Author Topic: Harry Potter  (Read 26251 times)

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2004, 01:58:57 PM »
I just wanted to drop in real quick and say that I did remember to pick up my HP class notes from home.  If anyone wants a copy of them AFTER I get them typed out (hopefully soon), IM me with the email addy you prefer to get them at.  Hope you guys enjoy!
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Offline Drunken Chinchilla

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2004, 07:28:30 AM »
I only read book no. 3 (translated) just to see what all the fuss is about.
My conclusion? Great PR work, and not much else.
The book itself is good, but it's not breaking new grounds, not doing anything that hasn't been done before - nothing to warrant all the mass hysteria around it.

I get what you're saying but when were they ever described as breaking new grounds or doing new ideas? Its clear that Rowling has many many influences within the book (LoTR is an obvious one whether she conciously chose to or not) so I don't think thats even the case here.

As Katie said they're good, solid stories that are actually *gasp* fun to read! (not aimed at you personally storm :p)
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Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2004, 07:40:51 AM »
(LoTR is an obvious one whether she conciously chose to or not)

I so agree with this statement.  I'm working on retyping my class notes...and there have been a couple references to things that happened in or just referring to LoTR.  I know there are more than I wrote down, but what's cool is to read Tolkien's "On Fairy-Stories" essay and then apply what he talks about what fairy stories are to both LoTR and HP!
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Offline Storm

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2004, 08:00:06 AM »
when were they ever described as breaking new grounds or doing new ideas?

I never said they were described as such - I pretty much said the opposite :-\
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Offline Drunken Chinchilla

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2004, 02:23:46 PM »
Ah sorry storm i Misinterpreted what you meant. I thought you were saying you had read or heard that they were breaking new grounds etc.
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Offline Kimmie

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2004, 03:04:57 PM »
i hav a professor snape
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Offline dew7

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2004, 12:01:43 AM »
This teacher must be really mean.   :o
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Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2004, 08:56:05 AM »
Quote
Complexity isn't always a good thing... especially in a book aimed at children, and most especially today's 20-commercial-messages-a-minute

This is true. I guess what I meant was it lacked some depth. Lord Voldemort, for instance, is a flat, stereotypical bad guy. Im not saying he should be sympathized with or a wishy-washy sorta, kinda, a bad guy... I simply mean his personality couldve been slightly more interesting and unique. He just doesnt stand out.  :P

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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2004, 02:20:42 PM »
Yup, one iota of individuality, something more powerful and sinister so he would become a really evil being would be nice. He just...well...doesn't seem ruthless enough somehow for the descriptions that have been attached to him (with all that potential power he has he could go about and usurp the entire regime of the "good" wizards through the incitement of hatred and violence within their ranks, once again however, that would not be appropriate in a childrens book!)

Sorry, but in the books I write the evil characters are extremely evil and a perpetrators of truly horrific things. Because of this, no evil character in a story seems to do justice to their reputation in my eyes, they don't seem...well...ruthless enough! (I do especially detest it when characters do evil things for the sole reason they were born with an evil sounding name!  ;))

BTW, why is Voldemort evil? *All the present Harry Potter fans mouths drop and stare at Shadowfax with a furious look in their eyes, "Well, don't you know why, how can you possibly, not, know?"*

 ;)
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline Drunken Chinchilla

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2004, 06:21:39 PM »
This is true. I guess what I meant was it lacked some depth. Lord Voldemort, for instance, is a flat, stereotypical bad guy. Im not saying he should be sympathized with or a wishy-washy sorta, kinda, a bad guy... I simply mean his personality couldve been slightly more interesting and unique. He just doesnt stand out.  :P

 I really wouldn't call Voldemort Stereotypical. If he was a sterotypical bad guy he would have virtually no motive for being evil, he just would be evil out of pure evilness. This is not the case and you find alot of motives in the books, especially chamber of secrets and goblet of fire. I wont list them because of spoilers but believe me he does have reasons for being a mega b**** and in the forthcoming book you find out even more as well.

(I do especially detest it when characters do evil things for the sole reason they were born with an evil sounding name!  ;))

BTW, why is Voldemort evil? *All the present Harry Potter fans mouths drop and stare at Shadowfax with a furious look in their eyes, "Well, don't you know why, how can you possibly, not, know?"*

 ;)

*SPOILERT!*
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Tom Riddle isnt really a very evil sounding name...to me anyway  ;)

Oh and *drops mouth in shock* YOU DON'T KNOW!? Go and read them again if you really do want to know :p
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Offline Drunken Chinchilla

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2004, 06:28:00 PM »
He just...well...doesn't seem ruthless enough somehow for the descriptions that have been attached to him (with all that potential power he has he could go about and usurp the entire regime of the "good" wizards through the incitement of hatred and violence within their ranks, once again however, that would not be appropriate in a childrens book!)

omg i forogt to quote this part too!
*SPOILAGE AGAIN!*
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Re:Ruthless - Cutting off your only loyal allies arm who has nursed you slowly back to health over the past year to regain a body isn't ruthless enough for you?

Re:Incitement of hatred, this is exactly what is starting in the 5th book! He's already sent people to get the giants on his side, he's already sent people to get goblins on his side, he's already corrupted and controlled high ranking members of the wizarding world to get things going his own way!

*breaths heavily and realises hes sounding like a HP fan boy*

WELL I AM!  ;D

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Offline Say

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2004, 07:01:50 PM »
hahaha, alex is spoiler boy :P


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Offline Louisiana Night

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2004, 08:03:16 PM »
Politics are not to be discussed on the public forum. You may send people e-mails, PMs, or use messengers to discuss politics, but it is NOT to be discussed on the public forum.

Until Say or Neil decide otherwise, this thread is locked.

Offline Yonkey

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2004, 09:17:01 PM »
Correct.  Rune consider this your first warning to leave politics and other offensive topics out of this forum.  I've modified your post and unlocked this thread, but I'll just remind everyone again that if such controversial topics come up again, the thread will be permanently locked.
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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2004, 02:32:43 PM »
Phew! I thought I had done something wrong for a minute!

Anyhoo,
Re:Ruthless - Cutting off your only loyal allies arm who has nursed you slowly back to health over the past year to regain a body isn't ruthless enough for you?

Sorry, no. I have seen the results of real life torture and other genocidal acts by the evil men that have graced alarmingly recent history. To me that is not ruthless enough (trust me, I have seen every hideous act that can be done.)

Re:Incitement of hatred, this is exactly what is starting in the 5th book! He's already sent people to get the giants on his side, he's already sent people to get goblins on his side, he's already corrupted and controlled high ranking members of the wizarding world to get things going his own way!

Well, maybe so, I talk about hatred in terms of outright brutality and violence (i.e. civil war). Besides, he needs a greater political powerbase within the wizarding worlds movers and shakers. He needs some form of assasination ring to eliminate undesirables and he needs to incite very, very wicked ideas into some heads before he truly succeeds (I would give examples but it would breach forum rules about politics/religion/race).

Sorry, its just that I write about far more evil villians than that of Voldemort (I would post an example of my work but you would need to be over a certain age to read it). Arghhh! Frustration!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 02:33:36 PM by Shadowfax »
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2004, 03:57:29 PM »
I dont think it isnt stereotypical for a bad guy to have reasons for being bad. (Id come down even harder on JK Rowlings if he didnt.) IMHO Lucius Mallfoy is an infinitely more interesting bad guy than You-Know-Who. Hes clever and devious... something Voldemort isnt. Voldemort is more of the "blow stuff up, kill people, for the heck of it" kind of person. Not my style, and not very deep.

BTW, what reasons are you citing for Voldemort to be evil? Its been a little while since I read the books... but I dont think they really give much in the way of reasons...  ???

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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2004, 04:01:36 PM »
Yup, Mallfroy has a far more vicious streak than Voldemort.

As for his reasons for being evil? Well I still do not understand as to why myself. When I read the books I did not see any particualar reason as to why (something about a rebellion possibly, ala Lucifer  ???)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 04:02:10 PM by Shadowfax »
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2004, 04:37:04 PM »
Yeah... me too. Arrogance is the most I can come up with. Maybe a lil prejudice too, but thats mere speculation. The few cases where the Big V shows up he certainly doesnt seem to care much about the whole mudblood / pure blood thing. Ahh well... One more example that she couldve done a better job on him...  :P
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 04:37:28 PM by FataliOmega »

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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2004, 04:45:18 PM »
I agree, he could have been more ruthless with that "mudblood thing," after all, it is technically a form of racism. If he was really wicked, he could exploit that in some form (once again, cannot give any examples as that would breach forum regulations but I am sure you can use your imagination as to how he could do it). Oh well!

BTW, we probably risk being burnt at the stake by some over-zealous Harry Potter fans now!   ;)
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2004, 04:48:43 PM »
*shrug* Ive never been particularly good at holding my tongue.

Besides, I like Harry Potter... I just think somethings couldve been done better. No writing is ever perfect... I think, for a kids book series, its not half bad.... No Narnia, of course, but C.S. Lewis was the best writer in the world... NO one can match him!  :D

I don't debate, I ramble with STYLE!
 

anything