Author Topic: US riots?  (Read 8251 times)

Offline Damar

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 08:34:28 PM »
Ultimately, though, that's what the research shows about mob mentality.  The psychology of human decision making is actually pretty depressing.  If you remove personal accountability, people are capable of some nasty things.  The classic example of this is the Milgram experiment.  People were told that they were taking part in the testing of a new learning experiment and would give electric shocks to another participant in another room that they could hear over a speaker.  If the person answered wrong, they'd get a shock.  What they didn't know was that person was a confederate in the experiment.  After a few shocks the confederate would start yelling that he had a heart condition.  After a few more shocks he'd be screaming in pain.  For the last part of the experiment there would be nothing but silence.  He wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't respond when zapped.  It was like he was dead in the other room.  The person running the experiment would put no pressure on the person giving the shocks.  The only thing they would say was "you must continue."  A majority of people in the experiment saw it through to the end, delivering shocks to a silent confederate.  In their mind, they weren't the ones who were responsible, it was the person running the experiment who was making them zap the poor guy.  They were just following orders.

The Stanford prison experiment showed how power corrupted students and how being oppressed led to adversarial and aggressive behaviors.  Ultimately the experiment had to be shut down.

Group think is a well documented effect where people will polarize when they're in a group of people who agree with them.  Let's say I don't agree politically with Obama.  I might be able to articulate what I believe and I may even agree with him on some things.  But if I then go to a Tea Party rally, suddenly any middle ground I share with the president is going to vanish and I'll start agreeing with people who are shouting that they want to see the birth certificate (the real one this time!)

Everything that's been done to study human behavior and psychology points to us acting in a completely different way when we remove personal accountability.  Because where there's no accountability there's no consequences.  Heck, for another illustration look no further than addicts.  True, a number of addicts may be self medicating for mental health concerns, but a good number just have a straight up addiction.  Someone might start with a strong sense of morality, but once you focus only on that instant gratification and the need for the next hit, people start doing things they never thought they would do before.  Stealing from friends or family, breaking the law, lying all the time.  Personal accountability no longer enters into the equation and the person will act accordingly.

You take all these ideas and add in the fact that people become faceless in the crowd and you get a mob mentality.  It's uncomfortable to think that we're capable of this, but we are.  From the kid who makes fun of their less popular friend because it's what the cool kids are doing to someone pulling down the goal posts at the end of a football game, people give themselves over to the group mentality.

Offline Baggins

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2011, 08:30:12 AM »
Hmm, this is more of a lone wolf issue... But I surely hope its not the direction we are going.

http://www.wtol.com/story/15273318/lambertville-vandalism-turns-life-threatening

Basically, a union member targeted a non-union small business owner, vandalized his car, "scab", and then shot owner. Mind you, despite being non-union he still payed good wages, and offered full benefits (he just happened to avoid the overhead/middle-man costs of paying dues to the Union itself). So best I can tell it doesn't sound like he was taking advantage of his workers, and actually cares for them.

Like the report says, depending on how you feel about union/non-union issue their was no reason things should have gone this far.

(Posted on: August 17, 2011, 10:50:59 PM)


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/18/flashmobs.police/index.html
HMM.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2011, 10:02:53 AM »
This is a case of the media mislabeling these incidents.  These are NOT flash mobs - they are social media organized, yes, but Flash Mobs are NOT VIOLENT or DESTRUCTIVE.


Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

Offline Baggins

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2011, 11:00:01 AM »
Languages evolve, in the end because media and politicians use the term "flash mob" or "flash rob" in this way, it will become one of the definitions for 'flash mob'. It may not have started out that way, but it will be the case when its all over. It's the history of linguistics... Historically media 'propaganda', has changed language, and this will be no exception.

Take for example the terms 'liberal' and 'conservatives'. They don't quite mean the same thing they did 200 years ago either! A 'classic liberal' is very different than a modern liberal, etc.

Even the term 'radical' has changed over time. The opposite of 'radical' was once 'reactionary'. But now it can apply to both ends of the spectrum.

Hell, even the word 'mob' originally had negative connotations, meaning 'groups coming together for riots and destruction', the lower class/rabble, or gang/criminals. Whereas you are trying to apply 'positive' connotations to the word. Thus an 'evolution' of linguistical use! ...or an oxymoronic evolution of the term 'mob'!

Quote
1mob
 noun \ˈmäb\

1

: a large or disorderly crowd; especially: one bent on riotous or destructive action


2

: the lower classes of a community : masses, rabble


3

chiefly Australian: a flock, drove, or herd of animals


4

: a criminal set : gang; especiallyoften capitalized: mafia 1


5

chiefly British: a group of people : crowd

There is an associated term, "smart mob" which is actually slightly oxymoronic, since mob is usually defined as "mindless"!

Even webster's dictionary neither applies positive or negative traits to a 'flash mob'.

Quote
Flash Mob
:a group of people summoned (as by e-mail or text message) to a designated location at a specified time to perform an indicated action before dispersing

The word 'flash' itself, originates from 'quick' coming together quickly. It was neither a 'positive or negative' term.

Crowds vs. Mobs vs. Riots, a mob generally has negative connotations, and a crowd is neutral. A crowd can turn into a mob. Mobs generally are specified by 'shared emotion or thought' (these aren't always violent or negative, and maybe include a sense of 'fun'). Mobs can turn into riots.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 11:32:36 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2011, 11:37:42 AM »
Nope.  Cite all the references you want.  To call a violent mob a "flash mob" is lazy linguistics and journalism.  I'm sure the creators of the phenomenon would hate to have their invention that was created to inspire fun and wonder used to identify acts of violence.


Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

Offline Baggins

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2011, 12:35:15 PM »
Flash mob had a different definition back in the 1800's;


The image itself is actually modern, mimicing earlier style, but refers back to an earlier use of the term apparently

http://boingboing.net/2006/07/09/use-of-term-flash-mo.html
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 02:28:52 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 12:53:27 PM »
Flash mob had a different definition back in the 1800's;



What are they doing? o_O
Freudian Slip - "When you say one thing, but mean your mother."

Offline Baggins

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2011, 02:40:08 PM »
It's a drawing of a women's prison in Tasmania, they are flashing the guards/magistrate in protest as far as I know.

http://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/

This is hilarious, well actually its sobering (how a peaceful flash mob could turn into a violent riot);
http://boingboing.net/2010/12/04/fictional-story-of-a.html

His prediction is pretty spot on.

(Posted on: August 20, 2011, 04:05:36 PM)


So interesting a rapper named Machine Gun Kelly got arrested for trying to start a 'flash mob'.

http://twitter.com/#!/MACHINEGUNKELLY
Doesn't look like he did anything 'violent'. But they got him for disorderly conduct.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/21/machine-gun-kelly-arrested_n_932390.html

http://ca.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idCATRE77K1WQ20110821

Seems like the police are a bit wary, after those other 'flash mobs'/robs.

Actually it looks like 'flash mobs' even the non-violent ones aren't always liked by the police when they disrupt public places;

http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/601862/jefferson_memorial__flash_mob_arrested_for_dancing,_protesting_court_ruling_(video)/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/tweet-by-rapper-the-game-spawns-hundreds-of-calls-to-compton-sheriffs-station.html
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 08:40:45 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2011, 03:51:08 PM »
Again, the media being misleading and stirring up controversy in order to increase readership. If you read the article, the guy was arrested for standing on a table at a mall, and refusing to get down when the police asked him to.

Again, total mis-use of the phrase.


Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

Offline Baggins

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Re: US riots?
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2011, 08:39:09 PM »
Actually it was the Rapper who called it that on his twitter account. He was trying to call all his fans together to a "flash mob" dance off or some such. I actually put the link up above.

Quote

@machinegunkellyMachine Gun Kelly


ok so lets do a flashmob then, f*** it! yall wanna do one at somewhere out the way, like Mentor mall in the foodcourt? but what should we DO

Quote

@machinegunkellyMachine Gun Kelly


looks like Strongsville won. So Flashmob tomorrow at SouthPark Mall in Strongsvill at 5pm. everyone wear a funny disguise.

Quote

@machinegunkellyMachine Gun Kelly


yes! a flash mob crowd surf! lets do it tomorrow at Mentor mall, what time yall think? and how should we start it? a slow clap?

Quote
@machinegunkellyMachine Gun Kelly


Today we flash mob NO MATTER WHAT! 5pm at SouthPark mall in the foodcourt, wear disguises, dont move to you hear 'Cleveland' play then RAGE!

Quote
machinegunkellyMachine Gun Kelly

If we get arrested for attempting a flash mob, just know we did it like #powerRAGERS. Costume swag!! #LTFU http://t.co/9O07Lrg

Cleveland actually has been trying to pass an anti 'flash mob' ban law. So apparently he knew he probably would be arrested (see last twitter message that occured just before his 'flashmob').

In other words he defied Cleveland law enforcement for basically a publicity stunt! He got the reaction he wanted.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 08:55:21 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg