Phoenix Online studios buying Sierra?

[Yonkey]

Would that be the Neil Rodrigues retirement fund?    

LOL! You bet.

[noaheugene20]

If you bought the king's quest series or the space quest series you guys would probably make a lot of money off it.....hopefully enough to cover the costs to buy the rights.

[Yonkey]

What's more likely to happen is Vivendi granting us the rights to use the King's Quest trademark in commercial projects, through the use of royalty fees or something.  They've already granted us permission for non-commercial use of Sierra intellectual property.

However, we are more interested in creating our original IP than constantly borrowing Sierra's.

[Baggins]

Well, actually its more likely that if vivendi gave permission to use the King's Quest trademark, that they would probably retain the right to produce the game commercially, and probably put the Sierra and Vivendi logos into the game's startup video as well.

They'd probably end up getting payed majority, and your company end up getting a portion of the profits.

As for getting hte Space Quest trademark? That would be more difficult since Sierra didn't even own the rights to the term "Space Quest" and had to get permission from some musuem that held the rights to the term.

[Yonkey]

Well, actually its more likely that if vivendi gave permission to use the King's Quest trademark, that they would probably retain the right to produce the game commercially, and probably put the Sierra and Vivendi logos into the game's startup video as well.

They'd probably end up getting payed majority, and your company end up getting a portion of the profits.

That all sounds more or less plausible, except for the part about "majority".  The majority of the game isn't their IP, it's derived from theirs (meaning it's not 1:1 replication), and even then, it's the storyline we used, which they have not trademarked (nor is it even possible to) but have already allowed us permission to use their IP.  Anyway that's all I can say publicly on this subject without discussion negotiations.  The rest of you are free to discuss.

[sivvrianBARRY]

Game publishers usually take the vast majority of the profits from any game. Unless you guys would go the self-publishing route, which doesn't seem too plausible, since VU probably wants to make a killing off the game if it's released commercially. Then again, there's always the possibility that you guys could score a sweet deal and take in a huge share of the profits!

[Yonkey]

At this point in time, VU has no expressed interest in publishing our game, nor compensating our team for past and/or future development.  But, we'll see about that.

[Baggins]

Ya, I'm referring to the fact  that the company that owns the I.P, retains the rights to most of the profit. Even if the other company came up with most of the new material.

This isn't in refrence to your game in particular (even if you could get VU to publish it) but just how the world works... Most companies are extremely protective of their IPs, and don't want other people making more money off of them than they do.

[Yonkey]

Most companies are extremely protective of their IPs, and don't want other people making more money off of them than they do.

Yep.  And believe it or not, ours is no exception.

[Baggins]

Except that King's Quest isn't your IP, you are just borrowing Vivendi's IP essentially.

But if you are referring to a future game with a brand new IP, quite understandable, and quite true.

[Yonkey]

Except that King's Quest isn't your IP, you are just borrowing Vivendi's IP essentially.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.  The exact amount and use of Sierra IP is not the legal equivalent to copyright/trademark infringement, and it would be very difficult for VU to prove in court that it is and/or how it results in past/present/future financial damages to their company.   

Just keep in mind that if things worked out differently back in October/November, I could have easily defended our game in court, regardless of us not having legal permission at the time.

[Stones Of Stealth]

once TSL is completely released and you have atleast 3 games and a few little game sunder your belt, POS is worth a lot more. just make alot of flash related games, and a few more games, sell the rights to the unofficial TSL game, and release a different adventure series. ontop of that buying sierra

[Yonkey]

once TSL is completely released and you have atleast 3 games and a few little game sunder your belt, POS is worth a lot more. just make alot of flash related games, and a few more games, sell the rights to the unofficial TSL game, and release a different adventure series. ontop of that buying sierra

What the... when did you become a business prodigy?

Apart from the last sentence, I would say the rest is actually very possible.   It's not the most ideal path that we're planning, but it's certainly much closer than the "ZOMGBUYSIERRAPLZKTHX" comments I usually hear from people.

[oberonqa]

once TSL is completely released and you have atleast 3 games and a few little game sunder your belt, POS is worth a lot more. just make alot of flash related games, and a few more games, sell the rights to the unofficial TSL game, and release a different adventure series. ontop of that buying sierra

What the... when did you become a business prodigy?

Apart from the last sentence, I would say the rest is actually very possible.   It's not the most ideal path that we're planning, but it's certainly much closer than the "ZOMGBUYSIERRAPLZKTHX" comments I usually hear from people.

Ahh... but if POS went that route and had successful games under it's belt, it's value as a development house would put the possibility of being purchased by another company (be it VU or EA or whoever) very likely... especially if the POS brand became synonomous with quality gaming.

And if that happened... well let's just say it's a mixed bag...

[Yonkey]

Mixed bag indeed.  But considering the majority of our staff is hardworking and have made it this far for free, I can't see money affecting things negatively.

We are currently seeking investors for some capital to begin on our commercial products. I can't really see anyone interested in a buy-out right now when there's nothing to buy.   In the future, who knows.

Personally, my price is quite high. I'm not the kind of person to stop working hard just because someone waves a cheque in front of my face.  There is a difference between ownership and investment, and our team prefers publishers choosing the latter, since we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what we're capable of yet.

[oberonqa]

Mixed bag indeed.  But considering the majority of our staff is hardworking and have made it this far for free, I can't see money affecting things negatively.

We are currently seeking investors for some capital to begin on our commercial products. I can't really see anyone interested in a buy-out right now when there's nothing to buy.   In the future, who knows.

Personally, my price is quite high. I'm not the kind of person to stop working hard just because someone waves a cheque in front of my face.  There is a difference between ownership and investment, and our team prefer publishers choosing the latter, since we haven't even scratched the surface of what we're capable of yet.

Amen Neil... Amen.

It's been my experience that people who make games for the money typically don't come up with very compelling stuff.  It's the people who make games for the pleasure of making games that really come up with the good stuff.  You need look no further than any of the industry legends to see the proof of this.  People like Richard Garriott, Will Wright, and Peter Molyneoux all fit the profile.  You take away all the money and they'd still be making games that are fun to play.

That's why I love the fan-development and modding scenes.  There is so much untapped potential in these areas of the industry it's not even funny.  When you got people coming up with mods and games that rival commercial games in their market saturation and gameplay... that says a great deal.  In fact... it's history in the making.

[Oldbushie]

Yeah, when some fangames start exceeding the quality of all the commercial games, companies will have to start reevaluating their priorities... especially when sales plummet.

TSL is on par with The Longest Journey (1+2), I would say, and hopefully it will be just as long. The graphics in the TSL demo alone are astounding, and although they aren't as high in the polygon count, their hand-drawn quality *more* than makes up for it. The perfect blend for the casual adventure gamer since it's low resource and high quality.

[Yonkey]

Yeah, when some fangames start exceeding the quality of all the commercial games, companies will have to start reevaluating their priorities... especially when sales plummet.

Definitely.  There are both advantages and disadvantages to being non-commercial, just as there are to being commercial.  However, one thing's for sure: once publishers start considering fan-game development as valid and competitive, we'll definitely see a change in industry.

[Baggins]

Vivendi is starting to make money off of Sierra name again, so they might not be willing to sell it.

If they would be willing to sell individual IPs in the future who knows?

[Yonkey]

If they would be willing to sell individual IPs in the future who knows?

Not sell, more like license.   The same way how artists allow people to license their IP.  You just have to pay the copyright owner for use of it.