Author Topic: Harry Potter  (Read 26301 times)

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2004, 05:31:19 PM »
Yeah... me too. Arrogance is the most I can come up with. Maybe a lil prejudice too, but thats mere speculation. The few cases where the Big V shows up he certainly doesnt seem to care much about the whole mudblood / pure blood thing. Ahh well... One more example that she couldve done a better job on him...  :P

Well, I'm not done typing my notes out yet...just got through with Book 3...4 and 5 might take a while...but there is the question: Why did Voldemort want to kill Harry Potter??  In Book 3, it is mentioned that the Potters were being watched since a year before they were killed...OR since Harry's birth.  In Book 5, I think it was referred to because of the prophecy (won't elaborate further for those who haven't read the books...but look at the parallels between Neville and Harry).  But it's not completely clear...and may not be until the seventh book.
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Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2004, 09:47:35 PM »
The Prophecy bit, I think, is a very clever plot device JK threw in in the 5th book... It definitely explains why Harry and his parents were important to the Big V, aside from Harry's parents being big Dumbledoor supporters. To be honest, its a good thing she did add that... otherwise it logically would seem a little too convenient.

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Offline Jeysie

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2004, 08:12:50 AM »
Ahh. I must admit, I feel compelled to add two cents...

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The prophecy's been around in mention at least since Book 3, Fatali.

At any rate... in regards to LV, I think Fatali and Shadow, you're forgetting that for one, we see all the happenings in the books from almost entirely Harry's POV, and two, up until the Department of Mysteries battle LV was having to lay a bit low and move carefully.

It is quite possible that LV was doing stuff behind the scenes, but story-wise we were focused on the Ministry of Magic's doings and Harry's dreams because that's what *Harry* knew and was focused with. The Order hasn't told him everything... and thus, hasn't told us everything. I think we'll have to wait. Now that the matter's been blown wide-open, LV's inner circle is all but decimated, and he's lost the most obvious way of finding out about the prophecy, I think that both LV will become more overt with his actions, and that Harry will get more news about any going-ons. LV seemed mostly concerned at first with gathering as many old allies back to himself as possible, and trying to get information about Harry (who he likely perceives to be his biggest threat).

Besides, considering the title of the next book, and the fact that Rowling has claimed that things will tie back into some parts of Chamber of Secrets somehow, blood status probably will gain new prominence.

Then there's a host of important questions and characters...

Neville has been gaining in abilities throughout the books, and he has a status as the other prophecy possibility. I think he'll become very relevant as time goes on.

I think Luna may be important as well, because I don't think Rowling would have created her just to toss her aside so quickly. True, she served a purpose in Book 5 due to her father running the Quibbler, and to fighting at the DOM, but I still think she has more relevance left in her. Plus she provides an interesting contrast to Hermione.

Speaking of new characters, Tonks is even more of a puzzle... she's a new character in the "good guy inner circle", but she just seems like a pair of extra hands right now. (And clutzy hands, at that.) I don't know if Tonks herself will be important, but that innate power of hers very likely will, I suspect.

Then there's Lupin... a main character with a lot of questions surrounding him.  I mean, we get the impression from the Marauder's Map, Snape's Pensieve, and other tales, that the four "Marauders" were pretty close. Yet in PoA, Sirius says that he (and possibly James, too, it's implied I think) thought Lupin was the spy/traitor. What happened there? Was it just LV causing dissension in the ranks and placing Peter in good position? Was it something to do with Lily? (I think Lupin had feelings for her, personally...) Something else entirely? And what was Lupin doing in those 12 years between the Potters' deaths and showing up on the Hogwarts train as the new DADA professor? Inquiring minds want to know! I think there's more to him than just being the voice of reason and moral support.

Snape, of course, is a big enigma. There's a lot of questions surrounding him... why did he become a Death Eater? Why did he leave them and become a spy for the "good guys"? Was he (is he) in fact a double agent? Why does Dumbledore trust Snape, and why won't he let Snape teach DADA classes regularly? What sort of tasks is Snape doing for the Order now? I think that all might be important.

Sure, it's pretty obvious that Dumbledore is important. But I'm curious at the fact that everyone claims Dumbledore is the only wizard LV was ever afraid of. Is it true? If so, why? Simply because Dumbledore is a powerful wizard, or is it deeper than that? And is Dumbledore the reason why Hogwarts was never touched during LV's first "reign of terror"?

What's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her? She knows more than she's let on, obviously.

What is in that locked door in the DOM? (I have my theory, which is the same theory most people seem to have.) Whatever it is, I think it will be important to Harry and the battle ahead.

Speaking of the battle, what form will the "final confrontation" take? I don't think it will be a simple direct "Battle of the Wands". Aside from the fact that LV and Harry can't battle directly with their wands, Harry obviously doesn't like the idea of killing anyone, even LV. I think that locked door power will have something to do with it.

Considering what I think that power is, I'm reminded of the saying that I believe goes "The best way to defeat an enemy is to make him your friend." Oh, now, I don't think LV will ever turn good... even as a teenager he was corrupted, and if LV was given the chance for full redemption, he wouldn't take it. But is there any redemption at all for Tom Riddle (and Peter)? Will Harry necessarily defeat LV by killing him?

(cough) OK, I guess that was more than two cents.

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Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2004, 09:22:21 AM »
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At any rate... in regards to LV, I think Fatali and Shadow, you're forgetting that for one, we see all the happenings in the books from almost entirely Harry's POV

Fair enough, but a 'good' bad guy should be distinguishable from a standard archtypical bad guy even in a brief five minute confrontation. Lucius, for instance, has had about as much 'air-time' as LV and far less background yet he seems the more interesting and complex of the two. My vote stands... Lucius should betray LV and become the main bad guy.

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Besides, considering the title of the next book,

Whats the title?

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Neville has been gaining in abilities throughout the books, and he has a status as the other prophecy possibility. I think he'll become very relevant as time goes on.

The question is, relevant in what way... According to the prophecy, Neville cant possibly be LV's opposite number. If Snape ever becomes a traitor, Neville with his new-found ability could defeat him in combat for a bit of irony...
To be honest, I think Neville's most important characteristic isnt that he was 'prophecy material' but that out of all the others, hes the only one that had his parents brutally tortured. From a psychological perspective, this makes him unique.

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I think Luna may be important as well, because I don't think Rowling would have created her just to toss her aside so quickly. True, she served a purpose in Book 5 due to her father running the Quibbler

Im not so sure. She's interesting and 'different,' so JK will probably keep her around... but as a background character, no more.

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Tonks is even more of a puzzle... she's a new character in the "good guy inner circle", but she just seems like a pair of extra hands right now.

Again, I doubt she'll ever play more of a role than a minor one. You've got to remember, not every character that's named in a novel has some deep, important role... And since most of the story is about Harry's development... its quite possible Tonk's role wont be anymore than a sweet, silly outside support. (which, on its own terms, is quite important)

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Then there's Lupin...

Youve said about as much as any of us can say on the matter. I say he's a good guy with a checkered past... The fun comes into play when we examine the checkers...

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Snape, of course, is a big enigma. There's a lot of questions surrounding him... why did he become a Death Eater? Why did he leave them and become a spy for the "good guys"? Was he (is he) in fact a double agent?

Snape is a tough one... In the end, I think he'll turn out to be loyal to Dumbledoor/Harry... He's a good example of redemption and an even better example of how we can misjudge someone... I think Harry has some serious apologizing to do to Snape.
And... I think, no one is more qualified to lead the Order than he is, if Dumbledoor were to die... Now, that would be an interesting twist.

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Sure, it's pretty obvious that Dumbledore is important. But I'm curious at the fact that everyone claims Dumbledore is the only wizard LV was ever afraid of. Is it true? If so, why? Simply because Dumbledore is a powerful wizard, or is it deeper than that?

You know... I dont think LV fears him because he's powerful. Oh, he is that too, but more importantly, he has an incredible talent for perception... He knew what LV was up to from day one... That makes him very formidible... His role towards Harry as guide / guardian / positive support is, perhaps, the most important role he plays. Take away Gandalf, and the Fellowship despairs. The same would apply to Dumbledoor.

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What's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her?

Good question. JK could take her in a number of different directions. Im not even going to begin to speculate.

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What is in that locked door in the DOM?

My memory is a little fuzzy on this... What door?

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Will Harry necessarily defeat LV by killing him?

No idea... but if prophecy is true, LV will die in the conflict... (or else his opposite number will)

Alright... Im done dissecting...

*waits for Jeysie to post her next 20 page essay*  8)

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Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2004, 09:32:10 AM »
CONTINUING SPOILER
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What's Petunia got to do with all of this? What did Dumbledore's Howler mean to her? She knows more than she's let on, obviously.


We need to remember that Lily was Petunia's sister.  Lily went home every summer and that's how Petunia learned about witches, wizards, and the Wizarding World.  How much she learned, we don't know.  But she knew about Dementors.  And how often will a witch or wizard tell their Muggle family about Dementors just in passing?  

Also, I believe in Book 5 Dumbledore explained WHY Harry has to go to the Dursley's each summer, even if it's just for a little while.  And I believe that this is what the Howler was about.  I don't remember what it said exactly, but I think that's what Dumbledore was referring to.  

Now the question is...WHY does Petunia care??  From the previous books, it seems pretty clear that the Dursley's hate Harry.  Does Petunia actually love Harry in some way...even if it's just because he's her sister's son?  I know there's TONS more I could add to this because my mind's going into a hundred different scenerios...but I'll let you guys respond :P
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Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2004, 09:34:41 AM »
Possibly she knows the consequences of Harry's demise. Her life might be directly linked to his in some weird way.

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Offline Drunken Chinchilla

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2004, 10:38:51 AM »
yay discussion has started proper!

Ok well lots of things I was going to say has already been bought up by Jeysie so I'll just state whats left.

I think theres actually alot of reasons to be found for LV's evilness in Chamber of secrets that will be highlighted in Book 6 (Title: The half Blood Prince). Also remember that LV is actually not a pureblood  and was bought up by his father (Lol im not 100% of this my mind may be playing tricks) who was a muggle. So far I don't think much has been said about his mother...possibly more reasons hiding there?

Ok the title of the next book. JK has already said that the half blood prince is not harry or LV. But what she has also been saying is that the identity has already been raised in Chamber of Secrets but we probably wouldn't think of the person (Got all this from her personal site btw).

roffle now the rest of the stuff i was going to say has gone out my head  >:( I shall post more when it returns!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 10:39:24 AM by Drunken Chinchilla »
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Offline Mary Jane

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2004, 10:50:14 AM »
Maybe its the janitor, Angus Fitch (or whatever his name was.)  IIRC they did talk about him a lot in Chamberr of Secrets.  Didn't they find out he couldn't do magic in that one?
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Offline Jeysie

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2004, 12:39:35 PM »
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Fair enough, but a 'good' bad guy should be distinguishable from a standard archtypical bad guy even in a brief five minute confrontation. Lucius, for instance, has had about as much 'air-time' as LV and far less background yet he seems the more interesting and complex of the two. My vote stands... Lucius should betray LV and become the main bad guy.

So far, we've seen two things from LV that might be part of his downfall:

One, he seems to prefer having other people do his dirty work for him. Indeed, he seems to have an emotional need to have devoted followers, which might stem from his upbringing, I'd guess.

Two, as Dumbledore stated, I think, LV lets his arrogance get in the way of his intelligence, and has a tendency to overlook small details as "unimportant".

I will say I like the idea of Lucius overthrowing LV.

Im not so sure. She's interesting and 'different,' so JK will probably keep her around... but as a background character, no more.

Why bother introducing her into Harry's "inner circle", then? She could have simply been used to facilitate Harry's Quibbler article, then relegated to the background like the rest of the DA. Instead, she "gets" to go to the DOM battle.

Again, I doubt she'll ever play more of a role than a minor one. You've got to remember, not every character that's named in a novel has some deep, important role... And since most of the story is about Harry's development... its quite possible Tonk's role wont be anymore than a sweet, silly outside support. (which, on its own terms, is quite important)

Well, I'm not sure Tonks herself is important, as I said... I'm more curious as to why Rowling would go to the trouble of establishing the Metamorphagus power, especially since it's unlearnable.

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What is in that locked door in the DOM?
My memory is a little fuzzy on this... What door?

There's a locked door where in the DOM there is a room that "has a force more wonderful and terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It's also the most mysterious. This power Harry possesses in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all."

*waits for Jeysie to post her next 20 page essay*  8)

Nah, I said most of it already. Although, I did manage to forget a couple things...

Percy! Unfortunately for the Weasleys, I think Percy is being a git completely of his own accord. I just wonder how far he'll take it. He's a pure-blood, he's a stickler for "just following orders", and he can be tricked.

And there was something else I forgot, but I have managed to promptly forget it again. Oops.

Koko: What I meant was, I think Dumbledore's holding something over her head, and I'm curious as to what it is. I'm not willing to give Petunia enough benefit of a doubt to think she'd stick her neck in harm's way solely out of familial love.

Renfrew: Filch is a Squib... meaning he has magical parents, but no powers himself. I'm not certain that there's anything more to Filch than what we've already seen of him, though.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Offline FataliOmega

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2004, 12:49:27 PM »
My best guess is that the half Blood Prince turns out to be Draco Malfoy... After all, didnt Hagred say that theres not a wizard out there who wasnt half blood, or less...? And Draco has got all the arrogance and the 'high and mighty' attitude that a prince would ever need! Fatali has spoken.  ;)

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Offline Jeysie

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2004, 02:00:52 PM »
Otay, my brain cells bumped together and reproduced the second point I wanted to make.

Is there any major significance to the fact that LV chose to go after Harry and not Neville? It's possible he intended to kill them both, but he still went after Harry first. I personally would choose to kill the person I found to be the biggest threat first.

Also, in Harry's Dementor flashbacks, he hears LV telling Lily that she doesn't have to die, if she steps aside and lets him kill Harry. Just simple villian posturing for the sake of making his task easier, or something deeper?

As for who the Half-Blood Prince is... my pet pie-in-the-sky theory is Snape. :D But the idea of Draco is interesting. I'm reminded of an online friend of mine complaining that so far we haven't gotten any Slytherin characters who aren't just nothing but common bullies.

Oh, and I wonder if Hufflepuff will ever have more significance in things. There might as well be three Hogwarts houses, for all that Hufflepuff is mentioned! Are they going to be the near-invisible house throughout the rest of the series?

Peace & Luv, Liz

Offline Storm

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2004, 03:21:34 PM »
*Sees all the spoiler warnings*

*Runs the heck out of the thread*


Definately not the place for those who are yet to read all the books and form a solid opinion of them :o
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 03:27:17 PM by Storm »
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Offline dew7

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2004, 10:24:04 PM »
Any idea when book 6 will come out --- rumors perhaps  -- :>
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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #93 on: October 02, 2004, 01:07:01 AM »
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In response to Jeysie's post:

I think Hufflepuff will have something to do with the books later on. I think there's very little that doesn't have to do with anything else...for instance, Rowling has said that Chamber of Secrets really gives you clues as to what will be going on later, and that it is very important. (Though I've read it twice since then and can't think why). Wasn't Cedric Diggory from Hufflepuff?

Maybe it will be that the Hufflepuffs somehow come out as champions in the end.

-Rune

P.S. On the Harry Potter site I was sorted into Hufflepuff first...then Slytherin when I changed my mind and said I'd keep the gold. >:)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2004, 01:07:27 AM by rune800 »

Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #94 on: October 02, 2004, 11:42:26 AM »
Some interesting theories you lot are throwing around here (good on you Jeysie, I love you theories of life and the universe and now, Harry Potter!)  ;)
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #95 on: October 02, 2004, 02:36:19 PM »
Are you becoming more interested in the HP books now?? :P
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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #96 on: October 02, 2004, 02:37:38 PM »
Sorry, stating HP theories may be interesting but the works simply are not dark enough.
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #97 on: October 02, 2004, 02:41:03 PM »
lol...ok ;D

*waits for books 6 and 7!*
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Offline Shadowfax

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2004, 02:43:13 PM »
"lol...ok  ;D"

What was so funny? Are my dark tastes abnormal or something?  ;)
When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day.
But warriors know it in their marrow when they die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re:Harry Potter
« Reply #99 on: October 02, 2004, 02:50:31 PM »
I don't know...but I find books 4 and 5 moving to being pretty dark.  Guess we just have different tastes in what we read and what we consider dark. :P
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anything