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Thoughts on the direction of villains

Started by Nilan, February 04, 2006, 06:59:54 PM

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Storm

#20
First of all, next time you quote someone, could you please use the quote button or at least the quote tag ([ quote] [ /quote])? it would be a lot less confusing :S
Allow me to demonstrate:

Quote from: Baggins on February 19, 2006, 08:04:05 AM
"I guess that's from one of the companions/books,"

The quote is definitely from companion, an authorized and official spinoff material. Though not mentioned in any of Sierra's games except, King's Questions.

"because that info isn't in any of the games."

Actually you can find the same info(well the part about them being related as brothers and sister) in "King's Questions", a king's quest trivia game released with certain editions of King's Quest Collection.

"Which of the following evil people is not related to the others?

a. Tabitha

b. Manannan

c. Hagatha

d. Mordack"


"There's also a quote of Roberta Williams to the contrary  However, it looks like TSL would assume they are siblings"

Well you'll find that alot of things with Roberta Williams are contrary. Sometimes she simply forgets details about the games when she answers questions. ...or other designers added their own things into the games stories that weren't necessarily invented by Roberta, so they are not part of her knowledge. This is especially true in later games, where she was more of concept proeducer, but let everyone else be in charge of what went on in the games.

Interesting enough as far as Roberta Williams is concerned there is no Society of the Black Cloak, it wasn't something she came up with, and only briefly discussed with Jane Jensen. So it was possible that had official King's Quest games continued that Shadrack may never even shown up at all, unless Jane Jensen was involved with the story.

The "Black Cloak Society" was never an actual term that I instigated or thought up. I'm not actually sure where that came from. The closest thought that I have on that subject is that: when I was working with Jane Jensen on King's Quest 6, and we thought up the evil vizier, we talked loosely about the possibility of putting Mannanan, Mordack, and the vizier together as group -- possibly -- in a future King's Quest. There was loose reference to the possibility in King's Quest 6, although nothing was set in stone at that time. I think that it's possible that Jane Jensen might have mentioned the possibility (perhaps) in subsequent interviews on the subject, although, I'm not sure about that. Later on, I heard about the Black Cloak Society and kind of wondered where that phrase came from, but, I never refuted it as I thought it was kind of cool and, probably, would have gone on with the idea in future King's Quests had I had the chance. And, one final thing: Hagatha was never part in any discussion of a Black Cloak Society.- Roberta Williams at SierraGamers (6-9-2003)

Yep, I kinda knew all that already.
That question was the one reason I didn't get a perfect score at "King's Questions" >:( I remember playing it for the first time and thinking "She's their sister?? Where did THAT come from??". Later I figured it must have been an error on their part, as I didn't even know back then there were KQ companions or books or anything - those weren't distributed where I live ::)
And actually, I was referring to this quote:

I asked Roberta [...], and sorry to admit that she said she didn't remember the Black Cloak Society. It sounds cool. Perhaps she should have taken it more seriously and featured it in other games. With respect to Hagatha [being related to Manannan and Mordack]: Roberta's answer was, "Would you like them to be related?" Then she said, "Nope, Hagatha was her own seperate person." - Ken Williams at SierraGamers (6-9-2003)

Anyways, it all goes to show sometimes game designers/authors don't give those details as much thought as some fans, or maybe just that Roberta Williams haven't read the KQ companion ;)


Quote from: Baggins on February 19, 2006, 08:04:05 AMWell actually he kept her as his personal slave because she refused to marry him, as stated in KQ5, ;). He felt by punishing her that way he could some how convince her to marry him...

Yes, but he had to! I mean, there he was, stuck with this girl not half his age living in his castle... the neighbours might think they're living in sin!! He had to either marry her and make it legal (which she wouldn't agree), or keep her as a slave to put a stop to all those vicious rumors.
The guy's innocent, I'm telling you!! ;P
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Baggins

#21
Quotemaybe just that Roberta Williams haven't read the KQ companion

She apparently read at least some of it, as there is an endorsement quote from her printed in the book, discussing her enjoyment of it, and that it was a must have for anyone wanting to explore the series in greater depth and detail. Though its possibly she never read the KQ5 chapter of the book with the quote about Hagatha being related to Mordack.

However I get the impression from quotes I posted, and others I've read she didn't seem to keep track of every detail, and in many cases let her designers have somewhat free reign with directions of the games. Especially in the later half of the series where she became more of producer than director. It especially affected MoE, where many of her and designers ideas were stripped from the game due to the company wanting to release the game early, with fewer disks.

Also she didn't write most of the Manual material, leaving that to other authors. So there is a strong chance she may not fully remember details brought up in those either, or simply doesn't think about them much.

Also it seems the main King's Quest designer/writer who liked to directly refrence King's Quest Companion's contributions to King's Quest lore, was Lorelei Shannon, which she would do quite often within the King's Quest Hintguides she wrote.

After her it seems Jane Jensen was the second person to refrence companion material, and have discussions with its author, with her use of Derek Karlavaegen for example.

I've been quite curious as to who was involved with making King's Questions game, as not only does it have refrences taken from King's Questions(even the map in the game is derived from the companion), but makes refrences to details, not even mentioned anywhere else that I know of(not even in the companion)...

I mean where does the name "Monastery of the Blessed Wilbury" come from? Its not mentioned in either 3rd or 4th edition of the companion,. I'm fairly sure that it probably wasn't from earlier editions either. Anyone know anything about that?

Additionally its known that Peter Spear was in contact with king's quest designers and others involved in the series for the research for his books, in which case maybe he didn't invent some of the material, and could have picked up some of it from production notes (much like was the case with certain material in his "Authorized KQVII Strategy Guide"). Some of the info may have existed as  internal notes between certain members of the King's Quest teams, but not necessarily stuff Roberta was in on. Much like the Black Cloak Society wasn't something Roberta had much hand in, and never thought much about, herself.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg