Author Topic: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry  (Read 12486 times)

Offline Petra Rocks

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A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« on: August 08, 2006, 12:16:10 PM »
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So I guess Graham being a knight at age 19 would not be unrealistic even to real life.


 I'm not the resident Middle Ages person *throws look at Deloria*, But IIRC, the kighting could take place at almost any age.  In later times some chose never to become knight to avoid responbilities.  At others a child might be to give him more prestige in the eyes of the subjects.  


 To put it all in a nutshell, lifespan depends on standard of living, almost exclusivly.  The question is, does Daventry support a post-industrial living standard or not?  Either way average lifetime can be determined with resonable accuracy, but I have no idea what the answers is, so I can't say how long people in Daventry live.  :)

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 12:17:42 PM »
Doesn't this depend on what period of time you define as the industrial revolution? XD
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Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 12:26:01 PM »
 Well, the end of it anyway.  :)  Just leave it at higher living standard=longer life then.  By post-industrial I meant 1940's or so, but that can vary a lot.   ;)

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 12:31:44 PM »
So basically, you're asking if someone like Graham would be able to survive in today's modern world?  Interesting... 8)
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Offline TheGreatGraham

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 12:49:32 PM »
  I didn't think into religion, because Moses IS a historical figure.  I was in no way trying to start a religious debate, so I don't see where you got that from.  Sorry if I offended, but I was simply stated if you are relating the timeline of history to KQ timeline, not all people in the past were limited to a 50 year life span.
  "Also I never said anything about 10 kings a hundred year span... 4-6 at the most. If there were 10 kings in 100 year life span and they had all died of "old age", well that would all give them aprroximately 20 year lifespans... 10 years to grow and about 10 years to rule... Sorry that doesn't make any logical sense at all.
al figure."
  Very seldom do things work in perfect order, and if you read the history books there are very seldomly kings who simply become kings when they are twenty five, die thirty years later, and everyone else follows that exact cycle.  There are often more than 6 or 7 kings in a 100 year span.  Also let me out your assuming the first man became king when he was 25, while it was just as likely he bacame a king when he was 55, and he ruled for 25 years.
 "Again we are discussing humans and human age patterns "
  As I have already said, that is EXACTLY my point.  The only reference you have to the lifespan of humans is the history of former kings of the Green Isles, and that history is sketchy at best.
  "Well there is this little fact that Isle of the Crown had been quite peaceful previously." 
  So that mean's noone dies?  Every country has problems, even in so-called times of "peace".   If there were no problems, and every king ruled well and had no difficulties whatsoever, that would mean the story was a fantasy, and in fantasies people live longer.

  THis is pretty far off-topic, so I'll bring it back on track.  All I originally said was that Graham would most likely not die from natural causes in this game, so we wouldn't have to worry about who would take over the throne unless he dies by unnatural causes.  I said this assuming Graham was 55, but now YOU say he was about 45.  Even if the maximum average life span was 60, he would still have 15 years, and he also has the fruit, and we have no idea how much that could increase his age.  So unless he dies of unnatural causes, we won't have to worry about  who takes over the throne.
  Ok?  I actually don't see why this whole conversation about the timeline got started, since that is the only thing I was trying to say.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 12:54:30 PM by TheGreatGraham »

Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 12:54:08 PM »
 It is an interesting thought, but that's not what I'm trying to ask. I was trying to ask how long people in daventry live, and pointing out that living standard is far and away the most important factor in determining that.  Thus, if Daventry has a "modern" living standard or not in large part determines the answer to the question of how long people live in Daventry.  :)   

Offline TheGreatGraham

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 01:11:17 PM »
  Hmmm...  All I can remember is that it was said he would have "many years of life before him", besides that I don't remember.
You would think it would extend his age somewhat, since it most likely healed any other problems he had (let's say arthritis).
  On all the other stuff, I will agree to disagree about the timeline, since we obviously simply have two different viewpoints.  Since we are really not filled in on the information, I will venture to say that neither of us are wrong, but each filling in the gaps in the timeline 'in our own way.'  I take the fantasy approach, well you take the realistic, dark ages approach.  If I ever want a debate I'll know who to start arguing with (I still think I'm right though ;D)
  Actually, if Graham does die in TSL, it will be very interesting.  I'll explain what I mean.  The fairy on Tamir promised Rosella that Graham had many years of good health ahead of him.  THis could be seen two ways.
1:Simply stating that he was cured of his current problem, the heart attack.  or
2:It could be seen as a prophecy.  It could be predicting Graham would live "many more years".  Since, in the TSL timeline at least, the time between KQ4 and TSL is not at all great, it could not very well be considered 'many years'.  Does this mean if Graham dies the prophecy is false, if it even is a prophecy?
  I hope this problem can be solved by simply letting Graham live and killing someone else (if POS insists on bloodshed).  Then the throne won't be a worry.

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 01:19:35 PM »
Ah ok.  Well, one way to figure it out is to examine anyone who dies during a KQ game and/or the KQ companions of natural causes. :)

King Edward is the only one that comes to mind at the moment, but I don't have time to check his timeline and whatnot.  Could someone estimate his age at time of death?  Although, as a King he may have lived more lavishly than an ordinary peasant, so keep in mind that this isn't 100% scientifically accurate. :P
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Offline Baggins

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 01:46:28 PM »
Granted dieing in old age in world of Daventry is caused by dieties from various underworlds. 

Such as Father Death(KQ4), Samhain(KQ6), or Azriel(MoE). So it would appear they don't like letting humans live for long periods of time, so they decide when people have lived too long in the world. Apparently they have no control over immortals though.

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King Edward is the only one that comes to mind at the moment, but I don't have time to check his timeline and whatnot.  Could someone estimate his age at time of death?  Although, as a King he may have lived more lavishly than an ordinary peasant, so keep in mind that this isn't 100% scientifically accurate

Well to have any idea of how to calculate his age we would need an idea when he was born. I have no idea when you have him born in your TSL timeline.

I'm not sure there is much of anything about him in novels or companion, except a few offhand remarks, and some refrences to what he did while he was king.

One of the only specific dates is that apparently the mirror was stolen 20 years before KQ1.

There was a few remarks about some of the kings before Edward in one of the novels, but I don't remember a timespan mentioned.
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"Very seldom do things work in perfect order, and if you read the history books there are very seldomly kings who simply become kings when they are twenty five, die thirty years later, and everyone else follows that exact cycle. "

Going by the manuals and the companion, and narration quotes in the game,  it would appear all the kings before caliphim all lived and died of old age. So if at least 4 kings existed during a 100 year timespan, old age would not be more than 60-70  with a king that ruled before 100 years, one that lived into the 100 year era, and one that lived beyond the 100 year era.

Since kings tend to live longer than the subjects due to better medical options and better food choices, then that would mean in Green Isles the lower class likely do not live as long. Shave off a decade or so.

Oh ya Hassan is considered an at least older middle-age in KQ6, he was "young" child 20 years before. His father is dead of apparently old age going by the companion.

 
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So that mean's noone dies?  Every country has problems, even in so-called times of "peace".   If there were no problems, and every king ruled well and had no difficulties whatsoever, that would mean the story was a fantasy, and in fantasies people live longer.

There were no problems, and obvioulsy they didn't live longer, as there were 4-5 kings in a 100 year period of known peace with only Caliphim dieing of unatural causes. Believe me that doesn't mean they "live longer". That literally means on average they ruled only 25 years of time during those 100 years.

 
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THis is pretty far off-topic, so I'll bring it back on track.  All I originally said was that Graham would most likely not die from natural causes in this game, so we wouldn't have to worry about who would take over the throne unless he dies by unnatural causes.  I said this assuming Graham was 55, but now YOU say he was about 45.  Even if the maximum average life span was 60, he would still have 15 years, and he also has the fruit, and we have no idea how much that could increase his age.  So unless he dies of unnatural causes, we won't have to worry about  who takes over the throne.

Again I agree the only discussion of age related subject was only tryinng to figure out a ballpark figure of when Graham may die. Not when he will die, or how long he will live since he's a bit different than most other humans thanks to having consumed mystical fruit(which we have no idea if it extends life, or only heals life(I'll have to look into that).

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I take the fantasy approach, well you take the realistic, dark ages approach.


Who said anything about the dark ages approach? If it was the dark ages, they wouldn't be living nearly as long as 50-70 maybe 80 years. 50-70 years during the dark ages would be absolutely ancient, and very long lived life. 60-70 years is modern average, and that is due to health breakthrouths. So yes fantastically if they are living 60-70 maybe 80 years in medieval-like realm on average that is fantastically spectaculer. Especially considering that any number of dieties could decide they are too old and should die of "old age".


« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 02:07:09 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 02:08:33 PM »
Granted dieing in old age in world of Daventry is caused by dieties from various underworlds. 
Hehe I know, that's why I said let's try to list people that died of natural causes, but King Edward is the only one I could think of. :-\
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Offline Baggins

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2006, 02:20:09 PM »
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Hehe I know, that's why I said let's try to list people that died of natural causes, but King Edward is the only one I could think of.

Well if we went by your definition of "natural causes", i'm not sure Edward could be counted as well. First off the companion or one of the manuals mentions he was taken by Death(so sounds like Father Death). He died of heart attack, one of joy. Heart disease is often considered a disease of old age, since heart disease tends to age people beyond their normal years. For all we know heart attacks is one of the ways the death realms demigods use to take their souls.

Which leads into a point that many cultures "natural causes" include the belief in deities taking the souls, when they have lived the length of their life. So which is why I point out there are more than one definition of "natural causes".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 02:22:12 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Boogeyman

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 04:18:41 PM »
Who is this Father Death?
I don't narrate for stinky kings!

Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2006, 05:35:48 PM »
So here you are.  I would've sworn I posted this in the OT section. Oh well. 

  Mmmmkay, one person is not a large enough demographic to draw broad conclusions about life expectancy from, I'm afraid.   :-\  And actually, life expectancies tend to be heavily modified by the infant mortality rate, so the life of a healthy 20 year old king could be pretty long if he didn't get conked over the head with a mace or anything. Charlemagne for example died at 67-72, depending on when he was born.  They didn't exactly issue birth certificates back in the day.  ;)

  And life expectancy takes into account people who die of illness and whatnot, not just when if finally stop going without any reason other than age.

Offline Baggins

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2006, 06:08:50 PM »
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Who is this Father Death?

In KQ4 intro movie, the narrator says that Rosella hopes that Father Death doesn't come to take Graham's soul away to the afterlife.

Yes, its pretty obscure refrence. :suffer:.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 06:11:47 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2006, 10:39:56 AM »
Well as I said, I couldn't think of anyone else.  But, Boogeyman did give me an idea.  How about the ages of some people on their tombstones?  Those should give a decent estimate of an average citizen.

Have a look at the ones in KQ2, KQ4 & KQ7 and let us know the ages you find. :)
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Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2006, 11:35:23 AM »
Hey, that's a good thought. Unfortunately I only have KQ2+, so somebody else will have to look it up.  :-\

Offline Baggins

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 12:29:03 PM »
There are no gravestones in the original KQ2.

KQ2 + ones on the other hand show the average length of age for various dead people between 50-70 years, if they died of "natural" causes. Going by the dating system used, I'm guessing they were inspired by the dating system in KQ4.

However for the  King's Quest 4 dates we have two interpretations to explain the tombstones.

If King's Quest occured on earth as the designers implied, then tombstones have citizens of Tamir that died between 1500-1700s of our history. Age limits are between 50-70 years according to the tombstones.

On the other hand if go by the viewpoint that those stones were brought over from the town of Innsmouth during an unknown date from our world(into another world, or into our  world but in the past). In which case they still show earth age limits between 50-70 years.

Either way, the author of the travel guide "Ten days of Tamir-Vacation in Paradise" seems to treat the ages as being ordinary, and in some cases considers some of the people having died "old". Also Rosella, nor Valanice(who chronicled her daughter's events) don't seem to treat the age of those buried in tamir, as anythng out of the ordinary except for the one or two children (In which case they comment how sad it was that they died young).

KQ7 grave stones do not list any dates as I recall.

KQ-8 stones don't have much dating information either only epitaphs.

The only dates listed on KQ-8 stones graphics are one or two of refrences to the date "1996-1997", which of course has to do with when the game was made.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 01:06:44 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Yonkey

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2006, 12:31:55 PM »
Ahh ok, so 50-70.  I guess they didn't want to go too realistic, as today's average lifespan is in the 80-90's. 8)
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Offline Baggins

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2006, 12:49:22 PM »
Actually world wide average is is still 70-80s. There are quite a few third world countries that have limits to the 30-50s unfortunately.

According to wikipedia current world-wide average is apparently 64.77 years.

I believe US expectency last time I checked was around 60-70, due to rampant obesity, and unhealthy US diets.

Sure there are many make it to 80-100 years in the US, but they are apparently the exception not the norm.

If its any help with the discussion at hand, people in the world of daventry are supposed to be the decendents of people from ancient nations of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Britain, Arabia, and other miscellaneous countries.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 02:04:10 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Boogeyman

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Re: A topical thread, aka lifespan in Daventry
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2006, 01:31:40 PM »
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Who is this Father Death?

In KQ4 intro movie, the narrator says that Rosella hopes that Father Death doesn't come to take Graham's soul away to the afterlife.

Yes, its pretty obscure refrence. :suffer:.
"King Graham lies weakly in bed, Father Death hovering near."
I don't narrate for stinky kings!