The Star Wars Thread

[Neonivek]

I am fine with Imm even if he/she started to get pretty offensive aka the "You fail" part. Mostly because most of the time people completely misunderstand what I am saying and for once that isn't the case. In this case he sort of got the idea of what I wrote but misunderstood the point.

That is why you fail. You have made up your mind on a false notion and stubbornly reject all else.

It is simply by virtue that I don't need to know your point to make mine. I do not need to know how much George Lucas went commercial to understand that just because you go commercial it doesn't nessisarily mean you hurt your project.

In fact you sort of picked up on my point but thought it was the flaw in my arguement

Your claims are deeply flawed and don't remotely refute any facts I've presented

Yes, exactly. It doesn't refute what you are saying at all. It wasn't supposed to, that is why I was able to ignore large swaths of your arguement.

you've completely rejected the very evidenced trend that as Lucas prioritized merchandising and toy sales his storytelling suffered deeply

No, I was mostly legitimising the quality of shows, games, and movies created for marketing but are good. That is my only point.

It had nothing to do with anything but that.

Listening to it too much or too little can cause problems, though

Yeah there was this Cartoon I watched a little back that I am just a bit embarassed to saw I watched because of how girly and cheesy it was (not MLP).

There was a comment about it I saw someone made that the entire show was just garbage because it was created by a commercial company to advertise toys.

I was confused since honestly for a TV show made for little girls, with no action, and with nearly steriotypical villains... it was actually very entertaining and was freekishly deep as well. (In fact I later found out the reason the show was cancelled... was because people stopped buying the toy, not because the show became unpopular)

[inm8#2]

"That is why you fail" is a quote from ESB.

Where we disagree is that I believe Lucas went so far commercial that he lost touch with his roots as a filmmaker and storyteller, and his focus on merchandising the SW brand meant less emphasis on writing and story. I presented this as an example of strong focus on "marketing" being "bad" for telling a story. I didn't present it as a blanket statement that every single decision ever made for marketing purposes is automatically "bad".

And if we're talking offensive posting, I can point out Lambonius' comments directed at me. But nobody else seemed to mind those.

[Lambonius]

As for those quotes about Han, they're from Kurtz and Ford. I'd say they're qualified to know the development of the film.

Of course.  But I think you're taking them a bit too seriously.  Kurtz simply says that toy marketing was "A reason," not THE ONLY reason.  And Ford is clearly making a sarcastic joke. 

(Posted on: November 27, 2012, 07:24:18 PM)

And if we're talking offensive posting, I can point out Lambonius' comments directed at me. But nobody else seemed to mind those.

You get what you give, man.  Check your tone before you post and you won't get rude comments back in return.

[inm8#2]

 

When someone dismissively says they "don't need to get the point", they're begging for clarification. Hardly an issue of tone on my behalf.

Now the thread can move along to something else more productive? I think I'll just quietly head out the back door...

[GrahamRocks!]

Maybe we hould make this the Star Wars General Discussion thread instead?

[snabbott]

The hollow CGI was marketing - the films were sold almost exclusively on the visuals.

To be fair, this is true of a lot of Hollywood blockbusters, not just Star Wars.

And if we're talking offensive posting, I can point out Lambonius' comments directed at me. But nobody else seemed to mind those.

You get what you give, man.  Check your tone before you post and you won't get rude comments back in return.

And keep in mind that it can be really hard to judge someone's intent based solely on text. You may not think you're  being rude, but someone else may take it that way.

[inm8#2]

Thanks for the lessons in internet etiquette, everyone. Glad these can be selectively applied to me, but not universally for others who make rude comments.

Anybody else want to jump in before the thread gets back on topic?

[KatieHal]

Depends, anybody else wanna be a wise-ass and seal the deal on this thread getting locked? 'Cause it's been bordering on it for quite some time now.

To elaborate: Talk about Star Wars. If you must debate, debate politely and don't be a dick. That goes for everyone.

Now then. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....

[inm8#2]

The hollow CGI was marketing - the films were sold almost exclusively on the visuals.

To be fair, this is true of a lot of Hollywood blockbusters, not just Star Wars.

Right. That's actually something I made clear in my first post.

The prequel trilogy is fundamentally a major advertisement for toys, games, comics, and the whole SW brand. You could say the same for any movie, I suppose, but with SW merchandising the scope is just so much larger. The movies were not designed to tell the best story possible. They were designed to sell the most toys, by cramming as many digital, goofy looking aliens and exotic locations into each movie as possible. They had no heart like the original trilogy.

The Matrix came out around the same time as TPM, and it also was marketed heavily on visuals. But when people saw the movie, it was the clever, original storytelling that really grabbed people's attention (along with visuals). I can't speak for everyone, but it seemed like most people who saw TPM came out disappointed with the story and characters. And I think that while visuals can be a huge draw for audiences, the story and characters are what matter most for people's reactions.

I'm not sure if I have a major point here, but again my original intent was to provide my opinion that Lucas focused too much on most things except story and characters. And part of this was not fleshing out the backstory of supporting prequel characters like you guys were discussing before I hijacked the thread. And of course, having the opportunity to fill in those backstories with comics, toys, games, tv shows, etc. is what helps to keep the Star Wars brand alive and profitable.

It may be a cynical viewpoint, but I think there's a lot of truth behind it regarding how Lucas' priorities focused on these things. Just look at the period from 1983 to the early 90s. There really wasn't much going on with Star Wars. Then Timothy Zahn wrote his trilogy, and the EU kind of exploded. I think Lucas saw how much people wanted more Star Wars content in a variety of ways, and it formed his vision for how to craft the prequels, and how to use the prequels as a springboard for a new generation of merchandise. I don't hold it against him as it's something any sound businessman would do.

[Say]

I have tried to stay away from this for as long as possible but quite frankly, I could not care much anymore about what some of you may think of this. But this time around, let's just say it's just a mod rant.


inm8#2,

In behalf of the POS staff I would like to extend my apologies, I'm afraid my colleagues here have meant nothing but trying to steer a conversation back on track. I would like to point out that I wished other words were used in he process, but that is just a personal note for future reference. In no way shape or form I want anyone that has supported this community in such positive way for years to feel brushed off, specially over a misunderstanding like this.

I know and I appreciate your input has been over the time regarding POS work (in here and other places), and I also want to say thank you for everything. Again, I'm just sorry for this... whatever this thread deteriorated into, seriously.


Regarding the other two posters involved in the situation:

Lambonius,

I've got not much to say, really. I understand you're an opinionated individual and I sort of enjoy your strange sense of humor. However, It's sort of odd seeing someone so articulate and so seemingly well put together as you go ahead and snap with a "Check your tone" thing. I know you don't mind getting banned, but even Katie gets annoyed and she loses her lovely lady like self and goes to post something like:

"Anybody else wanna be a wise-ass and seal the deal?" kind of thing. Poor Katie. I like her. Don't give he an ulcer, please. We need her for the upcoming -may or may not be cliched- episodes.


Neonivek,

I believe you enjoy discussion and you have your own idea of entertainment, however if you are to post in this community you are to be mindful of how you come across to members of this community.


Ok. That's all.


I officially hate Star Wars.

[snabbott]

Thanks for the lessons in internet etiquette, everyone. Glad these can be selectively applied to me, but not universally for others who make rude comments.

Ok - apparently I need to apply my own advice better. I apologize inm8#2 - the etiquette comment wasn't specifically directed at you, nor was I trying to defend rude comments from anyone.

Back to the discussion...

(Posted on: November 28, 2012, 04:46:11 PM)

Then Timothy Zahn wrote his trilogy, and the EU kind of exploded.

I haven't read any of the novels, but these sound interesting. Maybe I should...

[Neonivek]

I believe you enjoy discussion and you have your own idea of entertainment, however if you are to post in this community you are to be mindful of how you come across to members of this community.

How extremely vague. Though I interpret the second part as: "Communicate better", which is sort of tougher then one might think given the concepts I try to get across.

I officially hate Star Wars

What? But starwars has brought so much joy to us! Remember Spaceballs?

[KatieHal]

"When will then be now?"

[Lambonius]

Poor Katie. I like her. Don't give he an ulcer, please.

But making Katie pull her hair out is the primary reason I post here! 

[snabbott]

Poor Katie. I like her. Don't give he an ulcer, please.

But making Katie pull her hair out is the primary reason I post here! 

[KatieHal]

I hate lamb. Especially with mint jelly.

[snabbott]

"When will then be now?"

Looking this up, I came across another quote that seemed appropriate:

Yogurt: Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made. Spaceballs-the T-shirt, Spaceballs-the Coloring Book, Spaceballs-the Lunch box, Spaceballs-the Breakfast Cereal, Spaceballs-the Flame Thrower.

[Neonivek]

I hate lamb. Especially with mint jelly.

Truth be known I don't like Lamb either.

[Lambonius]

I hate lamb. Especially with mint jelly.

Truth be known I don't like Lamb either.

[Cez]

oh, man, Lamb. I'll give you a hug.