The What Are You Doing Thread #8

[GrahamRocks!]

Well. I sent him two more PMs. I broke my word. I said in the first message that I was trying not to get angry, yet look what I did.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

If I may continue my thoughts from my last PM...
 
4. The fact that you put a HUGE bout of spirituality in your stories CONSTANTLY is starting to bug me. Most especially in fandoms like King's Quest, where it's already been established in the official lore and games that Christianity exists- The Monastery of the Blessed Wilbury in Kolyma and the church in Daventry. You don't really need to mention it in that fandom because it's already right there! And then there's ones like Quest For Glory where religion isn't established very much at all, aside from mentions of the Greek Gods in Dragon Fire and you shoehorning in the Chief Thief of Spielburg talking about Christmas and baby Jesus feels really tacked on.

I think you should try to either tone it down immensely and not make it the focus of every single story, OR what I think could be the better option: make it fit into the world better.

Take for example, my Quest For Glory fanfic series. My rewritten versions I plan to write out (right now I'm just worldbuilding) sometime soon and post on here? They involve my three main characters- Marcus, Finn and Rico -and all three are followers of the Norse Gods. Yes, I am a Christian as well as you, yet I'm writing three characters who are "pagans". Blasphemous, I know! But you know why I'm writing in the Norse Gods? Because, 1. Spielburg and it's surrounding areas (particularly my characters's hometown of Willowsby) are clearly very Germanic in nature, which is where the Aesir and Vanir would reside. And 2. Despite what you might think, there ARE mentions of various Gods from other mythologies- Iblis from game 2? That's the Islamic name for the Devil. Sehkmet and Anubis from game 3? That's a Goddess and a God respectfully from Egyptian mythology. There's mentions of a couple of the Greek Gods in game 5, mainly Tyche (Goddess of good fortune), Hera (Goddess of marriage), and IIRC Apollo (or at the very least, that's his symbol on the Sigil of Destiny in the Rite of Destiny). And of course, the afterlife mentioned in Dragon Fire is from Greek mythology as well- King Justinian went to the Elysian Fields according to the notice board and you go down into Hades as part of the Rites of Rulership specifically the Rite of Courage. You wanna why this works so well? BECAUSE THEY DON'T DWELL ON IT AND THEY MAKE IT FIT INTO THE WORLD! You however, make a point to shoehorn it in and it's just... really bad writing.
 
Going back to my own series. I have my three main characters follow the Norse Gods because it fits where they're from- if they were from somewhere else, they probably would follow their Gods, or even- heaven forbid! -they might be athiests for all it matters. You know what I did with the Norse Gods in my series? I made them fit into my worldbuilding and have it make sense. Marcus's distant ancestor, Markus Donnelly? He's actually a demigod- the son of Forseti, Norse God of Justice and an ordinary human girl! Forseti, in case you're curious, is actually the son of Baldur and Nanna in Norse Mythology and Baldur is the son of Odin, thusly connecting this family to the Gods themselves! and I make the fact that there are multiple Gods in Gloriana make sense. In a time long ago, in our world, there was a Heavenly War between all the Gods (including of course the Christian God) which sadly ended up killing off all of humanity. It was decided that the Gods of Myth should leave our world and a new universe would be created where they could live safely. God remade our world and the others made the vow that, while they could interact with eachother, they must NEVER fight like this again. Our God of course, being all awesome, has the power to travel between dmensions and thusly his presence is there in my version of Gloriana as well. All the Gods from various mythologies and all their afterlives exist in my version of Gloriana.
 
In fact, two other characters I have in my stories- Gale and his son John -are Christian themselves. But do they judge people who aren't of their religion (for example, Gale's adopted family is actually Rico's family whom are pagans)? Do they get overly preachy? Do they try to tear them down and accuse them of things they wouldn't do just because they don't have the same beliefs? NO! They don't! they accept and love their family all the same, even if they sometimes don't agree. After all, it is not man's place to judge in the end, but God's. Although, the fact that the other Gods actually exist (heck Jason Donnelly, Marcus's son, has met a few of them himself!) helps in this matter. Gale's adopted family is wise to do the same.

Let's look at a story from you. A Thief's Duty on Holiday. First of all, if the Chief Thief is Christian, I don't think he'd be a Thief! after all, one of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not steal" and thusly he'd be sinning greatly. now, going back to my character Gale. He himself is a Thief living out in the streets of Silmaria when Rico meets him. Now, I know what you're gonna say, "Hypocrite!" but here's the thing: Gale isn't doing it because he wants to. He's doing it out of desperation and trying to survive since, well, he's an orphan! And you know what? He feels AWFUL about his thefts even though they're the only thing (other than Faith) keeping him alive! He KNOWS he's doing wrong, and every night he prays to God for forgiveness because he knows he's living a sinful life but has nowhere to go. Later on in life, he becomes Robin Hood and now, while technically he's still sinning, he's doing it not for his own selfish gain but to give others help and a little happiness in their lives. He walks a fine line between shadows and light as Robin Hood, but is honestly a good person who acknowledges he is a flawed human being.
 
Second of all, why did you have them steal their Christmas presents?! This isn't The Grinch where it was all just material possessions that are easily replaced. Spielburg is a small valley town, her people work all day and they probably saved up all their money to buy stuff for their familes- stuff that they might have ACTUALLY NEEDED to get through the next year lest they starve or worse! -Spielburg isn't Whoville, it's NOT a wealthy town and people NEEDED those presents to live. Okay. Maybe you were intending to have the Thieves bring back the presents... but that's never said in the story, nor was it continued so I honestly don't know. It just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to know that they could do such a horrible thing.
 
The Incorruptable One. That and the Thanksgiving story bothered me on this point too. You haven't played 8, have you? The Realm of The Sun IS NOT Heaven, dude! This leads me to..
 
5. You don't do your research. At all. In rereading several of your Sierra stories, I've noticed this several times-
 
Shot By The Love Darts- Edgar. Full stop. You have CLEARLY not played KQ7 at all. Know how i can tell? Because, despite your mention of Malicia, you still have Lolotte be Edgar's mother, even though if you played 7, you would know that they retconned Edgar's origins so that Lolotte kidnapped him as a baby and raised him as her own (I personally don't mind this retcon as it gives us a nice parallel to Alexander) until Rosella came by with Genesta restoring his true form.
 
Several of your Space Quest stories- You haven't played Space Quest 5. The adventures you write involving the Eureka cannot happen. why? Because that's Roger's ship in 5 and it gets BLOWN UP at the end of the game! The way you write Roger's crew in your stories is also inaccurate because if you'd actually played 5, you would know that the crew hates Roger AT FIRST but they grow to like and respect him as their captain by the end and Roger in 5 also gets CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT from all this which I thought was great! Also, it's clear you haven't played 3 either, because that big Belcher Roger ordered in one story? He's perfectly fine after having it. Even though, what happens in 3? He gets sick from it!

Continuing on and elaborating since I ran out of room.
-
The Incorruptable One. That and the Thanksgiving story bothered me on this point too. Especially The Incorruptable One. Question: I know Rosella is not your average sweetness and sunshine Princess and has a rebellious streak... but why pick HER to be converted to Christianty? You know whom I think could be better for a plot point like this?

Alexander of Daventry. Think about it. He was raised by an evil wizard who kept a very close eye on him. I highly doubt Manannan went to church on Sundays because that would take him away from Gwydion, and there wasn't a lot of light in his life until Alexander went home. Having him find Jesus would work far better, because it could give him hope that *someone* cares about him and that he'll go to a good place when his time comes. Rosella, on the other hand, doesn't fit this very well since she was raised in a loving if a tad sheltered environment and has had a slightly better life.

You haven't played 8, have you? The Realm of The Sun IS NOT Heaven, dude!

This leads me to..
 
5. You don't do your research. At all. In rereading several of your Sierra stories, I've noticed this several times-
 
Shot By The Love Darts- Edgar. Full stop. You have CLEARLY not played KQ7 at all. Know how i can tell? Because, despite your mention of Malicia, you still have Lolotte be Edgar's mother, even though if you played 7, you would know that they retconned Edgar's origins so that Lolotte kidnapped him as a baby and raised him as her own (I personally don't mind this retcon as it gives us a nice parallel to Alexander) until Rosella came by with Genesta restoring his true form. In KQ7, as you should know, he's the flipping Prince of Etheria! Why is he helping rule Tamir?!
 
Several of your Space Quest stories- You haven't played Space Quest 5. The adventures you write involving the Eureka cannot happen. why? Because that's Roger's ship in 5 and it gets BLOWN UP at the end of the game! The way you write Roger's crew in your stories is also inaccurate because if you'd actually played 5, you would know that the crew hates Roger AT FIRST but they grow to like and respect him as their captain by the end and Roger in 5 also gets CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT from all this which I thought was great! Also, it's clear you haven't played 3 either, because that big Belcher Roger ordered in one story? He's perfectly fine after having it. Even though, what happens in 3? He gets sick from it!

Thanks For The Chosen One- Yes, Balin. The Kingdom of Daventry's Thanksgiving is going to be EXACTLY like ours! I don't think royalty would be having rolls, breadsticks and a turkey at their table. Know what they should be eating? Roast meat like a boar or lamb or SOMETHING. Because that's something you could probably actually find in Daventry!

The Incorruptable One- Again, The Realm of The Sun is NOT Heaven! It's where the Mask of Eternity is kept by the Archons, not the place where Christians go when they die!

Now, compare that to my stories. When I started my Quest for Glory series, I had never picked up the games. but still I researched all that I could from various Let's Plays, Wikis, the Omnipedia enc to make sure that i got my stuff down and the characterization right. For example, I actually looked up the prices of the magic spells in Zara's shop in both the original version of QFG1 and the remake.

I researched Norse Mythology as well, particularly the stories of Odin and the Runes which is involved in my backstory and Ragnarok.

I have another question, Balin. Do you have a beta or proofreader at hand when you write? Because if you don't, why not? Everyone should, no matter what quality of writer they are. that way, you can know what your strengths and weaknesses are in your writings. Like me for instance, my strengths are dramatics and heartwrenching scenes- I can make you cry! A friend of mine says that I'm not as bad as George R. Martin, but I'm pretty darn close due to me always making my characters suffer.

Balin... listen to me, okay? I send you these PMs not to bash you. I send them to you to help you become a better writer. You have great ideas, but you need to get better at writing before I will have any sort of respect for you as a fellow author. I just want you to reply, okay? Say SOMETHING to me!

*sigh* You don't even care, do you? You're still gonna write stuff and never take my advice. Because you don't listen.

But, at the very least, even if you don't care to improve, then please, PLEASE reply to my messages and say, "I don't want to take advice from you! I think my stories are fine just the way they are!" and just tell me that.

Please... answer me.

Sure enough... he did. I feel very guilty now. I'm just frustrated with this guy.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

Subject: No more PMs

Do me a favor, Manegirl. Please don't send me any more private messages, okay? I know my way of writing is far from perfect, but you have your style, and I have mine. I don't need constant anger and criticism from anybody. If you don't like any of the stories I write, don't read them, and don't keep making scathing remarks about them, either. Although I like the occasional compliment from other people on my fan fictions, as well as a little criticism, I write mainly for my own private amusement, like J.R.R. Tolkien once said he did, so please stop making me feel like the worst fanfic author ever to write on http://www.fanfiction.net, thank you very much.

Yours etc.
Balin

[snabbott]

He does have a point...

[Numbers]

GrahamRocks, what the hell was all that about? That's like something I would write! I'm so appalled...and so proud!...*sniffle* Angry people grow up so fast...

Did he seriously compare himself to J.R.R. Tolkien, though? You should write back:
"Shut up, Balin! Gimli found you dead in a tomb!"

That definitely won't elicit an eyerolling reaction from him or anything.

[GrahamRocks!]

GrahamRocks, what the hell was all that about? That's like something I would write! I'm so appalled...and so proud!...*sniffle* Angry people grow up so fast...

Wow, I did something good in your eyes. Awesome!

As for him... you wanna know why I just went out on him like that? Because, on Fanfiction.Net, there are sections for King's Quest, Police Quest, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, and Manhunter,Blue Force (which actually doesn't look like too bad a game to me). And he is very prominent in ALL of those! Seriously, this guy has a thing for cops apparently, or at the very least is a HUGE PQ fan!

https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Police-Quest/

and he's just... not very good at writing. He tells me he has his own style, but writing about NOTHING isn't a style. There's hardly any sort of plot or point to his stories, and i really have no reason to care about the characters he writes because he has no tension. He has some good ideas, but they aren't executed well as he always tells us instead of showing us.

I'm a Christian, but even I don't want my religion tacked onto a story when it doesn't belong. If he really insists on putting it into his story, make it fit into the world you're sticking it in.

https://www.fanfiction.net/game/King-s-Quest/

https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Leisure-Suit-Larry/ he warns about sexual content in a few of these. In Leisure Suit Larry. Y'know, the Sierra game that's ALL ABOUT THAT?

https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Manhunter/

https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Space-Quest/

The Sierra fandom, fanfic wise anyway, is not very big. But all that I've found- To Die At Dawn, Quest Cross, More Than You Think, Desperately Seeking Alexander, Burn Xenon Burn, The Middle of The Night, Sweet Dreams, A Hero's visit Home, Outlaw enc- have all been good stories. His are just not. And it makes me sad whenever I see his stuff on those sections, because I know he'll never change his writing habits.

That first PM I sent was was because I believed he could become better as a writer. I want to be EXCITED when I see a new story by him, not groan and think "Okay, how bad is this one gonna be?"

The last two I sent him was because I got angry at him. He didn't take my advice at all. He never changed anything. He rehashes scenes from the games and movies he watches, and he thinks they're fine. What I and I think most people would think is that they're boring. I didn't want that.

J. R. R. Tolkien might have written stuff for his own amusement, but his stuff is actually good regardless because he knows how to write a decent plot. If he really wants to write for his own amusement, then don't post it on Fanfiction.Net. Otherwise, you'll get people reading it, reviewing it, giving critique like I am.

I got angry because he didn't listen. He basically told me in that response that, "I don't want to be better as a writer. I think I'm fine." That's horrible for an author to say, because you can never stop learning how to be better and improving. But this man insists on staying in that rut and never getting out.

[Numbers]

Well, it is possible to make a story out of basically nothing. Arguably, The Big Lebowski is completely devoid of any sort of meaningful plot, yet it's considered a classic because the writing was good. Hell, even Napoleon Dynamite has its fans, not because of the story--because there wasn't one--but because the writing and delivery were amusing to at least some of its viewers.

I haven't clicked on any of the links provided, so I don't know exactly how he writes, but going off of what you're saying, his stories don't have plot in addition to being poorly written. Unfortunately, there will always be books (Twilight) or, dare I say it, "fanfiction stories" (50 Shades of Grey) out there that are far more popular than they deserve to be, and you just kind of have to accept that.

Come to think of it, Mein Kampf has had a sudden increase in popularity lately. I'm really not sure why. The book is, by most standards, rambling and plodding, with taboo content (some versions have a big ol' swastika on the front cover), and goes on for way too many pages; people have known this for years, so why the sudden interest now? Doesn't have anything to do with what we were just talking about, really, I just was thinking about bad popular books when that sprang to mind.

[raVen image]

Well, it is possible to make a story out of basically nothing.

Only if you follow the narrative structure--creating a beginning, middle and end.    Without these, you do not have a story.   All you can have is a plot without a story.   "Big Lebowski" or "Seinfeld" may seem like "stories about nothing" but only to the untrained eye.  In fact, these posses full stories because they can be broken down into 3 acts, with each serving the narrative structure demanded by each act.  They begin with inroductions and set-ups.  They continue with confrontation and conflict.  And they end with a definiticve climax and denouement.   Each act is separated by a major plot point.   They are fully realised stroies.

 But if you ignore the narrative structure, you cannot have a "story" in the technical sense.  Just look at "Moebius."

[Numbers]

Yeah, I've been hearing not-so-good things about Moebius.

[GrahamRocks!]

Really? Aside from him *points to raVen*, I haven't seen anyone not like it.

[Numbers]

From the Moebius Wikipedia page:

"Moebius: Empire Rising has received mixed reviews, with a Metacritic score of 54/100."

Where I come from, a 54% score is a failing grade.

[snabbott]

From the Moebius Wikipedia page:

"Moebius: Empire Rising has received mixed reviews, with a Metacritic score of 54/100."

Where I come from, a 54% score is a failing grade.

According to Metacritic, it's mixed/average.

http://www.metacritic.com/about-metascores

[Numbers]

That still leaves us with the fact that it wasn't positively received overall, at least not as much as GrahamRocks seems to think. Still, I doubt it's as bad as raVen image has been saying.

Seriously, comparing Jane Jensen's writing to Tommy Wiseau's? Not cool, bro.

[koko_99_2001]

-holding the Little One
-watching the time to get him ready for bed
-ready to play some WoW

[Numbers]

World of Warcraft still exists? I'd forgotten about it.

[GrahamRocks!]

- Downloading games on Steam, one of them being Heroine's Quest: The Herald of Ragnarok! It shall be a bittersweet experience. Sweet because, judging from Paw's stream I watched the other day, I'm going to like it! Bitter because I know something about the games production that will hamper my spirits quite a bit.

- About to eat lunch.

- Writing stuff in PlainText on iPad. I love this thing!

[snabbott]

I didn't realize Karen Soroe was involved in Heroine's Quest.

For those who don't know, she was on the TSL team, and she died maybe a year and a half ago. She was also involved with a KQ4 remake.

[Numbers]

Oh no, the "print screen" button on my laptop fell off! Anything but the least-used button on my entire keyboard!

[GrahamRocks!]

- Waiting for Orion to FB message me back on what I just said.

- Booting up Wizard101.

- I have a question, it's for one of my fanfic stories. Long story short, one of the chapters involved the Royal Family of Daventry talking to Katie and Cezar about TSL. What year should it be? 2002, the year TSL was first being envisioned? Or 2004, the year POS was founded?

- Wondering if I should post that story here or not. I mean, you guys let me post my QFG fic on here, which has nothing to do with KQ. So I'm assuming I'm allowed to post another story, especially since "Meet Your Maker!" involves every game in the Sierra "canon' (everything before Chainsaw Monday, not counting fangames).

[Numbers]

- Shaking my head at the Cognition TV Tropes entries that were obviously written by GrahamRocks...

[GrahamRocks!]

Hey, someone noticed! My handle there is Angelwing.

[Numbers]

I was mostly referring to the YMMV page, where it says something to the effect of "You can tell Cognition is going to be a much different game from The Silver Lining!"

Why are you automatically assuming that people who play Cognition have already played TSL? The two games have pretty different fanbases if you ask me.