Main Menu

King's Quest IV: Creepy

Started by Sir Perceval of Daventry, February 21, 2011, 01:47:54 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

dark-daventry

Quote from: Haids1987 on February 24, 2011, 07:53:15 PM
Duuuuuuuude, I remember this thread from the red boards and I totally know what you mean!  King's Quest 4 is totally creepy!  It's unsettling...the haunted house, the zombies, the feeling that you're alone in the whole world, but are being watched...ugh!  I always feel a little uneasy when I play the fourth game.

Oh man, the red boards. That takes me back a couple of years... I still miss the blue forums era though...

In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Haids1987

Quote from: dark-daventry on February 24, 2011, 09:20:29 PM
In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Ha ha ha! ;D  I keep a golden retriever somewhere near me if I'm playing something creepy.  I remember I was all alone in my house one of the first times I played Colonel's Bequest (which, incidentally, scares me in the same way KQIV does!), and when I discovered the first body I screamed out loud.  My dog Sydney ran into the room barking, and I was like, "I'm never playing anything scary without a dog nearby ever again!"
STATUS:
-Drinking water
-Checking the forum. 

Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
Leader of the "I <3 Doon" Fanclub

NW15

Quote from: Haids1987 on February 24, 2011, 10:23:22 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on February 24, 2011, 09:20:29 PM
In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Ha ha ha! ;D  I keep a golden retriever somewhere near me if I'm playing something creepy.  I remember I was all alone in my house one of the first times I played Colonel's Bequest (which, incidentally, scares me in the same way KQIV does!), and when I discovered the first body I screamed out loud.  My dog Sydney ran into the room barking, and I was like, "I'm never playing anything scary without a dog nearby ever again!"
LOL! I like that! Dogs rule!! ;D

Damar

I completely agree, KQ4 had some seriously creepy vibes.  There was just a general feeling of doom the entire time.  Graham is dying.  Genesta, who brought you here, is dying.  You're stuck in this fairly empty land that becomes darker the further in you go (with the pine trees, the thinning vegetation, and then the graveyard, mansion, and nasty killer trees.)  It's like Tamir centers around death.  In KQ6 we hear that legend says the Green Isles are closer to darker realms and death than anywhere else.  Well, the Green Isles got nothing on Tamir.

The feel of doom just continues throughout the game.  The troll is a prime example.  You're going through like normal, then suddenly you get that "GRRRRRR!" and the music, and then you're dead.  It's not even like past games or even like the ogre in that game where you can outrun him to the next screen.  He freaking follows you!  If you see the troll, you're dead.  That's it.  You're just dead.  You're on edge the entire time.

And then there's Lolotte.  She is easily the most evil character in any King's Quest.  There's just something about her coldness and calculating evil that makes her worse than Manannan or any of the others.  Lolotte toys with you.  She has no intention of doing anything for you, and you know that, and odds are she knows you know that, but she's going to toy with you anyway because you have no choice but to do what she says.  Lolotte seems so evil that it bugs me when people try to make her one of the Black Cloaks (like TSL did, and like the hidden letter in KQIII Redux did).  Honestly, Lolotte seems so evil, that being part of the Black Cloaks would be slumming it for her.  She screws with fairy queens just for fun!  She seems like the kind of person that Mordack and Alhazared or any other potential Black Cloak would steer clear of.

The whole game just evokes a feeling of dread and doom.  And what's incredible to me is that it does it just as well, if not better, than Mask of Eternity which had better graphics and music to set the mood.  King's Quest IV is dark and that's part of why it's such an awesome game.

Lambonius

Quote from: Damar on February 27, 2011, 07:36:38 PM
And then there's Lolotte.  She is easily the most evil character in any King's Quest.  There's just something about her coldness and calculating evil that makes her worse than Manannan or any of the others.  Lolotte toys with you.  She has no intention of doing anything for you, and you know that, and odds are she knows you know that, but she's going to toy with you anyway because you have no choice but to do what she says.  Lolotte seems so evil that it bugs me when people try to make her one of the Black Cloaks (like TSL did, and like the hidden letter in KQIII Redux did).  Honestly, Lolotte seems so evil, that being part of the Black Cloaks would be slumming it for her.  She screws with fairy queens just for fun!  She seems like the kind of person that Mordack and Alhazared or any other potential Black Cloak would steer clear of.

I totally agree with this assessment of Lolotte.  In general, this is why I strongly dislike the whole idea of the Black Cloak Society--it reeks of classic Jane Jensen cliched plot-interconnection.  Oooh, all the series villains were actually working together all along in a SEKRIT SOCIETY!!!!  OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!  So original.  Not.

It becomes even worse when you make all the villains the willing pawns of one UBER-villain.  It just retroactively reduces the impact of each villain as an individual malevolent force.  I liked Mordack a lot better in KQ5 when he was just an evil badass that just happened to be Manannan's brother.  He became so much weaker as a villain when we find out that he's part of some larger Black Cloak Society plot involving Alhazared and Cassima.  Lame lame LAME.

Lolotte is a fantastic example of this idea though.  She is such a great evil, calculating villainess on her own.  It completely belittles her to make her some pawn in a larger scheme.  I didn't like that hidden letter in KQ3Redux for exactly that reason.  Excellent points.

crayauchtin

In general, I don't like the idea of the Black Cloak Society encompassing every villain for the exact reason you mentioned, Lamb.

I don't mind Manannan, Mordack, Shadrack, and Alhazred (and even Hagatha) particularly since each was working on their own schemes. I don't even mind Dahlia being roped in.

That being said, I don't like Lolotte being a member because she is so much more evil than any of them. Putting her on the same level? I don't think so. I could see, perhaps, that Lolotte is secretly the uber-villain and each of the games afterwards is Mordack, Alhazred, etc vying for her position and trying to rebuild the order. But I don't think that would quite work either.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

Damar

I completely agree.  I like the villains each having their own motivations.  Though I think with creative writing in TSL, they can have their cake and eat it to in regards to the Black Cloak Society.  Basically TSL has their uber-villain imprisoned, so they could write these characters as being part of the Society, but that doesn't mean anything.  Take Manannan and Mordack.  Their cardinal sins would seem to be arrogance and hotheadedness respectively.  Even if they technically have a master, they'd still do their own thing because the master is locked away and never comes around (in the TSL universe).  Manannan can act like he'd never do away with Alexander because Alex is important or prophesied or whatever, but really, who's going to stop him if he did?  The guy trapped in the Zodia Stone?  Manannan does what he wants because he's an arrogant punk.  Likewise, Mordack was out for revenge.  He might have a master who doesn't want the prophesied ones hurt, but again, what is the uber-villain going to do about it?  Mordack's brother is a cat and Mordack is pissed.  He's not going to listen to the guy in a stone who's impotent to do anything and couldn't even stop some slave from turning his brother into an animal that licks itself for fun.

Likewise with Lolotte, TSL says that she's a Black Cloak, but even that could be explained away.  Apparently they want Pandora's Box and they knew it was in Tamir.  They could write it as the Black Cloaks just trying to butter Lolotte up, making her a member, trying to invest her in the cause, all so she helps them find the box and not smite them off the face of the earth while they look for it in her territory.  Her being a member would be more of a diplomatic thing, the Black Cloaks prostrating themselves to this bad lady because they know they can't meet their goals without her help.  And likewise, Lolotte might just play along so they help her find the box so she can keep it.  And then smite them off the face of the earth because that's just how Lolotte rolls.

So I think there's a way to connect them while still keeping the individuality in place, at least in TSL's universe.  I don't think they'll do that, though.  I think they're going to fully connect them all like AGDI did.  In my opinion that's a shame because it does remove some of the individuality and special evil flair all these villains had.

Anyway, I guess that's a bit off topic, but it does all come back to the main issue which is that Lolotte is wicked evil.  Don't mess with Lolotte.

Lambonius

#27
When I initially read your third sentence, I thought you were saying the writers of TSL needed creative writing CLASSES, in which case I was about to laugh my ass off.  But then I reread it.  lol  ;)

Joking aside though, I'm not really a fan of the idea of the villains of the series being connected AT ALL.  Not in the slightest.  I am okay with Manannan and Mordack as brothers, because it's plausible and works in the context of the series, and more importantly, it doesn't take away from their individual evil personas.  And seriously, anything that paves the way for the masterpiece that is King's Quest V is aces in my book.  I mean, Mordack wouldn't give two s***s about the Daventry royal family if it hadn't been for his older brother's debacle.  And Manannan was just an evil old dude who liked little boys.  That's all the explanation I need, and I'm off ready to go adventuring.   ;D

The Black Cloak Society on the other hand just seems like such a contrivance to me.  Connecting EVERY villain in the series with one overarching plot?  Oh, and they all for some reason are interested in screwing over the Daventry royal family?  Wow.  It's just so ridiculous and cliche.  It reeks of bad fan fiction.  And I'm not even talking about the ACTUAL fan fiction.  I'm talking about the whole Black Cloak Society idea that slithered its way into King's Quest 6.  It's just silly.  Not to mention the fact that it was just a throw-away idea that Roberta herself didn't even KNOW about.  Blech.

Baggins

#28
QuoteI didn't like that hidden letter in KQ3Redux for exactly that reason.  Excellent points.
It's also crazy that they made Lolotte the biological sister of Malicia... What the? So now Titania has two evil sisters, or Malicia wasn't really Titania's sister (cause Lolotte's letter makes it sound like she only has one sister)?

Ya, I know the letter doesn't specifically mention the name of Lolotte's evil sister,  but who else would it be alluding to? There aren't that many evil fairies in the KQ series to choose from right?
Quotegeneral, this is why I strongly dislike the whole idea of the Black Cloak Society--it reeks of classic Jane Jensen cliched plot-interconnection.  Oooh, all the series villains were actually working together all along in a SEKRIT SOCIETY!!!!  
QuoteI'm talking about the whole Black Cloak Society idea that slithered its way into King's Quest 6.
As for the black cloak society, KQ6 only really linked two villains together to any degree, Shadrack and Alhazred... Mordack is mentioned by Shadrack, but somewhat offhandedly as a "ninny at chess", and it seems more like Alhazred was using Mordack his own gains, to get rid of Cassima (this is somewhat supported by some of the comments made in KQ5 by Cassima about the "Vizier" as well). So as such Mordack may not even  be a member of the society, just a pawn of Alhazred's.

If you look at most of the quotes surrounding Alhazred in KQ6, it seems that the whole Green Isles conspiracy was his own idea (actually KQ6 Hintbook supports the fact that it was primarily Alhazred's idea), Shadrack seems to be treated as his equal, who is let in on Alhazred's plans. I don't think there is anything there that implies that he was leading the society. This is likely the reason why AGDI went the route of making him just another underling of The Father.

I think the later fan games do smell of bad fan fiction, because they read too much into the comments in KQ6 (taking things to an extreme). I personaly don't think KQ6 and KQ5 comments connecting a few characters together imply what the fans have assumed was meant (connecting everyone else).
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Enchantermon

You know, it's funny, but after I first beat KQVII, I thought that Lolotte was biologically related to Titania and Malicia (probably because of the green skin she shares with Titania). It wasn't until later that I discovered that they weren't.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Baggins

Ya, but in KQ7, Titania and Edgar speak of Lolotte, and don't say anything about being related to her. Infact Edgar goes as far to say he isn't related to her. If she was Titania's sister, she would have at least been another aunt!

So I don't see how anyone could have assumed they were related.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Enchantermon

Right. I should have added that I was much younger at that point and didn't quite grasp all of the information in the ending. Plus I was really excited about having finished the game for the first time. :)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Baggins

Well, ya I have to admit KQ7 ending is probably filled with too much exposition... tried to tie up all the loose ends all at once... It would have probably been better if some of the backstory could have been obtained earlier throughout the chapters, a little bit at a time, so as to not make it mind-overloading...
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Arkillian

Quote from: Baggins on March 03, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
So I don't see how anyone could have assumed they were related.

This may have just been poor word choice.



mythosopher

Quote from: Arkillian on February 21, 2011, 12:08:15 PM
Apparently KQ4 has alot of Lovecraft referances
No. F-ing. Way. I suddenly have twice as much love for that game now.

And for the record, that d*** troll scared the bejeezes out of me every time and p***ed me off because I could never get past him.

I agree that the whole game deals with "death" undertones; it's fitting. Graham is on the brink of dying, Rosella is hunting after this Fruit of Life. I think the life/death thing plays out well there.
~Mythosopher