Episode 2 gave quite a bit more information about what's going on in the Land of the Green Isles and to the Royal Family. What do you think it means? What do you think might happen next?
I'm not sure if this is obvious, but it's something I came up with:
I think that we're led to believe that the guy [spoiler]Shadrack[/spoiler] who put Alexander and Rosella in the deep sleep is the [spoiler]same guy that the Ranger referred to as being the leader of the black cloaks. However, the Ranger also mentioned that the leader was just becoming able to escape the imprisonment that the silver cloaks put him in after 1000 years, and that doesn't tie in with Shadrack, seeing as the letters that Shamir mentioned that Alexander found in the Vizier's secret box would talk about how Shadrack used to play chess with Mordack - implying that he was physically present and not locked in the Zodia stone. So apparently there's someone even more evil and powerful than Shadrack that Shadrack is working for by getting whatever is so special out of Alexander and Rosella's minds to bring him back. :o[/spoiler]
This can go anywhere. Just some quick thoughts...
[spoiler]The black cloak Society consists of some nasty familiar foes like Manannan, Mordack, Hagatha, Alhazred and Shadrack but there must be someone else we don't know yet. A more evil magician (shiver). [/spoiler]
Furthermore...
[spoiler] the silver cloack society consists of 12 noble wizards of which one is called Leo. Are we heading for all the 12 signs of the Zodiac as also referred to by Zodia stone? Seems like it... [/spoiler]
But what...
[spoiler]is the information needed from Alexander and Rosella? The location of Pandora's box or the key to it? And what choice must Graham make? Light or dark? Rosella or Alexander? Hope not... [/spoiler]
I just can't wait :)
Those are all some interesting thoughts. I didn't even get the Leo reference until you mentioned it. Now I feel like an idiot for not realizing sooner. I also liked the thought about choosing the darkness or light.
[spoiler]I originally figured it meant exactly what it sounds like, choosing good or evil and how far this quest could take Graham, but now that you mentioned it, Rosella and Alexander have been described in terms of light and darkness and the writers have gone out of their way to show Rosella and Alexander as complete opposites. I think you're right, he's going to have to choose between the two of them. And with the talk of sacrifices the cloaked stranger mentioned regarding the Silver Cloaks trapping the evil leader of the Black Cloaks...Graham may have to choose a child to sacrifice to hold the evil back. Or there's the third option of sacrificing himself.[/spoiler]
Outside of that, I'm also intrigued as to whether
[spoiler]This evil is Shadrack or not. It seems to imply it is, but KQ6 likewise implied that Shadrack was out and about. Maybe the bonds have been weakening for a while?[/spoiler]
Also...
[spoiler]The talk of Pandora's Box was good and I like how it's being tied in as an actual artifact with a history instead of an anachronism from the real world. I'm hoping for a return to Tamir, at the very least in Rosella's mind. In a perfect world, I'd like an entire episode (at least) with Graham going around Tamir and getting Pandora's Box back. I mean, he knows right where Rosella put it! Plus, we'd get 3D zombies and ghosts! How wicked awesome would that be?[/spoiler]
My other major question would be...sigh...another spoiler tag...
[spoiler]Is Manannan still a cat or not? I'd assume he is since KQ3 stated that you'd be a cat forever, and KQ5 implied it could only be undone by the one who cast the spell. Still, the scenes with him and Alexander are interesting. Maybe his spirit is still in this weird in-between land? And that talk about him trying to guide Alexander and make him powerful? That was odd. Though personally I wouldn't put it past Manannan to have just been screwing with Alexander. I mean, he's calling him Gwydion and "my son!" He's definitely screwing with Alexander on some level, it's just a question of how much.[/spoiler]
Alright, enough spoiler tags! Finish the episode, everyone, so I can stop using them and just go back to writing in full, unhidden, paragraph form!
Quote from: BjornBerendsen on September 19, 2010, 12:21:44 PM
This can go anywhere. Just some quick thoughts...
[spoiler]The black cloak Society consists of some nasty familiar foes like Manannan, Mordack, Hagatha, Alhazred and Shadrack but there must be someone else we don't know yet. A more evil magician (shiver). [/spoiler]
Furthermore...
[spoiler] the silver cloack society consists of 12 noble wizards of which one is called Leo. Are we heading for all the 12 signs of the Zodiac as also referred to by Zodia stone? Seems like it... [/spoiler]
But what...
[spoiler]is the information needed from Alexander and Rosella? The location of Pandora's box or the key to it? And what choice must Graham make? Light or dark? Rosella or Alexander? Hope not... [/spoiler]
I just can't wait :)
Those are some interesting ideas to think about.
[spoiler]I think that the head-honcho of the Black Cloaks is still Shadrack. Unless, he's a second-in-command to someone more powerful. It's hard to tell. Shadrack hasn't been "in the flesh" yet, and he did attack Alexander from a foreign location, unlike the guy who attacked Rosella.
The Zodiac signs is something that I didn't even think about. When The Ranger said that there were 12 Silver Cloaks left and they started to die off, I immediately thought of the 12 disciples and how each of them were martyrs as well. The Zodia stone would suggest a Zodiac relation, if anything.
I thought for awhile (ever since the last cutscene in Episode 1) that Alexander represented darkness and Rosella represented the light. I'm afraid that my first hunch about Alexander being brainwashed by Manannan might come true. The conversations about Alexander in Episode 2 got me thinking. Ali talked about how intrigued Alex was with magic. Manannan called Alexander, "a son". I have a feeling Manannan might try to turn Alexander into a dark wizard, if not a Black Cloak. Rosella might have to fight Alexander, and that would be bad considering the conversation Graham had with Edgar. They talked about how happy the twins were to be reunited again. Episode 3 will definitely be interesting. [/spoiler]
Quote from: Fierce Deity on September 19, 2010, 01:00:04 PM
[spoiler]I thought for awhile (ever since the last cutscene in Episode 1) that Alexander represented darkness and Rosella represented the light. I'm afraid that my first hunch about Alexander being brainwashed by Manannan might come true. The conversations about Alexander in Episode 2 got me thinking. Ali talked about how intrigued Alex was with magic. Manannan called Alexander, "a son". I have a feeling Manannan might try to turn Alexander into a dark wizard, if not a Black Cloak. Rosella might have to fight Alexander, and that would be bad considering the conversation Graham had with Edgar. They talked about how happy the twins were to be reunited again. Episode 3 will definitely be interesting. [/spoiler]
Bit of a warning: Lots of really old revealed stuff in the next tag.
[spoiler]Yea, I definitely think something like that's up. Went back through one of the docs I have of released stuff, and some of it sorta points that way:
"Alexander, for example, will be sort of an anti-hero."
"the most complicated character of the game"
"he'll have to choose between his family... or loneliness."
"His flaw is a bit of a combination of those two things - the loneliness that's always been there, and the desire for stability, something more foreign to him, at the same time"
"many times his actions will imply something different or deeper than what we "thought"",
"You guys are so gonna hate me for the Alexander of this game"
", it's a wonder Alexander turned out to be so good. Well, during KQ9, these demons come to haunt him back, in a mix of the personality that Roberta created for him for both KQ3 and KQ6, and my own personal view of what he should have grown up to be, which makes him the most complex character in the game."
"A young king tempted by darkness."
Also, here's an interesting bit of dialog I've never been sure of whose talking and who they're talking to, but it seems to be someone trying to convert someone else, and the "eternal loneliness" reminds of Alexander...
"You can't even defend yourself. How did you think you could defend your family? In the end... you are all alone! Is it worth it? Should you keep lying to yourself or should you realize you are really in search of power. A power so great that it would consume you, heal you... What is the only real solution to the eternal loneliness you feel inside? That one thing that destroys you, and that slowly turns your heart into stone? Can you see? Can you see it at all? There's no such thing as boundaries... There's not such a thing as truth. Trust? Protection? Such things do not exist. I can smell your fear, and your deception. Nothing of what you believe is worthy, and none of you are worthy as long as you believe in it! Would you rather fight for what is not true, or would you rather stop all the lies and live life for what it is... and how it should be... Destroy all traces of the lie called love! Look at your so called family, and you'll see how right I am!"
Course, all of this is before the game got cut, so some of it might no longer be applicable...
[/spoiler]
This is really good info, Tess; thanks for passing it along to us newbs.
And that last paragraph...makes me want to cry because it's so depressing. :'(
Quote from: kindofdoon on September 19, 2010, 06:52:32 PM
And that last paragraph...makes me want to cry because it's so depressing. :'(
I know! :'(
Quote from: kindofdoon on September 19, 2010, 06:52:32 PM
This is really good info, Tess; thanks for passing it along to us newbs.
Want the whole file? Only on Alexander stuff though. :P
I want everything TSL-related you can possibly give me! My archive is 264MB in size, and I am always looking to expand that. You have my email address, right?
Sent.
:) Got it, thank you so much!
NP. Think I mixed up you and Fierce Diety in that last email though :-\
Haha, I noticed that. Great intel though.
I have a feeling that Alexander has been turned into a Cat, then he Fisicly Wakes Up with Cassima Screaming and Fainting, then Alex is the New Companion to Graham. :suffer:
Quote from: daventry on September 20, 2010, 05:42:23 AM
I have a feeling that Alexander has been turned into a Cat, then he Fisicly Wakes Up with Cassima Screaming and Fainting, then Alex is the New Companion to Graham. :suffer:
A POIsonous cat?
I still think Alexander was mind controlled and brought upstairs to undo the spell on Manannan.
I mentioned some of this in Doon's thread but I figured I'd bring it up here. I noticed in episode one that the narrator discussed Graham's fighting evil and the fact that he never succeeded in wiping evil out entirely. And in Episode 2 Graham has said things to that effect as well. And with the talk in Episode 2 about Graham making an ultimate choice between good and evil, that all seems to indicate to me that Graham will be sacrificing himself to end the profound evil of the Black Cloaks. I think his ultimate choice will be whether he sacrifices himself and ends evil or whether he does nothing, which allows him to live out his life with his family but also allows evil to continue. As I said in Doon's thread, I think Graham's ultimate sacrifice will be to seal his soul in the Zodia stone like the Silver Cloaks did and keep the evil bound for another thousand years. So Graham will sacrifice himself to finally banish evil and also become an eternal guardian for all that is good and righteous.
Now, on to other things as well (so it doesn't look like I'm just reposting a theory so that people will pat me on the head and give me a cookie) I am interested in seeing what is happening with time going backwards. That is odd. I'm also wondering if that's what happened to the note on the pawn shop, though that whole note vanished, not just the printing. Likewise, why does the fact that this evil has been released have the effect of running time backwards? I'd imagine more of a nature withering and dying effect, like when Malicia did her thing in KQ7. Time running backwards must have a separate purpose, but why, and who is doing it? And I don't think it's to make Mannanan a human again. I think him showing up as human in Alexander's nether world is simply his projection of himself, not actually Mannanan.
I've also been wondering if it's possible that some of the Silver Cloaks have been reincarnated into new bodies, namely Alexander and Rosella. This would explain why the Silver Cloak souls no longer bind the evil in the Zodia stone and also explain why the royal twins are so powerful.
You just blew my mind. As I may have said earlier, your theory of Graham resealing the Zodia Stone and becoming a guardian would complete the series very nicely, in my opinion.
As for time running backwards explaining the disappearing items, that makes sense as well, though I think I recall a team member saying that the time running backwards aspect was cut from Episodes 1-5. Can anyone clarify?
Well, if it were cut, then it's REALLY weird that things are disappearing, etc.
It's there still. How & why have changed in revisions of the script though. You'll learn more later. :suffer:
*yearns for Episodes 3-5 but appreciates that Katie actually said something substantial instead of making a joke*
[spoiler]Alexander will be tricked into reversing the spell that turned Manannan into a cat. Since Alex is the only one who can do this.[/spoiler]
Quote from: kindofdoon on September 29, 2010, 05:10:27 PM
You just blew my mind. As I may have said earlier, your theory of Graham resealing the Zodia Stone and becoming a guardian would complete the series very nicely, in my opinion.
I can comment on this, because I don't actually know how things turn out. :P
I think it needs to be something more than this - not just "keeping the evil bound for another thousand years" but defeating it once and for all. (I don't mean putting an end to all evil - just the evil of the BCS). Also, in Graham's dream at the end of Episode 1, there is reference to a last chance - one final choice. That sounds pretty permanent to me.
Maybe Graham's soul is stronger so it would make the seal permanent?
Or it would still be technically removing the evil that has affected his family as they wouldn't be around at the end of the next thousand years. Or maybe there's another reason that the seals on the stone are breaking and Graham could seal it forever. Whatever the case, I do think that Graham will be sacrificing himself to end the evil that has oppressed his family. It just seems to make the most sense with the foreshadowing and Graham's emotions and dialogue.
Just editing in a thought that occurred to me (because double posting is of the devil) that might explain why the seals on the stone aren't holding and why Graham may need to sacrifice himself. There are the twelve signs of the Zodiac (and in the game, the dark stranger mentioned the twelve Silver Cloaks that sacrificed their souls to the stone) but the truth is that due to the elliptical path of the sun through the constellations, there is actually a thirteenth Zodiac sign. Kind of like a leap year sign. So if the writers are going the route of the Zodiac and that kind of astrological mysticism, it could be that one more sacrifice is needed to be the thirteenth sign. Heck, maybe the dark stranger was a Silver Cloak and was meant to sacrifice himself along with his comrades, but wimped out at the last minute, which is why the evil was only held for a thousand years and now the bonds are weakening. He failed and is disgraced and now Graham has to take his place and keep the evil contained forever.
This (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=5972.msg218061#msg218061)
We already know that theory is wrong though, because Hagatha and Lolotte are confirmed BCS members.
Quote from: Damar on September 29, 2010, 05:05:06 PM
I noticed in episode one that the narrator discussed Graham's fighting evil and the fact that he never succeeded in wiping evil out entirely.
This is from the response you get from clicking the LOOK icon on a tree, right? LOL :suffer:
After playing through Episodes 1 and 2, I've got my own ideas about the plot...
[spoiler]...and I see quite possible that Manannan could be turned back to his human shape at some point in time. Anyway, we still don't know anything about how are things going in Daventry, and we haven't heard any news of some characters, such as the whereabouts of Connor after defeating Lucreto and restoring the Mask of Eternity. I think that has to be mentioned somehow in the next chapter(s). I've taken a look back to some of the previous parts of the saga and, the way I see it, that Shadrack is not the real Leader of the Black Cloack Society, it has to be someone who was not able to write any letter, because of the imprisonment.
I've also remembered some details about the great AGI remakes of KQ1 & 2, specially KQ2, but I think the people from PO Studios denied there was any relation among those... [/spoiler]
Since Queen Valanice is also involved, what role does SHE play in the final 3 episodes?
I believe that before the battle with the Black Cloak leader's "pet" outside a spiral tower (from the preview video on Youtube), she will discover clues to stopping the evil with King Graham, Pandora's Box and the Zodia stone.
Will Edgar (who used his own magical powers against his aunt Malicia in KQ7) get involved in the final 3 episodes?
I believe Edgar will be transformed into the Black Cloak leader's "pet werewolf" outside the spiral tower.
And what about Queen Cassima?
For all we know, the only evidence (that Queen Cassima is still IN the castle) is her necklace, which is in King Graham's possession. And knowing her cleverness from KQ5 and quick action from KQ6, she probably will help the royal family from many tight spots.
Quote from: Bajamamut on October 08, 2010, 06:50:51 PM
After playing through Episodes 1 and 2, I've got my own ideas about the plot...
[spoiler]...and I see quite possible that Manannan could be turned back to his human shape at some point in time. Anyway, we still don't know anything about how are things going in Daventry, and we haven't heard any news of some characters, such as the whereabouts of Connor after defeating Lucreto and restoring the Mask of Eternity. I think that has to be mentioned somehow in the next chapter(s). I've taken a look back to some of the previous parts of the saga and, the way I see it, that Shadrack is not the real Leader of the Black Cloack Society, it has to be someone who was not able to write any letter, because of the imprisonment.
I've also remembered some details about the great AGI remakes of KQ1 & 2, specially KQ2, but I think the people from PO Studios denied there was any relation among those... [/spoiler]
You are right, TSL is following the story line set by the original games.
After reading a few things it got me thinking about:
[spoiler]A possible tie-in with the original 3 artifacts the King (then Knight) Graham gathered in Daventry. They could possibly be from either the BCS or SCS. It's possible the Dwarf, Giant, and Elves were recruited by a mysteriously society of wizards (BCS / SCS) in order to prevent hindering the return of 'head Badguy'. The mirror sent him to Valanice - which is the whole reason he went to Kolyma. No Valanice, no Alexander and Rosella. Also - it was blackened the entire time Alexander was with Mannannan. I could see Graham having to take those items to the 'fates' in KQ7, and they would have to use his soul in order to seal the 'head Badguy' (to be named later).
Speaking of Mannannan and the BCS, I think it's pretty clear he was just in person because it was inside Alexander's head, and yes, Shadrack is most likely the #2 big time bad guy, like his proxy in the real world until he could return.
[/spoiler]
Quote from: shakes on October 11, 2010, 10:36:16 PM
After reading a few things it got me thinking about:
[spoiler]A possible tie-in with the original 3 artifacts the King (then Knight) Graham gathered in Daventry. They could possibly be from either the BCS or SCS. It's possible the Dwarf, Giant, and Elves were recruited by a mysteriously society of wizards (BCS / SCS) in order to prevent hindering the return of 'head Badguy'. The mirror sent him to Valanice - which is the whole reason he went to Kolyma. No Valanice, no Alexander and Rosella. Also - it was blackened the entire time Alexander was with Mannannan. I could see Graham having to take those items to the 'fates' in KQ7, and they would have to use his soul in order to seal the 'head Badguy' (to be named later).
Speaking of Mannannan and the BCS, I think it's pretty clear he was just in person because it was inside Alexander's head, and yes, Shadrack is most likely the #2 big time bad guy, like his proxy in the real world until he could return.
[/spoiler]
I really hope they do tie in the original three artifacts. Right now we've got Pandora's Box as being tied in, which is super cool but such a minor plot point comparatively. There's so much more than can be done with the Three Treasures!
I similarly hope that Shadrack is the #2 baddie, because it will make my plans for my fanfic Companion I'm writing work SOOOO much easier.
Quote from: araigumabks on October 11, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Since Queen Valanice is also involved, what role does SHE play in the final 3 episodes?
[spoiler]After all the time Valanice spent locked in the crystal tower, why now does she choose to jump out of a window.
[/spoiler]
Perhaps this is the influence of Hagatha. Although Lady Mab supposedly protects Valanice's dreams. But Valanice is part of the prophecy aswell, so it would be interesting to see what happens next.
Agreed, I don't think there's any doubt that Valanice is in the beginning stages of her own personal curse. Suicide just isn't her, so she must be under the influence of the curse. And it makes sense. Why would Shadrack stop at just Graham's kids. Surely he's going to take Graham's entire family, then start gunning for Graham himself.
It will be interesting to see if Hagatha makes an appearance. I always felt that she was one of the biggest loose ends that was never tied up in King's Quest.
Quote from: Damar on October 24, 2010, 12:20:30 PM
Agreed, I don't think there's any doubt that Valanice is in the beginning stages of her own personal curse. Suicide just isn't her, so she must be under the influence of the curse. And it makes sense. Why would Shadrack stop at just Graham's kids. Surely he's going to take Graham's entire family, then start gunning for Graham himself.
It will be interesting to see if Hagatha makes an appearance. I always felt that she was one of the biggest loose ends that was never tied up in King's Quest.
She really was, wasn't she? :)
Yeah, and it was really odd. I know that KQ2 basically just treated her like a random hazard, like the witch in KQ1, but at least in the first game, you could push the witch into the oven. You have Hagatha in the exact same situation, and it won't even let you do that! And she was mentioned in the manual as the one who locked Valanice away. It always seemed odd to me that you couldn't do anything except avoid her in the game.
So yeah, I'd be pretty wicked ecstatic if Hagatha makes an appearance and you get to face her down and bring that plot point full circle. And since one of the themes of this game seems to be bringing things to a sense of finality, I'd be willing to bet that we will be dealing with Hagatha at some point.
I don't recall seeing any concept art or models of Hagatha or any other witch.
Maybe they didn't release information on all the characters so they'd have some surprises. Having Hagatha play a role would also be a good way of having a central villain we have a connection with. Shadrack can fulfill that role, however if it turns out that he's the great evil one that's more or less still bound in the Zodia Stone (as opposed to another, even greater evil who headed up the Black Cloaks), then that will relegate him more to the end of the game as a bad guy instead of an active antagonist. So having Hagatha will allow us to have an antagonist who is actively going against Graham as opposed to someone casting spells from the shadows, waiting for us to go to him.
It may also be that Hagatha will start to show up in Valanice's dreams, like Manannan is with Alexander. There's no doubt in my mind that Valanice is pretty close to going into a coma like her kids. Hagatha could start messing with Valanice in her dreams.
T'would be interesting. We must wait to see.
Quote from: kindofdoon on October 24, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
T'would be interesting. We must wait to see.
Unfortunately. :P
Greetings, all. New poster here. After having played through Eps. 1&2 a couple times, and noticing more and different things with each playthrough, I thought I'd come here and toss some ideas back and forth about upcoming developments/puzzles. You've got some interesting theories going so far! Here's what I've got to add to the pot.
Concerning the Silver Cloaks
[spoiler]I agree with Bjorn that they will have a Zodiac motif/naming convention. Not only does the stranger tell us about the Zodia stone and a leader named Leo, but the zodiac symbols appear in two places that I've seen so far in the game- Madame Mushka's horoscope column in the Four Winds and the magic circle on the floor of the Archdruid's cell. Also, the preview clip I saw for Ep. 3 showed Graham back at the Archdruid's cell, so maybe he'll be providing further exposition on the topic then. I get the feeling those symbols will be back to haunt us later in the game, and it would behoove us to learn them.[/spoiler]
Concerning the Mysterious Stranger
[spoiler]Partly because of the time-becoming-unmoored/running-backwards plot point, and partly because the stranger refuses to show his face or say who he is, I have a strong suspicion that he's someone Graham already knows, come back from the future. My first instinct was Alexander (his experience and continuing interest in magic, his secrecy, the research he'd already done into BCS matters before falling comatose, the great dramatic irony of Graham not knowing his own son), but the more I thought about it, the more I considered Edgar as plausible, too (his frustration at wanting to help the twins somehow, his own hidden past, the mention of him having disguised himself from Graham before, his previous magic use and fairy heritage). One other outside possibility I had considered was a future son of Alexander (Cassima could be pregnant and not even know it herself yet), but that requires more stretching of the narrative and doesn't dovetail as well, so I consider it far less likely.[/spoiler]
Concerning the Remaining Spell Ingredients
[spoiler]The ebony rose will almost certainly come from the Isle of the Beast. It had exotic and magical rose hedges in KQ6, and knowing Beauty, she would want to cultivate them further, and perhaps introduce new varieties...[/spoiler]
[spoiler]The "male subject's strength" will be obtained by following the hints from the legend of Samson and the story of the not-opening of Chessboardland in the Four Winds. In my experience, whenever a game like this gives you seemingly unrelated pieces of exposition like these, you should filter them carefully for hints of what your character is going to have to seek out or emulate from the story. The Green Isles version of Delilah cuts Samson's hair with a pair of shears enchanted with Fire and Earth to take his strength. The Four Winds article mentions a pair of shears being flung into the air during the scuffle and injuring a Winged One. I would not be surprised to discover that these were the same shears, or at least enchanted in the same manner. Graham will probably have to find them either on the Isle of Wonder or perhaps on the Isle of the Sacred Mountain, and use them to cut away a portion of Alexander's strength.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Likewise, I think the clues for getting the "female subject's voice" are hinted at in the tale of the Princess and the Pea and the origin story of Nightshade. In the garden on the Isle of Wonder there's a dried plant that looks like it has peapods hanging from it. I think Graham will have to get one of these (perhaps after restoring the plant to health?) and place it beneath the twins' mattress to get Rosella to stir and talk in her sleep. Then he will have to "catch" her voice somehow- possibly directly in the magic bag, but I think more likely with the nightshade, which can apparently steal someone's "breath"... not just because my metagaming sense knows the nightshade has to factor in somewhere, but also because the Air and Water magic with which the nightshade is imbued makes a perfect symmetry with the Fire and Earth enchantments on the shears (opposing elements, male and female, light and dark... makes sense to me...)[/spoiler]
Thoughts, anyone?
Welcome to the forums, Aurelind!
I'm not going to give anything away, but you do have quite an eye for details!
Thanks! Like I said, I didn't notice half of that on my first playthrough, but I do try to pay close attention. ;D
And don't worry, I wouldn't want you to tell me if I was right. That would ruin the fun! I'm content to register my guesses for the record, debate out my trope-spotting with other players, and wait with bated breath for the next installment...
I'm not going to give anything away, either, but that's a very well-reasoned analysis. Your speculations certainly seem plausible.
The Mythbusters agree.
(http://dog.fpsbanana.com/ico/sprays/mythbusters_plausible_spray.png)
Wow Aurelind! I'm very impressed, I hadn't even thought of some of that!!
Quote from: kindofdoon on November 23, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
The Mythbusters agree.
(http://dog.fpsbanana.com/ico/sprays/mythbusters_plausible_spray.png)
XD
<3 Mythbusters
Quote from: kindofdoon on November 23, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
The Mythbusters agree.
(http://dog.fpsbanana.com/ico/sprays/mythbusters_plausible_spray.png)
I theorize that Jamie and Adam will appear in EP3 totally destroying the continuum of the KQ universe.
Do I win? :suffer:
I hadn't given that much thought to the spell ingredients, but the nightshade one especially sounds right. And I had a similar thought regarding the dead pea pods and the book in the library. It kept bugging me that the game wouldn't let Graham pick up one of the peas. Kind of like how you couldn't pick the nightshade flower in episode one. You knew you needed to, but it just wouldn't let you touch it. Ah well.
Quote from: KatieHal on November 23, 2010, 09:50:30 AM
Welcome to the forums, Aurelind!
I'm not going to give anything away, but you do have quite an eye for details!
Quite an eye indeed, I'd say! I'm very impressed! I'm so bad with the puzzles in any game I keep having to send e-mails out to my fellow team members asking for the solutions... I'm a bad gamer, I know...
To be fair, a number of them have changed over time, especially in Episode 3. :)
Quote from: KatieHal on December 12, 2010, 08:20:01 PM
To be fair, a number of them have changed over time, especially in Episode 3. :)
them being the puzzles?
I CANT WAIT :jester:
Aurelind you sure did put alot of thought into that... my mind melted that was awesomely done thought out theories
Yup! We did a lot of beefing up some puzzles in Episode 3. :) I'm really excited to see how people like it, it's turned into possibly my favorite episode as well! My favorite so far at least, anyways.
awesome thats what i was hoping for
beefy puzzles lol
:rofl:
naw - forreal though, i was hoping the puzzles would make ya think a little more :)
Indeed they will. I'm expecting more requests in the hint forum and more people getting stumped!
Quote from: KatieHal on December 12, 2010, 09:09:10 PM
Indeed they will. I'm expecting more requests in the hint forum and more people getting stumped!
!!!
:hug:
There's a pretty good range of difficulty in the puzzles - I can think of a couple that are likely to stump a lot of people. :D
Some of the puzzles I can't judge the difficulty, since I knew the solutions before the puzzles were actually in the game. That's what I get for reading the code. :P
Well if it's any indication of their difficulty, I have trouble completing them. I keep having to bug Weldon to send me the answers... But yeah, episode 3 has certainly changed over time. A LOT. I think all you fans out there will like episode 3 a lot. A lot of work has been put into it, but it will all pay off in the end. Based on what I've played, it is indeed the best of the episodes so far.
[spoiler]Anyone want more hand trapping wall holes?[/spoiler]
Me! Me! Me! :D
I'd raise my hand but it's still there...
Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 11:22:30 AM
Well if it's any indication of their difficulty, I have trouble completing them. I keep having to bug Weldon to send me the answers... But yeah, episode 3 has certainly changed over time. A LOT. I think all you fans out there will like episode 3 a lot. A lot of work has been put into it, but it will all pay off in the end. Based on what I've played, it is indeed the best of the episodes so far.
There's nothing quite like getting majorly stuck on a puzzle only to find that there's a bug that makes it impossible to solve! :P
Quote from: snabbott on December 14, 2010, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 11:22:30 AM
Well if it's any indication of their difficulty, I have trouble completing them. I keep having to bug Weldon to send me the answers... But yeah, episode 3 has certainly changed over time. A LOT. I think all you fans out there will like episode 3 a lot. A lot of work has been put into it, but it will all pay off in the end. Based on what I've played, it is indeed the best of the episodes so far.
There's nothing quite like getting majorly stuck on a puzzle only to find that there's a bug that makes it impossible to solve! :P
If that's the reason I'm having trouble solving that whole :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: puzzle I'm gonna be pissed. Hey, suffer works rather well for censoring sensitive information!
Quote from: dark-daventry on December 14, 2010, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: snabbott on December 14, 2010, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 11:22:30 AM
Well if it's any indication of their difficulty, I have trouble completing them. I keep having to bug Weldon to send me the answers... But yeah, episode 3 has certainly changed over time. A LOT. I think all you fans out there will like episode 3 a lot. A lot of work has been put into it, but it will all pay off in the end. Based on what I've played, it is indeed the best of the episodes so far.
There's nothing quite like getting majorly stuck on a puzzle only to find that there's a bug that makes it impossible to solve! :P
If that's the reason I'm having trouble solving that whole :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: puzzle I'm gonna be pissed. Hey, suffer works rather well for censoring sensitive information!
it is?
lets see if it does my password
:suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
wow yep works!!!
just kidding ;)
(Posted on: 14 December 2010, 21:47:28)
I am just scanning through and thought id mention a few things that i have not seen anyone mention and maybe that means no one thought about yet...
[spoiler]Random as this may be, EP2 the new cloth store that had no shop keeper, im sure in later EP it will, so does this mean King Graham will buy disguise perhaps?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]As for Daventry, i read in the four winds that king Graham promoted Conner to highest guard rank there. Im sure if anything is going on there, things will be taken care of, and King Grahams kids are to be sent there, thats part of the spell isent it?
the King knighted MacLyrr and bestowed upon him the official title "Guardian of the Realm of Daventry." It was a poignant ceremony, and recalled the days when the King was himself Daventry's most respected and beloved knight. "Connor has proven himself to be a very resourceful young man," the King said. "He showed great calm in the face of extraordinary circumstances, and he has demonstrated that he is both a skilled warrior and a crafty adventurer. The future holds great things for him. I am honored to have him serve in the highest position among my knights."
Rumors circulated that perhaps with both of the King's children in foreign lands, the next ruler of Daventry would be found in a manner similar to King Graham himself. No one would comment on these rumors, but they provide a fitting end to a celebration honoring a hero.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]anyone look at the EP names and tie them in with anything?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]what is this in this picture?
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/kenishere9891/whatis.png)
http://www.postudios.com/fourwinds/iss02-article03-3.html
[/spoiler]
[spoiler] I'm almost convinced the cloaked man is Shadrack. In the trailer, it shows Manannan standing with him (and presumably others) talking about the Silver Cloaks Society. That's the Black Cloak Society. [/spoiler]
They keep emphasizing that Valanice has some big secret, or several big secrets. After much speculation and careful thought, I believe I know what Valanice's big secret is! She can't hide it from me. :yes: It will be revealed that [spoiler]she grew her hair super long and used to throw it out the tower window for an unknown prince (who will have to duke it out with Graham later on) every night and he would come visit her, even though Hagatha didn't approve. Well, she discovered one day that she was *gasp* pregnant with the unknown prince's twins! Thankfully, Graham came and rescued her the day after she discovered this, so she cut off most of her hair and quickly married him. No explanations necessary! ;)[/spoiler]
Quote from: Haids1987 on February 10, 2011, 05:38:52 PM
They keep emphasizing that Valanice has some big secret, or several big secrets. After much speculation and careful thought, I believe I know what Valanice's big secret is! She can't hide it from me. :yes: It will be revealed that [spoiler]she grew her hair super long and used to throw it out the tower window for an unknown prince (who will have to duke it out with Graham later on) every night and he would come visit her, even though Hagatha didn't approve. Well, she discovered one day that she was *gasp* pregnant with the unknown prince's twins! Thankfully, Graham came and rescued her the day after she discovered this, so she cut off most of her hair and quickly married him. No explanations necessary! ;)[/spoiler]
XD while that's all great and dandy, I think you may have gotten Your fairy tales a bit messed up here...
Who's to say, dd, hmmmmmmm? The more I watch the trailer, the more my theory pans out! :yes:
1. "Join King Graham as he unveils his wife's darkest secrets..."
2. "A good-hearted queen cannot have any dirty little secrets!"
3. "Have you told your king about the tower? Oh, that's right...YOU LIED!"
4. The longish braid she's wearing has big potential!
5. "One must be careful with the treasures of Mother Nature..." (this could be in reference to her hair!)
Sounds logical, if I do say so myself! :pleased:
Quote from: dark-daventry on February 10, 2011, 05:48:19 PM
XD while that's all great and dandy, I think you may have gotten Your fairy tales a bit messed up here...
Since when does KQ ever stick to a single fairy tale? :P
Congratulations on your amazing powers of deduction, Haids. That is exactly what happens in Episode 3. :P
And then some. :P
YESSSSSSSSS! *Punches air with fist*
I knew all along. :suffer:
Quote from: Haids1987 on February 10, 2011, 05:58:37 PM
3. "Have you told your king about the tower? Oh, that's right...YOU LIED!"
Excellent voice acting by this guy. Him and Graham are perfectly cast, imo.
You do realize every comment I make is to steer you guys away from the truth, right? I mean, we all know Valanice is really Rapunzel. It's obvious.
LOL, it would have to be an extremely short tower, then, for Graham to climb up on her hair.
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6210/valanice.png)
Quote from: kindofdoon on February 10, 2011, 07:25:49 PM
LOL, it would have to be an extremely short tower, then, for Graham to climb up on her hair.
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6210/valanice.png)
XD No, Graham got Moon Boots. He can jump, and then use her hair for the remainder.
Or he has really long arms. ;D
I LOVE Jay Michaels, who does our bad guy's voice. He is so awesome. Scenery chewing awesomeness!
Quote from: kindofdoon on February 10, 2011, 07:25:49 PM
LOL, it would have to be an extremely short tower, then, for Graham to climb up on her hair.
I already explained this, Doon, her hair will GROW. :yes: That's what the Arch Druid meant when he told Graham to be careful of Mother Nature's gifts--she will make Valanice's hair grow super long! So c'mon, Ceres, snap to it!
:X Somehow that is extremely disgusting.
What? Why?
Eh, I dislike hair, and the idea of it growing so fast is just horrible. Imo, it's just a useless and primitive vestige that humans would be better without. :X
:rofl:
Well, get used to it, 'cause we're gonna see a lot of it in Episode 3!
Quote from: Haids1987 on February 10, 2011, 11:49:57 PM
:rofl:
Well, get used to it, 'cause we're gonna see a lot of it in Episode 3!
Actually, no you're not. Per doon's suggestion to the team, we have now removed hair from every character in the game, including Valanice. Unfortunately, the trailers and screenshots do not currently reflect this change, but rest assured the final product will be hair free.
Also, hair makes a great healing product (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCf0qOC7da0), wouldn't you say?
Quote from: kindofdoon on February 10, 2011, 11:45:47 PM
Eh, I dislike hair, and the idea of it growing so fast is just horrible. Imo, it's just a useless and primitive vestige that humans would be better without. :X
I'm afraid I have to disagree. If this guy had hair in the bald spot, he wouldn't be nearly as ugly or weird looking.
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o156/Jetski527/ugly-bald-men-pictures.jpg)
You're both right. Hair is more trouble than its worth. Life would be easier without it. Unfortunately, some of us would make very ugly bald men. I count myself in that category, though for the record, I'm not as bad as that guy up there. No one could possibly be as bad as that guy...
As for the trailer, I'm very interested to see what Valanice's secret is. My only guess is that somehow she was involved with this evil. Or her family was. It turned bad, so she got locked in the tower. Interestingly enough, Hagatha wasn't the one locking her in the tower. It was some guy (or woman) with gray hair. Almost looks like a judge's wig, actually. Oh, and a troll. It also looks like there was a troll there. But no Hagatha. So there's definitely more to the story here.
Also, that green woman who I've been convinced is Hagatha is floating in the trailer! That seems weird. Now I'm wondering if it actually is Hagatha, because Hagatha never really levitated before. Of course, Hagatha's never really been more than maybe six colors before either, so who knows. My first guess is that it's Hagatha. My second guess is that it's a new character, possibly something like a banshee, and it's blocking Graham's way to somewhere important. Maybe that ginormous tree that's also in the trailer.
Quote from: Damar on February 13, 2011, 09:29:49 AM
You're both right. Hair is more trouble than its worth. Life would be easier without it. Unfortunately, some of us would make very ugly bald men. I count myself in that category, though for the record, I'm not as bad as that guy up there. No one could possibly be as bad as that guy...
As for the trailer, I'm very interested to see what Valanice's secret is. My only guess is that somehow she was involved with this evil. Or her family was. It turned bad, so she got locked in the tower. Interestingly enough, Hagatha wasn't the one locking her in the tower. It was some guy (or woman) with gray hair. Almost looks like a judge's wig, actually. Oh, and a troll. It also looks like there was a troll there. But no Hagatha. So there's definitely more to the story here.
Also, that green woman who I've been convinced is Hagatha is floating in the trailer! That seems weird. Now I'm wondering if it actually is Hagatha, because Hagatha never really levitated before. Of course, Hagatha's never really been more than maybe six colors before either, so who knows. My first guess is that it's Hagatha. My second guess is that it's a new character, possibly something like a banshee, and it's blocking Graham's way to somewhere important. Maybe that ginormous tree that's also in the trailer.
Nice speculation! I always love seeing what the community has to say about the upcoming episodes! You'll find out on Thursday who that woman is and what her connection to the story is. Overall, episode 3 is my favorite of the five episodes so far. I'm loving it. It really starts to tie together some of the loose ends of the series, but also raises new questions that will leave you salivating for more. Believe me, this episode is by far the best one we've ever produced so far. I think the delay was ultimately a good idea; we're still in the process of fixing some major issues, and believe me, if we had released this on the original date, it would have met with criticism for bugs and imperfections. We're trying to squash those bugs. And I think we've done an amazing job so far. Come this thursday, you'll all get to see why the entire team is so excited to release this product. We couldn't be prouder of episode 3!
Puzzle theory:
[spoiler]While desperately trying to figure out one of the puzzles in Ep3 I noticed that peeking into the bazaar area with the clothes had more interaction than just seeing the clothes. You can actually notice carpets there that are (possibly) magic! This has to be the "artifact" to be able to get into the Winged One's city. I wouldn't be surprised if I could "walk" around the city on the carpet and go inside some of the high-up houses. I theorize that some sort of monster is going to be a jerk and try and throw me off the carpet while I'm in the air and kill me![/spoiler]
[spoiler]On the vein of the Winged Ones, I'd be surprised if we didn't see Celeste who will likely be important for some spell ingredient[/spoiler]
i dreamed i played Episode 4 ::) :P
then i woke up :( >:(
Quote from: drusain on February 22, 2011, 09:46:07 AM
Puzzle theory:
[spoiler]While desperately trying to figure out one of the puzzles in Ep3 I noticed that peeking into the bazaar area with the clothes had more interaction than just seeing the clothes. You can actually notice carpets there that are (possibly) magic! This has to be the "artifact" to be able to get into the Winged One's city. I wouldn't be surprised if I could "walk" around the city on the carpet and go inside some of the high-up houses. I theorize that some sort of monster is going to be a jerk and try and throw me off the carpet while I'm in the air and kill me![/spoiler]
[spoiler]On the vein of the Winged Ones, I'd be surprised if we didn't see Celeste who will likely be important for some spell ingredient[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Oh yes- I don't need to be TSL staf to tell you one of those carpets is magical and flying like :) We have to stick it in the Winged one's faces at SOME point during the game ;)[/spoiler]
Wow! It's fun when you guess rightly (at least on the parts of my predictions so far revealed)! ;D Maybe I should go into business with Madame Mushka... ;)
yeah, you got a bunch of those right!!!
After this last cut scene, I don't understand how [spoiler]Valanice could be a Druid, a Silver Cloak, AND the apprentice of a Black Cloak. Nor do I understand how should could have known/helped Graham during KQ1.[/spoiler]
BTW, [spoiler]Who did Graham have to take the magic mirror from in KQ1[/spoiler]?
And who is this fugly troll creature?
[spoiler]She's not a Silver Cloak. Just the daughter of a Black Cloak, which makes her a Black Cloak. She's also descendant of the druids. [/spoiler]
Quote from: mythosopher on February 27, 2011, 10:04:23 PM
BTW, [spoiler]Who did Graham have to take the magic mirror from in KQ1[/spoiler]?
He took the Magic Mirror from the dragon who was guarding it from beneath the well.
Quote from: mythosopher on February 27, 2011, 10:04:23 PM
And who is this fugly troll creature?
Looks like just another fugly troll creature.
Quote from: Cez on February 28, 2011, 12:01:52 AM
[spoiler]She's not a Silver Cloak. Just the daughter of a Black Cloak, which makes her a Black Cloak. She's also descendant of the druids. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I assume its the whole joining dark and light and getting epic babies thing then :) [/spoiler]
Quote from: Cez on February 28, 2011, 12:01:52 AM
[spoiler]She's not a Silver Cloak. Just the daughter of a Black Cloak, which makes her a Black Cloak. She's also descendant of the druids. [/spoiler]
My impression from the last cut scene was that
[spoiler]She's not a blood relative of the Black Cloaks, but that Manannan "adopted" her, in a manner. (Tee hee, Manannan, manners. :P ) I also could have sworn that someone (Ranger?) said she was related to the Silver Cloaks. And when did she ever meet Graham and help him previously?[/spoiler]
Finally was able to find the time to finish episode three. So here are my thoughts.
Quote from: Cez on February 28, 2011, 12:01:52 AM
[spoiler]She's not a Silver Cloak. Just the daughter of a Black Cloak, which makes her a Black Cloak. She's also descendant of the druids. [/spoiler]
Really? I completely missed that. I just assumed that
[spoiler]Valanice was the missing Druid child Fand. I didn't think she was actually Manannan's daughter, just that he took her and raised her. I figured her calling him "father" was more of an emotional reaction, not a statement of fact. Manannan's reaction of "She called me father" seemed to indicate that he was amused, like it wasn't really true. Then again, if he is really her father like you say, maybe he didn't tell her and that amusement was actually amazement that she knew. This would also explain how she wrote Graham's name on the window. Maybe she has the power to see the future.[/spoiler]
also
[spoiler]If Valanice is Faan, and really I think that makes sense regardless. After all, Graham was able to take Faan's candle. If she is Faan, then where is the Arch Druid's sister? Was she also stolen by the Black Cloaks? And if they tried to raise Valanice to be evil, maybe they did the same for her? So check this out: What if the Arch Druid's sister is Hagatha? She's the only other character that we know of that fits the bill in terms of being old and evil.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]It's been revealed that Shadrack is the guy trapped in the stone. I'm not sure how he was sending and receiving letters in King's Quest 6, but no big deal I guess. Post offices in the middle ages rocked I guess. I'm not sure why he's screwing with Valanice though. Maybe he's trying to bring her back to the evil side and she's resisting him. That would explain why he's bringing back her memories, hoping that she will remember Manannan and the fact that she was fond of him and considered him a father figure so that she'll start playing for their team again. If that's the case, no wonder she's in so much turmoil and attempted to kill herself.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]If Graham is descended from Silver Cloaks, is it possible that the Ranger is actually his biological father (or some sort of ancestor?) Actually, let me rephrase that. I think the Ranger is actually Graham's biological father or some sort of ancestor. After all the other Silver Cloaks entered the Zodia Stone to trap Shadrack. But obviously the Ranger is the only one left for some reason. Either he wussed out and didn't enter the stone with the others (which would explain why the bonds failed to hold Shadrack in the stone, and the fact that there are actually 13 zodiac signs, not 12 as 12 Silver Cloaks sacrificed themselves) or he was left out of the sacrifice to keep the line going in case Shadrack ever got out.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Fand wasn't a baby. She's the one who made the candles.[/spoiler]
I missed that. For some reason I had it in my head that the Arch Druid said Fand's parents made the candle. Ah well. And now with the magic of editing I will right my inaccuracy!
Regardless, my point remains. I still think she's Fand.
Dracula hasn't been mentioned yet, but most people miss that he's still alive at the end of King's Quest 2. Even if Graham kills him.
Here's how I think the game will end:
[spoiler]Since Shadrack is the leader of the Black Cloak Society, and all the other members are merely his puppets, when Graham defeats Shadrack, the other members will loose their evil characteristics. Alexander will voluntarily reverse the spell he put on Mananan. There will be a reconciliation between Alexander and Valanice on the one hand and Mananan on the other. Alexander will take comfort in the fact that, although he was not raised by his parents, he was, after all, raised by his grandfather. Perhaps Mananan will teach him more magic and help him be a better ruler.[/spoiler]
Personally, I think that it's rather weird that you're tying the characters together the way you are. I would have liked it better if you had simply given Graham a new villain to fight who had no connection to the other villains. But, given your vision, you're certainly going a great job of realizing it.
Regarding a comment made by others:
[spoiler]I consider it highly unlikely that Graham will sacrifice one of his children. There certainly are numerous examples in mythology of a father sacrificing on of his children to appease a god, for example, Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia to satisfy Artemis. But if POS were to follow the line of the Greek tragedy, they would have Graham sacrifice Rosella, then Valanice murder Graham in revenge, then Alexander murder Valanice in revenge, then Alexander put on trial for murder and get off due to a hung jury, then Alexander discover that Rosella is still alive and living as a slave and rescue her. I seriously doubt that POS would go that line. Perhaps Graham will sacrifice himself, but I would prefer not so dark an ending.[/spoiler]
Judging from the sneak preview of Episode 4
[spoiler]Episode 4 will also be in the Green Isles.[/spoiler]
I do hope that we get to see some other lands before the end of the game. Tamir and Daventry would be nice, and perhaps Kolyma as well.
Well, the place the Tower was in was definitely not the Green Isles. Or Kolyma/the magic island, granted, but definitely not the Green Isles! :)
We will get to see an entirely new land before the game is done.
Heh, and in your Greek tragedy version there, you forgot the part where Alex would somehow marry Valanice without knowing she was his mother first ;)
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
Well, the place the Tower was in was definitely not the Green Isles. Or Kolyma/the magic island, granted, but definitely not the Green Isles! :)
True, but that was in a dream. Plus, at the end of episode 3
[spoiler]Mananan makes the tower disappear from its original location[/spoiler]
so I assume that it was transported to the magic island off the coast of Kolyma where Graham discovers it.
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
We will get to see an entirely new land before the game is done.
Great! Will we also get to see another one of the old lands in 3-D? That was my main reason for playing this game. As I recall, the original plan was to recreate all of the old lands in 3-D, but that would have taken too long, so about 40% of the story was eliminated to allow the game to be finished.
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
Heh, and in your Greek tragedy version there, you forgot the part where Alex would somehow marry Valanice without knowing she was his mother first ;)
That would be the Oedipean cycle; I was referring to the Orestean cycle. No, I wouldn't want to see that in the game, either. Although Aristotle considered Oedipus the king his favorite play, it certainly isn't mine!
So you haven't commented on my guess as to how the game will end. Was I close?
Quote from: fluxmaster on April 17, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
Great! Will we also get to see another one of the old lands in 3-D? That was my main reason for playing this game. As I recall, the original plan was to recreate all of the old lands in 3-D, but that would have taken too long, so about 40% of the story was eliminated to allow the game to be finished.
Hmm...sort of. :)
Quote from: fluxmaster on April 17, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
So you haven't commented on my guess as to how the game will end. Was I close?
:suffer:
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 03:29:02 PM
Hmm...sort of. :)
"Sort of" as in a small part of another land that we can walk around in, interact, and pick up things, or "sort of" as in a cutscene. If we can walk around a small part of Daventry, Tamir, etc. in 3-D, interact, and pick up things, then I'll be happy. Cut scenes don't count.
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 01:35:26 PMHeh, and in your Greek tragedy version there, you forgot the part where Alex would somehow marry Valanice without knowing she was his mother first ;)
Oh barf...please Katie, if you have any sympathy at all, never bring Oedipus up again. ;)
I can't say anything based on the sneak preview of episode 4 since the computer I played the game on was not connected to the internet :wall: and now I am like 300+ miles from said computer (my computer is awesome and bits and pieces of everyone are missing... same with rooms and landscapes it's pretty awesome)
But I'm really hoping...
[spoiler]that Edgar does something in this chapter, given all of his frustrations about not being able to do anything, Titania's hinting that "he may yet surprise us," and the old 'teaser' audio from way back in the day where Edgar was all "What good am I to her? Like this? Well what would you know?" which turned into a conversation with Graham. Ok yeah, I'm just dying to know when that piece of dialogue is going to turn up... I hope it wasn't cut out over the years T.T[/spoiler]
It's more than cutscenes. :) More than that, you'll have to wait to find out! :suffer:
Quote from: Enchantermon on April 17, 2011, 09:52:39 PM
Quote from: KatieHal on April 17, 2011, 01:35:26 PMHeh, and in your Greek tragedy version there, you forgot the part where Alex would somehow marry Valanice without knowing she was his mother first ;)
Oh barf...please Katie, if you have any sympathy at all, never bring Oedipus up again. ;)
:X Especially in the KQ universe.
I solemnly swear the remaining plot of TSL will not turn Oedipal!
Quote from: KatieHal on April 19, 2011, 09:18:05 PMI solemnly swear the remaining plot of TSL will not turn Oedipal!
Oh good... *breathes*
I was looking through the Royal Archives and encountered the following quote:
Quote from: Cesar
During Part 1: Shadows, we visit the Land of the Green Isles, and the enigmatic Dreamworld.
During Part 2, [The Two That Are One] we visit the lands of time, Astratos, The magical Endless Forest and Daventry Castle (Which we'll be able to explore completely)
During Part 3, Eternities, We visit Dreoria, the Land of Dragons, and the Maze of Infinity.
and Kolyma
although we are always coming back and forth to different lands.
So apparently my previous statement that the original plan was to visit all the lands of the previous games was incorrect. Besides the Green Isles, the only other previous lands that we were going to revisit were Daventry Castle (in the middle part) and Kolyma (in the last part); all the other lands were to be new. And we would not even be visiting the entire realm of Daventry, but only the castle.
It would be nice to be able to see the troll bridge, the goat pen, and the ancient well in 3-D, but it appears that we'll never get to do that, unless TellTale games recreates Daventry in 3-D. I was looking forward to walking around Daventry in 3-D in KQ-8, but that Daventry bore no resemblance to the original. Perhaps we'll still be able to explore Daventry Castle, or at least a small part of it, in this game.
Since the wallpaper background to these forums pictures some sort of forest, I assume that we'll be able to visit the magical Endless Forest in episode 4.
That leaves us with Kolyma for episode 5 (and perhaps one or two other new places). Since KatieHal answered "Sort of" to my question, perhaps we'll be able to visit a part of Kolyma in a dream. That would be okay so long as we can walk around there at leisure and not have to rush through an arcade sequence. Since most of Kolyma is simply generic forest, there would be no point in recreating it. Revisiting grandma's house would be pointless. I doubt that there would be any reason to return to the chapel. We might perhaps return to the antique shop if Pandora's box has been placed there. Perhaps there would be some reason to return to Dracula's castle. But, most likely, if we return to Kolyma in a dream, it will be to visit the house where Valanice grew up.
Then there is the possibility that grandma's house
is the house where Valanice grew up. But if Valanice believes that she grew up with her parents, and her mother is Graham's grandmother, then that would make Valanice Graham's mother, or, more likely, his aunt. If this is her dark secret, then learning that Mananan is her real father would release her from this. KatieHal did promise us that the game would not go Oedipal, and, although this would be reverse-Oedipal, I don't think that the game will go this way. Rather, I think the game will most likely end with a visit to Valanice's childhood home which is distinct from grandma's house, perhaps in a dream, to resolve any conflicts left over from her childhood.
EDIT: I just realized that the grandma in KQ2 was Little Red Riding Hood's grandma, not Graham's grandma. So please disregard what I wrote about Valanice being Graham's mother.
One final prediction before episode 4 comes out: Episode 4 will be entitled "'Tis In My Memory Locked. And You Yourself Shall Hold The Key Of It." My prediction is that
[spoiler]the "key" will be the skeleton key found in the drawer in the wagon in the tower sequence;[/spoiler]
otherwise, that entire sequence will have been useless.
[spoiler]Maybe Graham's choice between light and darkness will be more than choose between one of his children. Perhaps to get rid of all evil in that world means he will accept the end of Daventry and all lands, by turning his reality into a fantasy world once and for all.
He would have to choose to transform his real life, memories, experience, friends, Good and Evil, into a mere dream world of fantasy -- pieces of fragments, that we, in this new reality, would know them as 'fairy tales'. And that would be the origin of all myths and the real source of inspiration of Grimm, Anderson, Arabian Nights, etc.
All reality of KQ would turn into fragments of fantasy dreams. The dream worlds would consume their reality by turning it into several messed up 'kid' stories with no relation between them (eg. fairy godmothers, sorcering, little red wood, the Beanstalk, the wonder land, etc.) which, in our new real world (as we know), people would never guess they actually existed and came from the same place - which was 'the world of King's Quest'.
...And that would be the end of Graham's adventures... the king would finally end his quest... until, sometime in the future, a group of archaeologists find a familiar mirror that would show them the true past and would unlocked... ... ...[/spoiler]
OK I was just being random – I don't have any idea how the story will end, but it would be sweet if Graham and Valanice could get their stolen happy youth back.
Another thing that would be interesting was if Shadrack/the cloaked guy was in fact Crispinophur. I'm not saying this because Crispin wears a black cloak, but because in KQ5 the guy (disguised as Santa) passively sent us to Mordack's castle (in hope) that we would be imprisoned with our family, castle and our 3 magic items (yes, maybe he was teaming with Mordak all the time, trying to trap Graham)... or maybe he was testing Graham to see how far he could get (sending a owl spy with him)... or just to see if Mordak could beat us (if not, we automatically would get rid of him).
Anyway, I must tell you what a great game TSL is. I think I like this better than the originals.
Some interesting theories, there, newsblade. And thank you, and welcome to the forums!
This is just an idea to consider for another game, making a space quest 7 :(
If we do ever make another Sierra franchise game we'll be doing it as a commercial effort, so definitely don't expect to see us do any more free fan sequel type stuff.
a SQ7 project would be fun to make together with Murphy or Mandel. Give us some time. We'll eventually and hopefully get there!
Quote from: Cez on November 03, 2011, 06:45:02 PM
a SQ7 project would be fun to make together with Murphy or Mandel. Give us some time. We'll eventually and hopefully get there!
That would be amazing! !!!
Yeah we would most definitely love to work on Sierra stuff more in the future, that would be really great.
According to what the Wizard says to Valanice, it seems to me that time is reversing to help everyone remember their personal pasts.
Since Cez stated that (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=11005.msg330988#msg330988) Joaquin Phoenix was an inspiration for Alexander, I assume that Alex will announce his intention to step down from the throne in order to pursue a rapping career, grow a beard, do incoherent interviews and then later insist that it was all a hoax.
Hmm...
I'm interested in what [spoiler]Shadrack[/spoiler] said during the last bit of the game...
[spoiler]Could Graham be 1,000 years old, somehow? Maybe a reincarnation of one of the Silver Cloaks???[/spoiler]
I think that Graham will end up having the reincarnated soul of the head Silver Cloak which explains Shadrack's words during the fight. Graham is an avatar and when he accepts this and the power in him he will embrace his destiny which is still my original theory that Graham will enter the zodia stone, sacrificing himself to seal Shadrack away for all time.
...and after Graham disappears forever, King's Quest fanboys everywhere will mourn their loss.
I'm worried about the backlash that POS would receive if they actually got rid of the main character in such a beloved and long-running series.
Well, the episode ends with [spoiler]Graham entering Rosella's dream about being sacrificed to the three-headed dragon. (I assume that that was Rosella's dream, not Alexander's, since that was Alexander proving his manhood, and I don't think he would want any assistance in that instance.)[/spoiler] So I take it that Episode 5 will contain scenes of Graham revisiting events from previous games in dream form, but as far as what he will do there, there are a couple of possibilities. One is that he will change past events so that they will not have happened. In that case, he could, for example, prevent Alexander's kidnapping from taking place. However, that would be such a drastic change that I think it is highly unlikely. Another possibility is that he will simply comfort his children in their dreams. However, that seems too lame to be a real possibility. In between those two extremes, what could he do that would be dramatic enough to end the series without totally changing it? I guess we have to stay tuned.
A question: Was the final scene [spoiler]in Cloudland[/spoiler] produced with the new engine and imported into this episode as a video resource? The quality looked very good.
I personally think his Children are being used as props in this game. It may be unfortunate but this is Graham's story and no one is allowed to have character resolution but him! NO ONE!
Which is a shame because I think Alexander and Rosella represent two different facets on this Darkness versus Light and their worlds symbolise this greatly. Not to mention several characters.
Alexander's world is a dark one devoid of life. His greatest fear is that darkness will overtake everything and he is willing to go to the depths and back to protect everyone. He would wish for a safe world where he could settle down (his current hair style baffles me honestly. Given that he is always so proper. But I suspect they wanted him to look better in this game's role)
Rosella's world is shining and bright full of life but frozen and still. Her greatest fear is that everything will stand still and her life will become stagnant and boring. It is why her world is a Frozen bright wonder. It is darkness that has kept her life interesting, that has lead her to Edgar, and why all her greatest fears are settling down.
-Extra: While she is often compared to Graham as the "female graham" there are rather large differences. Graham was adventerous but only so far that he was willing to go out of his way to help others. While Rosella certainly shares the family altruism, she however has wonderlust and Graham had a deep sense of duty. As well Rosella doesn't have as much of a desire to "get herself dirty" as Graham, nor the physical conditioning.
Also I think that Graham will turn out to be Shandrack so to speak. It would make sense if Graham was ultimately the villain in some way.
I also DO hope Valanece gets herself out of that tower. I can just picture the scene in my head. The Old Valanece speaking to the Young about their experiences. The Young one speaking about the futility of her situation and how she needs to be saved, but the Older Valanece talking about her experiences.
In otherwords Valanece coming to grips with her past and how she is a much stronger person now and that she is needed far too much to sit still. Then other stuff, but that gets into how I view her role over the other characters.
QuoteAlso I think that Graham will turn out to be Shandrack so to speak. It would make sense if Graham was ultimately the villain in some way.
No. Just... no. Why? Why?! Why would he attack his own children? Why would he try to kill himself by zapping himself with lightning and magic? We've known for YEARS that Graham is NOT a magic user like Alexander! He fell asleep in his Magic class at school.
Why would he torment his own wife? He loves her!
Y'know, everything else you've said up to this point, I've agreed with or thought at least, "Huh. That's interesting!" but that?!
No. Just... no. I don't see how that would be possible.
He may not have actually had a choice. As well remember, it is Graham... he "Cannot lose"
Okay, if he doesn't have a choice, then who made him do it?
I would have bought that, if we'd ever seen any Darkness in Graham before.
But, we haven't, and I think it would be simply awful if the hero of King's Quest for three games, the kindest, most just and fair King of Daventry that the land has ever known, the one who started the whole Adventure game genre in the first place... turns out to be a bad guy.
I'm sorry Neonivek, but for once I can't agree with your theory.
It isn't so much that he is dirrectly the bad guy but that he more or less is the cause of everything that happened.
For example what if he made a wish for a life of adventure.
Though another possibility is simple.
The Black Cloaks were all imprisoned. That hasn't changed. Valanese is a daughter of the Pandora bloodline (the only remaining blackcloaks in existance)
All the current Black Cloaks are actually Ex-Silvercloaks who were corrupted by their own power and Graham is in fact not evil because he purposely relinquished his magic and chose to live the rest of his life as a peasant (Erasing his old memories). The Remaining "good" Silvercloak who helps him is actually Edgar who knows what he knows because he learned it from his Aunt (another Blackcloak who is an ex-silvercloak). Edgar being a character who has always remained good, just easily fooled.
Or... possible the current Black Cloaks are in fact what remains after each gave themselves up to seal the old black cloaks and Graham is the villain because he got afraid and retreated into his own fairytale. Thus over time the Whitecloaks became corrupted and seek to free the Blackcloaks and Graham needs to remember who he is and complete the seal. (But that wouldn't work because it would eliminate Graham's choice)
So many possibilities.
I just think the reveal may not be glamourous. This is a fairytale land. Perhaps Graham created it.
I do think Graham will have to make a choice between Light and Darkness... and that somehow neither of those choices will be the right one.
I somehow suspect that the Silver cloaks will not be as "Angelic" as they seemed in Fairytale.
...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! XD Oh man, that... would one of the worst endings to a series ever, to find out that everything we've known about the world, about Graham, about the lore Pheonix Online has thought up over the past few years, and everything they've worked so hard for... was all a lie.
Perhap an alternate ending would be good for that, but the actual concrete ending for King's Quest? No. Just no.
Nah, it's actually going to turn out that this was all an Inception-style scheme pulled on King Edward to persuade him to name Graham his heir.
I am going to forgo the "No I mean this" several times until I explain myself well and just to "fine whatever" and then leave in a huff.
Quote from: KatieHal on November 02, 2012, 08:01:51 AM
Nah, it's actually going to turn out that this was all an Inception-style scheme pulled on King Edward to persuade him to name Graham his heir.
Katie! You're not supposed to give away the plot! :shame:
For some reason, I now have this image in my mind of Shadrack dramatically announcing "WE NEED TO GO DEEPER!" while lightning crackles in the background. And this image strikes me as being very funny, possibly because I'm very sleep-deprived right now.
I don't know if I'd laugh or cry out of patheticness if the develops make that a joke ending.
It REALLY isn't... what I meant.... UUUUUUGH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Quote from: Neonivek on October 27, 2012, 11:49:06 PM
I also DO hope Valanece gets herself out of that tower. I can just picture the scene in my head. The Old Valanece speaking to the Young about their experiences. The Young one speaking about the futility of her situation and how she needs to be saved, but the Older Valanece talking about her experiences.
So even though I don't agree with your theory, I did kind of see some merit to it.... but this part confused me.
The tower's a flashback. If Valanice gets
herself out of the tower, she never meets Graham. She never marries Graham. Alexander and Rosella cease to exist. Edgar is never freed from Lolotte. Cassima is never freed from Mordack. Manannan is still human. Abdul Alhazred rules the Land of the Green Isles. Etheria is destroyed. Oh, and Daventry may have been destroyed by a three-headed dragon.
I mean, yes, it'd be nice to see some of the heroic streak we know Valanice has in her. It'd be nice to see her overcome her own demons in episode 5 -- which I think(?) is what you meant?
I don't think we really want her to free herself from the tower though. :P
I think the tower is more of a metaphor and is also a memory.
I also don't think her escaping herself as a change to her never meeting Graham but rather of her becoming the type of person able to define and shape her own destiny and reality instead of having it dictated to her.
QuoteIt'd be nice to see her overcome her own demons in episode 5 -- which I think(?) is what you meant?
Well yeah, which is what I picture the symbol of her escaping the tower represents. She didn't free herself nor did she try to save herself back then.
She breaks herself out of the tower in order to save Graham. Meeting him across the trials he himself had to traverse.
QuoteI don't think we really want her to free herself from the tower though
I actually think it couldn't happen anyother way really. It is the ultimate symbol of how much of a pawn she was turned into and how complacent she was with whatever destiny thrown her way... with how hopeless and alone she was but at the same time doing nothing to change things herself.
This is not about her escaping the tower herself and never seeing Graham. This is about her escaping the tower and meeting Graham on equal footing so to speak. I fully believe if Valanece escaped that tower herself she would have still met Graham (and with a LOT less murderous danger for poor Graham)
Awww! :)
I get what you're saying now, and I like it... but I also think that might make it Valanice's story, rather than Graham's. That said, we've already had the opportunity to play as Valanice once.
Quote from: crayauchtin on November 04, 2012, 10:14:33 AM
I get what you're saying now, and I like it... but I also think that might make it Valanice's story, rather than Graham's. That said, we've already had the opportunity to play as Valanice once.
Ultimately Graham's story is tied up with his family.
I don't think Valanice becoming a better person from all her experiences and being together with Graham would detract from the story but in fact make it strong. Especially with how Graham talks, at the start, about how their experiences made them stronger as a family.
It is why I somehow suspect that Graham's role in the dreams of his children won't be to save them but to find ways for them to save themselves.
QuoteIt is why I somehow suspect that Graham's role in the dreams of his children won't be to save them but to find ways for them to save themselves.
See?!
THAT makes a lot more sense than what you said earlier! When you mentioned earlier that Graham the only one who would get character resolution, I feared you were suggesting the worst...
Yeah that negativity came out of hearing "This is Graham's story" over and over again until I started to believe it in the worst possible sense (especially the way it was being used.)
Yet really, all that should mean is that Graham is the main character but not that he is the only important one.
I suspect that crazy theory of "Graham is REALLY the villain!" also came from that?
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on December 01, 2012, 09:23:28 AM
I suspect that crazy theory of "Graham is REALLY the villain!" also came from that?
No, it came from the knowledge of what the Silver Cloak's ability is which is to create "Dreams come true" and then I just have to ask this question: "What if Graham wished for a life of adventure or peace after the fall of the black cloaks?".
Thus Graham becomes the source of everything that has happened and thus inadvertingly became the villain. Shandrak may even be the product of him needing to be the villain.
It is that Graham through his actions caused all the pain and strive him and his family have gone through. That is what would have made him the "villain" so to speak.
Shandrak either being an opportunist who is taking advantage of Graham's amnesiac state or a victim of the dream come true.
Or, on the other side of the spectrum: he could be wishing for a life of adventure and peace after the Silver Cloaks fell, so he'd be able to reincarnated as Graham and begin a new life.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on December 01, 2012, 02:42:55 PM
Or, on the other side of the spectrum: he could be wishing for a life of adventure and peace after the Silver Cloaks fell, so he'd be able to reincarnated as Graham and begin a new life.
It is even possible that Graham wished that all the Silver cloaks to be gone after they won because they became just as bad.
Making all the remaining black cloaks to be ex-Silvercloaks. (I think the extra silver cloak man is Edgar for some reason)
So many possibilities.
Pride is a dangerous thing, no?
But, what I meant was: with Graham being reincarnated from Leo, he can stop the second coming of darkness, hopefully NOT sacrificing himself like last time, and being allowed to live again in the form of Graham.
Hmm... I wonder what made Leo choose him of all people out of thouands of others to be reborn as?
It is likely that Graham exemplifies the virtues that Leo held dear.
Someone good and couragous. Like a Idealised version of King Richard the Lionhearted.
Kind and Couragous, strong and witty. A purehearted individual who considers the plight of the lowliest beggar in equal weight to the most affluent noble. Capable of showing sympathy to even the worst criminal. While his every intonation is kind there is an undercurrent of strength allowing him to command those not through force but by the ties he makes.
A Lion with the heart of a lamb.
The Exact opposite of a black cloak and one who could never be corrupted by power, even absolute power.
I REALLY should do a character analysis topic.
*smiles* And THAT is why I never believed your "Graham is Shadrack Theory", because what you just wrote there matches perfectly with the Companion, and it just... doesn't feel right to have the bravest and kindest man the Realm of Daventry has ever known as both a Knight and a King, be the one they were supposed to be fighting this whole time.
I'm sorry, Neon. But that theory just doesn't sit well with me. Forgive me.
The Graham is Shadrack Theory was more about the possibilty that Shendrak could have been born from Graham inadvertingly.
For example perhaps the Silver cloaks started to become corrupt including Graham and in order to seal it off he had to cut away his evil and essentially start anew. Shendrak being the dark part of Graham who grew darker and more evil since then.
Or perhaps he really did turn into Shendrak and was saved by turning into Graham leaving the husk of Shendrak behind. Giving a reason why Graham doesn't have Silver cloak magic and why he would have to give it up.
That somehow Graham created Shendrak
But I do agree that I was grasping at straws. I believe that Graham and Shendrak have some sort of connection and a reason why Shendrak would want to manipulate instead of outright killing Graham.
As well as a possible climax where Graham breaks the cycle himself with all the strength he gained though his many adventures.
So basically I am just crazy.
Aren't we all?
I do think you are probably right.
Graham does seem like someone who could never be corrupted by power.
...Excuse me... I need to wake up.
*BANG**BANG**BANG*
Now, say that again in more detail. I must be dreaming.
I can admit I am wrong, I will rarely say it in the midst of conversation, but I like to reach a point where I am completely assured of my mistake before I do so.
...................
What made you realize your mistake? I didn't... force you to make that decision with my constant disagreeing, did I?
It happened by consistantly exploring Graham's character and the ideas behind the game in general.
I mean to my knowledge there has never been magic to make someone act against their personality (though you can trick them into thinking they were other people)
And unlike Space Quest, Quest for Glory, and The Island of Doctor Brain... Kings Quest doesn't share its continuity with any other gmae.
I really hope Graham won't die :-\
I'd rather not have ANYBODY die!
Not even Shadrack?
...I KNEW someone was going to ask that!
*sigh* I meant the good guys. I highly doubt just sealing Shadrack away again will work, since as has been shown, seals weaken over time. This guy HAS to die!
I'm just hoping Graham doesn't die as well, nor Alex or Rosie or Valanice. That would put a damper on everyone's mood if it's discovered that one of those of the twins will never wake up. Edgar would be forever alone, or Cassima would be a widow and the Isles would be without a King.
Whatever happens, I hope that peace can be accomplished with diplomacy, love, and little bloodshed.
Whoa...sorry, thought I was Stephanie Meyer for a minute there.
LOL
hahaha, that's good Numbers. I like that.
As for death speculation, my mouth is zipped :suffer: :-X
I'm sure he'll turn up as a zombie, zombies "in" this year, right?
I think I warmed up a lot more on the "Valanece kicking a butt" part.
I think I was more against the idea that she HAD to kick butt as a way to complete her character, that she had to become some sort of warrior in order to be a valid character cause to me she always was a very strong character in her own right and that it was trading her strong character for just another Graham or Rosella.
Yet I kind of see now that just because she gains power it doesn't mean it takes anything away from her character and that she can demonstrate it without becoming a new character herself (Not to mention, she has more then enough character and plot reasons to be pretty mad). The Silver Lining is about both Graham and Valanece discovering themselves and the depths of their resolve and abilities. It is about the past, future, and the ever after.
Especially since my idea for how she could escape from the tower was pushing her desk down the stairs and decking that monster off and am REALLY hoping she saves herself. *fingers super crossed*
I have a feeling that in the spirit of KQVI, there will be several different endings (not just because of KQVI, but also because POS' more recent endeavors seem to have taken a darker turn... These Amnesia and Silent Hill-type games seem to be driving the trends these days... eep).
Anyhow, I suspect there will be many possible endings - Graham chooses to save Alexander, Rosella, or sacrifice himself to save them both. Not sure how Valanice will fit in there, but in the most general sense, I think Graham is going to have to choose one child over the other or sacrifice himself to save both, so that's 3 endings right there.
I think it's gonna get all kinds of dark and heady up in there, and I think it's gonna be awesome sauce.
Urgh! I'm sorry, but I HATE those theories that say that he can only save one child!
If he only saves Alex, then Edgar will be unhappy and the wedding scene will be POINTLESS!
If he only saves Rosie, then the Green Isles will be without a King and Cassie will be a frigging WIDOW!
Same goes for Graham sacrificing himself!
Is Episode 5 Dead of the Silver Lining
Um...no, I'm pretty sure episode 5 is not titled "Dead of the Silver Lining." (Hark, do I smell the birth of a zombie/Silver Lining crossover?)
Oh wait, you're asking if episode 5 isn't going to be released? The team has emphatically stated "yes" many times now.
And GrahamRocks, there are plenty of instances in fiction in which a terrible decision must be made, or a character's sacrifice becomes ultimately pointless. They're called tragedies. TSL is based on the works of Shakespeare (allegedly). What was Shakespeare most famous for?
Sorry, but not every story is going to be tied up in a pretty little bow. That may have been the case when the official KQ series was doing its run, but TSL is a product of the 2010ish era, and standards have changed. That's one reason Twilight is so reviled--no big sacrifices need to be made, no ultimate showdown, no casualties whatsoever. Twilight is sugary sweet, optimistic, and as such, incredibly behind the times. Hunger Games is a more accurate representation of today's gritty standards, and if you get bummed out about the trials and tribulations of fictional characters, you'll want to stay far away from it.
Long story short, TSL is more cruel, twisted and depressing than the rest of the KQ series, because that's just how stories are nowadays. And something tells me it's only going to get worse in the final chapter, so everyone better steel themselves up for it.
If they go down that route with the ending, I'm gonna be PISSED!!!
Am I in denial? If I am, I don't care!!
Oh, and speaking of Twilight, do you like seeing that horrible excuse for literature torn apart and analyzed book by book by a woman who hates the series with a passion? I recommend Das Mervin on Livejournal. She's just about done with Breaking Dawn and has done other sporkings of books too.
To be honest, TSL has enough tragedy in it right now that uncovering the full tragedy is enough without killing family members. What I'd like to see is Graham interacting with each of his children in the dream sequences to uncover more and more truth now that we have all of Valanice's story. I'd like to see the ultimate showdown at the very end be the royal family fighting side by side even if the twins are 'evil' in some way for part of the battle.
I'm curious about the Ranger still though. We really don't know anything about him. I'd REALLY love to know who he is and how he fits in the story.
I brought up what I've been saying to a friend of mine on Facebook and he had this to say:
If TSL isn't tied up 'in a pretty bow', then it's been a complete waste of time, because EVERY f***ing KQ game has a feel-good ending.
But even KQ8 had a darker feel to it, but you still save the day. JUST because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't mean you take and completely s*** on the whole values and basis of the whole series. If they end up killing off one of the twins, I will 1) not play the rest of the episodes 2) not consider it part of even the fan canon and 3) lose all faith on Phoenix.
It's NOT their IP to take and kill off any of the main characters like that as it is.
And this is coming from a guy who hasn't even played past episode 2 IIRC.
Agreed :) This is to say, if this is a multiple endings game that I don't mind if there is a family death in one of THOSE endings- not the true ending version. I don't mind if the ending is tragic with them.
I'd be VERY upset if the real ending was a tragedy though. After what the family has been through, I'd love to have feels over a happy ending :)
I would be the *blush* censored friend GrahamRocks spoke of. I stick to my points, and I'm going to add that yes, I'll accept a death as a possible outcome as one of many 'bad' endings, but the *true* ending, the good ending, should be as KQ has always been - Good triumphs over Evil and everyone lives. Otherwise, what's the point of making a KQ game if it doesn't have the same spirit as the rest of the series?
*squees* Ori!!! :D You're here! Yay!
Phoenix doesn't own the KQ IP at all, thus they can do whatever they want with the characters. They could turn Graham into a duck and you'd have to accept it. Get over it and stop getting so butthurt over the insignificant things in life. If you're taking fiction this seriously, it speaks volumes about your mental health, or lack thereof. And GrahamRocks, stop bringing other people into this just so you outnumber me. The popular opinion is not always the correct one.
And for the love of Christ, enough with the "Internet screaming"--ending every sentence in multiple exclamation marks. It is beyond grating.
Huh, wow, somebody seems butthurt that an opinion is different than theirs.
You see, the point is that because it's NOT their IP, that's exactly why they shouldn't take extreme liberties with the characters. And I wouldn't have to accept a thing, it's called 'not playing the game' - nothing to get over if I find the work they've done to be either sub-par or completely off the source material. It might be 'insignificant', but these games and series hold a dear part in a lot of our hearts.
It also seems that you don't like GrahamRocks (at least in this thread) just because of a contrary viewpoint, and then get antagonistic with her. Such a lovely thing to do. And just because it's YOUR opinion, doesn't mean it's correct either. Something you should keep in mind. And then to start criticizing because of one use of extra exclamation points... somebody really needs to take their own advice and stop getting butthurt over insignificant things, because it speaks volumes about your mental health.
(See what I did there?
Really man, calm down, I've not seen that much negativity in two small paragraphs in a LONG time. Cripes.)
We almost never agree on anything, except vanilla ice cream is the best, and he gave me really good writing advice as harsh as it was. :) So, I appreciate that from him at least.
But otherwise? He is my foil. My antithesis. Everything I like, such as the voice acting in the games (which while 5, 7 and 8 I can get even though I don't mind them, but TSL and 6?!), KQ7, and the SW prequels (at least I think that was you who linked me the Distressed Watcher vid? Or was that Lamb?), he hates. He told me that there's "something that rubs [him] the wrong way" (been trying to find that post for months now actually), and while I can't really give you an answer on the "basing my opinions just because a reviewer said it and not forming my own" I CAN give an answer for the clowns and Atop The Fourth Wall thing.
Simply put: Clowns NEVER scared me, and I've never understood why people are afraid of them. I miss friendly clowns in media, and Atop The Fourth Wall just furthered my point in why I don't freak out at them.
Seriously, Clowns creep me out... how could ANYBODY find them amusing when they look like the painted embodiment of childhood fears.
Eh. To each their own. They still don't scare me.
And how come you never b**** at me for taking liberties in my stories, Numbers? Then again, I have no idea whether or not you've even read my Quest For Glory one.
Turning Graham into a duck would be HILARIOUS though, since it reminds me of KQ2+, which is a game I loved.
The Phoenix Online crew can do what they'd like with the characters and if they want to kill someone, that's up to them. The King's Quest games have stayed with us for nearly 30 years for a reason though- emotional investment. Telling a fan to not be emotionally invested in a fictional character is like telling them to leave the fandom. Yes, they can kill a character but you know what? There are fans out there that will care that their favourite character got axed off by a fan game- canon or not. It's fun to explore the many deaths of King Graham, but it's only because we know that things will work out in the end if we do it right. That's how the King's Quest games have been up till now, and that's why it'd be upsetting if the happy ending we're use to became less than feel good. And TSL is no more darker than the other games IMHO. It might feel darker cause perhaps the censorship laws made them tone down the intensity in previous games, but the undertone was always there.
You guys know I can never back down from a good confrontation. Also, I think the best way to have responded to my comments would have been to post this picture...
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003169925/2730482626_9215150_xlarge.png)
...with Graham's cap photoshopped on the duck's head.
Btw, GrahamRocks, don't feel singled out by my antagonism. A lot of people rub me the wrong way for some reason or another. It's just that the clown thing seemed pretty obvious to me, given that I have been following AT4W for quite a while now, and Linkara's statement about how clowns aren't scary stood out to me for being so patently false for so many people. For every non-ironic clown in fiction, there are about 50 that are aliens, criminals, monsters, supervillains, or are just malevolent entities in general.
I never said anything about hating the SW prequels. That was Damar. And from what I can tell, Damar hates every science fiction movie that's ever come out in the past 15 years, so take from that what you will. I remember Bludshot brought up the Red Letter Media vids, but I accept those more as comedy than gospel. There are definitely things I hate about the prequels, though. *cough Jake Lloyd cough* But we've been over that subject a thousand times.
And no, I haven't read your QfG stuff. I mostly skimmed through your KQ5 story, just enough to know that Lamb would hate it. I wonder where he ran off to...
*reads post* Fair enough.
I KNEW it felt weird that I thought you sent me that video. Thanks for clarifying!
oh, you follow AT4W too? Cool! :)
It would be interesting GrahamRocks if the game set up Graham's sacrifice and he is going to go through with it until the other Daventry family members stepped in and reversed it.
The key is mainly that thematically the way the typical Kings Quest game ends isn't going to cut it, because the simple happy ending is how every game ends and that all just feeds into the endless cycle of danger.
Something needs to break the pattern. Which is why I like the idea of it being a sacrifice, at least set up to be a sacrifice, since that has never happened in Kings Quest before and would break the cycle.
I can picture it now...
(Graham prepares to seal Pandora's Box and sacrifice himself to save the world, when suddenly...)
Cedric (flying in out of nowhere): No, Graham, stay away from the--*flies inside Pandora's Box accidentally, thus sealing it and saving the world*
Graham: Wow, Cedric accidentally did something useful again!
Crispin (teleports next to Graham): I have the solution to all your problems! *He conjures up a block of concrete and seals the Box inside of it, before teleporting it to the bottom of the ocean*
Graham: You do know Cedric was inside there, right?
Crispin: ...oh well. I'll miss the little squirt.
(Suddenly, the rest of the Royal Family appears on the scene.)
Graham: My ecstasy knows no limits!
(Everyone stares at him.)
Graham: Well, it seemed profound before I said it out loud.
(A hot air balloon touches down next to them, unoccupied.)
Rosella: What's that doing here?
Graham: Oh, it was important for a puzzle. And for continuing the King's Quest tradition of the Anachronism Stew trope.
(Much of the supporting cast appears.)
Saladin: I, and the entire world, would like to congratulate you for the highest honor of--
Lt. Shorty: You really showed 'em what for, your MAJUHSTEE!
Saladin: Shut up, b*tch, I'm talking!
(Everyone falls silent as Connor, in all his majestic glory, descends to the ground in a pillar of light.)
Graham: Oh...you're still in this story?
Connor: Why hasn't thou summoned me, forsooth?
Graham: Because your brute force would've beaten the Black Cloaks super easily and completely destroyed any tension in the plot? That's why you were relegated to that floating Pandora rock temple in the first place. Also, the scars from your game still haven't faded from the minds of the King's Quest diehards.
Connor: Thou hast forsaken mine kickassery for thine? A pox on thee! But I must leave. A nearby planet calls for aid, and aid they shall receive. *He summons a black hole over his head* To Mars! *He enters the black hole and teleports away in a spectacular display of special effects*
Graham: My heavens!
Valanice: Oh my goodness!
Alexander: Zounds!
Rosella: Holy s**t!
(Everyone turns to Rosella, appalled.)
Rosella: Sorry. I'm one of those modern princesses. They're "in" right now.
Crispin: Well, because Deus Ex me is here right now, everything is back to normal! Even the Winged Ones aren't crabby anymore! Why not celebrate with a feast?
(Everyone nods in approval and heads off towards whichever castle they belong to. And from the watery depths of the ocean comes a plaintive cry...)
Cedric: Graham, help me!
Ha ha! Wasn't that great?! No, I'm not drunk right now, why would you ask that?! You're drunk!
*Re-reads previous post a day later*
Oof...wow.
I thought it was funny, Numbers. :)
QuoteShut up, b*tch, I'm talking!
Good pun!
That might be simultaneously the best and worst thing I've ever written. I'm not sure what was in those happy pills, but evidently, they did their job.
What the team CAN do with the KQ IP and what the team WILL do are very different things. Remember that they are big fans of the series, and if they were to do something drastic like killing off a major character (I won't tell you whether they will or not - you'll have to wait and find out for yourself. :suffer:), they would have to provide some pretty serious justification for it.
So, Suffer, we meet again.
*draws sword*
Quote from: Numbers on March 28, 2014, 02:28:25 PM
So, Suffer, we meet again.
*draws sword*
:suffer: :stabs:
Looks like Suffer's days were...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Numbered.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Quote from: Numbers on March 28, 2014, 03:55:30 PM
Looks like Suffer's days were...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Numbered.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :rofl:
Yes, Snabbott. Justification is nice. Give me a damn good reason. ;)
Quote from: Numbers on March 28, 2014, 03:55:30 PM
Looks like Suffer's days were...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Numbered.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Lol - nice!
Theory:
With the reopening of Sierra and the announcement of a new KQ game, this non-canon game won't work in continuity if they kill off any of the main cast. Graham is talking to his granddaughter, Gwendolyn, in the new game being released. (Official press release here: http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=865807 ) - Nobody can die, except maybe Valanice.
Another theory: Expect the release of this new Sierra game for the release of Episode 5 now. Cause we've all waited this long, what's another year or two?
Dang it I like Valanice.
I will admit her only game outing didn't do her any favors (because her gimmick is that she is a fish out of water and completely out of her element)... but I HATE it when games kill off characters because they are unpopular.
I am always someone who believes that no matter how bad a game was or how geeky that... it should be fondly referred to in the games as just one part of the whole story.
My theory of what's to come next from tsl...nothing :-[
Quote from: Orion on August 12, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
Nobody can die, except maybe Valanice.
Another theory: Expect the release of this new Sierra game for the release of Episode 5 now. Cause we've all waited this long, what's another year or two?
Yeah... called it - got the new KQ before TSL5.
I can picture them scrambling to make things work now that we've got Gwen and Gart being the kids of Alexander and Rosella. And Valanice makes a few appearances as well! (Yay! They can't kill her like I suggested!) The fact that characters are alive means that nobody of the royal line can be offed in TSL.
Quote from: Orion on July 29, 2015, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: Orion on August 12, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
Nobody can die, except maybe Valanice.
Another theory: Expect the release of this new Sierra game for the release of Episode 5 now. Cause we've all waited this long, what's another year or two?
Yeah... called it - got the new KQ before TSL5.
I can picture them scrambling to make things work now that we've got Gwen and Gart being the kids of Alexander and Rosella. And Valanice makes a few appearances as well! (Yay! They can't kill her like I suggested!) The fact that characters are alive means that nobody of the royal line can be offed in TSL.
Naw they can... TSL was meant to be a "ending"
And frankly the new Kings Quest game is a... uhhh... reimagining of the first game and POSSIBLY the second as well.
They can still do whatever they want with TSL, since it was conceived before the revival of the series came about. So don't pitch a hissy fit if something bad happens to the royal family members, because they've already written out the whole story now and they're not calling the voice actors back for re-shoots.
Quote from: Numbers on July 29, 2015, 09:59:57 AM
They can still do whatever they want with TSL, since it was conceived before the revival of the series came about. So don't pitch a hissy fit if something bad happens to the royal family members, because they've already written out the whole story now and they're not calling the voice actors back for re-shoots.
Won't pitch a hissy fit - just won't take TSL seriously if they do such a thing.
QuoteAnd frankly the new Kings Quest game is a... uhhh... reimagining of the first game and POSSIBLY the second as well.
It looks like it's Graham through the years - a different age of his life per chapter. Here's a gif I put together of his portraits when you hover over the option for forthcoming chapters.
(http://www.legendsofglory.com/Graham.gif)
I will always take TSL more seriously than that piece of donkey sh*t that TOG just made.
Quote from: Numbers on July 29, 2015, 02:36:35 PM
I will always take TSL more seriously than that piece of donkey sh*t that TOG just made.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
We won't be making any changes to reflect the TOG KQ in Episode 5.
That would be for the best. I'm pretty sure they'd sue.