomplish this in Win95 and 98.

As for the systems requirements thing, I knew about the whole swap file thing. :) I'd want to use my new computer to make DVD stuff, plus I already make AVIs regularly for snapshot and transcript purposes, not to mention extracting WAVs.
I've never tried making DVD's before, but extracting WAV's worked fine for me on any O/S.  That was more dependant on your CPU.  DVD and AVI creation is dependant on CPU speed, memory usage, video card and the capturing software.  I don't think you can say one Windows O/S is better than another, but I know that Macs are way better at these kinds of things than PC's.  ;P

And you mentioned Win2000 a while back. I like 2000 for business purposes, and if I had an all-business PC, I'd likely use 2000 over 98. But I find it less desireable as an all-purpose OS, with a big chunk of that being poor gaming support. IIRC, something about the different way NT handles system calls and hardware resources and whatnot makes it more stable for the purposes of business software and networking, but makes it worse for the access requirements of gaming. I think WinXP is based on NT, isn't it?, which is why it's lousier for games than 98.
Correct, I think WinNT couldn't even run DOOM when it came out, because of driver issues or something.  It is still possible to play games in Win2k and XP, but I've always heard that Win98 is like the benchmark to which other games are compared against in terms of Windows gaming.

At least, that's if I interpreted all the techie stuff properly. :P
Nice job!  XD
Title: Re:Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: dew7 on June 13, 2004, 10:37:17 PM
Can we put Apple into this debate too or must it go into another thread?  BTW, 98SE remains my favorite and I like MS-DOS so I might like Linux okay but I have not tried it.  The Live CD sounds interesting.  How do I get one and does it cost money?
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 13, 2004, 10:38:29 PM
I don't like any Mac OS. Most of the hardware I like to use, doesn't work on them. I also don't like their CPUs(slow).
Title: Unix based OS and/or/versus Windows
Post by: Jeysie on June 13, 2004, 10:45:10 PM
Hmm, maybe that wasn't Open With, but Send To... anyway, I know I had to use TweakUI for this in Win95.  I can't remember if I could do this in Win98.  I know that even if I chose a different program in the Open With dialog box, it wouldn't remember unless I forced it to Always use this program to open this file type.  ::)

Ahh. Send To's harder to tweak, in the sense that, all you have to do is stick shortcuts in the folder C->Windows->SendTo, *but* you have to create the right path in the shortcut. :P

With file types, I just set everything up directly... you open any file folder, and choose view->options->file types and tweak away. If I have a file that needs the "Open with" dialogue, I usually want to keep it unassigned (for one reason or another).

Helpful note to anyone who needs it: When you put the program path in the "Application used to perform action" box, put "%1" after it. Like, you'd have:

"C:\Program Files\Accessories\Wordpad.exe" "%1"

That keeps Windows from tripping up on directory names with spaces. :P

Just something to keep in mind if you still use 98 for anything. :)

And thanks for putting up with telling me all this info, it's good stuff to know. :)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 13, 2004, 10:59:14 PM
Okay, thanks. Sorry about the message.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 13, 2004, 11:11:17 PM
(I actually sort of skipped over DOS, jumping from a C-128/64 straight to a Win95 PC.)
You missed out on Win 3.1 and 3.11 too?  :-\  I loved that Windows!  It was like one big Start menu!  XD
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 13, 2004, 11:17:57 PM
You missed out on Win 3.1 and 3.11 too?  :-\  I loved that Windows!  It was like one big Start menu!  XD

Hee! Well, I didn't totally miss out on it... when I first met Harrison and started hanging out with him, he owned a 486 with Windows 3.11 on it. (In fact, he *still* owns it after all this time. Although it's definitely on its last legs at this point. XD) The first time I got a look at it, I was like, "Wow, cool! It's like a cooler version of GEOS!" To which he replied, "What the hell is GEOS?" XD Then he got me addicted to Scorched Earth, but that's a whole other story.

Actually, I kind of like Windows 3.11, for what it is/was... I miss the lack of a right-click menu, but that's mostly it.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 13, 2004, 11:22:08 PM
You never have to use the command line if you don't want to, in Linux. It will just limit(slightly) what you are capable of doing with it. Besides, when I was learning to use the command line, I stopped the graphical interface(not on purpose). It took me days to figure out what I did, and how to fix it. I've lost count of how many computers I've crashed, learning how to use them.

I never used 3.11, but I thought 3.1 was great.

Something fun to do with Windows. Replace the beggining graphics(when Windows is loading). I'd have trouble explaining it, let me see if I can find a link.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 13, 2004, 11:27:17 PM
The Windows boot-up screen?  Hehe, yeah I know a lot of people did this,  I usually left mine intact though.  ;P

Also, I can't remember the difference between 3.1 and 3.11, besides 3.11 was called "Windows for Workgroups".  I guess it had more networking capabilities?  I never had the Internet back then anyway, so it was never taken adventage of.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on June 14, 2004, 04:08:02 AM
Ok i know that i have to get a new Windows soon and i have a few options but i dont know which is best :-\

Should i dual boot with XP and 98se, just use XP, or get ME ???
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 14, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
For some reason I liked Windows 3.1 better than Windows 3.11 but I am not sure why.  MS-DOS ruled  and I remember thinking that DOS 5 was cool because I love the power that a text-based interface can give you.  Windows XP only has an emulator -- no true MS-DOS like 98SE.  I love the ability to type my commands.  I plan to learn about editing the Windows registry and more about autoexec.bat and config.sys.  I am stuck in the Windows 98 Second Edition time warp.  LOL  BTW, I think the Linux threat played a crucial role in why Microsoft decided to continue to support 98, 98SE and ME until at least 30 June 2006.  The official line was to help support third world countries.  IMO, this is a great pr line.  I cannot find a better operating system than 98SE that lets me have most of true MS-DOS (some commands have been removed since the last MS-DOS which I think was 6.22)  while running old school games and will let me run most new hardware, most new software and almost all if not all the new games.  :> LOL  -- 98SE rules but I certainly will have to try Linux --- can you suggest the cd where I can try it out safely without messing up my PC.  BTW, TweakUI although not supported by Microsoft is a great utility for removing the Windows splash screen.  This is one topic that I do not want locked so please keep your tempers down and no politics or religion or anything else that will cause this thread to be locked and thanks for starting this thread.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on June 15, 2004, 04:12:48 AM
Well i dont know if i should spend $350 on XP Pro or $200 on XP Home :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on June 15, 2004, 07:20:29 AM
Dont bother with professional, especially not for $150 extra. Just get home it does the job and unless you want to play loads of old games I wouldn't even bother with the 98 dual boot.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on June 15, 2004, 07:51:46 AM
Yeah, there's not much difference between Pro and Home.  So I say dual boot with 98SE and XP Home.  :)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 15, 2004, 09:33:55 AM
Runs to Jeysie's defense of Windows 98SE edition.
This operating system rules --- here's why:

1. True MS-DOS and great backwards compatibility for old games
2. 98SE supports USB 2.0 -- 98 does not
3. Better Gaming with 98SE
4. To achieve full modern hardware and software support you must dual boot with 98SE and XP Pro. -- Microsoft has forced me and many of my friends into this corner by having two different lines of code ---
NT which is NT 4.0, 2000, XP Pro/Home, Windows Server 2003
5. Everybody who thinks the NT code is secure --- ha, ha, ha --- biggest Microsoft lie around -- see following website on vulnerabilities and when it is hacked only 9x users, Unix/Linux users and Apple users will be safe

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/20031007.html

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/20040318.html

(this one shows how the NT source code at its base is less secure than 9x no matter what people tell you)

Also see this in how IBM computers are now vulnerable to hackers:

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/20040220.html

Still feel safe with NT (New Technology -- originally called Not There by Microsoft employees in the history books of Microsoft because they knew that the 9x code was better)

Also, you can have a machine that is off-line to be really safe.  Just make sure you check all cds, floppies, usb drives, etc. that are not brand new and have been given or sold to you.  Better yet just use new computer stuff in this computer and do not even think of trying to share mp3s.  This certainly limits your use of the computer but at least it should be mostly safe. LOL and many people think NT is secure -- I also suggest you read 1984 by George Orwell because it will help you to put things into perspective and not be too trusting of anyone.
Also, see this page about Microsoft support of 98, 98SE and ME and please everyone especially grundy do not make assumptions about pcs unless you really know what you are talking about.  In this case I am referring to the remaining lifeline of 9x.  No disrepect grundy -- I am just passionate about the truth in all things especially with computers

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[LN];LifeAn1

Help your security needs by getting the free Windows Update Security cd and thanks Microsoft for realizing that NT is not secure yet and extending lifesupport for 98SE because Microsoft realizes that the XP MS-DOS Emulator cannot run all old MS-DOS games like 98SE can run many more -- 98SE you have the option of exiting to true MS-DOS mode and not false MS-DOS mode which exists in XP and other NT based operating systems.  Alright, my raving about 98SE is over for now and feel free to edit this post if I inadvertently offended grundy too much and I am sorry about that but pc software and especially security needs is my passion in life LOL

http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/cd/order.asp
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 15, 2004, 09:45:31 AM
The 9x code has 95, 98, 98SE and ME and btw grundy 98,98SE and ME are supported until 30 June 2006 with critical security updates at the Windows Update site.  95 is not supported anymore because it is too old.  There is a lot to be said for MS-DOS 6.22 and I may include that in my computer as well and have a tri-boot of MS-DOS 6.22, 98SE and XP Professional.  It is a good thing that I am into security and protecting my computer and am not a hacker because with a little more study I could really cause problems on people's pcs if I really had the mind and motivation too.  Don't worry I am on the side of keeping a PC safe.  Now, if only we could go on the offensive and start shutting hacker's computers down then I would think that is really awesome.  Don't even get me started on the problems with ME because this operating system failed with many different types of hardware.  It was an insult to the 9x code because you had to use a boot disk to get into MS-DOS.  I think Microsoft was hoping to migrate 9x users onto one platform of NT because they wanted to save money by having one line of code which makes hackers lives easier because now they only have to focus on breaking into NT based systems because the market for 9x is almost all consumer and it is no longer the latest or greatest thing and this can be a good thing sometimes.
Latest Statistics that I know (may be wrong about this)
1. Windows XP Home/Pro.
2. Windows 2000
3. Windows 98 and 98SE (Yeah I fall into this group 98SE and soon to be 98SE/XP Professional which goes to show that I am not totally against NT but sometimes you just need 9x too)
Finally, remember I started out with an IBM PCjr which I still have and my dad teaching me how to program in the BASIC language --- high technology -- LOL -- 16 color ega graphics card with three sounds at once built in internal speaker --- those were the days -- okay now I plan to hook up my IBM PCjr and play old games
(Also, had keyboard which you could unplug and put in two double AA batteries and it would work -- no software to muck about with unlike today's wireless keyboards which need software drivers)  Ah!, yes those were the days and easier times
10 cls (clear screen :>)
20 sound on
30 octave ... etc.  you get the idea  8)   ;D   ;)   !!!
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 15, 2004, 10:29:29 AM
I agree with you Neil and would say that it is fine to dual-boot with 98SE and XP Home unless you really need the few extra features of XP Professional which I don't think too many people need.  Neil, why do you think Microsoft has forced so many people to dual-boot their pcs in order to have full backwards compatibility and full forwards compatibility while making it difficult and somewhat expensive to obtain 98SE which is really popular.  The supply and demand theory is trying to be reversed by Microsoft by not having a fully updated 98SE cd for the masses who want it.  Gary Terhune -- 9x MVP is 98 general newsgroup mentioned how Microsoft is under some legal obligations not to release any more 9x or NT licenses.  Do you know anything more about this?   ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on June 16, 2004, 03:02:48 AM
Dont bother with professional, especially not for $150 extra. Just get home it does the job and unless you want to play loads of old games I wouldn't even bother with the 98 dual boot.
Well most of the old games i play have been remade for XP ;D, because i have bought them in Collector sets and stuff :D, so no problems there ;)

Yeah, there's not much difference between Pro and Home.  So I say dual boot with 98SE and XP Home.  :)
Yes i will definitely Dual boot then ;D, but before i dual boot i will have to work out how to do it properly :-\
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: racx_00 on June 16, 2004, 03:24:15 AM
My favourite windows is Windows 3.1 ;D, the first computer i ever got had 3.1 and i loved it :D, unfortunately though i cant find any copies of 3.1 :'(

BTW my friend heard that Windows 98se will only be supported until 2005 now :-\ :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on June 16, 2004, 09:55:52 AM
Here's a cheap way of getting XP(almost any version).

Get a copy of a friend's CD, then buy your own CD-key.

Wouldn't that be just as illegal as using your friend's CD-key? ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 16, 2004, 02:07:32 PM
No.

You don't have to pay for the CDs, manuals, tech support, etc.

If you don't need any of that stuff, just buy a CD-key(the right to use the product on a single machine).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on June 16, 2004, 03:31:04 PM
Neil, why do you think Microsoft has forced so many people to dual-boot their pcs in order to have full backwards compatibility and full forwards compatibility while making it difficult and somewhat expensive to obtain 98SE which is really popular.  

I think they made the ability to dual-boot because they didn't want people using third party tools (i.e. Partition Magic, System Commander, etc) to dual-boot.  However, the ability to dual-boot existed since Win2k.  At install, XP asks if you would like to Upgrade or to perform a New Installation.  If you choose upgrade, you obviously won't have the ability to dual-boot.  ;P
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 17, 2004, 01:00:04 AM
Anyone here, ever try FreeBSD(the latest Mac OS, is based on it)? I'd like to know how it compares to Linux.

If you're planning on trying Linux, here's a quiz(it's quite accurate, for me anyways)

What Linux distro is right for you? (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?board=37;action=display;threadid=1227;start=300#lastPost)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 17, 2004, 03:41:22 AM
Thanks, Neil.  I will have two hard disks and I was told to install 98SE first and then install Windows XP Professional.  Is it best to use a third party program to hide the two operating systems from each other.  I want them to both be hidden from each other so if one operating system goes down then I have the other one.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: racx_00 on June 17, 2004, 04:37:17 AM
My friend was relaying what he had heard ;D, so he wasnt deliberately trying to mislead me ;), thankfully we can have a conversation without him arguing :-\ :D
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Say on June 17, 2004, 12:02:07 PM
dew dont be meanieh, lol, you dont know this person to be talking about him like that, friends always get into discussions sometimes, its a normal thing anyways.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on June 17, 2004, 04:54:34 PM
Lol I always try to blag things to my friends if I'm not too sure of the facts, it just happens! Like one of my friends always asks me about consoles and when games are coming out etc so if I don't know I'd just guess and say its fact.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 18, 2004, 01:17:29 AM
My conscience gets me if I ever try and tell a lie.  :>
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: racx_00 on June 18, 2004, 04:23:16 AM
Yeah but we have too many arguments :-\, anyway he is really badly bullied at school so i think it reflects the way he acts these days :-\, as i think i said once before we have been friends for 12 years and only in the past two he has been weird :(, anyway im not really mad at him cos i know what its like to be bullied :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on June 18, 2004, 02:24:11 PM
I ended up just keeping my old 98SE computer, and went whole hog with the new computer. I heard XP and 98SE on the same system can get very unstable and is hard to maintain. It's easier just to have two computers and a KVM switch. ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 18, 2004, 07:22:26 PM
Trios would be better, if they were still in business...
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 20, 2004, 12:17:39 AM
So is having a third party program the way to go for dual boot?  Any suggestions on the best third party program?
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 20, 2004, 12:19:43 AM
Well, I am glad you are there to help him, racx_00
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: racx_00 on June 20, 2004, 03:03:59 AM
Thanks Dew :), but i dont think im that helpful :-\
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 20, 2004, 04:25:00 PM
You have to believe in yourself and for me that is where my faith is so helpful to my internal strength.  It is a comforting feeling knowing that there is something out there that is watching you and may even be willing to help you through times of need.  It helps to prevent me from becoming too prideful because I can say that I am not the center of the universe.  I am not saying anything bad about you or anyone else.  This is what works for me and what works for you can be totally different.  However, scientific studies have proved that if you get enough sleep, eat the right food and not too much, get enough excercise and have a really positive self-image that this will greatly improve your life and I know how many of you like science so why not give it a try and if it does not work then you can go back to the old way of doing things.  :>
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on June 20, 2004, 05:57:13 PM
However, scientific studies have proved that if you get enough sleep, eat the right food and not too much, get enough excercise and have a really positive self-image that this will greatly improve your life and I know how many of you like science so why not give it a try and if it does not work then you can go back to the old way of doing things.  :>

Lol Dew, saying that and doing it are two very different things!

ANYWAYZ! Back on topic, did anyone happen to see a feed of a recent new variant of the traditional 2D OS system from a company who's name escapes me (yeah helpful I know :P). It was quite cool what they were suggestiong for example rather than just have a window 2D on teh screen you could move it and view the back and write notes on it and such. Hehe sounds a bit gimmicky I kow but there were other examples which demonstrated its uses better...anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?  :o
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 20, 2004, 07:03:14 PM
I can only think of 2 things. Either the new Windows(not out yet), that has a 3D interface, or a 3rd party program(I have one, it replaces the 2D desktop, with a 3D one)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 20, 2004, 07:47:10 PM
GRUB(I think that's the name), is a decent choice.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on June 21, 2004, 01:37:24 PM
haha no it was DEFINATELY not Longhorn. It was another company basically saying "Look windows is getting stagnant and boring" and offering new ways that OS's can innovate and improve over windows...I'll try and find the link.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 21, 2004, 10:58:14 PM
This is the closest thing I could find.

3D OSX (http://www.client-success.com/html/3dosx.php)

P.S. I got a free 3D desktop(customizable), with my last videocard. So 3D desktops aren't anything new, but an OS with a 3D interface is.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 21, 2004, 11:34:15 PM
I wouldn't call that sort of window manipulation an "innovation or improvement"... more like a glitzy gimmick. It might be useful for image editing, but I can't imagine it being all that useful for anything else.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 21, 2004, 11:50:08 PM
I didn't really look at the link. Like I said, "This is the closest thing I could find".
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 21, 2004, 11:57:43 PM
Sorry, Lousiana, I was referring to Alex's quote about " It was another company basically saying 'Look windows is getting stagnant and boring" and offering new ways that OS's can innovate and improve over windows...'"

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 12:09:23 AM
My mistake.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 22, 2004, 12:41:18 AM
It's OK, I didn't want you to think I was dissing you or anything. (Just dissing whatever company Alex was quoting. :P )

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 01:05:53 AM
Thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant. I don't really see a use for a 3D interface either. Although I enjoy 3D effects, on a 2D interface(which sometimess have uses).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 22, 2004, 01:56:15 AM
I will have to research the topic.  Thanks for the suggestion, LN.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 22, 2004, 02:17:49 AM
So LN do you use Windows, Linux, Apple and DOS in order to have the knowledge and expertise of many operating systems?
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 07:28:02 AM
So LN do you use Windows, Linux, Apple and DOS in order to have the knowledge and expertise of many operating systems?

I use Linux(Redhat9) as my main OS. I use Windows(98SE) for compatibility(and to connect to the internet, at the moment). I've used Windows 3.1,95,98,98SE,NT4.0,and XP. I used to use a BASIC system(color computer). I use Linux as my mobile OS(Mandrake). I'm about to switch from 98SE, to XP(and I've used it many times before). I used to use DOS, now I use DOSbox to play my old games. I only use Apple, when I'm at a someone's house that has one, or when I'm playing around with the new OS  at a store. I Google for some of my information(like Apple), so I wouldn't call it knowledge, or expertise.

gibberish?

P.S. I also use certain Linux distros, for special purposes, and plan to try SUSE(Linux) soon.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Oldbushie on June 22, 2004, 01:07:08 PM
If you have a 3d desktop why not get a 3d mouse? ;) I was thinking it could be a ball suspended in a small wireframe box with buttons aranged on it appropriately. ;)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Storm on June 22, 2004, 01:34:00 PM
Here's a 3D mouse (http://www.vrealities.com/3dmouse.html) ;)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Oldbushie on June 22, 2004, 01:56:17 PM
Freaky, and a little too expensive methinks. ;) I could make a much cheaper mouse that does the same thing. ;)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on June 22, 2004, 03:00:05 PM
I wouldn't call that sort of window manipulation an "innovation or improvement"... more like a glitzy gimmick. It might be useful for image editing, but I can't imagine it being all that useful for anything else.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Well as I said that wasn't eh only new feature of teh OS, it was just a cool one that I remembered. Damn, I've REALLY gotta find that link now!
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 08:06:40 PM
Quote
If you have a 3d desktop why not get a 3d mouse?

I'll just use my trackball. Anyone seen those RTS(real time strategy) mice? Instead of moving the whole thing(mouse), you move your hand(like a mouse, but it doesn't move the base). I think they work very well, but they're too expensive($50+).

I used to use a thumb trackball, it worked well, until it died  :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 08:16:22 PM
Don't thank me yet, it might not be what you're looking for.

I've used it to dual-boot, but I used Linux as the main OS.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 22, 2004, 08:33:18 PM
I had a Logitech thumb trackball one for a while.  It was actually really good, but I got an optical mouse two Christmas' ago so I'm using that now.  ;D
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 08:52:03 PM
My thumb trackball, was optical.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 22, 2004, 08:54:42 PM
Mine too :P
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 22, 2004, 09:00:08 PM
Right now, I'm using a four button, optical, trackball. I have a basic mouse, as a backup.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on June 23, 2004, 01:11:18 AM
Man, Microsoft is slow about fixing the NT errors.
Look at these security errors that affect XP and the NT source code (all NT operating systems)  I hope that Microsoft can fix these errors before hackers find them.  Yet another plug for dual boot with 98SE and XP.  LOL  :>  8)   ;D   ;)

and yes Micorosoft knows about these problems -- I let them know :>

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 23, 2004, 01:20:22 AM
Two mice
1. Microsoft Optical Explorer Mouse -- usb slot
2. Basic Microsoft Mouse -- ps2 slot

BTW, Jason feel free to start another thread if you want to talk more about friendships

LN, do not go to XP quickly -- still has many security risks -- here are just two --  ::)

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 23, 2004, 01:25:22 AM
Quote
LN, do not go to XP quickly -- still has many security risks -- here are just two --  

It doesn't matter, I use Linux as my main OS. I plan to use XP for compatibility.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 23, 2004, 09:59:36 AM
I have a Logitech Optical mouse, with a scroll wheel-button in the middle. I have the button set to "double-click" and the wheel set to "full-screen". :) As much as I like it, I'm tempted to try a trackball one day, to see if it will reduce the amount of wrist discomfort I get while doing long bouts of coding. :P

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 23, 2004, 10:12:01 AM
The trackball was fun, your thumb gets a nice workout isntead of your wrist!  ;P

The only bad part about it is it's hard to control the cursor for precise things (like drawing or doodling).  Other than that it was great. :)

Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 24, 2004, 12:04:07 AM
Quote
The only bad part about it is it's hard to control the cursor for precise things (like drawing or doodling).

Are you talking about trackballs, or just the thumb controlled ones?
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Yonkey on June 24, 2004, 12:15:40 AM
The thumb ones.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 24, 2004, 01:51:11 AM
Neil, I am puzzled at why the media does not make a big deal about the security flaws that the NT code still has.  Why not have some headline like "Windows XP plagued by security flaws; experts suggest people use Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition or switch to Linux or Apple.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 24, 2004, 02:02:28 AM
I'm not the one you were talking to, but considering this is a public forum...

I doubt the average person cares, and those that do, probably care more about it working(and compatibility). Most people just use whatever comes with their PC anyways.

P.S. Consider the Lindows problem(person buys Lindows/Linux PC, person buys Windows software, person is confused, because the software doesn't work).
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 24, 2004, 02:28:03 AM
I agree with Louisiana. I overheard one of my co-workers flat out saying "I don't care about finding out how it works, I just use it." Not to mention when another co-worker was having problems, he asked one of the few people in the place who actually knows computer stuff besides me how to fix it. She told him "OK, I'll teach you how to fix the problem." He said "I don't want to know how to fix it, you fix it." Actually, he comes to her with computer problems a *lot*. (Yeah, like she has nothing better to do than fix your computer because you can't be bothered to learn how not to break it... er, (cough) sorry...)

Quite frankly, this sort of attitude baffles me. It's a device that you use 8 hours a day in ways that keeps your business running, and thus keeps you getting a weekly paycheck... while I don't expect everyone to desire to know all the ins and outs of computers, not wanting to know anything at all about them just doesn't make any sense to me. But that's the way many people are.

People b**** and whine and moan about viruses and spam and spyware, sure... but imply to them that they have to take time and effort into learning how to avoid such things, and suddenly the status quo is hunky-dory. Seriously, I have observed this effect many times.

In fact, an example:

The other day another of my co-workers and the lady who knows some computer stuff were talking about spam. The lady commented that he should try out the filter on their new Outlook installation. He said he kept having problems with the filter filtering out good e-mails. I told him that was because he had to take some time to teach the filter initially, by marking all of his e-mail "spam" or "not spam". He basically said "I don't have time for that!". Not understanding, of course, that spending a little extra time up front training the filter will save him time down the road filtering out spam manually. (I guess that's the main problem, at least in the business world... people never take the long view in terms of time and money investment.)

And then there's the numerous "What do you mean the computer can't read my mind?" type of tales I could regale... :P

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 24, 2004, 01:08:14 PM
I think Linux is better with viruses. If you really want to keep people out of your computer, make your own OS.  :suffer:
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 25, 2004, 12:43:53 AM
Jeysie, you mentioned Windows compatibility in Linux. Here's a good site to go to.

Linux Compatible (http://www.linuxcompatible.org/)

They base their results on popular emulators(and it is mostly based on user feedback), so it's not completely accurate.

P.S. Tierra games don't seem to work well in Linux.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 25, 2004, 01:43:05 AM
Windows = Closed Source
Linux = Open Source

Which will win in the long run?
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Jeysie on June 25, 2004, 05:41:33 AM
Thanks for the link, Louisiana... I'll look it over. :)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 25, 2004, 01:52:27 PM
I don't think either will win. The majority will stay with closed-source, and the minority with open-source. Even if I'm wrong, I'm sure some people will use one, and some the other. Unless there's another option, that I don't know about.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 25, 2004, 05:49:34 PM
I think you meant minority with open source not closed source :>  ;D
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 26, 2004, 10:24:49 PM
Dual booting with Linux and XP=bad

XP removed GRUB from my computer. Now I've reinstalled Linux, and am trying to get it setup. Also, I'm switching back to 98SE(I just can't get used to XP). I still think XP is the best, and worsed, of the Windows line.

P.S. Dew, thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 27, 2004, 12:16:17 AM
What do you mean by XP being the best and worst.  Please explain.  :>  (P.S.  You are most welcome)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 27, 2004, 12:25:39 AM
I like the NT/2000 line, because of NTFS. I liked the 9x line, because it was good for games. I dislike the NT/2000 line, because it made many things harder than they needed to be. I disliked the 9x line, because it used Fat. There are countless other reasons to like/dislike the NT/9x line. XP seems to have most of the advantages, and disadvantages, of both lines. So I consider it the best, and worst, of the Windows OSs.

So I think I'll stay with 98SE, until Microsoft refines the new line. Although I'll be trying their OSs anyways.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 27, 2004, 09:32:40 AM
Yeah, if you have looked at the thread "Which Windows is Best" you will see that I also feel that Microsoft's Windows 98 Second Edition is their best operating system even though it is dated. :>  BTW, critical updates for it will continue until 30 June 2006.  I hope to convince Microsoft to continue the 9x line to allow for an alternative to the NT code and provide more competition to Linux.  Finally, I will try Linux someday and the more annoyed I become with Microsoft the more likely I will try Linux.  However, Microsoft was helpful in extending 98, 98SE and ME's lifeline to 30 June 2006 and releasing the Windows Update Security cd for free.  See link below to order your copy.  :>

http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/cd/order.asp
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 27, 2004, 12:24:56 PM
Thanks, but I won't be getting a copy. As soon as I get Linux working over the internet(I've got a modem that works now), I won't have to worry about Windows security.

It could take a while to get working though, because I'm trying to get 98SE working first(and I'm trying to avoid dual-booting).
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 27, 2004, 11:25:26 PM
The update cd is completely free -- no shipping and works for 98, 98SE, ME 2000 and XP.  Why not acquire a copy.  It is really easy to sign up for.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 27, 2004, 11:56:09 PM
I'll consider it.

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on June 30, 2004, 01:02:14 PM
You are welcome.  LN, is the above link the best place for a possible future Linux user to investigate about the Linux operating system or do you have another better link that provides useful and detailed information.  <Thanks and the link being technical is okay -- much better for me at least than overly simplistic  LOL >   ;)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on June 30, 2004, 03:14:12 PM
Quote
LN, is the above link the best place for a possible future Linux user to investigate about the Linux operating system or do you have another better link that provides useful and detailed information.

Here's a better link. It's one of the best sites for new Linux users.
Tux Files (http://www.tuxfiles.org/)
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: dew7 on July 01, 2004, 12:26:27 AM
Thank you.  I will have to check it out.  :>
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on July 22, 2004, 11:33:58 PM
I thought it might be time to revive this thread.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on July 22, 2004, 11:48:57 PM
Yes, good time to revive it.

I think that Microsoft needs to get rid of the old 9x and NT code, and make something new. Unless they plan on reworking all the 9x code, which would probably be cheaper.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on July 23, 2004, 12:01:39 AM
I wonder if Longhorn will offer up anything good.  Also, I wonder when XP sp2 will be released.  I also would like to see the 9x code reworked and I wonder if Microsoft will have a maintenance operating system that can finally put MS-DOS to rest.  I have not had a chance to try out Linux yet but I am pleased to say that my dual-boot system with Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition and XP Professional is up and running.  I just have to work out a few kinks such as having all the drivers recognized and all the other software properly installed.  I still do not see the big deal of XP and think it was over-hyped by Microsoft.  Perhaps I will soon be ready to give Linux a try. :> I wonder how Copycat is doing with his computer.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on July 23, 2004, 12:20:42 AM
Quote
Perhaps I will soon be ready to give Linux a try.

That reminds me, have you noticed XP has more Unix support? I've been playing around with it for awhile(system restore is a great feature), and the network protocols(TCP/IP) seem to be more Unix-friendly.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on July 23, 2004, 09:17:44 AM
Perhaps Microsoft has realized it is better to give parts of Linux a chance within its own operating system than have large numbers of people switch to Linux.  (although I think this is very unlikely since a large amount of software is for Windows only)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 17, 2004, 03:27:47 PM
I wonder about XP SP2.  Will it live up to the hype?  Will it really correct most of the vulnerabilities in XP?  I guess only time will tell.  In the meantime check out this website which details vulnerabilities in NT, ME, 2000 and XP.  I noticed that 98SE was not listed in any of the vulnerabilities and that is another reason I think it is an awesome operating system.

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 05:58:27 PM
LOL! 98 wasn't listed because it's a lost cause.   :suffer:

I installed SP2 the day it was released... I had a few glitches with some programs, but they just needed to be updated.
Otherwise, nothing realy noticable has changed.    ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 17, 2004, 06:19:02 PM
98, 98SE, and ME will be supported until 30 June 2006 through the Windows Update Site.  I do not know what you mean by lost cause.  98SE certainly still has lots of users.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 06:43:21 PM
Unfortunately, there are a lot of users who don't know what they're missing out on.
 ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 06:57:13 PM
Yeah, they're missing out on wasting money on a hard drive space & RAM-wasting, security-hole-riddled OS that has lousy old program compatability (thus wasting more money on upgrading programs that they wouldn't otherwise need to upgrade) with a crappy interface. :D (dons flack jacket)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 07:11:55 PM
(dons flack jacket)


Yeah! You better don it woman!  ;P

I was keeping it simple, I'm not going to get into specifics. Little miss 'ancient crap computer' person you!  :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 07:16:29 PM
LOL! Don't bring my crap computer into it... even when I get a new fancy-schmancy computer, I'm still not using XP. ;) Linux, most likely, if it eventually becomes something other than a geek toy, but not XP.

Maybe Longhorn will actually be an OS (worth getting), as opposed to failing at trying to be everything *and* the kitchen sink, but I'm not holding my breath. (M$ can't even get an internet browser right, after all. ::) )

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 07:24:53 PM
*Jeysie just painted a few red concentric circles on her back.*


Though, I just got Fedora ( Red Hat 10 ), I'm going to install it on this system when I buy my new computer in a month or two.  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 08:53:32 PM
even when I get a new fancy-schmancy computer, I'm still not using XP. ;) Linux, most likely, if it eventually becomes something other than a geek toy, but not XP.

Linux is just as good, if not better, than Windows. The only problem is compatibility, and it's not doing too bad in the area either.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 09:06:37 PM
I would easily say that linux is better than any windows OS, except ofcourse, the compatibility.   :)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 09:09:46 PM
Linux is just as good, if not better, than Windows. The only problem is compatibility, and it's not doing too bad in the area either.

It's not really compatibility I'm worried about... it's mostly just my games that are Windows-only, and there's probably ways to work around that. (Or, just boot into Win98, since they're mostly old games.) It's more the usability... Linux still strikes me as something you need to have programming/power user ability to use, which I have little of either.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 09:26:02 PM
I would easily say that linux is better than any windows OS, except ofcourse, the compatibility.   :)

I agree.


Linux is just as good, if not better, than Windows. The only problem is compatibility, and it's not doing too bad in the area either.

It's not really compatibility I'm worried about... it's mostly just my games that are Windows-only, and there's probably ways to work around that. (Or, just boot into Win98, since they're mostly old games.) It's more the usability... Linux still strikes me as something you need to have programming/power user ability to use, which I have little of either.

Peace & Luv, Liz

If they're DOS, they'll work. If they're Windows, there's a good chance they'll work(I either use VDMsound or WINE).

You can use a Trios, if you want to use 98 and Linux without much hassle(hardware that lets you use multiple hardrives, without them being linked). The company's out of business now, but a Trios is still something to consider.

Linux used to require programming skill, and later "Power User" skill. Now it's almost as easy to use as Windows. It's easier than Windows, once you get used to it. Other than the shock of the differences(compared to Windows), there isn't much to worry about. I even know a 9 year old that uses Linux.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 09:33:33 PM
I even know a 9 year old that uses Linux.

But this is Jeysie we're talking about.   ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 09:42:11 PM
You can use a Trios, if you want to use 98 and Linux without much hassle(hardware that lets you use multiple hardrives, without them being linked). The company's out of business now, but a Trios is still something to consider.

Heh, nah, I'm not going to bother trying to figure out how to hook up two hard drives. :P

I might keep this old computer anyway, for webpage stuff... I can always throw my games on it too, worse comes to worse. :)

Linux used to require programming skill, and later "Power User" skill. Now it's almost as easy to use as Windows. It's easier than Windows, once you get used to it. Other than the shock of the differences(compared to Windows), there isn't much to worry about. I even know a 9 year old that uses Linux.

Well. :) Thanks! That's good to keep in mind, once I get my new computer... which'll be like, a decade from now or something, at the rate I'm going. :P

I even know a 9 year old that uses Linux.
But this is Jeysie we're talking about.   ;D

Gee, what did I do to piss you off? :(

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 09:51:34 PM
I even know a 9 year old that uses Linux.
But this is Jeysie we're talking about.   ;D

Gee, what did I do to piss you off? :(

Peace & Luv, Liz

Did you miss me say,
Quote
*Jeysie just painted a few red concentric circles on her back.*

I'll be good...  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 09:52:14 PM
If you plan on playing any new games, I'd recommend putting Linux on the old one. Older games are more likely to work in Linux, than new ones, well, until they become old games.

If you want a stable PC, Linux is a great choice. I use Linux instead of other non-Microsoft OSs, because it has more support(compatibility, tools, better interface, etc).

I mainly use XP for games, but I think Doom3 would kill my Windows hardrive(6GB).  :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 09:58:20 PM
Doom 2 took up about 2-3GB on my HDD...  :-[
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 09:59:15 PM
Doom 2 took up about 2-3GB on my HDD...  :-[

Updated version, or mods?  ???

or did you just misspell Doom3?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 10:00:35 PM
I can't put Linux on this old one... it's a Compaq. (may they burn in Hell) Or rather, I could, if I wanted to figure out what stupid drivers and programs are needed and which aren't, track down seperately installable driver sets on the manufacturer websites (assuming the manufacturers still exist at this point), and figure out how to put it together without massive resource conflicts (because Compaqs are spawns *from* Hell).

I really wish I'd known a computer guru or three back when moving from Commodore to Windows so I could have known to get something decent. :P

Grundy: You... good? Hah, I don't buy it. Besides, let us not forget that XP is the OS with the flashy colors and the default hand-holding. ;)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 10:01:01 PM
LOL! doom 2! hahaha
My fingers are bit off today!

3 ofcourse....  ;)

Quote
Grundy: You... good? Hah, I don't buy it. Besides, let us not forget that XP is the OS with the flashy colors and the default hand-holding.

Ok, mommy... If I stop holding xp's hand will you hold mine instead?  :lovegoggles:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 10:06:57 PM
Jeysie, I'll give it a 50/50 chance of working like it should(I'd use a LinuxLive disc to decide if it would work or not).

LOL! doom 2! hahaha
My fingers are bit off today!

3 ofcourse....  ;)

I doubted that you could find enough files, for Doom2 to take up that much space(without crashing).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 10:09:19 PM
Ok, mommy... If I stop holding xp's hand will you hold mine instead?  :lovegoggles:

You're a nut, Grundy. No wonder Laura likes you. :D

Louisiana: That might be a thought for down the road. Is there a place to have a CD sent to me without too much cost?

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 10:11:54 PM
You can download linux for Free.   ;)

( i'm sure you knew that... but having cd's sent out normally costs money. )
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 10:15:14 PM
Yeah, I know. :) Unfortunately,as you might have guessed, I'd die of old age before I managed to download one of the distros, unless they're less than 100-200MB or something.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 10:19:45 PM
Ok, mommy... If I stop holding xp's hand will you hold mine instead?  :lovegoggles:

You're a nut, Grundy. No wonder Laura likes you. :D

Louisiana: That might be a thought for down the road. Is there a place to have a CD sent to me without too much cost?

Peace & Luv, Liz

Mandrake Movel (http://www.roseindia.net/linux/mandrakemove.shtm)

It's the first thing I've found. I got mine from a store(living near Dallas, has it's advantages).

Quote
unless they're less than 100-200MB or something.

I could find you a simple Linux Live ISO, to burn to a CD(under 50meg, if you need it that small).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 17, 2004, 10:22:19 PM
unless they're less than 100-200MB or something.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Fedora was 2.2GB  I just downloaded that the other day.
 ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 17, 2004, 10:28:28 PM
I could find you a simple Linux Live ISO, to burn to a CD(under 50meg, if you need it that small).

Nah, as long as I know they do come that small, I can find it on my own when I get a chance to fool with that sort of stuff.

Fedora was 2.2GB  I just downloaded that the other day. ;P

Yeah, that's about what I figured.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 17, 2004, 10:32:04 PM
I could find you a simple Linux Live ISO, to burn to a CD(under 50meg, if you need it that small).

Nah, as long as I know they do come that small, I can find it on my own when I get a chance to fool with that sort of stuff.

Fedora was 2.2GB  I just downloaded that the other day. ;P

Yeah, that's about what I figured.

Peace & Luv, Liz

They come from under 10meg(I'm not sure how small they get), to over 3gig.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 18, 2004, 12:48:31 AM
Thanks, Liz.  Grundy, I do not think you are too familiar with 98SE.  I dual-boot now with 98SE and XP Pro. and I still like 98SE better.  98SE has the ability to exit to true MS-DOS mode and run old games well.  XP lacks some of this compatibility and does not have true DOS.  It just has a command prompt (info. courtesy of Gary Terhune -- MVP 9x)  LN, I still have to try Linux but I am pretty pleased with FireFox as compared to Internet Explorer.   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 18, 2004, 01:00:05 AM
Have you tried any of the extensions? I think some of Firefox's extensions are extremely useful(or at least fun).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on August 18, 2004, 01:14:13 AM
Grundy, I do not think you are too familiar with 98SE.  

I'm actually Aries Certified, ( Software and Hardware techie... ). If anything, I know more about the histroy and workings of the MS OS's than anyone else here.  ;P

At the time, 98SE was the best option, ME wasn't much of an improvement, and I stuck with 98SE until I started using 2000Pro. Since I've made thatmove, and the resulting lack of Crashes, BSOD's etc etc... It's easy to see that MS has actually done something right since 2000. XP Pro is the best OS from MS i've ever used. The fact that it got rid of the DOS underlyings meant that it could be run at a much more stable level. DOS IS the problem with 98, not it's pro. ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 18, 2004, 01:53:11 AM
I like 2000, and I think XP was neccesery. NTFS was a major improvement, and incompatabilitys were unavoidable.

I agree with Dew7 about the NT/2000/XP line having more security holes than 9x. I think 2000/XP deals with them  better though(restore points, for an example).

Merging the two lines, was both a good idea, and a bad idea. I still prefer 98SE, even though I don't have it on my PC anymore. I couldn't hold on to 98 forever, so I decided now was as good a time as any to switch. Like I said before, I mainly use Windows for games, and the 9x line is starting to lose support from game companys. Eventually, all software/hardware in computers will become obselete, and we have to adapt to the new situation(software/hardware).
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on August 18, 2004, 04:37:47 AM
XP crashes on my computer :(, so i cant even try to run Doom3, so im getting my computer upgraded ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on August 18, 2004, 07:38:42 AM
I think merging the two lines was a bad idea, personally. Win2K is/was great for *business* purposes, but I wouldn't find it good for strictly personal use.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 18, 2004, 09:17:01 AM
Win98 still dominates in games, albeit not the kinds of games most people here play. ;P  For some reason Win2k/XP+ still can't outperform 98 in terms of 3D.

As for everything else, I would say Win2k beats them.  It is a bit more stable than XP (and requires less RAM) and far more stable than Win9x.  

But, security is a hassle with it.  It's a little TOO secure.  It has problems allowing other computers on my home network connect to it (they run WinXP Pro) and it has nothing to do with firewall settings, it has to do with user & file permissions.

XP was basically just built from Win2k with more fixes and a more attractive UI.  The visuals in XP could slow down your computer if you don't have enough RAM or VRAM.  So if you're XP is crashing, it's most likely because you have <256 MB or a really outdated video card.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 18, 2004, 09:20:30 AM
As for Linux, the last time I installed it was 5+ years ago.  I tried RedHad and Corel's version (whatever it was called).  Both seemed like you had to have a background in it to even do simple things like set up devices.  Maybe things have changed now, but I don't really have the time these days to learn a completely new O/S.  :P  

So if they've made the O/S more intuitive then I'd try it, if not I'm sticking with 2k & XP.  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 18, 2004, 02:52:16 PM
LN, I have not tried any Firefox extensions.  Do you suggest any that I should try.
98SE does seem to run 3D games better and imo runs old games better.  So far all the newer games that I have seen require 98SE as a minimum.  I have not come across a game that requires XP.  So I plan on sticking with a dual-boot platform of XP Pro. and 98SE.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 18, 2004, 03:04:07 PM
Yonkey, Linux is MUCH easier to use than it used to be. Didn't you see what I said about the 9-year-old?

Dew7, here's a link.

Texturizer (http://texturizer.net/firefox/extensions/)

I HIGHLY recemend you download the uninstaller extension, so you can uninstall the extensions you don't like. XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 19, 2004, 03:07:28 PM
Okay, I will download the uninstaller and try out the Firefox extensions sometime.  Thanks, LN.  :>
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 19, 2004, 03:51:08 PM
No problem, glad to help.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 20, 2004, 11:53:20 PM
I still am surprised that more people have not backed more open-source software.  LN, do you think it is because of a lack of compatibility as the main reason, are people stuck in using Windows because of habbit or is there some other reason?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 21, 2004, 12:07:15 AM
DOS was one of the first OSs meant for PCs(home computers). Many people used it, and switched to Windows after it was released. Now Windows is what comes with people's computer when they buy it, and all the software in stores is for Windows. Why would they want the trouble of switching OSs?

As for why open-source software isn't backed more, I  think it's simple...

greed.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 22, 2004, 01:43:30 AM
Well I must say that is unfortunate about open-source software not being supported because of greed. :sneaky:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 22, 2004, 03:14:47 PM
I somehow got a keylogger that SpySweeper found and is now thankfully gone.  This just goes to show how unsecure computers are in this day and age.   :furious:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 26, 2004, 06:42:09 PM
The keyboard every Windows user needs.



(http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsw/images/ms-keyboard.jpg)



*hides from Windows users, including himself*
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 26, 2004, 08:30:00 PM
Intel is inside the keyboard?  ???

XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on August 27, 2004, 12:25:41 AM
LOL  

ctrl alt delete

This was used way back on my first computer which was an IBM PCjr.  Ahh --- the memories of being a young lad.  ;>  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 03, 2004, 12:56:25 PM
Windows History (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/WinHistoryIntro.mspx)

It's from Microsoft, so it's extremely accurate, and biased. XD
Title: Re:Unix-based, Mac and/or/versus Windows OS
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 03, 2004, 12:59:06 PM
Unix for Windows(U/WIN) (http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/uwin/)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jafar on September 04, 2004, 12:25:44 AM
Win98 will never die! ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 08:20:48 AM
My favourite Windows is 3.11 because it was the first i used :D

Also if i have to use XP its gonna be a dual boot with 98se :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 08:36:04 AM
My favorite Microsoft OS, is DOS. XD

As for which version of it, I'm not sure(my memory's failing). :(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 08:47:57 AM
Has anyone ever used or seen Windows 1.0 ???

From the looks of it, it seems like DOS in colour but im not entirely sure because i havent actually used it before :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 08:49:56 AM
DOS had color. Have you never seen the pretty green screens? XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 09:05:46 AM
yeah but this had multiple colours on one screen :D, it also looked more like a window than a full screen though ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 09:10:52 AM
yeah but this had multiple colours on one screen :D, it also looked more like a window than a full screen though ;)

Oh, you mean one of those pretty milti-colored screens(left green, middle red, right blue, or something like that)! XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 09:19:23 AM
Yeah :D, ill go find a screenshot for you ;), also there is no command line as far as i remember :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 09:25:12 AM
I was joking about the screen, though I've never seen Windows 1.0.  :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 09:26:28 AM
Ok i found a site with Screenshots from all windows versions except for 1.0 :-\, but i does have 1.01 which is different from 1.0 and it is nothing like Dos this one ;)

Windows Screenshots (http://www.infosatellite.com/news/2001/10/a251001windowshistory_screenshots.html#win101)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 09:28:50 AM
You do know that early versions of Windows, were just MSdos with visuals/windows, right?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 09:38:23 AM
Yeah i know ;D, but i thought the layout was more DOS-ish looking than that :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 09:50:30 AM
(http://www.nanoblogg.de/pics/windows_1.0.gif)

The site said this is Windows 1.0
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 09:57:06 AM
Ok, well buggered if i know what i was on about :-\, lol
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 04, 2004, 09:59:25 AM
The site might be wrong...  :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 04, 2004, 10:01:05 AM
nah im probably wrong :-\, i have such a crap memory that i probably made it up :suffer:, lol
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 05, 2004, 08:21:55 PM
The history of Windows was interesting.  Thanks for the link, LN.  I guess only time will tell how much longer 98SE holds up.  
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on September 06, 2004, 02:45:10 AM
The Tech support company I work for is officially dropping ALL support for 98 at the start of next year...  so I'd say it only have a few months left!   :suffer:

Normally when all the dubasses who still use it call up and ask for help... when they get told it's not supported they will think... "hmmmm, maybe I should upgrade."  So I would say about 90% of the W98 users we support will switch to something newer.   8)

RIP 98/ME
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 06, 2004, 09:09:44 AM
I'm guessing 98SE is going to become like OS/2(I think that's the right name) soon. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 06, 2004, 10:51:18 AM
Grundy: Of course your company is making people switch... that way once everyone is using XP they'll make even more $$$ by needing to field twice as many tech calls! :D

Now where's my flak jacket?

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 06, 2004, 01:28:16 PM
LOL

When everyone is finally somewhat comfortable with XP then the calls to upgrade to Longhorn will be heard.

 :X
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on September 06, 2004, 04:22:34 PM
Grundy: Of course your company is making people switch... that way once everyone is using XP they'll make even more $$$ by needing to field twice as many tech calls! :D

Now where's my flak jacket?

Peace & Luv, Liz


about 70% of our customers call with 98 problems.  ;P
XP is a LOT easier to troubleshoot and fix aswell. I think everyone should just go with a MAC! lol... they never bloody break!
We get like 1 call a month for mac, and this is while taking 10,000 calls a day. And normally if the mac isn't working, it because someone flogged off a hell expensive mac to some 80 year old women who 'wants to get emails'.... lol  ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 06, 2004, 04:25:21 PM
Latest Macs=based on FreeBSD(I think I have the right OS)

A good reason for them to be stable. :)

P.S. For those that don't know what FreeBSD is... it's similar to Linux(open-source OS), and most FreeBSD users, claim it's superior(according to my past experience). It doesn't have as much support though, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 06, 2004, 04:34:03 PM
Grundy "about 70% of our customers call with 98 problems. "

I think this shows that 98SE is alive and well.   ;)

I wonder if dual-boot is the future of computing.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 06, 2004, 04:37:47 PM
Grundy: They must make Macs a lot better in Australia, because the Macs my former graphic design bosses had would quite literally break about 10 times a day. My experiences of dealing with those POSes has scared me off Macs forever.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 06, 2004, 04:42:04 PM
Past Macs were not based on FreeBSD. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 07, 2004, 12:33:43 AM
Well Microsoft date of expiration for 98, 98SE and ME is June 30, 2006  
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 07, 2004, 04:44:59 AM
Grundy "about 70% of our customers call with 98 problems. "

I think this shows that 98SE is alive and well.   ;)

I wonder if dual-boot is the future of computing.
It shows that 98se is alive and well and that Bill Gates is trying to lower its use by date >:( :'(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on September 07, 2004, 05:35:26 AM
Actually! the majority of our users are on XP.  :P
But the majority of problems happen with the 98 users! LOL!  :P

 8)

So... 90% of problems come from 30% of the users.   ::)

And yeah, Mac OS 8.6-9.2 is considered 'Classic' in our job... where as 10.0 - 10.3 is OSX, good quality, rock-solid!    ;D  And it's based on UNIX, not just FreeBSD... you can actually boot into a UNIX command prompt if you're a really techie user on OSX!  8)

Jeysie, you were probably using the 'Classic' OS if it was having problems all the time.
Try using OSX and you'll be wondering where Microsoft went so wrong.   ;)

Check out the new G5's for example... omfg SEXY AS!  :lovegoggles:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 07, 2004, 06:04:53 AM
Actually! the majority of our users are on XP.  :P
But the majority of problems happen with the 98 users! LOL!  :P

Then Win98 is pretty weird there in Australia. I've never had any tech-support-worthy problems with 98, but XP gave me a lot of headaches.

Jeysie, you were probably using the 'Classic' OS if it was having problems all the time.
Try using OSX and you'll be wondering where Microsoft went so wrong.   ;)

Most of them were classics, but we had one that was OSX, and while it didn't break as often (it still broke) it was still awkward to use. Apple needs to steal the Windows taskbar and Start button. Oh, and learn the crazy concept of having a right mouse button.

Not to mention I've already had experience with a computer I didn't put together myself... no thanks. Next computer I get is a custom-built one.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on September 07, 2004, 06:13:37 AM
I just can't win with you can I Jeysie?   ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 07, 2004, 06:16:02 AM
As long as you laud Macs or WinXP, nope. :D

Linux I will no longer comment on, though. ;-D

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 07, 2004, 06:40:21 AM
In SA no one calls up for support cos we all fix our own computers :D

We arent the stupid ones with XP (Home) ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 07, 2004, 07:54:19 AM
Realized my post didn't come out worded quite the way I meant. Let's try it again:

As long as you laud Macs or WinXP in order to diss Win98, nope. :D

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on September 07, 2004, 09:02:18 AM
So... 90% of problems come from 30% of the users.   ::)

No wonder you get no calls from Mac users, according to that math, 0% of your customers use it. ;P

Seriously, what percentage of your users have a Mac? Or a G5?  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 07, 2004, 09:43:37 AM
Actually! the majority of our users are on XP.  :P
But the majority of problems happen with the 98 users! LOL!  :P

 8)

So... 90% of problems come from 30% of the users.   ::)

And yeah, Mac OS 8.6-9.2 is considered 'Classic' in our job... where as 10.0 - 10.3 is OSX, good quality, rock-solid!    ;D  And it's based on UNIX, not just FreeBSD... you can actually boot into a UNIX command prompt if you're a really techie user on OSX!  8)

Jeysie, you were probably using the 'Classic' OS if it was having problems all the time.
Try using OSX and you'll be wondering where Microsoft went so wrong.   ;)

Check out the new G5's for example... omfg SEXY AS!  :lovegoggles:

It's based on Unix also, or just Unix? :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 07, 2004, 06:03:02 PM
Well I do not think that XP has the same ability to run as many games as 98SE.  For one thing, XP uses command.com prompt and does not have true MS-DOS like 98SE has.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 12, 2004, 06:09:51 PM
So has anyone tried XP SP2 or WMP 10 and what do they think of these additions?
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 12, 2004, 06:44:57 PM
SP2?

Security Patch 2? :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 12, 2004, 06:50:31 PM
Windows Media Player 10

XP Service Pack 2   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 12, 2004, 06:59:56 PM
I have Service Pack2, but I haven't installed it yet.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on September 12, 2004, 07:10:20 PM
I installed Service Pack 2 on my laptop, and there's not really any difference.  IE now has its own popup-blocker and you can customize what crap gets auto-installed into IE's toolbars too.  There's a firewall, but I still use ZoneAlarm's instead.  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 12, 2004, 07:20:04 PM
ZoneAlarm does have a nice firewall.   :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 17, 2004, 10:45:56 PM
Random Longhorn Info
The desktop, windows, etc, will be vector based(they're bitmap based, at the moment).

Vector based=perty :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 18, 2004, 12:14:24 AM
I think XP graphics are trying to turn computers into toys.  98SE graphics suited my purposes fine.  I use the Classic mode in XP of my dual-boot 98SE and XP Pro. machine and so it has less crappiness in my opinion.   8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 18, 2004, 12:17:14 AM
I think the 3D interface can either be a toy, or a tool, depending on how they use it. It could be a good thing, or a bad thing(I don't much care, either way).

Vector graphics on the other hand, I KNOW is a good thing. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 18, 2004, 12:53:36 AM
Okay, I guess we will see when it is released.   :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Jeysie on September 18, 2004, 08:25:45 AM
I don't care about purtiness. However...

(racks brain) Isn't one of the reasons that Flash files are smaller and process quickly due to the fact that Flash is vector-based? If vector-based graphics would help reduce necessary space and system resources, that would be a nice thing to see (pardon the pun).

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 18, 2004, 09:37:01 AM
Good things about it, in Windows.

It scales FAR better. I use a feature in my video settings, which could take great advantage of this. It(bitmaped graphics in Windows) also occasionally becomes annoying, from ordinary use(for me anyways).

Like you said, it uses fewer resources/instructions/etc.

Also, it's perty. :D

If anyone else can think of advantages of it, please post.

P.S. I could be wrong, but I think what I've said is accurate

*waits for 2d/3d artist to correct him*
Title: Which version of Windows is best?
Post by: GravityMX on September 18, 2004, 10:35:31 PM
Yeah :D, because my friend and I really want to bag XP and let people know how bad it is compared to the older ones ;D

XP aint bad, it just needs a powerful computer with atleast 512mb RAM. The GUI far out weights the security issues.  8). Btw im not the one having to reformat my computer every week  :P.
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: dew7 on September 18, 2004, 11:53:46 PM
Can't stand cheesy XP graphics --- so UGLY   :P
Title: Which Windows is better
Post by: dew7 on September 18, 2004, 11:55:41 PM
Why not dual-boot with 98SE and XP.
Title: Which Windows is better
Post by: GravityMX on September 19, 2004, 12:51:09 AM
Why not dual-boot with 98SE and XP.

lol, dual boot. I wouldnt put 98 on my computer, even if microsoft paid me too.  >:(

Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: racx_00 on September 19, 2004, 12:53:34 AM
XP aint bad, it just needs a powerful computer with atleast 512mb RAM. The GUI far out weights the security issues.  8). Btw im not the one having to reformat my computer every week  :P.
The reason i hate XP stretches far beyond that Josh >:(, and XP is supposed to run on my computer so i believe that the reason i cant get it to run is because of driver issues :-\, i dont want XP anyway :P

BTW i dont format every week :P, i have only formatted twice this year :P
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: dew7 on September 19, 2004, 02:05:36 AM
BTW, what os do you run, racx?
Title: Which Windows is better
Post by: dew7 on September 19, 2004, 02:08:10 AM
Well 98SE runs DOS games, has true MS-DOS not just a command.com and I like that!   :P
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: racx_00 on September 19, 2004, 03:00:15 AM
I run 98se only way to go :P
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: Jeysie on September 19, 2004, 06:52:42 AM
(coughs in surprise)

Racx, your friend *likes* the XP GUI? And he claims to be sane? :suffer:

I have Win98, and only reformat once a year... and that's only because I'm a neat freak who likes to keep things cleaned out and tidy.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Which Windows is better
Post by: Jeysie on September 19, 2004, 06:53:03 AM
lol, dual boot. I wouldnt put 98 on my computer, even if microsoft paid me too.  >:(

Your loss. 8)

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: Shadowfax on September 19, 2004, 07:07:32 AM
Sorry for butting in everyone (I am sure thats why no-one except Kimmie seems to talk to me) but I have a copy of Windows XP proffesional on my computer and I haven't run into any problems with it so far (I can ever run KQ6 on it without needing a DOS emulator or the special Compatability mode). I find that it starts up an awful lot quicker than my former WIN 98. I have heard many horror stories abut Windows XP and I do agree with the general consensus that it was rushed out too early but I have had no problems with it (Probably because I have put the fear of God into my computer by threatening it constantly with my big "belly buster" masonry drill if it dares to go wrong ;D)
Still, each to their own.
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: Jeysie on September 19, 2004, 07:11:01 AM
Shadow: You're just lucky. ;)

I have a friend who can also run all the old games in XP. However, no one else seems to be able to do it, and he has yet to post a guide on how he does it. ::)

At any rate, if people want to like XP, it's their choice. I just get snippy when people diss 98.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: Shadowfax on September 19, 2004, 07:17:22 AM
Don't worry Jeysie, I have used every Windows Varient down to the old 3.11 and have used even older systems (the earliest machine I ever used dated back to 1987 and that was an old BBC computer system!) I have had very few problems with any of these  (once again it is either luck or the "belly buster!") and have no need to diss them. Besides, it is a bit pointless taking the michael out of old operating systems, they can only use the latest technology of the time and so they will be inferior in certain aspects.
I am sure in a few months time we will be laughing are backsides off at how flawed and slow Windows XP is (oh wait...people are already laughing!  ;))
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: racx_00 on September 19, 2004, 07:32:03 AM
Racx, your friend *likes* the XP GUI? And he claims to be sane? :suffer:
Yeah thats why i laughed when he said hes sane :-\ :D
Title: Which Windows is better
Post by: racx_00 on September 19, 2004, 07:36:43 AM
Your loss. 8)

Peace & Luv, Liz
I agree 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on September 19, 2004, 05:38:29 PM
Vectors are great to work with and easily editable... but they lack the freedom of colour and effects that bitmaps can acheive...   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 19, 2004, 05:48:34 PM
Considering they're making it 3D(the GUI), I think vector graphics are best. :)
Title: Re:Ebay
Post by: dew7 on September 19, 2004, 07:16:00 PM
98SE Rules!

XP is okay --- however it does handle ram better
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: GravityMX on September 20, 2004, 04:33:59 AM
hehe  :P I wonder who will be laughing when Microsoft discontinues critical updates to win98 at the end of this year  :o.

*Feels sympathy for thy insane*  :-*
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on September 20, 2004, 04:42:24 AM
You can still dual boot :P

And i dont care if Microsoft support 98 or not :P
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: GravityMX on September 20, 2004, 05:00:28 AM
Is dual booting Linux/XP as easy as dualboot 98/XP?  ???
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: racx_00 on September 20, 2004, 05:36:36 AM
AFAIK yes it is done the same way ;D, but easy :suffer:
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 20, 2004, 08:02:16 AM
WHAT!? :o

NO! IT ISN'T!

NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, INSTALL XP AFTER INSTALLING LINUX, UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

If you install Linux second, then it works fine. :P

P.S. XP will delete GRUB or LILO(the programs I use to load multiple OSs), or any similar program. Unless you want a lot of hassle, let XP's boot loader(right name?) have control of it.
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: racx_00 on September 20, 2004, 08:17:04 AM
do you have that problem if you partition ???
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 20, 2004, 08:36:20 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by that. :-\

Windows can't partition Linux, if that's what you mean.

I've never heard of anyone trying, or wanting, to use Fat32 or NTFS as their file system(in Linux). :P
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: racx_00 on September 20, 2004, 08:42:53 AM
I meant if you had Windows XP on one drive and Linux on another ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 20, 2004, 03:21:30 PM
BTW, 98, 98SE and ME will continue to have critical updates until 30 June 2006 because these operating systems are still really popular in other countries.  Support continues for 98SE beyond the end of the year much to Gravity MX's sorrow.

 :suffer:  :suffer:  :suffer:  :suffer:  :suffer:  :suffer:
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 20, 2004, 03:26:10 PM
I meant if you had Windows XP on one drive and Linux on another ;D

Linux and XP on the same hardrive, will have the problem I mentioned.

Linux and XP on different hardrives, will not have the problem I mentioned.

Exception=Live Distros
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: racx_00 on September 21, 2004, 01:30:31 AM
Yeah i was meaning on different drives ;D, i would never try to put two OS on one drive :-\
Title: Dual Booting
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 21, 2004, 07:07:36 AM
Hmm.

Now WHO is the sane one here? :P

Until I tried installing XP on the same hardrive as Linux, never had a problem.

Disc Druid=FUN :D

P.S. installing OSs with different flie systems on the same hardrive. isn't the most stable way of doing things either. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 25, 2004, 03:20:18 PM
98SE on one drive
XP Pro. on another drive in my system and so far it is okay.   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Shadowfax on September 26, 2004, 02:11:33 PM
Hmm, I think I will stick with one operating system, one is more than enough for me and my malfunctioning computer!

BTW, Use Windows XP Professional (actually works quite well, as I said in another thread I can run all my DOS games on it, some of which wouldn't run on Windows ME  which has a DOS base ???)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 26, 2004, 02:17:50 PM
I consider ME the most flawed of all the main Windows releases. :P

I find it hard to explain why, but if you've ever tried it, you'd know why. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Shadowfax on September 26, 2004, 02:22:11 PM
Well it was my main operating system for over two years so I know its in's and out's quite well. My main complaint with it was the monumental slowness it took to start up. Dear Mike in wine dark heaven those startups; Stonehenge could have been built in the time it took for that damn thing to realise I actually wanted it to load up!

(basically it resulted in me shouting at my computer and threatening it with the "belly buster" masonry drill, yes, very sad I know...but I swear to mike that sometimes it did work!)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 26, 2004, 02:24:16 PM
Yeah, it did take forever to load.

Did you have stability problems with it? Because it crashed a lot, when I was using it. :S
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Shadowfax on September 26, 2004, 03:10:06 PM
Well I will admit it was a rather unstable system in the last months of it's existence on my computer. Mind you I think that was partially due to having millions of extraneous files that were adding "noise" to the systems core processes.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 26, 2004, 06:14:12 PM
ME is considered to be one of MS worst operating systems.  98SE works nicely for me and I also use XP Professional but I still like 98SE better for games because they seem to run better.  (Fewer dropped frames + sharper graphics at least for me)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 26, 2004, 06:19:09 PM
Any chance that has something to do with your PC? ???

Most people say you should have at least 512meg of memory, to use it.

Myself, I squeeze by on 256meg. :P

P.S. It could also be, that XP got a virus. I doubt that happend though, considering how much effort you put, into getting rid of them. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 26, 2004, 06:24:42 PM
Perhaps I need to configure XP better.  I know how 98SE runs a lot better and yes I have 512 mb's of memory.   :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 26, 2004, 06:38:24 PM
Except for hearing that there are some pieces of hardware(that weren't made with XP's architecture in mind), that can make XP run less effectively, compared to Win98, I have NO idea why it would do that. :-\

Well that, and XP uses more of your PC's resources. XD
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 26, 2004, 06:41:04 PM
I will let you know if I am able to figure it out.  :>
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 27, 2004, 01:49:17 AM
Here is the website for 98, 98SE and ME expiration date of June 30, 2006

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[LN];LifeAn1

Neil can you fix this please so the whole link is active --
Thanks  :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Yonkey on September 27, 2004, 09:38:09 AM
Neil can you fix this please so the whole link is active --
Thanks  :D
Because of the square brackets in the URL, I can't.  If you want to visit the link, just copy and paste it.  ;D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 27, 2004, 10:43:03 AM
Thanks for the link, but Microsoft's support doesn't matter much to me. If I re-install 98SE, it will be for older apps. 8)

P.S. What was the [LN] about? ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 27, 2004, 02:28:12 PM
It is the website that shows 98, 98SE and ME will expire on June 30, 2006 -- it just happens to have your initials in it ---  :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 27, 2004, 03:05:58 PM
XD

Well I'll stick with XP anyways. If for no other reason, than that it has NTFS. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 27, 2004, 03:09:53 PM
Unfortunately, all Windows operating systems still have too many security problems.  I feel that open-source products will continue to grow but I doubt they will be a big threat to the Microsoft monopoly at least not in the near future.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 28, 2004, 12:37:00 AM
Just found a game -- Wing Commander: Prophecy runs too quickly in XP Professional on my system but 98SE runs it well.   :P   :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 28, 2004, 12:39:20 AM
I like Wing Commander, fun game. I don't think I've ever played Prophecy though. :-\

Isn't it a DOS game? If so...

solution=DOSbox
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 28, 2004, 11:57:08 PM
It is actually a Windows game.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on September 29, 2004, 09:57:47 AM
I didn't think the series lasted that long. :-\

Back to VDMsound. :P

*wonders why Microsoft, didn't bundle WINE with XP* XD :P ::)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on September 29, 2004, 10:48:41 PM
*Really misses the Wing Commander series

*Wonders about these Window lite versions that are being released around the world
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Grundy on October 02, 2004, 09:30:13 PM
I played through most of the Wing Commander series... great games!   :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on October 11, 2004, 11:42:48 PM
Now Microsoft is focusing on its Media Center --- with all their problems with security in Windows I find it surprising that the competition has not given the public a great alternative that people will accept quickly   :o
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 12, 2004, 12:12:15 AM
I don't see any competition. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on October 12, 2004, 03:36:51 PM
Well how about Mozilla Firefox, Linux, Apple, etc.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 12, 2004, 07:55:00 PM
If we're talking about the Windows OS, there's not really any competition(as far as PCs go). :-\

Windows=so much support by companies, that it would be hard to compete with(in the mainstream)

Macintosh=hardware restrictions(so it can't become too mainstream)

Unix=too costly for most people

Linux=most people won't go thru the trouble of learning to use it(it's still not user-friendly enough, for the average user), and it lacks the support of Windows/Mac

freeBSD=due to OS-X, it might start becoming more mainstream(but it suffers from most Linux problems, and is unlikely to ever achieve mainstream)



Back on topic.....

I think Windows 2000 is the best. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on October 13, 2004, 06:51:22 PM
LN, I think Windows 2000 is the best.  

Too bad it is the only operating system that still has a critical flaw on the eeye.com website   :P

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/20040802-C.html
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 13, 2004, 07:20:48 PM
Like I've said before, if I want an OS with good security, I'll use something besides Windows. :P

As far as I'm concerned, Windows(all versions) cannot compete in that area.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on October 13, 2004, 08:45:54 PM
All right -- I'll agree with you on that point  ;)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: daventry on October 30, 2004, 10:32:23 AM
Um, can someone have Windows 98 and Windows XP on his Computer all together.

I love Windows 98 and i know it very well, but my Cousin is forcing me to get WinXP when there are still games and programs suited on Win98.

I have a 18.6gb hdd, i'm going to buy a 40gb hdd
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 30, 2004, 11:28:03 AM
Yes, XP supports dual-booting.

It might be difficult to setup(if the PC came with it already installed), but during installation, I think there's an option to turn dual-booting on(I don't remember the details).
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: daventry on October 30, 2004, 12:13:29 PM
??? Or what if i keep both HDD's, then i install the WinXP on the 40gb HDD and keep Win98 on the 18gb HDD.
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 30, 2004, 12:57:56 PM
It sounds like it would work, but I've never tried it. :-\

I either dual-boot from one hardrive, or use a Trios (http://www.hwextreme.com/reviews/misc/romtectrios/)

You can stiill buy them, but I think the company went out of business(no technical support). :(
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on October 31, 2004, 01:01:24 AM
daventry --- it will work

My system has 98SE on one 40 gigabyte hard drive and XP Professional on the other 80 gigabyte hard drive

Just make sure that 98 (or 98SE) is installed first and then install XP on the other hard drive --- really not too difficult  ;)

My 98SE has Fat32 file system while XP Pro. has NTFS so 98SE will not recognize XP Pro. but XP Pro. will recognize 98SE --- (btw make 98 C: and XP D: and I do not suggest copying any XP files to C: or you will be in a world of hurt because it will cause corruption and bad things to happen to 98 --- my system has been very stable because I have not broken these rules --- bye for now -- let me know if you have any more questions
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: daventry on October 31, 2004, 07:26:38 AM
Quote
daventry --- it will work

My system has 98SE on one 40 gigabyte hard drive and XP Professional on the other 80 gigabyte hard drive

Cool, then i'm gonna do it. ;D

Quote
Just make sure that 98 (or 98SE) is installed first and then install XP on the other hard drive --- really not too difficult

Win98SE is on my 18.6gb hdd for the last 7 years, so i'm gonna install WinXP on the 40gb hdd. :)

Quote
My 98SE has Fat32 file system while XP Pro has NTFS, so 98SE will not recognize XP Pro. but XP Pro will recognize 98SE

I have no idea what that means. ???

Quote
(btw make 98 C: and XP D

I think it will be F, because i have D: for my DVD and E: for my C Writer  :)

Quote
I do not suggest copying any XP files to C: or you will be in a world of hurt because it will cause corruption and bad things to happen to 98

If i download something for Winxp from the Internet in Win98, can i copy the file then to Winxp ???
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Shadowfax on October 31, 2004, 07:50:58 AM
Quote:
My 98SE has Fat32 file system while XP Pro has NTFS, so 98SE will not recognize XP Pro. but XP Pro will recognize 98SE
 

I have no idea what that means.

-----------------
Basically the file systems are incompatible from the "bottom up." XP will be able to "see" files created through 98SE but 98SE will lack the ability to "see" files created through XP. This is due to the evolution of the two systems; the older system is not advanced enough to "look forward," but the newer system certainly can "look back."
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: daventry on October 31, 2004, 08:24:14 AM
Oh, ok. :)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Shadowfax on October 31, 2004, 08:31:52 AM
Anytime!  8)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Yonkey on October 31, 2004, 10:23:43 AM
If you use a FAT32 filesystem for both Win98 and XP, they can both see eachother's files.  But FAT32 is not recommended for large hard drives (I believe 32GB is the maximum size it supports).
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on October 31, 2004, 11:33:27 AM
Even if it will work with your hardrive(I used FAT32 on a 40gb hardrive :-\ ), DON'T USE FAT32 IN XP!

FAT32 is better for compatibility.

NTFS is better for everything else. 8)

Since you'll be using FAT32 on 98(I hope), it doesn't make much sense to have XP using FAT32. Well, unless you're going to be moving files between them a lot. :-\

EDIT: Okay, I've found the problem. It's XP that limits FAT32 to 32GB(according to Microsoft).

 Size Limitations in NTFS and FAT File Systems (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_tdrn.asp)

Also, here's a work around(something that VERY few people will have a use for).

Partition the drive to what size you want up to 120GB (http://www.petri.co.il/install_windows_xp_on_large_fat32_partitions.htm)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: daventry on October 31, 2004, 12:19:53 PM
I think i''l just leave this fat stuff. ;)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: B'rrr on October 31, 2004, 12:40:01 PM
my xp partition is NTFS too, but I found out that Fat32 isn't that bad, cuz when my friends xp crashed I could start up in dosmode and still access their files and swap a system restore point so I could get xp working again  :)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on October 31, 2004, 05:23:02 PM
If i download something for Winxp from the Internet in Win98, can i copy the file then to Winxp from Daventry

I do not see a problem with this but I personally do not swap files between the two systems because the way I see it is that it is like having two computers on one computer   ;)

Fat32 --- 98SE
NTFS ---- XP

BTW, Yonkey --- LN is right ---- 98SE using Fat32 is limited to 137 gb hard drive but this limitation can be overcome with a controller card
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Yonkey on October 31, 2004, 09:48:27 PM
BTW, Yonkey --- LN is right ---- 98SE using Fat32 is limited to 137 gb hard drive but this limitation can be overcome with a controller card
It may be possible to override the limit, but FAT32 degrades in performance the larger the hard drive.
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Grundy on November 01, 2004, 04:33:04 AM
FAT32 cant go higher than 32... where'd you get that 137 number from?  was that acheived by somehow creating virtual partitions or something?  ???




EDIT : TYPO
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 01, 2004, 10:21:12 AM
Those links might explain it(32gb=XP limitation).

If I'm wrong(misunderstood the Microsoft website), I KNOW I got a 40gb hardrive working in Win98(unfourtunatly, I'm not sure if I had multiple partitions. :-\ )
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on November 01, 2004, 01:29:43 PM
LN, you are not wrong -- the other people are not sure what they are talking about.  

My 98SE hard drive has 40 gigabytes on one partition.   ::)  

The limitations of Fat32 of 32 gb are on the NT source code (XP, 2000. NT) and not the 9x source code (98, 98SE, ME)

People the 32 refers to 32 kb not 32 gigabytes  :P

98SE supports up to 137 gigabytes except in the case of having a controller card when you can have more space

"The maximum possible number of clusters on a volume using the FAT32 file system is 268,435,445. With a maximum of 32 KB per cluster with space for the file allocation table (FAT), this equates to a maximum disk size of approximately 8 terabytes (TB)".

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184006/EN-US/

 8) :P
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 01, 2004, 01:50:59 PM
That's good, because if the limit was 32GB, I must have been using NTFS in 98. XD :P

I just remembered, that my Linux hardrive(60GB) was using 98SE a few months ago(when I switched to XP, I decided to use it for Linux). 8)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on November 01, 2004, 01:53:47 PM
 :D  Sounds good to me, LN

Waits reply from everyone else ---  :P
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Yonkey on November 02, 2004, 11:55:02 AM
Hmm, the information I found about FAT32 not being able to support larger than 32GB had to do with Win2k/XP.  Every site I've seen recommends NTFS for those two.  But I know from experience, I had a 20GB FAT32 hard disk and it would take literally a day to defragment. :S Once I converted to NTFS, it took an hour at most. XD

So, you can use a huge HD for Win98, but it'll be extremely slow, and while it's possible to use FAT32 for XP, it's highly recommended that you use NTFS instead.  :)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Grundy on November 02, 2004, 03:48:14 PM
I must have been reading 2k/xp info aswell... since I thought FAT32 was limitied to 32gb....    

Anyway, agree with Neil, have fun using large FAT32 drives.... I never had more than 16GB on a FAT32, and even that sucked ass to defrag.  ;)

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on November 16, 2004, 11:11:19 AM
Here we go again with a new security vulnerability that hits Windows --- again 98SE not affected  8)

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/index.html

http://eeye.com/html/research/upcoming/20041115.html

 >:( Too bad Microsoft cannot seem to get it right when it comes to security -- yet another plug for open source
aka Linux  :suffer:
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 16, 2004, 02:14:40 PM
I WANNA POST LINUX LINKS!! !! !! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

*looks at threads topic*

Since XP is affected, I guess I better look at them.

Dew7, thanks for the info. 8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on November 16, 2004, 08:06:55 PM
You're welcome, LN.  I do not mind if you post a few Linux links in this thread as long as the main topic centers on Windows.   :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on November 17, 2004, 05:44:35 AM
Has anyone heard that blonde joke where she goes to buy curtains for her computer ???

And yes it is related to Windows :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 17, 2004, 11:02:00 AM
Has anyone heard about those cars that have Windows/PCs connected to many of the car's functions(though Microsoft claims it won't be connected to things like the brakes)?

*thinks he'd rather not have a car crash on it's own* :-X
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on November 17, 2004, 03:39:45 PM
The horror of having everything connected by Microsoft Windows.   :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 17, 2004, 03:46:50 PM
They're starting to do it to home appliances too. :S
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on November 17, 2004, 03:49:01 PM
Unfortunate --- also have heard that Microsoft PDA's have passed Palm PDA's in sales   :-\
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on November 26, 2004, 12:11:29 AM
Since this thread's been quiet for awhile, I decided to post a few links about what people think of a few OSs. :-\

Microsoft_LinuxComparison (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts/default.mspx)

LinuxVersusWindows (http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Linux.vs.Windows.html)(closest thing I could find to "neutral")

FreeBSD_comparison (http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on December 02, 2004, 01:28:24 PM
FYI:  Critical Update for Windows 98 Second Edition -- just go to Windows Update   ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on December 05, 2004, 11:34:57 PM
Eventually Microsoft will make every electrical thing there is... :o

Just imagine the horror when everything fails at once. ;P I guess it'll be like "The Day The Earth Stood Still". XD
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on December 06, 2004, 09:43:28 AM
Win98SE has an update?? :o
I thought they were never going to touch it again....
Unless you mean IE. ;)
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on December 06, 2004, 12:09:02 PM
I think he's talking about a security update...

they're supposed to be updating the security for a little while longer. :-\
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on December 06, 2004, 12:34:22 PM
All I saw was an IE update. ;P
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on December 06, 2004, 12:43:21 PM
You're using Win98?

That seems to be the prefered OS on the forums. :P

Along with XP being the least liked. ;P

I don't see how people can complain about XP... with ME still being sold. :-X
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on December 06, 2004, 12:46:02 PM
XP is alright, I use it on my new computer mostly because it takes advantage of a few features that my old computer lacks. The main thing I don't like about WinXP is the need to relicense it every time you change hardware. ;P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: LondonBroiler on December 06, 2004, 03:47:37 PM
You know, I totally agree, oldbushie.

It's all about the sheer levelling of everything and the disappearance of uniqueness.

I mean, 7-11 is selling cell phones and video games. It's like a mini Wal-mart!

Pretty soon every store will sell everything and it will all be made by Microsoft.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on December 06, 2004, 04:32:22 PM
Bleagh. ;P

*decides to send some ninjas to kidnap Bill Gates* :D
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on December 07, 2004, 01:13:32 AM
It was an IE security update that was with 98SE

You don't need it with XP SP2 on IE

Windows 98/98SE/Millenium (critical updates until date below)

extended support ends in June of 2006 --- I think this is mainly because people still like using DOS with their old games and XP only has a command.com prompt and no true DOS and yes I was a person who wrote Bill Gates on why 98SE needed more life and frequented the microsoft 98 newsgroup to expand my knowledge of Windows 98SE.   8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 07, 2004, 01:20:48 AM
Well, partly the consumer is to blame because they wanted to save a few cents and drove mom and pop stores out of business by going to Wal-Mart.
Maybe Mozilla Firefox will succeed in the casting down IE.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: GravityMX on December 07, 2004, 06:20:30 AM
I mean, 7-11 is selling cell phones and video games. It's like a mini Wal-mart!

OMG, WTF over here (Australia) 7-11 is just a petrol station. What's next KFC having movie screenings ???

Maybe Mozilla Firefox will succeed in the casting down IE.

Let's hope so  8)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on December 07, 2004, 06:39:29 AM
Maybe Mozilla Firefox will succeed in the casting down IE.
Mozilla is better than Firefox :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: GravityMX on December 07, 2004, 06:49:16 AM
Mozilla is better than Firefox :P

Either way, their still much better than I.E.  ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on December 07, 2004, 07:04:26 AM
IE is part of Windows. As long is Windows is the dominant/main OS, IE will always be the dominant/main browser. :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on December 07, 2004, 07:17:12 AM
People don't always use IE just because Windows makes you have it :P
People install Mozilla and Firefox because it is much more secure :P, but yeah even if everyone stops using it, Bill Gates will continue to make it part of Windows :-\
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: Oldbushie on December 07, 2004, 08:36:02 AM
Like many people have said before, why not have all the final Win98SE updates released on CD? If support ends then people on really old machines need some way to update it to at least be somewhat stable....
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on December 07, 2004, 08:52:52 AM
It sucks that my school email can only be checked properly in IE. ;P It just won't load right in Opera for some reason...
Title: Re:operating systems
Post by: dew7 on December 07, 2004, 02:38:19 PM
Well you can call Microsoft and they have a cd with updates but it will only cover you through Oct. 2003 --- will Microsoft release another newer cd -- maybe but who knows if they want to go to the expense --- however this is a good thought Oldbushie and hopefully Microsoft will release another cd at the end of 98SE's supported life
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 07, 2004, 02:48:29 PM
That is true with Creative's auto-update feature (needs IE) for their soundcards as well although you can update them manually with another browser.   :-\
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 12, 2004, 10:50:24 PM
Just some thoughts to help you decide which Windows version is Best:

But surely they realized the fallacy of doing this by the time Win98 was released!!    Why would they need to dedicate two limited 64K blocks in memory, instead of using, and reserving, more RAM for this stuff?    Was this due to the limitations of the 80286 (and below)?     That 64K segment addressing crap limitation??

The reason is simple - "Backwards compatibility".   There were a large number of applications where the programmers used a "cute programmers
trick" of bypassing the operating system functions by having their application write directly to the resource heaps.  Because the resource heaps were fixed in size this was technically not difficult to do and it did provide some modest performance improvements.

This type of programming is one of the major reasons why many DOS and Windows 3.x applications will not run under NT based versions of Windows including 2000 and XP.

Microsoft did tweak the operating system design over time so as to reduce the usage of the 16 bit Resource Heaps by moving as much as
possible to the 32 bit heaps, but it was not possible to move everything with backwards compatibility being the biggest consideration.   So there were significant improvements in the 16 bit
resource usage with Windows 98SE and Windows Me compared to the original release Windows 95, but they still remained as a critical part of the operating system.

Hope this explains the situation.


Ron Martell     Duncan B.C.    Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 12, 2004, 10:52:43 PM
and a plug for NT   :P

The NT series of operating systems (WinNT, Win2000, WinXP) do a much better job here. You cannot run out of "system resources" in those systems.
>
> --
> Tim Slattery
> MS MVP(DTS)
> Slattery_T@bls.gov
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 12, 2004, 10:57:51 PM
Finally this bit of history may be interesting to some:

The goal was to make systems that would sell, be backwards compatible, etc., long enough to let them get a user-friendly NT kernel system (i.e. XP) into place.

That became the goal during the Windows 98 period but NT simply wasn't fit for that sort of use just yet.  PnP wasn't really working fully, there was still no defragger, it only supported older versions
of DirectX, etc. and on top of all that, it cost more.

Win2000 was supposed to be the Win9x-killer, but misfired.  9x was locked into old hardware paradigms, whereas hardware had to improve substantially before XP could become a reality.

At the time 95 came out, it was in step with the most modern hardware.

By the time of 98, NT could make better use of hardware, but driver support was still slower for NT than it was for 98.

It's only now, in the XP era, that NT's ability to use new hardware, DirectX, Media Player etc. is ahead of Win9x - and RAM capacities have
also caught up with NT's requirements.

Even now, NT isn't complete, from the perspective of home users.  There's still no maintenance OS, and we are still expected to use crusty DOS-shaped ChkDsk while waiting for Scandisk to be invented.

Courtesy of "cquirke (MVP Win9x)"
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 22, 2004, 11:28:17 AM
I must say that I am very pleased with my dual-booting of 98SE and XP Pro.  I have 98SE on my C: drive as Fat32 and XP Pro. as NTFS.  Thus, 98SE cannot even see my D: drive and I am careful about not saving anything from XP to my C: drive to avoid any potential conflicts.  I would suggest people to go this route if they need the backwards-compatibility of 98SE as well as the newer technologies of XP to support the latest hardware and some of the latest software.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Storm on December 22, 2004, 04:21:28 PM
A funny thing -
Searching for "longhorn" on my current favorite file sharing program, I get a full page of (downloadable) "M$ Windows Longhorn" results :S
*Wonders whether to download a copy*
Nahh :P

Has it been released yet? ???
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 22, 2004, 04:28:15 PM
No, it has not been released.  I think it is going into beta stage next year and is currently only in alpha testing stage.  I think Longhorn will be released in 2006 or 2007.
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on December 31, 2004, 01:13:15 AM
:>  I thought this debate might interest some users -- from microsoft 98 general newsgroup:

 Dan (Still seems to be a great demand for 98SE)  I wonder how long this will last?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
 The demand for SE is a last-gasp effort to keep using Windows 98, period. It is minimum requirement for USB2 and Firewire devices, and even then, it is
quickly fading. My guess is that by the end of 2005, not even Win98SE or Windows ME will make it onto many MinReq lists
 
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
>
For the new major applications software, yeah.   But I guess the Big Question is:  do we really need those, or can the old apps do what we need -
and do just fine?

An example:  I could still be reasonably content using Office 95 or Office 97.    Both do more than I need.

Windows 95 would have been pretty much ok, too, although (admitedly) I do like a few goodies in Win98SE.  ("Reminds me of Copycat -- Dew7")

Windows 3.1 (and the 8.3 filename apps that ran on it)?    Uh, well, you can have that one!    LOL!

Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on January 18, 2005, 08:32:37 AM
All this talk about browsers has me thinking.  I wonder if  Microsoft will ever release the 9x source code to the open-source community after support for 98SE is ended on 30 June 2006.  Also, in the 98 general newsgroup someone mentioned that the use of 98(98SE) machines that are connected to the internet is down to 5%.

 :-\  :'(  :-\  :'(
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on January 18, 2005, 09:51:13 AM
Considering it's Microsoft... I doubt they'd do that. :-\

They have nothing to gain from doing that, and might have something to lose ( if they ever decide to make use of the 9x code ). :P
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: dew7 on January 19, 2005, 08:42:36 AM
Very true, LN.  I don't think there is a chance that Microsoft will do it for pr reasons or to allow themselves to have some true competition to the NT source code and allow the 9x source to show how really truly awesome it is in the hands of the open-source community.  However, my "pipe dream" will continue.

 ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Oldbushie on June 29, 2005, 07:22:46 PM
Windows 3.1 rocks! :B
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: racx_00 on July 02, 2005, 05:36:57 AM
Yeah! Rock on Windows 3.1! :D
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: copycat on July 06, 2005, 05:13:26 PM
Windows 3.1 rocks! :B
Ofcoure it rocks, it's based on the most reliable OS ever: DOS. ;)
Title: Re:Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: edgarnick on July 22, 2005, 11:28:31 AM
my favourite version of windows is M.E because it has MS-DOS. And the only reason i like MS-DOS is because i play kq6 with it.
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on August 08, 2005, 11:16:53 AM
*dusts off thread*

For those that don't know already, Apple is switching to x86 CPUs now(translation= Macintosh computers are going to start using Pentiums, Athlons, and/or the like). Sadly, the new version of OSX will not run any of the old Mac and OSX software(to the best of my knowledge).
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on August 08, 2005, 03:10:18 PM
Yeah I saw that a while back  ;D things are going to start getting quite interesting I reckon.
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on December 30, 2005, 10:08:52 PM
Has anyone else tried Vista yet?... it's odd. :P

*plays with the Vista server beta*
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: racx_00 on December 31, 2005, 11:55:08 AM
I've seen screenshots. Looks too mac like for me :P
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Louisiana Night on December 31, 2005, 01:21:46 PM
Well, I'm using the server version. Looks more like a 9x OS than a Mac. :P

and, if you have a large hardrive, it makes XP look shameful(clients can install, not just the admin... though I've been running it almost completely in admin mode). ;)

The way user accounts work in XP is annoying... well, so is Vista's/Longhorn's, but not as annoying. ;P
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: racx_00 on December 31, 2005, 01:26:22 PM
Well, I'm using the server version. Looks more like a 9x OS than a Mac. :P

and, if you have a large hardrive, it makes XP look shameful(clients can install, not just the admin... though I've been running it almost completely in admin mode). ;)

The way user accounts work in XP is annoying... well, so is Vista's/Longhorn's, but not as annoying. ;P
User accounts are not the only thing that sucks about (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/racx_00/XP.png) ;P
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: awesomeasapossum on December 31, 2005, 01:53:45 PM
I have an XP! oh and...I can play all my old programs on it to: X-Men, Spider-Man, and X-Men Cartoonmaker, ALL of the King's Quests, and other things.
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: edgarnick on January 15, 2006, 02:05:45 PM
To be personal I <3 XP. I have once had a macintosh computer and i hated it :P Theres not enough compatibility with programs, devices, and theres no floppy drive :O When Windows XP came out it was my exscuse to get a new computer XD
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Gilgamesh on January 15, 2006, 02:12:54 PM
I don't like XP The old version of DOS has been removed.
No more old games that only work on DOS :'(

I know it's still on it but there are some games you can't play anymore when you have XP  :'(
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: racx_00 on January 19, 2006, 07:41:09 AM
I still say XP looks like a smiley :P

Anyway, it truly does suck that DOS was removed. Imagine what Vista is gonna be like XD
Title: Re: Which version of Windows is Best?
Post by: Stan on January 22, 2006, 11:20:56 PM
In my opinion, ME was poor because it removed easy access to MS-DOS like 98SE had and I think Microsoft even thinks ME is poor because the expiration date expires on June 30, 2006 and that is the same day for 98, 98SE and ME.  This most likely will be the final gasp for the 9x code.
Title: Re: operating systems
Post by: Stan on January 22, 2006, 11:25:25 PM
* Wonders if this topic should be merged with Which Windows is Best and possibly change to Which Operating System is Best? *
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on January 25, 2006, 06:15:18 PM
Dew7 wonders if Vista will live up to the hype.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 07, 2006, 12:26:20 AM
Dew7 hopes others will come with insight into which operating system they like best.  I am thinking it may be almost time to close the topic but I think I will wait and see if I can drum up some more interest.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 08, 2006, 10:55:31 PM
What does everyone think of Windows One Care beta and will it help to improve Windows operating systems and security.

http://www.windowsonecare.com/
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Warlock on February 09, 2006, 12:44:29 AM

I honestly think it's a good idea, Windows has been lacking in terms of security when compared to most Linux systems and Mac O/S. But of course, Windows is much more targeted, so it's naturally going to be more vulnerable and exposed. But I think this OneCare sounds interesting, if it's done the right way it might bring some confidence back in Windows on my end.  8)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 09, 2006, 11:11:27 PM
I agree with you and apparently Windows OneCare will have the regular version released in June.  It is also interesting that we will have the end of final security support from Microsoft of the Windows 9x line (98, 98SE and ME) in June.  This will be at the end of June.  Also, Windows Vista will be arriving this year.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Drunken Chinchilla on February 12, 2006, 10:21:01 AM
Vista looks really pretty, but im not sure if i'll be getting it for a couple of years till they bring out an affordable student price.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 12, 2006, 10:13:50 PM
I think it would be best to wait and see how popular Vista is and also I am sure it will take at least a few months for possible bugs to be worked out.  Wow, I am now a magical genie.  I am past 1499 posts.
 :o
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 18, 2006, 07:12:09 PM
Support for 98, 98SE and ME has been extended to July 11, 2006 from June 30, 2006.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/support/endofsupport.mspx

This means that everyone will have one more final round of security update(s).
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on February 19, 2006, 11:41:35 PM
So, how many people here use FreeBSD? ::)

*raises hand*

The differences in between it's and Linux's way of sharing code is actually very interesting... to me anyway. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: edgarnick on February 22, 2006, 10:32:41 AM
Is BSD that one that has a little devil for a mascot ;P ?
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on February 22, 2006, 03:13:08 PM
Yes.

Their mascot is also an avatar in the forum avatar list.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 22, 2006, 06:32:11 PM
BSD reminds me of BSOD = Blue Screen of Death -- Thankfully I cannot remember the last time I got one of those on my PC.   ;D
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on February 23, 2006, 06:48:25 AM
I haven't had a BSOD in ages. But I guess other problems make up for that. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on February 23, 2006, 09:38:19 PM
Change to XP and you won't need to worry about it. ;)

or, if you like it, there's an option to activate it as well. ;P

Oh, and does anyone remember that OS poll? I've changed my mind, I prefer 2000 to XP. Windows2000 doesn't try to kill Linux(Ironically, it ended up making me lose access to XP instead... last time anyway :P ). ;P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 23, 2006, 10:43:59 PM
I hear that XP will reboot if there is a problem rather than give you a BSOD.  Anyway, I dual-boot with 98SE and XP Pro. and neither them have given me any trouble lately.  I have rarely used Windows 2000 so I don't have any comment about it.  I have noticed how more and more of Microsoft's downloads require you to run a check to make sure you have valid Microsoft software.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on February 24, 2006, 09:37:50 AM
XP does give the BSOD occasionally. :-\
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Louisiana Night on February 24, 2006, 01:27:45 PM
I've never known any version/copy of XP to have that enabled by default... so I'm betting someone enabled it. And yes, Dew, it does reboot instead(well, most of the time anyway, going by what Jason just said :P).
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 24, 2006, 10:54:54 PM
Has Windows 2000 ever given you a BSOD?
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on February 25, 2006, 06:49:17 AM
Yup.  It looks pretty much the same as XP's BSOD.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 25, 2006, 11:51:30 PM
Thanks for replying!   :D

Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on March 25, 2006, 11:52:47 AM
Well Microsofts next operating system Vista has now been delayed from November 2006 until January 2007.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Storm on April 05, 2006, 04:56:22 AM
XP does give the BSOD occasionally. :-\

I never got a BSOD on XP :S
Sure, it would crash sometimes and suddenly reboot or give the "there's been an error and can we tell our big brother server about it" message, but no actual blue in sight... I figured they stopped using it for PR reasons.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 05, 2006, 06:06:27 AM
Those actually are the BSOD's.  It's just by default, they're set to automatically reboot your computer rather than display them. ::)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 05, 2006, 12:19:23 PM
I guess the reason being that it is supposed to be more user friendly.
 ;)  :P  :suffer:
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 19, 2006, 08:42:08 AM
I actually saw the BSOD though, I had to restart the computer myself. :-\

Might have had something to do with running XP on FAT32.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 21, 2006, 09:04:56 PM
Well in XP -- (at least in XP Pro.) you can configure the options to have the computer reboot or show you a BSOD.   ;)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 22, 2006, 03:45:58 AM
Well I have XP Pro, and I wouldn't have a clue how to configure that. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on April 23, 2006, 08:37:08 AM
I've got mine looking like Win98. XD

At least I fixed it so that it doesn't crash quite as much. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 23, 2006, 09:30:04 PM
Well I have XP Pro, and I wouldn't have a clue how to configure that. :P

1.  Open Control Panel
2.  Open System (I have mine in Classic mode -- imo much easier to work with)
3.  Click Advanced tab
4.  Under Startup and Recovery -- click settings
5.  In the middle of the box you will see system failure and can check or uncheck box that says Automatically restart to show whether or not you want your BSOD.

 ;)  8)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 23, 2006, 09:32:10 PM
I've got mine looking like Win98. XD

At least I fixed it so that it doesn't crash quite as much. :P

Do you mean that you have the settings on Classic mode.  If so then I also have mine on Classic mode.  :->  BTW, how did you fix your computer so it did not crash that much.  I am just wondering -- fortunately mine seems to hardly ever crash   :D
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on April 23, 2006, 10:30:35 PM
Well I have XP Pro, and I wouldn't have a clue how to configure that. :P

1.  Open Control Panel
2.  Open System (I have mine in Classic mode -- imo much easier to work with)
3.  Click Advanced tab
4.  Under Startup and Recovery -- click settings
5.  In the middle of the box you will see system failure and can check or uncheck box that says Automatically restart to show whether or not you want your BSOD.

 ;)  8)
THanks for that! I have the control panel in classic as well, too confusing otherwise. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on April 23, 2006, 10:34:18 PM
I basically disabled all the unnecessary startup programs and services. XD I like having the bare essentials and nothing more.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 25, 2006, 07:57:31 PM
You're welcome, racx!

Well I hope you still have a firewall enabled along with antivirus and antispyware, oldbushie.   ;)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 28, 2006, 01:52:23 PM
This was from the microsoft 98 general newsgroup from

98 Guy

"I have a LOT against XP.

XP should never have been pushed into the home computer market
starting in 2002 as a replacement for Win-98 or Win-Me.  The reason
why spam exploded in 2003 and malware has exploded is because of the
many vulnerabilities that XP had when it first came out.  Why
microsoft left so many services turned on by default in XP-home
boarders on criminal.  Home and SOHO systems have absolutely no need
for the various remote-admin services and user/privilege hierarchy that
is inherent in any NT-based Os like XP.  XP is an over-managed and
over-complicated OS (not to mention over-vulnerable). 

Where I work, we ship computers for industrial/scientific use with
specialized hardware (that we design/build) and software (that we
write).  XP is installed on those computers (only because stupid-ass
sys-admins pretty much make it a defacto requirement for any computer
that's connected to end-customers' networks).  Because the computer
hardware is identical, I clone each XP installation from a master
system (never have any problems with WGA/WPA).  That way, I can keep a
single system patched (and optimized, tweaked, etc) and just clone it
as needed.

While our computers ship with XP, our developers stick with Win-2k,
and everyone else (admin, sales, production) run Win-98.  We have 2
servers (web, pop-mail, etc) running NT-4, and they run by themselves
in a room that can go weeks without anyone needing to go in and do
something.  Because we run largely Win-98 systems, we don't have a
need for a full-time (or even part-time) IT person.  Inter-office
e-mail is handled by the ancient (but bullet-proof) MS-Mail, and we
run a no-longer-available SMTP package on one of our NT-servers
(Post.Office).   Our office PC's are P-4 machines with 80 gig drives
and 512MB of ram with NVidia AGP video cards with Office 2000 pro.
Needless to say, they're pretty stable with Win-98.

So don't tell me that Win-98 isn't suitable for corporate or business
environments.  Microsoft has a vested interest to sling mud at Win-98,
and various fools and lemmings will always believe them."
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on April 28, 2006, 02:10:18 PM
Win98 is fine if you're running older software, and non-memory intensive programs.  However, I'm pretty sure it's just as vulnerable to spyware as any other Windows O/S.  When did you say MS will stop offering Windows Updates for 98 again, June?
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 28, 2006, 02:22:30 PM
The current date of end of life for 98, 98SE and ME is set for
July 11, 2006

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/support/endofsupport.mspx
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on April 28, 2006, 04:28:12 PM
I sure hope ReactOS gets reasonably finished soon...
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 28, 2006, 05:19:12 PM
If your talking about this -- it says it is 83.6% complete

http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on April 28, 2006, 06:44:17 PM
And that's just the audit. :P

The program itself is only half done so far, if that.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 29, 2006, 11:05:42 AM
Well, I emailed Microsoft about the comments from the 98 guy and some of my own comments.  I got a response that the information will be sent to the appropriate department.  I will continue to inform everyone on the updates and information I receive from Microsoft.  Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 04, 2006, 02:52:22 PM
Here it is and no real answer unfortunately --  ::)  :P  :suffer:

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.
 
Thank you taking the time to provide us your feedback.
 
Microsoft is committed to listening to our customers and partners and improving our products and services.
 
Due to the volume of product feedback we receive, we cannot guarantee individual responses to all suggestions, but we really appreciate your thoughts and opinions.
 
For technical support issues, please visit http://support.microsoft.com/
For general information about Microsoft products and services, please visit http://support.microsoft.com/contactus
 
Daniel, I hope the above information is helpful. If you have any concerns, please write back to us.
 
Thank you for using Microsoft products and services.
 
Punshiba
Microsoft Online Customer Service Representative
 
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Rosella on May 04, 2006, 03:55:27 PM
That's like when my mom tried to report an error in IE 7.0! :P "Your call is very important to us, please hold FOREVER while we make you listen to Queen! :suffer:"

Ok, maybe it wasn't EXACTLY like that... :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 05, 2006, 12:03:29 AM
Yeah, if you call Microsoft's technical support then you usually will have to wait forever.   ;)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on May 05, 2006, 09:52:33 PM
You could always invade Bill Gates' home and ask him in person... XD I know he's not officially in charge of Microsoft anymore, but still.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 05, 2006, 10:20:44 PM
I still do wonder if Microsoft will change their mind again and decide that not enough third world countries have updated to XP and decide to extend 98, 98SE and ME again.  That was the official reason last time.  However, I have a feeling that it will take a miracle for 98, 98SE and ME to get another extension.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 11, 2006, 01:37:38 AM
Update:

Windows Update will still work like normal for 6-12 months after July 11, 2006.  As far as any more extensions, I don't know.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on May 13, 2006, 02:09:17 PM
They should just release Win98TE and be done with it. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 13, 2006, 05:31:27 PM
Yeah, that would be nice an older operating system that was compatible with almost all 9x and most DOS games.  I still wonder why Microsoft doesn't have a classics line in the operating systems that would fully support older games and software.  In addition, the classic operating system could have much lower system requirements so people with older computers could use them.  Then perhaps we would not have as many computers ending up in landfills.  A Windows 98 Third Edition would be something that I would buy if it could live up to the expectations that I detailed above.   8)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on June 14, 2006, 03:51:22 PM
I suggest everyone update their Windows ASAP.  My Windows 98SE side of my computer had 5 critical updates.  Anyway, next month on 11 July 2006 will mark the end of 98/98SE/ME updates unless there happens to be another extension which is super unlikely.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Erik on June 14, 2006, 05:40:04 PM
How 'bout the upcoming windows Vista?
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 01, 2006, 11:37:12 PM
It will be interesting to see how Windows Vista turns out.  I am sure many current computers may have trouble running it due to high system requirements.  I guess all of us will have to wait and see.   ;)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 02, 2006, 01:52:05 PM
Really? What are its requirements? ???
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on July 03, 2006, 02:26:37 PM
You need a 20 gHz machine with 5 gigabytes of RAM. And a quadruple processor. And 50 gigabytes of free space on your hard drive. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 07, 2006, 03:54:55 PM
LOL --- wow only a few days to 98, 98SE and ME's final round of updates
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 15, 2006, 06:01:55 PM
Well official support has ended for 98, 98SE and ME from Microsoft.  Also, Virtual Machine is now available for free from Microsoft.  In addition, it looks like there will be no more updates for 98, 98SE and ME from Zone Alarm folks because it has gone into the unsupported phase.  The end of the 9x era has passed and into the NT era only. <sigh>
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 15, 2006, 10:51:45 PM
Does this mean you're finally going to upgrade to Windows XP? :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 15, 2006, 11:39:51 PM
LOL --- I dual boot with Windows XP Professional and Windows 98 Second Edition --- 98SE works well with old games and I just know it really well --- XP Pro. does more but is targeted by just about every hacker so I limit my use of it unless I need to use it -- <smile>  I also suggest using an alternate browser such as Opera.

check out www.secunia.com for current threats:
http://secunia.com/product/13/
for 98SE threats
http://secunia.com/product/16/
for XP Home
http://secunia.com/product/22/
for XP Professional
http://secunia.com/product/11/
for Internet Explorer
http://secunia.com/product/4227/
for Mozilla Firefox
http://secunia.com/product/10615/
for Opera

Fortunately, for me --- I currently use Adaware SE, Spybot Search and Destroy, Zone Alarm Pro. (although no more updates for 98SE -- it still registers as complete stealth on grc.com), AntiVir, etc.  Also, if you remember a while back my XP Professional side was hacked but my 98SE still is just moving along nicely.  It amuses me to see the access attempts on my ZA Pro. firewall on my 98SE system.  I will await to see if a critical vulnerability comes out that will affect 98SE -- apparently there is one that Microsoft will not patch due to it changing the overall working of the operating system that might not allow users to still run old programs but as long as users block Port 139 and 445 with their firewall then all is okay
Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/Bulletin/MS06-015.mspx)
betanews (http://www.betanews.com/article/No_Fix_for_Critical_Windows_98_Me_Flaw/1149873723)


EDIT: Forum stretching
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 24, 2006, 07:41:04 PM
Well support for XP Service Pack 1 is scheduled to end on October 10, 2006.  It sure looks like Microsoft wants everyone to be using XP SP2 and to think by next year I am sure the big push by Microsoft will be for everyone to use Vista.  With support for 98, 98SE and ME gone and available only on the website and no new critical updates for these operating systems it suddenly seems crucial for everyone to be on the latest operating system from Microsoft.  I really wonder now if Linux and/or Apple will start to greatly increase their market share.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Raforever on July 27, 2006, 07:47:38 AM
It's also been noted microsoft has been dishing out windows "updates" that check if the windows is orginal. No real harm done (i think). The problem is having that strange thing in the status bar (and as a result another service running). Also seems to be unremovable. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 27, 2006, 12:40:13 PM
You can disable that.  But I agree it's annoying and always lags my computer on startup. ::)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 27, 2006, 06:36:52 PM
There is quite a controversy going on about WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) which is used in Windows XP.  Thank goodness, it is not a part of Windows 98 Second Edition.  Apparently, I have read that the utility phones home (Microsoft) and delivers your ip (internet protocol) address and other information about your computer and what you have installed to Microsoft.  I find this to be very annoying and it makes me wonder if Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot with all this make sure it is genuine Microsoft software.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 27, 2006, 11:51:36 PM
They've had that built into Windows Update for at least a year or two though.  I think it's more meant to help them stop piracy than invade people's privacy.  8)

Besides, Microsoft isn't the only software that uses product activation (a.k.a. phoning home).
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Raforever on July 28, 2006, 07:12:51 AM
Theres quite a big list that do (can't rememeber now though)
:P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 28, 2006, 09:18:08 AM
Yep.  Not to mention, spyware. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Raforever on July 28, 2006, 03:39:07 PM
and.. ADware XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 28, 2006, 06:10:46 PM
I find it interesting because I use Zone Alarm Pro. now on both 98SE and XP PRO..  It is much better to have the bi-directional firewall then the one way Microsoft firewall in XP.  I notice the ZA is always telling me that Microsoft components in XP Pro. want to access the Internet.  However, it is not this way that the Microsoft components always want to access the Internet with 98SE.  In my opinion, Microsoft is glad to be able to retire the 9x source code but thankfully consumers can still use Microsoft support pages and access Windows Update until at least July 11, 2007 for all previous support.  I read that Windows NT (New Technology) (the technology used in Windows XP) was originally called Windows (Not There) by early Microsoft engineers.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on July 28, 2006, 07:08:33 PM
I notice the ZA is always telling me that Microsoft components in XP Pro. want to access the Internet.  However, it is not this way that the Microsoft components always want to access the Internet with 98SE. 
Actually, I did always wonder about the whole svchost.exe stuff...  Could you ask an MS engineer for me about why there's so many of them and why they keep trying to access the internet?

Thanks! ;D
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 28, 2006, 07:26:12 PM
Sure, I would be glad to find out the answer for myself as well.  It will take a few days for me to give you a reply.   ;)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 02, 2006, 07:56:36 PM
Well, I know that there are so many Microsoft components since the XP operating system is complex.  So far, the only response to my query about the components wanting to phone home is to provide Microsoft with more information.  The newsgroups seem to think it is a conspiracy and that it has to do with WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) issues and so I am still waiting for a clear and concise answer.  When and if I get that answer remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 03, 2006, 12:32:47 PM
The most logical reason for them wanting to contact Microsoft is as you said, WGA, to check for priacy.  However, that only needs to be done once, so it doesn't make sense why they continue to run and why there are so many of them... :S
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 04, 2006, 12:42:52 AM
Well, here is Microsoft's response:

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.
 
I apologize for any delay in our response to your issue. Due to an increase in requests, our response time may be longer than usual. We appreciate your patience.
 
I understand that you wish to know about the Windows Genuine Advantage. I realize your concern.
 
I would like to inform you that  the Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) program is part of Microsoft’s on-going effort to protect its customers and partners from counterfeit software, and increase customer awareness of the value of genuine Windows. Windows Genuine Advantage is a program designed to highlight the value of genuine Windows software over counterfeit copies.
 
The WGA program creates an improved Windows experience for users who have a genuine copy of Windows. Windows Update is a benefit that is only available to customers who are using a genuine copy of Windows.
 
The WGA validation process does not require or collect any personally identifiable information. Customers who have a genuine copy of Windows and who choose not to complete the validation process can still obtain critical software updates by using Automatic Updates.
 
For more information about genuine Microsoft software, visit the following Microsoft Web site:
http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx
 
For information about Windows Validation, visit the following Microsoft Web site: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/WhyValidate.aspx
 
To review the Genuine Windows validation FAQ, visit the following Microsoft Web site: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/FAQ.aspx

It seems to me Microsoft kind of went around the issue and just wanted to tell what WGA does in a computer.  Well, I have done as good a job as I can do on my end and if you find out on your end why the Windows components want to keep accessing the Internet then let me know.  It seems to me that Microsoft wants to keep a constant eye on each and every computer that is connected to the Internet.  Maybe, this is kind of like George Orwell's 1984 but perhaps I am taking it too far.  What is your opinion, Neil and others if you want to add your voice.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 04, 2006, 08:39:52 AM
It does seem like I said, a measure of preventing software piracy.  Still, it doesn't explain why there are so many processes of them though.

The WGA validation process does not require or collect any personally identifiable information. Customers who have a genuine copy of Windows and who choose not to complete the validation process can still obtain critical software updates by using Automatic Updates.
I don't think that one's true, since it does say you must install the WGA hotfix before performing any Windows Update which is why I stopped performing WindowsUpdate on my family's PCs. ::)  I don't think I tried skipping the WGA before though, so if anyone knows if you're allowed to skip it, let me know. :)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 04, 2006, 11:04:11 AM
Well, I have heard you can still get the automatic updates if you click the tab to have them installed automatically.  Good Luck on maintaining a problem free computer this way because there have been stories in the newsgroups of this method messing up computers because everything installs automatically and you won't get utilities like the Windows Defender.  This is one of the reasons I still use 98SE although I have XP Pro. too.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 05, 2006, 07:12:16 AM
That's alright.  The only hotfix that messed up my computer was the one that forced you to activate Flash content.  First, I just googled how to uninstall that patch, but later I found the Adobe workaround and applied that to our intro and home flash. :)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 06, 2006, 07:36:25 PM
I thought this article might interest you about WGA, Neil.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14218345/

Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 07, 2006, 04:16:27 PM
Interesting... Then maybe I should start running Windows Update again on my mom's computer. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 07, 2006, 07:47:44 PM
I think it would be okay.  If you have a bi-directional firewall on the computer like ZA then you will be able to block Microsoft components from accessing the Internet if you are concerned.  I have not done that but a few report doing it from the Microsoft newsgroup(s).
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 07, 2006, 08:51:42 PM
Yep, all the computers I use have ZoneAlarm.  I prefer it to the router's firewall. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 07, 2006, 09:09:26 PM
In my opinion, it is simply better as well.  I posted a while ago about an attacker that was able to get around the router's firewall and the Windows firewall but I was not using ZA at that time in XP Pro. SP2.  Fortunately, Zone Alarm Professional has not failed me yet and it recently had that huge block from the hacker attack from China while I was using 98SE.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 22, 2006, 07:56:15 PM
Interesting column about how people could do more with the 98(SE) printer driver than with the printer driver in XP.

The following is courtesy of John Smith from 98 general newsgroup posting:

HP Printers: The Older, the Better?    

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog

http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2006/8/15/02925/4537

I didn't know that some HP XP printer drivers have less
functionality than the Win 98 drivers.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on August 24, 2006, 07:30:55 AM
Oh, that actually happened to me with Canon too.  For some reason, the older drivers had more functionality.  Maybe it's because Win2k+ uses common functionality for all printers, so the manufacturers sort of cut back. :P
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on August 24, 2006, 08:14:13 AM
dew7, you'll be happy to know that I now have AVG installed. :P It's still not a firewall, but at least it keeps an eye out for viruses. :P

*went without virus protection for months because he couldn't find a free alternative that was non-bulky* XD

And even after I installed it it didn't find anything besides a couple spyware things. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 24, 2006, 02:54:42 PM
People in the 98 general newsgroup posted about the driver of 9x being more complex than the NT driver but I really don't have many details about this and yeah Neil I think the printer manufacturers did cut back.

Way to go, Oldbushie.  I use AVG as well and like it.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 30, 2006, 11:02:17 AM
Chris Quirke, MVP (Most Valuable Professional) in the Microsoft newsgroups has some interesting things to say about safety on computers and Vista.

http://cquirke.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on August 30, 2006, 09:07:02 PM
I still use Window Update but I won't allow the installation of WGA. I've come to like XP, not as much as 98se but still a fair bit. Really not looking forward to Vista though. :-\
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on August 30, 2006, 10:13:58 PM
The market share of operating systems is worldwide as follows:

Windows XP = 86.80%
Windows 2000 = 6.09%
Windows 98(SE) = 2.68%

I would say take that Microsoft because 98SE is very good, easy to use on older computers and so this shows that people are not dummies and not all of them are being taken in by Microsoft's scare tactics of 98SE not being supported anymore as of July 11, 2006. <If you think about it -- 98SE (released in 1999) has already had 7 years of support which is really great for an operating system and so it has been patched to be very stable now.  The latest critical vulnerability at secunia.com for Internet Explorer has been patched for the current operating systems.  It may not apply to 98SE but then again even if it does I hope the users of 98SE are protected by a third party firewall like Zone Alarm Professional and/or a hardware firewall in their router.

Yeah, XP is okay and it does provide support for modern hardware like PCI Express and for current software that does not always run on 98SE.  It surprises me that Microsoft is releasing the Microsoft Explorer 3.0 mouse which I have and use along with a regular mouse with 98SE except they are changing it slightly and not providing support for 98SE with it -- Go Figure --- I still think it annoys Microsoft that 98SE is still doing so well.

OS  Market Share (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Owns-96-97-of-Global-OS-Market-33363.shtml)

Mouse (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/gaming/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=087&active_tab=systemRequirements)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on September 07, 2006, 08:16:25 AM
Whoa. :o  I knew WinXP was dominant, but I didn't know it was that dominant. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Shadowfax on September 19, 2006, 04:48:48 PM
Just my 'two-cents' on the subject...

Microsoft have the market advantage where I live for the simple reason that its always been around and easily available (whilst some die-hards love to claim they stole all their ideas from Apple...who in turn nicked them from Xerox...ultimately MS, certainly in the UK, was the first to widely license their software, gaining a foothold that 'snowballed' over time. The only dominant Mac related item over here in the UK seems to be the iPod!)

Whilst trendy media students and graphic designers like to use mac, for people like me and my associates, who do A LOT of computer work, we prefer windows because we can 'get into' the system far easier than we can with Mac (besides...I like two-click menues!) However, I have heard several horror stories of Windows XP computers turning themselves on in the middle of the night and performing random operations! (Though admittedly, the owners of the computers in question probably were involved in dubious acts of programming, as it were, though they claim this is no fault of their own!)

I know this has contributed 'nothing' to the debate but nonetheless!

BTW: Does anyone else suffer weird problems with Windows Update once in a while (trying to download when the internet is clearly OFFLINE or downloading useless updates that merely upset the OS!)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on September 21, 2006, 06:02:55 AM
No, I cannot say that I do Shadowfax.  I got a weird reboot on my computer today and no error message or anything but I did hit two keys and one was enter so perhaps I inadvertantly restarted my computer.  I am currently researching the issue.  The September 19 vulnerability is really bad and I highly suggest everyone update their antivirus utilities and antispyware utilities ASAP.  In addition, you may want to consider another browser such as Mozilla Firefox or Opera which are not affected.

Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on February 14, 2007, 06:45:01 PM
So now that Windows Vista has been released to the general public --- what does everyone here think?  Does it live up to the hype or is it just a poor substitute for XP?
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: tessspoon on February 14, 2007, 07:42:23 PM
Well, I don't like it, but that's only because my dad can't get us free versions from his work like it did with the previous ones. I haven't had a chance to actually try it yet.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Shades2585 on February 14, 2007, 08:02:59 PM
From what I've play with SR1 it's ok. I haven't spent much time on that machine though. I probably will when I get Vista Ultimate to put on it.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on February 15, 2007, 06:48:00 AM
I'd wait till the first service pack before even considering Vista. Personally I don't like the look of it and it's a new OS to learn and master. I just can't be buggered with it.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on February 21, 2007, 09:23:16 AM
I got Vista Business for free through my school and immediately configured it to look and act like 98SE. :P It's just XP with glitter and a coujple new features, not the new filesystem that they were going for. Which is actually kind of a relief because I didn't want to reformat my drives yet again. XD
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on March 04, 2007, 04:50:30 PM
It seems like people would be better off with XP than the cheap basic version of Vista but I do like the glass interface on the fancier versions of Vista.  I plan to wait for Vista as well until I need it.  I read that Direct X 10 will be for Vista only and will support only some of the fanciest and expensive video cards that are currently in use but I have no idea when Microsoft will release Direct X 10.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on March 15, 2007, 08:20:35 PM
Well, there have been some reports that Microsoft plans another operating system for the end of 2009 but that seems like that will hardly be enough time for Microsoft to let Vista get established and it may just be a rumor.  I also feel that it is a good idea to wait for a while while Vista gets stability issues worked out with their drivers working well on different hardware.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on April 03, 2007, 09:15:11 PM
Just a heads up that there was a security update for Windows today.

 ;)

Also, apparently PC World likes Windows XP better than Windows Vista due to continued problems with compatibility of drivers.  I noticed with the Sound Blaster Audigy that I own that the driver lacks features such as DVD Audio with Windows Vista so that would definitely make me not want to upgrade at least not for a while.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on May 08, 2007, 07:09:16 PM
Well looks like there are not too many vulnerabilities in Vista --- yet  :P

Microsoft Windows Vista contains a complete overview of all Secunia advisories affecting it. You can use this vulnerability report to ensure that you are aware of all vulnerabilities, both patched and unpatched, affecting this product allowing you to take the necessary precautions.

If you have information about a new or an existing vulnerability in Microsoft Windows Vista then you are more than welcome to contact us.



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Vendor    Microsoft

Product Link    View Here (Link to external site)

Affected By    8 Secunia advisories

Unpatched    25% (2 of 8 Secunia advisories)

Most Critical Unpatched
The most severe unpatched Secunia advisory affecting Microsoft Windows Vista, with all vendor patches applied, is rated Not critical

http://secunia.com/product/13223/
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on July 07, 2007, 03:30:35 PM
I noticed that Internet Explorer 7 continues the tradition by having only a maximum cipher stregth of 128 bits while some websites will support a stronger cipher strength of 256 bit that Mozilla Firefox supports.  I notice ----

Bank of America --- only uses 128 bit encryption
Citibank --- only uses 128 bit encryption
Yahoo Mail -- supports 256 bit encryption for log-in
Hotmail (aka LiveMail) --- only uses 128 bit encryption
Charles Schawb --- supports 256 bit encryption
Gmail --- supports 256 bit encryption
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: noaheugene20 on July 18, 2007, 08:33:26 PM
I got a new dell computer in christmas '06, it's specs are;

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.13GHz
4GB RAM
Windows XP media center
Nvidia 7950GX2 1GB Dual GPU video card
Ageia physx accelerator card 128MB
230GB 7200RPM hard drive
sound blaster card with 80W 5.1 surround sound speakers
DVD RW double layer combo drive
DVD rom combo drive

My old AST PC:
Intel 486 66MHz
16MB RAM
2MB SVGA video card
32x CD-ROM drive
Dos 6.22 and windows 3.1
200MB hard drive
soundblaster model CT4180
1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive
1.44MB 3.5" floppy drive  :)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: racx_00 on July 19, 2007, 03:20:52 PM
You went from your old PC to the new one? Wow! Big jump!
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on September 10, 2007, 09:53:45 AM
A huge jump.  I still enjoy using my old 486 with a Roland-MT32 music card.  It sounds so sweet and it is great using Windows 3.1 and DOS.  I only hope that I will be able to develop with other people's help of course a tri-source code using open-source technology, Windows NT technology and Windows 9x technology that could provide a secure operating system for the U.S. military.

Posted on: July 22, 2007, 11:15:08 PM

I find that it is great to continue working on the old 486 where my information is not hurt because that computer is not hooked up to the Internet.   8)

The dual-boot 98 Second Edition on c:\ drive and XP Professional is going to need a new motherboard due to mother nature.  A lightning storm fried the motherboard and fortunately everything was protected but the ethernet port but I am replacing the motherboard just in case it had further damge.

On the plus side, I now have a new laptop computer with Windows Vista Home Premium that is a Toshiba Laptop with AMD technology and an ATI graphics card.  It is interesting to note that Vista with Internet Explorer 7 is the only Microsoft web browser to have 256 bit encryption.  Note, I said Microsoft --- Mozilla Firefox has this by default -- now if only the banking industry such as Citibank and Bank of America would get on board and support 256 bit AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) like Gmail, Yahoo Mail and Charles Schwab to site a few examples already support.

Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Yonkey on September 10, 2007, 05:20:55 PM
My cousin got a new laptop with Vista on it, so I finally got to try it out myself.  Visually, it's very nice.  Searching for files is blazingly fast, unlike in every other version of Windows. 

The only thing I found annoying was its firewall.  It was just as annoying as it's portrayed in that Mac ad.  I think I'd probably stick with ZoneAlarm if I ever switched.  Also, I think it looks like it requires a good graphic card and a ton of RAM.  I have no idea if this 3-year-old NVidia card would cut it. :P

Overall though, I don't really see the need to upgrade from XP.  Maybe when most of industry has switched over to Vista I will, but I hear it's still quite buggy, so I won't be migrating to it for a while.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on September 10, 2007, 05:26:49 PM
You are right, Neil.  Vista is still buggy and has compatibility problems.  Sure, it is more secure than XP but it still has lots of issues.  That is one reason why my elementary school at APS still uses XP Professional.  Unfortunately, all the computer issues at the school happened during the summer while I was working as a camp counselor in another city in New Mexico.  Well, at least they believe me now since they switched my unpaid leave to paid leave.  In the meantime, I will be busy with Jury Duty this week.

Bye for now, Dew7
aka Daniel --- the Danster
Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Elessar on September 10, 2007, 07:37:41 PM
My old AST PC:
Intel 486 66MHz
16MB RAM
2MB SVGA video card
32x CD-ROM drive
Dos 6.22 and windows 3.1
200MB hard drive
soundblaster model CT4180
1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive
1.44MB 3.5" floppy drive  :)
One of my computers is quite comparable:
486 processor
32MB RAM
SVGA video card
4x CD-ROM drive (Yes, only 4 :o)
Dos 7.3 (formerly 5.0, then 6.0, 6.2, and 6.22) and Windows 3.1 (formerly 3.11 Windows for Workgroups, but it wasn't as good as 3.1)
400MB hard drive (later added a second 500 MB drive)
Soundblaster
1.44MB 3.5" floppy drive
1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive (it was added later ;))
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: Oldbushie on September 10, 2007, 08:56:35 PM
I have a 386 laptop with a color screen...handy for the really old games.
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on September 10, 2007, 10:39:25 PM
Exactly, I am currently replaying Zeliard on my old 486 PC.

 8)
Title: Re: Which operating system is the best?
Post by: dew7 on September 15, 2007, 07:35:29 AM
Oh yeah, I bought that game as well as Zeliard and have beaten both of them by myself after finding some parts of Zeliard especially difficult but Zeliard was so fun.  Sorcerian was fun as well and with a Roland MT-32 that my grandmother bought me for a whopping $700+ dollars on my PS/2 I still enjoy them.  I remember my grandmother who passed away when I was around 10 years old I think in New York City, Manhatten of course. <smile>  My parents moved away from N.Y.C. because of financial reasons -- it was very expensive and now we live in the Southwest, U.S.A.  I enjoy visiting NYC when I get a chance and have saved up enough of my own money for the expense since it certainly is super costly to even visit the city.