Author Topic: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t  (Read 26986 times)

Offline Rock Knight

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Silver Lining Forever!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2015, 08:30:25 AM »
Still better than Codename: Iceman.

Nope.
Let me ask you a serious question.
If it didn't have the King's Quest label slapped on it, and the names of beloved characters in it,
Would you be even remotely interested in it? Would the game jump out at you and totally remind you of King's Quest?
For example, Torin's Passage was basically called a KQ clone in its day. Let's say the name of the game was simply "A Knight to Remember" with no connections to KQ - Would you have even the slightest knowledge or interest or passionate devotion to it? There's nothing in it that's remotely King's Questy.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2015, 08:32:50 AM »
*rolls eyes* Why do you care about this so much if you hate it?

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2015, 10:43:57 AM »
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/TOG_universe

Oh hey, speak of the devil. Now I know what I'm going to be reading today.
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2015, 11:04:49 AM »
Thanks for the article, Jack.

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2015, 02:09:12 PM »
I love that he is using MOE goblins as an argument that the little stone ones are non canonical.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2015, 02:25:39 PM »
Yeah, we all know how iconic MoE's bestiary is...
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2015, 02:30:49 PM »
I like the new Goblins, tbh. Heck, I actually have a theory about them.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

The comments about Graham in there bug me the most. Did he not remember the "Well, my father was a knight, and his father was a knight, and his father was a dentist, but his father was a knight. My family has a long history of protecting crowns." (It took me ages to get that pun) line? And just because he can't swim in chapter 1 doesn't mean he can't ever learn to swim. That's probably part of his training (provided he didn't already have the skill) as a knight. I'm also annoyed over the fact that they don't seem to get that AKTR takes place (or the bulk of the game anyway) BEFORE KQ1.

I can't take the Mom Cracker thing seriously. XD

I know that "Cracker" is an old and obvious KQ joke, but that doesn't mean that's his last name. Could be any other name that starts with "Cr-" although if that's not a running gag, then I'm going to be very disappointed.

Apparently Baggins doesn't understand that the "unpronounceable name" of Graham's homeland (which I will adamantly argue isn't Llewdor because otherwise Graham would have reacted to hearing that Amaya's from there originally) was meant to be a joke.

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2015, 02:54:59 PM »
I especially like this entry regarding the moat monsters:

"Two things this means in this new storyline there ever was only one "Moat Monster" (there are several in KQ1SCI described as 'moat monsters', that can be on screen at once), and that its not supposed to be there, and only been introduced late into Edward's reign (as one of those disasters that befell his kingdom due to the loss of the kingdom's greatest treasure, the Magic Mirror (as opposed to the three treasures). At least according to the novel series, they had been introduced by an early king of Daventry, so early on after the founding of the kingdom."

Just...where do I even start?
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline Rock Knight

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Silver Lining Forever!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2015, 03:03:28 PM »
In defense of the game, while I like the novels as cool supplementary material, even Roberta kinda hated them...They're not especially like "canon". She read one of the three and didn't even bother reading the rest...I mean one of the novels describes Graham as blonde!

Look, I don't take Baggins' pedantic attitude toward the game. The KQ lore was never concretely nailed down. There's some leeway. My bias against the game comes from the emphasis on Disney-esque high fantasy elements, the storybook feel, the lack of any horror elements, the puns and the characterizations. Numbers' review didn't "brainwash" me but it opened my eyes to a lot of what was wrong with the game. The KQ games had a certain feel - a certain mix of light and dark, a tongue in cheek style of humor that was very subtle, they veered between kiddie and very dark...I just felt like this game felt just, really, really out of place. The dialogue is way too modern for my tastes. I mean the phrases: "Pissed off", "Sorry not sorry", and so on, have no place in a KQ game; they don't even have any place in a Medieval based adventure game or a family friendly game - things like that took me out of the game completely. And just the liberal borrowing of The Princess Bride's plot really turned me off. The humor in the KQ games - even KQ7 - was much more subtle, tongue in cheek, cheesy. The humor in this game reminded me a lot more of Monkey Island and TellTale's over the top, really child friendly, humor...

And while there are dark moments and the second chapter seems darker....It's Disney darkness. Not Mordack's Island darkness or Land of the Dead style darkness. Not Lovecraftian horror. I don't care really for the bends and twists in the lore....It's just the KQ games as different as all were from each other, each was memorable. And the lack of fairy tales, mythology and beasts of fable really irked me - that was the heart of the entire series, even 8.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2015, 03:56:30 PM »
I scratched my head at the Moat Monster one too. Where was it ever said in-game that it was causing trouble for the guards or whatever???

I also naturally assume that Gwen's reaction to it means the either it's dead by that time period or Graham got rid of it by then. Seeing as it's supposed to keep out intruders to the castle, they probably don't need them anymore. Why would anyone attack a kingdom that has a Magic Shield and Mirror? You'd not only be protected easily but you'd also see the enemy coming, after all.

The thing is, RK, not only do I not believe you when you say that Numbers's review didn't "brainwash" you, because you wil. Not. Let. It. Go. That you think this game sucks. But Disney can go really dark when it wants to. I never found Mordack's Island all that creepy tbh. The Land of the Dead? Oh certainly, xylophone song aside. But really KQ and QFG have ALWAYS had puns. It has a storybook feel, I like to think anyway, because of the premise: Grahampa is telling stories to his granddaughter. "Pissed off" never bugged me. "Sorry not sorry" I can understand though. But I love how you bring up "Modern language shouldn't be in a Medieval style game!" and yet look at what QFG does, which is in a similar mix of settings. The "liberal borrowing" of the Princess Bride plot? Yes. Wallace Shawn is in this game. Yes. There is the Duel of Wits that's an obvious homage. Is there, say, an equivalent to Inigo? Wesley? Buttercup? Is there a sword fight with elaborate techniques and complimenting banter? A tragic backstory involving a man with six fingers killing a father in front of his young son and scarring him for life? What about The Machine that zaps away your life year by year? No. If it were borrowing from The Princess Bride, I'd imagine that the story wouldn't involve "This is how I became a Knight of Daventry!" but "This is the story all about how I rescued my true love from a dangerous evil Prince! Oh, Gwendolyn, it was a long, hard journey involving peril at every turn, but in the end it was worth it..."

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2015, 05:05:09 PM »
Mordack's Island was painted beautifully, with nice, sinister and demonic architecture. It was just the puzzles involving the maze and it being mandatory that you get caught by that blue monster once and the whole cheese debacle that killed that section of the game for me. Looked nice, played like crap. Like a lot of current video games out there, actually. For the record, the Underworld in KQ6 was never creepy to me. Like GrahamRocks said, that xylophone sequence ruined it. I'd say the darkest game in the series was definitely MoE, for obvious reasons--decapitations, gory corpses hung on walls, a pervasive feeling that nowhere you go is safe, hostiles everywhere you look, and a truly haunting soundtrack, especially for the opening level in Daventry.

But if you're going for the darkest "canon" game in the series (given that MoE is usually regarded as a spinoff rather than a true sequel), KQ4 all the way. Even with primitive graphics, it manages to convey tension when you're swimming in the ocean, walking through the empty Tamir landscape never knowing when that Ogre might show up, conversing with civilian characters who have fallen on hard times given Tamir is a crapsack world, being forced to do the villain's bidding, evil trees that sometimes grab you immediately when you see them, a minimalist soundtrack that blares unexpectedly whenever your life is in danger, nightfall, the quagmire swamp, sneaking through the Ogre's house and later Lolotte's castle, and last but not least, the troll cave, which is kind of like the adventure equivalent of Slenderman--you're wandering through utter blackness, and once the bad guy's seen you, you're already dead, and the rest is just details.

Anyone who says Disney can't do dark material has apparently never watched the Hellfire scene from Hunchback of Notre Dame. Or the entire climax of the movie, for that matter.
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline Jack Stryker

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
  • Gender: Male
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2015, 06:03:30 PM »
Or the ending of Oliver and Company; in which not only does Sykes get slammed by a train, but his two Dobermans both fall onto the tracks and get electrocuted.  On screen.

Also, there are some bits of modern speak in Tangled, and yet that movie became a huge success.

Offline Rock Knight

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Silver Lining Forever!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2015, 06:25:18 PM »
Mordack's Island was painted beautifully, with nice, sinister and demonic architecture. It was just the puzzles involving the maze and it being mandatory that you get caught by that blue monster once and the whole cheese debacle that killed that section of the game for me. Looked nice, played like crap. Like a lot of current video games out there, actually. For the record, the Underworld in KQ6 was never creepy to me. Like GrahamRocks said, that xylophone sequence ruined it. I'd say the darkest game in the series was definitely MoE, for obvious reasons--decapitations, gory corpses hung on walls, a pervasive feeling that nowhere you go is safe, hostiles everywhere you look, and a truly haunting soundtrack, especially for the opening level in Daventry.

But if you're going for the darkest "canon" game in the series (given that MoE is usually regarded as a spinoff rather than a true sequel), KQ4 all the way. Even with primitive graphics, it manages to convey tension when you're swimming in the ocean, walking through the empty Tamir landscape never knowing when that Ogre might show up, conversing with civilian characters who have fallen on hard times given Tamir is a crapsack world, being forced to do the villain's bidding, evil trees that sometimes grab you immediately when you see them, a minimalist soundtrack that blares unexpectedly whenever your life is in danger, nightfall, the quagmire swamp, sneaking through the Ogre's house and later Lolotte's castle, and last but not least, the troll cave, which is kind of like the adventure equivalent of Slenderman--you're wandering through utter blackness, and once the bad guy's seen you, you're already dead, and the rest is just details.

Anyone who says Disney can't do dark material has apparently never watched the Hellfire scene from Hunchback of Notre Dame. Or the entire climax of the movie, for that matter.

Pixar dark then, you get what I mean. The dark moment of a Nicktoon. Not Lovecraftian horror or what you've just perfectly described in KQ4. There's a certain psychological underpinning to the dark parts of the KQ games.

I mean look at this from KQ5:


It looks like a sick, Lovecraftian, Satanic altar to some dark God.

Cheesy puzzles aside, the music and atmosphere conveyed by the backgrounds and music in the Mordack segment of the game add an undercurrent of at least, Eldrich uneasiness, that isn't present in this game (or in KQ7 for that matter).

This game doesn't have that sort of, creepy vibe to it, that Eldrich horror vibe in any part of it.

As to GrahamRocks: You bring up QFG as an example of a Sierra series that used modern lingo in a medieval game, but I'm not comparing this game to a QFG game. I'm talking about the original KQ games, which this game is supposed to be the successor to.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2015, 06:46:23 PM »
*silent glare*

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2015, 06:58:36 PM »
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2015, 07:17:40 PM »
No, because the way you're describing it, it sounds like Pixar is strictly benign and kiddish. They make films for everyone. I cannot remember a single moment of "Lovecraftian horror" in KQ. I can name drop Avoozl, but that's a different series. Nothing in KQ1 or 2 frightens me, besides the "Graham Cracker" death in the EGA KQ1 (it's Graham's face that does it for me). KQ3 has Manannan breathing down your neck. KQ4 has what Numbers described, which I think he's brought up before. And so on.

Did you... not even read the article you posted originally on the first page? They're giving you what you want. They're raising the stakes, they're making things darker in tone. Graham is older, more mature. He's King and a former Knight, so he kinda has to be. I honestly didn't mind the lighthearted tone in the first episode, HOWEVER, what I expect to happen is for things to get darker as the storyline goes along. Not immensely bleak that there's no real reason to care about anything anymore kind of dark, but more like TSL kind of dark.

Yeah, I like TSL and I like this game. Both are KQ, both are completely opposite in terms of tone, and yet I like both.

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1312
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2015, 07:37:33 PM »
No, because the way you're describing it, it sounds like Pixar is strictly benign and kiddish. They make films for everyone. I cannot remember a single moment of "Lovecraftian horror" in KQ. I can name drop Avoozl, but that's a different series. Nothing in KQ1 or 2 frightens me, besides the "Graham Cracker" death in the EGA KQ1 (it's Graham's face that does it for me). KQ3 has Manannan breathing down your neck. KQ4 has what Numbers described, which I think he's brought up before. And so on.

See? Explain your stance. Don't type in crap like *silent glare* and expect that to be sufficient. This is much better.
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2015, 07:42:55 PM »
Sorry.

You never answered my question, RK.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 08:02:53 PM by GrahamRocks! »

Offline Rock Knight

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Silver Lining Forever!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2015, 07:48:20 PM »
Sorry.

You never answered my question, RK.

What question?

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2193
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: King's Quest Episode II: Revenge of the Sh*t
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2015, 12:20:28 AM »
*rolls eyes* Why do you care about this so much if you hate it?
That.

You're doing that thing again and I no longer trust you, because I know you'll snapback on me eventually.