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The Royal Archives => Gaming Archives => Topic started by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 09:30:59 AM

Title: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 09:30:59 AM
I made a thread for KQ timeline variants based on official sources, here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0), this topic focuses on the ones for the fan games;

*AGDI timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/AGDI_Timeline) (timeline based on the material from the AGDI games)
*IA timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/IA Timeline) (timeline based on the material in the IA games)
*TSL timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/TSL_timeline)/TSL timeline (classic) (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/TSL_timeline_(classic))(timelines based on the TSL/Four Winds material)
*BI timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Breast Intentions_Timeline) (timeline based on Breast Intentions material)
*ZZT timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/ZZT_Timeline) (chronology of eras based on ZZT games)

This page is a page that offers links to all variations, for the alternate stories.
*Timelines (unofficial) (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/ZZT_Timeline)

Note: For comparison; The timeline for TSL, places KQ7 at about 24 years after KQ1. Breast Intentions timeline places KQ7 about 22 years after KQ1. The AGDI timeline places KQ7 about 21 years after KQ1, and IA timeline places KQ7 about 23 or 25 years after KQ1.

I was looking at IA's  KQ3 time line again, and noticed that it would have unintended consequences with later games in the series, and the overall KQ timeline/s. For the sake of this discussion, I'm only discussing the game references only (and avoiding companion, hintbooks and novels).

The main timeline change in  IA's game is that that the move the "hat toss" from end of KQ3 to several months after KQ3.

This affects the timing of original KQ3 and KQ4 (multiple sources state that endings takes place shortly after the rescue of Rosella, as shown in the original KQ3).

The timing also causes a ripple effect that would affect given dates given for later games in the series; i.e. it pushes KQ4 several months after KQ3, would push it into winter (KQ3 and KQ4 actually took place during the summer a few weeks before the twins birthday, as stated in KQ3).

This would actually set KQ4 after the twins birthday, and Rosella would be 18 in KQ4 (yet KQ3, and several other sources, state that the twins were a few weeks short of eighteen during KQ3/KQ4).

Going further KQ5 is stated to take place during the spring, nearly a year after KQ4 in KQ5 manual (there is actually about 8-10 months between summer, and spring following year) If KQ4 takes place during winter as IA's KQ3 pushes it, this would push KQ5 to taking place during the summer, possibly early fall). KQ6 is six months after KQ5 (according to Cassima in KQ6, when you talk to her up in the secret passage, and show her Shadrack's letter).

I'm not quite sure how this affects KQ6, at the moment, as I haven't analyzed the seasonal facts surrounding that game in detail.

In anycase, each timeline variant offers alternate take on the KQ history, offering several alternate timelines.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: KatieHal on February 01, 2011, 09:38:19 AM
The Green Isles' generally appear to be a fairly tropical climate, though, so winter might not affect things there all that much.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 09:43:20 AM
The green isles are magically tropical due to the Druids. It's actually quite far north even of the Serenia continent see Sierra's King's Questions. It keeps the weather pleasant all year round.

Though I think there are one or two references in KQ6 mentioning it being Summer. I can't remember were he refs are located though. Internally kQ6 takes place about six months after KQ5 according to Cassima.

The IA butterfly effect would essentially push it into spring the following year.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: dark-daventry on February 01, 2011, 10:29:59 AM
I must say baggins, you certainly are a wealth of interesting information...
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: KatieHal on February 01, 2011, 10:53:55 AM
The green isles are magically tropical due to the Druids. It's actually quite far north even of the Serenia continent see Sierra's King's Questions. It keeps the weather pleasant all year round.

I know they're far north on the map, but I always attributed the weather/map correlation to 'fantasy world need not adhere to your rules'. Where was it said the weather was from the Druids? (In a Companion edition, I've no doubt...)
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 11:51:49 AM
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Where was it said the weather was from the Druids? (In a Companion edition, I've no doubt...)
It's mentioned in guidebook that comes with KQ6 briefly, see page 38, 39 under the section, "Hidden Islands and Other Worlds", as well as alluded to by a few of the comments within kq6.

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One popular tale seems to reflect the universal myths of harvest and planting. It is said that nearby exists a hidden island of priestly inhabitants who worship Mother Earth. These priests keep the weather and the tides in balance to insure safety from hurricanes and other forces of the sea and to plead continuance for the kingdom's bounty. It is said that these priests demand privacy above all and that they remain loyal to the Crown in exchange for secrecy. What a wonderfully conspiratorial tale!-Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, pg 38, 39

The companion also mentions it a tiny bit (but that is unimportant to this topic).

Kq5 describes a bit about the north seas and north lands.

Kolyma is described as being in the tropics and appears south of Daventry in KQ3 maps incidentally.

I haven't really been touching on companion in this discussion since it has its own butterfly effects on a couple of dates (kq6 is one year after kq5 for example). But if seasons, the companion discusses are brought up, it discusses traditional Arctic conditions of the far north near Great Mountains/north seas in the KQ5 related chapters/encyclopedia (that's from the book that was written with Roberta Williams help, 2nd Edition/3rd). It even brings up the Arctic, in one of the back stories.
 
At least from Roberta's perspective though Daventry is "earth" of 'long' ago, when there was magic, and apparently continents were in a different configuration than they are now. But apparently has a general earth like climate (at least with original intent of KQ4, even the same months/years, though 1400's aren't really that 'long' ago, LOL).

On a side note, in KQ6, its suggested while several of the islands are maintained as tropical setting by the druids (such as Isle of the Crown, Isle of Wonder). The druid island itself actually has England style cold foggy weather (and flora). Isle of the Beast appears to have temperate west coast Red Woods weather, based on descriptions in the game. Come to think of it, the ocean waters are described as being 'cold', in some of the death scenes (fitting the idea that its in the northern oceans).

Back on topic, I've put together a bit of a timeline for IA games (I'm hoping in the future that KoS will offer even more dates);

IA timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/IA_Timeline)

As of right now, i'm not sure based on information in IA's KQ3, when their game takes place in relationship to KQ1 and KQ2. Was the twins birth 1 or 2 years after KQ2 (or more) and when was KQ2 in relation to KQ1?.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Blackthorne on February 01, 2011, 04:57:55 PM
Pedantic much?

Bt
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 05:43:29 PM
I've been working on timelines for all the various games, :). I just find these details interesting.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Klitos on February 01, 2011, 09:55:54 PM
Nothing in the original KQ3 tells you how long after Alexander's return the whole hat throwing exercise was. Multiple sources may say that, but who is to say what is canon and what isn't? I took the Star Trek approach, if it's on screen, it's canon. If it's not, interpretation can apply.

Besides, we tweaked it to add more narrative and have more lines for the awesome Josh Mandel to speak!

Take IA's version of KQ3 to exist in an alternate timeline, in the same way that Smallville and the Superman movies are different, our interpretation and the official Sierra timeline are not meant to line up.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: KatieHal on February 01, 2011, 09:58:54 PM
As I recall, it's pretty clearly immediately after they return. End of KQ3, they enter the castle, rejoice, Graham throws the hat, and that scene repeats at the start of KQ4. Heck, Alexander's still in his Gwydion clothing right through to the end of KQ4.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Baggins on February 01, 2011, 10:01:11 PM
Katie, that is exactly how it plays out at the end of KQ3 into KQ4. The entire process is shown clearly on screen in KQ3.

Infact, as you get near the castle, Rosella points out that the castle in the distance, then Rumplestiltskin states that he's heading back to the castle to let the king and queen know you are showing up (so they can prepare for the reunion). He has the gates opened for you Alexander and Rosella, they then travel through the hall, and enter the throne room, for the reunion, and the hat throw. There are bits of narrative each step of the way, describing Alexander's travel from Rumple's house through the castle, and into the throne room.

Watch the original KQ3 ending here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynSVNb-VUnc)

Yes, of course the fan games are alternate stories, this means they create alternate timelines.

Edit: Was reading through four winds again, and noticed that Valanice interview follows what appears in KQ3/KQ4 almost directly (that is Alexander and Rosella returning to the Castle Throne room directly after defeating the dragon).
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: KatieHal on February 02, 2011, 07:13:29 AM
Yes, our timeline for the gap between KQ3 and KQ4 is the canon one (aka immediately following).

Not that I mind IA's ending. It was an interesting different choice to make, and I get their reasons for doing so narratively.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Damar on February 02, 2011, 08:46:03 PM
I liked the choice they made as well, and it makes more sense for the characters.  Plus, how much of a attention hog is Graham in the original canon?  "Well it's great to have you back son, and you saved my only daughter.  This is the best birthday you two could ever have.  But if I could make this about ME for a second, I think it's time to announce my retirement.  Now fetch me my hat that I may throw it in your general direction..."

Ultimately though, the IA timeline change doesn't have much of an effect depending on what canon you go for.  And when it comes to King's Quest, I guess there are different layers of canon.  You've got the games themselves, what the manual says, and then the Companion.  And while all may be "officially" canon, I tend to mainly look at what is in the games themselves.  The manuals sometimes contradict, and the Companion, while official, is more fanon to me.  Mentions of Lovecraft in King's Quest canon?  Really?  I mean, really?!?  Oh, and KQ7 might not have actually happened?  Really?

So if you go by the strictest canon, just the games themselves, it balances out any effect from IA's extended KQ3 ending.  And mainly it's KQ5 that balances it out.  It's unclear how much time passed.  It could have been years.  And Graham has gone gray.  Personally, I like to think that more time passes between 4 and 5 because in the world of the game, it gives the royal family more time to be together.  If you compress anything, then the fact becomes that Alexander and his family were never really together at all.  He comes home then he leaves again and lives in another land.  Yeah they're a family and they love each other, but they're also for all intents and purposes complete strangers to each other.  It's nicer to think that these characters had more time together.

Interestingly enough, if you go by just what's in the games, I think it's implied that KQ6 happens sooner after 5 than the official year that was stated earlier.  Valanice mentions to Alex in the intro that it's been months since he met Cassima.  While not really giving a timeline, colloquially speaking, who says "months" when a year has passed?  If it's anywhere near a year's time, even less than a year, people will just say, "It's been a year."  Then again, I'm giving this way too much thought.  But hey, sometimes it's fun to give fantasy a little too much thought, especially when it's like putting a puzzle together.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Baggins on February 02, 2011, 09:21:48 PM
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the original canon?
What do you mean by "original canon"? There is only one canon, there are no canonical reboots (not counting the KQ1 remake, which changes quite a bit, and ignores KQ3). There is only the "canon", and the fan games/fan fiction (non-canon).

Also technically the "Companion" isn't technically "fanon" as its authorized, and officially licensed material developed through Sierra's authorization/publishing contract, and even has Roberta William's assistance (see acknowledgements). This makes it "profic"(professional fiction), as opposed to "fanfic/fanon".

"Fanon" on the other hand is un-authorized, fan created material, with no "official" standing at all.

BTW, I've avoided using the companion, hintbooks or novels in this topic, I've stuck to the game references only. The official licensed material sources have yet more possible "butterfly effects" of their own on the series (and would just confuse things further, see here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0)).
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Mentions of Lovecraft in King's Quest canon?  Really?  I mean, really?!?  
Abdul Alhazred?!?! You do know that's a Lovecraft reference right? These references really are no different than KQ referencing other fiction or some cases historical figures like the reference to Gregor Samsa (from Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis) (KQ7),  Davey Jones, Helen of Troy, Abram, William Shakespeare, Cleopatra, Socrates, Sun Tzu, and other fairy tales/myths a plenty, etc.

In anycase if you stuck to just the games themselves, they aren't always consistent between each game in the series either. At least perfectly consistent.

Case in point pay attention to the details of the ending of KQ3, and compare to the introduction of KQ4.

KQ4 lacks Graham's comments from KQ3, as he tosses the hat, and he picks up the hat from a completely different location.

Also keep track at how Daventry is remixed in practically every game in the series.

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And mainly it's KQ5 that balances it out.  It's unclear how much time passed.  It could have been years.  And Graham has gone gray.  Personally, I like to think that more time passes between 4 and 5 because in the world of the game, it gives the royal family more time to be together.

A couple of points, if you ignore the KQ5 manual and push KQ5 way ahead by several years, then you'll be ignoring KQ7's which states that its set somewere between 1-2 years after KQ3 (Rosella is "nearly twenty years old", see the the introduction). So in fact Rosella is 19 in KQ7 (she and Alexander were almost 18 in KQ3) heading towards her 20th birthday. There isn't much more than approximately 1-2 years between the games (betwen 3/4 and 7).

So to push KQ5 way ahead would cause yet another 'butterfly effect'. So in no way can "pushing KQ5" way ahead "balance anything out".

No one is talking about 'ignoring KQ7' in this thread, except for perhaps you ;).

On a related note, ingame references within KQ5 states that that KQ3 takes place 20 years after KQ2 (for an additional ingame time reference)see here (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:KQ3AboutKQ5.jpg). In other words, the twins were born about two years after KQ2, and were almost 18 at the time of KQ3 (2 + 18 = 20 years).
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think it's implied that KQ6 happens sooner after 5 than the official year that was stated earlier.  Valanice mentions to Alex in the intro that it's been months since he met Cassima.  While not really giving a timeline, colloquially speaking, who says "months" when a year has passed?  


As I stated earlier in the game, KQ6,  Cassima' says its been "six months" when you talk to her in her bedroom, and show her Shadrack's letter. It can be loosely rounded to a "year" or described as "months", but it's certainly pretty long period. Any changes earlier in the timeline, still causes a butterfly affect with later events in the time line (that's why there are more than two variations even in the Roberta William's penned material/Games).

That date actually makes Alexander somewhere between 18-19 years old in KQ6 (he can't be any older because Rosella is only 19 in KQ7, and they are twins). As is known Alexander is nearly 18 in KQ3 era. So again, there really isn't much time between KQ3-7 period.

But if one goes by game references only (see narrators, and assorted in-game references) within the canon KQ3 through KQ7, there really isn't that much time going on between KQ3-7.

In anycase the point of this discussion is not about trying to mush the two timelines together, but discuss how they diverge from each other into alternate timelines.
Title: Dating issue? Twins birthdate?
Post by: Baggins on February 03, 2011, 01:46:51 AM
Hmm, I was noticing in Four Winds issue 1 (article 1), that it says that the twins were born specifically '21 years' before the issue.

However, in the game, which takes place about a year after that issue, there is a banner in that's struck by lightning. If you read it, its a banner celebrating the twins recent 21st birthday.

Shouldn't that banner say 22nd birthday?

Or should the Four Winds mean say they were born 20 years ago?

The math doesn't seem to match up in its current conditions.
Title: Re: Dating issue? Twins birthdate?
Post by: KatieHal on February 03, 2011, 06:03:43 AM
The banner is the 'more correct' of the two--so the article should probably say twenty, yes.

Maybe we should start merging these various timeline discussions into one thread.

****

I've merged the thread for timeline variants, the IA timeline thread, and the latest question about the twins' birthday as given in the Four Winds vs. the game into. Please keep all questions/notes/etc about fan-game timelines in this thread.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 03, 2011, 09:46:28 AM
Thanks, that bit was confusing me.

I found another confusing bit. One of the narrations  mentions that the town's economy has been booming the last few years, allowing the village to grow.

Yet, according to KQ6, the Four Winds, and a few other ingame references in TSL the economy was dead around the time of KQ6 (KQ6 is only about a 1-2 years before TSL based on other TSL references). In Four Winds article discussing the 'boom' it talks about the economy dieing three years before the article, due to closing of the ferry. The article mentions that economy is just starting to turn around (the article mentions that it's been "several months" since events of KQ6, and Alhazred's arrest).

So the bit of narration about the boom in the last "few years" is a bit confusing.

Hmm, another reference I found interesting, according to one of the narrative bits in TSL, TSL places KQ6 less than half a year after KQ5 (as opposed to "six months" date given in KQ6), if anyone is keeping track.

Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: Damar on February 04, 2011, 06:16:32 AM
Actually both KQ6 and Silver Lining would be right because KQ6 is both less than half a year and half a year after KQ5.   The intro mentions that Alexander sails for three long months, which means if Cassima later states it's been six months, that Alex's moping in the throne room occurred three months after KQ5.  So technically the game does occur less than six months after 5.  It just has a three month introduction after it starts.

Oh, and yeah, I remembered after I posted that Alhazred was a reference to Lovecraft.  Still, I would argue that there's a difference between an homage, like using the name Alhazred or Gregor Sampsa, and having a full blown inclusion in the series, like the Companion saying that Alhazred wrote the Necronomicon or that Cthulu ate the pirates.  Those references start to get a bit recent for a medieval timeframe, at least for me.  But that's personal opinion, I guess.  And yeah, I know there's always been some fudging on that, particularly with Shakespeare, but still.

No one is talking about 'ignoring KQ7' in this thread, except for perhaps you ;).

Touche.  I'd forgotten that Valanice mentioned Rosella was nearly 20 in the intro.  So yeah, that does compress the potential time between 4 and 5.  Unless 7 is actually a prequel, since I'm not sure there are any references to 5 or 6.  It could have happened before, or even simultaneously with 6.  Of course that's going by the strictest letter of what is mentioned and not mentioned as the spirit of the game is pretty clearly a direct sequel to 6.  And you really do have to take the spirit of the games into consideration too, otherwise the letter of what happens becomes meaningless.
Title: Re: Infamous Adventure's King's Quest Butterfly Effect?
Post by: snabbott on February 04, 2011, 08:28:42 AM
Unless 7 is actually a prequel, since I'm not sure there are any references to 5 or 6.  It could have happened before, or even simultaneously with 6.
That thought never occurred to me! :o

And you really do have to take the spirit of the games into consideration too, otherwise the letter of what happens becomes meaningless.
Excellent point! :D
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 04, 2011, 08:59:34 AM
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Actually both KQ6 and Silver Lining would be right because KQ6 is both less than half a year and half a year after KQ5.  The intro mentions that Alexander sails for three long months, which means if Cassima later states it's been six months, that Alex's moping in the throne room occurred three months after KQ5.  So technically the game does occur less than six months after 5.  It just has a three month introduction after it starts.
Ya, I suppose the "less than half a year" and six months would be about same. Just one makes it sound more like less than six months (5 months or less), the other one sounds more specific.

Basically from in-game dates in KQ6, we learn that Cassima has been safe in her room for "six months" (it's not a direct reference to being "six months" after KQ5 however, just the period of time she spent in seclusion), Jollo mentions that after Cassima's return directly after KQ5, she learned of her parent's death, but there is an undisclosed period of time that she spent with Jollo telling him of all the events that transpired under Mordack, and meeting the Royal Family of Daventry, and Jollo filled her in on all the details of what transpired while she was gone (though probably could have taken less than a week, and likely no more than a month). Shadrack's letter is dated about 1 month before "present time". After which she was forced into 'seclusion'. Alexander traveled for three months before "present time". So technically, all the periods put together is between 6-7 months give or take.

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Those references start to get a bit recent for a medieval timeframe, at least for me.  But that's personal opinion, I guess.  And yeah, I know there's always been some fudging on that, particularly with Shakespeare, but still.
Come to think of it actually, there are several more real life "recent" references in KQ4. Several of the tomb stones have the names of real people on them. One mentions the boxer Simon Byrne mentioned on one for example was a real boxer, who killed a man in the 1800's. Another tombstone mentions seidlitz powder which was a brand/product name from the 1800's, the city of Chelt'nam and its waters, a place in England known for a mineral spa. Count Dracula in KQ2 (most certainly inspired by his Victorian era counterpart from Bram Stoker's Dracula, set in 1897, even down to the Bela Lugosi clothing)?

The stuff in the fisherman's shack in KQ4, is pretty much late 1800's to early 20th century technology, the stove, the cans of food, the coffee pot. The inside of the gingerbread house in KQ1AGI, is also late 1800's, early twentieth century, as is the inside of the Woodman's cottage. The water pump outside of the woodman's cottage in both versions is late 1800's, similarly there is another one of those water pumps in KQ8 in the Swamp. The inside of Grandma's house is also c. late 1800's in furnishings. Almost everything in the haunted house in KQ4 is also late 1800's in furnishings. Actually even the log cabin style of the woodcutter's house (although appearing less modern) in the remake is late 1700's-early 1800's in style if I remember my architectural history correctly .

As an archaeologist/historian maybe i'm trained to spot these differences more, but there are many things that are not "medieval timeframe" in origin. But as someone with some understanding of this stuff, they certainly glaringly 'modern' to my perception (perhaps more so than even the occasional historical/fictional name drops).  Since these are kinds of details that give a form of relative dating when trying to figure out the age of a site in real life.

Seriously though, you must really dislike the real-world references in fan-game KQ2+ (Elvis presley, Teddy Ruxpin, George Lucas,  etc). That game is spilling out at the seams with real world references. ;) :p.

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Touche.  I'd forgotten that Valanice mentioned Rosella was nearly 20 in the intro.  So yeah, that does compress the potential time between 4 and 5.  Unless 7 is actually a prequel, since I'm not sure there are any references to 5 or 6.  It could have happened before, or even simultaneously with 6.  Of course that's going by the strictest letter of what is mentioned and not mentioned as the spirit of the game is pretty clearly a direct sequel to 6.  And you really do have to take the spirit of the games into consideration too, otherwise the letter of what happens becomes meaningless.
Well I think this clearly causes some issues, I think the whole point of why Valanice is wondering when Rosella is going to get married, is because her brother was already married. At the end of KQ7, Rosella decides she will stay in Etheria for a time (who knows how long).

If you place KQ7 before KQ5, it kinda destroys the build up to KQ5-6, which doesn't show Rosella seemingly dating anyone (Rosella obviously loses track of Edgar at the end of KQ4 as she is in a hurry), and Alexander appears to be the first to do so.

We also know obviously that the developers had intended the series to be chronological in nature (obviously if a fan chooses to ignore intent, it is clearly unofficial, and that doesn't make their reinterpration "correct", the developers intended way is the "correct" way). Intent is very important. Based on on the family's comments at the end of KQ6, it seems they were too worried about their son's safety over the three months he was missing, that Valanice probably wouldn't have been thinking of trying to hand off her daughter that soon. Though I think KQ7 does occur shortly after KQ6, so that they would occur "about the same time". Still the time between KQ3 and KQ7 is limited.
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And Graham has gone gray.
BTW, you mentioned the 'gray hair' in KQ5, Actually go back and play KQ4, Graham's hair is an even lighter shade of gray in that game, than in KQ5. But obviously, KQ5 isn't set before KQ4, ;). It's also pretty darn gray in KQ3 as well.

See Here. (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100705201648/kingsquest/images/5/5a/GrahamKQ4.jpg) (KQ4)

and here (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:GrahamKQ3sprite.png) (KQ3)
Though with IA's KQ3's rewritten plot (with the extra months/year between KQ3-4), you could probably set KQ5 between 3 and 4 chronologically (during that "get to know each other period), and still get a timeline that would "work" within its retelling. KQ5 is pretty stand alone, and doesn't make any direct references to KQ4 (if you ignore the obvious backstory elements given in the manual, and in the game's menus). So ya a fan could probably pen a story with a convoluted order of 3, 5, 4, 6, 7 or 3, 5, 4, 7, 6 and still make a narrative work (but either way its very convoluted) ;).
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on February 04, 2011, 09:17:08 AM
As far as the chronology goes, I think you're making the same point Damar was trying to make. There's nothing that explicitly says KQ7 comes after KQ6, but that was clearly the intent.

For the medieval vs. modern thing - maybe KQ takes place in modern times but in a place that's isolated from the rest of the world - so they haven't caught up with everything. Plus, it's hard to know what to do with magic in a historical context...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Enchantermon on February 04, 2011, 09:40:37 AM
BTW, you mentioned the 'grey hair' in KQ5, Actually go back and play KQ4, Graham's hair is an even lighter shade of gray in that game, than in KQ5. But obviously, KQ5 isn't set before KQ4, ;).
He could have done something to his hair, though. After all you know what they say: no one can tell it's "Just for Kings" gel.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 04, 2011, 10:31:44 AM
A "few" is a vague quantity in and of itself--I usually take it to mean at least 2, myself, but another might say it simply mean more than one year and close to two years. So IMO, 'a few years' still covers that time period of somewhere between 1-2 years just fine.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 04, 2011, 11:48:21 AM
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As far as the chronology goes, I think you're making the same point Damar was trying to make. There's nothing that explicitly says KQ7 comes after KQ6, but that was clearly the intent.
I was saying something similar yes with a bit of a devil's advocate. I can't think of any direct references to the rest of the family in the game, and only ref to Graham during a death scene was cut in version 2.0. However Lorelei Shannon the one who wrote KQ7's story, has clearly stated it's set not long after KQ6 in manual and her background info she wrote for the KQ7 Hintbook. So we obviously know the author's intent and that has to amount to something right? Context in the KQ6 ending also should amount to something as well right? Even the game's numerals usually point to progression

The above is further supported by the KQ8 manual also supports Lorelei's intent for KQ7 in it's summaries of the previous games.
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For the medieval vs. modern thing - maybe KQ takes place in modern times but in a place that's isolated from the rest of the world - so they haven't caught up with everything. Plus, it's hard to know what to do with magic in a historical context...
Ha ha so a land of the lost. I like it, although one still had to assume 'a long time ago'/when mermaids, unicorns and wizards roamed the earth' references in say KQ6 intro cutscene' and many of the manuals would still have to be at least a century ago. So game events may take place late 1800s to 1930s to allow for  the technology being scene. Note dates on graves in Tamir place dates upwards 1700s to Victorian era.

Fascinating to know dragons, mermaids, etc were still roaming the earth as little as a century ago  :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Sinister on February 06, 2011, 09:02:35 AM
Some very interesting stuff there Baggins. I've also read through the KQ omnipedia and there's quite a wealth of information on the site. Congrats.

I think to a certain extent some of the King's Quest games remained vague in their exact time line. Of course I agree with reasoning of the time line as discussed. In AI's Hat throwing ceremony we remained rather vague as well, as to how much time had elapsed, it would be logical to suspect that it was several months but it could have also been just a couple of weeks. In any case, it's an interesting read.

With KOS, it's going to be another story all together. KOS is only loosely based on the novel so, the time line of the novel can only be applied in general terms. However, I will make sure that we remain very vague with the specific time. 
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 06, 2011, 09:12:38 AM
Oh, I'm not expecting KoS to follow KoS timeline. That novel takes place over a month (you can literally break it down by the day). It would be impossible to do a "day to day" game of that magnitude, LOL.

Seriously, what works for a novel wouldn't really work as an adventure game. There is little in KoS that could be compared to adventure game puzzles so it's absolutely certain you would have to make extreme liberties to make something playable and fun.
Quote
In AI's Hat throwing ceremony we remained rather vague as well, as to how much time had elapsed, it would be logical to suspect that it was several months but it could have also been just a couple of weeks.
I had actually taken that "vagueness" into consideration, when putting the timeline together over on the Omnipedia actually (it was discussed in the notes in the article). It still causes a bit of a butterfly effect (to degree is unclear), creating a clearly original alternate timeline, compared to various dates given in other/official games.

Given the destruction wrought by the dragon, though, and seveal references to their being much work to be done to rebuild the land (which takes place before the Hat toss), this suggests it would have to take quite a bit of time.
Quote
I think to a certain extent some of the King's Quest games remained vague in their exact time line.


Both KQ2 and KQ5 are vague only if one doesn't read the manuals (KQ2 manual places KQ1 one year before the game for example, and KQ5/KQ8 manual places KQ5 almost one year after KQ4), or at least if one misses a references made within another game . KQ3-4 (originals) are all pretty specific when it takes place the twins are seventeen/almost eighteen (all events are shown on screen, and/or mentioned in-game text), in-game text in KQ5 places KQ3 about twenty years after KQ2. KQ7 has the specific date for Rosella given in the introduction that she is almost twenty (which works back to KQ3, putting 1-2 years between KQ3 and KQ7). KQ6 has fairly specific references to time, and its relation to KQ5. In that game all references in total are just over 6 months between the games.

KQ8 has absolutely no material offering a date for when it happened in relation to any other game.

If you meant specific calendar dates, no games give that kind of information, and only a few specific calendar dates actually appear in the games, and that's on the tombstones in KQ4. But those don't indicate how much time KQ4 has passed is in relation to when the individuals were buried.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Sinister on February 06, 2011, 01:42:18 PM
Quote
Seriously, what works for a novel wouldn't really work as an adventure game. There is little in KoS that could be compared to adventure game puzzles so it's absolutely certain you would have to make extreme liberties to make something playable and fun.

Yup, I agree. And this is the case for KoS, we are taking extreme liberties and making sure the game is fun and in the spirit of KQ.

Quote
Both KQ2 and KQ5 are vague only if one doesn't read the manuals (KQ2 manual places KQ1 one year before the game for example, and KQ5/KQ8 manual places KQ5 almost one year after KQ4), or at least if one misses a references made within another game . KQ3-4 (originals) are all pretty specific when it takes place the twins are seventeen/almost eighteen (all events are shown on screen, and/or mentioned in-game text), in-game text in KQ5 places KQ3 about twenty years after KQ2. KQ7 has the specific date for Rosella given in the introduction that she is almost twenty (which works back to KQ3, putting 1-2 years between KQ3 and KQ7). KQ6 has fairly specific references to time, and its relation to KQ5. In that gamme all references in total are just over 6 months between the games.

KQ8 has absolutely no material offering a date for when it happened in relation to any other game.

Yeah, that's what I mean about "vague". Vague in the sense that most things are "almost" or "about" this long. It works really well to the advantage of game maker's not to set a written down time line, because it gives you some chance to play around with it, with out having to resort to retconning.

Things are pretty clear with the time line, but what I mean is that when dealing with KQ or any other series where you can have a month or week that is not accounted for.. you can play around it. KQ3 and KQ4 are probably the exception, where one game ends.. the other begins.

So, yeah.. I'll read up your findings on AGDI's timeline.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 06, 2011, 03:49:49 PM
Case in point, the timelines in Police Quest, and Gabriel Knight, are far more specific (actual calendar dates). So many of the dates end up contradicting themselves.

So someone like Gabriel ends up having like 2-3 possible birthdates.

See here. (http://gabrielknight.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 08, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
Couldn't you just compress the time between 6 and 7 and fix it all? :\
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 09:15:08 AM
There isn't anything to "fix", a butterfly effect, is the idea that any change however minute, will change something else down the timeline. So when a story teller intentionally chooses take liberties, from the original story, they are changing the story, and causing ripples down the timeline. There is nothing to  'fix' because the writers intentionally chose to ignore the original timeline anyways for their own narratives (this means already that the two timelines cannot rest on top of each other), and thus an alternate timeline was created intentionally. The liberties are a significant difference between the two narratives.

BTW, I mentioned this before, but the time between six and seven isn't much at all, actually, I already pointed that out (and I had taken that detail into consideration when putting the timelines together). Rosella is 19 in KQ7 (as per the intro), and Alexander is almost 18 in KQ3. This means that that KQ5 and KQ6 occurs between 1-2 year gap between KQ3 and KQ7. That was all taken into consideration. Even still the changes would still affect the seasons mentioned in the games, that add a bit more specifics as to what time of the year each occurs.

Unless of course, someone takes liberties, and places KQ7 before KQ5 and KQ6 chronologically, and then those games could be anywhere.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 08, 2011, 11:24:03 AM
Who cares?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 08, 2011, 11:40:09 AM
Who cares?

I agree with this statement. All of these timelines to me are interesting to play through, but nothing more. I don't get myself overly invested in the timelines of KQ. In a way, I really don't think it matters. I feel like analyzing the timeline is a bit useless. The games are fun, regardless of whether or not they fit in a timeline. That's honestly all I care about. I can forgive continuity errors and multiple timelines if the game itself is solid. King's Quest most certainly fits that I think, especially the fan games. But hey, as long as we don't get into arguments like with the Zelda timeline, we should be fine. Now that's a convoluted and complex timeline...  ::)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 12:27:39 PM
Different people find different things interesting. I'm a bit of a historian, so I find chronologies interesting.

If you don't find it interesting, you don't have to read it, or take part in the discussion right? Why get involved with something you find boring?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 08, 2011, 12:30:25 PM
Different people find different things interesting. I'm a bit of a historian, so I find chronologies interesting.

If you don't find it interesting, you don't have to read it, or take part in the discussion right? Why get involved with something you find boring?

Occasionally, I enjoy being an ass just for the sake of it.  It's a way of entertaining myself.  Lol...we all have our little hobbies.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on February 08, 2011, 01:04:23 PM
:rofl:
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 08, 2011, 06:55:16 PM
I am positive you're thinking about this way more than anyone who ever worked, created or made these games.  Sometimes, you have to chalk it up to the fact that it's a FANTASY GAME and that sometimes real world principles, such as the passage of time, don't apply - especially in a world that has "the magical law of containment".


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 08, 2011, 07:51:10 PM
I have the magical law of containment...in my pants.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Enchantermon on February 08, 2011, 09:51:06 PM
I have the magical law of containment...in my pants.
(http://www.snapdrive.net/files/391413/Unnecessary.jpg)

;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:03:37 PM
Strangely, I give proper citations where designers did think of the "amount of time" passing between games, and the seasons they occur in, and people accuse the developers of "not thinking about it".

I must be getting under people's skins, hmm. I wonder why people are getting so defensive?

...or do people just enjoy trolling my threads? I.E. several people (I won't name names) keep on trying to derail the subject into other realms.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 08, 2011, 10:07:56 PM
No one's trolling; we're just voicing our opinions, which are different than yours. Nothing wrong with that. If there was legitimate trolling going on here, I'd intervene and stop it. Of course, we should try to be respectful of everyone's opinions too.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:14:29 PM
I'm just saying some people in this thread seem to jump back and forth between, "let's ignore what the developers said", "let's ignore intent" (we can do whatever we want), "a game didn't mean what it actually said", to "the developer's never thought about what they were saying", or "they never had any intent".

Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect to both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

Several people comes into this thread and basically states "who cares", or that i'm being "pedantic", both of these are borderline flammatory or defensive retorts and borderline verbal abuse. If you don't find this thread interesting you don't need to post really, it's not a helpful 'opinion', nor it is 'constructive'.

These all seem to be rather "defensive" points of view, wishy washy, and contradictory 'opinions'. People seem annoyed, where when I bring up the references made by the developers (both fan developers and official developers), where I compare where  they have chosen to make alternate storylines. They seem to assume this is an 'attack' on some point of view they maintain.

It seems rather illogical to me...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 08, 2011, 10:31:40 PM
I'm just saying some people in this thread seem to jump back and forth between, "let's ignore what the developers said", "let's ignore intent" (we can do whatever we want), "a game didn't mean what it actually said", to "the developer's never thought about what they were saying", or "they never had any intent".

Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if I accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

Several people comes into this thread and basically states "who cares", or that i'm being "pedantic", both of these are borderline flammatory or defensive retorts and borderline verbal abuse. If you don't find this thread interesting you don't need to post really, it's not a helpful 'opinion', nor it is 'constructive'.

These all seem to be rather "defensive" points of view, wishy washy, and contradictory 'opinions'. People seem annoyed, where when I bring up the references made by the developers (both fan developers and official developers), where I compare where the two chose to make alternate storylines. They seem to assume this is an 'attack' on some point of view they maintain.

It seems rather illogical to me...

I don't see the comment of "don't care" as either borderline flammatory or defensive. I legitimately don't care about the timelines much. I'm not personally attacking you. I'm not being mean in any way. I am stating my own opinion in a respectful manner. I enjoy the KQ games, fan or otherwise, for what they are. I don't get too involved in the plots. There's nothing wrong with timelines (I could go on all day about Star Trek timelines) but for KQ, I enjoy the games for what they are. If you feel you are being personally attacked, then I'm sorry. That isn't my intention, nor do I believe it to be the intention of other posters. We are all merely stating our own opinions.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:34:14 PM
Yet, your comment isn't constructive. If you don't care, then why even bother reading the thread, or posting? Waste your own time much?

What these types of comments really do, is just lead to derailment of actual topic. Off-topic discussions!!!

BTW, I surely hope you aren't "accusing me" of not enjoying the games because I might make threads like this?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 08, 2011, 10:41:10 PM
Yet, your comment isn't constructive. If you don't care, then why even bother reading the thread, or posting? Waste your own time much?

I'm a global moderator. My job is to read these threads. As for why I posted, I felt inclined to voice my opinion. There's nothing wrong with that. I tend to voice my opinions both online and offline.

And these comments aren't as off-topic as you may think; we're still talking about the timelines here. Now, if we started talking about Barbie dolls, then yes, that would be off-topic. But we haven't gotten to that point, and I'm hoping we never do.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:44:48 PM
No, I don't think we are talking about timelines now, I think we are talking about what we do and don't like about the games... How others like the game, might bother people, and their enjoyment of the games... Cause I've obviously stepped on people's toes somehow... We are discussing how people may get bothered by random discussions...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 08, 2011, 10:48:36 PM
No, I don't think we are talking about timelines now, I think we are talking about what we do and don't like about the games... How others like the game, might bother people, and their enjoyment of the games... Cause I've obviously stepped on people's toes somehow...

Well then let's just get back on topic: What do you think of the proposed timeline of A Tale of Two Kingdoms before it became an original game? Back when it was King's Quest 2 and a half. I admit, I like the 20 year gap between two and three, and there's a lot of story possibilities in that span.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:50:55 PM
I don't know enough about it to make much of a comment. I assume it would be no different than KoS and SNW for adding stories to that era?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 12:46:06 AM
The irony is that you successfully derailed your own thread just to complain about people trying to derail your thread.  ;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 02:01:11 AM
It was already derailed, by other people, once its off the tracks, you can't really get it back on (to derail it again). So that's not really "irony".

There was an attempt to get it back on the track, but your post just derailed it again..., so again this is not "irony".
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 09, 2011, 05:46:56 AM
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into. 

I'm not insulting you personally, Baggins.  I think your passion for all things King's Quest is admirable - I am suggesting that you are thinking a little too much about this one thing, and that your energy would be better spent elsewhere.  But that's JUST my opinion.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 06:42:25 AM
For what it's worth, I don't really care that much either.

But.

There are lots of things I do care about that most everyone else I know does not care about, so I know how it goes from the other side, too. Hobbies and tastes vary. I hadn't posted my thoughts about not caring because I figured that as long as you're having fun and not impeding anyone else's fun, you should go for it. If someone posts a comment that you feel is unconstructive, you can always just ignore it and continue on, or address the comment in a PM so you deal with it without derailing the thread.

So anyway, it's not of much interest to me, but it obviously is to you, so go for it.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 07:48:08 AM
Quote
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into.  
So you are saying you disagree, that your ending is 'any' different chronologically than the original game?

Despite the fact that they are different... It just seems you are argueing for the sake of argueing?

Your comment sounds like you are getting defensive for just the sake of it, or that for some reason you seem to "think" I'm criticizing your story? Or is it just argueing for the sake of argueing?

Only Sinister whom I'm assumed worked on the game as well came in here and posted fully civil posts, discussing that yes the endings were chronologically different. He never got defensive about it.

By the way there is a difference in "inquiring", and comparing... But it seems you missed that... I in no way "asked any questions". I was just comparing the differences between the two games, neutrally mind you (there was no judgement being made).

I'm sorry but your post is confusing.

Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 07:55:00 AM
Quote
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into.  
So you are saying you disagree, that your ending is 'any' different chronologically than the original game?

Despite the fact that they are different...

Your comment sounds like you are getting defensive for just the sake of it, or that for some reason you seem to "think" I'm criticizing your story?

I'm sorry but this is confusing.

It's only confusing if you're already reading more into things than you should be, which you are.  What BT said is that he disagrees that it's significant.  Not that's different at all.  Sure it's different, that's obvious.  But does it really cause a butterfly effect that totally transforms the timelines of every following game in the series?  Not really--unless you make all sorts of assumptive leaps that aren't really supported by hard in-game (or manual) facts.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 08:13:35 AM
Still in my opinion, even if the "butterfly effect" is small (only moving the ending and KQ4 to a few weeks), I still consider the ending to be significantly different than the original.

You may choose to disagree, but the placement of KQ4 is affected chronologically by when the ending takes place. One occurs during original KQ3 ending moments after returning, and the other occurs "some time later" after the return.

That's neither a bad or good thing in my opinion.

BTW, if people would actually read the timeline in the Omnipedia, I maintained that IA's KQ3 and KQ4 occur the same year. But are "some time apart". I didn't "assume" that it takes place into the next year.

So it seems some people are accusing me of going beyond "reading into things", when all I did was just use the vague placements made in the game.

If I had placed it into the next year, that "would have been" reading into things.

Perhaps you are the ones reading into my posts too much?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 09, 2011, 10:04:38 AM
No, I'm saying it doesn't matter.  My KQ3 happens, Alex gets home, Family reunited, Graham throws hat - paves way for heart attack city and KQIV to happen....  There's not much to think about there.

I'm saying who gives a ratsass about how these games occur in a timeline.  It's a series of games, not some kind of historical documentation.  None of this stuff ever really happened.  It's fantasy - you could say that it all takes place in one nano-second of real-time inside of a brain-cell in Roberta Williams head and it would have just as much potential valid truth as lying out some kind of "time-line".  I'm saying that wondering about "different time-lines" because of game variants and such is a useless gesture.  It changes nothing about the games - they still exist.  Your creative efforts are better spent on other things.   

I'm saying that you plotting out timelines for King's Quest is as useful as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.  I know it interests you, but I'm saying you should probably find a more useful interest.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: kindofdoon on February 09, 2011, 10:21:58 AM
Do whatever you want, Baggins. It doesn't matter whether or not a hobby is useful, only that you have interest in it.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 09, 2011, 10:34:58 AM
Okay, we've all expressed our opinions here and that's fine, but let's not directly insult anyone's habits, people. One man's garbage is another man's gold. So call it quits on that or this thread will be locked and we'll start handing handing out temporary bans.

If you've got steam to blow off, do it elsewhere. If you've got constructive comments and discourse to pursue on the topic of KQ fangame timelines, then please do so here. I don't want to see anything but that from this point forward in this thread.

(it's red so you pay attention  :whip:)


Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 01:42:09 PM
I've updated the KQ2AGDI timeline, with all or most in-game citations.

*AGDI timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/AGDI_timeline)

Interestingly enough based on specific dates given in the game, and various time references, Anastasia was born in about 1668 (her parents were killed "shortly after birth"), and we know their specific deaths were 1668 off the grave stones.

We also know when Herbert was born, and when Lavidia was carrying him in relation to Cauldaur's death (d. 1646), and even Lavidia's marriage (1 year before Cauldaur's death).

The the game places approximate 40 years between the death of Cauldaur and the "present" (based on references made to the creation of the swamp after Cauldaur's death, and before the present). There swamp was formed about twenty years after Cauldaur's death, and the monks discovered a way through some twenty years before the game (so approximately 40 years).

Putting all these references together, this would make Anastasia about 18 years old in KQ2+ (although she doesn't look much older than 12, at least until she becomes a vampire).
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Klitos on February 09, 2011, 01:45:54 PM
Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect to both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

My initial (and only) post was not an attack on you, your observations or anything else. Nor was I angry.

And I take offense at your line that I "actually claimed ... and accusing you of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3." What? You can't be wrong? My opinion is wrong because it comes up against what you believe? My opinion is just as valid as anyone's else in the interpretation of fantasy worlds and time lines. (Still not angry btw, just so you don't misinterpret what I'm feeling. Just a little annoyed.)

If you feel the need to try and fit my version of KQ3 into a timeline, then go right ahead. All I was trying to say is that what we wrote doesn't fit into the canon of the original game. And when we made the game, we didn't care that it didn't fit. "Some Time Later" was chosen to display ambiguity, not to quantify a specific time period.

I don't post on these forums on a regular basis but I thought that you might want to hear our reasoning for doing what we did. You obviously don't so that's fine. But trying to lock my KQ3 into a time line consistent with previous and subsequent games which IA didn't create is not going to work and as developers we considered KQ3 to be an alternate to the established canon.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
My initial post discussed the difference in time between the original ending of KQ3 and KQ4, and retelling in KQ3IA and KQ4. From the beginning I have stated that they are "alternates".

As you stated;

Quote
Nothing in the original KQ3 tells you how long after Alexander's return the whole hat throwing exercise was.

So you came in claiming that KQ3 (original) didn't actually show how much time passed between KQ3-KQ4. Katie corrected you pointing out what occurs in that game and that you were mistaken.

Quote
KatieHal said; As I recall, it's pretty clearly immediately after they return. End of KQ3, they enter the castle, rejoice, Graham throws the hat, and that scene repeats at the start of KQ4. Heck, Alexander's still in his Gwydion clothing right through to the end of KQ4

I gave a link video pointing to what happens in the game collaborating Katie's comments about the KQ3's ending.

BTW, Katie is right, at the end of KQ3 and beginning of KQ4 Alexander doesn't even change clothes, he's still wearing his slave outfit at the start of KQ4.

In KQ3IA he's given time to change into a blue outfit for the ceremony (obviously different than the outfit he starts out with in KQ4).

You also said I should think of them as "alternates" (which had you read my initial post you would have seen I have already been doing).

Your team chose to do something different with the game, I was discussing those differences.

I'm not trying to "fit KQ3 IA" into other timelines, it has its own alternate timeline (as it makes references to time, I've cited those quotes on the Omnipedia. It has differences with other fan timelines so it wouldn't do anybody justice if I somehow tried to merge the various fan timelines into one article (separate articles makes more sense).

The list of references from KQ3IA remains true to your game, thus using the quote, "some time later" (I do not assume that this means "a year", so I kept the events all within the same year as implied by your game).

I think from the beginning we both agree that KQ3IA isn't intended to "fit into the original canon", thus it has its own alternate timeline. I have not tried to fit it into the 'canon' timeline (it has its own). We are basically saying the same thing.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 09, 2011, 02:43:27 PM
Klitos--did you mean, way back when it first came up, that IA's KQ3 was vague about how much time had passed between 3 and 4? It sounds like that may have been what you actually were talking about, which would certainly account for some of the confusion all around.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Klitos on February 09, 2011, 10:12:47 PM
Not at all Katie. The time between KQ3 and KQ4 is pretty set in stone. The intro to 4 is the same hat flinging ceremony as the end of KQ3. I don't see how there is any other interpretation of these events.

The only time extension so to speak in IA's KQ3 was the addition of one scene where Alexander and Graham are bonding near the woodcutters house. This was specified as "some time later" because we didn't see how the addition of even up to a couple of months would effect anything else in the series. When we put that scene in, we very much had in mind that KQ3 needed to end with the hat throwing ceremony. Alex's clothes were changed because it wasn't appropriate for the prince of the realm to be wearing slaves clothes. The throne room was changed to a VGA version of the KQ6 throne room as it seemed reasonable that the Royal Family would take this opportunity to repair their castle as well as the entire land.

If you're after an inconsistency in our version, look at the special cut scene at the end where Mordac burns down Manannan's house. That directly contradicts the KQ companion!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 10:14:50 PM
How come the other thread got locked?  The brief bit of silliness had passed and we were back to having a genial on-topic discussion.  Just curious.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 09, 2011, 10:19:22 PM
How come the other thread got locked?  The brief bit of silliness had passed and we were back to having a genial on-topic discussion.  Just curious.

I'm trying to figure this out myself actually. I didn't lock it, and I don't know who did or why. Besides the butt photo you posted, it was alright. Maybe we've got a phantom poster on our hands?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 10:22:18 PM
Bizarre...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 09, 2011, 10:23:45 PM
I'm looking into it. The problem is that no admin is online that I can talk to. I don't want to unlock it until I get a reason for the locking to begin with.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Sslaxx on February 10, 2011, 06:21:57 AM
I'm looking into it. The problem is that no admin is online that I can talk to. I don't want to unlock it until I get a reason for the locking to begin with.
A fair few boards I go to have a policy of at least an admin or mod noting when they're locking a thread...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 10, 2011, 06:24:49 AM
We usually do that as well. I'm starting to wonder if it didn't happen by accident, but like DD said, I want to find out if someone did have a reason for locking it first and what that was.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 10, 2011, 06:37:54 AM
Still really bizarre though. I'm starting to wonder if I  accidentally clicked on something.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 14, 2011, 03:48:52 PM
So I started going through KQ2RTS again, and I came across another reference to time made in the game. Neptune states that Cauldaur stopped ruling the land some 4 or 5 decades before the game (this was when he died, 1646 according to his grave stone). Lavidia's son was born shortly after Caulder's death the same year (see gravestones).

Now if this is figured in, and based on known dates for Anastasia's birth (and her parent's death, see grave stones), this would mean that Anastasia would be between 18 and 28 in the game (despite looking like a young child).  

There is also a letter that was written "over twenty years" before the story, by Llow'wof, discussing how they had found a path into thet swamp, and intended to eliminate Cauldaur and his bloodline (a reference to the night they killed Anastasia's parents?). Which would support those events having happened over twenty years before (even supporting the 5 decades reference).

Serious what race is Anastasia? Part elf or something? Some kind of biological dwarfism? That's seriously a long time to "mature".

Quote
Not at all Katie. The time between KQ3 and KQ4 is pretty set in stone. The intro to 4 is the same hat flinging ceremony as the end of KQ3. I don't see how there is any other interpretation of these events.


Well you did say before;

Quote
Nothing in the original KQ3 tells you how long after Alexander's return the whole hat throwing exercise was. Multiple sources may say that, but who is to say what is canon and what isn't? I took the Star Trek approach, if it's on screen, it's canon. If it's not, interpretation can apply.

Katie reminded you what was actually on screen in the original. I'm glad to see you are now remember how things occured in the games.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 16, 2011, 08:22:25 AM
Who cares?
You know, it's a good point. I mean, I know Baggins is looking at this from a historian point of view but... for those of us taking a more "storyteller" approach.... does the season things happen change anything in the story? I don't think it does -- unless the mountains KQ5 are less snowy during warmer times of the year, but I doubt that since they're ruled by an ice queen.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 09:05:36 AM
You say you don't care but it sure seems you do care enough since you chose to come in and post. Me thinks though doth protest too much.

I'd say seasons matter enough to storytellers in that they use them to set the setting of the story. For example in KQ5 it is mentioned that it is spring, and later that Graham will be prepared the coming winter if he buys the cloak. This gives basic setting for the environment the protagonist is going through.

If you look at authors such as Tolkien setting the season was taken even further to incorporate elements of man vs. Environment scenarios or to just add realism to the world. Making it easier to relate to for the reader.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 16, 2011, 09:11:27 AM
Who cares?
You know, it's a good point. I mean, I know Baggins is looking at this from a historian point of view but... for those of us taking a more "storyteller" approach.... does the season things happen change anything in the story? I don't think it does -- unless the mountains KQ5 are less snowy during warmer times of the year, but I doubt that since they're ruled by an ice queen.


I agree.  Plus, who says the land of Daventry is bound to our meterological and seasonal rules anyway.  We're talking about a fantasy land where MAGIC exists.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 09:24:47 AM
Again, seasons are used by the game designers and authors to set "setting" for their stories. You can find plenty of references to the various seasons throughout the game series and books;

Spring (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Spring)

Summer (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Summer)

Winter (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Winter)

Autumn/Fall (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Autumn)

Yes surprisingly depending on the source, yes on occasion the weather is controlled through magic (see Land of Green Isles, and plot behind the novel Kingdom of Sorrow). But at other times its described as being a natural phenomena (even within a few references in Kingdom of Sorrow). It's bit against occam's razor to assume its by magic at all times. Even if it is by magic, the stories still assume that there are "four seasons" that follow the same course as real-world seasons enough to reference said seasons within the games (magic or no magic). So no seasons occur out of order of regular seasons, seasons are from 'winter', 'spring', summer', 'autumn' and back to 'winter', in that order.

In anycase, if somone changes the "season" in a remake, it would change the setting of the story from the original.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 16, 2011, 09:34:16 AM

In anycase, if somone changes the "season" in a remake, it would change the setting of the story from the original.

But again, unless it changes the core events in the games plot or puzzles, it really doesn't matter at all.  ;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 09:41:01 AM
It does create inconsistencies though between the two sources (and possibly others), minor inconsistencties, but still inconsistencies.

As for changing the game's plot, KQ3+ does change the plot from original KQ3. For example in KQ3+, Alexander and Rosella both have enough time between the games, to change outfits for the passing of the hat event. Alexander changes into a suit of blue, and Rosella changes into a pretty red number.

Whereas in the originals there wasn't enough time for Alexander and Rosella to change from the clothing they were wearing when they came down from the mountain after the dragon's defeat. Alexander was still wearing his slave outfit, and Rosella was still wearing her white dress with blue lining (during the reunion/hat toss).

In other words, KQ3+ doesn't fit with the details portrayed in KQ4. In movie lingo these various incongruities would be known as "continuity errors/issues" (which as people may know includes anything from objects moving/disappearing from a scene irrationally, or reversed images, etc). continuity (fiction) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_(fiction)). People have alot of fun spotting 'continuity' issues in fiction, see best continuity mistakes (http://www.moviemistakes.com/best_continuity.php).

Thus KQ3+ is part of its own alternate reality that has its own series of events, not tied to the canon reality.

More directly comparing the various fan-game timelines (they don't fit on top each other, nor were they meant to) set the years when each game takes place at different points of time.

For example the AGDI timeline places KQ7 about 22 years after KQ1, the TSL timeline places KQ7 at about 24 years after KQ1, the BI timeline places KQ7 about 21 or 22 years after KQ1, and the IA timeline places KQ7 about 23 or 25 years after KQ1. I find it interesting to see how each fan team has made their games chronologically different.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 16, 2011, 09:53:24 AM
Well, yes, but I don't think IA's KQ3 was trying to be part of the cannon that comes afterwards. So it seems safe to say that for them, it wasn't an issue or concern. It might be interesting to see an expansion of what followed from KQ3 and how that affects the rest of the storylines, but since they aren't doing that, it mostly comes down to an interesting narrative choice that they went with.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 09:56:08 AM
I agree Katie, and I've never argued that they were meant to be, :). From the beginning I've always stated they were alternate realities.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 16, 2011, 12:11:58 PM
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/downloads/exploding-head.gif)


Let's just say that if we remade King's Quest 4, it would be a simple matter of graphically changing the outfits Rosella and Alexander wore.  A simple.  Graphic.  Change.  Doesn't change the story one iota.  Graham still throws the hat, still has a heart attack, and Rosella off and whisks herself to Tamir to save him.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 12:27:18 PM
Yet, it is still a change to the story. The timing of KQ4 has been changed has been mentioned ad nauseum.

What is your problem with admitting to the fact that all I've been saying is that your version of KQ3 changed the stories (or rather I've been discussing the changes)? What is your problem with admitting that they are alternate universes? What is your problem with admitting that they are different?

At least Klitos, Sinister, Katie has stated that yes the stories are different. I've stated that the stories are different. We are all saying the same thing... I don't see what your getting at.

Klitos even pointed out that they changed the story by burning down Manannan's house, so he's been saying all along that your game made changes.

Do you have a problem with comparisons being made pointing out the changes? Do you not like comparisons being made?

Seriously read the timeline; you'll notice it just uses the references made in the game itself (numbers correspond to sources), with references made in other games in the series;

==Timeline==
BW = Before Wedding, AW = After Wedding.

*80 BW
The old gnome is born.[1]
*1 or 3 BW
Graham travels through Daventry to find the three treasures of Daventry, and then becomes king (it either takes place 1 or 3 years before KQ2 according to the game manuals).

*0 AW
Graham travels to Kolyma and saves the Valanice, and marries her (specific reference to time is given in KQ5[2]).

*2 AW
Rosella and Alexander are born in Daventry.

*3 AW
Alexander, still a young baby, is kidnapped from Castle Daventry by the castle Maid, and brought to dock in Daventry and given to Manannan.[3]

The family and many of kingdom searched everywhere, but found no clues to the prince's whereabouts.

*4 AW
In the spring, Graham rode out, with the help of his people to search for clues about his son (this became a kind of tradition, he followed each spring).

*19 AW
Alexander and Rosella turn seventeen.

*20 AW
For the final time, Graham and the people of the kingdom rode out during the spring for their yearly search, for any clues regarding the whereabouts of Alexander.[4]

Alexander-Gwydion escapes from Manannan during late summer a few weeks before his eighteenth birthday.[5]

Rosella is chosen as the sacrifice to a three-headed dragon.

Over the course of a few days[6], Gwydion learned his true identity, Alexander, returned to Daventry to defeat the three-headed dragon, and saved Rosella. He returned to the castle to meet his parents outside its gates.

The Royal Family and the people of Daventry begin work on rebuilding the kingdom, there was much work to be done[7].

During this time Alexander spends time with his family, learning about the kingdom.

Alexander and Rosella turn eighteen.

Some time later, following the kingdom's repairs, Alexander and Rosella are called into the throne room where Graham throws his hat to his children. During which he is struck by a heart attack. Rosella travels to Tamir to save her father.

Some time later, Mordack travels to Llewdor to rescue his brother, and burns down his brother's house.

*21 AW
Almost a year after being saved (according to KQ5 manual[8]) Graham takes a walk through the forest of Daventry. While he is gone, Mordack appears, uses magic to steal Castle Daventry, and kidnaps the Royal Family. Graham travels to Serenia and saves his family. Alexander meets Cassima.

*22 AW
Over six months later[9], Alexander travels to the Green Isles where he rescues Cassima from Abdul Alhazred.
Rosella (age 19) and Valanice travel to Eldritch and save Etheria (Rosella is nearly twenty years old according KQ7 intro[10])

1. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA): "This gnome looks to be at least a hundred years old."

2. ↑ Narrator (KQ5): "Twenty years have passed and King Graham and Queen Valanice have twin, teenaged children, Alexander and Rosella. Unfortunately, Alexander, as a baby, was stolen unnoticed from his crib one night. Help the boy find his way home to Daventry again."[1]

3. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA):"For 17 years, his only company has been the animals that inhabit the yard of his cruel master...", Manannan (KQ3IA): "It's been 17 years, Mordack.", KQ3IA manual, pg 7

4. ↑ Rosella (KQ3IA): "Every spring he would ride out for months at a time, searching for any clue, anything to tell us where you were.

5. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA):"For 17 years, his only company has been the animals that inhabit the yard of his cruel master...", "As it is now summer, the need to light a fire and cook hot food has diminished.", "There is a cheery fire crackling in the fireplace, even though it is summer.", Manannan (KQ3IA): "It's been 17 years, Mordack.", Chipmunk: "Have you got your winter's supply of nuts gathered?", KQ3IA Manual, pg

6. ↑ Alexander (KQ3IA): Highness, up to a few days ago I had always believed my name to be Gwydion.

7. ↑ Rosella (KQ3IA):"There's a lot of work to be done rebuilding the land.", Alexander (KQ3IA): "Yes father, but there is also much to do.", Narrator (KQ3IA): "As the rebuilding of Daventry continued, the citizens of the land learnt to love and respect Prince Alexander."

8. ↑ KQ5 Manual, pg, KQ8 Manual, pg

9. ↑ Cassima (KQ6): "Alexander, do not despair for me. I have been safe in this room nearly six months now."

10. ↑ Valanice (KQ7):"Now Rosella, you are nearly twenty years old, most of your friends are already married."

Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 16, 2011, 12:40:17 PM
I'll try to summarize what I think the difference is here before the thread gets as explodey as that gif.

Yes, it made changes, but I think the main point BT etc are making is that to them, those changes don't particularly matter. They're not interested in reconciling (or not) those changes with any particular timeline and they don't see them as greatly affecting what, theoretically, comes after. For example, while they burned down M's house, in the games we never see that house again anyways, so it doesn't really change anything. Rosella's adventure would start later than it did, but nothing in her game was tied to a time of year or specific date anyways, so that impact is minimal and almost negligible.

I don't think anyone's denying they made changes. They just don't think those changes are as important as you seem to, Baggins.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 12:56:57 PM
I don't think I'm trying to "reconcile" anything. I've just been comparing the differences. There is a big difference.

Also it might help, if you don't think of it as an "IA timeline" but an expanded summary of the story in KQ3IA (as explained by KQ3IA's quotes), summarizing events as portrayed in IA's KQ3.

Seasons aren't really touched on in it, other than a couple of reference to the seasons made in KQ3 (so the season's don't really make a direct impact on that particular summary).
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 16, 2011, 01:13:25 PM
All I'm saying is these are completely inconsequential details.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Sslaxx on February 16, 2011, 01:23:39 PM
I can think of people needing a nice cup of something...
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 01:40:35 PM
Seriously, all I've been doing is comparing the differences (comparing differences has nothing to do with "signifigance"). You are one of the only people trying to argue the level of "signifigance".  

What is the problem with discussing the differences?

Also comparing differences also has nothing to do with "reconciling" things, i'm not trying to reconcile KQ3IA with the original KQ3 or the canon. It's as krytos said, an alternate story.

Quote
Klytos said; Take IA's version of KQ3 to exist in an alternate timeline, in the same way that Smallville and the Superman movies are different, our interpretation and the official Sierra timeline are not meant to line up.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 16, 2011, 01:59:28 PM
This is how I feel about this thread.

MOD EDIT: Don't post gross pictures. You know better.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 02:02:06 PM
Lambonius again chooses to troll this thread with something that is in poor taste...

Ewww....
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 16, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
Seriously? You know I'm about to edit that picture, Lamb. I had to edit another post from you a few days ago. If it happens a third time, you're getting a temporary ban, the length of which is TBD.

You guys have differing opinions on the topic. I think it's really just time to leave it at that. Way past time, in fact. So agree to disagree and move on.

Guys, stop coming in here to try and provoke Baggins; Baggins, you may as well stop asking for explanation that you aren't going to get a satisfactory answer on.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 02:08:08 PM
Katie, I'm not asking for explanations actually. The initial stuff was just an analysis and comparisons to references from various fan games, and putting up links where analysis went into more detail. They weren't posed as "questions", but contained direct listing of citations.

I did ask for explanations for some of the more confusing references made in TSL though (the birthdate/four winds timing). Which imo you gave satisfactory explanations though.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 16, 2011, 02:09:27 PM
I specifically meant asking the IA guys why they were so against your efforts, actually.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 16, 2011, 02:09:42 PM
Lol....sorry.  I'll behave from now on, I promise.

I'm afraid I just fail to see the relevance in pointing this stuff out just for the sake of pointing it out.  It comes across as just nitpicking for nitpicking's sake, man.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 02:10:12 PM
Oh ok, Katie, I see what you mean.

Lambonius, listing citations has nothing to do with 'nitpicking'. Nor, have I considered the changes in any negative light.

However, I must point out that nitpicking is a respectable and enjoyable past time for many cinephiles;

http://www.nitpickers.com

http://www.moviemistakes.com

Don't take things so seriously.

If we are going to talk nitpicking movie mistakes; One of my favorites, look at Raiders of the Lost Ark, there is this point in the movie where a fly crawls into Belloq's mouth, and doesn't come out. It's a bit disconcernting when seen on big screen, LOL.

One of my other favorite sites was Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy in which he deconstructed the bad science found in science fiction/adventure/fantasy movies. His unique and educational form of movie criticism has since become part of Discover Magazine.

Bad Astronomy (http://www.badastronomy.com/info/whois.html)

I'd recommend avoiding movie analysis if I was you, ;).
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Klitos on February 16, 2011, 04:33:05 PM
In an effort to help you out Baggins, I've created a graphical time-line which outlines the continuity of IA's KQ3.

I hope this is of some use.

http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4013.0
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on February 16, 2011, 04:45:25 PM
:rofl:

It doesn't fit in the thread, though. Here's the direct link: http://www.infamous-adventures.com/klitos/kq3timeline.PNG
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 16, 2011, 05:09:34 PM
Finally!!  An exact date for the end of Alexander's potty training!  I can now put the stamp of completion on my "official" King's Quest series fanon.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 05:27:36 PM
Klytos, amusing, I'll add it to the omnipedia article, cause it makes me chuckle. :).

All its missing though, is a reference to when KQ3IA takes in relation to KQ1, ;). Based on the direction of that timeline, he must have been looking at dirty pictures in the magic mirror during that time... No wonder Edward contacted him telling him to get a wife.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: noonchild on February 16, 2011, 05:39:28 PM


Don't take things so seriously.


(http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/images/smilies/huh.gif)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 05:45:55 PM
I can't see your image, but when I made that reference, part of me was thinking about posting up an image of the Joker.

"Why so serious!?"

Klytos' timeline (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/IA_timeline#Timeline_by_IA.27s_Klytos) now has a prominent place in the KQ Omnipedia.  :rofl:  :suffer: :partyhat:
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: noonchild on February 16, 2011, 05:55:17 PM
That's not all that far off!  ;)

I wonder if the forum where I swiped the image isn't letting it load.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Klitos on February 16, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
:rofl:

It doesn't fit in the thread, though. Here's the direct link: http://www.infamous-adventures.com/klitos/kq3timeline.PNG

Basic windows tip #1. Scroll over to the right, it will reveal the rest.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 16, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Klytos I think you might have uncovered the secret plotline of Royal Quest!

BTW, did you realize that your funny-time line places KQ7 before KQ4 (or at least changes Rosella to over twenty-one in KQ7)?:rofl: :suffer:
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Enchantermon on February 17, 2011, 06:29:17 PM
In an effort to help you out Baggins, I've created a graphical time-line which outlines the continuity of IA's KQ3.

I hope this is of some use.

http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4013.0
Wow, lol.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 18, 2011, 07:52:19 AM
If we're going to get nit-picky... (which we inevitable do :P)

Baggins, in reference to KQ5..... you said that it is mentioned it takes place in spring, correct?

Graham buys a cloak and they say it will prepare him for the coming winter? Correct?

Right there, right there, we have a timeline variant. If it were spring the tailor likely would have said "It is all that's left from our winter stock" because if it is spring winter has just ENDED, it is not coming. (Well, I mean, it is, but no one is preparing for it.)

The graphics of KQ5 look more fall-like -- watch the intro, there are trees on which the leaves are beginning to change color. I've included a graphic to prove this point. (And also, to explain why I don't make graphics. :P)

Therefore, the KQ3 remake actually FIXES King's Quest 5.

Anyways, what we mean by changes in the story is not the setting -- we're talking about whether or not the climate or holiday celebrations affect the plot. The only time this happens in KQ5, but it's not a climate caused by WHEN but how high up in the mountains you are.
In other words, the only thing IA's KQ3 changed is the fact that King's Quest 5 makes sense now.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 18, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
Nice, cray.  :)

I like this logic.

Also, I like that you circled the mountains, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with your points.  ;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 18, 2011, 09:10:48 AM
He just wanted to make sure we enjoyed the view, too. :)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 18, 2011, 12:51:17 PM
I circled the mountains because the one is the same color as some of the trees I circled. I wanted to make sure no one thought it was an enormous pine tree -- this is not QfG3 after all!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 18, 2011, 01:51:27 PM
Actually it could just mean that Daventry itself is in southern hemisphere and Serenia is northern hemisphere. The location of the fly over area is quite unclear. It seems to be relates to the river in Serenia.

If you read the time line articles I didn't directly figure the seasons into big detail. I mainly only figured in references to years and the ones made in KQ3IA.

If you go a step further from KQ6 Hintbook it may be suggested that Icebella maintains eternal winter for her domain, interestingly enough.

On a side note if klytos timeline is 'taken into consideration' the season is largely inconsequential since he placed KQ5 almost 4 years after KQ3. Clearly different take than than official games took. It's pointless to try to reconcile them.

Btw having lived in England and higher north areas I can vouch that there are indeed plants/bushes/trees that have red/yellow leaves/flowers all year round giving a different appearance than 'green' from a distance. So color of leaves is not always an indication of the season, btw. It can depend in the species of flora.

Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 18, 2011, 03:22:16 PM
Actually it could just mean that Daventry itself is in southern hemisphere and Serenia is northern hemisphere. The location of the fly over area is quite unclear. It seems to be relates to the river in Serenia.
Most of the timeline is from the Companion, right?
The Companion has Serenia and Daventry next to each other, doesn't it?
Furthermore, Australians don't consider "spring" the time when leaves are dying. They still call that "fall" even though it's April.

Quote
If you go a step further from KQ6 Hintbook it may be suggested that Icebella maintains eternal winter for her domain, interestingly enough.
While that's interesting to point out, it's also highly likely that it's eternal winter because of the altitude. Either way, it means the only time in King's Quest where the temperature is taken into account (unless you consider the KQ5 desert) is not reliant on the season in which the game takes place.

Quote
On a side note if klytos timeline is 'taken into consideration' the season is largely inconsequential since he placed KQ5 almost 4 years after KQ3. Clearly different take than than official games took. It's pointless to try to reconcile them.
Of course it is -- that one is a joke. :P

Quote
Btw having lived in England and higher north areas I can vouch that there are indeed plants/bushes/trees that have red/yellow leaves/flowers all year round giving a different appearance than 'green' from a distance. So color of leaves is not always an indication of the season, btw. It can depend in the species of flora.
These are details obviously not everyone knows about that area -- and as such, in creating a setting (which is what you're saying is so important -- and you are correct that setting is important) for a wide audience, as they were doing in KQ5, you're going to use red/yellow/orange foliage to indicate autumn. Roberta Williams is smart enough to not assume that people would understand it otherwise.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 18, 2011, 03:29:34 PM
Quote
Furthermore, Australians don't consider "spring" the time when leaves are dying. They still call that "fall" even though it's April.

That's actually the point I was trying to make, that when its spring in the northern hemisphere, its fall in the southern hemisphere. The same is reversed for summer and winter.

We have never actualy discussed the Companion in this topic btw. I've already pointed out earlier that the Companion has its own timeline, that causes issues with other factors given by other official sources.

There are litterally like 3-4 differetn 'official' timelines.

Go check out the "official timeline" topic, somewhere down a ways.

official timelines (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0)

While Roberta had some involvement with the Companion, that doesn't necessarily mean her interpretation of Daventry had the two places close to each other, as Peter Spear placed them.

Infact if you go back to KQ3, Serenia wasn't even part of continent of Daventry.

As for the Roberta and colors of trees, check out KQ1SCI, there are areas in the game where trees look like "fall colors", but the game mentions it being spring at several points during the game (spring flowers are growing, etc). Granted it also has a bit where the "squirrels are collecting nuts for the coming winter". Nah, I don't think Roberta connected visuals to her descriptions in their entirety. She'd claim that a game takes place in spring in one location, and lie clues that its some unspecific time before "winter" in the same game.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 18, 2011, 03:45:34 PM
In KQ3, Serenia didn't exist yet. Much like, in KQ2, Llewdor didn't exist yet. It hardly seems fair to hold the fact that it didn't exist against it.

Anyways, even the "Official Timeline" on the Omnipedia -- not the Companion Timeline -- has citations from the Companion on it.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 18, 2011, 03:46:28 PM
Actually Serenia predates King's Quest in Roberta's mind, btw. Having appeared in a game long before KQ.

Quote
Anyways, even the "Official Timeline" on the Omnipedia -- not the Companion Timeline -- has citations from the Companion on it.

There isn't "an official timeline" on the omnipedia, there are 4-5 articles with the alternate variations from the various official sources. Pay attention :).

'Official' King's Quest Timelines (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King%27s_Quest_Timeline)
There is a main disambig article (that is being constructed), that includes all the conflicting dates, showing where they differ from each other (so it may list 2-3 different birthdates for the twins for example).
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 18, 2011, 03:50:35 PM
Regardless of the main series games, I can vouch for the fact that the season is a MAJOR plot element in KOS, and will be a huge part of our game.  ;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 18, 2011, 03:51:51 PM
Ya, Lambonius you are right. Seasons was a major plot element in the original KoS, :D.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 18, 2011, 04:30:58 PM
It's not a particularly good disambiguation page since it (clearly) is making things more ambiguous. :P I think that's generally why most disambiguation pages look more like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo_(disambiguation)). (I mean, seriously, aside from the timeline there that's the most in-depth disambiguation I can find.) That's not a disambig, that's an article.
That's all beside the point, however.

Anyways, since the timeline on that page offers the most detailed version of the time between 3 and 4 and it includes information from the Companion, I feel completely unapologetic about referring to the Companion's map.

Serenia as part of the King's Quest franchise did not exist until King's Quest 5. It was not mentioned in the games, was it? We did not have "King's Quest 1: Adventure in Serenia". We had "Adventure in Serenia" and "King's Quest 1: Quest for the Crown". Yes, now we consider it a part of the same world but that's primarily because Serenia reappeared in King's Quest 5.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 18, 2011, 04:48:47 PM
The disambig is actually at the top of the article, check the links to the other pages.

That timeline will actually will list all the alternate dates for when KQ3 and KQ4 take place chronologically. Based on some accounts 20 years before, KQ1, and by other accounts closer to 24. There is a good five year alternate dates given for those events.

It will make little sense to you as a proper timeline once, its complete. It rather mirrors more like the Police Quest chronology, and the one I've been working on for Gabriel Knight Omnipedia. I've also been working on a similar one for the QFG timelines as well.

The timeline that perhaps you originaly found the most clear (or rather it was the only timeline on the omnipedia at one pont) was actually the KQ4 Timeline (it used the KQ4 manual information strictly, but ignored certain aspects of other material, such as some of the references in the Companion itself relating to the timing of KQ2 for example). Even still there are two versions of that one, since basically, one would have to ignore the companion timeline, to utilize the KQ6 dates (KQ6 is about six months after KQ5, or 1 year depending on the source)!

So you'll find each of the side articles, may have 2 or more separate variant timelines of their own in the specific articles.

But each of the pages, share elements from each source, just reinterpreted around facts established by a each alternate timeline. So I have incorporated elements from the companion into each timeline, but they may not necessarily fit the timeline given in the companion itself.

In anycase, the continent being one or separate doesn't really mean anything, if the hemispheres split through the center of the "larger continent". You'd still have seasons different on one side, than the other.

Being a connected continent really has nothing to do with what side of the equator land may be on. It's the distance from the equator that affects the seasons.

As was the case with some of the super continents such as Pangea.

BTW, even the companion isn't consistent with the continents, the companion actually describes Serenia as being seperate from Daventry during the KQ3 period!  

It also describes daventry as more or less spring during KQ5, while winter is going on in mountains of Serenia! It even describes Serenia or at least mountains to the northern sea as being basically towards the Arctic far-north geographically.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 18, 2011, 05:07:30 PM
Holy Sweet Sweetbreads!  My head asplode.  There is entirely too much thinking about such mundane details here.  It's like you got together and smoked forty bongloads of weed and just started talking!

I don't think I ever thought this much about any subject in my life!


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on February 18, 2011, 05:11:24 PM
Holy Sweet Sweetbreads!  My head asplode.
:rofl:
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 18, 2011, 05:17:32 PM
BT, you've expressed your opinion on this already. Let's not start that up again, okay? If it's not for you, don't bother commenting on it.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Klitos on February 18, 2011, 06:42:24 PM
On a side note if klytos timeline is 'taken into consideration' the season is largely inconsequential since he placed KQ5 almost 4 years after KQ3. Clearly different take than than official games took. It's pointless to try to reconcile them.

Please Please Please Please Please see my time-line as what it is. A JOKE. It is never to be taken into consideration for anything except maybe for printing out and whipping your ass with if you run out of toilet paper. For God's sake, I killed the Fairy Godmother because she allowed Valanice to get pregnant!

JOKE!

JOKE!!

JOKE!!!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 18, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
BT, you've expressed your opinion on this already. Let's not start that up again, okay? If it's not for you, don't bother commenting on it.

Sorry, but like Klytos said - his timeline was a joke!  I was commenting on how amused I am at the discussion over a joke!


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Cez on February 18, 2011, 08:03:03 PM
Holy Sweet Sweetbreads!  My head asplode.  There is entirely too much thinking about such mundane details here.  It's like you got together and smoked forty bongloads of weed and just started talking!

I don't think I ever thought this much about any subject in my life!


Bt


LOL

Now you know how I feel everytime I see one of these threads going on about. I'm sorry, Katie, I know you  are trying to keep the peace in this thread, but I just had to say it. If we had Karma in our forums, I would have given BT at least 87 karma points for this.

Thanks, BT, I needed that laugh.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 18, 2011, 08:56:14 PM
I'm sitting on my hands for this one.

Literally.

I am typing this with my nose.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 19, 2011, 02:35:39 AM
I'm sitting on my hands for this one.

Literally.

I am typing this with my nose.
You're quite talented Lamb!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Sslaxx on February 19, 2011, 04:02:54 AM
I'm sitting on my hands for this one.

Literally.

I am typing this with my nose.
You're quite talented Lamb!
I know someone who could open security locks with her nose!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 06:46:42 AM
What I wanna know is how he hit the shift key to get those capital letters.... well, I suppose I could've hit caps lock. ;P
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 19, 2011, 07:38:33 AM
What I wanna know is how he hit the shift key to get those capital letters.... well, I suppose I could've hit caps lock. ;P

I use caps-lock instead of shift in my typing. I use the hunt and peck method to type, so what lamb did is pretty easy if you're skilled like I am. homerow FTL
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Really? Wow. That sounds like it must take much longer!

I type mainly with two fingers on each hand instead of all five, granted, but I still use the shift key. A few other fingers have slowly become part of the process over the years, though.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: dark-daventry on February 19, 2011, 07:49:16 AM
Really? Wow. That sounds like it must take much longer!

I type mainly with two fingers on each hand instead of all five, granted, but I still use the shift key. A few other fingers have slowly become part of the process over the years, though.

Actually, not at all. I'm a very fast typist. You'd be surprised. Some people just stare at me typing in awe.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 19, 2011, 12:16:59 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority,  but I was actually taught HOW to type in school.  :)  Now granted, I've altered the traditional finger positioning and movements and such into my own personal style, but typically I type extremely fast and without ever looking at the keyboard.  You almost have to be a fast typist if you want to do any kind of post-graduate work in the humanities.  My Master's thesis was well over 100 pages long.  ;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 12:20:22 PM
I took a typing class in middle school, but I was horrible at not looking at the keys and typing at the same time back then. Suffice to say I've much improved since then!

But this is rather off-topic by now :)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Cez on February 19, 2011, 04:00:45 PM
I joke with Emily sometimes about how when I would approach her at her desk in Telltale, she would be talking to me while still typing on her keyboard. She would just raise her head, talk to me, and continue to type on her keyboard as she was having a conversation with me. Freaked me out!!! That girl can type and FAST :)

I can type fast too. After so many years of working on this project, and communicating through MSN for the most part of it, you get to learn how to type really fast. There are some really slow typers on our team, mainly Petter, that really make me desperate when chatting with them. Thank God we now use skype most of the times!

Anyhow, back to topic!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: oberonqa on February 24, 2011, 06:05:30 AM
I read the first page of this thread... only to find that by the end of the first page, my eyes had rolled back into my skull.

Seriously Baggins... you are a compendium of knowledge.  A real life Crispin.

Now if only you could formulate your vast wealth of knowledge into something that was as engaging as it is informative (and perhaps cut down on the multitude of quotes in a post, as it gives the appearance that you are breaking down the post you are responding to into bite-sized pieces and then blowing up said pieces with a BFG-9000).

Sample Baggins Reply:
-----------------------------
Quote
blah blah blah
Oh yea?!?!?!  Well take this sucker!
<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Oh you want some more eh?  I'll be your huckleberry!
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Alas, poor Yorrick... I knew him well
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Persistent little bugger aren't ya?!?!?
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Nine hundred years old are you, look as good as me, hrmmmm??
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
It will not sleep, it will not eat, and it will not stop... EVER.... until you are DEAD!
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Luke, I am your father!
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Quote
blah blah blah
Told you I would be back!
<<<<<<aims BFG-9000 at the above quote and fires another shot>>>>>>

Any questions?  <<<<looks around and observes that the post Baggins was responding to has been completely and utterly destroyed>>>>>
Didn't think so.  :)
---------------------------------------------

I say we should petition Wilco to assign Baggins a special title...

Grahaminator

After all.... anyone with that much knowledge of the KQ universe and that much post destruction capabilities at his disposal should have a title that befits his special talents, yes?   :P

Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on February 25, 2011, 01:19:11 PM
If anyone is going to be named Grahaminator it should be someone who is actually named Graham....... *cough* :P
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on February 25, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
LOL @ oberonqa :rofl:
You do NOT want to get into an argument with Baggins. You WILL lose!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on February 25, 2011, 07:37:59 PM
Quote
If anyone is going to be named Grahaminator it should be someone who is actually named Graham....... *cough*

That's Graham in the photo to the left (my character in LOTRO), the character is actually named Graham.

Just noticed a post by one of the Developers of KQ3Redux, that actually praises my work over on the Omnipedia concerning their timeline subject, here (http://www.agdinteractive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14952);

Quote
It can take a few playthroughs of both Romancing the Stones and King's Quest III Redux to get all the links for the Father and Leginimor and how they tie together to form the entire back-story of both games (and even the events that occurred before the games). One site that has done a very good job at arranging the timeline and historical events of our King's Quest 2 remake, is the King's Quest Omipedia wiki:-Anonymous Game Creator 2

Such kind words from them, and shows how great and respectful team that they actually are.

If any of AGDI's developers read this, I say thank you.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 25, 2011, 09:12:48 PM
If anyone is going to be named Grahaminator it should be someone who is actually named Graham....... *cough* :P

How about the "Daventronian"???


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on February 25, 2011, 09:22:01 PM

Such kind words from them, and shows how great and respectful team that they actually are.


As opposed to...;)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Blackthorne on February 26, 2011, 02:06:08 PM

Such kind words from them, and shows how great and respectful team that they actually are.


As opposed to...;)

(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/downloads/belloq.jpg)

It's a shame the Hovitos don't know you like I do, Belloq.


Bt
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on March 02, 2011, 01:13:38 PM
Quote
If anyone is going to be named Grahaminator it should be someone who is actually named Graham....... *cough*

That's Graham in the photo to the left (my character in LOTRO), the character is actually named Graham.
That person typing this post? His name is Graham. Therefore, he (that is to say, I) should be the Grahaminator.

*takes a very theatrical bow*

But, Baggins, you can totally be the Daventronian. That's fine.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: MusicallyInspired on March 03, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
What's wrong with "Daventrian"? (pronounced da-VEN-tree-en)
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Lambonius on March 03, 2011, 05:00:24 PM

Such kind words from them, and shows how great and respectful team that they actually are.


As opposed to...;)

(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/downloads/belloq.jpg)

It's a shame the Hovitos don't know you like I do, Belloq.


Bt


HAHA!  YES!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: Baggins on March 04, 2011, 05:23:50 AM
To follow Cray's 'logic' that really should only apply to someone living in Daventry (its a region and town in England) or sharing the name Daventry.

What is it that TSl calls people from Daventry? Daventrian?
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: snabbott on March 04, 2011, 09:33:54 AM
Plus, it just doesn't sound as tough as Daventronian!
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: kindofdoon on March 04, 2011, 09:54:56 AM
What is it that TSL calls people from Daventry? Daventrian?

Yes, according to Hakim.
Title: Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
Post by: crayauchtin on March 09, 2011, 12:45:23 PM
Plus, it just doesn't sound as tough as Daventronian!
That's actually following my logic. :P

Psh, Baggins, trying to follow my logic. Shouldn't you know better? Logic is for lesser beings! I am not logical, I am the Grahaminator!