Author Topic: Graham isn't that old  (Read 6837 times)

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Graham isn't that old
« on: March 17, 2011, 12:03:18 AM »
I know a lot of people tend to think he was an old man by the time of KQ5, given his gray hair, but the hint books to KQ6 and KQ7 prove otherwise.

KQ6, in the hintbook, is said to take place in the "25th anniversary" of King Graham's reign. The KQ7 hintbook states that KQ1 took place just a few days after his 19th birthday. Thus by the time of KQ5-KQ6, Graham was 44 years old, and 43 when KQ4 took place.

(And just a guess, but he was probably 55 at most at the time of Mask--I doubt it took place more than 10 years after KQ8, especially since in Roberta's vision [implied by later comments], Rosella's storyline as a maiden wasn't finished yet [she toyed with a KQ9 dealing with a love triangle between Rosella, Connor and Edgar] and I doubt she'd have Rosella still be unmarried at 30, 40 or 50 something)

I would think his age in those two books is canon since they were approved by Sierra/Roberta, plus one of the InterAction articles stated that Roberta wrote pretty comprehensive backstories for most of her characters--which is probably where things like Graham's age came from.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 12:17:10 AM by Sir Perceval of Daventry »

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2011, 05:56:07 AM »
Since the games take place in a psuedo-medieval time period, I think that has to come into consideration. In real medieval times, mid-40's would definitely be getting up there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time

Per that table, in real medieval Britain, expectancy at birth was only 35! Making Graham a marvelously healthy old man in comparison. ;)

If a person lived past 21, and was of the aristocracy (which Graham is), his expectancy went up as shown below that table, but either way, he's still in his later years undoubtedly.

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Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2011, 06:11:00 AM »
Since the games take place in a psuedo-medieval time period, I think that has to come into consideration. In real medieval times, mid-40's would definitely be getting up there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time

Per that table, in real medieval Britain, expectancy at birth was only 35! Making Graham a marvelously healthy old man in comparison. ;)

If a person lived past 21, and was of the aristocracy (which Graham is), his expectancy went up as shown below that table, but either way, he's still in his later years undoubtedly.

But that's the thing--It's not a historically accurate world by far. Graham wears medieval clothing; Valanice and Alexander wear clothes from the Tudor era; Cocteau from the Isle of Beast wears clothes from the 17th or 18th century. There's all sorts of technological anachronisms throughout the series. Houses from one era may stand a screen away from buildings of another in a style a century or older houses. You have characters talking in modern English in most of the games, and then everybody speaking in old English in KQ8.

Plus, there's the magical fruit to take into account, which promised Graham years of health and well-being if I remember correctly.

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 07:02:52 AM »
There is the magical fruit, true. And yes, it is all over the place, hence I used the term "psuedo" medieval. The point being, mostly, that it lacks modern medicine even if it has magic and whatnot, so the average life expentancy for humans would be lower than it is in our modern day perspective. While Graham isn't ancient, I would say he's certainly in the latter half of his life, and more comparably to a robust 50s or 60s from our time (and there are indeed some very robust folk in their 50s and 60s out there).

Anyways, that's my take on it and the references we make in TSL, at least, to making mention here and there to his age.

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Offline Baggins

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 09:35:50 AM »
This all depends on developers intent and what not (at any given time).

Roberta had said in interviews around the development of KQ8, that she chose have Connor as the hero, because Graham was 'too old to go on adventures', and Alexander no longer lived in Daventry. Note... Alexander and by proxy, Rosella were certainly 'young enough', age wasn't the reason given for the twins, for why Roberta chose to create a new character in KQ8.

Mark Seibert has said in hindsight though that KQ8 probably took place less than a decade after KQ7, 'a few years after' (he personally thinks he's 'now' old, but 'not that old').

The designers of Telltale games could have yet another intent altogether, and make Graham strong and healthy enough to go on more adventures.

As for Graham's age in any given game, it all depends on which timeline you go with. KQ actually had several different timelines created by various sources. Almost a different timeline for each game in the series, the Companion had its own different timeline, and novels had its own as well.

Peter Spear even nodded to the fact that there were multiple timelines when he said in the companion, that King's Quest takes place over the course of "20 or 25 years" (two alternate dates that would give Graham a different age). In some of the timeline variants Graham would have been in his early to mid-30's in KQ3 (and he was considered 'old' then!).

Graham is described as 'old' starting in KQ3 and KQ4, even in KQ5 with the fruit. So he is certainly an 'old man' by the writers standards. Like Katie said he's generally portrayed as robust.

It's Interesting to note that during some of the interviews made around KQ4 Roberta points out that she had come up with the use of Gwydion and the passing of the hat scene in KQ3 because at the time she thought Graham was old and it was time for him to retire, and for the next generation to take over. IIRC, during one of the articles concerning KQ5 she reiterates how she changed her mind, when she chose to allow Graham to go on one more adventure.

A timeline, an extremely comprehensive list of chronological dates, established by the various permutations of the various timelines in the games, books, etc. Color coded to show differences, and source. See additional links for separate timelines specific to each game.

I've come to the conclusion, that Roberta never really thought of the dates and timing of the games in any great detail... There are far two many alternate dates for any given event!

Actually, I don't think any of the main Sierra producers did in their games (almost every multi-game sierra series has multiple dates given for the same events with each additional game). Their are multiple timelines for the Police Quest series, Sonny has been given for example  4-5 different birthdays throughout the series, there are two timelines for the Quest for Glory series (with alternate dates given). Gabriel Knight has 2-3 different timelines (Gabriel is given 2-3 different birthdates for example!), Space Quest is all over the place, and a bit confusing to follow (though one can still glean a basic timeline out the various sources, for most of the games in that series).

You can find more links to various Sierra series timelines, here.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 11:13:32 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2011, 05:14:19 PM »
I'm 32, and I've been called old.  Those people can kiss my butt.

I'd say Graham's middle aged.   Harrison Ford showed you can still adventure when you're getting up there.


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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2011, 07:52:58 PM »
I'm 32, and I've been called old.  Those people can kiss my butt.

I'd say Graham's middle aged.   Harrison Ford showed you can still adventure when you're getting up there.


Bt


Shaddup, old timer!!!

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2011, 09:39:05 PM »
He's just cranky 'cause we won't get off his lawn. ;)

Also, I think even though Graham's only somewhere in his 30s in KQ3, he's definitely been through the kind of things that'll age a person!

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Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2011, 12:34:42 AM »
And some men gray prematurely. My brother in law is just 37 and his hair has gone from a dark brown (in his 20s) to bearing light gray now--the same sort of color Graham's hair is in KQ4.

Offline Ultima992

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2011, 01:15:28 AM »
 2011 This Year
-1984 First King Quest
=====
Graham's Age


 :suffer: heh?

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2011, 02:37:45 AM »
He's just cranky 'cause we won't get off his lawn. ;)

Also, I think even though Graham's only somewhere in his 30s in KQ3, he's definitely been through the kind of things that'll age a person!

You kids with your Dan Fogelberg records...... STAY OFF MY LAWN!


Bt
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you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2011, 08:45:22 AM »
Graham had gray hair in the original KQ1 and KQ2. Just saying. His hair color shade changes throughout tje series, along with his eye color,
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Arkillian

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2011, 03:42:27 PM »
2011 This Year
-1984 First King Quest
=====
Graham's Age


 :suffer: heh?

That's make him about my age... ;-D


Offline darthkiwi

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 04:31:58 PM »
I suppose since the KQ games openly mix time periods and mythologies and don't really have a solid foundation - it's neither medieval nor tudor, uses fairy tales, classical myths and oriental tales and has a nebulous and uncertain timeline - we can't say with certainty how old Graham is, or what that means. But that also means that the age itself is relatively unimportant: what is important is Graham's role within this framework. In KQ1 and 2, his role was that of the dashing adventurer; in KQ3, he was the old mentor passing his cap to the next generation; in KQ5 he was the reluctant but determined adventurer returning to another quest out of dire need. TSL has placed him in that position again, perhaps with more emphasis on Graham's age and how far the family as a whole has come - and perhaps how it's inappropriate and somehow unsettling that Graham, who began the saga but thought he had passed it on to his children, must also end it.

So Graham's age was never really an issue. He's simply "old", because that's what the story demands. Ordinarily that would be a bad thing, but since KQ is composed entirely of mashed up fairytales and patchwork stories it seems appropriate.
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Offline kyranthia

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 08:50:28 PM »
I always kinda considered the KQ world to be quasi Renaissance period.  Yes, there are some lands that are further ahead or behind that time, but then again, these were supposed to be other worlds too.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Graham isn't that old
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2011, 11:05:08 AM »
Daventry has been described as "medieval" in a few sources (this isn't entirely important of course).

However, Daventry has decidedly late 19th century-early 20th century water pumps! (there is even an early 20th century water pump in the swamp that is adjacent to Daventry in KQ8) Look at KQ1AGI, and even the witch's house, and the Woodcutter's house, have 1930's style architecture and furnishings. The Woodcutter's house even had a sink!

These are anachronisms.

Then if you go to KQ4, many of the people mentioned on the graves, and epitaphs are copied from real grave stones. The dates on those graves range up to the 1700's. A few references on the graves date the stones to the 1800's (the guy killed by Simon Byrne, a real historical boxer), and 'seidlitz powder' (a brand and product from the 1800's).

Hmm, one thing I found amusing is in See No Weevil, there are references to the American cowboys and lassoing bulls! At one point Rosella even dresses up in cowboy getup!

As one fan put it (I think it was Snabbot), if Daventry (and surrounding lands explored in KQ) are on earth as Roberta said it was. Then it and surrounding lands must be in a hidden lost world (so to speak), separated from the rest of the known world.

Of course since Roberta said it was a 'long time ago', it could be no later than early 20th century, since much of that technology exists Daventry!

Quote
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.c.../File:Daventryisearth.ogg

According to Hoyle 1, Colonel Dijon comments that Rosella likely lives in the 'Middle Ages'.

Quote
Colonel Dijon:"Girl, don't you know this is 1925, not the Middle Ages?"

Several references in Laura Bow II also suggested that Daventry was a kingdom from the Middle Ages.

Material for KQ8 states;

Quote
Heft your broad-sword and mete out punishment in a purely medieval manner.


However, Graham seems to suggest, he lives post-medieval world, probably closer to the present;

Quote
"That would be Ivanhoe, by Sir Walter Scott. It has action, intrigue, romance, adventure, and romance--very inspiring!. it's historically accurate, with all kinds of fascinating information about knights and the medieval world. Of course you have to take it with a grain of salt. Whoever heard of a world with no dragons, unicorns of magic?"-Graham's favorite book as he claims in an interview by the Bookwyrm in Interaction Magazine.


Even Rosella's favorite books in that interview seems to date Daventry closer to the present;

Quote
Not book, dragon friend, books. I love The Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis. It's a seven book series, set in a wonderful fantasy world where horses talk and evil witches live. There's a nice royal family who gets in all kinds of trouble and they always end up going on a quest--hmm, no wonder I like it."
In Police Quest, Daventry was contemporary kingdom on Earth, and things going on there, were discussed in the newspapers.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 11:32:45 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg