English Monarchs

[Deloria]

Yes they're also my favourite's. Especially Liz. Mary less so because she caused so much pain and sufferance in addition to the fact that she was brutal and ruthless. To quote Will Sommers in a letter to Catherine Carey Knolly's (Mary and Elizabeth's half-sister, borne by Mary Boleyn):

'Or are you like your half-sister Queen Mary (I, too, regret your relationship with her), blind and singularly unable to recognize even things looming right before her weak eyes? Your other half-sister, Elizabeth, is different; and I supposed you were also. I supposed it was the Boleyn blood, added to the Tudor, that made for a uniquely hard, clear vision of things, not muddied by any Spanish nonsense. But I see I was wrong. You are as prejudiced and stupid and full of religious choler as the Spanish Queen. King Harry is dead indeed, then. His long-sought children have seen to that.'

But what I've never understood was this: France and an Alliegance with Scottland (through Catherine Medici's son, married to Mary Stuart Queen of Scots). Scottland and France are located on either side of England, when Mary Stuart fled from Scottland, only to be captured by Elizabeth, she could have threatened Elizabeth with war from both sides and threats to cut off all trade. This would have bought her life. She needn't have died and the throne would still have gone to her son, James the V of Scottland/James the first of England.

[Deloria]

Thanks for the offer but what's wrong with it, the way Edgarnick did it? Oh well, here http://www.tudortimes.com/elizabethI.jpg it is anyway. If you're fascinated by the Tudors you should really read Henry VIII's Autobiography by Margaret George with notes by his jester William Sommers, it's absolutely fascinating. Since I read that book, I have been absolutely begging my parents for the Defeat of the Spanish Armada and Plantagenet Encyclopedia: From the Origins of the Angevin Dynasty to the Battle of Bosworth Field -- The Essential Guide to the Plantagenets. I need to read them to know exactly how Richard lost his crown to Henry Tudor in the battle of Bosworth field. I probably won't rest until I do.

[koko_99_2001]

Read it...put me to sleep

Back on topic...

[edgarnick]

Thanks for the offer but what's wrong with it, the way Edgarnick did it? Oh well, here http://www.tudortimes.com/elizabethI.jpg it is anyway. If you're fascinated by the Tudors you should really read Henry VIII's Autobiography by Margaret George with notes by his jester William Sommers, it's absolutely fascinating. Since I read that book, I have been absolutely begging my parents for the Defeat of the Spanish Armada and Plantagenet Encyclopedia: From the Origins of the Angevin Dynasty to the Battle of Bosworth Field -- The Essential Guide to the Plantagenets. I need to read them to know exactly how Richard lost his crown to Henry Tudor in the battle of Bosworth field. I probably won't rest until I do.

At the moment i'm really interested in the Babington plot where Babington left letters in beer barrels in trying to take over Elizabeth I, and make England a Roman Catholic country again.

[Deloria]

Thanks for the offer but what's wrong with it, the way Edgarnick did it? Oh well, here http://www.tudortimes.com/elizabethI.jpg it is anyway. If you're fascinated by the Tudors you should really read Henry VIII's Autobiography by Margaret George with notes by his jester William Sommers, it's absolutely fascinating. Since I read that book, I have been absolutely begging my parents for the Defeat of the Spanish Armada and Plantagenet Encyclopedia: From the Origins of the Angevin Dynasty to the Battle of Bosworth Field -- The Essential Guide to the Plantagenets. I need to read them to know exactly how Richard lost his crown to Henry Tudor in the battle of Bosworth field. I probably won't rest until I do.

At the moment i'm really interested in the Babington plot where Babington left letters in beer barrels in trying to take over Elizabeth I, and make England a Roman Catholic country again.

Again, to quote the book: "England will never again be Catholic. Queen Mary has seen to that, with her persecutions for the True Faith and her Spanish obsession. Harry never punished anyone for anything save disloyalty to the King. As long as you signed the Oath of Succession you could believe what you liked, provided you were gentlemanly about it and did not run about in a sweating fervour, one way or the other. Thomas More wasn't beheaded for being a Catholic (although the Catholics would like people to think that and have nearly succeeded), but for refusing to take the Oath. The rest of his household took it. But More did long for martyrdom and went to . . . heroic? . . . lengths to achieve it. He literally forced the King to kill him."

[Deloria]

Read it...put me to sleep

Back on topic...

Really? which one? They both sound fascinating. What aspect did you not like?

[Deloria]

Something that's always bugged me about Anne Bolyen, was that she poisened several people: Cardinal Wosely, Katherine of Aragon, Mary Tudor (Henry's sister), Mary Tudor (Henry's daughter), Henry Fitzroy (his illegitimate son)... Anyone who posed a threat to her or Elizabeth, she even suceeded in poisoning Henry, though she didn't suceed in killing either him or his daughter.

[Pacman928]

never heard of them.

[Deloria]

Okay,

Cardinal Wosely: He was the Cardinal at the time and tried to become pope, before that he was just a MARRIED priest. Anne Boleyn always despised him and convinced Henry that he should be executed on the grounds of treason. Henry was planning on letting him have a not-so-very-strict hearing. Thomas Wosely was a good friend of the kings and gave him many manor houses. After Wosely died a new cardinal was elected, his friend Thomas More. Thomas More was executed on the grounds of refusing the Oath of Succesion, declaring Elizabeth to be his heir, lest he die without a son. More was one of those few that love inflicting pain upon themselves. He used to beat and whip himself and then when he started bleeding, he would irritate the wound with a horse-hair shirt.

Katherine Of Aragon: Katherine of Aragon was one of many children by Fernidad of Aragon and Isabelle of Castille. She was the spanish princess called upon to marry Henry's older brother Arthur. When Arthur died (still a prince and married to Katherine) it was assumed that Henry should marry her. That was just a ploy to get Katherine's dowry plate. When Henry VII finally died, Henry VIII married Katherine. Henry never saw it as a legal marriage, even though the mariage between Arthur and Katherine was never consumated. In the end Henry was excommunicated, for trying to divorce Katherine because she could bear no more children after Mary (bloody Mary) save for monsters, cyclopses and the like. It was frobidden to marry your brother's wife.

Mary Tudor: Mary Tudor was the dowager Queen of France, a princess and a duchess of England. She was also one of two sisters that Henry had. Margaret (other sister) became Queen of Scottland. Mary became Queen of France because Henry decided to marry her off to the French King. She was a princess, because she was Henry's sister. She was a duchess because her next husband was a duke. She was openly hostile to Anne because she dissaproved of her and privately agreed with the people calling her "The Great w****", this was obviously cause enough for Anne to kill her.

Mary Tudor: Mary Tudor (also known as Bloody Mary), caused great sufference amongst her people and was a ruthless ruler. She wanted England to be Catolic again. She brutally killed anyone who was protestant and refused to become Catholic. She died before she managed to kill Elizabeth, but did lock Elizabeth up in the tower.

Henry Fitzroy: Henry Fitzroy was Henry's illegitimate son. He was borne by Bessie Blount whilst Henry was still married to Katherine. He was made duke of Richmond. He died of alleged consumption though it is known that he was a threat to the throne, should Anne have no heirs therefore it is/was assumed that she had him killed.

[Deloria]

Though, he would be King Consort even if she intended to have him coronated, which is unlikely. King Consorts never have had and never will have much (if any) power. Once the queen is dead, they move aside as Dowager Prince (or something to that extent at any rate)

EDIT: James VI became James I, King of England and just acknowledged Scottland as a sub-region of the British Isles of which he was now ruler. I think it can also be argued that Philip of Spain was only king of Spain, not King of England, thus being only Prince of Spain even though he was married to Mary Tudor (daughter, not sister of Henry VIII, who married Francis Brandon, Duke of Suffolk, after she married the King of France)

[maestro]

I've never heard of a King Consort.  I thought that the husband of a Regnant Queen was always called Prince Consort.  Are there any historical examples of a King Consort?

Interestingly, Prince Charles has said that, when he becomes King, that he wants his wife to be called Princess Consort, although there is no legal basis for that.

EDIT:  Oh, I think you're just pulling my leg.  Either that, or you mean that Kings Consort exist in the Kings Quest universe (or multiverse).

[Deloria]

Well, look at Maria-Theresa, Empress. She had her husband coronated, and he became emporer, but he had no power whatsoever. (ANd I'm not pulling your leg, I thought they were called King Consorts )

[maestro]

All right, I just checked Wikipedia to find out more about Maria Theresa.  From reading the article, it appears that she became Queen of Hungary upon the death of her father.  The article doesn't say what title her husband Francis received when they were married, but I assume that it was Prince Consort.  Later, Francis was elected Holy Roman Emperor with his wife's backing.  Upon his election as Holy Roman Emperor, his wife became Holy Roman Empress, but it was a derivative title, based on her husband's election.  I don't know which title inherently held more power, Queen of Hungary or Holy Roman Emperor, but, in this instance, Francis was content to let his wife Maria-Theresa have all the power, while he served as her assistant and secretary.

An interesting footnote to all this is that the process for electing the President of the United States was based on that for electing the Holy Roman Emperor.  In fact, the electors who cast their ballots for president were named after the electors of the Holy Roman Emperor.

[Deloria]

Now I'm sure they're called King Consorts as opposed to Prince Consorts.