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The Royal Archives => TSL General Archives => Topic started by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:49:44 PM

Title: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 08, 2011, 10:49:44 PM
So what various aspects of King's Quest do each person individualy not "care about"?

In other words what aspects of KQ do you not care about?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Haids1987 on February 09, 2011, 11:52:36 AM
Interesting question...may I ask why you are asking?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 11:59:05 AM
Interesting question...may I ask why you are asking?
Turbulence. (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9967.msg313436#msg313436)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Haids1987 on February 09, 2011, 12:04:26 PM
Got it.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 12:06:49 PM
So, are we talking about just the originals or fan games? I ask because I should clarify what I stated in the other thread. It's cool seeing a timeline of original events and all, but when it comes to fan remakes that make changes to the timeline, I don't really care about how those changes affect the original games, because those changes are not official canon.
Note that this does not include TSL because:
1. It's not a remake.
2. There are no games after it that it would contradict.

Similarly, if Activision were to release KQIX and it conflicted with some of the things that happened in TSL, I wouldn't really care how TSL's timeline would affect KQIX, because they're in two separate timelines.

That being said, since there is no official KQIX, I choose to think of TSL as it anyway. ^_^
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Haids1987 on February 09, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
So, are we talking about just the originals or fan games? I ask because I should clarify what I stated in the other thread. It's cool seeing a timeline of original events and all, but when it comes to fan remakes that make changes to the timeline, I don't really care about how those changes affect the original games, because those changes are not official canon.
Yeah, I agree.  I've never played the remakes before, so I don't particularly care what happens in them.  To me, they don't affect the timeline for the official King's Quest games, so I just kind of skim over anything relating to them.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 12:17:08 PM
You really should; they're definitely worth it. I just don't think of them in terms of affecting the whole timeline.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 12:49:36 PM
Note that this does not include TSL because:
1. It's not a remake.
2. There are no games after it that it would contradict.

*Pulls out old can of worms and dusts it off.  Begins searching for can opener.*
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: KatieHal on February 09, 2011, 01:02:26 PM
That said, Enchantermon, we do have some ideas in our games that contradict earlier ones (i.e., Mannanan saying he had no intention to kill Alexander at any point).
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: dark-daventry on February 09, 2011, 01:11:18 PM
That said, Enchantermon, we do have some ideas in our games that contradict earlier ones (i.e., Mannanan saying he had no intention to kill Alexander at any point).

Well mannanan never explicitly said he was going to kill alexander to begin with, did he? I mean, yes, it was implied, but never explicitly stated. Or at least not that I can remember.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 01:15:08 PM
Yeah, but is that reality? Alexander is still in a coma when that scene was shown, so I was under the assumption that it was all in his head, and there fore not necessarily reality.

And yes, that's a rhetorical question, because I know it'll only be answered with a suffer. ;)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: KatieHal on February 09, 2011, 01:23:11 PM
True--that conversation DID look like it all happened in Alex's head.

Yes, Mannanan never SAYS he's going to kill you, but obviously we played around with the intentions that are more heavily implied in KQ3 that he does intend to do so.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 01:26:10 PM
I think you can discuss what you don't care about the original or what you don't care about fan games. It's all open.

I actually am interested in everything, so its hard for me to choose what I don't care for. I suppose I like the original games more than I like the remakes, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the fan games for what they are.

I also guess of all the official games, I care the least for KQ7. It is far too cheesy, has the worst villain...

I don't see fan games as affecting other timelines (i.e. affecting the official timeline), but creating their own timelines. But that's discussed in the other thread.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 09, 2011, 02:07:13 PM
I find certain things fascinating to think about sometimes in relation to fiction lore in general, but I don't care about them as much as some people do.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 09, 2011, 02:09:35 PM
I think you can discuss what you don't care about the original or what you don't care about fan games. It's all open.
Cool.
True--that conversation DID look like it all happened in Alex's head.
And even if it was reality (or a reality of some sort), Manannan could always be lying, trying to take hold of Alexander and turn him against his family (or at least break him). Or it could not be Manannan at all (since for all we know, he's still a cat), but instead Shadrack or someone else impersonating him.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Haids1987 on February 09, 2011, 05:25:13 PM
True--that conversation DID look like it all happened in Alex's head.
[/quote]
Hmmmmmm.  Well, in the words of Albus Dumbledore: "Of course it's all happening inside your head, Harry, but why on Earth should that mean that it isn't real?" ;)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 07:45:17 PM
The whole "manannan" intended to kill Alexander bit was implied by the KQ3 manual story (which explains his tradition of killing his slaves when they turn eighteen);

Quote
And so he went on, every 17 years kidnapping a small boy from his loving parents, then slaying him on the 18th anniversary of his birth. (Occasionally the cycle was shortened slightly, when he unfortunately chose a precocious child that learned too much before his 18th year.)

It is alluded to when take the magic wand from the cabinet,

 
Quote
"Narrator: You take it with you, knowing it could mean death if he finds it missing".


It is also part of the  special death ending in the game if you make too many mistakes or are caught with contraband;
Quote
"Manannan: You've discovered the secrets of `The Sorcery of Old.' Never again will you disobey me." ZAP!
There may be a few more references in KQ3, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

It's later mentioned more specifically in the later game manuals and in-game summaries in KQ5 and KQ6.

But you have explained you reasoning for changing things already.

Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 09:04:23 PM
*Finally finds can opener in the back of the utility drawer.*

"Ah!  There you are!"

*Crank, crank, crank, peeeeeel.*

"Aack!  GROSS!!  Worm juice!  Dammit!"

(Posted on: February 09, 2011, 11:53:40 PM)


The whole "manannan" intended to kill Alexander bit was implied by the KQ3 manual story (which explains his tradition of killing his slaves when they turn eighteen);

Quote
And so he went on, every 17 years kidnapping a small boy from his loving parents, then slaying him on the 18th anniversary of his birth. (Occasionally the cycle was shortened slightly, when he unfortunately chose a precocious child that learned too much before his 18th year.)

Whew.  Now that that's done...I just want to add that I would call that more of an explicit statement than an ambiguous implication.  ;)

What do they call it in math--the transitive property?  If a = b and b = c, then a = c.  Manannan intends to kill all his slaves when they turn 18.  Alexander is Manannan's slave.  Therefore, Manannan intends to kill Alexander when he turns 18.  Easy peasy.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 09:05:48 PM
I'm playing through the IA KQ3 again...

You know I don't care so much for the timer in the game... its absolutely worthless. It's not there to add a challenge, as there is no fear or danger of running out of time (since you don't have to climb back up the mountain everytime you go down the mountain). It's easy to pick up items, so very little time is actually wasted. You can finish every spell during Manannan's first trip.

But then you have to wait something like an hour or two for Manannan to leave on his second trip and return to get the secret cutscene ... You can't even task switch to allow the timer run in the background (the game pauses if you task switch).

It's all a waste of time, and the only thing in the game I consider poor design choice.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 09:17:18 PM
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/mooning.jpg)

Long live IA.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 09:24:03 PM
Nice <sarcasm>, child porn...  ::)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Blackthorne on February 09, 2011, 09:25:17 PM
I'm playing through the IA KQ3 again...

You know I don't care so much for the timer in the game... its absolutely worthless. It's not there to add a challenge, as there is no fear or danger of running out of time (since you don't have to climb back up the mountain everytime you go down the mountain). It's easy to pick up items, so very little time is actually wasted. You can finish every spell during Manannan's first trip.

But then you have to wait something like an hour or two for Manannan to leave on his second trip and return to get the secret cutscene ... You can't even task switch to allow the timer run in the background (the game pauses if you task switch).

It's all a waste of time, and the only thing in the game I consider poor design choice.

Yeah, I suppose that element is missing when you don't have the keyboard puzzles to eat your time.   The timer is there, though, mainly because it was in the original.   I would go back and redesign some things, like that, if I could.  But that's how we made it, and it works.


Bt
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 09:35:03 PM
I think it would have been at least better, if the game had more interactive spell system like the version seen in KQ2+ seen in the enchanter's cave.

Where you have to manually follow the spells precisely, in order, and use the tools on the table. This would have possibly "eaten" more of the time, making the timer have some purpose.

I actually liked that in KQ6 where you basically had to 2-3 steps to actually cast the game's three spells. 1. find ingredients (for some collect ingredients in order), follow each spell's special directions, and finally cast the spell.

In anycase, I wonder how KQ3R will handle it.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 09:37:59 PM
I think it would have been at least better, if the game had more interactive spell system like the version seen in KQ2+ seen in the enchanter's cave.

Where you have to manually follow the spells precisely, in order, and use the tools on the table. This would have possibly "eaten" more of the time, making the timer have some purpose.

I actually liked that in KQ6 where you basically had to 2-3 steps to actually cast the game's three spells. 1. find ingredients (for some collect ingredients in order), follow each spell's special directions, and finally cast the spell.

Yeah, we actually agree with this for the most part, especially in hindsight.  It's something we've all discussed behind the scenes.  If we ever go back and revamp our version, we'll probably revamp the spell system in exactly that manner.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 09:46:53 PM
On a related note, as I recall, in the original, the game timer paused any time you typed stuff on some versions, and at least paused when typing in a spell step (time would pass between each step). Most of the time was eaten up by climbing up the mountain, and moving between screens/exploring. You can't underestimate the mountain for its time sink.

But ya I found that timer in the original added thrill and surprises to the game. It added a bit of challenge to the game.

Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Blackthorne on February 09, 2011, 09:49:26 PM
Yeah, the spell system was something we agonized over during the production of our KQ3.  We didn't quite know how to handle it - we had several ideas, and prototypes programmed.  We knew we wanted to change it, because it was essentially just copy protection.  In the end, I think we just got frustrated, ran out of time, and said "Let's make it idiot proof!"  and made it the easiest we could.  

I think back on the team we were then - this was about 6 years ago now!  We were really fumbling our way through making it.  Just trying to get ourselves across the finish line.  Being able to look back six year really changes your point of view, in regards to design and programing, for sure.  I mean, imagine how they looked back at KQI in 1990.... 6 years before that was 1984.... heh, when KQI first came out.

Like Lambonius said, it's something we've talked about.  If we do an update to the game, that's one thing we would probably change.  


Bt
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 09, 2011, 09:52:23 PM
The standard AGI walk speed was also MUCH slower than the "VGA" walk speed in any of the remade versions of the games.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 09, 2011, 09:54:17 PM
Have you ever tried out the KQ3+: An Heir Raising Tale demo (I think it was being designed around the same time you started your game)? That game basically did away with timers (except in short term events). The puzzles were more linear, with scripted events. I've always found that to be a pretty interesting take on the game, and its a shame it was never completed.

Quote
The standard AGI walk speed was also MUCH slower than the "VGA" walk speed in any of the remade versions of the games.
That's true, that also ate time. As did the fact you had to basically walk up to an item before you could pick it up. There was no auto-walk.

In addition I think the timer runs faster in the original (at least on later machines). A minute in the game is less than 60 seconds.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: dark-daventry on February 10, 2011, 07:47:44 AM
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 10, 2011, 08:01:27 AM
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
It's cool; thanks. :)
In addition I think the timer runs faster in the original (at least on later machines). A minute in the game is less than 60 seconds.
Are you talking about faster DOS machines or the machines of today running the game in DOSBox? I ask because when I did my LP, I timed the clock and it was running at the same speed as normal time.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: atec123 on February 10, 2011, 08:04:45 AM
Quote
Are you talking about faster DOS machines or the machines of today running the game in DOSBox? I ask because when I did my LP, I timed the clock and it was running at the same speed as normal time.
in dosbox?

I haven't played the original KQ3 actually, so IDK.  but dosbox can adjust the speeds and stuff so if it was too fast, you could fix it pretty easily.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 10, 2011, 09:53:02 AM
in dosbox?
Yup.
I'm actually kind of feeling the urge to slap in on my old DOS machine and see if the clock is still the same speed.
Hmm...where did I put all those floppies.....
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 10, 2011, 10:17:48 AM
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: atec123 on February 10, 2011, 10:23:09 AM
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 10, 2011, 10:30:38 AM
AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
This is a very interesting statement, because I just played Gold Rush! for IA's contest and discovered that if you set the game speed to anything higher than Normal, the in-game clock stops running and time-triggered events will not occur. If the clock was using real-time, this shouldn't happen. However, if it was using CPU cycles, wouldn't changing the game speed make the clock run faster? Or am I misunderstanding things?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: snabbott on February 10, 2011, 10:39:40 AM
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
Yeah, I've wondered that, too. Did they not think computers would get much faster? ???
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: dark-daventry on February 10, 2011, 10:46:06 AM
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
Yeah, I've wondered that, too. Did they not think computers would get much faster? ???

Apparently not. And to think computers are still set to improve in speed down the line.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Deloria on February 10, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
I think we all know you just enjoy using your mod powers "by accident". ;)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: dark-daventry on February 10, 2011, 11:02:03 AM
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
I think we all know you just enjoy using your mod powers "by accident". ;)

XD as if. I admit it's great to have these powers, but I don't abuse them.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 10, 2011, 11:24:47 AM
AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
This is a very interesting statement, because I just played Gold Rush! for IA's contest and discovered that if you set the game speed to anything higher than Normal, the in-game clock stops running and time-triggered events will not occur. If the clock was using real-time, this shouldn't happen. However, if it was using CPU cycles, wouldn't changing the game speed make the clock run faster? Or am I misunderstanding things?

That's also a very interesting statement because that only happens with the cracked version.

(http://live.innovixonline.com/files/owl_o_rly.JPG)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: kindofdoon on February 10, 2011, 01:16:56 PM
That's also a very interesting statement because that only happens with the cracked version.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4438411230_1154bcbf1a.jpg)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: atec123 on February 10, 2011, 06:58:28 PM
That's also a very interesting statement because that only happens with the cracked version.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4438411230_1154bcbf1a.jpg)
(http://facepwn.com/posters/internet%20piracy.jpg)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: KatieHal on February 10, 2011, 08:18:04 PM
"Hawkward" might be my new favorite thing!
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: kindofdoon on February 10, 2011, 08:27:09 PM
It's one of my favorite small-times, somewhat unknown, memes.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Enchantermon on February 10, 2011, 09:03:02 PM
Ah. That would explain it.

And this is awkward.....why exactly?

Oh...because I'm supposed to feel bad about pirating a game that I didn't even know was still for sale until after I downloaded it? ;)
As I've stated before (somewhere, lol), now that I know it's available I will buy it since I've downloaded it. I just can't afford to right now.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: atec123 on February 11, 2011, 07:00:34 AM
Oh...because I'm supposed to feel bad about pirating a game that I didn't even know was still for sale until after I downloaded it? ;)
As I've stated before (somewhere, lol), now that I know it's available I will buy it since I've downloaded it. I just can't afford to right now.
anti piracy people would be seriously calling you out and lecturing you right now.

good thing i am not one of them. :P

it's ok. i don't legally own the first 4 kq games.  i probably won't buy them anytime soon because my parents don't like me using their credit card for stuff and they would be like "don't you already have them?"
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 09:01:38 AM
Hmm, so I played through last half of KQ3IA, again. Just noticing that the last half of the game seems less polished than the first half. The trail over the mountains are pretty buggy, I kept falling through the cliff in the first treacherous trail screen.

Alot of the material making up the varous screens from the beach into Daventry are graphics ripped from KQ5. In the beach screen the mountains in the distance are ripped from the frozen valley scene in KQ5 with the Half-dome in the distance. So it looks kind of hodgepodge and random. Once you get into the mountains themselves, the area with the yeti cave is ripped directly from various mountain scene graphics from KQ5, and kind of mashed together. I couldn't place the specific graphics in the cave maze, but they seem  to be mish mashed and ripped from somwhere as well. The background art in the last scene (the narrow trail) before you leave the mountain is a edited version of the KQ5 first flyover screen in KQ5 from the introduction. The area north of Daventry with the river that Graham flies over before flying over Serenia screen.

Daventry itself has many screens ripped from KQ5, and edited. But those at least make sense, as the artists were going for the look of trying to maintain consistency between the Daventry in KQ1 and KQ5. However, some of it is hit and miss in quality. Most of the outside Daventry scenes are pretty good edits. However, the scenes inside the Door into Mountain don't seem to match the same level of quality photoshopping to the rest of the areas of the game (it looks obviously edited). Albeit its better than the mishmash graphics rips up in the mountain.

But its not up to the quality of the original scenery seen in Lllewdor the desert scenery, or the outer edges of the country for example.

Here's hoping if they do a "Enhanced Edition", they can fix much of this material, polish it, make some of the scenes more original.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 11, 2011, 09:14:29 AM
To be fair, neither myself nor Jerminator were on the IA team when KQ3 was being made.  Our work, and the work of Fizzi has always been entirely original and hand-painted (digitally, of course.)  The difference between the group's freshman effort with KQ3 and the backgrounds in SQ2 and ESPECIALLY KOS is like night and day.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 11, 2011, 09:20:21 AM
Indeed. Also, to be fair the first iterations of KQ1 and KQ2 by AGDI were also Sierra mishmash collages of artwork. It wasn't until the recent updates a couple years back or so that they went entirely hand-painted.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 11, 2011, 09:27:13 AM
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/20-final-new.png)
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Blackthorne on February 11, 2011, 09:35:27 AM
Yeah, it's true - during KQ3, we used a lot of "collage" work in our backgrounds, as we just didn't have enough artists to do all the work required.  Our art team now, as Lambo said, does their own work and it's been stunning, I'll say.


Bt
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: KatieHal on February 11, 2011, 09:39:14 AM
Ah, the learning process. It's how backgrounds get hand-painted, and how Graham stops wearing jeans. ;)

Nice art! Is that a KoS screen?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 11, 2011, 09:42:19 AM
Ah, the learning process. It's how backgrounds get hand-painted, and how Graham stops wearing jeans. ;)

Nice art! Is that a KoS screen?

I can neither confirm nor deny that.  ;)  I'll just say that it's one of mine, with a minor collaborative pass-over by another member of our art team.  Most of our art is passed back and forth between two or three of us--there are very few screens that have only passed through one hand.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 10:39:22 AM
Quote
Indeed. Also, to be fair the first iterations of KQ1 and KQ2 by AGDI were also Sierra mishmash collages of artwork. It wasn't until the recent updates a couple years back or so that they went entirely hand-painted.

Oh I wasn't comparing which team does things better. I'm also not blaming anyone in particular. I'm just discussing the merits of the game as it was originally made.

Ya, KQ1 and KQ2RTS had a lot of graphics ripped from other games. Although I'd say even AGDI's early outings even though they were ripped/reedited, seemed to have a more consistent style about them through every screen. Perhaps because all the screens in KQ1VGA were pretty much that way they were in the original SCI version, so consistency is shared between screens (each was equally edited from the same source material).

Originally KQqVGA was meant to be pretty much a direct update to KQ1SCI, so was based on that original artwork. The Enhanced moved it slightly more away from the SCI (with completely redone rooms like the gingerbread house's appearance).

KQ2RTS, had the mainly ripped graphics on closeup scenes, like Door of Destiny scene with Graham's close up ripped from the Cassima/Graham scene in KQ5. Most of the artwork in that game was completely original.

BTW, even the Enhanced versions of AGDI games are not "completely hand-repainted" from scratch. There are still a few areas that use ripped graphics, with just slight touch up. I.E, the closeup scenes in KQ2RTS still uses the slightly retouched closeup of Graham from KQ5 meets Cassima scene. KQ1VGA is largely the same as the original version, but some of the backgrounds got retouched, smoothed over a bit (especially around the skyline).

It just seems there is a dramatic change in KQ3I's quality halfway through the game. The last half seems somewhat unfinished, and not as polished as the first half. Almost like playing a different game.

Although, there are a couple of places in Llewdor that look a little unpolished (with elements that don't much the screen they are in, the Three Bear's house looks a little off from the scenery around it). But most of Llewdor looks pretty consistent and polished with each other.

BTW, love the mushroom scene graphics. Great work.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: KatieHal on February 11, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
KQ2RTS, had the mainly ripped graphics on closeup scenes, like Door of Destiny scene with Graham's close up ripped from the Cassima/Graham scene in KQ5.

I think you must've meant "Graham's ripped close-up ripped from..." Seriously, the guy's built like a linebacker in that game!
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 11:01:58 AM
Ya, they ripped his ripped scene with Cassima from KQ5 :rofl:

Back to KQ3IA, why oh why did the team behind the game remove the ability to kick Manannan the cat?

In the original he was on screen after he turned into a cat, and you could torment him if you wanted to!!!

In the remake, he's mysteriously missing from the scene after the closeup shot. The team totally missed one of the fun bits in KQ3.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: kindofdoon on February 11, 2011, 11:20:06 AM
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/20-final-new.png)

Beautiful!
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 11, 2011, 11:24:28 AM
BTW, even the Enhanced versions of AGDI games are not "completely hand-repainted" from scratch. There are still a few areas that use ripped graphics, with just slight touch up. I.E, the closeup scenes in KQ2RTS still uses the slightly retouched closeup of Graham from KQ5 meets Cassima scene. KQ1VGA is largely the same as the original version, but some of the backgrounds got retouched, smoothed over a bit (especially around the skyline).

Barring the closeups, every background for both KQ1VGA and KQ2+ was re-handpainted. Not touched up.

Quote
Back to KQ3IA, why oh why did the team behind the game remove the ability to kick Manannan the cat?

In the original he was on screen after he turned into a cat, and you could torment him if you wanted to!!!

In the remake, he's mysteriously missing from the scene after the closeup shot. The team totally missed one of the fun bits in KQ3.

Ok, how would you have implemented that in a P&C scenario? Seeing as you have to pick the cat up as well?
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 11:47:41 AM
Quote
Barring the closeups, every background for both KQ1VGA and KQ2+ was re-handpainted. Not touched up.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure when I played the two games side by side, most of the artwork was pretty much the same. Some areas of the screen looked like they weren't changed much at all.

The original KQ2RTS had mostly original screens to begin with.

It looks more like the new artist painted over the original artwork, rather than painting everything from scratch.

Here is an example. (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Clear_mountain_lake_%28unofficial%29)

With earlier version of KQ1VGA, it seems more like the artists for that game just repainted over the original KQ1SCI artwork, with only a few changes here or there. Similar to what IA did with many of the KQ3IA screens.

IA's a bit different in that they also repainted over the top of many VGA graphics (see Daventry), whereas AGDI repainted over mainly EGA graphics.

Llewdor in KQ3IA would have course been repainting over AGI graphics (where repaints were made rather than completley original work).

Quote
Ok, how would you have implemented that in a P&C scenario? Seeing as you have to pick the cat up as well?
In the original you just type "kick cat". You would get a comment for kicking Manannan. I don't think it let you "pick him up".

In KQ3IA, you can still kick the other cat by clicking your hand on the cat (thats after getting the fur).
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 11, 2011, 11:58:48 AM
Ah I misunderstood. I thought you were just talking about the cat. The original game wouldn't let you kick Manannan either.

And KQ1VGA's graphics were Photoshopped. The remastered graphics were handpainted.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 12:01:20 PM
Quote
And KQ1VGA's graphics were Photoshopped. The remastered graphics were handpainted.
Yes, but what I've been trying to say is it looks like he handpainted over the original photoshopped graphics.

There is still a place in KQ2RTS, that uses a recolored version of Graham closeup from KQ5 with little change, except to all the handpainted material around him. He may have been handpainted over as well, but its still clearly the same Graham.

BTW, there is also a bit near the Door of Destiny (not the closeup) where the door looks exactly like it did in KQ2RTS original, without enhancement (kind of a brown door). But its certainly enhanced on the closeup (grey door).

Different cat! You can still kick that cat.

You can't kick Manannan like you could in the original though (at least in some versions of the original that I've played). You could at least interact with him in other ways, like "look cat" at least. But in the remake he's completely missing from the scene after the close up.

Hmm, btw, some people claim that spell casting was a form of copy protection in original KQ3. This isn't exactly true, as Sierra allowed the spells to be reprinted in many of the hint books (step by step). So it was in fact one of the easiest games to 'pirate'. It was cheaper to buy a copy of the hintbooks, than it was to buy the game itself.

Actually originally KQ3's form of intended "copy-protection" was the fact it was on a booter disk, that couldn't be copied by regular means at the time (and required the disk to play the game). This was the same copy protection used in earlier games KQ1 and KQ2.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: MusicallyInspired on February 11, 2011, 12:40:55 PM
Quote
And KQ1VGA's graphics were Photoshopped. The remastered graphics were handpainted.
Yes, but what I've been trying to say is it looks like he handpainted over the original photoshopped graphics.

There is still a place in KQ2RTS, that uses a recolored version of Graham closeup from KQ5 with little change, except to all the handpainted material around him. He may have been handpainted over as well, but its still clearly the same Graham.

BTW, there is also a bit near the Door of Destiny where the door looks exactly like it did in KQ2RTS original, without enhancement (kind of a brown door). But its certainly enhanced on the closeup (grey door).

I said BARRING THE CLOSEUPS.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 01:20:31 PM
I wasn't referring to the closeup, when I mentioned the brown appearance of the door. Apparently the sprites weren't all updated, the one that goes over the door on the non-close up screen.

In that instance the closeup was updated, but doesn't match up with the non-closeups.
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Blackthorne on February 11, 2011, 07:25:38 PM
In our remake, Mannanan the Cat runs and hides underneath the bookshelf, and having discovered his new ability, spends the next several months licking his own crotch without end.  After his adventures in self-fellation, he forgets that he's mad at Alex until his brother shows up and reminds him.

That's why you can't interact with him.


Bt
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Baggins on February 11, 2011, 07:36:55 PM
 :suffer: :suffer: :rofl:

Next your going to say that the other cat tried to mate with him :o
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Blackthorne on February 11, 2011, 07:43:04 PM
:suffer: :suffer: :rofl:

Next your going to say that the other cat tried to mate with him :o

Please!  Have some DECORUM, man!


Bt
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Lambonius on February 11, 2011, 08:17:43 PM
:suffer: :suffer: :rofl:

Next your going to say that the other cat tried to mate with him :o

Please!  Have some DECORUM, man!


Bt

Don't MAKE me come over there and show you the meaning of the word decorum!
Title: Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
Post by: Cez on February 14, 2011, 05:07:42 AM
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/20-final-new.png)

Beautiful!

seconded! Nice job!