The KQ Universe afterlife... explained?

[Deloria]

"Ladies, I was getting worried, you're ten minutes late for lunch."

Actually, the sound file says 15 minutes.

Meh. Fine.

[Baggins]

I got the chance to contact Mark Seibert the producer for mask of eternity. Here is what he had to say about the Dimension of Death.

"Roberta’s point of view was that the “Dimension of Death” was not the under world(KQ6). It was a unique and different place."

-Mark Seibert, March 11, 2006.

There you have it according to the Mask of Eternity team the two afterlifes are intended to be completely different afterlifes, and not connected in any way.

So it appears that one is definitely the Green Isles afterlife, and the other is Daventry's afterlife. They are not connected in anyway. River of Death and River Styx are two entirely different rivers.

However I would assume that the other known afterlife known as "Hades"(King's Quest Companion) is likely connected to the "Realm of the Dead" by way of the River Styx as they both share the same river.

Additionally, Realm of the Dead is not only known in Green Isles, but apparently in Eldritch as well, as Malicia makes refrence to it in the  King's Quest Companion, and Authorized King's Quest VII Hintguide. Though its possible that she has visited the Green Isles at some point in time, where she learned about it.

This brings up another thought is Ooga Booga... Does it kind of fill in the role of an afterlife as well for the people of Eldritch?

[Aldrius]

Hmm... well kindof a moot point after the last point. But the lord of the realm of the dead is only Sarmaihn to the Druids. He doesn't refer to himself as that.

[Baggins]

Actually we don't really know if he's "Samhain" only to the druids, we don't actually know how many cultures refer to him as Samhain. Infact according to the Companion, it actually states that to druids he is also known as  "Lord of Coldness and Despair." The guidebook, just said; "others call him Samhain.", just because we know druids call him that doesn't mean they are the only ones that call him that. Infact, Roberta Williams always refered to him as Samhain in interviews.

He has several titles and names.

As I recall he doesn't actually refer to his own name at all. As he doesn't remember who he was, until Alexander shows him the mirror. At that point he never really goes about explaining his entire past and identity at all, but rather keeps his word with Alexander to free Casimma's family.

However he is definitely not the same character as Lord Azrael. Unlike Samhain, Azrael is not chained to his chair, and can move freely around his Dimension of Death.

As a point of note, Derek Karlavaegen never met a Druid when he wrote the Guidebook, so logically he had to have met other people besides Druids that called him Samhain.

[Aldrius]

Hehe. Yeah. Samhain is actually a really interesting character. Him and Mannanan seem to be the only KQ villains who really exude fear and villainy. (Though Samhain is more of a tragic villain, he's really just a force of nature.) Mordack was so silly, maybe it was just his voice, but whenever I saw him he always seemed so clownish. (Though most of the character's were acted very big, and not very serious, Robby Benson and Tony Jay didn't so much, but yeah. Don Messick did, but that's Don Messick ^___^.)

[Baggins]

I'm not sure I'd really consider Samhain a villain. He's more of a minor diety, neither good nor evil. Its not like he has plans to take over the world. His only job is to lord over the the "Underworld", and judge the those that come before him, so that they can go to their respective aftelife.

It may be safe to assume that later afterlives may be heavenly or hellish depending on the action of the individual in life?

Really I understand him putting up a difficult challenge for the retrieval of souls in the underworld. If he didn't there probably would be a alot of people trying to bring back the dead to the world of the living, and that would likely bring an imbalance to the world. I mean what if evil people went to the underworld to resurrect other evil people? Then there would be an over surplus of villains running about in the world you know?

[Aldrius]

Well, he's not an EVIL villain. But he's a villain in the sense that he's an obstacle the hero must over-come. (Not the traditional defenition, I know.) Like I said he's really just a force of nature.

Though I agree about the 'not being easy to raise the dead' thing.

[Baggins]

Perhaps antagonist, adversary, or opponent would be better description for him?

[Rosedragon]

I always felt pity for poor Samhain. I was going to write a fanfic where a depressed, suicidal girl 'frees' Samhain and then has to take his place as Lady of death. She brings about soem much needed change in the Underworld. But then I thought the story would be too depressing.

[maestro]

There is one anomaly that I just thought of regarding the Land of the Dead and the Dimension of Death.  Since different cultures have different places for their people to go to when they die, one would expect that, when one dies, one would go to the place associated with one's own culture, rather than the place associated with the land where one has died.  For example, if a Viking dies fighting in a foreign land, he would expect to go to Valhalla, not to the place associated with the country in which he has died.  But, in KQ6, when Alexander dies an accidental death, he goes to the Land of the Dead, associated with the Green Isles, rather than the Dimension of Death, associated with Daventry.

Of course, when Roberta Williams was writing KQ6, she probably wasn't anticipating there being a separate Dimension of Death for the land of Daventry.  Still, it is an anomaly.

[Baggins]

Well while it may seem anomolous there is already somewhat of  explanation in place interestingly enough, at least partially implied by the literature.

Apparently since Green Isles exists on the edge of the world both physically and literally, apparently anyone who dies on or near Green Isles gets pulled from one world to the next, which happens to be the LandoftheDead/Underworld.

Alexander was closer to Land of the Dead then he was to DOD, so he got pulled there rather than DOD.

DOD is apparently located underneath the Kingdom of Daventry and the lands near by the kingdom.

However of course Alexander really didn't die to reach the underworld(except maybe in infinite alternate universe scenarios). In actuality he went there alive by riding Nightmare.

Surprisingly, we know the underworld is also connected to Earth somehow though not necessarily part of earth's cultural legends, as both Helen of Troy and Cleopatra ended up coming before Samhain as well.




I found yet another afterlife, that is mentioned offhandedly in King's Quest Companion. Graham thinks that some of the stuff in Mordack's castle may have originated from the "deepest hells". Perhaps a Dante's Inferno refrence? ...or perhaps there is more than one hell?

[maestro]

However of course Alexander really didn't die to reach the underworld(except maybe in infinite alternate universe scenarios). In actuality he went there alive by riding Nightmare.

I don't mean when he rides Nightmare, I mean when he dies by, say, going into the ocean and drowning.

But, otherwise, your explanation makes sense.

[Baggins]

Oh I know what you were talking about, I mentioned those.

As I mentioned we don't really have to explain the deaths, per se, as in true storyline those never happened, as far ast he story is concerned, except in infinite alternate realities maybe, .

[maestro]

Oh, I see what you mean.  Only the true storyline has to make sense.  If the main character dies before completing the story, then whatever happens next is only a hint, such as, in KQ7, when Valanice talks to herself after dying.

[Shewofdaventry]

The way alot of the screens show places in the green Isle, such as chessboard land, and the castle on the isle of the crown, mabye the game will include the DOD and the ROD to clarify thier differences

[Baggins]

Well technically it won't be a true clarification (as officially they are seperate places as clarified by Mark Seibert), but it will definitely be a new and alternate take on the issue if TSL decides to make them the same place, . I will certainly be sure to denote the differences in game universes/timelines in the King's Quest Omnipedia, if that takes place.

If people didn't know already, TSL has diverged from official lore in some places already, specifically timeline issues for example.

[Storm]

mabye the game will include the DOD and the ROD to clarify thier differences

Sorry to disappoint you, but according to Cesar, none of the lands from Mask Of Eternity would be in TSL (except for Daventry, of course).

[Shewofdaventry]

who said i was dissapointed 

[Baggins]

Hmm, I'm sure TSL will have enough lands in it that there won't really be a need for any of lands of MOE to be in it, :-p...

Though maybe a few off handed refrences to Lands from MOE would be nice just as tie-ins, . I mean connor is in the game right? He could make refrences to those lands, and the adventures he was in, if you are allowed to question him at all.

[HavocWizard]

Hmm, I'm sure TSL will have enough lands in it that there won't really be a need for any of lands of MOE to be in it, :-p...

Though maybe a few off handed refrences to Lands from MOE would be nice just as tie-ins, . I mean connor is in the game right? He could make refrences to those lands, and the adventures he was in, if you are allowed to question him at all.

Conner is in the game? Hurrah!