POStudios Forum

Haven => The Asylum! => Topic started by: Haids1987 on September 23, 2010, 12:16:16 PM

Title: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on September 23, 2010, 12:16:16 PM
How do you not already have a thread in the new forums, my multi-lingual friend?  ???

This thread is all yours.  I know you're going to have 4,936,947,512 pictures to share with us from living in Ireland, so I made a place for you. ;D

You're awesome, Delling!  So glad you're here!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: snabbott on September 23, 2010, 12:59:18 PM
Yay! !!!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: dark-daventry on September 23, 2010, 01:56:07 PM
Hey, congrats on getting your own thread! I'm so happy to see the trend I revived is starting to catch on!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: atec123 on September 23, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Hey, congrats on getting your own thread! I'm so happy to see the trend I revived is starting to catch on!
of making people's threads?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: waltzdancing on September 23, 2010, 10:21:06 PM
I haven't seen Delling around in a while. I wonder if he knows about this thread yet?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on September 24, 2010, 08:53:30 AM
Just wanted to make it known that Delling is awesome  ;) Especially the grammar and multiple languages. I really respect anyone with that much linguistic know-how  :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on September 24, 2010, 12:25:00 PM
I haven't seen Delling around in a while. I wonder if he knows about this thread yet?
I dunno, but I miss him. :(
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: atec123 on September 24, 2010, 12:43:27 PM
I haven't seen Delling around in a while. I wonder if he knows about this thread yet?
I dunno, but I miss him. :(
He was online eariler today according to teh forrum.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on September 24, 2010, 05:42:05 PM
Hmmmm...curiouser and curiouser...
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on September 26, 2010, 04:57:43 AM


I haven't seen Delling around in a while. I wonder if he knows about this thread yet?
I dunno, but I miss him. :(
He was online eariler today according to teh forrum.

Yeah, I was on the forum VERY briefly in the middle of doing other things. *has been on vacation and then has been busy with grad work and (ongoing) immigration bureaucracy*

How do you not already have a thread in the new forums, my multi-lingual friend?  ???

This thread is all yours.  I know you're going to have 4,936,947,512 pictures to share with us from living in Ireland, so I made a place for you. ;D

You're awesome, Delling!  So glad you're here!
Gracias Haids! :D

Just wanted to make it known that Delling is awesome  ;) Especially the grammar and multiple languages. I really respect anyone with that much linguistic know-how  :D

*feels the love* Oh... that's the sunlight from the window. :P Well, it still feels awesome. XB Also, is that an invitation to post a bajillion pictures I see in there? :D I think I'll just link to the albums on Facebook when they're done. :P


Hmmmm...curiouser and curiouser...
:D Lewis Carrol quotes FTW! :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on September 26, 2010, 03:33:41 PM
Yaaaaaaaay, Return of the Delling!  Welcome back!

Also, is that an invitation to post a bajillion pictures I see in there? :D I think I'll just link to the albums on Facebook when they're done. :P
Of course!  This is your thread, Delling, and we all want to see your Ireland pictures!  (At least, I do! :))
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on September 30, 2010, 06:13:27 AM
oh do you now? :evil:  :suffer: MWAHAHAHAHA :suffer: :devil: ahem... I mean, I'll have to get Rome finished up soon then. *makes a note to do that when he gets back from Taekwondo* :)

(Posted on: September 27, 2010, 01:45:01 PM)


*literally and physically made that note... and then didn't do it*

*needs space to grouse about something*

I have been going through a bunch of Linux help threads around the internet and this one rather helpful guy (he posts A LOT) has this in his siggie:

"Mundus vult decepi, ego non "

I hate it when people try to be cute or clever and get things terribly wrong!

That is not Latin! That is gibberish! I thought I'd gone insane when I first saw it! (which is why I hate it when people do this... I end up having to roll SAN checks).

What he meant was: "Mundus vult decipi, ego non" which means "The world wishes to be deceived, not I." What he said was: "The world wishes **blank** I have deceived **blank**, not I" (with these massive blanks left for the complements of the verbs).

There are TWO independent verb forms in the sentence (Can a sentence have TWO verbs with neither a conjunction (to mark a compound verb or sentence) nor some form of subordination?)? No, it can't).

Please, if you're going to say something in Latin and you aren't consciously trying to make Dog Latin, PLEASE get someone who actually KNOWS Latin to check out what you're going to say.

Now that I've had my little tirade, I would like to ask about everyone else's pet peeves. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on September 30, 2010, 02:01:48 PM
People who put shoes on their bed!  Ugh.  It's almost as bad as sitting on a pillow you sleep with...:X

Oh, and side note: Delling, how do you say "caring" in Latin?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on September 30, 2010, 06:21:42 PM
Well, it depends. The most basic way to translate it would be "curans". It depends on how you're going to use it in a sentence too (matters of case and all that).


People who put shoes on their bed!  Ugh.  It's almost as bad as sitting on a pillow you sleep with...:X
Gah... I hate both of those too!!

My bed is not the floor and my head goes on that, thank you very much!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 01, 2010, 11:56:17 PM
Well, it depends. The most basic way to translate it would be "curans".
Thanks!  How would you pronnounce it?

My bed is not the floor and my head goes on that, thank you very much!
TOTALLY!  It completely grosses me out when I see someone with their shoes on the bed.  I have to change my sheets if someone does it on my bed!

And the pillow thing...ugh.  It reminds me of on Knocked Up when they all get pink eye from...such an event (sort of. :no: )
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 02, 2010, 06:02:18 AM
Well, it depends. The most basic way to translate it would be "curans".
Thanks!  How would you pronnounce it?

koo-rans oo as in boot and the a is pronounced between the a in apple and the a in father (just treat it like a schwa ;P)

If you'd like to know more about pronouncing vowels, there's always this chart (just search "vowel" on wikipedia):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png)

(The u and the a in curans are pronounced as the u and the a on the chart.)

The More You Know (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Enchantermon on October 02, 2010, 09:17:10 AM
The More You Know (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg)
Classic! ^_^
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 02, 2010, 12:30:25 PM
Haha!  Thanks, Delling.  I appreciate it. :)

And as to another pet peeve--when people sing the abc's to toddlers, and they don't separate "l, m, n, o, p" and say them as "lmnop."  Are you kidding?!  Tods can't follow that!  (I work directly with toddlers, so that gets on my nerves more than it does with normal people. :P)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 02, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
What you don't like Elimenopi who lives in the middle of the alphabet?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 02, 2010, 05:45:26 PM
Nooooo!  He confuses my kids and makes them mumble that part of the alphabet! :devil: Poor kids.  And when you try to do the abc's in sign language, it's even more confusing for them 'cause they think that Elimenopi is one letter.  :no:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: LadyTerra on October 02, 2010, 05:54:38 PM
We should come up with a better song.  Maybe to the tune of Gilligan's Island?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 02, 2010, 05:56:36 PM
Y'know, crazily enough, that might actually work.  Try it, it kinda flows. :yes:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on October 03, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
Idiots who don't use the subjunctive properly. ::)

Also, idiots who butcher adverbs. Idiots who contract words that should frankly never be contracted. Idiots who butcher pronouns (I/Me/Myself isn't difficult! Honestly!).... Let's just go with "Idiots", shall we? :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 03, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
Nooooo!  He confuses my kids and makes them mumble that part of the alphabet! :devil: Poor kids.  And when you try to do the abc's in sign language, it's even more confusing for them 'cause they think that Elimenopi is one letter.  :no:
Ah, yeah, I remember people not realizing that Elimenopi is actually several letters. See, we were taught the alphabet and to sing the alphabet song with those old alphabet cards (the ones with the upper and lower cases and a picture of something that started with the letter) all arranged across the top of the wall at the front of the room. So, I could always SEE that Elimenopi was 5 letters and not one, so it was never a problem for me.

Idiots who don't use the subjunctive properly. ::)

Also, idiots who butcher adverbs. Idiots who contract words that should frankly never be contracted. Idiots who butcher pronouns (I/Me/Myself isn't difficult! Honestly!).... Let's just go with "Idiots", shall we? :P

Ah, we've identified your pet peeve then: idiocy. XD

Out of curiosity (and because I've forgotten and because you're afk on gmail atm), have you gotten to the optative in Greek yet? *is a fan of the optative usage of the subjunctive (as found in Irish Gaelic and Classical Latin)*

For those of you who don't know, the optative is this wonderful mood that is used to express wishes! :D (It is precisely as cool as that makes it sound. If that doesn't make it sound cool, I don't think I can help you. :-X)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Jafar on October 03, 2010, 11:03:05 AM
I never had a problem with L-M-N-O-P myself (Maybe it's an enunciation thing?), but the conversation makes this come to mind. :P

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/RetroJafar/ElementalP.png)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on October 03, 2010, 02:58:25 PM
Quote
For those of you who don't know, the optative is this wonderful mood that is used to express wishes!
Woah! :o What a fantastic idea!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 03, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/RetroJafar/ElementalP.png)
Haha, that's awesome!  I love that even Roberta is in on this. :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on October 05, 2010, 07:35:33 AM
No subjunctive yet. :( Also, no dual forms. :(
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 05, 2010, 07:49:28 AM
Not even the subjunctive yet!? :o

The subjunctive is RIDICULOUSLY EASY! It is not 1:1 with Latin but is fairly close (There are no potential and no jussive subjunctives in Greek: the former is assumed by the optative and the latter is wholly provided for by the third person imperative and hortative (chiefly first person plural) subjunctive.) The subjunctive may be formed simply by lengthening the theme vowel (thus, instead of omicron/epsilon, one has omega/eta) and contracting as necessary. Mayhaps I'll drop you an email with the subjunctive in it sometime.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on October 07, 2010, 07:15:54 PM
We didn't even get to the subjunctive in Latin until I'd been taking the class for two years. :P They have this odd thing going where they make you learn all the tenses first and then branch out into moods (though they introduce the imperative fairly early on, actually).
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 08, 2010, 06:55:03 PM
On kind of the same note, my math teacher says things like, "That is neither right or wrong."  GAH.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 08, 2010, 07:03:23 PM
On kind of the same note, my math teacher says things like, "That is neither right or wrong."  GAH.

*dies a little inside*


We didn't even get to the subjunctive in Latin until I'd been taking the class for two years. :P They have this odd thing going where they make you learn all the tenses first and then branch out into moods (though they introduce the imperative fairly early on, actually).
Have you learned the third person imperative yet? (made by adding omega in place of the epsilon at the end of the 2nd person plural for the singular and then adding either -san or -te (it varies) to the resulting form for the plural IIRC)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 08, 2010, 07:04:28 PM
On kind of the same note, my math teacher says things like, "That is neither right or wrong."  GAH.

*dies a little inside*
Haha! :D  And he's got his master's, too.  So depressing.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 08, 2010, 07:16:32 PM
On kind of the same note, my math teacher says things like, "That is neither right or wrong."  GAH.

*dies a little inside*
Haha! :D  And he's got his master's, too.  So depressing.
*dies a little more inside*
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 08, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
Don't die inside so much, Delling!  If parts of you keep dying, there won't be any of you left!  :o
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on October 09, 2010, 06:00:19 AM
Why does no one speak English properly anymore? :'( (Not you, Delling. :P)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 09, 2010, 04:24:43 PM
People must not respect the English language.  :-\ It be hard to speak goodly, I guess.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 09, 2010, 05:03:15 PM
gah! W H Y ! ?

Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on October 09, 2010, 05:03:57 PM
To annoy you. :devil:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: crayauchtin on October 10, 2010, 12:49:16 AM
Cuzz of it is wicked too hard to speak gooder than this.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on October 10, 2010, 10:44:59 AM
Allow me to point out that ENGLISH IS UNDECLINED! And thus, as far as Indo-European languages go, pretty easy. I have enough faith in the people here to believe everyone here capable of speaking English properly.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 08, 2010, 05:43:19 PM
Allow me to point out that ENGLISH IS UNDECLINED! And thus, as far as Indo-European languages go, pretty easy. I have enough faith in the people here to believe everyone here capable of speaking English properly.
This really is high praise coming from Deloria. ;P Usually she has no faith or patience in people's ability to use language properly and just stabs them or pushes them into the Seine or off the Alps or throws them into the Thames... whatever's convenient really. :P *tried to convince her to stab the error and not the person... this however just led to the stabbing of rather innocent Greek accents for hopping around too much* :P

I made a pie, if you haven't seen it in any of the various other threads in which I posted it. :P

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs575.ash2/149749_712025553049_12815110_38946118_3524994_n.jpg)

I was rather ecstatically pleased with how the meringue turned out. ;D :pleased:

A few things did go wrong but you can't actually SEE them in this photo (nor do you really taste them in the pie :P)... which is why I'll make another pie soon to further perfect the technique, and thus the pie photo spamming shall continue MUAHAHAHAHA!!...erm... I mean... I'm not crazy at all... :pokerface: :whistle:

In other news... I think my first fb album from my trip is finally almost done! :D So, pics for "Ubi in Roma..." forthcoming... shortly... maybe... I hesitate because I seem to think I said this before. :P

That leaves a Florence album, a Venice album, and likely a Milan/Paris album.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on November 08, 2010, 05:45:15 PM
Whoa baby, you're pretty proud of that pie! :D

But then again, you should be.  It's perfect, and meringue is hard to perfect!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 08, 2010, 05:52:31 PM
It also gives a me a reason to spam the forums. :P :whistle:

*considers :whistle: to be a sort of *whistles innocently**

I just realized... I must make pie on March 14th. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on November 09, 2010, 04:22:01 AM
You're in Europe now. :P Write dates properly. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on November 09, 2010, 12:01:07 PM
I just realized... I must make pie on March 14th. :P
When I was in ninth grade I had a math teacher whose birthday was March 14th.  We made her a bunch of pie and someone made her a cape with Pi on it.  Itwas pretty sweet.

Sweet as pie...you might say... :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: snabbott on November 09, 2010, 03:00:52 PM
You're in Europe now. :P Write dates properly. :P
Yes - be sure to make pie for April 31st! :P Or for the 3rd of the 14th month, whatever that is. ;D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 09, 2010, 03:59:36 PM
but... but... "30 days hath September, APRIL, June, and November"... but then I'm sure you're aware of that. ;)

Also, I actually have numerous pie recipes: chocolate chess pie, this chocolate cream pie, a pecan pie, and my roommate wants to make a lemon meringue pie... oh, and somewhere I have my grandmother's chess pie recipe... what I'm saying is that I should make ALL OF THEM for Pi Day! :D I could get my grandmother's lemon icebox recipe over Christmas break too! :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: crayauchtin on November 09, 2010, 10:44:21 PM
Europe must be so sad with no Pi Day. :(
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: LadyTerra on November 09, 2010, 10:53:35 PM
That's a really beautiful pie.  Meringue looks intimidating to work with.  Did you use a hand mixer or a stand mixer?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 10, 2010, 03:51:23 AM
That's a really beautiful pie.  Meringue looks intimidating to work with.  Did you use a hand mixer or a stand mixer?

worse: a whisk! :pleased:


Europe must be so sad with no Pi Day. :(

They have an e day tho': 27/1. Unlike the US... February comes nowhere close to 71 days. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: kindofdoon on November 10, 2010, 06:14:34 AM
They have an e day tho': 27/1. Unlike the US... February comes nowhere close to 71 days. :P

Too bad! The same is true with the Golden Ratio day...
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: snabbott on November 10, 2010, 08:22:54 AM
That's a really beautiful pie.  Meringue looks intimidating to work with.  Did you use a hand mixer or a stand mixer?

worse: a whisk! :pleased:
Wow - that's impressive. Either a hand mixer or a stand mixer works well - it's really not that hard. A whisk, though? My arm would be dead long before there was anything even vaguely resembling meringue! :o
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 10, 2010, 08:57:40 AM
Either a hand mixer or a stand mixer works well - it's really not that hard.

We have neither... actually, we didn't have a whisk either. :P So, it came down to buying either a whisk or an electric mixer (and I'd really have liked a stand mixer, but $_$... so, whisk it was :P).
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on March 01, 2011, 10:05:42 AM
So, we learned the forms of the optative yesterday. :P


....MY VERB TABLE FOR PAIDEUW IS FIVE PAGES LONG!!!! FIVE!!!

I miss Latin. :(

EDIT: My verb table is brilliant. :P No one may tell me I've wasted precious hours making it. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on March 01, 2011, 03:31:56 PM
AND no one should!

But FIVE pages? I'm almost certain I get my full Greek verb tables done in three or four. ;P

The beautiful thing about Latin is how neatly the complete conjugation of a verb fits onto a single page!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on March 01, 2011, 05:20:51 PM
I know!! And it's so regular!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 30, 2011, 10:40:02 PM
Well, I'm done. It took forever. There was terror and stress; there were anxiety and panic attacks aplenty (some assignment induced, some contingency induced), but my first year progress report is D O N E!

On the one hand, this means I LIVE AGAIN! On the other, it means I now get to fear the question of whether or not I survived or did well enough to keep my fellowship. :-X

I know the finished project is shaky and rocky. Not polished or impressive. I know this. I can no longer care about this. I could hardly motivate myself to work on the bloody thing, much less deal with the minutiae now that it's DONE. But, the sad thing is that while I can't be motivated to WORK on the minutiae, I need no motivation to WORRY about the minutiae.

Anyway, I'm up. It's 5:30am. The project that has been a drain on my life for the last several weeks and that I have--probably masochistically--allowed (or made) to blockade things like video games and other pursuits (languages, etc.) out of my life is DONE. I am probably too jacked up on coffee to go to bed and even if I could go to bed, I'd want to get up in like 4 hours to go into the office anyway... so, yeah, a little pointless. As it is, I will go into the office, print my paper (I think it has to be done in triplicate... there's your first sign that something's wrong: they want your assignment in triplicate), get it covered in the office (my adviser's suggestion), possibly get talked into assisting with school kids (hey, kids, we're going to talk about electricity while I'm worse than hung-over: exhausted and running on like 4-6 hours of sleep in the last 60 hours!!), and then right about when that ends, I should crash completely and utterly. Maybe pick up another 4 hours of sleep then. Then, Capoeira, then video games and all those things I've missed so much whilst paper consumed my life.

I was going to post something along these lines on facebook, but then I decided that there were certain people that I wouldn't want to see it (mostly my parents :P ...why am I friends with my parents on facebook again!?). Somehow I thought you guys would understand. XD :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on May 31, 2011, 07:24:32 AM
We do! :D Welcome back to the world of the living! :D

Also, please don't think I'm avoiding you. :P I'm drowning in exams. :P

(Posted on: 31 May 2011, 15:23:51)


Cuzz of it is wicked too hard to speak gooder than this.
See, this isn't annoying. :P The problem is when people don't realise they're saying things that make no sense. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on June 19, 2011, 04:46:42 AM
That's a really beautiful pie.  Meringue looks intimidating to work with.  Did you use a hand mixer or a stand mixer?

worse: a whisk! :pleased:
Wow - that's impressive. Either a hand mixer or a stand mixer works well - it's really not that hard. A whisk, though? My arm would be dead long before there was anything even vaguely resembling meringue! :o

The meringue is the most labor intensive part and separating the eggs is the most intense/annoying part. In other news though, I made homemade whipped cream last week! :D (also, with just a whisk) It certainly seemed to take FOREVER! (I had to tho'--they apparently don't have flavored whipped cream here (like not even sweetened)... and I find that pecan pie is best when topped with Cool Whip and when one is drinking coffee :D)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on June 19, 2011, 04:59:42 AM
Which flavour did you use? :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 26, 2012, 05:14:08 AM
I had all these epic ideas of adding cocoa maybe--live dangerously!--some vanilla... I ended up doing plain sugar. :P But one of these days... chocolate whipped cream! :D

(Posted on: June 19, 2011, 12:24:14 PM)


I'll just leave this here... *walks away innocently*  :whistle:

Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 180 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Oy, I 'ear ya but it's MY thread!! *dusts off thread* :yes:

_____

So, recently in a different thread on the forum, there was a brief exchange about bisexuality, and I was going to chime in, and then I didn't, and then Rosella chimed in, and Deloria followed suit, and again I felt like I really should respond too. (Melville, eat your heart out.) So, I started to respond and the response just flowed. But, it flowed kind of torrentially and deluge-like so that when I felt I was done, I realized that what I had written was a major overreaction to the content of the actual exchange.

So, I opted to just email it to Deloria instead. XD ...she however felt I should still post it. XD Since the post is very personal and since if people wanted to ask more questions or discuss certain points of the post I'd rather that were done in this thread or by PM, I figure posting it here is better.

_____

To answer Ms. Deloria
She's bi and simply put its a turn off. Most bi folk I have known since high school tend to be way too under-sexed to stay faithful in a relationship. I have been cheated on enough.... But I suppose you could say I have  presumptively assume between the pot and bi-ness, her dropping out school and general gut feeling....that she is not in my best interest.

Yikes. I don't want to start a flame war here, but that sort of made me a bit sick to my stomach.
Being bisexual doesn't mean you can't get enough so you'll do it with anyone. I mean, to be perfectly honest, if a girl really wants to put herself out there, there are usually enough guys interested. :P But honestly, with people who are genuinely into both sexes, it's a lot like being into both brunettes and blondes. You like both, but you don't feel like, when you're with a blonde, "Man, I need some brunette lovin' on the side to keep me satisfied." I understand if you didn't think she was your type (the choices she's made seem sketchy at best), but being bisexual and having a high sex drive aren't necessarily related and honestly, neither is having a high sex drive and cheating. Bisexuality isn't a choice that people with loose morals make to get more, it's a sexual orientation.

:hug: Rosella ;]

also :hug: Deloria :)

I feel like I should do this outside of spoiler-tags.

I have to thank Rosella for weighing in on this because I am bi and earlier didn't do it myself because I'm not out on the forum. (Mostly because the LGBT community seems to think that this magical thing happens when you COME OUT... but it really doesn't... you're going to meet a lot of people after that in your life and most of the time, most of us aren't going to be wearing a badge... ::) ...also... fair warning to any heteronormative homophobes: we don't wear badges! :o le gasp, etc.)

So, yeah, I'm bi, and I've had to deal with counselors and therapists telling me "oh, you're just indecisive" and "you haven't really settled or accepted that yet" and in one particular case, I've dealt with the assertion that as a guy who is into guys, I will be prone to frequent and random sexual encounters, because I can because the consequences are lessened because we're guys. ::) Seriously... you went to college to get a degree to help people and all you got is this run-of-the-mill pedestrian claptrap!! >:( :no: (which isn't even to get into the familial side of things... the less said about that, the better)

I was also raised Christian and I still identify with Christianity and as a Christian and I still have pretty much all of those morals intact: my God!!--it's as if liking members of the same gender does not immediately strip you of all sense of sexual and moral proportion and turn you into a sex addict!! :o Alert the presses!! ...oh... they know... are you sure? Oh... so it's just the South then... okay. (This is overselling it.)

I have only had 1--that's ONE, uno, une, unus, una, unum, heis, mia, hen, aon, 一个--relationship that went beyond even kissing... in fact, it's also pretty much the only relationship that went as far as kissing. It was awful and the guy was terrible (in oh so many more ways than one). And I had to put up with all the "you're undecided", "you're really gay; you just don't know it yet" BS from him too... alongside a bunch of other terrible and hurtful crap. And when he broke up with me, he tried his damnedest to push me into running around and gaining some "sexual experience" ::) --to the extent that the first conversation we had post-break up was his googling a gay bar in Atlanta and giving me the address more or less with the implication being "go get laid and get over me". :wall:
I s*** you not.
...
Also... and I hope this isn't a spoiler: but read between the lines a little--I didn't do anything of the sort!!


So, I understand that you are speaking from your own experience, ladidada, but please add this to your experiences: all bisexuals are not promiscuous cheaters who are going to run around on you, can't commit, and won't respect the boundaries of your relationship (不,那为了废人在这个世界). It is just as unfair for you to paint all of us with that brush as it would be for me to consider all Christians as bigoted and backwards fools who just scapegoat on the sins of the clobber passages because it's easier than dealing with their own inveterate sins. (Uhm... I'm saying that I don't do that and that one should do neither... I am NOT, repeat NOT, attacking Christians... 'twould be silly... I am one ::))

While we're at it, you may include: "bisexuals exist" and "not all Christians are heterosexuals". :yes: (That these have to be pointed out to ridiculously high numbers of people is both telling and scary.)

And to be fair to you, ladidada, her drug issues and education issues (which to me generally signals self-esteem problems as well) would have made her unattractive to me too.


dang... if only I could get this much writing done for my litreview. XD

_____

feu... back to work...
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on April 26, 2012, 05:42:15 AM
This post has so much win! ;D I was going to point out moments where I couldn't help chuckling at your wit or applauding your level-headedness, but there are just too many. XD

And it's always frustrating and demeaning when somebody says "You're just undecided" or some other variation of "Yes, I definitely know exactly what's going on inside your head! Better than you do! You disagree? But then you'd be *wrong*!" >:(

Oh, and kudos for not going to the gay bar. Not because gay bars are bad, of course (they're not) but because that sounds like another massive instance of this "I know you better than you do" cr**.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Rosella on April 26, 2012, 09:25:23 AM
:hug:

I find that a lot of problems with being bi come from getting judged from both the straight and the gay communities. The straight community thinks you're either lying to get attention or just horrible for being into the same sex (*gasp*) and the gay community thinks you're trying to keep one foot in the closet to remain socially acceptable (like that helps) or that you're really going to end up as one of those "breeders" eventually, so you're just fooling around with the same sex.

My ex came out to me a bit ago and I was kind of homophobic at the time, not in the heterosexist way of "Gay people are wrong," but just in the weirded out way of "two guys kissing seems oogie." He naturally found this very amusing and exploited it at every turn, leading to overexposure and now I'm fine with it (though still not turned on by it as some people expect me to be...?). :P

My first reaction was primarily one of discomfort in being afraid he'd be gay (Again, not because being gay is wrong, but because it doesn't say good things about the health of his relationship with me), but the more he explained it to me, the more it made sense. If you like two things, you're not going to suddenly decide somehow that you're not into one. Arbitrarily closing a door doesn't really make any sense. It's terrible, Delling, that actual trained counselors don't understand that. Especially since in this generally monosexual society I find most people think they're bi as a last option. (Wait, I'm into dudes. I guess I'm gay? Wait, no, I swear I still like chicks. Maybe I'm straight. Wait. I can be into both?)

And I LOVE that assertion that homo-/bisexual guys (with no women to hold them back, because, as you know, women never want sex) are just writhing piles of sex all the time, with no concern for anything, in front of children, in their job. Nothing can stop them. ::)

And I think the big deal with coming out is that usually when you come out to one person, it makes it easier to come out to others. My ex explicitly came out to all of his friends at the time and in college he won't refrain from making comments about the attractiveness of guys, but like you said, he doesn't exactly wear a badge. XD

I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to post this, and it was great to know your story. It's seems pretty clear that you're at a point now where you're comfortable with who you are and don't need outside reassurance, but for what it's worth, I've been there (from a different perspective, being straight, but still). You can find reassurance here. :)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on April 26, 2012, 10:09:08 AM
I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to post this, and it was great to know your story. It's seems pretty clear that you're at a point now where you're comfortable with who you are and don't need outside reassurance, but for what it's worth, I've been there (from a different perspective, being straight, but still). You can find reassurance here. :)
Basically what I was going to say, but Kelsey said it so much better. :)

I'm sorry that you've been twisted around by so many people telling you that what you feel isn't "real" or "normal," Delling. What a pain! And you know, I'm sooooooo glad that you pointed out that being gay or bi doesn't make a sex-crazed perv. I get so tired of the stereotype that, because someone is bi or homosexual, they immediately don't have the same morals as straight people. What difference should it make?

In any case, people are people and we need to respect one another regardless of what we believe. I've always liked you, Delling, but now I respect you even more for not only being brave enough to talk to us about it, but also to stand up for what you believe in and be kind, mature, and well-versed. You're awesome!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: writerlove on April 26, 2012, 11:20:36 AM
I'm glad you felt comfortable to tell us this , Delling :) Thank you for being honest and sharing with us. I'm straight but don't judge if someone is bi/gay/q****/etc. To me, Love is love and it should be accepted in all forms. We can't help who we love and it shouldn't matter.

as it would be for me to consider all Christians as bigoted and backwards fools who just scapegoat on the sins of the clobber passages because it's easier than dealing with their own inveterate sins. (Uhm... I'm saying that I don't do that and that one should do neither... I am NOT, repeat NOT, attacking Christians... 'twould be silly... I am one

I totally agree with you here. There's this huge stereotype that Christians hate gay people. That is not true. It's the loud mouth bigots who make the rest of us look bad. *sigh* Treat me with respect and I will do the same for you. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: KatieHal on April 26, 2012, 11:54:40 AM
I just want to offer support and props to you folks for being comfortable and certain in who you are, not giving in to others' labels, and being so supportive of each other as well. This is why our forum is awesome. :highfive:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 26, 2012, 04:19:29 PM
Aww... thank you, Haids and writerlover! :D

You give me hope that there are good Christians out there.

:hug: Rosella!

That sounds rough, but it also sounds like you grew a lot from it. :)

Especially since in this generally monosexual society I find most people think they're bi as a last option. (Wait, I'm into dudes. I guess I'm gay? Wait, no, I swear I still like chicks. Maybe I'm straight. Wait. I can be into both?)
Yeah, there was a time in my life, a dark time, a scary time in a bad place--a time we shall call... HIGH SCHOOL!! DUN DUN DUN Wherein all of these supposedly Christian people were divided into two groups: the ones who were actively calling me "gay" (and they weren't that nice about it...) to my face, making lurid suggestions, and all of this other stuff, and the ones especially the authority figures who weren't doing anything about it whether they agreed with it or not (I lost all respect for my history teacher when he sat there one study hall, watched them saying these things to me, and then afterward, having said nothing to them, told me "just don't let it get to you" :wall:).

Prior to high school, I'd only ever been really interested in girls (I think I had noticed guys before but never really dwelt on it), and in the midst of all of this, I did find that I had some attraction to guys... I definitely spent many of those years doing the "am I? amn't I?" dance (where the adjective after either of those could be "gay" or "straight"). Then, sometime towards the end of college when I didn't have to care so much about the definitions of others any more (because it wasn't a daily conflict any more), I took a step back, looked at my actual feelings, and just said "look, basically, you like girls, you like guys, you're bi: deal with it and let's move on".

And Katie, this forum is awesome. :yes:  :highfive:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: GrahamRocks! on April 26, 2012, 07:25:56 PM
It could have been a lot worse, Delling. You could have been a sheltered person who never interacts with anyone (internet wise or physically wise)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on April 26, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
You give me hope that there are good Christians out there.
:hug: We've talked about your history in the church, and it breaks my heart that there are people near you who make it seem unauthentic. A true person of faith (any kind of faith, Christ-centered or not) loves and accepts all people.  I'm sorry that those around you who call themselves Christians and judge have given a bad name to those of us who actually try to follow the Word. <3

(I lost all respect for my history teacher when he sat there one study hall, watched them saying these things to me, and then afterward, having said nothing to them, told me "just don't let it get to you" :wall:).
:argue: That (wo)man should have never been given a teaching certificate. Especially now, when schools are supposed to be so bully-conscious and be raising kids up instead of the opposite. >:(
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 27, 2012, 03:45:00 AM
It could have been a lot worse, Delling. You could have been a sheltered person who never interacts with anyone (internet wise or physically wise)

Oh, I am pretty bad at interacting with people in person :yes: for various reasons that weave in and out of this issue.

(I lost all respect for my history teacher when he sat there one study hall, watched them saying these things to me, and then afterward, having said nothing to them, told me "just don't let it get to you" :wall:).
:argue: That (wo)man should have never been given a teaching certificate. Especially now, when schools are supposed to be so bully-conscious and be raising kids up instead of the opposite. >:(

:highfive: yeah, it was a private Christian school and I'm pretty sure he'd been teaching since before the 90's push to have all teachers certified. :-X (Scary thought, huh?) Private schools tend to lag behind on standardization like that as well.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on April 27, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
We should all band together and soap the windows of his car.  Then in lipstick we could write, "JUST DON'T LET IT GET TO YOU." :devil: I'd fly there for you, Delling! :yes:

On a completely unrelated topic, I had a random thought this morning and knew that you and/or Deloria would be the perfect people to ask: so I'm going to this memorial tomorrow, and I was thinking about the word eulogy. It sounds ridiculously Greek, and got me wondering where its roots lie. Tell me, o wise one, where did it come from? :scholar:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 27, 2012, 10:11:08 AM
As for my history teacher, I'm over it.

Now, then, you have asked a question that's right up my alley (and part of the original purpose of this thread (as I said back on like page 1 :P)):

So, eulogy: Firstly, your intuition that it is Greek is correct. :) It has two of the big hallmarks of Greek-English borrowings/coinings: eu- which means "well" and -ology/-logy- which we see crop up all over the place to mean essentially "the study of...". In this case, however, -logy is serving closer to its original Greek λόγια- the act of speaking, :scholar: from the o-grade noun λόγος + abstraction suffix -ια from the e-grade verb λέγω- I speak. Hence, ευλογία is "the act of speaking well" or "the act of speaking well of..." as this is ideally what we do when we give a eulogy: we speak well of the dead. :yes:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on April 27, 2012, 10:28:38 AM
;D See, I knew you'd be the person to ask. Thanks, Delling. That's a good thing to remember tomorrow when I'm listening to people "speak well of" her.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on April 27, 2012, 01:14:48 PM
Most etymologies are more interesting because their stems are hidden or have changed drastically over the years through passing through multiple languages and evolving in those. :) That one's fairly direct/simple because it was borrowed into Latin and then directly into English.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on April 28, 2012, 04:41:59 AM
I got the "logos" bit!!!! :D Studying Greek tragedies DOES have a purpose! XD

Oh dear, now I have to go and study Greek tragedies again. :( Fascinating but tiring.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Haids1987 on April 28, 2012, 11:55:56 AM
Oh dear, now I have to go and study Greek tragedies again. :( Fascinating but tiring.
XD But they're usually worth it! Exhausting, yes. I agree completely!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: DawsonJ on April 29, 2012, 04:02:24 PM
Eu- of Eulogy is the same as the positive meanings in the words Euphoria, Euphemism, and Euthanasia. Correct?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 30, 2012, 03:05:11 AM
Yes, indeed. Its opposite is generally dys-.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: snabbott on April 30, 2012, 08:40:38 AM
Eu- of Eulogy is the same as the positive meanings in the words Euphoria, Euphemism, and Euthanasia. Correct?
Not to mention Eukaryote. :scholar:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Rosella on April 30, 2012, 11:11:55 AM
Then someone explain prokaryote? XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 30, 2012, 11:24:16 AM
In this context, "pro-" means before. Since the "karyote" can be taken to mean "having a nucleus", the relationship implies the assumption of evolutionary biologists that "prokaryotes" as a form of cellular life predate "eukaryotes" (there's also the tacit implication that this was an evolutionary dead end since more complicated organisms are exclusively composed of eukaryotes).
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: snabbott on April 30, 2012, 11:52:04 AM
In this context, "pro-" means before. Since the "karyote" can be taken to mean "having a nucleus", the relationship implies the assumption of evolutionary biologists that "prokaryotes" as a form of cellular life predate "eukaryotes" (there's also the tacit implication that this was an evolutionary dead end since more complicated organisms are exclusively composed of eukaryotes).
I don't know if I would say that - prokaryotes do pretty well for themselves as single-celled organisms. Fun fact from Microbiology: there are more bacteria in your body than there are human cells.

And then there are the Archaea...
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on April 30, 2012, 01:29:47 PM
Oh, it's not something I necessarily agree with. It's just a common oversimplification, the sort of statement made flippantly in a high school bio classroom. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on May 28, 2012, 03:17:03 AM
This is in response to the KQ3 redux thread.

Ah, so is "saw" > "would" a valid construction? I would have assumed it were only valid if it were written "the truth you would have seen", but that's just going from my own instincts as an English speaker rather than my grammatical knowledge (which is sadly closer to nil than I'd like).

Also, a caesura is not technically a foot containing only one stressed syllable. I think the effect you're describing is:

And so we stopped. "Man the boats!" he cried.

There's an elided syllable between "stopped" and "Man". This does lead to a caesura, but this is not in itself a caesura, because caesurae can occur in other places. For example:

And so we crept away; but as we crept

Here there's a caesura between "away" and "but", caused by the semicolon. The versification is still perfectly intact - it's a pretty much perfect line of iambic pentameter with all its feet present and correct - but there's still a noticeable gap in the middle.

A better example (and one which I haven't made up) comes from Marlowe's Dr. Faustus:

See, see where Christ's blood streams in the firmament!

This is a really striking line because the caesura comes so early: after only one syllable. I went to a poetry discussion group a few years ago where the poet in residence pointed out that this image of blood dramatically streaming out of the sky was one Marlowe brought up a number of times in his career as a playwright, and that each time there was a caesura in the line, as though one was needed to give it the right dramatic force. And as he played with this line and this image, the caesura moved further and further away from the centre of the line, until here it's right on the edge, as though the first "See" is a declaratory cry (perhaps to the audience but perhaps just in panic), and the rest of the line just sort of streams away in terror, mimicking the streaming blood.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 28, 2012, 04:52:54 AM
This is in response to the KQ3 redux thread.

Ah, so is "saw" > "would" a valid construction? I would have assumed it were only valid if it were written "the truth you would have seen", but that's just going from my own instincts as an English speaker rather than my grammatical knowledge (which is sadly closer to nil than I'd like).
Consider this example lifted from a grammar site: "If I went to a friend's house for dinner, I would take a bottle of wine or some flowers." We might add: "Back in those days..." because modern listeners/readers are more comfortable with these constructions when describing something which has changed in the present, but the point remains the same--it is possible to construct (thanks to the analytic/periphrastic nature of the English future tense) a form that conflates past and future, giving us a sort of "past-future" which stands between "back then" and "right now". It is in fact this conflation of the past and future which is responsible for the glossing of the construction as "conditional".

We wouldn't complain if the original read: "If you saw me, you would see the truth". Well, "If you saw me, the truth you would see" is grammatically equivalent to that and therefore logically equivalent (because semantics aren't separable from grammar). Now, should we exchange "when" for "if", what changes? We CAN still read "When you saw me,..." as a condition. The difference between when/if conditionals is that "if" has open modality, the condition is true subject only to its own internal modalities (the factuality of having seen or not having seen) whereas "when" has an additional modality applied, that of time.

If we say...

When you saw me, you saw the truth: the two events are contemporaneous (and unequivocally in the past).
When you see me, you see the truth: seeing the first person is EQUIVALENT to seeing the truth; again the events are contemporaneous.
When you see me, you will see the truth: the second person will see the truth (or come to understand the truth) some time after seeing the first; it is implied that seeing the first person is perhaps a necessary precursor to seeing the truth.

It is this sentence which has been cast into the past, so the sense is that upon seeing her, Graham has discovered something that precedes his seeing the truth.

We've done all of this without appealing to the progressive and perfect aspects. The perfect aspect just adds another level of recursion (our first level of recursion is the point of reference in the past tense... if we introduce perfects, then we're applying actions to points after the present and/or the past depending on where we stick our forms of to have :P).

Also, a caesura is not technically a foot containing only one stressed syllable. I think the effect you're describing is:

Hrmm... yes, caesura is the pause within a line or the flow of speech... not sure where I first heard it classified as a single stressed syllable standing as a foot (though probably in high school as that was the last time I saw or did much thinking on prosody). It was probably a confusion with strong caesura which seems to be tied to the pause happening with the stressed syllable. In any case, my recommendation still remains to switch to a meter composed of only stressed syllables (spondee, molossus, dispondee... ask me again in a week... I'll have forgotten them XD) to engage a sense of urgency or immediacy.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on May 28, 2012, 10:26:49 AM
Hmm, it's becoming clearer but I'm still confused.

I think you correctly point out that "When you see me, you will see the truth" is the present form of the phrase in question: "When you saw me, you would see the truth".

My problem is that no matter how many times I run it through my head, it just doesn't work - at least, not in the context of KQ2. The example you give of would in a similar context is "If I went to a friend's house for dinner, I would take a bottle of wine". This can also be changed into "When I went to a friend's house, I would take a bottle of wine"; the speaker could be reminiscing about the many times they went to have dinner with friends, but not refer to any particular event.

I think my problem with "saw me > would see" might actually be a conceptual one rather than a grammatical one. In the bottle of wine example, I know that the sentence is abstract and hypothetical: he could be talking about any number of visits and so it forms a general principle of wine-taking rather than one single instance. But with KQ2, I know that it refers to one event - the moment when Graham sees Valanice for the first time. There's just something about the way that's phrased which only makes it grammatically palateable to me if it's talking in the abstract: if the sentence were, "Over the course of the many years we spent married, you saw me hundreds of different times, and when you saw me, you would see the truth", I'd be perfectly capable of parsing it. But because (I assume) the song refers to that single event, my brain just can't handle that.

I think the main problem I have is that the present form - "When you see me, you will see the truth" - sounds like something that a deity might say, so I picture a single moment of epiphanic glory which can be described as "truth". But with the lyrics as they stand, I can only make them function if they don't refer to a single event, but to an abstraction of many events. There's a gap between what the sentence implies from its content (a single epiphany) and what it, to me, demands of its grammar (an abstraction).

Which is not to say that the problem lies in your grammar; on the contrary, I think it's my brain that's at fault.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 28, 2012, 11:03:05 AM
My problem is that no matter how many times I run it through my head, it just doesn't work - at least, not in the context of KQ2. The example you give of would in a similar context is "If I went to a friend's house for dinner, I would take a bottle of wine". This can also be changed into "When I went to a friend's house, I would take a bottle of wine"; the speaker could be reminiscing about the many times they went to have dinner with friends, but not refer to any particular event.
That is the general sense of it. :yes:

I think the main problem I have is that the present form - "When you see me, you will see the truth" - sounds like something that a deity might say, so I picture a single moment of epiphanic glory which can be described as "truth". But with the lyrics as they stand, I can only make them function if they don't refer to a single event, but to an abstraction of many events. There's a gap between what the sentence implies from its content (a single epiphany) and what it, to me, demands of its grammar (an abstraction).

Which is not to say that the problem lies in your grammar; on the contrary, I think it's my brain that's at fault.
Well, that is the problem: the construction doesn't match the context. I haven't listened to the song so I haven't been willing to comment fully on the context. :) I don't think it's your brain: I think it's the mismatch of grammar and context. :yes:

The interpretation that it is describing a single event which comes after a single other past event is the most literal, grammatical reading, but it isn't really supported by the content. This isn't such a dry exposition of "just the facts".

EDIT: Oh, also... a deity would say: "when you see me, you see the truth" (well, actually, this is a personal divinity, a less personal but perhaps more holistic divinity would say: "when you see the truth, you see me")
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on May 29, 2012, 06:34:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9c_eBXnQs
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 29, 2012, 03:25:38 PM
... but...

"Our fate's unknown/so rarely shown/Together we'll see it ever sewn." ...what does that even mean? ::)

Also... oh... that's not the whole sentence:

"When you saw me, the truth you would see/that your heart could feel its emptiness heal."

...which also explains why there's inversion. Even today, inversion happens more frequently when you have a clause running around in the predicate. :yes:

The noun clause "that your heart could feel its emptiness heal" stands in apposition to "the truth". This makes it clear that it really is a simple sequence of two events occurring the past.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on May 30, 2012, 06:46:55 AM
I'm really not clear, now you've quoted the whole line, how that actually works. :S It looks like "see" is being used by the phrases on either side of it: "When you saw me, the truth you would see" and "you would see that your heart..."

Anyway, they're really, really bad lyrics, which rhyme without meaning anything. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 30, 2012, 08:46:20 AM
I'm really not clear, now you've quoted the whole line, how that actually works. :S It looks like "see" is being used by the phrases on either side of it: "When you saw me, the truth you would see" and "you would see that your heart..."

It is. So, the sentence without inversion would be "you would see the truth that your heart could feel its emptiness heal."

The noun clause "that your heart could feel its emptiness heal" is an appositive to "the truth", so they do have to be interchangeable within the sentence.

As an aside, another way to effect the inversion is through a cleft construction: "the truth which you would see would be that your heart could feel its emptiness heal." In which case we demote the main predicate, moving it into a dependent clause; promote the direct object, making it the subject; and replace the main verb with a less vivid stand in (would be).

Now, if we don't want to change the level of grammatical emphasis of the main clause, we just don't subordinate the main verb and the construction we get is the one that we have. Alternatively, we could put the appositive noun clause immediately after the direct object, but this becomes rather cumbersome:

...the truth that your heart could feel its emptiness heal you would see.

We've shunted the main subject and verb so far away from the direct object that the whole meaning of the sentence becomes unclear (we could actually do this in Latin: veritatem ut cordis tua possit sentire vanitatem eius sanare videas... but then in Latin, they have declension and a propensity for such periodic sentences).
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on May 30, 2012, 11:50:28 AM
Oh I seeee! That makes sense now, thank you!

I still thinks it's a slightly silly way to go about writing song-lyrics though. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on May 31, 2012, 03:38:02 AM
It is a slightly silly way to go about it, yes, but at least in the end, it does demonstrate some command of the language they are using. ;P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: DawsonJ on June 26, 2012, 03:48:52 AM
Delling, I've got a question that you'll no doubt be able to answer.  Why do Facere, Fare, Faire, and Fazer translate to Hacer in Spanish? I know there's quite a bit of Arabic influence in Spanish, but I've also seen a number of  books discussing Arabic's influence on the French language.  So why would one be Hacer while the other is Faire?

Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on June 26, 2012, 05:13:46 AM
Simple trick: When trying to figure out why morphology happens the way it does, repeat the words over and over in varying speeds and see what happens. :P Also, keep in mind that "F" is a sibilant sound and sibilant sounds are more likely to be replaced by other sibilant sounds or disappear altogether and be replaced by an aspirating sound.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: DawsonJ on June 26, 2012, 10:04:13 PM
Simple trick: When trying to figure out why morphology happens the way it does, repeat the words over and over in varying speeds and see what happens. :P Also, keep in mind that "F" is a sibilant sound and sibilant sounds are more likely to be replaced by other sibilant sounds or disappear altogether and be replaced by an aspirating sound.

Good point.  The interesting part about spoken Spanish is that it's spoken differently than written, but rarely does the written form change.  In Mexico, they tend to add an "-s" to the 2nd person pretérito, as in Fuiste spoken as Fuistes.  And while I hear Nojotroj, the written form remains Nosotros.  Therefore, the word Hacer matches their manner of speech, but just looks odd in writing.  That being said, it does match their usage of Hoja for leaf, instead of a comparably written translation of Foglia (which wouldn't sound good in Spanish, considering a similar form is already considered offensive).

Morphology is an interesting subject, verily! In the cases of Haber (Spanish) and Haver (Portuguese), the silent "H" is an unnecessary addition to Avere and Avoir.  However, Haber, Haver, Avere, and Avoir also have multiple uses in each language, so they're not exact translations. Just saying. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on June 27, 2012, 05:11:37 AM
That has nothing to do with morphology. Words evolve and their usages evolve too. Keep in mind that when the stem originally started to exist, many of the usages and verb constructions we have today did not. Most Romance languages now have several constructed tenses, with the pluperfect and the perfect and the future perfect all containing forms of that verb, whereas classical language tenses tend to consist solely of one verb (with the exception of Greek being weird occasionally).
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on June 27, 2012, 04:14:06 PM
Deloria is of course correct. :) (I've been too busy with travel and everything else to answer unfortunately).

Essentially, some but not all initial f's in Latin became initial h's: e.g., facere->hacer but fui->fui.

As for your notes on varying pronunciations and differences between phonology and orthography, these things happen. No, seriously, you don't understand: this isn't just hand-waving--it's how languages work! XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on June 28, 2012, 10:34:00 AM
Orthography reforms happen every so often and then it seems like it's caught up, but really, all spoken languages are really just dialects of written languages and most languages do not have orthography and phonology that match up. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on August 26, 2012, 06:41:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=nn1ehKAo3ak

:cat:

I'll just leave this here... and note that this is pretty much true of me: give me a cat and I'll pretty much do whatever you want... as long as I get to keep the cat. (There may be a short list of international crimes and felonies that require more than one kitty, but putting that here would be telling. :P)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on October 26, 2012, 12:58:03 PM
Ohh Delling's got a thread <3



So then I shall leave this here, seems pretty fitting IMO :D

(http://blog.apeslap.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/awesomeness.jpg?w=400)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on October 26, 2012, 01:49:37 PM
 ;] d'aww shucks... :D thank you, merci, gracias, (etc. :P)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on October 26, 2012, 02:33:43 PM
;] d'aww shucks... :D thank you, merci, gracias, (etc. :P)


 どういたしまして (Doitashimashite) -- You're welcome :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 04, 2012, 09:33:17 AM
*has no Japanese to speak of*

I did look at it very briefly once b/c I was curious about its phonotactics for a con-lang I was working on. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on November 04, 2012, 12:06:54 PM
Oooh I knew I forgot to ask you something the other day.

I remember when I was just starting out with French, I found a forum in which it said something about the differences between Canada/France French. I am sure there must be in a lot of ways, but I was wondering because some people would say really mean things about Canadians on that matter.

It confused me to no end, so I decided to stop participating in that conversation and I continued with my studies. However, seriously though, how different is it? Or is it just a cultural shift?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 04, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
Basically, IIRC, Quebecois has retained some very old school elements of French alongside Anglicisms and new terminology that smacks of the predominantly English environment. At its core, it's still French in its most formal register in terms of grammar, morphology, etc.

Parisians can be such snobs about the language. :P

There is a reasonable degree of mutual intelligibility, but the Canadians have different idioms and slang. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on November 04, 2012, 05:25:39 PM
It's only fair each would have their own "cool" words and whatever those whippersnappers say nowadays :D

*continues to hijack thread*

For example, when I was studying I used to listen to a lot of music to help me with listening and pronunciation as well as to force me to speak out loud somehow given that I had very limited time to practice that.

Sigh. I'll probably screw this up but here goes :D :D :D

*stretches*

Il est du Canada -- http://youtu.be/hkyoHxWP9fs
Son nom est Jean Leloup, il est fou. Mais il est mervelleux (sp??) lol

Elle est de la France -- http://youtu.be/wSZnf6clHx8
Son nom est Emilie Simon, elle est douce. Je ne peux la comprende tres bien! :P


Francais. Un mal de tete atroce!  ::)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 04, 2012, 05:44:08 PM
*continues to hijack thread*
Hijack away. :P

Il est du Canada -- http://youtu.be/hkyoHxWP9fs
Son nom est Jean Leloup, il est fou. Mais il est mervelleux (sp??) lol
Merveilleux. :yes:

Elle est de la France -- http://youtu.be/wSZnf6clHx8
Son nom est Emilie Simon, elle est douce. Je ne peux la comprende tres bien! :P
S'appeler (as with llamarse in Spanish) is the more common construction for giving a person's name. There isn't anything wrong with "Son nom est..." and in fact, in some instances, it would be preferred. (Despite what some instructors might say... I find that such instructors are thinking too much within the confines of their textbooks and too little in terms of the actual language.)

"ne peux pas"... apparently, it is common in some places to lose the "ne" part of the negation. (Though its presence is then strictly enforced with things like "ne... plus" which would otherwise breed all manner of confusion.)

Aussi: comprendre, mais je pense que c'est-ci un "typo". :P
Francais. Un mal de tete atroce!  ::)
XD I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure if that's how it would be said... DELORIA!? Weigh in, plz?
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on November 04, 2012, 06:05:48 PM
I thought about it for a second.... but I went with like their name is considering it's sort of like an artist, not an introduction? well I know it doesnt make much sense, but it did in my head at the time @.@

Maybe it's a matter of a cultural reference. For example with Japanese when you're introducing yourself it's sort of silly to say "My name is", even though it'd be absolutely correct to say "Sai des" or like "Watashi wa Sai des" (I'm Say), instead by cultural reasons it is meant to be "Sai to moushimasu". Of course, incorporating the whole Hajimemashite thingy first.

But this is a formality anyways, because if it comes the scenario where you need to... let's say ask someone's name you DO refer to it directly such as: "Watashi no tomodachi no namae desu ka?" (what is your friend's name) because it's like a different scenario. I guess.


It is insane how much of culture goes with learning a language D:


PS: I can't stand my typos, let alone in different languages lol. MY HEAD DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE lol :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on November 04, 2012, 07:00:27 PM
I love Quebecois curse words. XD They're all very heavily Catholic in nature and I find it hilarious! :D

Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on November 05, 2012, 07:14:38 PM
"Maudit de batar s't'enfant chienne de christophe."

What my parents used to yell when they were angry. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 07, 2012, 09:35:03 AM
... that's jibber-y... It's something along the lines of...

Curse the "illegitimate" child of Christophe's she-dog. :P

I guess you had to be there... or be Christophe... or be his "dog"... or maybe its child... I'm so confused. XD  :stars:
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on November 07, 2012, 11:12:01 AM
It's fun to say cuz the syllables are really harsh. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on November 07, 2012, 01:05:29 PM
... that's jibber-y... It's something along the lines of...

Curse the "illegitimate" child of Christophe's she-dog. :P

I guess you had to be there... or be Christophe... or be his "dog"... or maybe its child... I'm so confused. XD  :stars:
XD XD I think we'd all like to know who Christophe is. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 07, 2012, 02:43:34 PM
We should start a thread or something dedicated to Christophe. Alternatively, we could just discuss him here... I suggest we figure out what manner of dog he owns first... :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on November 07, 2012, 04:17:43 PM
Holy crap, good to know the translation in my head was accurate. I was like "WTF did he say!?" lmao and I was like... Imma let Delling post first >.>

I already sound dumb enough on daily basis :P


But continue the randomness of that beauty of a sentence, your parents are very creative I see lol :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on November 07, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
Haha, will do! :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: crayauchtin on November 07, 2012, 11:10:37 PM
If I understand correctly... I feel overwhelming sympathy for Christophe's dog.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on November 22, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
It's a trooper!
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on November 24, 2012, 02:25:19 PM
Apparently, it's had cursed puppies. :yes: :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on January 07, 2013, 05:22:26 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/182099_532992870053041_1357190676_n.png)


I had to share, frand.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on January 07, 2013, 06:55:53 PM
*tenses up and is all "WAIT!"* Then, nothing happens.

Looks like a chill pill would be...  8) ...right on time. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

ugh... *can't believe he just did that* XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Say on January 07, 2013, 07:04:52 PM
LMAO!!

Wait, I can't believe I got that... lol.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: KatieHal on January 07, 2013, 07:37:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkD-kxZEQ6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkD-kxZEQ6E)
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on January 08, 2013, 04:01:00 AM
XD Double facepalm in fact! XD :D


~~~

On a different note, it occurs to me that when I'm staring at something that makes absolutely no sense (like two versions of code that seem to be identical in all important respects yet give different results), I come here and have a look around and then it starts to make sense... or at least more sense. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on January 10, 2013, 04:56:29 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/182099_532992870053041_1357190676_n.png)


I had to share, frand.
I finally got it. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on February 20, 2013, 05:31:06 AM
So, I was going to be all "I have decided to change my avatar, discuss," but then I realized what I would change it to. So, you'll all just have to deal instead. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on February 20, 2013, 05:32:58 AM
Sub-avatar text must go too. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on February 20, 2013, 05:33:16 AM
Quite. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on February 20, 2013, 05:40:47 AM
Dignified Delling is dignified! :D *scratches under his chin*
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on February 20, 2013, 05:41:49 AM
*is compelled to purr by the deepest of magics from the dawn of all cattitude* :cat:


I have uncovered a problem with my new form... *is highly susceptible to ailuromantic manipulation*
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on February 20, 2013, 05:53:46 AM
It's really only fair if you're at the same disadvantage as all other beings regarding manipulation. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Rosella on February 20, 2013, 08:34:55 AM
I had a friend who could purr once. Like, not make that tongue rolling sound but actually purr from his throat like a cat. Very, very odd.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Deloria on February 20, 2013, 08:38:50 AM
I would have such a person around me all the time. :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Delling on February 20, 2013, 09:02:51 AM
I had a friend who could purr once. Like, not make that tongue rolling sound but actually purr from his throat like a cat. Very, very odd.

I can do that a very little... it's tricky. The main problem though is that I find I can only do this for very brief pulses before running out of breath. :(

I think the trick is to purr on inhalation and exhalation, but I can't do this smoothly with no transition and inhalation purring seems much more difficult. :-\

I'd comment on the weirdness of this topic of discussion, but we're in The Asylum!. Also, I can uvularize any sufficiently back vowel. :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on February 20, 2013, 10:21:08 AM
Discussing how to imitate cats is a PERFECTLY REASONABLE FORM OF DISCUSSION >:(

*kinda wants to be a cat* :P
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on February 20, 2013, 11:57:36 AM
I can whistle while breathing in! :D
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Rosella on February 20, 2013, 03:55:24 PM
I actually learned to do that before I could whistle outward. XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on February 21, 2013, 05:10:20 PM
*cannot whistle and feels this fact is weird* XD
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: Oldbushie on February 21, 2013, 08:41:45 PM
Not really, lots of people can't whistle. :D I figured it out by accident one day.
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: darthkiwi on February 22, 2013, 11:48:15 AM
Not really, lots of people can't whistle. :D I figured it out by accident one day.

That's good to know, thanks. :)

For years I couldn't click my fingers either. Then one day I suddenly could. Very odd. :S
Title: Re: Delling's Thread
Post by: GrahamRocks! on February 22, 2013, 12:03:23 PM
I can't whistle either. And you want to know something weird? I can only snap my fingers with my right hand!