http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:R5XSDYBWzrIJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Quest+who+was+the+main+villain+in+King's+Quest+2+remake%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
At the above Wikipedia link, I found out some additional information about Shadrack:
1. "Shade" is his hidden name for himself
2. He wanted the body of Cassima dead or alive to fulfill his "peculiar interests" if Alhazred hadn't decided to keep her for himself- but Alhazred's plot was foiled in KQ6.... hmmmmm, what then would Shadrack do?
3. Mordack and Shadrack had plans to set up the destruction of the Green Isles with Alhazred's help.
And interesting information about King's Quest itself:
1. Alhazred wrote the Necronomicon- a dark tome feared throughout daventry. Does this have something to do with Alexander and Rosella's curse?
2. A NEW MINOTAUR took up residence in the catacombs after the death of the previous one.
3. Alhazrad, Mannanan and Hagatha are still potential lose ends to fuel the fire that threatens to burn the Green Isles.
4. What if the dark wizards make a trip of their own to the underworld to bring back Mordack as was done with Calaphim and Alaria.
Interesting Material if an add one was ever made for TSL, assuming its not in the original.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shadrack
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Abdul_Alhazred
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Mordack
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Hagatha
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Manannan
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Necronomicon
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Minotaur
Thanks Baggins.
(Posted on: July 02, 2010, 10:04:18 PM)
I like to think of "Father" in the Unofficial King's Quest 2 as Shadrack.
Its kinda unclear, but king's quest companion and a few other sources (alluded to in KQ6) seem to actually imply that Mordack and Shadrack are equals in the society. Abdul Alhazred was subservient to Mordack (his 'minion') but also Shadrack equal to some degree (at least after Mordack's death).
Fans kinda started the speculation that Shadrack was the leader of the group. Although this hasn't actually been stated officially.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Morgeilen
Moregeilen, the Father of the KQ2:RTS universe has had multiple identities. His real identity is Morgeilen.
Ok, so he is not part of the official King's Quest universe but there still is the possibility that he could be Shadrack. Will this speculation be resolved in the Silver Lining or will it be as if it never happened? One could only wonder.
Morgeilen is seperate from TSL, so no Father.
They are basing their game on the original KQ2, not the fan remake. They have their own alternate timeline as well (its a bit different than the official timelin). So think parallel stories between the various fan sources really.
Which fits perfectly with Peter Spear's ideas on the Multiverse....
Oh and I'm about ready to classify this thread as suffer-bait... just so you know. ;D
Quote from: Baggins on July 02, 2010, 09:07:38 PM
Moregeilen, the Father of the KQ2:RTS universe...
Is he supposed to be God?
It's a shame really. After playing through the KQ2 original versus the VGA remake, the storyline was far superior and more in depth. However, I suppose keeping it with the original is the way to go. I just don't like unresolved lose ends and that's what Morgeilen is to me. I guess someone should make another fan game to resolve that storyline, like a spin off. No, Morgeilen is not God but a very powerful being who desires even more power- check out the Wiki on him and it will tell you more.
QuoteWhich fits perfectly with Peter Spear's ideas on the Multiverse....
Well actually his idea of the Multiverse gives the ideas of alternate dimensions. However he doesn't really support the idea of "parallel characters". Basically an individual exists in a single form in one world (but can move between worlds), so no multiple Grahams running around. No multiple Roberta Williams or Peter Spears either :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:.
QuoteIt's a shame really. After playing through the KQ2 original versus the VGA remake, the storyline was far superior and more in depth. However, I suppose keeping it with the original is the way to go.
Well reading the KQC account helps flesh it out alot. Let's face it the so-called "remake" totally ripped the orignal story apart, there is very little in common. Several characters were cut, or severely altered from their original roles. It simply can't fit with the original story, and the one that so many manuals, and backhistories in the "about" screens in the later games reference.
QuoteNo, Morgeilen is not God but a very powerful being who desires even more power- check out the Wiki on him and it will tell you more.
Well technically Morgeilen's race the Ancients were described as being very god-like. There should be more on the race under Granthithor and Legenimore. There is a book in the library in the game that talks more about the Ancients. Also there is this running story about "Acension" which seems to implied to be tied to the Cataclysm from MOE. Which seems to be idea of becoming like God. Its not direct, but the game may actually imply that Lucreto is yet another aspect of Morgeilen. So in a way you actually know the outcome, :). He got kicked into a limbo by Connor.
Hmm, I never played the remake, so I don't know about this god-like being. I'm a bit confused! :)
I'd recommend it. Even if it's not canon, it's a good story and the puzzles are a lot more fun than the original KQ2. You can get it here (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq2/download/download.html). Apparently they just updated it to have better graphics and narration, too!
Basically, from what I remember, The Father is somehow manipulating everything and causing all of the horrible things that happen to Graham and his family. Possibly like the part Shadrack plays in TSL?
Thanks for the link! I'll try to check it out. :yes:
So he's not good, like God? ???
No, no, he's definitely the primary evil force in the KQ2+ timeline. He arguably has god-like powers, but he's nothing like God.
Quote from: Rosella on July 03, 2010, 02:30:38 PM
He arguably has god-like powers
So he can create things like, earth, universe... and such? ::) :P
Quote from: Rosella on July 03, 2010, 02:30:38 PM
No, no, he's definitely the primary evil force in the KQ2+ timeline. He arguably has god-like powers, but he's nothing like God.
Ohhhhh, okay. The fact that you guys were referring to him as The Father threw me off. :)
Yes, he's nothing like god. In that he's pure evil. Legenimor was the nice of the brothers, and he gave up his powers voluntarily. Morgeilen coveted those powers. The only way to regain those powers is to get ahold of an ancient artifact, which happens to be in the shape of the Daventry's crown (it may or may not be an aspect of the Mask of Eternity). He has to have said artifact before the a certain future event (planets aline, blah blah), so that he can unlock said power and be able to Ascent. This stuff is actually pretty unclear, and is just implied through random books and comments made by the characters.
If anything Morgeilen is closer to Satan :devil:.
It gets worse that there are actually hints that Legenimor may or may not have died (he like his brother disappeared for a while), as I recall. There are even sections that blur the legends to imply that Legeninmore and Morgeilen may be one and the same individual, with Morgeilen having gone mad.
Its a minor bit of trivia, but Lucreto was actually based on Lucifer. So there are alot of things that Morgeilen and Lucreto have in common. They both are fallen angels of sorts, both wanted to cause some kind of future apacolypse which was prophecied millenia before, in order to have an ascension of sorts, and gain all the powers of the universe. Both needed an ancient artifact to succeed in said plan. There was a prophecy of a "champion eternal" of sorts that would somehow stop it from happening.
This is why I think the game hints that Morgeilen and Lucreto may be the same individual while not directly stating it.
Yeah, I don't really care for the remake much. I like the original better--they just changed too much.
Although, I guess I'm not really one to be making such comments. My fanfiction probably rips the story up quite a bit...
The thing is they could have expanded the game, gave it a better story, without changing the characters of Dracula, the monk, the Antinque dealer, etc, etc. They could have avoided removing characters such as the genie and the Good Fairy.
That is to say Dracula should have been in the game, as an evil character, the monk should have been in the game as a good character. The antique dealer's change was pretty minor (although she was essentially neutral originally).
The wedding should have taken place in the chapel. There is plenty they could have worked with to give said characters deeper backgrounds. While adding in new characters and puzzles.
That is they could have worked with the canon, and expanded upon it, rather than trying to blatantly defy it. That's essentially what the King's Quest companion did with the KQ2 novel, and the bonus material in the World of Daventry chapter and the An Encyclopedia of Daventry (in 1st and 2nd editions).
Its basically what Roberta did with her KQ1 remake (although she mainly changed the puzzles a bit, and expanded the story a bit), and the KQ3 team did (similar to the way Roberta did it, although some aspects diverged from the original in a more extreme way than the KQ1 remake).
I think KQ2 VGA is a fun game, but eh, I still prefer the original. Call it nostalgia, call it a form of purism, or whatever you like.
My hope is someone will decide to finish a more accurate update to the game, that expands the plot. I know the team that was working on KQ2 SCI was planning on doing that, but they stopped updating.
I applaud TSL's team for trying to stick to the original games (even if it ends up diverging a little in minor details).
Quote from: Baggins on July 02, 2010, 09:07:38 PM
Its kinda unclear, but king's quest companion and a few other sources (alluded to in KQ6) seem to actually imply that Mordack and Shadrack are equals in the society. Abdul Alhazred was subservient to Mordack (his 'minion') but also Shadrack equal to some degree (at least after Mordack's death).
Fans kinda started the speculation that Shadrack was the leader of the group. Although this hasn't actually been stated officially.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Morgeilen
Moregeilen, the Father of the KQ2:RTS universe has had multiple identities. His real identity is Morgeilen.
Yeah, the whole "Shadrack as the leader of the BCS/bad guy behind all the KQ games" was started by the fans. We don't know the nature of the Black Cloak Society--Was it simply a society of bad guys? A society of magically inclined bad guys? For all we know, Shadrack could just have been another member, perhaps on equal footing with Mordack but beneath someone else in the hierarchy.
But it's just so much easier to make Shadrack the leader. I mean, when you have "shad" in your name, making it so close to "shadow", you're kind of portrayed as really dark.
Though, now that you mention it, we don't really have any reason to believe that he's above Mordack. Though, he sure seems to think he is--especially in chess.
Mordack, "Mor" as in Moria, Mordor, Morgoth.
= Bad, Black, Evil.
Way worse than "Shadow".
I don't think Shadow when I hear Shadrack :p...
I think "Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednego" from the bible. Those who survived the fiery furnace.
Hmm, "Shadrack, Mordack, and Alhazred" is it a loose pun?
I seem to recall an interview somewhere with either Roberta or Jane where the Black Cloak Society was mentioned in a question and whoever it was (I honestly don't remember which one of the two it was who was being interviewed) stated that the Black Cloak Society was a potential storyline thread for a future game that was left alone... and was basically put into KQ6 to provide some kind of hook to said future game.
Obviously this future game was never realized and so the thread that exists in KQ6 is the only reference to the society. It's an unresolved plot device as far as the official games go.... not even the Sierra designers had much of an idea as to what the Black Cloak Society was all about. I imagine if things had turned out differently and the infamous "Black Monday" had never occured, this might have been resolved by an official KQ game... but then there probably wouldn't be TSL... so go figure.
I'm sure Baggins could probably dig up the interview I am referring to...
The Quote is at the bottom of the Society of the Black Cloak article;
QuoteThe Black Cloak Society was one of the ideas created by one of the King's Quest designers other than Roberta Williams;
"The "Black Cloak Society" was never an actual term that I instigated or thought up. I'm not actually sure where that came from. The closest thought that I have on that subject is that: when I was working with Jane Jensen on King's Quest 6, and we thought up the evil vizier, we talked loosely about the possibility of putting Mannanan, Mordack, and the vizier together as group -- possibly -- in a future King's Quest. There was loose reference to the possibility in King's Quest 6, although nothing was set in stone at that time. I think that it's possible that Jane Jensen might have mentioned the possibility (perhaps) in subsequent interviews on the subject, although, I'm not sure about that. Later on, I heard about the Black Cloak Society and kind of wondered where that phrase came from, but, I never refuted it as I thought it was kind of cool and, probably, would have gone on with the idea in future King's Quests had I had the chance. And, one final thing: Hagatha was never part in any discussion of a Black Cloak Society.
- Roberta Williams at SierraGamers (6-9-2003)
So ya, basically Roberta had little to do with it, and never really had any concrete plans to do anything with it. It was mainly Jane Jensen's pet idea apparently. Jane Jenson stopped making King's Quest games after KQ6.
Reading into Roberta's intent, it seems she didn't even remember the idea for the "future game" actually made it into KQ6. It seems it wasn't even an idea Roberta intended to put into KQ6. So KQ6 kinda morphed into that "future game".
She never did anything with it in KQ7 and MOE, its unclear when she heard about the idea again, and thought of what she would have done with it in 'hindsight', had she had the chance to make more games in the series (likely post MOE).
Quote from: Baggins on July 03, 2010, 10:29:36 PM
The Quote is at the bottom of the Society of the Black Cloak article;
QuoteThe Black Cloak Society was one of the ideas created by one of the King's Quest designers other than Roberta Williams;
"The "Black Cloak Society" was never an actual term that I instigated or thought up. I'm not actually sure where that came from. The closest thought that I have on that subject is that: when I was working with Jane Jensen on King's Quest 6, and we thought up the evil vizier, we talked loosely about the possibility of putting Mannanan, Mordack, and the vizier together as group -- possibly -- in a future King's Quest. There was loose reference to the possibility in King's Quest 6, although nothing was set in stone at that time. I think that it's possible that Jane Jensen might have mentioned the possibility (perhaps) in subsequent interviews on the subject, although, I'm not sure about that. Later on, I heard about the Black Cloak Society and kind of wondered where that phrase came from, but, I never refuted it as I thought it was kind of cool and, probably, would have gone on with the idea in future King's Quests had I had the chance. And, one final thing: Hagatha was never part in any discussion of a Black Cloak Society.
- Roberta Williams at SierraGamers (6-9-2003)
So ya, basically Roberta had little to do with it, and never really had any concrete plans to do anything with it. It was mainly Jane Jensen's pet idea apparently. Jane Jenson stopped making King's Quest games after KQ6.
Reading into Roberta's intent, it seems she didn't even remember the idea for the "future game" actually made it into KQ6. It seems it wasn't even an idea Roberta intended to put into KQ6. So KQ6 kinda morphed into that "future game".
She never did anything with it in KQ7 and MOE, its unclear when she heard about the idea again, and thought of what she would have done with it in 'hindsight', had she had the chance to make more games in the series (likely post MOE).
Perhaps Jane Jensen should've taken up the mantel of writing KQ7, 8, etc. She seemed to have a much more concrete vision for the series and where it should go and might've even been better continuity wise with the previous games--Remember she wrote all of the text and dialgue of KQ6 and quite a bit of it makes in-jokes about previous KQ games, for example the "Death Bogs of Tamir" death reference.
I've read in one of the old InterAction issues that Roberta wanted to hand off the series to another designer after KQ5 anyway as she felt she had run out of ideas. And Roberta didn't evn really have much to do with KQ7 outside of some basic story ideas (It says the game was written by Lorelei Shannon based on characters by Roberta Williams; It doesn't mention Roberta as the writer at all) and Roberta is credited as second producer and third on the list of KQ7's directors.
Quote from: Baggins on July 03, 2010, 09:56:29 PM
Mordack, "Mor" as in Moria, Mordor, Morgoth.
= Bad, Black, Evil.
Way worse than "Shadow".
I don't think Shadow when I hear Shadrack :p...
I think "Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednego" from the bible. Those who survived the fiery furnace.
Hmm, "Shadrack, Mordack, and Alhazred" is it a loose pun?
Huh. I've heard of that bible story before, but I never tried working Mordack and Alhazred into it for a pun...
Maybe it could act as foreshadowing, how they'll all survive... something fiery?
(Mordack was something fiery. Maybe
he survived...)
On a side note, Shadrack's nickname is "Shade" which would be a bit different than "Shadow". It would imply he is more ghost like.
I don't get the implication that he is more ghostlike when I hear the nickname shade. When I hear shade I get the same as shadow only a bit more elusive.
Well, it really just depends on what definition of shade was actually intended, the mythological definition of Shade (a supernatural being), or the "blocking of light" or a combination of the above. There probably is a touch of reference to Darkness and "black cloak" (that was probably Eluki bes shahar's intention when she wrote the KQ6 novel).
Actually Shade doesn't particularly scare me in the usual definition of the term. Its a nice cool place to hide, in sweltering weatherl. ;) :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: Unless of courses its 100 degrees in the shade, then its just horrible....