Politics in games

[MikPal]

Penn Gillette and Teller

Not going to take part in any talk about politics, but you spell the name with a "J" instead of a "G". According to Jillette's own words his grandfather wanted to feel smart so he decided to change the "G" to "J".

[Baggins]

Thank you, I fixed that.

Back to politics and games, what about the topic of violence in video games? Many violent video games are pro-military propaganda in manyways. A few toss in anti-war messages though as well.

Penn and Teller had a pretty good episode on the subject, more of a defense of violent video games!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIB3Jw6djjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oA9IUPTjLI

[Damar]

Speaking of Penn and Teller and their issues with people talking about violence in games, their biggest political statement in that regard was the video game Desert Bus.  It was part of an unreleased Sega CD game they put together with a bunch of minigames.  The Desert Bus minigame was one massive political statement.

Apparently they were bothered by legislation against violent video games and at the time Janet Reno said something about how games should stop trying to be so fantastical and shocking and instead try to foster important skills that could be used in life or some such.  So Penn and Teller created Desert Bus.  You're driving a bus down a desert road.  There are no turns and you have to drive the speed limit.  And it's a realistic game.  You're driving from Tuscan to Las Vegas.  In real time.  The bus isn't centered well, so you can't just tape the accelerator button down and walk away from the controller.  If you go off the road, the bus stops and you get towed back to start.  Again, in real time.  The game takes 8 hours to complete.  If you complete the game you are given the opportunity to drive back to Tuscan.  In real time.  Oh, and you're given 1 point.  It is possibly the most sarcastic, passive-aggressive game ever created.  It's only purpose is to say, "You stupid crybabies want a nonviolent, realistic game?  You think that will sell?  Then drive a bus for 8 hours, losers!"

Here's a clip of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMbWmZ7SG-c

8 hours of that.  That's a political statement and a half.

[Baggins]

Lol, great message. They should make a sequel: Desert Bus 2: Texas!

I find both the right and the left, have attempted to ban me from my games over the years for whatever odd reason... Hillary Clinton has tried to ban them several times, as one example on the left... The fundy christian conservatives on the right... Leave my games alone.

Actually as I recall Phantasmagoria was one of those games that got called out by the video game police on both sides back in the day, for its violence and rape scene!

[MikPal]

You're propably thinking about Nightrap.

[Baggins]

Nightrap is another one they have complained about over the years actually.

[glottal]

Oh, and I've read that the entire concept of "A Mind Forever Voyaging" is based on Steve Meretzky's opinion of Regan's politics (haven't play the game yet, though).

[Baggins]

That's a text adventure right? I think I have a copy on Infocom Masterpieces cd. Never played it.

[Big C from Cauney island]

When doom came out, that was a big deal, especially the hell portions. I always felt like a deviant or something playing it, but now stuff like that is pretty common place. The F.E.A.R series , for example. I would say the first time I saw politics come into play was Mortal Kombat.  I remember the government getting involved on that one.
Nintendo had to edit the blood for the snes version, and the genesis you needed a code (ABACABB). Night trap was also one of those "bad" games. But really, stuff nowadays, if it had been released at that time period? I wonder what would happen...

[Baggins]

Nintendo didn't have to edit it, actually. Nintendo had a private policy to censor anything that might be considered questionable in the US. They edited quite a few games. This was a fault of the CEO of Nintendo America at the time if I remember correctly.

Bionic Commando for example lost the nazi symbols and storyline.

Other games they edited? Nudity got cut from a statue in Maniac Mansion, and similar statues in the Castlevania games! As did blood from the games.

However, thinking of politically/religously motivated groups making complaints? According to Roberta Williams, she had alot of criticism from church groups concerning King's Quest 3, and all the spell casting in the game!

(Posted on: July 23, 2011, 02:11:27 PM)

So I'm playing Deus Ex for the first time. Interesting SCI-FI conspiracy plot.

Oddly enough it seems so far to make out the far left/big government/neocons/United Nations/environmentalists/the US government/evil corporations/socialistic society (credit based cashless) are the bad guys, evil NWO. It also includes the Elite types regardless of party affiliation who belong to secret societies (who are in cahoots with each other intentionally sowing discord among the masses to keep them blind to the truth, manipulate and control them). Both establishment Republicans and Democrats are part of the grand conspiracy to divide the populations votes, remove freedoms, and control the masses. They are at first portrayed as the good guys trying to stop terrorist groups, including 'right wing extremists'. But it turns out they are part of a global conspiracy of population control, walled ghettos, FEMA concentration camps, etc, poisoning and spreading disease among the population, and medical 'death panels' an healthcare rationing (only the elite/important people get access to the best medicine). Throw in a few Soylent Green references as well. Also part of the anti-gun bans so they have better control of the population, and a Patriot Act analog, and TSA style security checks for travel.


The religious right, constitutionalists, conservatives,  antiestablishment liberals, NRA members, survivalists, and perhaps, libertarians, and anarchists as well, are represented in the form of the National Secessionist Forces. They at first treated as the bad guys, a evil terrorist organization, but turn out to out to be the good guys, trying to bring back liberty and freedom to a progressively authoritarian government. The organization includes a few red states such as Texas and more conservative parts of the country. Also on the side of good with ties to the NSF includes a California hacker community (these may be more liberal side of the organization), the Silhouettes (from France, a more peaceful and libertine group that works to release information exposing the evil world wide government), and the one of the Hong Kong Triads (Luminous Path) that helps smuggle supplies for the rebels for a price, and X-51 (former group of doctors and scientists from Area 51, who know of the corruption in the government).

It's probably the kind of plot that would drive Percifal to anger and insanity!  because some of the descriptions might fit the Tea Party, and many of the Republicans, if they turned violent! Minus any Herman Cain bigotry, but all the Sarah Palin anti-socialized Medicine rants! Though more unspecific and broadly unorganized Americans are lumped together under what the current administration call rightwing extremists (which would more or less probably lump all tea party and most Republicans as terrorists!);

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

As a counterpoint the Leftwing Extremists report is very specific and points out specific organizations oddly enough. Whereas the right wing report lumps all with all DINOs, moderate or conservative viewpoints as (or at least right of center) as terrorists or rightwing extremists (Overton Window style, kinda like Percival)! It would be just as crazy if the far right called anyone to the left of them (left, RINOs and moderates) all Leftwing Extremists and terrorists (many do, glad they aren't writing the reports). In both to point out your political opponent in such ways is showing extensive bias, an use of the Overton Window!

I was trying look into in the developers history, the producer Warren Specter is apparently an Alex Jones fan. He even put in a nod to that radio personality via a character named Alex Jacobson.
Specter apparently believes many of the things researched for the game are real, they apparently even got copies of many of the actual laws, executive orders, ect, that 'actually exist' as well as making references to other conspiracies believed to exist by many!

http://web.archive.org/web/20090228182429/http://popularsymbolism.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/deus-ex-the-making-of-article-from-edge-magazine/

This was a 1999/2000 game I think! Strangely enough it predicted 9/11 as the destruction of the World Trade Center was part of the backstory, having been destroyed by terrorists and one of the things lead to the formation of UNATCO.

Infact apparently when you get to the endings [spoiler]you have a chance of siding with three factions, one that brings freedom and liberty back but through a new Dark Age. Another in which the Illuminati come I to power, as a secret government but peace is maintained again, or finally one in which the main character merges with an AI to become a benevolent dictator ruling from a technocracy of body modification/mind control for the masses.[/spoiler]

Simply an example of an imaginative SCI-FI story? Or a form of propaganda?

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

Nintendo didn't have to edit it, actually. Nintendo had a private policy to censor anything that might be considered questionable in the US. They edited quite a few games. This was a fault of the CEO of Nintendo America at the time if I remember correctly.

Bionic Commando for example lost the nazi symbols and storyline.

Other games they edited? Nudity got cut from a statue in Maniac Mansion, and similar statues in the Castlevania games! As did blood from the games.

However, thinking of politically/religously motivated groups making complaints? According to Roberta Williams, she had alot of criticism from church groups concerning King's Quest 3, and all the spell casting in the game!

(Posted on: July 23, 2011, 02:11:27 PM)

So I'm playing Deus Ex for the first time. Interesting SCI-FI conspiracy plot.

Oddly enough it seems so far to make out the far left/big government/neocons/United Nations/environmentalists/the US government/socialistic society (credit based cashless) are the bad guys, evil NWO. It also includes the Elite types regardless of party affiliation who belong to secret societies (who are in cahoots with each other intentionally sowing discord among the masses to keep them blind to the truth, manipulate and control them). Both establishment Republicans and Democrats are part of the grand conspiracy to divide the populations votes, remove freedoms, and control the masses. They are at first portrayed as the good guys trying to stop terrorist groups, including 'right wing extremists'. But it turns out they are part of a global conspiracy of population control, walled ghettos, FEMA concentration camps, etc, poisoning and spreading disease among the population, and medical 'death panels' an healthcare rationing (only the elite/important people get access to the best medicine). Throw in a few Soylent Green references as well. Also part of the anti-gun bans so they have better control of the population, and a Patriot Act analog, and TSA style security checks for travel.


The religious right, constitutionalists, conservatives (but also some antiestablishment liberals), NRA members, survivalists are represented in the form of the National Secessionist Forces. They at first treated as the bad guys, a evil terrorist organization, but turn out to out to be the good guys, trying to bring back liberty and freedom to a progressively authoritarian government. The organization includes a few red states such as Texas and more conservative parts of the country. Also on the side of good with ties to the NSF includes a California hacker community, the Silhouettes (a more peaceful and libertine group that works to release information exposing the evil world wide government), and the one of the Hong Kong Triads (Luminous Path) that helps smuggle supplies for the rebels for a price.

It's probably the kind of plot that would drive Percifal to anger and insanity!  because some of the descriptions might fit the Tea Party, and many of the Republicans, if they turned violent! Minus any Herman Cain bigotry, but all the Sarah Palin anti-socialized Medicine rants! Though more unspecific and broadly unorganized Americans are lumped together under what the current administration call rightwing extremists (which would more or less probably lump all tea party and most Republicans as terrorists!);

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

As a counterpoint the Leftwing Extremists report is very specific and points out specific organizations oddly enough. Whereas the right wing report lumps all with all DINOs, moderate or conservative viewpoints as (or at least right of center) as terrorists or rightwing extremists (Overton Window style, kinda like Percival)! It would be just as crazy if the far right called anyone to the left of them (left, RINOs and moderates) all Leftwing Extremists and terrorists (many do, glad they aren't writing the reports). In both to point out your political opponent in such ways is showing extensive bias, an use of the Overton Window!

I was trying look into in the developers history, the producer Warren Specter is apparently an Alex Jones fan. He even put in a nod to that radio personality via a character named Alex Jacobson.
Specter apparently believes many of the things researched for the game are real, they apparently even got copies of many of the actual laws, executive orders, ect, that 'actually exist' as well as making references to other conspiracies believed to exist by many!

http://web.archive.org/web/20090228182429/http://popularsymbolism.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/deus-ex-the-making-of-article-from-edge-magazine/

This was a 1999/2000 game I think! Strangely enough it predicted 9/11 as the destruction of the World Trade Center was part of the backstory, having been destroyed by terrorists and one of the things lead to the formation of UNATCO.

Infact apparently when you get to the endings [spoiler]you have a chance of siding with three factions, one that brings freedom and liberty back but through a new Dark Age. Another in which the Illuminati come I to power, as a secret government but peace is maintained again, or finally one in which the main character merges with an AI to become a benevolent dictator ruling from a technocracy of body modification for the masses.[/spoiler]

Simply an example of an imaginative SCI-FI story? Or a form of propaganda?

We get it, Beckian. The left wing is evil, get rid of every regulation and the social safety net, return to 1910. We get it, my corporatist friend.

[Baggins]

I apparently called it, describing the plot of Deus Ex would drive Percival to, 'anger and driven to bouts insanity?'. 

Beckian? The religious zealot? I believe I established in a previous post that his theocratic mantra is dangerous.

I'm a poor lowly academic, living off the Government teat! There are no corporations for me! Unless I can somehow convince one to give me scholarship fund. Hell, the far right wants to get rid of my kind! I'm somehow 'brainwashing' the masses! I'm also a strong supporter of Teddy Roosevelt's National Park Service, which many on the Far Right or the Blue Dogs would like to get rid so they can, 'mine/drill' etc. This I do not support, as I actually do like the park service, and enjoy their educational and historical merit! Rangers, and especially government archaeologists are some of the great government jobs out there! Offering a truly great and noticeable return on the tax payer's money (at least I take the time to enjoy their free lectures and interpretive comments)!

But seriously, I think there is something wrong with you! You have a boogeyman complex! You attack anyone who may 'disagree' with you! ...or you may somehow disagree with! You are apparently paranoid! As paranoid as any far right winger (generally the far left are as paranoid as the far right)!

Who said anything about going back to before 1910? You are chasing windmills!

However Percifal, don't I know you as someone else on this forum (didn't I make you one of the administraters of the Sierra wiki)? Why do you hate capitalism so much? Didn't you like Sierra when it was successful company? Do you think video game companies would make games, if everything was turned to full-blow socialism? Would there been redistribution of games to the masses? Do you think all video game companies should redistribute games for free?

Will POS give away their next game for free? Have you been spoiled?

You do realize most democrats are capitalists, although they many complain about capitalism? They have huge money making businesses! Michael Moore for example makes alot of money selling his movies (and there is a niche that pay to watch his movies, he doesn't just show them for free). Are these people willing to redistribute their wealth first? Why is it that there are as many politicians on their side of the aisle getting caught skipping out on paying IRS their fair dues (while demanding the right to pay more)? I don't like hypocrites on either side of the aisle! Everyone should be taxed fairly, and pay said taxes. I'm against tax exemptions and tax returns as well (except for maybe filing mistakes). Everyone should be treated the same when taxed.

[wilco64256]

I've actually very thoroughly enjoyed the Deus Ex games.  I enjoyed the variety in approaches that could be taken to completing the various missions and both the political backstory that described the world leading up to the events of those games and the choices the player could make to affect future events.  The new one takes place earlier than the other two but has additional fascinating political work going on.

[Baggins]

Wilco, I shall pick up Deus Ex 3 sometime when the price drops (and after I complete the other two). It looks like alot of fun. I think its up there with Bioshock with the style of fun, political commentary and such!

I especially enjoyed the critical analys in Bioshock of Randian economics/capitalism and individualism, and how even entrepreneurial spirit could be corrupted! The Walt Disney-esque Andrew Ryan turned into an evil authoritorian leader (with no heart, no charity for the poor, making the little people work too hard)! Capitalistic evil men willing to even use little girls to make a profit. Forcing prisoners, malcontents and hobos into drooling zombie Big Daddies, with no will.

But the sequel even portrayed negative aspects that can arise out of the opposing socialist/collectivist viewpoint as well, with Sofia Lamb's society willing to kill those who do not conform to the will of the society, or kill members for the betterment of the rest of the society! "sacrifice'. They too were willing to use the girls, but out of a sense of 'common good', but it was still evil.

It showed that things are not black and white!

Speaking of conspiracy theory games, even the Assassin's Creed touch upon a little bit of conspiratorial political commentary. But mainly in the Subject 16 hidden messages! It doesn't nearly go into it as deep as the Deus Ex games. Deus Ex nearly hits you over the head with it!

[glottal]

Why do you hate capitalism so much?

Ummm, I missed the part where Percival said that he hates capitalism.  He seems to mostly be a strong supporter of New Deal legislation, which was capitalist legislation (if you want to find a socialist program in the United States, look at the Veterans Administration health care system - Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are all capitalist).

EDIT: I now realise that you, Baggins, might be saying this tongue in cheek ...

[Baggins]

Yep it's largely tongue in cheek (he did call me a 'corporatist'), although it's a poke at the Communist Party USA and the few people in the media/politics who say we should eliminate the capitalist system (like Michael Moore)! Those types have been coming out of the woodwork recently!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjljgI5YzvU&feature=player_embedded

They'd fit right in if they switched communism, for 'alcoholic', . They sound like they are at an AA meeting!

I like most of the new deal stuff. Some of it needs to be reformed (there is alot of corruption in the system by all sides), but I don't believe any of it needs to be eliminated.