KQ3+ Suggestions

[Jeysie]

Look at it this way... if Mannanan was that much of a jerk to his slaves, how would he treat his cats?

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Spikey]

Villians often treat their pets with respect.. Malicia with her poodle (or whatever it is), for example.

- Spike

[KatieHal]

::nods:: And Dr. Evil with Mr. Bigglesworth.

However, if said pet were a transformed former enemy....well, I can imagine that wouldn't go as well!

[racx_00]

Blofeld was never horrible towards his cat

Although evil ppl are horrible to everyone for some reason they are never horrible to their pets , kinda weird really

[Storm]

Spite.

Sure, we could go with spite... but an actual motive might be more interesting

Villians ARE always nice to their pets - sometimes the pet is the only one the villian can trust not to double-cross or judge them for their evil deeds

However, if said pet were a transformed former enemy....well, I can imagine that wouldn't go as well!

We could solve that by saying the cat fooled Manannan into believing he's an ordinary cat now, and doesn't remember anything of his previous life. That still leaves the question, how did Manannan turn him into a cat? did he use the same cat cookie Gwydion used on him? if so, there's little reason for the cat to assist Gwydion - the spell is irreversible anyways, so the cat would be giving up a comfortable home just so he could get revenge on Manannan

[Questing Character]

Hmmm...I like that idea, Katie!  Unfortunately, wouldn't that mean that Mananan's cat would want Gwydion to get some of Mananan's blood or hair to reverse the spell?  Perhaps we could make that a part of this...give Mordack a reason to think Alex does know how to reverse the spell, he did it before.

Also, I'd like there to be some kind of difference between Mananan and the other cat.  You can't tell which is which in KQ3.  It bugs me...

[KatieHal]

Storm, what I meant was that because the caster has to use, say, their own blood or whatever in the creation and casting of the spell, only that person can un-cast the spell. So Mannanan and Mordack would need Alex to reverse the spell on Mannanan.

Hmm...granted, Alex still wouldn't necessarily know HOW to reverse the spell. He only read the cookie spell to begin with, and never looked to see if there was a reversal.

Which is why they can't reverse the spell on the original cat in the house. Mannanan would never WANT to. Though Mannanan being a more powerful wizard, it's also possible he just snapped his fingers and turned the other guy into a cat.

[Storm]

Storm, what I meant was that because the caster has to use, say, their own blood or whatever in the creation and casting of the spell, only that person can un-cast the spell. So Mannanan and Mordack would need Alex to reverse the spell on Mannanan.

I know that's why I said:

Katie's idea solves the whole "why does a spell cast by a cookie should be undone by the original caster" angle.

Hmm...granted, Alex still wouldn't necessarily know HOW to reverse the spell. He only read the cookie spell to begin with, and never looked to see if there was a reversal.

That would be a bit careless on Alex's side... what if the reversal was something as simple as "jump 3 times"? Anyways, we could omit the "victim will remain a cat FORVER!" bit from the book and instead put in "Reversal instructions: this spell can only be undone by the original caster..." and have the rest of the page torn off

That would be a nice wink in KQ5's direction... But still wouldn't explain why Mordack and Manannan would know the spell can only be undone by the original caster but wouldn't know HOW, and think that Alex does know

Now, the alternate explanation (though more far-fetched) is:

A. There are 2 different cat spells -
   1. The cat cookie Alex uses on Manannan, which is
       IRREVERSABLE.
   2. The spell Manannan used on his cat, which can be
       undone only by the original caster.

B. To suppot this theory, Manannan never read the
   spellbook Alex used, it was hidden/locked
   somewhere.

C. Manannan and Mordack mistakingly believe Alex
   used the 2nd spell (the one Manannan used),
   therefore they think Alex is lying when he says he
   doesn't know how to reverse it.

D. If we decide to break the spell on Manannan's cat, it
   might be difficult since we'll need Manannan to do it
   willingly. So, we could either trick him into doing it
   somehow... or include another condition to the 2nd
   spell (preferably, a condition Manannan himself
   doesn't know about) - "the spell can only be undone
   by the original caster... or if the original caster
   himself turns into a cat".


I really think we should decide which explanation we stick with at this point, as it would effect the rest of the plot. I'm having a hard time choosing myself... maybe we should have people vote about it?

[Questing Character]

I'm liking the idea of the two seperate spells...that fits *really* well.

And there's really not a need to undo the cat spell on Mananan's enemy, it would just be a nice gesture.

[KatieHal]

Ahh, I see your methods to the madness now, Storm. Two spells would seem do-able, if the book Alex is hidden/one Mannanan never used or had.

For whatever reason, I'm a fan of the other cat staying a cat. It just seems to work better for having him hang with Alex for longer. Once they turn human, they usually seem to hightail it home, or at least, away. (See KQ4's Frog Prince, for example)

Now, what about the town? What should be added there? More shops, more story-line involvement, etc?

[Oldbushie]

Will the waitress still be busty?

[KatieHal]

LOL, of course Bushie. What kind of barwench would she be if she were not, of course, a lusty, busty wench? Silly questions  

[Oldbushie]

Yay!

[Storm]

For whatever reason, I'm a fan of the other cat staying a cat. It just seems to work better for having him hang with Alex for longer. Once they turn human, they usually seem to hightail it home, or at least, away. (See KQ4's Frog Prince, for example)

You mean, adding the cat as a companion like Cedric in KQ5 (or the companions in KQ9)? While I like the idea of a reluctant, semi-evil, only-doing-it-for-my-own-agenda companion, it has many points we'll need to work out:

1. How does Alex manage to convince the cat to join him? is it simply a matter of talking to him?
2. What does the cat help him with? he must help him more than once to be a worthwhile companion.
3. Even if the cat doesn't turn human once Manannan is defeated, why would he stay with Alex after that?
4. What happens to the cat in the end? Alex can't take him home, that's for sure

BTW Katie, if you like the cat to stay with Alex longer we could make the part of the game before defeating Manannan longer. I mean, take out the mountain path and the complicated spell-making, and that part would be pretty short once you know what to do

Now, what about the town? What should be added there? More shops, more story-line involvement, etc?

Sure! though I don't know which shops can be added... a fish-monger, maybe?
I did think about the town in another connotation. There's the unresolved issue of who raised Alex - after all, he didn't start serving Manannan when he was only one year old. He must have had someone take care of him until he was old enough to work, even if he doesn't remember it. Maybe there was woman from the town who raised him, and was later killed by Manannan? we could always say that the trauma of seeing her being killed made him forget all about that.

[Oldbushie]

I know!

Mannannan did kidnap Alex when he was a kid, but surely he had a maid to take care of diapers and such. Perhaps the *maid* was turned into a cat so she wouldn't blab anything.

It would certainly explain why the cat tries to trip Alex on those dangerous stairs. Because of all those stinky diapers she had to take care of.

[Storm]

It would certainly explain why the cat tries to trip Alex on those dangerous stairs. Because of all those stinky diapers she had to take care of.

Sure, that could work... except it would be saying something very disturbing about nannies everywhere

[Spikey]

I must say I'm encouraged by the ideas discussed here.. you gals sure have a feel for the KQ series. This man's definitely impressed! The KQ3 ideas are excellent.

Personally, I believe Manannan's cat should become human- if nothing else, just a great moment the fans can 'take in', and make it vital to Alex's gameplay.

- Spike

[Oldbushie]

Maybe Mannannan turned her into a cat-lady at night, I dunno...  

[Questing Character]

Hey, Spikey...I'm not a lady. Are you saying I haven't impressed you?

I've had some ideas.  First of all, I think that the whole game was too short to begin with originally, so I definitely support the idea of lengthening the pre-Manancat part of the game.  That would also give us opportunity to further develop the other cat.
I'm not so sure about this maid idea.  I'm sure he had one, but I bet they were just kidnapped peasant girls who Mananan killed when they were no loner useful.  That makes sense, doesn't it?

The town gives me trouble.  It clearly *must* be expanded...a town, especially not a port town, cannot have only two buildings.  It makes no sense and leaves the player wanting more.  I mean, at least make the effort of drawing in more buildings (in the foreground).  But, since we also need to expand on the bandits plot...we could give the town a sheriff.  Perhaps he was injured trying to arrest the bandits, managed to return to town, but now needs help?
And, we could put someone in the town who's lonely and needs a companion...the cat could be pawned off on this person to tie up that loose end.
As for adding other shops....that I'm kind of stuck on.  That's the problem with having a General Store...they sell pretty much everything.

[Oldbushie]

Maybe a House of Ill Repute?