The Star Wars Thread

[Blackthorne]

 


And I never, ever, ever use emoticons.


Bt

[Neonivek]

As for humans in fantasy settings, most of the time there IS a given explanation. Most fantasy worlds actually have explanations for how every race came to be

They really don't need one. I just assume Humans occured naturally the same way they did on earth or were created by a god or however the setting is set up.

Starwars only needed a reason because Starwars takes place in our universe.

And Neonivek, I'm confused by what you said about Star Trek? :\ Humans are humans from Earth in all of the Star Trek series

Ohh in the original Startrek they will often go onto planets with... what is essentially humans in everyway. Such as Mafia Planet. They were always aliens they just looked exactly like humans.

[crayauchtin]

Ohhhh, no, no, I know what you're talking about now!!

Yeah, there's a "scientific theory" in the original series (which is basically never addressed again afterwards, except maybe in the Enterprise series which I never watched) called (I looked this up on the Wiki I don't just know it ) "Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development" which states, basically, that planets that are similar will develop similarly -- not just in the sense of similar races evolving, but similar societal and cultural developments on planets with sentient races.

So, you have Earth-like planets that are populated by races practically indistinguishable from humans who have reeeeeeeeeeeeally similar histories. It was basically a way for them to explore parallels Earths without dimension hopping. They did this with the Roman Empire in one episode -- they came across a planet which had had a "Roman Empire" (it presumably wasn't called that though) except the Empire never fell.
(The problem with this is that the planet had only developed to the industrial revolution, technologically, and if you actually look at for-real history, if the Roman Empire had never fallen we'd most likely have much more advanced technology than we have today rather than being further behind but that's a debate for another thread. )

But Star Trek also (and I just looked this up on the Wiki too) did explore the idea that a lot of the humanoid races were (or *may have*) been genetically altered by much much much more advanced races in the distant past. Some of these ancient aliens also abducted humans and transplanted them onto other planets. In these instances though, the presence of humans where it doesn't make sense is actually the entire premise of the episode, not something they ignore and just carry on with whatever's going on just because they wanted some extra humans. (And these human-identical races usually aren't given names, but they're never called humans. "Human" is a word from Earth.)

Are these terribly cheesy explanations? Yes. Do they exist just because of budget constraints? Pretty much. But I think they accomplish exactly what Star Wars wanted to do by having humans without making the presence of humans seem totally nonsensical.

[Damar]

I just want to know why Star Wars doesn't have any bathrooms.

It's because the characters don't have to use the bathroom.  Only humans have to use the bathroom and since these characters are not from Earth...  I think it's probably explained somewhere in the extended universe.  Hard to believe it wouldn't be as the extended universe has always seemed like a circus sideshow to me.  It's fun to think what other differences there might be between these human looking aliens and actual humans.  Like, maybe, when Leia kissed Luke in Empire that's the way these aliens get it on!  Oh yeah, I went there!

In the end, none of it matters though, because Star Trek is so much better!

[Numbers]

No. Star Wars is better.

<WARNING: flamewar has begun>

[GrahamRocks!]

You just had to say it, didn't you?

[crayauchtin]

NO!

My Little Ponies is better!

....I'm kidding.

[Jafar]

This thread makes me feel embarassed to be a Star Wars fan.

[Neonivek]

This thread makes me feel embarassed to be a Star Wars fan.

Why do people keep chiming in here to say things like this?

I am starting to feel embarassed for being a human being.

[Jafar]

Debating and analyzing is all well and good, but what's the point in stretching out a childish, inane argument like the one this thread degenerated into?

[Delling]

Debating and analyzing is all well and good, but what's the point in stretching out a childish, inane argument like the one this thread degenerated into?

Well, see, I'm not sure on this point. There was an actually interesting point/discussion to be had (though off the original topic of the thread, so I didn't follow it). Why are there humans in every story we tell? If there aren't humans, there are usually anthropomorphized characters, etc. Even discussing the implications of the Light/Dark-side duality in comparison to a good/evil duality is somewhat more interesting than sitting around talking about how cool lightsabers are.

So, my point is that it is possible to have interesting, intellectually stimulating conversation on points that seem arbitrary or silly and that running around calling every analysis of something you find unanalyzable (because you consider it silly or arbitrary from the outset and therefore unworthy of proper intelligent analysis) stymies actual productive conversation. To that end, Neonivek has a valid complaint: he is interested in the discussion, but people keep chiming in not only to not contribute but also to detract by sharing their opinion that the conversation is silly, inane, childish, or pointless.

Here's the thing: if you don't reduce either intellectual or moral arguments or messages from media, then you are going through life with your brain lodged firmly in the off-position. You have the choice of when to turn it on or leave it off. So, you don't want to analyze Star Wars? Don't. Hopefully, you do analyze or consider the morality or logic underpinning at least some of what you consume. Now, if you don't want to do that for anything ever, I highly recommend that you get some intellectual depth... that or continue to be a drain on society. (Ok, I've slipped into using "you" for generic third person... I'm too lazy to change it now.) Telling other people their conversations are silly, inane, childish, or pointless is a way of trying to deny them intellectual curiosity, and if nothing else, unless they've done that to you, it is simply unfair. You think it's silly. You don't contribute. ...We're on the bloody TSL-forums, for Pete's sake--precisely how many times did some troll come along to say "you're all wasting your time, this is silly, this game will never happen"? Honestly.

[spoiler]It was a lot.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Also, also, we so meta--we be discussin' the virtues of discussin' stuff. [/spoiler]

[Say]

...We're on the bloody TSL-forums, for Pete's sake--precisely how many times did some troll come along to say "you're all wasting your time, this is silly, this game will never happen"? Honestly.

You're all wasting your time. This is silly. I wanna be like you when I grow up, Delling :3

[Blackthorne]

It's possible to have intelligent discourse and fun conversation simultaneously, without developing into the drek this thread became.  And just because it's on "The TSL Forums" doesn't mean it's always going to be "silly".  There's the asylum for that, and frankly, the walls of text in here belong in there.  I thought we banned Baggins for a reason....


Bt

[Deloria]

BT, we have registered your complaint. Thank you very much for your time.  We are a forum dedicated to your whims and we will do our utmost to accommodate you in whatever way we can. From now on we will only talk about things that interest you in the way you want to. I'm so sorry the rest of the people posting in this thread haven't understood how absolutely pivotal your happiness is to our own.

EDIT: I didn't use enough "". I thought that might be offensive.

[Blackthorne]

Not asking for that, Deloria.  But I am commenting on the sad state of affairs about this discussion, and I'm not alone in that opinion.


Bt

[snabbott]

Ok - speaking in my official moderator capacity, can we get back to discussing the actual topic and not the merits of discussing the topic? If you're not interested in discussing, then don't. Thank you.

And NOT in my moderator capacity:
The question of why there are (nearly) always humans or humanoids in SciFi is an interesting one imo and might be worth its own thread, as it's really not specific to Star Wars.

[KatieHal]

Thank you, snabbott

From a story-perspective, there are always humans because that way we, as humans, can easily settle into the story. We are humans, we know humans, we know how they/we tick, think, what our strengths and weaknesses are. Not to say that we don't get into stories without humans, but if you start with that, you've gotta set up a lot about the race/species of the characters before you can get to your story.

Also, it cuts down on the effects budget.

[snabbott]

Also, it cuts down on the effects budget.

Right - I forgot to mention that! Though that doesn't explain it in books. Isaac Asimov had an interesting way of handling it. In his Foundation books (set ~20,000 years in the future, IIRC), Earth was the only planet in the universe that had life because it was the only planet that had a large moon (leading to tides, tide pools, etc.).

[Lambonius]

I'm BAAAAAaaaaaack!  

Unrelated note:  Phantom Menace was on TV today.  I watched for a few minutes but was forced to change the channel shortly after Jake Lloyd opened his mouth.  Good Lord.  For my money, he's WAY worse than Jar Jar.  Just absolutely kills the watchability of that film.  Yeesh.

[Numbers]

And here we have Jake Lloyd, more than twelve years after the release of Phantom Menace! As we can clearly see, he is surrounded by swarms of fans, and is trying desperately to sign as many autographs as he possibly can.