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The Last Airbender has officially been named the Worst Movie of 2010

Started by dark-daventry, March 03, 2011, 02:53:29 PM

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Baggins

You know I see people in this thread praising Asia based on preconceived ideas based on anime coming out of the Asian markets. But what people are failing to realize these are more fantasy than representing the living culture. Take Japan for example there are many places there where a gay person could be fired if their boss is offended by their sexual orientation and could fire them for any minor infraction. As I've read apparently Japanese are fairly closed about personal sexual orientation with many homosexuals marrying opposite sex to show the appearance of normalcy as it could affect their careers.

No you really shouldn't take warped sense of reality from films as representing the actual cultural taboos. This is stereotyping. It's much in the same way that Hollywood is a very skewed representation of American culture, again filled with fantasy. I'm not using fantasy in the 'genre' definition but rather the 'imagination' definition.

Entertainment may be more open and less censored in Japan but there is still a stigma within the actual culture itself in many places in japan. With fewer anti-discrimination protection, i.e. in USA for example it would be illegal to fire someone over their sexual orientation, race, religion, etc.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Arkillian

They are still much less than western cultures. They have also westernised alot since the war. I wont get into the technicality of it though. If you're talking reality checks, the layout of asian films is actually different cause they have a different upbringing to us- one of extreme discipline. I'm not sure how to explain it, but asian films are more humble. They tend to focus on a person's spirit getting stronger more than them getting quickly more powerful. It's not common in asian story lines for an object to be the reason why the character is powerful. Western movies usually have power represented by objects, and they focus more on storyline movement. Both are great story telling methods when done right, but Eastern movies can bore Westerners, and Western movies can be too shallow to easterners (I'm not sure how accurate this generalisation is- this is based off observation and me showing western films to asians, and asian films to westerners)

If westerners make western movies, it works cause the characters are created to be more focused on things the western culture likes, but when they try that with a story created by easterners, what happens is that the focus previously of a village and their well being, and how they lived in harmony with the water and land around them is lost, and is replaced by a sweep of footage of the village and how cultural they are. Sweeping then to showing a disgruntled character wanting to see what the outside world is like- wanting to travel.... Neither are wrong, but the original translation of the movie can be lost. This is why Avatar fans cry, and newbies to the storyline watch it and are entertained.

I'm speculating though- I haven't watched this movie, so I can't tell. IT's also written by a man born in India, so his Indian upbringing may introduce a fresh new perspective on it that works. Perhaps I'll rent it this weekend so I can give a better opinion on it :) I've only watched a little of the anime, so perhaps I'm not biaised yet.

I am giving it as a reason why it may not have worked out. It's why DBZ failed so bad. They just didn't get DBZ at all.



Baggins

I've also read that the primary consumer of male/male homosexual fantasies (manga/anime/movies) is actually woman in Japan, not by 'homosexuals' as one would think. The primary consumer of lesbian fantasies is men.

This would seem that where taboos will allow something to appear as a fantasy, doesn't necessarily mirror the real-life demographics.

In western society at least American western society, as I understand it, it is usually gay men who are the primary consumers of homosexual material, and heterosexual men are the primary consumers of lesbian material.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

KatieHal

You may have recognized Dante Basco from the movie Hook, with Robin Williams, from the '90's. He played Rufio. That's where I know him from anyways. :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

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glottal

Ummm ... but isn't Avatar a Western cartoon show?  It was made in the United States, and while I only saw two episodes (in French), it seemed pretty obvious that it was made in the West, not East (with lots of Eastern influence of course, but something about the art and the dialogue shows its Western roots to me, just as Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water feels Asian even though it is set in Europe).

That said, I have no intention of seeing Avatar:TLA the movie, even if it is decent, because I think they should have cast more Asian-Americans in the lead roles.  There aren't that many movies which gives Asian American actors as good an opportunity as Avatar, so when they're denied good roles even there I find it disgusting.

Arkillian

Quote from: glottal on March 04, 2011, 07:56:21 PM
That said, I have no intention of seeing Avatar:TLA the movie, even if it is decent, because I think they should have cast more Asian-Americans in the lead roles.  There aren't that many movies which gives Asian American actors as good an opportunity as Avatar, so when they're denied good roles even there I find it disgusting.

Amen. DEFINITELY Aang should've been asian. It would've been nice if more of the cast were asian too though.



Enchantermon

Quote from: glottal on March 04, 2011, 07:56:21 PMUmmm ... but isn't Avatar a Western cartoon show?
Indeed. It was a Nickelodeon show.
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 01:16:18 AMLol- Card Captor Sakura was a GREAT series, but yes, America did rape the show of alot of it's goodness. I'm not sure how much as I've only read the manga, but I've heard that the anime got chopped alot.
Yeah, I never watched the English dub, but after watching the Japanese dub I read up on it. They pretty much butchered the entire thing, throwing episodes out of order, cutting out all of the controversial references and making a general mess of things. The intention was to make it more appealing to boys, so the first episode to air was actually the eighth episode of the series, the one in which Syaoran appears for the first time. They also only aired 39 of the 70 episodes. I had the unfortunate experience of hearing the dub voices for the characters, too.....wow, were they bad. Kero sounded like a surfer dude on crack, Tomoyo sounded like a prissy snob.....it was just horrible.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Arkillian

I'm not sure- I was told that the crew of Avatar the tv series were asian. Maybe I was missinformed :/



Enchantermon

There certainly could have been Asians on the crew, but it was made in America and produced by an American company. Another example that comes to mind is Disney's Buzz Lightyear of Star Command cartoon; it was an American cartoon (and a darn good one, too!), but if you watch the credits, you'll see several Asian names scroll by (Chinese, I believe, possibly Korean, or both).
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Baggins

Seriously, various Asian-american cultures, and various cultures from a Asia are different things altogether. Just having an Asian name, doesn't necessarily mean someone will have the same aesthetics of someone from across the seas even...

Although, interesting enough I remember reading that at one time Japanese that had settled in Hawaii around the time of WWII, lived closer to older traditional Japanese, pre-turn of the century, than many of the Japanese that lived in Japan. Japan had been extremely westernized by that time. So in some cases, pocket groups of an older tradition may survive by moving from the greater groups.

Hmm, back in the day, when one culture utilized the elements from another culture, or members of an ethnicity, it was called "exploitation"...  It's something that should be avoided if possible :p.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

glottal

Quote from: Baggins on March 05, 2011, 05:08:37 AMHmm, back in the day, when one culture utilized the elements from another culture, or members of an ethnicity, it was called "exploitation"...  It's something that should be avoided if possible :p.

Not really.  Cultures have been borrowing ideas from each other ever since the first time two cultures ever contacted each other, and it's a bit much to call every instance of a culture taking something from another 'exploitation'. Circumstances matter.

And it is certainly true that Asian culture and Asian American culture are two different, albeit related, things.  Classic example: fortune cookies, while served mainly at Chinese-American restaurants, were invented in San Francisco (by Chinese Americans).  I hear that they have only recently started offering fortune cookies in China, and that over there they call them 'American cookies' (this is third hand, so don't rely on this information).

Baggins

Actually as I was trying to point out, 'exploitation' is truly in the eye of the beholder... To some material being used causes people to feel exploited, to others it may make them feel as if their culture is being introduced to others, and is a good thing.

It's a thin red line, based on different circumstances, and opinions of those inside the culture.

For example, having spend time in Hawaii, you learn from many Hawaiians, do not like their culture being used for profit. Many I talked to for example really disliked Lilo and Stitch as it reinforced 'negative' stereotypes, and abused traditions that were sacred to them. Others I talked to, loved it, and liked how it introduced people to their culture, that may not necessarily know about them.

There was a big kerfluffle though, when Disney was trying to market a new luxury hotel, with the Lilo and Stitch brand, and many people protested because their culture was being used, and they didn't receive anything out of it.

Another problem that rises in Hawaii is that Hawaiians don't often get the jobs, working at the Luaus, and other touristy culture related stuff. Often the jobs are given out to other people of the pacific from Tahiti, Samoa, Phillipines etc. Because its apparently cheaper to hire them, than the Hawaiians themselves. So a form of cultural exploitation has risen out of that.

Back to Hollywood, I've read where some Asian actors were upset that for example someone of Chinese or Korean heritage would play someone of Japanese, rather than Hollywood going out and hiring a real Japanese. Again they felt their culture was being exploited, without their sayso or involvement. Of course, there has always been the David Carridine type actors, caucasian filling in the role of Asian.

Generally where the "line is crossed" is when culture, or ethnicity is used to make a profit or gain fame in some way, by someone outside of a culture/ethnicty. In which case the money an fame doesn't go back to the community which the person is "borrowing" from.

I was reading an article about The Last Airbender, where critics were acucsing M. Night Shymalan of exploiting cultures with his movie, and by casting "whites" in the roles. He argued, he is Asian, and could choose to cast whoever he wanted to, and pointed out that he had multi-cultural cast for various tribes, even going as far to hire African-American actors to represent members of the Earth Tribe, a group that were left out of the original tv series apparently. He went as far to call his critics 'racist' for attacking his heritage...

So ya, its a fine line, easily something people can have different opinions on the subject...
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg