Author Topic: Did James Carville really say this?  (Read 34106 times)

Offline Baggins

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Did James Carville really say this?
« on: May 07, 2011, 07:01:12 AM »
 I found this quote on a famous quotes website, I'm curious about the veracity of it.
Quote
“Ideologies aren't all that important. What's important is psychology.

The Democratic constituency is just like a herd of cows. All you have to do is lay out enough silage and they come running. That's why I became an operative working with Democrats. With Democrats all you have to do is make a lot of noise, lay out the hay, and be ready to use the ole cattle prod in case a few want to bolt the herd.

Eighty percent of the people who call themselves Democrats don't have a clue as to political reality.
What amazes me is that you could take a group of people who are hard workers and convince them that they should support social programs that were the exact opposite of their own personal convictions. Put a little fear here and there and you can get people to vote any way you want.

The voter is basically dumb and lazy. The reason I became a Democratic operative instead of a Republican was because there were more Democrats that didn't have a clue than there were Republicans.

Truth is relative. Truth is what you can make the voter believe is the truth. If you're smart enough, truth is what you make the voter think it is. That's why I'm a Democrat. I can make the Democratic voters think whatever I want them to.”

James Carville
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Big C from Cauney island

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2011, 09:01:42 AM »
Read Machiavelli. Pretty similar. "Bread and circus", like the Romans used to say.  Also, did you hear about Obama's new executive order? Any companies getting contracts through the government need to first disclose their political donations during the bidding process? Interesting....

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 03:31:56 PM »
I'm guessing I'm the only Democrat here?

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2011, 03:37:05 PM »
I was a democrat, switched to independent. I have little trust for political parties. Too much corruption.

Guess that makes me a swing voter now. I think
Living in Europe really gave me a chance to look at things from a different perspective.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 04:06:11 PM »
Personally I'm a Democrat...We're the Party of Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson. 'Nuff said.

That said, if this was the 1970s, I'd probably be a Nixon supporting Republican. If the Republicans were more liberal, more sane, less vicious, I'd support them.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2011, 05:18:14 PM »
In power of retrospect I probably wouldn't have voted
for Rooselvelt or Truman if I was alive back then. they were largely behind quite a few things like ww2 interment camps... And to lesser extent nuclear testing which destroyed livelyhood of many people during he 50s (we still haven't helped the Marshallese as much as we should) Truman was also behind human biological testimg down in south america, infecting guatamalans with various diseases to find out how they affected them. I was trully sickened when i read through these documents and files (of those that have been declassified). But Hindsight is 50/50.

Many of these were complete racists, in case of Lyndon Johnson fought against eisonhower on early version Of civil rights bill, causing it to fail. He only voted on it again while he was a president when it helped him politically, he remained a racist to the end however. At least he got the civil rights going though. Bit seriously not a guy I'd trust especially in modern politics if he was up for election. Still for what good they did they also did alot of bad...

The same can be said for many of the Republicans as well... For example did you know that Lincoln was largely against giving citizenship to the slaves he ultimately freed during the Civil War? He wanted to send them back to Africa. Obviosly we are all aware of the good and bad of recent Republicans...

Granted people are complicated despite negative traits some good still can be had. I think it's very dangerous to hero worship any individual.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 09:15:16 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2011, 04:22:36 AM »
In power of retrospect I probably wouldn't have voted
for Rooselvelt or Truman if I was alive back then. they were largely behind quite a few things like ww2 interment camps... And to lesser extent nuclear testing which destroyed livelyhood of many people during he 50s (we still haven't helped the Marshallese as much as we should) Truman was also behind human biological testimg down in south america, infecting guatamalans with various diseases to find out how they affected them. I was trully sickened when i read through these documents and files (of those that have been declassified). But Hindsight is 50/50.

Many of these were complete racists, in case of Lyndon Johnson fought against eisonhower on early version Of civil rights bill, causing it to fail. He only voted on it again while he was a president when it helped him politically, he remained a racist to the end however. At least he got the civil rights going though. Bit seriously not a guy I'd trust especially in modern politics if he was up for election. Still for what good they did they also did alot of bad...

The same can be said for many of the Republicans as well... For example did you know that Lincoln was largely against giving citizenship to the slaves he ultimately freed during the Civil War? He wanted to send them back to Africa. Obviosly we are all aware of the good and bad of recent Republicans...

Granted people are complicated despite negative traits some good still can be had. I think it's very dangerous to hero worship any individual.

Well, the internment camps are a black mar on Roosevelt's record, but I suppose times were different then. This is a time when it was on the books that no people from Asian nations were allowed to immigrate here (through the Immigration Act of 1924 passed by Coolidge, which was very discriminatory and designed to keep "unwanted people" like Italians, Eastern Europeans and Asians out). I suppose it was a much less politically correct era, and most of the public supported it. We certainly didn't send them to the internment camps for no reason or to kill them as Hitler did to the Jews, gays and many other groups.

As for LBJ...He didn't fight against the Eisenhower bill in 1957 as Senate Major leader. He got a very controversial portion taken out--arguably the most important piece of it--to earn support of the bill by the strong Southern Democrats, who would otherwise have totally killed the bill. And passing the various Civil Rights Acts which he passed hurt him politically and he knew it. JFK didn't show much concern for Civil Rights until it was nearly at his doorstep. If anyone in the JFK administration was an advocate of civil rights, it was Bobby, and even Bobby had the telephone of Dr. Martin Luther King, JR tapped because of King's alleged Communist associations. The tapping of the phone was only supposed to last a month, but J. Edgar Hoover (who had made destroying King a personal crusade) kept the tapping going secretly for another 3 years. His insubordination caused both LBJ and Nixon to consider firing him, but they decided not to because it would not only be too politically dangerous but dangerous in general given Hoover's power.

Anyway, notice that in the Presidential election of 1964, quite a few Southern states went for LBJ's opponent Barry Goldwater, whom even most of the GOP had abandoned and whom most of the public felt was a kook? This broke through the Democratic Party's decades long hold on the South (it was called the "Solid South" in that it was solidly Democratic). This was in large measure a reaction to the Civil Rights Act being signed; Goldwater had been vocally against it's passage, and thus quite a few Southern states went GOP despite the incumbent President being a Southerner. And in the election of 1968, the South went even more for the Republicans; The South hasn't been a strong or dependable Democratic constituency since the Civil Rights acts.

Johnson could've stopped advancing the cause of Civil Rights after the election ended, but didn't and keep on with the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Civil Rights Act of 1968. He also fought for the creation of programs like Head Start and grants for Education, which helped the less well off, and minorities were among those in the category of "financially less well off" in the 1960s. You should listen to his tapes sometime--He recorded all of his phone calls and bugged his office--The man was aggressive in fighting for Civil Rights legislation to pass. Even after he left office he continued with the cause of Civil Rights. In fact, his last public appearance, a month before his death, had to do with Civil Rights.

He also appointed the first African American to the Supreme Court, Thurgood Marshall, and was the first President to actively speak out against the KKK and have it's members arrested since Grant.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2011, 05:09:44 AM »
Did I mention Japanese only? Actually look into the Aleutian Islands where the local indigenous people were forced into Interment camps to 'protect' them from possibly invading Japanese... Conditions were quite poor and many became sick or died.

He is turned Jewish refugees from Germany, sending them back, and ultimately resigning them their deaths there. Intellegince knew about the internment camps fairly early on.

Not many people actually bring this up. As for how people might of felt back then that still doesn't justify what he did.

There are still things I like about Roosevelt. But in no way would I consider him perfect and blameless as far as human rights concerns.

As for LBJ let's look at some of his own words;

"This civil rights program about which you have heard so much is a farce and a sham--an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty. I am opposed to that program. I fought it in the Congress. It is the province of the state to run its own elections. I am opposed to the anti-lynching bill because the Federal Government has no business enacting a law against one kind of murder than another...(And) if a man can tell you who you must hire, he can tell you who not to employ. I have met this head on." Austin, Texas May 22, 1948 quoted in Quotations from Chairman LBJ, Simon and Schuster, NY 1968

"...LBJ biographer Robert Caro notes that prior to 1957, Johnson “had never supported civil rights legislation—any civil rights legislation,” including anti-lynching legislation. His private behavior toward blacks was appalling. Robert Parker, LBJ’s longtime black employee and limousine chauffeur, claims that Johsnon blasted him daily with a blizzard of bigoted slurs. And even as LBJ was being praised by liberals for his appointment of Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court, behind closed doors LBJ’s cynical brand of “identity politics” became clear. As presidential historian Robert Dallek recounts, LBJ explained his decision to a staff member by saying, “"Son, when I appoint a n***** to the court, I want everyone to know he's a n*****".

"I'll have those n****** voting Democratic for the next 200 years." -- Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One Ronald Kessler's "Inside The White House"

"These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.” -- LBJ
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 05:22:58 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2011, 09:43:44 AM »
Alright. I get it, "Independent" (key word for Tea Partier). You're a conservative. You have your beliefs, I have mine. =

I will go and ahead and guess also that you find no flaws with conservative presidents like Reagan, Coolidge and Harding, and will probably defend (and likely praise) everything they ever did.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 09:56:18 AM by Sir Perceval of Daventry »

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2011, 10:08:40 AM »
Not a tea partier, nor ever have I been. Not do I have interest to do so.

I have little trust for any organized groups and I do not trust that they uphold my own values.

The best I can do is look at whoever is up for election and vote for whoever is closest to my values and less likely to cause damage.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2011, 10:11:41 AM »
Not a tea partier, nor ever have I been. Not do I have interest to do so.

I have little trust for any organized groups and I do not trust that they uphold my own values.

The best I can do is look at whoever is up for election and vote for whoever is closest to my values and less likely to cause damage.

Way to dodge the fact that you're a Conservative. You have an agenda. Don't mosey around it.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2011, 10:12:00 AM »
Not a tea partier, nor ever have I been. Not do I have interest to do so.

I have little trust for any organized groups and I do not trust that they uphold my own values. I especially have little trust for what is probably a Republican organization.

The best I can do is look at whoever is up for election and vote for whoever is closest to my values and less likely to cause damage to Liberty and freedom. I seriously think both institutions Are two sides of the same coin.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2011, 10:13:50 AM »
Not a tea partier, nor ever have I been. Not do I have interest to do so.

I have little trust for any organized groups and I do not trust that they uphold my own values. I especially have little trust for what is probably a Republican organization.

The best I can do is look at whoever is up for election and vote for whoever is closest to my values and less likely to cause damage to Liberty and freedom. I seriously think both institutions Are two sides of the same coin.

Give me an example of an American political figure who is closest to your views and least likely to cause damage to Liberty and Freedom

Offline Baggins

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2011, 10:14:44 AM »
I'm not a conservative either, but nice of you to make things overtly political. I have little trust for concervatives and their fundamentalist ways. They would rule by religion.

In general I try to avoid idealogues...

As an academic (working towards a PHD) I research every point of view and make educated decisions base on that. I have little time for ad homonyms and politic baiting. But I try to verify sources before I'd use them in a project.

I find people and history are far more complicated than politicians try to
Make it out to be.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 06:14:17 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2011, 10:18:07 AM »
I'm not a conservative either, but nice of you to make things overtly political. I have little trust for concertinas and thee fundamentalist ways. They would rule by religion.

You made things overtly political by trying to slam the Democratic Party using the alleged words of a Democratic operative, then managed to dig up things (from mostly conservative sources) which make two of the biggest Democrats look like evil men. I'd say there was an agenda here, and the fact that you still won't answer who you feel best represents your views, which political figure, says something as well.

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2011, 10:20:02 AM »
Just because someone disagrees with something a "Democrat" says, it doesn't make them a conservative or a Republican.   

Problem is that the world, and political motives, are not so black and white, yet people are trying to force things into this two-party system, which is essentially labeling things as "black and white".


Bt
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Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2011, 10:24:31 AM »
Just because someone disagrees with something a "Democrat" says, it doesn't make them a conservative or a Republican.   

Problem is that the world, and political motives, are not so black and white, yet people are trying to force things into this two-party system, which is essentially labeling things as "black and white".


Bt


In some matters, things are very black and white. Right now we're in a battle for this nation's future. The Republicans want to take this country back 100 years and undo every social program and institution put in place, even simple regulatory bodies like the EPA and FDA. Personally, I prefer the world of 2011 to that of 1901.

(Posted on: May 08, 2011, 12:22:21 PM)


I'm not a conservative either, but nice of you to make things overtly political. I have little trust for concertinas and thee fundamentalist ways. They would rule by religion.

In general I try to avoid idealogues...

As an academic (working towards a PHD) I research every point of view and make educated decisions base on that. I have little time for ad homonyms and politic baiting. But I try to verify sources before I'd use them in a project.

I find people and history are far more complicated than politicians try to
Make it out to be.

Yet you still have failed to answer who you feel best represents your views. Suspicious.
I have a feeling I know who a couple of them are.

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2011, 10:26:54 AM »
Just because someone disagrees with something a "Democrat" says, it doesn't make them a conservative or a Republican.   

Problem is that the world, and political motives, are not so black and white, yet people are trying to force things into this two-party system, which is essentially labeling things as "black and white".


Bt


In some matters, things are very black and white. Right now we're in a battle for this nation's future. The Republicans want to take this country back 100 years and undo every social program and institution put in place, even simple regulatory bodies like the EPA and FDA. Personally, I prefer the world of 2011 to that of 1901.

We're always in a battle for this nation's future - always.  It's not like the Republican and Conservative agendas have actually changed much in the past 50 years.  Society, however, is a fickle mistress and she sways and moves towards whatever suddenly feels like the "next best thing".  Because people are often wholly unsatisfied with life, even when things are good - people will often flock to something that they feel will affect change.  Hence, the swing towards popular conservationism.  The pendulum will swing again - and you'll probably have a period of mass "hedonism" (and I use the term sarcastically) again, much like the late 60's to the early 80's.....


Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2011, 10:32:01 AM »
Just because someone disagrees with something a "Democrat" says, it doesn't make them a conservative or a Republican.   

Problem is that the world, and political motives, are not so black and white, yet people are trying to force things into this two-party system, which is essentially labeling things as "black and white".


Bt


In some matters, things are very black and white. Right now we're in a battle for this nation's future. The Republicans want to take this country back 100 years and undo every social program and institution put in place, even simple regulatory bodies like the EPA and FDA. Personally, I prefer the world of 2011 to that of 1901.

We're always in a battle for this nation's future - always.  It's not like the Republican and Conservative agendas have actually changed much in the past 50 years.  Society, however, is a fickle mistress and she sways and moves towards whatever suddenly feels like the "next best thing".  Because people are often wholly unsatisfied with life, even when things are good - people will often flock to something that they feel will affect change.  Hence, the swing towards popular conservationism.  The pendulum will swing again - and you'll probably have a period of mass "hedonism" (and I use the term sarcastically) again, much like the late 60's to the early 80's.....


Bt


The Republican Party was once a sensible organization, and now it's full of nutbags like Malkin, Palin, Glenn Beck, etc. Eisenhower was a Republican and he expanded Social Security, called for higher wages, and protected unions; Nixon created the EPA, OSHA, SSI, SSDI, imposed wage and price controls, and called for Universal Healthcare in 1974. Going further back you have TR, who created the FDA and fought against the excess of big businesses and placed regulations on them. Since the 1980s, however, the Republican Party has become increasingly the home of anti-intellectuals, extreme John Bircher types, and theocrats.

All of the above men today would be called Socialists, Communists, anti-American, the same things the Democratic Party and our current President are being called.

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Did James Carville really say this?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 02:35:16 PM »
Perceval, you're not the only democrat here. While I am registered as an independent, I swing more to the democractic side, and that's probably because both of my parents are hardcore democrats.
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