The Dark Knight Rises

[Haids1987]

No spoilers in this particular post, just gushing.

First off, I've got to mention those people who were killed in the Colorado shooting at the midnight screening of The Dark Knight. The tragedy is unbearable and horrifying, and I've been praying for their families every spare thought. May the survivors and families find peace in the wake of this horrible event.

That said, I just returned from seeing this movie and I am completely speechless. I absolutely loved it! The storyline, the characters, the costumes (Anne Hathaway as Catwoman = instant girl crush!)--it was everything I had hoped for in the next installment of the Batman series. I was so moved that I was literally sobbing while watching it. I simply loved it!

How'd you guys feel?

[Fierce Deity]

I too have to mention how sorrowful I was to hear the news about Aurora's terrorist attack. It's affected me greatly. I was actually scared to even go to the movies, but I figured I've been lucky to live as long as I have, and I hoped that that luck hadn't run out. So I went to go see The Dark Knight Rises yesterday.

It was a great movie. I think it fulfilled all of the expectations that I had for the movie. Bane isn't really one of the more prominent villains in the Batman universe, but I feel Christopher Nolan did a great job to introduce his character to this trilogy. Also, the way Rises connected with the rest of the movies was a fitting element to its closure.

[spoiler]I was actually taken aback by all of the statements in the movie that said that Bane was Ra's al Ghul's son. I kept thinking to myself, "Ra's al Ghul doesn't have a son, he has a daughter." Then just when I thought Nolan had ruined his script, Talia was introduced as Ra's al Ghul's offspring. The way it was meant to be.[/spoiler]

So I have to say that this movie does a great job at concluding the trilogy, but it also makes me want more from Nolan's Batman universe. I'm kind of burnt out from all of the Avenger (Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America) movies, so this movie was a welcoming retreat from the normal superhero movie.

[Bludshot]

Fun movie, and it ended the trilogy reasonably well.  The first half is really strong.


[spoiler]Although I thought the movie would've been better if it wasn't another League of Shadows scuffle.  The movie had a chance to make Bane a more interesting character, while still highlighting his strengths (breaking the Bat, which was a fantastic fight).  But instead of making him more than just a meathead, the movie does a villian bait and switch with Talia, with Bane just being her protector...a meathead.  Plus we've already done the Ra's al Ghul plotline, did we really need another one?[/spoiler]

Anne Hathaway rocked in this movie by the way.  I never really liked Catwoman that much, this version however was great.

[Fierce Deity]

[spoiler]Although I thought the movie would've been better if it wasn't another League of Shadows scuffle.  The movie had a chance to make Bane a more interesting character, while still highlighting his strengths (breaking the Bat, which was a fantastic fight).  But instead of making him more than just a meathead, the movie does a villian bait and switch with Talia, with Bane just being her protector...a meathead.  Plus we've already done the Ra's al Ghul plotline, did we really need another one?[/spoiler]

I felt like Nolan would have taken the story in a different direction if Heath Ledger hadn't passed away. But because of the circumstances, he had to build off of something, and Batman Begins had a story that didn't really conclude its own story as well as The Dark Knight did. So Rises did what it had to do, while introducing some of its own original plot points.
[spoiler]Like John Blake being Robin and holding up Batman's legacy, and Selina Kyle getting together with Bruce while both of them give up their lives of crime and crime-fighting.[/spoiler]

But I do think the plot would have been altered slightly if Heath Ledger were still alive.

[Bludshot]

Yeah me and my friends came to the same conclusion concerning Ledger. 

[spoiler]Still, I think Bane could've carried the movie on his own, without pushing Tali in the spotlight at the last minute.[/spoiler]

[Fierce Deity]

Yeah me and my friends came to the same conclusion concerning Ledger. 

[spoiler]Still, I think Bane could've carried the movie on his own, without pushing Tali in the spotlight at the last minute.[/spoiler]

Agreed. It was a hell of a twist though. Like I said in my original post, I kept telling myself what I know despite what the characters were telling themselves in the movie. So Bane's role had changed quite suddenly even before that part.
[spoiler]But that's what I've liked about Bane's character. His power is that he's super strong, so he makes a better henchman, than he does a main villain. The Joker would have made a better villain in the last film, and just used Bane (like most villains in the Batman series have done).[/spoiler]

I know this is not the Video Game forums, but since it's kind of related to this topic, has anybody played the Arkham Asylum / City games? I think Bane was depicted better in the movie than in the game, but the game chose the road most traveled for Bane's specific character.

[inm8#2]

Loved it. Great end to the trilogy.

Please, Warner Brothers, wait at least 5 years before you launch the inevitable reboot.

[KatieHal]

I'll echo the sentiments about Colorado. The whole thing is just absolutely awful. At least they've got the guy responsible for it. I could go on, but..that's not what this thread is for.

Anyways, the movie! I very much enjoyed it, although I also felt it had some flaws.

[spoiler]I wanted more Batman in it! I didn't really love the whole 'send Bruce Wayne off with a not-quite-broken-back to literally a hole in the ground for a huge chunk of the action of the movie. I would rather have had him in Gotham while this horrible situation was going on, and trapped there or forced to continue to stay quiet lest the bomb be set off or something.

Also...HOW DID HE GET BACK INTO GOTHAM?! Seriously! Kind of a big detail to just skip over!

Even though I did know that Al Ghul had a daughter, famously, in the comics, I was still totally shocked at the twist and did not see it coming. That was a well-done burying the lead. But...this is again where I felt it would've been better to have Bruce trapped in Gotham, so that both leading lady relationships could've been better developed: Miranda's betrayal would've hurt more, and the endcap of him with Selina would've felt more earned and developed.

I guess it just seemed that Bruce's struggle was too disconnected from the main story of Gotham. And yeah, Talia/Miranda's motivations and logic were murky.

Also...who was Selina's gal-pal and what exactly was her role? Accomplice? Friend? Sister? Lover? Then she just disappeared!
[/spoiler]

Don't get me wrong--I really enjoyed the movie. A lot! But it had some flaws.

Overall, I think TDK was the strongest of the trilogy. Undoubtedly, it would've been best to be able to bring back the Joker, but that was clearly not an option. I read a long article in EW about the movie, and they decided very early on that the Joker was just someone who would not could not be mentioned in this movie because of the loss of Heath Ledger. I can respect that, and it was respectful of them to do so as well.

Argh, gotta go back behind some spoiler cuts.

[spoiler]I liked the two villains, I liked the anti-hero of Catwoman (although I felt she wasn't quite well developed...anohter viewing may change my mind on that, I don't know), but there was something not quite there with their development.[/spoiler]

Oh! And I loved John Blake, everything about him, beginning to end.
[spoiler]Kind of saw that ending bit coming for him, but I really liked it. And while his name being Robin is a bit hokey, I don't think he's going to become Robin. I think he's going to become the new Batman; they did make the point more than once that the whole idea was that anyone could be Batman. So someone else will be now.[/spoiler]

My thoughts on the BatVoice: I know it's easy to mock, but I think it's just fine. I've always kinda assumed the voice came not from Bruce Wayne doing anything to his voice, but from something the suit did for him (hence he talks in that voice to everyone while in the suit, even if they know who he is). People keep saying oh, they should've dropped it, but why? It would have been more weird if they did that at this point after having the BatVoice for two movies already. It's not awful, it's just easy to poke at, but it has a purpose.

[Bludshot]

Soooo many spoiler tags.

[spoiler]In regards to the "How did he get back into Gotham?" That occurred to me, but c'mon, he is Batman, if those lame spec ops guys could get in, I'm sure Bruce Wayne could.  Plus I just feel like it is unimportant, the real point is that Batman comes back and does his fake sacrifice for Gotham thing.  Besides he probably just walked across the ice, using his ninja skills from his Liam Neeson ice sword fights. [/spoiler]

[Haids1987]

I looked on imdb regarding this: [spoiler]In regards to the "How did he get back into Gotham?" That occurred to me, but c'mon, he is Batman, if those lame spec ops guys could get in, I'm sure Bruce Wayne could.[/spoiler]

and here's the gist of the answer:[spoiler] the prison was NOT in the middle of the Middle East, it's in Mexico. Therefore his return to the United States is not as far a commute as we might think--and plus, he traveled the world for seven years without a plan or purpose. He probably got really good at hitching illegal rides and sneaking onto vehicles.[/spoiler]

I never read the comics, so the whole [spoiler]Talia thing completely threw me for a loop. I was so taken aback, and I thought it was an amazing plot twist! And I'm with you, Katie, who the heck was the busty blonde that hung out with Selina? I just figured she was a friend/roomie, but if there's more to her story, I'm all ears![/spoiler]

All in all it was just a really enjoyable, powerful movie, and I was really glad I saw it. [spoiler]The ending had me B A W L I N G like a PMSing girl (which, hey! I AM a PMSing girl!!! ): from the moment that the Bat explodes to the credits rolling. [/spoiler] It was so, so deep and touching, and so consequently the last 15 minutes of the movie I remember being all blurry from my tears.

[Fierce Deity]

[spoiler]I don't think Jen's character (Selina's roommate) was supposed to be a bigger part of the story. I just think it showed that Selina was raised from poverty and had to make friends where she could. Cause Jen also seemed like a thief of sorts, or at least a distraction for Selina to steal what she wanted. Probably nothing more to see in her character than just a reflection of Selina's character.[/spoiler]

[inm8#2]

[spoiler]Bruce escaped the prison with something like 23 days left before the bomb was set to detonate. He managed to get around the world in various capacities for 7 years before his training, so it's not inconceivable he secured various forms of transportation back to Gotham over a period of a couple weeks.

As for actually entering the city, remember that Wayne Manor is outside the city island which was cut off. And the last we saw of The Bat, it was in the Bat Cave after Batman's first appearance. So, upon his return Bruce went to the Bat Cave, fired up The Bat, and landed it on the rooftop where it is later seen when he's talking with Fox. Then, it was just a matter of entering the building from the roof and exiting onto the street.

Plus, he's a ninja. Those guys know how to move unseen.[/spoiler]

[KatieHal]

It would've been nice if they'd made all that more clear in the movie itself, though

[Enchantermon]

I was totally stoked for this movie, and it was pretty amazing! It took a little while for me to really catch on to it though; there was so much going on in the beginning that I felt a little disconnected, but eventually it pulled me in. Anne Hathaway certainly didn't hurt; I love her as an actress and she was an amazing Catwoman! I do like [spoiler]that they never actually called her "Catwoman"; somehow it would have felt like a little too much. Not quite sure why, though.[/spoiler]

I agree that the movie would have probably (and rightly so) utilized the Joker had Ledger not died, since the Joker survived The Dark Knight. As it is, it kind of leaves a gap in the series seeing as how he was such a memorable criminal for Gotham, but they really couldn't have done anything different. As much as it's sad for him to be absent, I wouldn't have wanted someone else playing the part, either.

Oh! And I loved John Blake, everything about him, beginning to end.
[spoiler]Kind of saw that ending bit coming for him, but I really liked it. And while his name being Robin is a bit hokey, I don't think he's going to become Robin. I think he's going to become the new Batman; they did make the point more than once that the whole idea was that anyone could be Batman. So someone else will be now.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I saw that coming too; in fact, there was a trailer that featured some lines that really foreshadowed that, and I was pretty excited. But even though I knew that was coming, my mind about exploded when they revealed that his name was Robin; I definitely did not see that coming, and it was an awesome little spin to take the mediocre Robin from the previous movies and remake him into the new Batman! I'm positive that's what they were foreshadowing; otherwise remaking the Batsignal doesn't make any sense.

And as far as Talia is concerned, my mind did explode when all of that was revealed. Looking back on it, it's kind of surprising how it didn't feel like that twist was shoehorned in, though it did detract from Bane, I thought. It's funny; seeing the scar on her back hinted that there was more to her, but I never expected that, nor did I expect the League of Shadows to come back into play.[/spoiler]

My thoughts on the BatVoice: I know it's easy to mock, but I think it's just fine. I've always kinda assumed the voice came not from Bruce Wayne doing anything to his voice, but from something the suit did for him (hence he talks in that voice to everyone while in the suit, even if they know who he is). People keep saying oh, they should've dropped it, but why? It would have been more weird if they did that at this point after having the BatVoice for two movies already. It's not awful, it's just easy to poke at, but it has a purpose.

Actually, in the first movie, there are a couple of times when he doesn't use that voice while he's in the suit. I can't remember the specific scenes though...
Anyway, the Batvoice never really annoyed me. [spoiler]I wish Bane could have been easier to understand though; there were some lines I just couldn't understand due to his muffled voice.[/spoiler]

The only thing that I think I would have changed would be this:
[spoiler]I wish that Alfred and Bruce would have had a real reconciliation. Alfred was so wonderful in the trilogy; I had only ever remembered seeing him portrayed before as a bit part; someone who didn't really do much of anything (I never read the comics, so maybe he's different in them from the movies), but was just kind of there. By contrast, this Alfred was loving, loyal, realistic and wise, and Michael Cain, who I liked anyway, was simply excellent. So it really hurt to see Bruce dismiss him and walk away. I did like how they had the little dream-fulfillment scene at the end, where Alfred sees what he had always hoped to while Bruce was missing, and there did seem to be an air of "no hard feelings my friend," between them, but it still wasn't very satisfactory. But maybe that's just me.[/spoiler]

Overall, the movie was a spectacular end to the trilogy. I can easily say that I'm very, very glad that Batman ended up in Christopher Nolan's hands. The only downside is that I feel the reboot will suffer, because I can't imagine it being any better that what Nolan crafted.

[Mr_Nabby]

I thought this movie was pretty amazing. It was pretty hard to top The Dark Knight. This one didn't, but it did a good job to keep up. Only one thing really bothered me about it though. A line from the Daggert character...
[spoiler]"The Blank Slate? You mean the software that erases your complete identity records if you type in your social security number? That thing?" - Most forced exposition EVER! [/spoiler]

But I liked Sean Connery as Bane though! 
[spoiler]Alright, I KNOW he is played by Tom Hardy, but who isn't thinking Sean Connery when they hear that voice?  [/spoiler]

[Haids1987]

Dude, I love the BatVoice! It makes me laugh. It's fun to make fun of! I think, Enchantermon, that the reason he doesn't use it all the time in Batman Begins is because he's still perfecting the suit. Y'know, for spelunking and such.

And Bane's voice? Loved it. I was expecting it to be a lot worse, since every interview about the movie I read/listened to said it "was THE WORST THING EVER and you couldn't understand aword he said!!!" Naw, I was pleasantly surprised. He actually kinda reminded me of [spoiler]Darth Vader: gravelly, masked voice and death grip? All we needed was for HIM to be Talia's father and we'd be all set![/spoiler]

[Enchantermon]

He actually kinda reminded me of [spoiler]Darth Vader: gravelly, masked voice and death grip? All we needed was for HIM to be Talia's father and we'd be all set![/spoiler]

Funny you say that, because I could understand Darth Vader just fine, and actually thought that it would have been better if they could have emulated the filters used for him a little more.

[Cez]

Yeah, didn't top The Dark Knight, but did a pretty great job at keeping up. A little behind, but just a little

Woah... when was the last time I posted in these forums?

[Damar]

Finally got around to seeing this movie.  I really liked it.  I'm not sure Nolan would have continued with the Joker if Ledger hadn't died.  Personally I'm glad he didn't, not because I would have found it inappropriate (honestly, I think that an actor like Johnny Depp could have pulled it off and any difference could have been explained by him being in prison.)  I'm glad he didn't do it because it would have been too much retreading of what already happened.   Joker had his story arc.  Besides, I thought Harvey Dent was the true villain of Dark Knight.  Ledger did a fantastic job, but I never saw him as epic as everyone else did.  Honestly, I think a lot of that perception, as incredible a job as Ledger did, was due to the fact that Ledger died.  Aaron Eckhart I thought was brilliant and his story arc really is what made the movie for me.  Anyway, not rehashing the Joker left room for new villains.  And speaking of which, I loved the Bane character, particularly that he was intelligent and not an Incredible Hulk ripoff, like in Batman and Robin or Arkham Asylum.  My one complaint about him would be...ok, I guess I'll put this in a spoiler tag
[spoiler]when he dies, it's very, very quick.  Like, blink and you miss it quick.  He was so awesome, I wanted to see something a bit bigger than Catwoman just blasting him across a room.  Also, was that really a spoiler?  Did anyone really think Bane made it out alive?[/spoiler]

I agree with Katie that...sigh, spoilers...
[spoiler]They should have made it clear how Batman made it back to Gotham.  And in his Bat uniform no less.  I didn't realize that the prison was supposed to be in Mexico.  And it really doesn't look like Mexico.  More Turkey or somewhere like that.  Just a few scenes of him somehow booking passage or arriving at Wayne manor and revving up the Bat.  Anything.  All we got was him suddenly on the ice though.[/spoiler]

My biggest issue with the film though was...SPOILER TAG TIME!
[spoiler]Batman should have died.  They were building that up from the very beginning.  And he had a nuclear bomb strapped to his batplane.  Not only does it stretch credibility that he just dropped the bomb and flew off and somehow escaped the radiation, but it also robbed the end of the emotion it held.  Bruce Wayne doesn't get to heal.  That's why he became the Batman.  He's a tragic and deeply flawed character and his story can only end in sadness and tragedy.  Plus, once again, they were foreshadowing it from the beginning.  I wanted to groan when I saw Alfred at the cafe and knew what was coming next.  Batman should have died.  No chance of return, no happiness.  He chose his path.  Though to be fair, I was kind of expecting Nolan to salt the earth and kill off Fox as well.

Also, I do want to note that detonating a nuclear bomb in the ocean is going to be a threat to shipping, fishing, and the entire ecosystem for decades to come, to say nothing of potential fallout that could still hit Gotham if the wind hits.  That kind of bothered me and seemed like a magic, "everything is all better now" solution.[/spoiler]

I also loved...spoiler attack!
[spoiler]That Scarecrow returned yet again.  And survived yet again!  I thought it would bother me, like it did in Dark Knight, but now I think it just fits his character.  He's an opportunist and a sociopath, but at his core he's a coward.  He only shows up when he has an advantage and when that advantage is gone, he scurries away like a cockroach and survives.  And like a cockroach you can't kill him.  Gotham can burn to the ground and Scarecrow would somehow survive.[/spoiler]

Lastly, living in Pittsburgh, I have to say that it was awesome to see the city on display.  I was laughing out of control at times when I recognized landmarks and Pittsburgh identifiers.  I've walked down all those streets downtown, I live near the football stadium.  My favorite, though, is the UPMC on the scoreboard at the football stadium and on the top of the tower that the Bat flies over during the climax.  That stands for University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.  They own, like, all of the hospitals in Pittsburgh and they have their own insurance.  They are the true League of Shadows.

[Delling]

My biggest issue with the film though was...SPOILER TAG TIME!
[spoiler]Batman should have died.  They were building that up from the very beginning.  And he had a nuclear bomb strapped to his batplane.  Not only does it stretch credibility that he just dropped the bomb and flew off and somehow escaped the radiation, but it also robbed the end of the emotion it held.  Bruce Wayne doesn't get to heal.  That's why he became the Batman.  He's a tragic and deeply flawed character and his story can only end in sadness and tragedy.  Plus, once again, they were foreshadowing it from the beginning.  I wanted to groan when I saw Alfred at the cafe and knew what was coming next.  Batman should have died.  No chance of return, no happiness.  He chose his path.  Though to be fair, I was kind of expecting Nolan to salt the earth and kill off Fox as well.

Also, I do want to note that detonating a nuclear bomb in the ocean is going to be a threat to shipping, fishing, and the entire ecosystem for decades to come, to say nothing of potential fallout that could still hit Gotham if the wind hits.  That kind of bothered me and seemed like a magic, "everything is all better now" solution.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yeah, the nuke solution wasn't one, but... actually!! I think it would be utterly unbelievable if The Bat hadn't been capable of cutting the cable, dropping the bomb, and flying back on its own. They HAD set up that Bruce said he would fix the autopilot (and they had just had him tell everyone that he hadn't... but then you couldn't possibly have the scene wherein Fox examines The Bat... b/c it'd be particles and flotsam at that point).

Basically, the idea that an aerial combat vehicle has a wench but not a cable cut would have stretched disbelief even further in my mind.[/spoiler]