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The Royal Archives => TSL General Archives => Topic started by: Cez on July 11, 2010, 02:01:20 AM

Title: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Cez on July 11, 2010, 02:01:20 AM
Please point everyone to this thread.

Hey all,

We know it. The episode is short and easy. We should not be giving excuses as to why it is short and easy, but let me do some explaining.

There were 2 chapters we were working on. Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. Chapter 1 was meant as a long winded introduction that was meant to welcome you back to the world of King's Quest and just get you completely set up. Chapter 2 throws all the gameplay and puzzles at you.

When we decided to break Chapter 1 and 2 into episodes, Chapter 1 naturally became Episode 1. Extending it towards sections of what is Episode 2 didn't feel right, so we made the call to make it its own episode. There was talks at the time of making it "longer" with more puzzles, etc, but if we did that, we probably wouldn't be releasing today.

As it stands, I love this episode because it doesn't only invite the old fans back, but for those that are curious about the world of King's Quest, and have never played the game before, or are casual gamers, is a very cinematic episode that they can experience quickly.

Now, once you get to Episode 2, we will break the linearity. You will have goals that you can meet in the order you want, and there will be a lot more characters to interact with.

I am very grateful that everyone has loved the episode. And I feel you when you say it's short. It was our one big concern. But fear not, Episode 2 will remedy much of this!

Thanks!
Cez
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Stratos on July 11, 2010, 06:03:59 AM
I thought it was a great episode to start the series off. Sure it was short but it did it's job well. I loved the little nods to the old games. Looking forward to playing the rest.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Sundoulos on July 11, 2010, 07:54:25 AM
The first episode was wonderful.   You all should feel very, very proud of what you've accomplished, though I'm sure that you don't need me to tell you that.

I'll admit that I was a little surprised and disappointed when the first chapter was over; but that's because I was captivated and really just wanted more!   It was great going back to the Land of the Green Isles, even if it was rainy.  Seeing Graham and all the other characters was truly like seeing or hearing from a group of long-lost friends!

Thank you so much for all of your hard work!
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Big C from Cauney island on July 11, 2010, 08:52:29 AM
Big C once again.

    I figured from previous postings that episode one was going to be the shortest of the chapters from the get go, really more of an introduction to new and old school gamers to get an idea of whats to come.  The fact that people say it was shorter just shows how much they crave for the rest!  I know in the forums it said that episode 1 was the shortest (1-2 hours), it might have been good to let interview sites know that it was more of an introduction, and expect the gameplay and length in episodes 2-5.  But absolutely make no mistake, phoenix has done justice to Kings quest in ways most people only dreamed.  If episode one is a GLIMPSE at whats to come, I can't imagine whats ahead!  So, to everyone giving their opinions, keep in mind exactly what Cez said above.  It was a design decision it sounds like.  I was absolutely shocked to play it, regardless of length, of course wanting more. Who wouldn't? Set the stage perfectly.  Absolutely unbelievable, Phoenix. Really, you guys did it.  And believe me, we all want more!

Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Gog on July 11, 2010, 09:31:34 AM
Is there any chance of publishing a release schedule?  I am busy downloading chapter 1, but is so excited that the legend is reborn again and that this could be the start again of the KQ series, the SQ and PQ series as well.  I do not mind paying for any of the coming chapters, as long as they keep coming!!
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: A.R.C.C. on July 11, 2010, 10:26:42 AM
Heh, I figured as much TBH.

What does bother me a little is the lack of danger and "sudden death" options. I'm just so used to everything trying to kill me in these games. This might be the first King's Quest in which it's impossible to die in the first 30 seconds (if not, it's definitely the first in which the first minute is safe).

It's really not putting the Fear of Unsaved Games into me.

All that aside, I love it. It's beautiful, colorful, emotional (for me), and true to the Quest. It's short, but very, very sweet.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: liggy002 on July 11, 2010, 11:48:27 AM
It's not impossible to die through the whole episode though.  If you try ignoring the narrator under at least one circumstance, you will die.  I'm not sure if there are any other ways to die.  I need to explore this more.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 11, 2010, 01:43:55 PM
Only one way to die in this episode, though I would have appreciated being able to fall out of the tree and get dizzy.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Animan on July 11, 2010, 02:15:06 PM
Short yes, very beautiful.

I do get that it is an intro and I'm sure many would have appreciated exploring non-necessary areas.

At least the game's introduction is launched.

Limited interaction and no fear of demise. Unless I missed how ...
<<I really wanted a classic-esque Sierra death scene ... like the spelling misadventures in KQ3>>

Lovely though and very nicely done. The narrator voice crosses somewhat into annoying ... just as it is supposed to. A fine line well balanced.

Thank you.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 11, 2010, 02:17:16 PM
Short yes, very beautiful.

I do get that it is an intro and I'm sure many would have appreciated exploring non-necessary areas.

At least the game's introduction is launched.

Limited interaction and no fear of demise. Unless I missed how ...
<<I really wanted a classic-esque Sierra death scene ... like the spelling misadventures in KQ3>>

Lovely though and very nicely done. The narrator voice crosses somewhat into annoying ... just as it is supposed to. A fine line well balanced.

Thank you.

Think of places where you could die as Alexander early on in KQ6.  One of those is still as dangerous as ever, though there's nobody pretending it's safe this time around.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Haids1987 on July 11, 2010, 04:57:43 PM
Thanks Cesar, well put. :yes:
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: HardCore74 on July 11, 2010, 09:50:11 PM
'Just finished episode 1.  Wow, what a flood of memories!  Thanks to all the devs on this.  It brought me back to the days of the trusty Tandy 1000EX - guiding Graham around Daventry in KQ1.  What a wonderful job you guys have done pulling us back into the adventure!  I can't wait for the next episode!  Well, I guess I'm off to reload the "previous" episodes.  I look forward to that feeling of "You can't do that here." >:(  ..."OK FINE highlight the next hint!" again... :)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Shmargin on July 12, 2010, 12:20:43 AM
OK, I feel compelled to respond to this because in the feedback section I said the game (http://"http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8742.0") was too short, and lacked puzzles.

In restrospect, and reading this post, what youre doing makes sense. BUT, I agree with someone else who said, maybe calling it a Prologue or Introduction would have made more sense.

BUT, hindsight is always 20/20 so, I know theres not much at this point to be done, other than saying Chapter 1 is really short, and Chapter 2 will have more puzzles.

Keep in mind everyone, length was really my only complaint, when it was over, I was a little shocked. But you guys completely out did yourselves on everything else. It was YEARS AND YEARS ago when i first came across this project, and never ever imagined it would come out, let alone come out this good.

The way the game handles camera work, with clicking around and having the camera follow, makes perfect sense, and completely modernizes the old school point and click adventure, in ways that other, larger companies, are barely keeping up with.

The developers should always remember, the reason people were disappointed by how short it was, is because they loved everything they saw and wanted more of it. If it was a bad game, no one would have complained about it being short. The game is beautiful and being well executed.

Phoenix Online Studios should be applauded by the fan community, and by larger companies that have failed to modernize the adventure genre as well as POS (lol at the acronym) has. Episode 1 plays and looks BETTER than most commercial endeavors out there, and if the series gets better as episodes progress, then this maybe the best modern adventure game out there.

I look forward to Episode 2 guys (and the briefly mentioned new adventure game coming soon), and remember, great job!
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 02:28:14 AM
I assumed going to the Sacred Isle, we would have to solve the Wall Puzzle like Alexander did, instead there are Stairs.  :P

The significance of a Test, is to let Mortals fall to their Deaths you know.  ::)

Puzzle 101  :suffer:
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 08:20:03 AM
I'd say a major purpose of the cliffs of logic previously was just copy protection since you needed the manual to solve the puzzles.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: B'rrr on July 12, 2010, 08:30:30 AM
yea, they weren't that hard, wasn't even a timelimit on it I think? just get your manual and look for it  :)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Darkbulb on July 12, 2010, 09:28:10 AM
I am very grateful that everyone has loved the episode. And I feel you when you say it's short. It was our one big

I fear that breaking it up in two parts and letting this first episode be the what you are exposed to was, sorry, a huge mistake. I've already had two people on Twitter telling me how it was a let-down to them and that they wanted a game and not an interactive movie.

I understand, sort of, your explanation but I still feel that releasing this 'intro' as a stand-alone episode was a huge mistake as it IS setting the tone of what to expect...and it did NOT give me a sense of a game with puzzles and without a very linear plot.

I posted my positive and negative feedback here: http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8806.0

Once again, thanks for the efforts in this fanbased sequel but it did not..sorry..make me too excited to see any upcoming episodes. I really wish you had not released just an 'intro'.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 09:34:01 AM
Releasing a smaller first episode also gives us a chance to discover and resolve surprise technical issues so we can be confident future episodes will run better.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Darkbulb on July 12, 2010, 09:42:08 AM
Releasing a smaller first episode also gives us a chance to discover and resolve surprise technical issues so we can be confident future episodes will run better.

I'm sorry but that's a horrible "reason" and I'm disappointed, if you are part of the development team to even hear you say that - and to state it as if it's fact.

a) There's a testing crew mentioned in the credits,
b) If need for more diverse testing increase that crew. I'm sure there would be an army of people willing to do so,
c) Releasing something as finished in order to gather more info on how it runs is never a good/feasible idea regardless of if it's free or commercial (and I've worked on a number of freeware initiatives).
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 09:48:08 AM
I didn't say that was part of the reason for the shorter release, just that it's been nice to have a short episode to be working with.

And no matter how much testing you do on a PC-based game, when you release it you will encounter scenarios that you never could have possibly tested for.

Personally I would have liked more playtime and more puzzles as well, but I know that's coming and this has been a great starting point.

Oh and I'm not part of the development team, just helping out with tech stuff.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: snabbott on July 12, 2010, 10:04:36 AM
As far as I know, releasing a small episode didn't have anything to do finding technical issues, though it's true that we can work on making sure they are fixed before future episodes are released.

As CÚsar has stated, we knew that the shortness/lack of puzzles and interactivity would be an issue - perhaps it wasn't commmunicated as well as it could have been. I don't know what they could have done differently, though. This really is the most logical breaking point, and adding additional gameplay would have delayed the release substantially. I can tell you that there is a lot more to do in the future episodes and that they are less linear.

I think having the first episode "out there" is going to be very motivating to the team. I also think they will use the less positive feedback to make the remaining episodes better. I look forward to seeing what they come up with!
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 10:10:04 AM
I've got to agree that it must be super nice to actually have something out there for people to play, especially after everything you guys have been through to get this project done.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 10:11:02 AM
Wasent Part 1 of KQ7 just as Short, i think i remember a Level that was even Shorter then Chapter 1 of TSL  ???
 
Besides, TSL is using the way of KQ7 in Parts and Episodes, like saying they are using the KQ7 Engine ;)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Centaur444 on July 12, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
As CÚsar has stated, we knew that the shortness/lack of puzzles and interactivity would be an issue - perhaps it wasn't commmunicated as well as it could have been.  

I agree that communication and a misunderstanding of what we were getting was a big part of why some, including me, were a bit perplexed/disappointed by the episode.

Quote
I don't know what they could have done differently, though.

What could have been done different was to communicate better.  After 8 years of over-promises, and then two cease-and-desists were successfully fought off, we were all joyous that the game was gonna be released.  And then forums were set up with "hint" sections, and an 11 day (or so) countdown was started.  11 days!  10 days! 9 days!  8 days!  7 days!  6 days!  5 days!  4 days!  3 days!  2 days!  1 day!  And then... come on in everybody!  Download this game we've been working on for 8 years!  It's a King's Quest game!   Yah everybody, come solve the puzzles and go to the hint forum if you have trouble, let's have a blast everybody!

Oh yah, by the way, you won't actually get to do anything in the first episode.
And we could have told you beforehand about that (that this was an intro), and oh yah, by the way there are 3 pages of hoops to jump through first where you need to sign up (no big deal, but again we could have told you that beforehand)

I don't mean to be insulting here.  It's just that communication would have much better helped to tamp down the expectations so that we knew what we were getting.  And also perhaps labeling the first episode an introduction.  It is much easier to beat lower expectations (through good communication) than to live up to 8 years of hype and wondering and the high expectations that come with it.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: jsali001 on July 12, 2010, 11:47:20 AM
I thought episode 1 played great and looked spectacular although I was a bit shocked when I realized it was over already. Can't wait for episode 2. Is there a time frame for the episode 2 release yet??
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 11:51:17 AM
 :suffer:
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: jen on July 12, 2010, 11:58:20 AM
My thoughts on the episode:

Yes, it was short, but in most books, the prologue is usually short as well, so in a way, chapter one was just that, a prologue.

I had seen on here that people had mentioned that it was a short game, which honestly, bummed me a bit.  I figured it would it would basically just be the demo that we had been a ble to download/play, but to lessen the bumming, it was a little different, and went a little longer. In a whole, I think this game was phenomenal, major kudos to all who partook in the creation.

As someone who has been play KQ games 1-7 for ten years (my younger cousin hooked me on the series with game six back in the late '90s, and I ventured into the others *aside from #8, which the premise never honestly appealed to me*, I was super-bummed when I read news of the C&D, but when I learned of the release through a message on Facebook, I literally did a happy-jig and Saturday I was counting down til I could download Episode 1.

In closing, major thumbs up, crew.  I anxiously await Episode #2.



[Sidenote:  jsali001, last night someone asked your same question and I forget who replied, but there was a quote listing sometime late summer, though I don't recall the precise wording.  Personally, I'm hoping either on or before October 21st (that would be the most exciteful birthday present to me if that ends up being the case]
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: jsali001 on July 12, 2010, 12:15:54 PM
 :) Thanks Jen!
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: dutchdevil83 on July 12, 2010, 12:18:40 PM
ok guys first of all i want to say you all did a great job by releasing this game, but don`t
you think after 8 years of waiting, playing one episode is a bit short. I actually played for 25 mins?!
I find this more like a second demo to play with. I rather waited a year longer to play the whole game then wait 8 years for a 30 mins demo.

I`m also afraid we have to wait another year for the second chapter to come.

I hope i`m wrong about this timeline and you all can make the game available in a shorter period of time.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 12:27:11 PM
what can i say, nearly half a decade after the demo's release, we have the demo again. With 10 more minutes of cutscenes.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: jen on July 12, 2010, 12:28:16 PM
ok guys first of all i want to say you all did a great job by releasing this game, but don`t
you think after 8 years of waiting, playing one episode is a bit short. I actually played for 25 mins?!
I find this more like a second demo to play with. I rather waited a year longer to play the whole game then wait 8 years for a 30 mins demo.

I`m also afraid we have to wait another year for the second chapter to come.

I hope i`m wrong about this timeline and you all can make the game available in a shorter period of time.


It has been mentioned on here that all five episodes will be released within the rest of the year, so unless the cast/crew of the game gas a major setback, I don't see it being a full year until the next episode.

Also maybe this will help you, copied from another thread:
Quote
From the TSL FAQ:

9.  WHEN WILL THE NEXT EPISODE IN THE SILVER LINING BE RELEASED?

We are looking to release the next episode of The Silver Lining sometime this summer.  Please keep in mind, however, that this is not set in stone, and ultimately the next episode will be released when it is ready. 
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: jsali001 on July 12, 2010, 12:33:22 PM
Thank you again Jen!  ;D
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: StormSpirit86 on July 12, 2010, 12:48:17 PM
Well, I agree it's a short episode (more like an interactive introduction), and I can understand players feeling a bit disappointed, mainly because after all the wait we all expected a solid episode with lots of puzzles and plot development, so it hasn't made a very good impression to most players, but I have faith that we are going to get more deep into gameplay from the 2nd episode. Personally, I'm waiting for the second episode, because Episode 1 hasn't satisfied my TSL appetite. If it had had more puzzles it would have been a 10/10 game.

Anyway, can't wait to play the 2nd episode! Hope it is released soon!

And by the way, I recall reading that the other episodes were 90% completed, so I expect (and hope) the next will be released on August.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 12:55:57 PM
And by the way, I recall reading that the other episodes were 90% completed, so I expect (and hope) the next will be released on August.

i recall reading alot of things, and thats the problem.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Darkbulb on July 12, 2010, 01:17:51 PM
IF it is true that the next episode will release this summer it makes the decision to separate chapter and 1 and 2 even more questionable. After 8 years why not wait another two months and release something a little bit more substantial.

I don't think I will ever understand the reasoning behind releasing this intro/interactive demo as the first episode. It's not as if 2-3 more months after 8 years would mean a lot and you would had released something that could potentially have met the expectations people have (see some of the puzzles, non-linear quests, etc).
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
I wonder what in Episode 2 is 90% Complete if we cant have it now to keep the Complainers Happy and then wait for a Patch on Episode 2.

2 Months Later we can have Episode 3 with Another Month Episode 4 and by December/January Episode 5

The strange thing is, even if we do get Episode 2 and its Buggy as Hell, People will Still Complain and call KQ/TSL Bad.

So my Advice is, Button your Lip (Complainers) the Game is Short and Chapter 2 will probably come in August at the Earliest, because theres not a chance in Hell they are gonna work an All Chapters thats 90% Complete and then Release them All in December, that would be Overkill.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 01:40:01 PM
I think it was Cesar who said on the podcast show yesterday that the remaining episodes are about 90% done, so that's a fair thing to rely on.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Darkbulb on July 12, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
I wonder what in Episode 2 is 90% Complete if we cant have it now to keep the Complainers Happy and then wait for a Patch on Episode 2.

2 Months Later we can have Episode 3 with Another Month Episode 4 and by December/January Episode 5

The strange thing is, even if we do get Episode 2 and its Buggy as Hell, People will Still Complain and call KQ/TSL Bad.

So my Advice is, Button your Lip (Complainers) the Game is Short and Chapter 2 will probably come in August at the Earliest, because theres not a chance in Hell they are gonna work an All Chapters thats 90% Complete and then Release them All in December, that would be Overkill.

Your post comes across as very entitled and elitist. I wish it was clearly stated that people could only post positive feedback and atta-boys.

If people ARE allowed to air concerns and disappointment you may want to reconsider making posts like that in the future.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 02:02:49 PM
Not quite sure what it means, but i meant that why Complain about it as if expecting to see Episode 2 Next Week  ::)

Yes Chapter 1 was Short, even Cesar Admitted that it was their Biggest Fear of Releasing, so why go on about it  :P

We arent gonna get a Patch with Extra Scenes and who knows, Chapter 2 might just be Around the Corner in August.  :suffer:
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 02:08:15 PM
So my Advice is, Button your Lip (Complainers) the Game is Short and Chapter 2 will probably come in August at the Earliest, because theres not a chance in Hell they are gonna work an All Chapters thats 90% Complete and then Release them All in December, that would be Overkill.

i wonder what % "chapter 1" was when it was first released in 2006. And yeah releasing more than a couple hours of content at a time would be "overkill"...wait...what?
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 02:14:37 PM
The Rest of the Chapters are All about 90% Complete, would you like to wait till December for All Episodes to be Finished and then Released, or:

Get Episode 2 Now with 90% Complete that is Buggy and Half Finished while Complaining for a Patch.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: KatieHal on July 12, 2010, 02:33:22 PM
Your post comes across as very entitled and elitist. I wish it was clearly stated that people could only post positive feedback and atta-boys.

If people ARE allowed to air concerns and disappointment you may want to reconsider making posts like that in the future.

Darkbulb: we welcome constructive criticism, we just ask that it is indeed constructive and respectful. No one benefits from it otherwise, really. :)

And hopefully our other fans will also respect that as well as everyone generally respecting each other. We put a lot of value on our fan community and want everyone to feel welcome here.

Your own feedback was constructive, and we understand those complaints--as we've said, as well, the following episodes will be longer and will have more puzzles in them.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 02:37:05 PM
The Rest of the Chapters are All about 90% Complete, would you like to wait till December for All Episodes to be Finished and then Released, or:

Get Episode 2 Now with 90% Complete that is Buggy and Half Finished while Complaining for a Patch.

i dunno it was kinda buggy anyway. It kept crashing everytime i talked to the guard outside the castle. But the third release of the demo will probably be better in a couple years.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: KatieHal on July 12, 2010, 02:38:43 PM
If you're having crashing problems, spinz, try checking in/posting in our Tech Support forum. They've been able to help a lot of people so far.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 02:40:15 PM
I experienced Zero Crashes, since i have a Very Powerful Machine and i Played Chapter 1 for the 5th Time now  :suffer: :suffer:

I dont think theres gonna be a Demo, since Episode 2 is Very Close and i can feel it.  :P
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 02:42:48 PM
It kept crashing everytime i talked to the guard outside the castle. But the third release of the demo will probably be better in a couple years.

Yeah if you could come over to tech suppot and post some information about your computer and what settings you were playing the game at we'd love to take a look at that issue and see what we can do to resolve it.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 02:44:00 PM
well i ~thiiiiiink~ i figured it out. I was saved at an unlucky spot and everytime i talked to the guard while the credits were in the air and it kept crashing it. After crashing a bunch of times, i finally tried just waiting for the credits to disappear, leave the room, come back in, and it didnt crash, it was some sort of transition for the dogs face changing while the credits were in the air that made it crash, i thiiiiiiiink.

edit: well i just tried to recreate it. And sure enough it crashed again, but when i tried what i did before to fix it.....it didnt work this time. So maybe it is related to my computer. Buuut, when i encountered this a couple days ago i tried everything, turning all the settings on, turning them off, trying high/medium/low, and everything had the same result. Until leaving and coming back just suddenly worked...i dont know.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: iceman0812 on July 12, 2010, 04:20:56 PM
So what is the time frame on episode 2 because your concern is correct. You gave the fan base just a enough to get them back in game mode and than bam its over wait for the next part.
Please point everyone to this thread.

Hey all,
em
We know it. The episode is short and easy. We should not be giving excuses as to why it is short and easy, but let me do some explaining.

There were 2 chapters we were working on. Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. Chapter 1 was meant as a long winded introduction that was meant to welcome you back to the world of King's Quest and just get you completely set up. Chapter 2 throws all the gameplay and puzzles at you.

When we decided to break Chapter 1 and 2 into episodes, Chapter 1 naturally became Episode 1. Extending it towards sections of what is Episode 2 didn't feel right, so we made the call to make it its own episode. There was talks at the time of making it "longer" with more puzzles, etc, but if we did that, we probably wouldn't be releasing today.

As it stands, I love this episode because it doesn't only invite the old fans back, but for those that are curious about the world of King's Quest, and have never played the game before, or are casual gamers, is a very cinematic episode that they can experience quickly.

Now, once you get to Episode 2, we will break the linearity. You will have goals that you can meet in the order you want, and there will be a lot more characters to interact with.

I am very grateful that everyone has loved the episode. And I feel you when you say it's short. It was our one big concern. But fear not, Episode 2 will remedy much of this!

Thanks!
Cez
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 12, 2010, 04:35:07 PM
How many Years did Telltale Games work on Tales Of Monkey Island Chapter 1, since i know that Part is quite Long and Big with Puzzles.

Was it Members from Lucas Arts (Big Team) or Fans making a Fan Game.

The Reason Chapter 2 came out a Month Later, is because All those Chapters were 90% in Completion, yet they were On Time to Release a Chapter Each Month.

TSL will be released by the End of Next Month, that i can be sure off and they Chose to Shorten Chapter 1 C&D or not.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 12, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
um, from my understanding telltale games didnt start work on that till 2008. I mean, company started existing in 2004, and they were pumping games out from then to 2008. Just saying, since you brought it up.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 12, 2010, 05:03:19 PM
Tales of Monkey Island, is completley official. It was joint Lucasarts and Telltale team members that made it for commercial purposes. Towards the end they even got Ron Gilbert back into the game. The Trial and Execution of Guybrush was the best part of the entire series.

I can't wait until they make Season 2 :), hopefully they do.

You know what's funny Owl's Quest had more puzzles than chapter one of TSL, LOL, and its sorta of a prequel to TSL (Cedric trying to get to the birthday party)... With an insane Cedric :p... Its pretty short as well...
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Sundoulos on July 12, 2010, 08:18:07 PM
Yes, and I love Tales of Monkey Island (and, by extension Telltale) as much as the next person, but they also recycle a LOT of material.  For example, ever notice how so many of the NPC character models in ToMI look almost exactly alike?  There is a downside to their quick development  and turnaround cycle, particularly since they sometimes do no have time to address all design/story concerns before the subsequent one is released.  

That is one thing I noticed about TSL.  Each character, even the guard dogs were unique and detailed design.  It's nice to see that, and I hope that the rest of the game will be just as lovingly-crafted.

I, for one, am glad to have finally seen this game in action.   I can't wait to see more, and I have faith that it's going to be something special.

Incidentally,  I'm not knocking Telltale; I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for ToMI season 2.  I loved the narrative twists in episodes 4 and 5; it kind of turned the Monkey Island mythos on it's head.




Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: megluc on July 12, 2010, 10:14:35 PM
Hi, I have never posted on these forums but I have been following the project from the beginning.  Yes, the first episode was very short....but I thought it was great and just wanted to say thanks to the team for all your hard work.  Can't wait for the rest of the episodes!

*Goes back into lurking...*
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 12, 2010, 10:20:04 PM
You may as well hang around and enjoy the community here more, at the very least it helps the time to go by faster than lurking does.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Shadus on July 12, 2010, 11:50:50 PM
I have to admit, the graphics, and workings are beautiful. The story itself is driven and I am already wanting to send that Dark Robed figure into oblivion and find out who the one in white is. However, as much as I enjoyed the hour or so of game play... I was one of the people that had issues getting the game to run in the first place. After a full day of trying to figure things out and playing around and tweaking and frustration which (thanks to your staff) was finally figured out. An hour just... seemed well, not enough. I hope that in the future along with the second episode you bring a patch that will alleviate a lot of the issues that people are having. It seems that a lot of people are having graphical issues and I was no exception. I would definitely give this game 4.9 out of 5 (-.1 for the issues)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 03:18:52 AM
I think a Patch/Cutscene Introduction should be added for Part 1 with Clips to show us pieces of KQ Games in the Past so Newcomers can Understand what KQ/TSL is all about and then we see the Bird with the Islands.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: B'rrr on July 13, 2010, 03:34:34 AM
They could play the previous games! maybe while waiting till next chapter  :)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 04:03:30 AM
Where in the World am i suppose to get the Previous KQ Games, Download them somewhere and i dont think they will even work on my PC  ??? ???
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: crayauchtin on July 13, 2010, 04:12:23 AM
Daventry, you can buy them from Steam. They'll work on your computer that way too.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 13, 2010, 04:47:22 AM
Note that the steam version of KQ7 won't work on a 64 bit version of windows. You might be able to find patches to turn it into a dos version, and use dosbox however.

What TSL should do is put links to Steam and/or GOG into TSL, to advertise the original games for Activision.

Sorta of a, "You played TSL, now show your support to Activision, and go and play the originals, you can find them here"... kind of thing.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 05:06:09 AM
I think after TSL, Activision should Remake the KQ Collection from 1-8 so it can work in Windows 7 64bit ;)

Well i Only need 5-8 since i have KQ1vga/KQ2vga/KQ3vga  :suffer:

There is a Team making KQ4vga, but im not sure if they are still around.  ??? ???
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: spinz on July 13, 2010, 06:21:37 AM
if you still have the original discs you can also just use dosbox to make them work. It takes some tinkering and learning, but its possible to make them run perfectly.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 13, 2010, 07:24:32 AM
The KQ 5-7 collections on GOG, and the 1-7 collecdtion on steam both use Dosbox (except steam KQ7).

The KQ7 version in the steam collection, is a 32-bit windows only version. The collection is also missing the original King's Quest 1.
Quote
i have KQ1vga/KQ2vga/KQ3vga  

Technically you still need to play KQ2 original and KQ3 original, the fan vga versions took many liberties to the original stories (more so with KQ2). TSL is following the original stories (for the most part), and as I understand it, if all you knew was the KQ2 VGA version you probably will have some confusion once TSL starts making references to it (due to many characters from official KQ2 are either missing or completely different).

Besides, the fact that those releases exist, doesn't give you the right to purposely steal revenue from the owners of the original games, ;). You should go out and buy the original games the way they were originally meant to be played and hopefully support the future of these kind of games.



(Posted on: July 13, 2010, 08:27:53 AM)


This was brought up in another thread, but here's Kotaku's review. It discusses mainstream concerns, the effect of first impressions, and is critical of the length of the episode.
http://kotaku.com/5584586...lder?skyline=true&s=i
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 07:38:12 AM
I dident Steal Anything, AGD did and i did play the Original KQ1/KQ2 back then, so go tell AGD Not to Change and do what they want with the Originals :(

Is IA sticking with the Original KQ3  ???

What is GOG  ::)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 13, 2010, 07:43:26 AM
Good, if you have played/owned the originals, good for you :).

IA's KQ3 vga, makes a few changes from the original as far as maps (Daventry is quite a bit different than it was in KQ3), certain puzzles, and certain cutscenes are concerned. Plus many additions not from the original. Only a few changes to the story, nothing really big. Most characters remain true to the original.

Can't say the same for KQ2VGA, removed the genie, removed good fairy, switched the characterizations of the Vampire and Monk characters, etc.

Good Old Games

http://www.gog.com/en/frontpage/

They have quite a few old sierra games, including Gabriel Knight Series. They add new installation onto the games, including all the up to date fan improvements/patches. For example the GK2 has the patch that removes the interlace lines from the videos.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 07:53:09 AM
I like KQ2vga/KQ3vga but i Hate this Father thing they put into it, TSL is Really gonna Confuse the New People who Played the VGA Versions and not understand as to what is going on.

What exactly is Changed in KQ1vga, it looks basicly the same to me.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 13, 2010, 07:54:48 AM
Speaking of teams stealing the games, and changing them for there own purposes;

Ever played Sarien.net? Basically its all the old agi classic games, but in a multiplayer format. You can play the games and solve the puzzles like they originally where intended, but you can chat it up with other players walking around the worlds with you.
http://sarien.net/

I was talking only about KQ2VGA and KQ3VGA. BTW, the Father isn't in KQ3VGA. About the only thing it introduced into the game, storywise, that was different than the original, was Mordack, plus a new theory as to why Rosella became the latest victim (as told in the Oracle Cave). It also ignored the ending of KQ3 and beginning of KQ4, in that the reunion and Graham's heart attack took places moments from each other (but the vga remake places them about three months apart).

KQ1 VGA is essentially almost exactly the same as King's Quest 1 SCI, except for art changes. The diologue and puzzles are exactly the same as the official KQ1 remake. There might have been extra dialogue added, but that only concerns an easter egg or two (Larry Laffer appears for example).
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 13, 2010, 08:23:11 AM
KQ3VGA ignored that and put 3 months between the reunion, and the passing on the cap scene (in which he helps his father repair the land).
I forgot about that part, thats Stupid  ???
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: dante on July 13, 2010, 12:47:44 PM
Releasing a smaller first episode also gives us a chance to discover and resolve surprise technical issues so we can be confident future episodes will run better.

I'm sorry but that's a horrible "reason" and I'm disappointed, if you are part of the development team to even hear you say that - and to state it as if it's fact.

a) There's a testing crew mentioned in the credits,
b) If need for more diverse testing increase that crew. I'm sure there would be an army of people willing to do so,
c) Releasing something as finished in order to gather more info on how it runs is never a good/feasible idea regardless of if it's free or commercial (and I've worked on a number of freeware initiatives).


Chill...

Considering the ride the entire team has been on from the start of this project to right now, I think you owe them to back off and give them a little space.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: DeadlyFoez on July 16, 2010, 10:45:01 AM
I was rather shocked that episode 1 was so short, but it was a great intro and I look forward to the next episodes. I'm very happy to see that this project was able to continue. I have been following this for about 3-4 years and even tried out one of the really early demos. Good job guys. You have helped me relive the magical days of Kings Quest that I played for so many hours on end. Thank you.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Hituro on July 17, 2010, 11:48:55 PM
As far as the remakes go, I really liked the KQ1 remake, and I do like the KQ2 remake only because they gave hagatha a larger roll than in the original.  To be honest, the thing about the father, I don't think that will confuse too many people in TSL.  Only because I always felt that the father was Shadrack, and supposedly he's thousands of years old, and both TSL and KQ2+ make reference to this.  It's kind of a minor mention in TSL, I mean.. I don't know for sure if the cloaked guy is Shadrack.. just assuming he is.  For all I know it could be Crispin gone mad due to Cedric's annoying ramblings.  As for KQ3, I always have loved the original.  The newer remake is only nice because it's got point and click.  But KQ3 and KQ6 were always my favs.  Now I got the Mannanan music stuck in my head :P  "Gwydion!  I'm going on a journey!"
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 18, 2010, 12:23:34 AM
As far as the remakes go, I really liked the KQ1 remake, and I do like the KQ2 remake only because they gave hagatha a larger roll than in the original.  To be honest, the thing about the father, I don't think that will confuse too many people in TSL.  Only because I always felt that the father was Shadrack, and supposedly he's thousands of years old, and both TSL and KQ2+ make reference to this.  It's kind of a minor mention in TSL, I mean.. I don't know for sure if the cloaked guy is Shadrack.. just assuming he is.  For all I know it could be Crispin gone mad due to Cedric's annoying ramblings.  As for KQ3, I always have loved the original.  The newer remake is only nice because it's got point and click.  But KQ3 and KQ6 were always my favs.  Now I got the Mannanan music stuck in my head :P  "Gwydion!  I'm going on a journey!"

I thought The Father was Shadrack as well, but I was never sure. I didn't think Hagatha was in the Black Cloaks, so I didn't jump to a conclusion, but then I found the note that was in the birdcage. The note was written by Manannan who called Hagatha a "sister" and referred to The Father as his leader. Since Manannan was a member of the Black Cloaks, it got me thinking that maybe The Father was Shadrack.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Kimmie on July 18, 2010, 04:40:39 AM
Good, if you have played/owned the originals, good for you :).

IA's KQ3 vga, makes a few changes from the original as far as maps (Daventry is quite a bit different than it was in KQ3), certain puzzles, and certain cutscenes are concerned. Plus many additions not from the original. Only a few changes to the story, nothing really big. Most characters remain true to the original.

Can't say the same for KQ2VGA, removed the genie, removed good fairy, switched the characterizations of the Vampire and Monk characters, etc.

Good Old Games

http://www.gog.com/en/frontpage/

They have quite a few old sierra games, including Gabriel Knight Series. They add new installation onto the games, including all the up to date fan improvements/patches. For example the GK2 has the patch that removes the interlace lines from the videos.

Mmmm, thank you for linking these things, it means I can play and try new games :D
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 18, 2010, 05:52:48 AM
glad to help.

Quote
thought The Father was Shadrack as well, but I was never sure. I didn't think Hagatha was in the Black Cloaks, so I didn't jump to a conclusion, but then I found the note that was in the birdcage. The note was written by Manannan who called Hagatha a "sister" and referred to The Father as his leader. Since Manannan was a member of the Black Cloaks, it got me thinking that maybe The Father was Shadrack.

The father is actually pretty much a non-aging immortal in KQ2+, no reference to him being "Shadrack" though. Shadrack is never actually mentioned. I'm not sure, does the Father ever get called anything but "Father" by other members of the black cloak? I know in case of KQ6 (or maybe the Companion), Shadrack was referred to as "brother".

Here is an articles concerning essential the limits known about the Society of the Black cloak from "official" sources, KQ6 and The King's Quest Companion alone (its put together with direct references, with minimal interpretation);
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_the_Black_Cloak

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shadrack

Here are various fan theories for the Society and Shadrack;
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shadrack_(fan_sources)

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Cloak_Society_(unofficial)
Now back to the topic.


Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: crayauchtin on July 18, 2010, 03:06:51 PM
If you read the books in the library in KQ2+, it tells you everything you need to know about the Father. It doesn't spell it out for you who he is, but he is in the books and he is NOT a nice person. ;)

But, no, he is not Shadrack.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 18, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
He's actually Morgeilen.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 18, 2010, 03:47:20 PM
glad to help.

Quote
thought The Father was Shadrack as well, but I was never sure. I didn't think Hagatha was in the Black Cloaks, so I didn't jump to a conclusion, but then I found the note that was in the birdcage. The note was written by Manannan who called Hagatha a "sister" and referred to The Father as his leader. Since Manannan was a member of the Black Cloaks, it got me thinking that maybe The Father was Shadrack.

The father is actually pretty much a non-aging immortal in KQ2+, no reference to him being "Shadrack" though. Shadrack is never actually mentioned. I'm not sure, does the Father ever get called anything but "Father" by other members of the black cloak? I know in case of KQ6 (or maybe the Companion), Shadrack was referred to as "brother".

Here is an articles concerning essential the limits known about the Society of the Black cloak from "official" sources, KQ6 and The King's Quest Companion alone (its put together with direct references, with minimal interpretation);
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_the_Black_Cloak

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shadrack

Here are various fan theories for the Society and Shadrack;
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shadrack_(fan_sources)

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Cloak_Society_(unofficial)
Now back to the topic.



http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Cloak_Society_%28unofficial%29

Interesting. In this link (which I got to from one of Baggins' links), it says that there are two versions of the Black Cloaks, but they are both considered non-canonical. The only members that were mentioned in KQ6, was Mordack, Alhazred, and Shadrack. There was also no reference to Shadrack even being the leader, it was just assumed. The Father and his cult was one of the non-canonical versions of the Black Cloaks. But apparently, The Father goes by the name, Morgeilen. He was the leader of "this" Black Cloak Society, just not Shadrack himself. The other version of the Black Cloaks was Shadrack, and practically every villain in the series ever (including Lucreto, which I thought was weird).

The only version of the Black Cloaks that will truly matter will be the one that is revealed in TSL. So as of yet, there is no canonical Society outside of the three mentioned members.

EDIT: I just found this line in the same link:

Note: Shadrack is not mentioned but is presumably a member as well, likely a "Brother" (though he could be another one of Moregeilen's identities).

So maybe Shadrack is The Father. No use in speculating any further, because there's no evidence to say one way or another. Why does non-canonical stories have to make your head spin? :S
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: crayauchtin on July 18, 2010, 03:50:50 PM
He's actually Morgeilen.
See, I was gonna let them figure it out on their own. :P
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 18, 2010, 04:06:59 PM
Quote
So as of yet, there is no canonical Society outside of the three mentioned members.
Well, even TSL's will end up on that "unofficial" page. The only person who really had any idea of what the "canonical" Black Cloak entailled was apparently Jane Jensen, and she never took it anywhere :p... That "canonical" page is only what comes out of KQ6 and the Companion, and nothing else.

TSL represents another fan theory, which apparently places Shadrack as the leader of the Black Cloaks (from what we have been told in interviews).

As of right now there are actually four different fan versions of what the Black Cloak society is exactly, two from fan fiction and two from fan games. I'm sure other fans have given there theories out there as well, those are just the four I know of.

Quote
Note: Shadrack is not mentioned but is presumably a member as well, likely a "Brother" (though he could be another one of Moregeilen's identities).

Yep, that's speculation, there are many fans that assume that Shadrack is an alias of Morgeilen. But like it mentions, Shadrack is not ever mentioned in the game. Neither is Abdul Alhazred even... It could probably be speculated that Abdul Alhazred was an alias of Morgeilen for all we know :p... There may even be clues in the game that Lucreto might have been Morgeilen... Who really knows... Someone should try asking Erpy, if they had thought of Shadrack et al during their design processes.

But anyways back to the topic, of the game being too short :).
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Hituro on July 19, 2010, 01:59:46 AM
I thought The Father was Shadrack as well, but I was never sure. I didn't think Hagatha was in the Black Cloaks, so I didn't jump to a conclusion, but then I found the note that was in the birdcage. The note was written by Manannan who called Hagatha a "sister" and referred to The Father as his leader. Since Manannan was a member of the Black Cloaks, it got me thinking that maybe The Father was Shadrack.

Actually in the King's Quest companion I believe it mentions that Hagatha is the sister of both Manannan and Mordack.  So I always assumed she was part of the black cloak society as well.  I guess I'm wrong about the father though :)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: B'rrr on July 19, 2010, 03:49:53 AM
Well, actually did find this quote  (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Hagatha) from Roberta;

With respect to Hagatha [being related to Manannan and Mordack]: Roberta's answer was, "Would you like them to be related?" Then she said, "Nope, Hagatha was her own separate person

Guess the KQ companion is wrong, as it beeing wrong it can not be bart of this "canonical" shizzle, now, can it?  ::) ;)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 19, 2010, 04:16:52 AM
There are plenty of situations where the King's Quest Companion differs from Roberta's vision of the universe, or what's sometimes said in the games. Usually only slightly, but a major case in point is the cosmology of the universe, every manual, has stated that the games take place a long time ago, and have been several articles treating it as a legendary past of our world. The quote in the bottom of my post represents this specifically.  

But then Sierra and other King's Quest designers bypassed her, and allowed the information into Sierra published games, for example the whole Hagatha is Mordack's and Manannan's sister made it into the King's Quest Collections in the King's Questions trivia game that came with the 15th anniversery King's Quest Collection and the King's Quest Collection 2.

Quote
Which one of the following evil people is not related to the others?

a. Endora

b. Manannan

c. Hagatha

d. Mordack


Here are the various answers (note specifically what it says if you make the wrong answers);

Quote
a. Endora
That's right! Endora is related to Samantha, Darren, and Tabitha.
b. Manannan
That is incorrect. Manannan is Hagatha and Mordack's brother.
c. Hagatha
No. Hagatha is Mordack and Manannan's sister.
d. Mordack
Sorry. Mordack is related to Manannan and Hagatha.

I don't have an idea how people would be able to answer that question correctly without having read the companion (unless the answer is hidden somewhere among some of the extra material included in the King's Quest Collection), or knows Betwitched trivia. But certainly within the King's Quest adventure games alone, there is nothing stating Hagatha is the evil Wizard brothers' sister, neither do games state that she is not their sister. So technically there is no contradiction between the games, including King's Questions (and the Companion) on the issue.

Quite a few desigers/sierra authors, including KQ6 directly referenced the Companion... I mean it was Derek Karlavaegen who wrote the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Islands, not 'John the Wanderer'.

The Shield of Achille/s, Merlin's Mirror, and Chest of Gold made it into Sierra published material, when those were names created in the Companions.

...and while Derek Karlavaegen says the world is "Earth" in the Guidebook, have you also noticed he makes indirect reference to the "multiverse", he talks about Green Isles being in an area that is close to the edge of the world, and what lies beyond? "The next world", and the title of that section makes a reference "Other Worlds". Other World was Peter Spear's name for our "Earth". So it seems Jane Jensen pulled some inspiration from the Companion, although she still followed Roberta's cosmology that her universe itself is actually on our Earth.

Quote
It was as if the storm had been another flood that had wiped civilization from the face of the Earth.

Genies are very valuable creatures and can do a variety of tricks including transporting a man anywhere on earth.

Hidden Islands and Other Worlds

For it is believed that within a day's sail in that direction a ship strong enough and foolhardy enough to survive the tempest seas would encounter the edge of the world!

"What lies beyond the edge of the world," I asked "why, the next world." they replied, and with fearful glances at one another, quickly changed the subject.

And to quote the Ferryman, Hassan;
Quote
"Some say that the Land of the Green Isles is near the edge of the world, and that the deadly currents are the result of a magnetism that sucks life from this world to the next...

Lorelei Shannon by far is probably one of the biggest people to treat the companion as "canon" in that she routinely referenced bits of it in the official published Sierra hintbooks for King's Quest, for example in the King's Quest VI Hintbook, and the King's Quest VII Hint Guide, Things like Lake Maylie for example made it into an article in KQ6 hintbook.

Besides the King's Questions, material from the Companions also appears in the Inside the Chest, and The Royal Scribe material from the King's Quest Collections as well. Sierra also published material from the book in the Interaction Magazine (see Sierra News Magazine, Autumn 1989 for example).

So there is a certainly a blurring or a grey area with the Companion. Obviously the various Sierra's inhouse designers and writers had different opinions of what was "canon" and not :p... Let's face it Roberta didn't really know everything her designers put into KQ6 either, she apparently had very little to do with the Black Cloak side story.

However, as for Hagatha, she was never considered as part of the Society of the Black Cloak in Jane and Roberta's discussions for the group. Manannan was, but he is never actually brought up in any of the Society of Black Cloak related material in King's Quest 6 (unless its in some random narrator dioalogue I've overlooked somewhere).

Quote
"The "Black Cloak Society" was never an actual term that I instigated or thought up. I'm not actually sure where that came from. The closest thought that I have on that subject is that: when I was working with Jane Jensen on King's Quest 6, and we thought up the evil vizier, we talked loosely about the possibility of putting Mannanan, Mordack, and the vizier together as group -- possibly -- in a future King's Quest. There was loose reference to the possibility in King's Quest 6, although nothing was set in stone at that time. I think that it's possible that Jane Jensen might have mentioned the possibility (perhaps) in subsequent interviews on the subject, although, I'm not sure about that. Later on, I heard about the Black Cloak Society and kind of wondered where that phrase came from, but, I never refuted it as I thought it was kind of cool and, probably, would have gone on with the idea in future King's Quests had I had the chance. And, one final thing: Hagatha was never part in any discussion of a Black Cloak Society.
- Roberta Williams at SierraGamers (6-9-2003)


See also
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Daventry

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/The_Royal_Scribe

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/The_Royal_Scribe#King.27s_Quest_Series

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/The_Royal_Scribe#King.27s_Quest_I:_Quest_for_the_Crown

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King%27s_Questions

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Inside_the_Chest

Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: crayauchtin on July 20, 2010, 01:28:30 PM
Baggins, I thought Lake Maylie was mentioned in the official source material for KQ1 and KQ3 -- which would be before the Companion?

I think the reason Manannan was never brought into discussion of the Black Cloak Society in the games is because, unless they have a feline chapter (:P) he probably had not been a member for too long to really be considered in it all.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 20, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
No, you just get a "It's a beautiful lake description" (it is a different description than each of the other lakes however, but it isn't given a name), :P.... Lake Maylie is purely King's Quest Companion, as is the name of Queen Maylie. She's just Edward's dead queen in KQ1.

and lake Maylie doesn't appear in KQ2 and 3 :p, you are in Kolyma and Llewdor for those games, and do not even get near the lake in KQ3 when you return to daventry. Its behind the castle remember?.

The only other reference I know of to "Lake Maylie" outside of the Companions is the one in the KQ6 hintbook.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: crayauchtin on July 20, 2010, 06:08:23 PM
Not in the game, the materials for the game. I was pretty sure Lake Maylie and Queen Maylie were named in the original manuals that came with them. In KQ1 the manual describes the queen's death and I believe she was given a name. In KQ3, Alexander is kidnapped from the shores of Lake Maylie, and I think the manual called it that.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 20, 2010, 06:11:01 PM
No, the KQ1-4 manuals do not refer to any lakes.

and the queen is just Edward's queen or Edward's wife. She has no name, go look at the manuals on teh King's Quest Omnipedia, they are all there. The queen isn't even mentioned in the game.

There is a mention about Graham going out for a walk in KQ5 manual possibly near "a lake" but no name is given, and that's post companion of course.

For that matter, the queen only actually appears in the second version of the manual, she was not even mentioned original manual.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 23, 2010, 09:05:59 AM
A silly question:

Can there be a Timer Countdown for when Episode 2 comes.

Will there be a New Trailer for Episode 2, or does the Trailers we saw cover All the Episodes.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 23, 2010, 09:41:07 AM
The timer countdown before was for the game release being announced, not really much point to having a timer counting for the actual release of the next episode, people will just want to know what day it is.

And the trailer for Episode 2 plays at the end of Episode 1 doesn't it?  It should have given you a link.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: daventry on July 23, 2010, 10:22:58 AM
No i meant like a Brand New Trailer  Again :P
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: Baggins on July 23, 2010, 10:31:23 AM
Seriously i've mentioned this in the other thread, but I don't think most of the reviewers, actually read the forums, I don't think they even know of this thread... This isn't mentioned on the game website, description, or download pages. It seems from their perspective they only see the glowing description promising a fun episode to play.

I think that's causing a disconnect...
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: wilco64256 on July 23, 2010, 12:12:59 PM
No i meant like a Brand New Trailer  Again

This I'm not sure about.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: KatieHal on July 23, 2010, 12:44:04 PM
We haven't talked about another trailer for Episode 2 yet, but knowing Cesar and how much he loves making those things, I'm guessing there'll be one at some point :) (*but don't hold me to it!)
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: kindofdoon on July 25, 2010, 10:31:30 PM
Now this is exciting.
Title: Re: To everyone who thinks the episode is too short and with not enough puzzles
Post by: sierrachild78 on August 18, 2010, 07:39:40 PM
Is there any chance of publishing a release schedule?  I am busy downloading chapter 1, but is so excited that the legend is reborn again and that this could be the start again of the KQ series, the SQ and PQ series as well.  I do not mind paying for any of the coming chapters, as long as they keep coming!!

I like your way of thinking. Would love to see another Sonny Bonds game...no L.A. Detective stuff or S.W.A.T. and another Roger misadventure...possibly with Josh somehow involved.

Dave