The Star Wars Thread

[crayauchtin]

I had heard that George Lucas originally wrote nine episodes.

Whether or not they were good, whether or not Disney will use the ones he wrote..... beyond that I have no idea. Frankly, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan so I'm kind of indifferent.

[dark-daventry]

I admit to being a Star Trek fan moreso than I am a Star Wars fan, but I am a fan of both. I remember growing up I had heard so many rumors going around that Lucas had a three trilogy plan, but I have no idea if any of that is true or not.

[darthkiwi]

My outlook is: well, they can hardly do worse than the prequels, can they?

I happen to like the prequel trilogy a lot.

I don't understand, but I'm glad you can enjoy them. But... my brain can't figure out *how* you can enjoy them. I recently rewatched all 6 films. After 4 and 5, I wanted more! After 1, 2 and 3, I just wanted to stop.

[Haids1987]

I don't understand, but I'm glad you can enjoy them. But... my brain can't figure out *how* you can enjoy them. I recently rewatched all 6 films. After 4 and 5, I wanted more! After 1, 2 and 3, I just wanted to stop.

Actually, I just did the same exact thing. I decided that, since I own all the movies, I might as well give the prequels another try. My opinions as a 25 year-old:

EPISODE I: Jar Jar Binks needs to die; the kid playing young Anakin is the worst child actor in history; Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and Natalie Portman can kick ass in no matter what roles they play (even if said roles are atrociously written); and all the pod racing made the movie even more boring than it already was. Seriously? Was it really necessary to base so much of the movie on such a minor detail?!

EPISODE II: Hayden Christiansen is even worse than his younger counterpart in Episode I (I was embarrassed FOR him and was glad nobody was around to see me cringing every time he spoke); Natalie Portman and Ewan McGergor are cute as ever and still do a great job (even though their scripts were nearly as terrible this time around); Samuel L. Jackson will be a badass no matter what color his lightsaber is; the love story between Anakin and Padme was simply cringe-worthy and I found myself laughing nervously during the "romantic" scenes (especially the part where Anakin is gushing to her on the couch, or when the pair of them are frolicking in the fields of Naboo...ugh...) because I wasn't sure how to interpret them; though all in all II was better than I--however slightly.

EPISODE III: Since sh*t got real in this one, I must say that I enjoyed Episode III more than the other two. But OH MY FREAKING GOODNESS, Hayden Christiansen is SO terrible! He seriously needs to let up on the gruff, spoiled little boy thing he's got going on--I know he's supposed to be evil incarnate, but there's a difference between being the toughest, scariest guy in the far, far away galaxy and a whiny little b*tch who stomps his feet and says defiantly to Obi-Wan: "Don't make me kill you!" Oh God, I'm laughing just typing it! Anyway, Anakin was really the worst thing about Episode III. I was distracted by how terrible his acting was the entire movie, even though the script was preeeeeeeeeetty  horrid everywhere else too. When Palpatine is trying to provoke Anakin to kill Mace, he sounds like a toothless old man, especially when he starts shouting, "Nooooo! Nooooooo!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" But, all that aside, it was cool to finally see how it all went down and watch what happens to baby Luke and Leia. (Truth time: I found myself crying when they were delivered to their respective parents, and their theme songs were playing. )

[KatieHal]

Ep 3 creates some problems, too--like that Leia later says she remembers her mother in Ep 6. And the implication is that she means her REAL mother. While whomever Bail Organa's wife was, yes, she would've also been her 'mother', but still it kind of ruins that moment in Episode 6 with her and Luke talking about their mother.

I forget who or where, but I remember reading/hearing someone say an interesting twist could've been a love triangle of Padme, Anakin, and Obi-wan. I also think that could've been interesting and added a good twist and some good drama to the whole thing.

[Deloria]

Once again South Park has the most interesting take on this.

I thought Padmé was the worst thing about Episode III. In the previous two, we had a strong, independent, politically active female character who was deeply beloved by everyone. In the third one her political career disappears apart from in one scene and she spends the majority of her time waiting around for Anakin, making it seem like she actually doesn't have a life that doesn't involve waiting for him and has nothing better to do with her time.

EDIT: The frolicking scene was the worst thing about Episode II. It was painfully awkward. For two people who are meant to be attracted to each other, they seem to have such an aversion to genuine affection.

[KatieHal]

Ugh, I know, I hate that!

Really, her character is mishandled in all 3, I think. First movie: okay, what? Who ELECTS a 14-year-old to rule their planet? But okay, let's say this happens. Let's see some of the ramifications of putting a 14-year-old into this position! this means she's been raised and groomed for this, she's always at risk of being manipulated (and is? isn't she? how does she react to that?). The group of handmaidens with whom she can easily blend in is a nice nod to that, but that's all we get.

Second movie: She spends the majority of the movie rolling around in the grass with Anakin, wearing dominatrix outfits around him, telling him they can't be together, then doing it anyways and getting married in secret in the end. This love story is even worse than Twilight! She's a senator, an important political figure, someone who grew up groomed for politics, and this is all she does: fall for a whiny teenager!

Third movie: As mentioned, she does nothing but stand around being pregnant here. That's it. No one asks her, hey, who's the dad? No one hounds her, she barely does anything despite being a senator...ugh.

Her character's set up is really intriguing and full of potential and it is wasted time and time again.

[Neonivek]

The problem with the third was that they tried to do too much too fast. It could have worked if it was split up into two movies.

The Sheer amount of villains and heros who were pathetically killed off is immense.

Padme dropping out of politics for a while because she finds out she is pregnant COULD have made for some good storytelling... but they didn't want to really do that they wanted her to be a Damsel for Anakin.

[darthkiwi]

I completely agree with everything everyone's said. You've all said what I think of these movies.

I think 3 had a surprising amount going for it (given how awful 1 and 2 were) but even then, it doesn't quite pull it off. I like how Palpatine uses people's fear of a Jedi dictatorship to start up his own dictatorship, and I like the fact that Anakin has a more or less believable reason to become evil, but I just do not care about Anakin at all, and I lost all respect for Padme once she became a nonentity.

[Lambonius]

I just think Padme and Anakin should have gotten together earlier.  There would have been so much potential for a scene with Padme teaching Anakin about his body.  Oh well.

[snabbott]

[Haids1987]

Second movie: She spends the majority of the movie rolling around in the grass with Anakin, wearing dominatrix outfits around him, telling him they can't be together, then doing it anyways and getting married in secret in the end..She's a senator, an important political figure, someone who grew up groomed for politics, and this is all she does: fall for a whiny teenager!

Third movie: As mentioned, she does nothing but stand around being pregnant here. That's it. No one asks her, hey, who's the dad? No one hounds her, she barely does anything despite being a senator...ugh.

Padme dropping out of politics for a while because she finds out she is pregnant COULD have made for some good storytelling... but they didn't want to really do that they wanted her to be a Damsel for Anakin.

This is all so true and sad. She was a powerful, well-versed young woman, and drops it all just because she's knocked up. And then at the end, giving up on her life just because her husband turned evil, she "has lost the will to live?!" Ummm, hello, you give GAVE BIRTH TO TWINS. If that's not a reason to live, then I don't know what is!

The fact stands that Lucas, love him though I might, has lost his scriptwriting touch. The more we discuss it the better I feel...though there's still that nagging "ZOMG I FEAR CHANGE!!" voice in the back of my mind. Ah, well, we shall see how it goes down!

[Neonivek]

He never "Lost his touch" it is because people always sort of kept him grounded or told him when his dialog was terrible (Heck, I even heard many of the scenes in the original Starwars trilogy was done on the spot or outright edited by the actors)

However what happened is he sort of became too famos for his own good so to speak so that no one would dare edit his scripts.

Heck, JarJar makes perfect sense if you understand Lucas' stance on Starwars.

AHHH! I just realised something

What does this mean about Lucas Arts and Monkey Island?

[Blackthorne]

George Lucas lost his grounding when Gary Kurtz left.... that was post Empire Strikes Back.

Read these articles for more info.... but Kurtz and Lucas worked together since "American Graffitti" and he really helped him keep his ideas grounded.  Without him, we spun off into RotJ territory - which wasn't horrible, but it paved the way for the prequels.  If the prequels had a modicum of editing and focus from outside sources (instead of an insufferable 'yes man' like Rick McCallum) they could have been good films instead of the mediocre ones they are.  I don't say horrible, because as far as Sci-Fi Space Operas go, they're like "Eh, okay."  But, you know, "Eh Okay" kind of sucks.

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2010/08/star-wars-producer-gary-kurtz.php

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/12/entertainment/la-et-gary-kurtz-20100812

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/08/12/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/    - Longer version of above article

http://www.vulture.com/2011/10/gary_kurtz_star_wars_prequels.html


Bt

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

George Lucas lost his grounding when Gary Kurtz left.... that was post Empire Strikes Back.

Read these articles for more info.... but Kurtz and Lucas worked together since "American Graffitti" and he really helped him keep his ideas grounded.  Without him, we spun off into RotJ territory - which wasn't horrible, but it paved the way for the prequels.  If the prequels had a modicum of editing and focus from outside sources (instead of an insufferable 'yes man' like Rick McCallum) they could have been good films instead of the mediocre ones they are.  I don't say horrible, because as far as Sci-Fi Space Operas go, they're like "Eh, okay."  But, you know, "Eh Okay" kind of sucks.

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2010/08/star-wars-producer-gary-kurtz.php

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/12/entertainment/la-et-gary-kurtz-20100812

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/08/12/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/    - Longer version of above article

http://www.vulture.com/2011/10/gary_kurtz_star_wars_prequels.html


Bt

Have you ever read Lucas' first several drafts for the original Star Wars? They're literally horrid! He made like four or five drafts between 1973 and 1976 or so, refining it with help from others.....

Lucas, I think, often gets too much credit. There was Gary Kurtz, as you mentioned, who played a big role, and then there's other too often unsung heroes like Lawrence Kasdan and Irvin Kershner, and even Lucas' own former wife Marcia...Without any of these people, and many others (including many of Lucas' celebrity friends such as Coppola and Spielberg who offered ideas or advice), the original films would never have been anywhere near as good as they were.

Lucas sort of takes sole credit and promotes himself as this visionary genius when he had a whole bunch of people giving his vision shape. Don't get me wrong; Having a vision, having that spark of creativity and inventiveness within you is praise worthy, and Lucas is brilliant in his own way, but not on his own. He has good ideas, he simply needs other people to give those ideas workable shape, and to tell him when his ideas are bad ones.

I like the prequels for what they are...I actually think The Phanton Menace is a really good Sci-Fi film in it's own right and isn't a bad movie at all. The other two prequels are meh, IMO. But when you put any of the prequels next to the magic of the original trilogy, that's when they seem to suck.

By the way, Star Wars: A New Hope, the original '77 film, is my favorite. It has this wonderful standalone feel, this other-wordly, adventurous sort of feel, it hints at this huge universe full of interesting characters and worlds and beings and some grand struggle, and you don't need to view any of the other films to enjoy it, at all. It's also in it's own way the least commercial (no Ewoks abound here!). What's your favorite?

[Blackthorne]

Empire.  All the way.  Series never got better than The Empire Strikes Back.  I love Star Wars, and I agree that it's a totally enjoyable, self-contained movie - Empire just took the biscuit and made the gravy to go with it.


Bt

[Neonivek]

Though I did see the Poster for the next Starwars

It doesn't say good things to me

[Blackthorne]

Though I did see the Poster for the next Starwars

It doesn't say good things to me

I don't think there's an official poster for the next Star Wars yet.  It's to be released in 2015.


Bt

[inm8#2]

The problem with the prequels was that Lucas wrote and directed them with little creative input, other than from his yes man Rick McCallum. There was no peer review. Nobody told him his writing was awful.

Lucas had good ideas for the framework of the story, but the execution was poor. That's where he needed people like Gary Kurtz, Marcia Lucas, etc. All those other people are who really made the original trilogy so great. But as Lucas changed between ESB and ROTJ, he took in less and less input.

[Damar]

My favorite growing up was actually Jedi.  Even now I really like the movie, possibly better than the original.  It's just fun and jaunty and action packed.  It has a natural light-heartedness that Lucas has tried to forcefully recreate in the prequels (and failed miserably at.)  Now my favorite is Empire for the usual reasons.

The prequels though, I can't even enjoy as entertainment.  I can't get past the dull, pointless plot and pod racing of Phantom Menace to say nothing of the horrible acting.  Clones was just as dull to me and Sith collapsed under the weight of its own flashy effects and wannabe melodrama.  The plots never made any sense, the characters were pointless.  And there were so many characters, too.  And it was like I was expected to read their backstory prior.  "Well, if you'd seen The Clone Wars you'd know all about General Grievous and why he wheezes and blah blah blah."  Well, I didn't see the Clone Wars.  I came to a movie and all I see is some lame character that came out of nowhere and is constantly coughing.  I hated the midochlorians.  And I hated how shocked everyone was when Anakin turned evil.  There was a whole prophecy about him bringing balance to the force.  Dude, you live in a world with only two (one and a half after fighting Darth Maul) Sith and approximately a crapton of Jedi and Jedi in training.  If Anakin is going to bring balance to the force, what else did you expect him to do but slaughter everyone and make the dark side more powerful?  There's just so much wrong with the movies that I can't enjoy them on any level.  And I'm not just saying that because it's trendy.  I really cannot enjoy the films.  I tried my best to like them.  And as a side-note, if there's anyone left on the internet that hasn't seen Redletter Media's Plinkett reviews of the prequels, go watch them.  They utterly destroy these films.

But, again, Disney really can't do any worse than what already happened.  In my mind, it's just not possible.