Argue: Why KQ6 is the best KQ game.

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

He's power hungry, yes.
But was Hagatha power hungry? What exactly were her motives? What were Dahlia's motives? What was Manannan's motives? There's literally nothing in the games to tell you. And even in the manuals there isn't much.
And Lolotte? We get "she's jealous of Genesta" for her motive. That's it. She's jealous.

Why does there have to be a motive? Why can't evil simply be evil for evil's sake? Manannan is a sadist, and he's lazy. The manual does say as much. He takes sadistic joy in seeing mankind suffer, and is too lazy to do his own house chores. So combine both and you can see why he'd kidnap boys and make slaves of them. Lolotte's motive was made clear in KQ4. She wanted to control Tamir totally, if not the world. She wanted to use the power of Pandora's Box to increase her own power and increase evil thoroughout the world.

Hagatha's motive is the classic one of an old and ugly crone being jealous and contemptuous of the most beautiful girl in the Kingdom.

Now Mordack, we know what he wants. He was to cure his brother from a spell, or get revenge on the one who cast it. That's solid. What Mordack is lacking is a "why now?" Like seriously, why didn't he swoop in right away with this?

Why overthink it? Only a year has passed between KQ3 and KQ5. Perhaps it took him so long to find out. Simple as that.

Alhazred on the other hand, we have a clear motive. We have clear plan he's enacting. And we even have a "why now?" in that his scheme just took forever to accomplish, and then he had to do some fast re-planning when Cassima came back. And even know he was power hungry and evil, it took the whole game to fully piece together his plans.
You don't have to be a tortured anti-villain to be complex. You just have to be relatively realistic.

All of the villains are pretty realistic. Some people are just evil for the sake of being evil and don't need any grand designs or Machiavellian schemes to be simply evil. Some people are just cruel and villainous because that is just who they are. Some people simply want power.

[Numbers]

Sorry, but the words "King's Quest" and "realistic" should never be uttered in the same sentence. Ever.

Also, I think most of the hate for Alexander comes from the fact that he's drawn like a pretty boy in the cutscenes and has a soft demeanor, as opposed to Graham, who looks like a linebacker and emits pure testosterone with every line of dialogue he has.

Also, Blackthorne, if you (and from what I can tell, most of IA) hate Alexander so much, why did IA remake KQ3, which, you know, has Alexander as the protagonist?

[darthkiwi]

Why does there have to be a motive? Why can't evil simply be evil for evil's sake?

Well, 'cause that's really really boring.

But I kind of agree with this:

Sorry, but the words "King's Quest" and "realistic" should never be uttered in the same sentence. Ever.

The villains are really just *there*; they're more plot devices than characters really.

But like I said above, I find those villains very boring.

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

Why does there have to be a motive? Why can't evil simply be evil for evil's sake?

Well, 'cause that's really really boring.

But I kind of agree with this:

Sorry, but the words "King's Quest" and "realistic" should never be uttered in the same sentence. Ever.

The villains are really just *there*; they're more plot devices than characters really.

But like I said above, I find those villains very boring.

Of the KQ villains, I like Mordack, Alhazred, Lolotte, Lucreto, and Malicia best, in order. Manannan never spooked me the way he does some and Hagatha is a non entity really and Dracula is pretty much the same. Dahlia is creepy in the SCI remake, though. I like her as a villain.

[darthkiwi]

Manannan terrified me, simply because I hadn't figured out when he would come back home. I was constantly worried he would *poof* onto the screen and kill me...

I get what you mean about Hagatha and Dracula. They were more part of the landscape than anything else. If you just play the game (no novels or companion) there's no indication that Hagatha is the villain at all.

[GrahamRocks!]

Which is why I love KQ2+!

[darthkiwi]

Which is why I love KQ2+!

Yes, I agree! It gave all the characters more, um, character and I thought it was a really good remake.

[Numbers]

KQ2+ should get some kind of award for "Remake That is Biggest Improvement Over Original."

How could anybody want to play the original KQ2, which is boring, frustrating and unimpressive, over KQ2+, which actually makes sense and plays really well?

[GrahamRocks!]

Dilandau3000's LP of it kept my interest.

[Farquhar]

Can't speak for everyone, but I've always felt KQ6 was the most accessible to newcomers of the series....

Some could argue that 7 is more so, but the cartoonish aspects turned some people off.

For me, it was my introduction to KQ which makes me rather biased however.

[darthkiwi]

Can't speak for everyone, but I've always felt KQ6 was the most accessible to newcomers of the series....

Some could argue that 7 is more so, but the cartoonish aspects turned some people off.

For me, it was my introduction to KQ which makes me rather biased however.

Good point. My first exposure to KQ was a pack of KQ1-6; I was very daunted by 1, sort of skipped over the others, but really liked 6. It just seemed to make more sense and was more what I expected from a game back when I was 8 or 9, I guess.

[Blackthorne]

Also, Blackthorne, if you (and from what I can tell, most of IA) hate Alexander so much, why did IA remake KQ3, which, you know, has Alexander as the protagonist?

I dislike the Alexander of King's Quest VI.  Don't care for the direction of the character, his demeanor or actions.  Alexander of King's Quest III was a different beast all together.  Like most AGI games, his character wasn't well defined, other than he was a slave boy who wished to escape.  AGI games often had vague characterizations so you could "insert yourself" as the hero.

I always enjoyed King's Quest III - hence the decision to remake it.

Bt

[Numbers]

Actually, it seems like Alexander's character is as pliable as anyone else's, given that KQ fan works often go their own direction with him. For instance, in IA's KQ3, he's a bit toughened up from his other appearances. In KQ3 Redux, he's more quiet like his KQ6 counterpart. In TSL, he's REALLY quiet, since he's, you know, in a coma.

Except during the dream sequence, when he yells "Cuh-SEEM-ahhhh!!!"

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

I dislike the Alexander of King's Quest VI.  Don't care for the direction of the character, his demeanor or actions.

Could you and Lamb explain why?

[GrahamRocks!]

That's the thing though, bt. This wasn't 1986 anymore! You couldn't have a blank slate for a character if you gave him a voice!

They had entered into a new era, so they had to make the characters grow in some way.

[Numbers]

Even if it meant having him say, "Zounds! A trap floor!"

[Blackthorne]

I dislike the Alexander of King's Quest VI.  Don't care for the direction of the character, his demeanor or actions.

Could you and Lamb explain why?

Cause he's a dope.


Bt

[crayauchtin]

Why does there have to be a motive? Why can't evil simply be evil for evil's sake?

Because a character's most defining characteristic is their motive. If your villain is evil for evil's sake, they're just a generic villain and there is nothing memorable about them. It's a generic villain. I'm not saying that it hasn't been done and been perfectly good, but why settle for "perfectly good"?

Manannan is a sadist, and he's lazy. The manual does say as much. He takes sadistic joy in seeing mankind suffer, and is too lazy to do his own house chores. So combine both and you can see why he'd kidnap boys and make slaves of them.

That's all in the manual though. Very little of him as a character makes it into the game.

Lolotte's motive was made clear in KQ4. She wanted to control Tamir totally, if not the world. She wanted to use the power of Pandora's Box to increase her own power and increase evil thoroughout the world.

But why did she steal Genesta's talisman? Genesta says it was out of jealousy. And how does marrying her son off to Rosella factor into this, since we know it wasn't done out of love (given the way we kill her). She's not working off of a cohesive motive or scheme here.

Hagatha's motive is the classic one of an old and ugly crone being jealous and contemptuous of the most beautiful girl in the Kingdom.

That's why she kidnapped Valanice, which isn't mentioned in the game even once. And she's a cannibal so that explains the chasing after you. The nightingale? No explanation is given anywhere.

Why overthink it? Only a year has passed between KQ3 and KQ5. Perhaps it took him so long to find out. Simple as that.

He can teleport though.

All of the villains are pretty realistic. Some people are just evil for the sake of being evil and don't need any grand designs or Machiavellian schemes to be simply evil. Some people are just cruel and villainous because that is just who they are. Some people simply want power.

"Evil for the sake of being evil" is not realistic. That's pretty much my entire point. It's taking a "character" and turning them into a set piece or a plot device. It's boring, it's poor storytelling, it's poor world building. Why would you want that when you could have quality instead?

[Numbers]

I dislike the Alexander of King's Quest VI.  Don't care for the direction of the character, his demeanor or actions.

Could you and Lamb explain why?

Cause he's a dope.


Bt

I, for one, approve of this logic.

[br305893]

It has a better plot line than any of the previous games and also the voice acting far exceeds that of KQ5.