The worst game you've ever played....

[Rosella]

Oh man, I FFVIII could not have been made more for the way I play games. I can see how it would've been a miserable experience for you but I stockpile everything like crazy and I loved that game so much.

[KatieHal]

I could never get that far in FF8 because of the damn summons. I do not want to watch your 1-minute long animation, I'm in a timed sequence here, you jerks!

[Lambonius]

FFXII is the best post-16-bit Final Fantasy game.  There--I said it.

[GrahamRocks!]

*shrug* If you say so, Lamb.

[Rosella]

I loved FFXII so much.

[Lambonius]

*shrug* If you say so, Lamb.

Heh...I was just making light of the fact that FFXII was very divisive back when it came out--it was the first major Final Fantasy game to break some of the traditional formulas for Final Fantasy gameplay (like random battles, for example), and for that it got a lot of flack.  However, I would argue that pretty much every change it made was for the better.  Not to mention the fact that the story kicked f***ing ass, and the main characters were all much more memorable (and MUCH less annoying) than those in the previous big FF game on PS2, the much lauded FFX (which I couldn't stand.)  And last but not least, FFXII was probably the single best looking game on the PS2.  Just a stunningly beautiful, deep, secret-filled game.  Glorious.  But, it still gets crap for changing up the formula, and it never quite makes the Final Fantasy "best" lists, for some strange reason.  It's got to be one of the most underrated games of the PS2 generation.

[Damar]

As for what happened to Valenice.

I mean, if it was just subtle, I'd have expected some know-it-all to put all us clueless morons in our place pretty early on.

No, I think it was specifically set up as a mystery for later and to put pressure on Graham to finish his mission. I in no way think it was meant to be solvable as soon as it occurred.

The Subtly comes from the fact that they just didn't tell you and didn't connect the dots when they did the reveal.

As well the assumption that she was under a spell was also a valid one.

I mean, if it was just subtle, I'd have expected some know-it-all to put all us clueless morons in our place pretty early on.

Well there are two clues early on.

If you click on Valanece with Graham he will talk about how strong she is, as well he has dialog with Cassima about the fact that she could usually equal him when it came to dealing with hardship. As well the words of her actions describe a delirious state.

It was very clear early on that what was happening to Valanece was clearly abnormal. Yet until you knew further you could just assume she was written out of character.

Mind you I did something you didn't. I played all four chapters back to back, and when you have a eagle eye view of the story as a while the Valanice Arc is pretty much whole... and ultimately that is what the chapters are, sections of a single game split up.

And I still maintain that episodic releases are terrible and break up the flow of the game, destroy tension, and invite people to make cynical assumptions that it's all about trying to squeeze out as much money as possible (and yeah, I know obviously that's not the case with TSL since it's free.  But the episodic release is still modeled on games you have to pay for.)  I honestly do believe, apart from any complaining about characters being out of character, overwrought dialogue, melodrama, plot twists, the narrator, apart from any of those complaints whether they're justified or not, I would put the episodic release as possibly the biggest problem with this particular fan game (apart from maybe that ridiculous RPG fight, but not getting into that again).  I really think it hurts the game that much.

Regarding Valanice, I actually pulled up Cesar's explanation.  Here it is:

Ok, I'll come out and blatantly say what happened during that Episode 2 section.

[spoiler]Yes, she is, she's going through some serious stuff, remembering her origins, having opened Pandora's Box, etc. However, she wasn't trying to jump in Episode 2, she was being screwed over by Shadrack in the dreamworld, and that was reflected upon the real world. If you remember the conversation with Saladin in episode 3, he mentions how Valanice was "talking to someone who wasn't there, pleading to be left in peace" In the real world, she was on the balcony of the Green Isles, but in the dreamworld, what she was really seeing, she was just leaning on the balcony of the tower, the same way that she leaned over at the beginning of Episode 3 when she was a young girl. She didn't know this was actually happening to her as well in the real world as she was sleep-walking-- Notice how she doesn't notice Graham until he grabs her and brings her out of the trance/dream? Shadrack was showing to her all that Graham later saw in Episode 3, in the tower section. That's why she crumbled in Graham's arms and couldn't really say a word once she woke up. She was really disturbed as her memories were triggering. Later in the Episode 4 scene with Graham, she's shown at a loss, BUT this scene is crucial because within it, because of Graham's words, she makes the decision that marks the beginning of her journey. [/spoiler]

See, I'd always assumed it was a spell for all the reasons you listed, but then with the Pandora's Box scene, there didn't seem to be an actual spell, making me second guess all that because now they seemed to be saying that she really was in despair because she realized what she did.  But that explanation above apparently puts the whole thing on her just not realizing that she wasn't in the dream world back in Episode 3.  It's convoluted and unclear.  That's all I'm saying.  But this has really gone off topic from the main post and TSL is most certainly not the worst game I've ever played.  Really, I do enjoy it.  I just think it's flawed.  Anyway, if you want, we can take this to the Episode 4 feedback topic so that the mods don't get a headache here with off topic debate (and that was certainly not intended to sound like a "let's take this outside and settle it" challenge.)

[stika]

Worst game I ever played: Final Fantasy 8.  I tend to go heavy on spellcasters in most of the RPGs I play, and that game was definitely not for magic.  The story was also confusing, the characters were irritating at the least, and I'm still baffled that Laguna managed to become el Presidente in any sense.

I know that Final Fantasy 13 is worse, but I'm avoiding that one like the Plague.

Believe it or not that was actually my first Final Fantasy, so I hold a bit of a soft spot for it.

With that said, yeah the magic system was sooooo tedious. But I've seen worse (Ultima IV anyone?)

[Bludshot]

For the life of me I could not get into Bioshock, I liked the first two minutes and then it just started going downhill.

[Neonivek]

I still maintain that episodic releases are terrible and break up the flow of the game, destroy tension, and invite people to make cynical assumptions that it's all about trying to squeeze out as much money as possible

Ohh no, I dislike episodic games. Everytime I finally get into one... BOOM it is over and the next one cannot start where the last one left off and thus has its own arc.

The major limitation of episodes is that they cannot maintain a single arc.

Add in that the largest provider of episodic games, Telltalegames, are made to be as easy as possible... And you get a problem.

---

As for another worst game I ever played... Roguelike time!

Nethack

I know what some of you may be thinking: "But Neonivek, Nethack is GOOD"

Yet my experience with it is as such: Eventually I get to a point where a secret wall won't open and I starve to death.

As well Nethack suffers from what I call "Wikipedia Roguelike" in that you are outright expected to look up info you could not have possibly have found out in game to finish it.

[stika]

I actually never played Nethack, but I do usually like roguelike games, though I never liked Dwarf's Fortress

[Neonivek]

I actually never played Nethack, but I do usually like roguelike games, though I never liked Dwarf's Fortress

You will probably like Nethack. I hate it, it is the worst roguelike I ever played but that is just because from my perspective it is terrible.

As for Dwarf Fortress, give it time... It has a LOOOOONG way to go.

[snabbott]

Ohh no, I dislike episodic games. Everytime I finally get into one... BOOM it is over and the next one cannot start where the last one left off and thus has its own arc.

The major limitation of episodes is that they cannot maintain a single arc.

I don't know... If it's done properly, each episode has its own arc that contributes to the overall story arc - just like a TV season or a series of books.

[Numbers]

I think the Cognition episodes do a pretty good job of sticking to one story arc that contributes to the overall plot.

The TSL episodes, of course, are all about one single story arc, so you only get the story in chunks.

[Neonivek]

I don't know... If it's done properly, each episode has its own arc that contributes to the overall story arc - just like a TV season or a series of books.

Well "Back to the Future" wasn't a bad game but it suffered this the worst.

Each game had to have its own "Smashing ending" and "Smashing start" to the point where the main arc is just not all that interesting because each "episode" has to maintain it.

Now let me go into a TV show that actually had Arcs.

Now this anime I like had a three episode arc (actually longer, but these are the three I am handling).

The first was somber and was setting up the emotional tone of the next three episodes but wasn't too exciting, the second ends with the big reveal, and the third is the consequences.

Even television shows can fudge the "excitement" of episodes to go to the next ones and can hold things back for others.

But the issue with the "episodic game" formula is that because each episode is sold individually each episode has to be THE GREATEST EPISODE EVER! and be a game onto themselves.

Thus a single arc cannot be maintained.

As for Cognition, I cannot comment on it. I mostly have my dislike of episodic games from TellTale...

Wallace and Grommit though held up but that was because it was an episodic game that didn't have a main arc. Sure there were developments that progressed game to game, but there was no grand unifying storyline.

Silver Lining also escapes this by having each game occur one after the other without feeling like each one is competing with the other (because the game isn't being sold individually) thus when I play them back to back I don't get whip lash because each one moves smoothly into the next. Each game is about what it means for the main arc and not "what each game means for its individual story".