I mean I love him and all. KQ is my favorite game. But let's face it, he was basically dust in kq 8. I wonder how he can not have a stroke in 9.
Didn't we used to have a thread like this BCD? (Before the Cease and Desist.) I think I remember someone saying he was in his early to mid fifties, like 53 or 54 or something.
That would make him barely of age when he had his children. Even then that's a stretch.
It depends on how old he was when he had kids and all. If he was 30 when they were born, and the kids are 20 now, that would put him at 50...so it's entirely possible :)
Quote from: The Hero on July 04, 2010, 07:41:45 PM
That would make him barely of age when he had his children. Even then that's a stretch.
Keep in mind that "of age" might not be the same thing there as it is here. :P Marriage trends have varied greatly over the ages. :P In Imperial Rome, it was quite common for girls of scarcely 14 to marry and their partners were usually around two years older than they. :P
KQ1 took place a few days after his 19th birthday. Given that a ''few years'' had passed between KQ1 and KQ2 he was probably 21. A year or two later Alexander and Rosella were born, so he was 23 or 24.
KQ6/7 took place in the 25th year his reign, making him 44.
So he's only around 44 or 45.
Sounds about right. :yes:
It really depends on the timeline. His age isn't given in the series, other than a single reference in the KQ7 hintbook, which states he was 19 at the time of KQ1, and that his birthday was a few days before KQ1. We also know from KQ1 SCI (supported by KQV Hintbook), that the game takes place during the late spring.
Initially KQ2 was implied to take place 1 year after KQ1 in the KQ2 manual.
There are essentially two (possibly more) timelines that arose out of the official material, due to retcons and what not. In the original timeline (following the KQ4 manual) , but partially ignored the KQ2 manual (KQ2 was moved to 3 years after KQ1), Graham was about 44 by the time of KQ7, 25 years after KQ1. The King's Quest Companion also places KQ6/7 at 25 years after KQ1.
Following Roberta's retcon (KQ5 Manual, and InterAction Fall 1992), which ignores the KQ4 manual (KQ2 was moved to about six years after KQ1), he turns out to be 47 during KQ7, 27 years after KQ1 (which ignores the King's Quest Companion placing KQ7 at 25 years after KQ1).
There is at least one account in About KQV (KQV ingame-menu), that places KQ3 twenty years after KQ2 (which simply doesn't fit the second timeline). It does seem to fit onto the original timeline (following KQ4 manual), where KQ3 is 23 years after KQ1, and KW2 is 20 years before KQ6 (3 years after KQ1) .
There was no specific date for MOE, according to Mark Seibert "Graham was now old", depending on the cutscenes he looks to be between 50 (intro) and 70 years old (final cutscene). His hair is extremely light grey, nearly white in the various places you see him, including his painting.
TSL's initial timeline has MOE set 24 years after KQ1 (they have KQ2 at 1 year after KQ1), so he would be essentially 42 during KQ7, and 43 in MOE (if they followed the KQ7 Hintbook age), however said timeline pretty much ingnored every manual of the series, and official source.
Quote from: Baggins on July 05, 2010, 03:29:06 AM
It really depends on the timeline. His age isn't given in the series, other than a single reference in the KQ7 hintbook, which states he was 19 at the time of KQ1, and that his birthday was a few days before KQ1. We also know from KQ1 SCI (supported by KQV Hintbook), that the game takes place during the late spring.
Initially KQ2 was implied to take place 1 year after KQ1 in the KQ2 manual.
There are essentially two (possibly more) timelines that arose out of the official material, due to retcons and what not. In the original timeline (following the KQ4 manual) , but partially ignored the KQ2 manual (KQ2 was moved to 3 years after KQ1), Graham was about 44 by the time of KQ7, 25 years after KQ1. The King's Quest Companion also places KQ6/7 at 25 years after KQ1.
Following Roberta's retcon (KQ5 Manual, and InterAction Fall 1992), which ignores the KQ4 manual (KQ2 was moved to about six years after KQ1), he turns out to be 47 during KQ7, 27 years after KQ1 (which ignores the King's Quest Companion placing KQ7 at 25 years after KQ1).
There is at least one account in About KQV (KQV ingame-menu), that places KQ3 twenty years after KQ2 (which simply doesn't fit the second timeline). It does seem to fit onto the original timeline (following KQ4 manual), where KQ3 is 23 years after KQ1, and KW2 is 20 years before KQ6 (3 years after KQ1) .
There was no specific date for MOE, according to Mark Seibert "Graham was now old", depending on the cutscenes he looks to be between 50 (intro) and 70 years old (final cutscene). His hair is extremely light grey, nearly white in the various places you see him, including his painting.
TSL's initial timeline has MOE set 24 years after KQ1 (they have KQ2 at 1 year after KQ1), so he would be essentially 42 during KQ7, and 43 in MOE (if they followed the KQ7 Hintbook age), however said timeline pretty much ingnored every manual of the series, and official source.
It seems that the majority of official sources however point to him being somewhere between 44 and somewhere in his 50s.
I personally myself feel Graham is between 44 and 53. I don't think he's ''old'' as Seibert said and I think MoE went through too many revisions in and of itself to be considered 'the truth.' I mean between the intro and into the end cutscenes he looks vastly different as you said in age--50 and 70 is a pretty big difference. The game, because of it's crazy development and cuts, is a very messed up game---Basically a rushed out version of what we might've gotten.
(I've read Roberta wanted to keep holding back and work out MoE but the new management of Sierra threatened her with litigation and she handed it over to them prematurely, so technically it wasn't a finished product, at least, not in the eyes of it's designer. So therefore I don't take it it into account, besides, a lot of MoE violates stuff clearly laid down in the previous games)
Hair going grey can happen very early, for example an uncle of mine's hair was all dark grey (like Graham in KQ4) by his early 30s; Today, in his late 40s, it's snow white.
QuoteHair going grey can happen very early, for example an uncle of mine's hair was all dark grey (like Graham in KQ4) by his early 30s; Today, in his late 40s, it's snow white.
You're example is still listing about 20 years time, for a change in hair color. We know with Graham his hair was still fairly dark during KQ6 era (with dark grey highlights), and he was in his mid to late 40's then.
While there are rare ways for hair to turn white instantly (like practically over night) due to extreme trauma and terror. We haven't heard of any such event happening between KQ6 and MOE.
As for how many days, weeks, months, etc, passed between the start of MOE, and the end who knows, ;). Maybe plenty of time for Graham to age a decade or two :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:. Anycase your discussion of what is and isn't canon is kinda irrelevent. There are alot of issues where the games weren't too consistent with each other in relationship to geography, the shape of the castle, the size and scope of Daventry etc (the Ancient Well wasn't next to the Door into Mountain back in KQ1, :p), and the shapes of the continents. Its one of the reasons Peter Spear was forced to write up the retcon, about the world always being in flux.
If your problem was with the Dimension of Death, sorry to burst your bubble, it always was Roberta's idea to have it being another place other than the Underworld of KQ6. It would have been in no matter what version was released.
I can't think of anything else that truly violates previous King's Quests directly story wise. Why Roberta and the staff chose to give everyone Ye Olde English, we may never know. But I don't think that design decision has anything to do with the game being released "too early" (they could have gotten anyone to do the voice, and chosen any style).
Actually what was really hit by being released early, was puzzles being removed, certain characters being removed, a couple of levels being cut. But that really isn't something that would have "changed" what we did get, as far as the story, or the voice overs. It originally would have been the same story, just a bit longer. The world geography itself is pretty much what they had settled on (they intended the castle to be on the mountain for example). They wanted combat from the very beginning, see InterAction magazine (to emulate N64 games).
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/World_of_Daventry
Check out the various charts and maps.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Kingdom_of_Daventry
Again check out the maps.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Sovereignty_of_Serenia
Notice that the bird's eye of Serenia, doesn't quite match up with what you see when your walking through the land. Also check out the locations of Mordack's island in relation to Harpy Island. For that matter Serenai never really matched up with the original Serenia (Wizard and the Princess), as one is in the middle of the desert, and the other is outside the desert. King's Quest Companion (Second Edition) even states that the village (from Wizards) is the same as the Towne from KQ5, or its at least implied. If they are the same, I guess the woods grew in between the time of Wizards and KQ5 (Priscilla is queen at the time of KQ5).
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Castle_Daventry
Pictures aren't complete, still needs some shots from KQ1 original and remake and KQ3. But I've tried to be complete on discussing the various versions. Check out the behind the scenes section. There is even a picture from the King's Quest Companion (set post-KQ6, has Cassima visiting the castle), that supports the layout of the Throne Room in MOE.
Speaking of games being released early, did you know that alot of the ideas and backstories they wanted to include in KQ7 ended up having to be cut as well? We never got the version Roberta truly wanted to release. Due to time and budget restraints. This was according to the King's Quest Companion/Authorized Guide to KQ7. However, they did release some of the design documents into those guides, and another version properly edited into backstory summery in the KQ7 Official Hintbook by Lorelei Shannon.
Also did you know that in some scenes in KQ7, characters have four fingers, other times they have five? :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
Quotemean between the intro and into the end cutscenes he looks vastly different as you said in age--50 and 70 is a pretty big difference.
So actually I went back and looked at the cutscenes, actually its not as drastically different as I remembered. It actually looks like they used the same models for both cutscenes. The difference is you see his right side (slightly angled from behind) in intro, and from the direct front in the final cutscene. He has almost completely white hair in both. (and the in-game painting) There might be a touch of a stache in the intro, but its unclear, since you really only see the side and back of his head (it might just be a poorly modeled lip, or graphical artifact). There is no stache visible in the final cutscene.
What's freaky is he seems his right arm is fairly muscular and his left is frail and shriveled above the elbow. Although that seems to be because of the fact that you see his right arm from the side, looking directly at his billowing sleave, which gives it a more muscular appearance (his right arm you are looking at straight on). You never actually see his whole left arm in the intro (since you see only the right side of his body in most shots). He seems overall frail around his mid-section in the ending (you don't get to see his mid-section in the intro, to make a fair comparison).
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080110155716/kingsquest/images/1/1b/GrahamMoE.JPG)
Stone version graham looks tortured with deep wrinkles showing across his face. But he really doesn't show that many wrinkles in his flesh form (and the resolution is poor). So its possible the wrinkles are probably something caused by the spell itself, giving the victims the appearance of craggy stone. The craggy wrinkled appearance seems to be shared among other the victims (including Sarah and the Daventry Official), so not an indication of age.
Based on his appearance, and comparing both, I would say mid 50's to 60 (still old), but not really 70ish. Getting up their in fraility but not quite in need of geriatrics yet. Based on See No Weevil, 78 is actually nearing the final years of one's life (based on evidence of Master Rokail, if he wasn't beating the average lifespan so to speak). Graham doesn't look like he is anywhere near that bad off (he has certainly retained his mental facilities).
I think the painting is supposed to represent a more detailed version of his appearance in MOE point of time, extremely white hair, a few crows feet, wrinkles in his forehead, but overall healthy. If you look at his face in the final cutscene, its not far off as far as chin structure, and cheeks (albeit lower resolution).
On a related note if you go back and look at the intro to KQ6, it looks pretty bad by today's standards as well. :p... The characters have warped physical features. Alexander has shriveled palseyed hands. It looks better though, since it actually has better close ups to the characters within a few inches. MOE has better resolution though (but most views are a couple of feet from the characters, but never gives you facial closeups).
in tsl he has shaved off a few years maybe the fruit from kq4 keeps him young?
Well it would mean he has gotten old, then grew young again, LOL. But ya TSL timeline is another bag of fish compared to the official ones really. He's apparently younger than he was in the official timelines, early 40's instead of mid to late 40's. So no reason to "keep him young" really. It's ignoring the fact that Graham was old. Early 40's really isn't that old (its midlife, when compared Master Rokail being 78 years old). Either that or Master Rokaill is exceptionally Ancient.
QuoteI don't think he's ''old'' as Seibert said and I think MoE went through too many revisions in and of itself to be considered 'the truth.'
Seibert's discussion that "Graham was now old" was actually him stating what he and Roberta Williams had discussed on the issue of his age during the game's development. So ya they intended him to be "old". That has nothing to do with "how early or late" they released the game :p... its a non sequiter. If anything if they had more time to put in more details he would have ended up looking more like he was "old" beyond just the white hair. Here is the full quote;
QuoteI'm sure we had this conversation. Since Graham is still around, it can't be too long of a period of time, but I don't think we ever gave it an exact time frame – I think we merely discussed it in terms of "Graham is now old."
-Mark Seibert, March 11, 2006.
Notice he points out he's old, but not so old that he died ("Since Graham is still around..."). Either this means Graham is going to see his maker very very soon (if you argue he's old in his 50-60's), or he was even older in MOE (and will soon die not long after it). :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
...and he ends up being tortured in Hell for all eternity :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:;
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100625105353/kingsquest/images/7/73/Graham_in_Hell.jpg)
...and King Edward of Daventry ended up being pickled in a vat of alcohol, heh heh.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100705211138/kingsquest/images/9/91/EdwardPickled.jpg)
Quote from: Baggins on July 05, 2010, 02:26:30 PM
Well it would mean he has gotten old, then grew young again, LOL. But ya TSL timeline is another bag of fish compared to the official ones really. He's apparently younger than he was in the official timelines, early 40's instead of mid to late 40's. So no reason to "keep him young" really. It's ignoring the fact that Graham was old. Early 40's really isn't that old (its midlife, when compared Master Rokail being 78 years old). Either that or Master Rokaill is exceptionally Ancient.
QuoteI don't think he's ''old'' as Seibert said and I think MoE went through too many revisions in and of itself to be considered 'the truth.'
Seibert's discussion that "Graham was now old" was actually him stating what he and Roberta Williams had discussed on the issue of his age during the game's development. So ya they intended him to be "old". That has nothing to do with "how early or late" they released the game :p... its a non sequiter. If anything if they had more time to put in more details he would have ended up looking more like he was "old" beyond just the white hair. Here is the full quote;
QuoteI'm sure we had this conversation. Since Graham is still around, it can't be too long of a period of time, but I don't think we ever gave it an exact time frame – I think we merely discussed it in terms of "Graham is now old."
-Mark Seibert, March 11, 2006.
Notice he points out he's old, but not so old that he died ("Since Graham is still around..."). Either this means Graham is going to see his maker very very soon (if you argue he's old in his 50-60's), or he was even older in MOE (and will soon die not long after it). :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
...and he ends up being tortured in Hell for all eternity :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:;
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100625105353/kingsquest/images/7/73/Graham_in_Hell.jpg)
...and King Edward of Daventry ended up being pickled in a vat of alcohol, heh heh.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100705211138/kingsquest/images/9/91/EdwardPickled.jpg)
To be fair, Graham is described as being "Old" in the intro to King's Quest IV as well.
I'll put it this way...I don't think even if you take MoE into account that Graham is too old for another adventure. But personally I don't view MoE as part of my own version of the KQ canon. It's just too different. It's a good game but a KQ game in name only.
Personal canon, is another name for fan fiction :) Just as irrelevent on a discussion of what the designers actually intended.
I'm reminded of Peter Spear essentially using his soap box of the King's Quest Companion (4E)/Authorized KQ7 Guide to officially insert what must have been his 'personal canon' that KQ7 was a hoax and a work a fiction, and 'didn't happen' through the use of Derek Karlavaegen, since it didn't fit his view of what a King's Quest Game was. Its really seems to be implied because its far to cartoony, and unrealistic compared to previous games. Only difference, you don't have an official venue to insert your opinion heh heh. Yes, that's something about the KQC, that irks me.
Yes, if mid 40's are "old" in Daventry, and we are told that the excitement of his son's return was too much for his old heart, then on average, the life span in Daventry mustn't be very long. Master Rokaill was just exceptionally ancient, heh heh. Which also means that Mark Seibert, Roberta, et al, must not have seen Graham as living much longer after MOE going by his comment. So he's going die around sixtiesh.
Ok Baggins... I'm curious.... you seem to know a great deal about KQ and clearly have your views and opinions... do you view the KQC as canon? I ask because you tend to bounce back and forth between referencing it as canon and discounting it as unofficial (depending on who you are speaking to and what the topic is).
I suppose I consider it and other licensed products essentially official, but secondary, sometimes parallel to the games. I don't really like to use canon, since it was never used by the teams themselves though (at least I've never read Roberta use the term), there are plenty of "official" and "authorized" terms bandied about by Sierra though. The games are basically primary (so I'm mildly annoyed about Peter Spear's account that his is the "real story", but understand its the only way he could possibly tell the story he wanted to tell). The licensed material to quote InterAction and others shed more light on the world. The in-house official hint guides are probably secondary as well (although since some are written by Roberta or head designers (Lorelei Shannon) themselves those could be seen as primary). Manuals may be secondary level to the games as well, since they aren't necessarilly referenced themselves or consistent with the games (although I personally tend to side with them as primary).
I would say probably something similar to the lines of the Star Wars style of canon, or "levels of canon". There is a rather grey area with them. Some parts maybe "very canon" other parts not so much. Its not my job to make that kind of judgement (as I didn't write them, and I don't know what parts came from the authors, and what parts came from Sierra). So I try to remain neutral about them (but will point out where they diverge from each other).
But on the other hand the games were not really consistent with each other, so trying to judge if one game is more valid than other is somewhat silly :). ...as is argueing over which has the most accurate portrayal of the world. As you know Peter Spear sidestepped that issue entirely by adding the 'retcon' that the world is always in flux. But again I try to point out where they might not be consistent, if I notice an inconsistency.
KQ1 and KQ1 SCI, I'd consider parallel personally (I don't mean in the "multiverse" definition, but rather as two sides to the same coin). As Roberta and others at sierra have pointed out they have had others, 'purists', that essentially argued against "remakes" seeing it similar to coloring a black and white film. While there were others that preferred the remakes. Sierra actually stopped making remakes because of this phenomena (because more people preferred the "classics" and didn't want them touched up). Roberta has been somehwat wishy washy on her own opinions on which she preferred, but as I mentioned before seems to have sided more to the Remake, in some interviews. I wouldn't be surprised if there are probably some where she sides more on the original, but I can't think of any at the moment. However, since she doesn't really "dwell on the past", its really hard to tell where her stance lays at any given time (its possible she didn't really know either, LOL, she may have just been feeding the interviewers what they wanted to hear, or what the company wanted her to say, since she was having to "advertise" as much as explain). I think at least the later owners of the company after she was gone did (with the 2006 compilation) that completely removed the original from the official releases.
Truth be told, I respect the opinion of 'purists' those who completely ignore the spinoff licensed material. The spinnoff material is not essential to own to enjoy King's Quest, and they aren't essential to understanding the world (you learn enough just by playing the games). There are probably different levels of purism, some ignore the non-essential stuff like the King's Questions and some cases even the manuals. Althought the latter (ignoring the manuals) may be border-line "fanon" (personal canon).
I wouldn't count ignoring an entire game of the series such as KQ7, or MOE, as a type of "purism". That is something entirely different (and another aspect of KQ7:Authorized Guide/KQC that annoys me).
Here is good example's of my personal thoughts on individual aspects of King's Quest. I tend to side more to Roberta's view that Daventry takes place on Earth, during our distant past (its been physically published and appears in all the games, manuls, etc). I'm mildly annoyed with Peter Spear's parallel universe viewpoint. Although is is primarily more because he did in such a way that he claimed Roberta was "mistaken" and that he/Derek had given him the 'real' account, without incorporating her version in a more seamless fasion. Granted on some level his version is still 'official' and was allowed or 'grandfathered' in by Sierra employees (whoever they were specifically) to some degree (to what extent is anybody's guess). Yes, we can admit that on some level even Roberta acknowledged the books (at least the 1st and 3rd editions), although she continued keep her own view separate, and maintained it throughout the games (including MOE).
However, for another example, I tend to side towards the idea that Hagatha is the sister of Mannan and Mordack, since it has been published in an in-house sierra game source at least once, "King's Questions". Although we know Roberta claims that it was never her intent and views them as separate, that is her opinion from non-published message board comment, so isn't quite as valid as a source as say an interview or published article. But also really just establishes that the universe was developed by more than just her. It also explains why Hagatha is not mentioned in KQ5 in relation to Mordack (and if she is mentioned, in the manual or about screen there is nothing written that would connect the villains). It's obvious why Manannan and Hagatha were never connected KQ3 (the original KQC was published after KQ4, and the H/M/M triad was published in the 2nd Edition after KQ5). Let's face it, there isn't much to know about her, without expanded material from the KQC 'filling in' some of the gaps. Without the KQC, you can sum up her story as; 1. Is an old hag with poor eyesight, bad teeth, and wart covered face. 2. lives in a cave 3. is a cannibal, and likes to scatter her victims bones around said cave, and outside the cave. 4. Kidnapped Valanice due to Jealousy and locked her in a tower. 5. Stole a magical nightengale. 6. Graham was powerless to defeat her, and she was left behind in Kolyma. Peter Spear went a long ways to make her more interesting in comparison, and none of the additions to the character contradicts any details within the games themselves. However, I respect the opinion of anyone who sides with Roberta's stance on the issue (and undertand that it supports their form of "purism").
For an example from the novels, we have a case in Kingdom of Sorrow, where Alexander may be implied to be older than Rosella, and not a twin. Well of course, the games take precedence, they state emphatically that they are twins. But the book series as a whole doesn't necessarily "contradict" the rest of the game series in any major way, and since they are licensed, I consider them 'official', probably overall secondary, but semi-equal to the games. A quote in InterAction seems to support this stance, by stating that the novels are another way to experience King's Quest, and a new way to follow the characters of the world. If fans want to completely ignore the novels, that's their choice, and I respect it :) (I understand how it as a licensed product could fit outside of a purist mentality).
So I suppose you could say I have a kind of moderate, middle-of-the-road view, I tend to stick with what is the most consistent. I tend to consider the games (and their manuals) the main guide to the series (yes that means MOE). So what is said in a game (and its related materials) would likely take precedence over KQC (if a major conflict exists). I also enjoy official licensed material as something that expands the world, explaining things beyond the scope of the games. I consider both versions of KQ1 equally valid takes on the same story, that both can enlighten aspects of the world, that you wouldn't know, if you only played one or the other. Finally I acknowledge that not every aspect of every source is necessarily, consistent with any other source (I will point out where the discrepencies exist).
On a related note, the above had an interesting effect on the licensed material, Peter Spear's stuff follows the path of the original KQ1, and the novels actually references KQ1 SCI more, moat monsters, for example. However there is some possible overlap in the novels which may reference the original (i.e. the descriptions of the castle hallways leading to the throne room). There may be one or two obscure references to the companion within See No Weevil ("eastern continent", and "Great Sea"), although they may just be generic creations of the authors.
In anycase, I hope that explanation helps you understand where I'm coming from, when I get into a discussion?
For the sake of expanding my fanon (which itself breaks off from the canon, but that's kind of obvious) I usually use any sort of details from the Companion (well, from the KQ Omnipedia that were from the KQC). I feel that it is a great tool to help expand the story. However, since I've never read nor even owned a copy of the KQC, my fanon is probably more driven by the events in the games.
As for the Multiverse/past-Earth conflict, I think that Daventry being in another dimension is a cool idea. But, like you said, if I were to do something that was based solely off of the games, there would be no real reason for that.
I've always called Hagatha Manannan and Mordack's sister, at least since I learned that's what some sources say. It helps move the overall story forward, I think.
I certainly think that KQVII and MoE happened, for the sole reasons that they were games, which of course the highest level of canon. I don't think that it's fair to retcon a whole game out of existence.
Quote from: I_am_so_nifty on July 06, 2010, 07:37:36 AM
I've always called Hagatha Manannan and Mordack's brother, at least since I learned that's what some sources say. It helps move the overall story forward, I think.
Ouch, Nifty. I mean, I know she's no looker, but still. ;)
Oops. Well, I'm glad that I have an extra pair of eyes to help.
What happened to the poor comma.
Seriously, I'm actually conflicted on the parallel vs past-Earth issue. On one hand ya I think Peter Spear's account is much deeper (than Roberta's account), and is a nice nod towards classic multiversal fantasy like the Chronicals of Narnia. His version of the world is more detailed, more dramatic, and has more cohesive (and consistent) nature about it in many ways. On the other hand it bothers me that he completely ignored Roberta's intent. They both are good ideas, Roberta's was more to fit into the whole "once upon a time" fairy tale vibe, which in and of itself is very cool (for those of us who feel nostalgic about the stories we grew up on). I'm sure Peter Spear could have done his story in a better a way, to avoid the whole "Roberta was wrong" vibe. The one exception is kinda had to do the "Roberta was originally right", for the original KQ1 story (ignoring the remake), to avoid rewriting the story completely, and undermining his own mythology :p... So Roberta is somewhat to blame on that issue. He also had to do it to cover his own butt, on why chapters based on production documents differed from the released version of the game :p (KQ6), in which case its also to say that other game designers share some of the blame. Otherwise the continuity between the two have been even worse with no explanation.
I suppose both could be "true", but only if the people withdrew not only across space, but also through time. That is, if they withdrew into earth's past. Thus some accounts are from across the boundaries of space (Eye between the World), while others represent the tales as they were passed from our ancestors onto us from the past (a causal loop, grandfather paradox if you will). Roberta represents an the individual who has been "dreaming" about the world, and also changing it with her dreams, and then creating games based of of her dreams. But she has somehow gotten access to some of the ancient tomes telling about the secret earth history, and has reprinted them for her audience.
On a side note I've come accross an interesting fact. In the KQ5 novel his version mentions Cedric being "turned to stone" during the battle with Mordack. In the PC version of the game, he is just hit with a blast of magic, but it isn't really described what happened to him. In KQ5 for the NES, Cedric it is said that Cedric was turned to stone. Did Konami, reference the King's Quest Companion? ...or did Peter Spear gain access to a prototype script for KQ5 when he was writing up the book? Anyone know the dates when each was released?
Hmm, can anyone check on this in KQ2 novel, did Graham enter the cave while Hagatha was in, or did he sneak in when she was away? Cause that would be another example where other published material has differed. Most of the later summaries do state he snuck into the cave when she was there, plus I think you get more points if get the nightengale while she is there.
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 01:50:44 AM
Personal canon, is another name for fan fiction :) Just as irrelevent on a discussion of what the designers actually intended.
I'm reminded of Peter Spear essentially using his soap box of the King's Quest Companion (4E)/Authorized KQ7 Guide to officially insert what must have been his 'personal canon' that KQ7 was a hoax and a work a fiction, and 'didn't happen' through the use of Derek Karlavaegen, since it didn't fit his view of what a King's Quest Game was. Its really seems to be implied because its far to cartoony, and unrealistic compared to previous games. Only difference, you don't have an official venue to insert your opinion heh heh. Yes, that's something about the KQC, that irks me.
Yes, if mid 40's are "old" in Daventry, and we are told that the excitement of his son's return was too much for his old heart, then on average, the life span in Daventry mustn't be very long. Master Rokaill was just exceptionally ancient, heh heh. Which also means that Mark Seibert, Roberta, et al, must not have seen Graham as living much longer after MOE going by his comment. So he's going die around sixtiesh.
Well as it's never officially stated in the game or manual that Graham is old, or even near death, I don't think we could make a judgement on his age based off a comment by Mark Seibert ten years after the game came out.
And as for the novels, I don't think they really fit Roberta's or anyone else's vision of Daventry/Graham except for the authors. They're basically licensed fan fiction in and of themselves and Roberta only reviewed them after the fact, not having really any hand in their creation, and besides they differ from the games and main sources in many ways (for example Graham is blonde, Daventry can go bankrupt even though it has an endless chest, Valanice coming to Daventry before she married Graham and having her hand maiden in Daventry from when she was a child, etc--Things that contradict the games and established sources).
And KQ4 itself calls Graham ''old'', yet he is still fit enough a year later to go on a dangerous adventure. I don't think personally that he's near death or even ''old'' as we would call old--As in, enfeebled. I don't think he's anywhere near for example the state Edward was in at the start of KQ1.
Yes, the novels are filled with some issues, I do agree with this. It is however more than "fan fiction" in as much that it was published through sierra licensing, and was published by Berkley with Sierra logo, emblazened on the cover. I've already said that its essentially of second level status however. So I respect your opinion to ignore it, but it is outside the realm of what defines "fan fiction". The age of Rokaill isn't really a matter anyways, since the book says he's pratically ancient ;), older than old. Unfortunately are plenty of mistakes in the manuals and between the games as well, and those are essentially primary sources :p... For example, in the KQ4 manual, the twins are born, but Alexander is never actually "abducted", and it says they lived a peaceful life at least for a while. It then jumps to Rosella's abducted, and it mentions she was rescued (but doesn't say who rescued her). Then it just jumps to Graham about to send his adventure's cap to his children. So... :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
The KQ5 issue is explained in the manuals. You know that right? We still don't have explanation of why Graham is portrayed much older than he was in KQ6 though, with his hair being nearly white, and being far more thin than he appeared in previous games, and that gravely Ye Olde Englishe voice :p. Mark Seibert's comment was at least his explanation. Which doesn't require us to go through hurdles to explain it or "ignore" it.
The fact that you choose to ignore it, makes our arguement rather pointless (since you will ignore it no matter what was said, or even if I found other evidence). I did find possible evidence in InterAction that implies they had originally intended to the story to take place 10-20 years after earlier games, but its from a totally different version of the story (so is even less reliable). Basically that the curse occured when he was a child, and he grew up alone and on his 20th birthday went on the journey to reforge the mask and save Daventry. Completely different.
The fact of the matter is TSL still makes him look younger than he did in MOE.
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 12:11:19 PM
The KQ5 issue is explained in the manuals. You know that right? We still don't have explanation of why Graham is portrayed much older than he was in KQ6 though, with his hair being nearly white, and being far more thin than he appeared in previous games, and that gravely Ye Olde Englishe voice :p. Mark Seibert's comment was at least his explanation. Which doesn't require us to go through hurdles to explain it or "ignore" it.
The fact that you choose to ignore it, makes our arguement rather pointless (since you will ignore it no matter what was said, or even if I found other evidence). I did find possible evidence in InterAction that implies they had originally intended to the story to take place 10-20 years after earlier games, but its from a totally different version of the story (so is even less reliable). Basically that the curse occured when he was a child, and he grew up alone and on his 20th birthday went on the journey to reforge the mask and save Daventry. Completely different.
The fact of the matter is TSL still makes him look younger than he did in MOE.
I don't remember anything about Graham's age in the KQ5 manual, just a recounting of the previous games, and in the Hint Book it describes him as an "older man but very stout." And the Olde English in the game itself contradicts everything we've heard the characters speak in the previous games.
I choose to ignore it because the creators didn't seem to have any real true sense of continuity in any of the games, be it plotlines, characters or otherwise--Some sources contradict others (For example, Roberta wasn't even aware of the idea of the Black Cloak Society outside of some vague early discussions with Jane Jensen and was unaware the idea made it into the final game and seemed even more unaware that the idea was elaborated on in the KQC, or the idea that Hagatha is Mordack and Mananann's sister). When you have a continuity as loose as KQ's, and when things aren't stated outright in the games itself than I feel fans came make up their own minds.
If there was ever a clear sense of continuity and whatnot stated in the games or any grand vision the argument might have more grounds. There seems to be many conflicting visions as to KQ--Roberta's, Jane Jensen's, Peter Spear's and finally Mark Seibert. I guess it really all depends on who you believe when it comes to KQ continuity and other issues.
And the early InterAction article, which I've also read, doesn't indicate when in the reign of King Graham that Connor was born--He might've been born a year after Alexander and Rosella, which would then make the ''twenty years later'' a year or so after KQ7. But as you said that was part of an early, discarded plot.
As for his hair getting white, that can happen pretty quickly; His hair was already fully gray by KQ4 and according to the official sources (since he was 44 at the time of KQ6) he was only 43 years old when KQ4 occurred, and by KQ6 (just a year and a half exactly after KQ4--from dialog in KQ6) his hair was already light gray:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080110155842/kingsquest/images/8/8e/Graham.png)
The portrait of Graham in MoE doesn't look that much older than his KQ6 portrait, outside of the white hair, which says to me that it's not that much after--Maybe 5 years at most. His face isn't anymore lined, he doesn't look frail, and I doubt Daventry would be using a 20 year old portrait of the King--Graham doesn't seem that vain.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080110155945/kingsquest/images/c/c1/GrahampaintingMoE.JPG)
If you take the KQ6 Disc version portrait into account, Graham looks even younger: (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100701130742/kingsquest/images/2/26/GrahamKQ6.jpg)
From the King's Quest 5 Manual.
QuoteIn later years, King Graham's health began to fail, and the royal physicians were powerless to help him. Only a magical fruit from the faraway land of Tamir could bring about a cure and restore the health of Daventry's monarch. Graham's daughter, Princess Rosella, set off in pursuit of this healing magic for her father. On her journey, she performed many brave deeds, and had many great adventures.
With the King's health fully restored, and his family together once more, it was a happy and fulfilled Graham who set out for a walk in the forest one spring day almost a year since Rosella had returned from Tamir. The kingdom was peaceful and prosperous again, and the people were content. Birds were singing in the trees. It seemed an auspicious sign.
BTW, I've already brought up the the fact of hair color in KQ5 and 6, that its more or less a dark grey. But you probably missed that part of the discussion in your blind attempt to ignore things...
However, since you choose to ignore primary sources, I seriously can't be bothered with trying to discuss this situation with you. Its completely pointless...
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 02:16:39 PM
From the King's Quest 5 Manual.
QuoteIn later years, King Graham's health began to fail, and the royal physicians were powerless to help him. Only a magical fruit from the faraway land of Tamir could bring about a cure and restore the health of Daventry's monarch. Graham's daughter, Princess Rosella, set off in pursuit of this healing magic for her father. On her journey, she performed many brave deeds, and had many great adventures.
With the King's health fully restored, and his family together once more, it was a happy and fulfilled Graham who set out for a walk in the forest one spring day almost a year since Rosella had returned from Tamir. The kingdom was peaceful and prosperous again, and the people were content. Birds were singing in the trees. It seemed an auspicious sign.
However, since you choose to ignore primary sources, I seriously can't be bothered with trying to discuss this situation with you. Its completely pointless...
In KQ4 he's portrayed as having a sudden, unexpected heart attack, and in the KQC Valanice in telling the 'story' of KQ4 states she felt the excitement of having the two children returned might've been too much for him to bear--it does not mention any ongoing illness or ailment.
I believe the KQ5 manual is referring to the events of KQ4, since the very next sentence details Rosella's adventures to correct his failing health.
Of course its referring to KQ4, and his healing, and its relationship to KQ5. That was the point I mentioned it in the first place. Did you misread my original post...?
It explains he is fit, because the fruit completely healed him. So he was fit in KQ5 to go on his jaunt by the lake, just as his family was kidnapped.
As for heart attacks they are actually a symptom of other health issues, usually Coronary Artery Diseases, rather than the disease itself. People may look fit on the outside, but it requires poor circulation, clogged arteries etc, to actually have a heart attack. This is one of the reasons why heart attacks seldom go unoticed until they hit someone (because they are hidden). Heart attacks require something in the heart to be blocked. People can also have heart attacks due to birth defects, and those can go by unoticed as well. People don't just get "heart attacks due to surprise", but surprise can cause plaque in the arteries to dislodge, and cause the heart attack.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/HeartAttack/HeartAttack_WhatIs.html
But this something most people should already know, and I shouldn't have to get so technical....
*sighs* Can't we all just get along?
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 02:22:19 PM
Of course its referring to KQ4, and his healing, and its relationship to KQ5. That was the point I mentioned it in the first place did you misread my original post...
It explains he is fit, because the fruit completely healed him. So he was fit in KQ5.
As for heart attacks they are actually a symptom of other health issues, rather than the disease itself. People may look fit on the outside, but it requires poor circulation, clogged arteries etc, to actually have a heart attack. This is one of the reasons why heart attacks seldom go unoticed until they hit someone (because they are hidden). Heart attacks require something in the heart to be blocked. People can also have heart attacks due to birth defects, and those can go by unoticed as well.
But it doesn't mean he wasn't fit before hand, and he's not obese or heavyset in KQ4--In fact before he tosses the hat he looks to be fit, with the same stout, strongly built physique he has in KQ5.
And heart attacks can happen magically--This is a fantasy fairy tale series, remember, not a medically accurate edutainment game. They can be brought on by stress, and I imagine the sudden relief of near 18 years of missing his son along with his kingdom desolated and his daughter saved at the last minute from possibly being eaten by a dragon combined to give him his heart attack. I don't think it was a medically accurate event.
And Valanice in the KQC doesn't say anything along the lines of "Graham's health had been failing for months/years/weeks" before his heart attack or that he hadn't been well, in fact her only explanation is that it was probably the surprise of the sudden series of positive events. It doesn't indicate that physicians had been treating him for years for ill health.
You don't have to be physically unfit, overweight or obese to get a heart attack, many people who actually die of heart attacks appear outwardly healthy... It hits athletes every year, i.e. "athlete sudden death"... and most are around age 30, statistically :p... Heart attacks are really not a good indicator of age (nor really an indicator of physical health). Although most people who die of heart attacks are usually over age 35 or older.
Infact Valanice's explanation fits the classic descriptions of a real heart attack, set on by excitement. Nothing magical about it. Yes, they can be brought on stress, but that's because its dislodging the naturally occuring plaque that builds up over the course of a person's life. It can hit any time :p... There are aways to mininize said plaque buildup, however. Most people don't go through that kind of diet.
As for the whole "magical heart attack" seems to me you are one of those KQ2+ fanon types eh? Do you also ignore KQ2 as well?
I won't even take that one seriously... Only way I would take a magical heart attack theory seriously, is there was a source that emphatically said he died of a "magical heart attack". Sorry I'll stick to occam's razor if you please. It takes far less speculation to stick to the real world definition of a heart attack (without having to resort to making things up):p.
We are on completley different sides of the fan spectrum (apples vs oranges?)... it really is pointless for us to continue to this discussion. I'm going to say at this point i'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you.
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 02:37:43 PM
You don't have to be physically unfit, overweight or obese to get a heart attack, many people who actually die of heart attacks appear outwardly healthy... It hits athletes every year, i.e. "athlete sudden death"... and most are around age 30, statistically :p... Heart attacks are really not a good indicator of age. Although most people who die of heart attacks are usually over age 35 or older.
Infact Valanice's explanation fits the classic descriptions of a real heart attack, set on by excitement. Nothing magical about it. Yes, they can be brought on stress, but that's because its dislodging the naturally occuring plaque that builds up over the course of a person's life. It can hit any time :p...
As for the whole "magical heart attack" seems to me you are one of those KQ2+ fanon types eh?
I won't even take that one seriously... Only way I would take a magical heart attack theory seriously, is there was a source that emphatically said he died of a "magical heart attack". Sorry I'll stick to occam's razor if you please.
We are on completley different sides of the fan spectrum... it really is pointless for us to continue to this discussion. I'm going to say at this point i'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you.
Indeed, and I think seeing as we have a very uncemented canon in the KQ universe any interpretation is just as valid as the other. You have your interpretation, I have mine.
Remember, we're dealing with a series where Roberta, the creator of the KQ series, wasn't even aware of the existence of the Black Cloak Society in KQ6 and as far as she knew it wasn't mentioned in the game and was only a sketchy idea in the early design stages of KQ6. That says a lot about how much the game designers memory and opinions can be taken on as 'fact' these minute canon issues. If you take Roberta's POV, and go against the game, there is no BCS except in theory, for example.
Canon vs non-canon is always tricky when writing about someone else's work, especially when that work tends to be so inconsistent. Since there wasn't anything that was really set on stone, we wrote down our own timeline so that we could keep track of things. Of course, we probably tweaked it a bit to fit our story, but since those details are not really in the game, we just used them for some reference, we don't really change any of the stories pre-TSL.
There are in fact, bigger things we are adding to the canon that will surprise a few :) Age and years... not so important.
That said, our game begins when Rosella and Alex has just turned 21. I think we put Alexander at 19 in KQ6, so two years have passed between 6 and TSL.
We also have to keep in mind that a lot of times writers tend to forget things. I know it's sloppy, and I know it shouldn't be, but especially with a series that has passed through many writers, things tend to get lost. As a writer, you may write something that you don't give much thought at the moment, and then later it comes to bite you in the ass because fans apparently are paying more attention than you are :)
Anyways, you are the guys that remind us to keep on our toes about details!
Ya, the age 19 for KQ6 could actually conform to the KQC/KQ5(about screen)/KQ4 manual/KQ6 Hintbook timeline. The KQ6 = 25 years after KQ1, and KQ6 is 20 years after KQ2.
It doesn't work so well if one ignores the KQ4 manual and works from the KQ5 hintbook/Interaction Roberta article.
The real issue is when and what time they were born. Your original timeline had them born 3 years after KQ1, the KQ4 manual had them born 5 years after KQ1.
The Roberta Williams KQ5 Hintbook/InterAction, has them born about 7 years after KQ1, and about 18 in KQ6.
The only other particular issue, is what season they were born. KQ3/SNW had their birthday late summer/early autumn. You had their b-day in december.
With your permission once the game is released, I might try to see how your game will fit if set upon each timeline the idea of him being "21", and how that would compare to any internal dates mentioned in the game.
It would possibly place it about 26/27 years after KQ1, if no other facts contradict (on the KQ4 manual/KQC based timeline).
Quote from: TheReturnofDMD on July 06, 2010, 02:20:58 PM
In KQ4 he's portrayed as having a sudden, unexpected heart attack, and in the KQC Valanice in telling the 'story' of KQ4 states she felt the excitement of having the two children returned might've been too much for him to bear--it does not mention any ongoing illness or ailment.
I believe the KQ5 manual is referring to the events of KQ4, since the very next sentence details Rosella's adventures to correct his failing health.
You can have a heart attack at any age, the chance simply increases with age. His heart attack has absolutely no relevance discussions of his age.
Yep, that's what I've been trying to say, LOL.
I still don't agree that Graham is near death or anywhere even near death in MoE, both in terms of age and physically. He still seems both physically and mentally well.
You guys may have already covered this, but as for Graham's age, it's also possible that the magical fruit from KQIV rejuvenated Graham to the point that despite his age (whatever it may be LOL) he is physically much younger and more energetic. He may even live longer now....
I think that's a given.
The main arguement seems to be the placement of MOE in relationship to KQ7 though, was it 4-10 years away (making him somewhere between 50ish-60ish)? or not....and why did TSL place it within 1 year from KQ7 (making him 43)? It's all rather unclear. Plus why does Graham in TSL look younger than he appears in MoE. They could have at least made his hair whiter in TSL.
Plus something about certain fans wanting to ignore every thing in the previous games, that they don't like, and have their own version of events (plus possibly considering fan games information "canon" to the official stuff).
Quote from: Baggins on July 06, 2010, 05:45:16 PM
I think that's a given.
The main arguement seems to be the placement of MOE in relationship to KQ7 though, was it 4-10 years away (making him somewhere between 50ish-60ish)? or not....and why did TSL place it within 1 year from KQ7 (making him 43)? It's all rather unclear. Plus why does Graham in TSL look younger than he appears in MoE. They could have at least made his hair whiter in TSL.
Plus something about certain fans wanting to ignore every thing in the previous games, that they don't like, and have their own version of events (plus possibly considering fan games information "canon" to the official stuff).
Well having games be close together time frame wise is nothing new, really. King's Quest IV starts off exactly at the end of KQ3, meaning the same month/year.
King's Quests V, VI and VII all take place either in the same year or at least within a few months of each other. In KQ4, Alex and Rosella's 18th birthday is very close. In the KQ5 manual we're told a year has passed since KQ4, making them around 19.
About six months pass between KQ5 and Alexander reaching the Green Isles (Cassima says she's been locked in her room for nearly 6 months, probably right from the time she came home). Alexander would be 19 at this time.
Rosella is 19 years old, nearing 20, when KQ7 happens--So it could possibly be happening either within the three months that Alexander is at sea, or maybe a few months after. Since Alex is around 19 years and 6 months old at the time of KQ6, he's nearing 20, as would be Rosella. So KQ5, 6 and 7 all occur possibly within the same year.
So really King's Quests III, IV, V, VI and VIII all take place within about 2 years or a year and 8 months.
As to Graham looking younger in TSL, really the only thing that makes him look younger is his hair color (And even in the real medieval times people had hair dye, I don't see why in a fantasy world such as KQ they couldn't or wouldn't dye their hair) The Saxons who faced the Romans were reported to have dyed their hair and their beards red, green or even blue. Maybe Graham on a visit to the Green Isles had Shamir dye his hair a bit darker with magic. Who knows.
Graham's face in MOE due to the low res 3D isn't really that clear in the cut scenes, and his portrait in the Castle looks exactly the same as KQ6 except his hair is white, meaning he hasn't aged too much--They didn't go and age the portrait or create a new, much older appearing Portrait, and Valanice's portrait is EXACTLY the same as she appears in KQ6 except for the color of her outfit--She hasn't aged at all. Actually if anything, Valanice in TSL looks older than her portrait in MoE.
So really the only contradiction in terms of 'aging' is Graham's hair color.
And as for people ignoring things in games, for myself it's only one game--MoE--and that game will always be the ''red headed stepchild'' of the KQ series for many reasons. Everything else lines up pretty well.
It really all depends on your view of "Canon." For some people, it's all the games, plus all the books. For some it's all the games including the remakes plus the books. For other's it's purely games 1-7 and the books. Some people disregard the books totally and just go on the games, others take everything plus the statements of designers.
Personally I put just what we see in games I-VII on "A+" level canon, The KQC on "A" level canon, the game manuals (as other material sometimes contracts them) on "A-" level Canon, while MoE is "B" level canon and the novels are "B-" level, and finally the special features (such as the World of Daventry Q&A game) as "C" canon, which means their status as canon is disputable.
Ignoring an entire game is kind of rough. However, I suppose you are entitled to your opinion. I suggest that we implement that whole "agree to disagree" thing at this point.
Quote from: I_am_so_nifty on July 06, 2010, 08:09:31 PM
Ignoring an entire game is kind of rough. However, I suppose you are entitled to your opinion. I suggest that we implement that whole "agree to disagree" thing at this point.
I don't ignore it, it's just there's certain parts of it I find hard to 'digest' so to speak. It has it's place, but I think it as a 'distortion' of the truth of what really happened--Sort of how Peter Spear viewed KQ7 as being a total fabrication. Some elements of the game I like, some I in my own view of the continuity retcon to fit in closer with the other games.
QuoteAbout six months pass between KQ5 and Alexander reaching the Green Isles (Cassima says she's been locked in her room for nearly 6 months, probably right from the time she came home). Alexander would be 19 at this time.
This is actually where is there is an issue problem between the timing in the sources.
If the timeline follows the KQ4/King's Quest Companion/'About KQ5' (ingame KQ5 menu) route, there is actually a year between KQ5 and KQ6, from Spring of the previous year (24th anniversery), to spring/summer the following year (25 annniversery). KQ5 manual states that Graham was walking along the lake on a beautiful spring day when his family was killed, and KQ4's dateing pushes KQ3 to 20 years after KW2 . KQ2 is 3 years after KQ1, twins born 2 years later + 17 years (Alexander turns 18 within the same year, just after Summer), and KQ4 is within an hour (so KQ3 and KQ4 are set 23 years after KQ1), then according to KQ5/KQ7 manuals nearly a year to a year passes between KQ4 and KQ5, and that KQ5 is set in the spring so that would end up placing KQ5 24 years after KQ1, which would place it a year before KQ6 (if the KQ6 hintguide is taken into account). As mentioned King's Quest Companion, states that KQ7 takes place 25 years after KQ1, which fits into the KQ4 manual + KQ6 Hintbook's timing.
If the KQ6 hintguide/King's Quest Companion was ignored, to follow the six months ingame date, then it would place KQ6 at 24 years (so he would be 18ish), and KQ7 the following year (19).
If it ignores King's Quest Companion/KQ4 manual/About KQ5, but continues to follow the KQ6 Hintguide, and the KQ5 Hintguide(KQ2 is 5 years after KQ1, and twins born 6 years after KQ1), it places KQ5 in spring 25, and six months later (late summer?), then he's actually only 18, that would place KQ7, two years later, or 27 years after kq1.
Seriously, its anecdotal but my dad didn't age much between 44-70... His face physically looked about the same (he only gained a few grey hairs). So seriously there is no way to tell how long MOE takes place in relation to other games. The fact of the matter the date of MOE is completely unknown. I know other people that look like there older than methuselah but are only their 40s (years of smoking and hard drinking). So there is really no way to know for sure when it was intended to be slet. All we have is, "he is still around, so its not too long after blah blah".
Now, KQ2+ which has a scene set around the same time as MOE (just after his return from the Temple), 30 or so years after KQ2, has Graham look like's about as old as King Edward :p... But I don't take that seriously...
That's my gripe with the AGDI games is the portraits -- I mean, it's not a huge thing especially since they're free games. But every human is drawn in a way that makes them look much older. Too much emphasis put on facial lines. Take a look at every character (excepting, of course, Possum, who has no facial lines. Her voice makes her seem much older, but still... :P)
So, I would say, even if you wanted to take their timeline into account, you can't really judge anyways because everyone looks older as it is. Connor himself looks to be in his late 30s, I think.