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Started by Squall Griever Leonhart, October 27, 2003, 11:31:54 AM

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Squall Griever Leonhart

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Yonkey

Yeah, I know.  But in the previous forums she was asking why we weren't using DirectX.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Storm

#2
Quote from: Yonkey on October 27, 2003, 11:37:54 AM
Yeah, I know.  But in the previous forums she was asking why we weren't using DirectX.
I thought Jeysie was against using DirectX ???
But then, she wasn't too much in favor of the OpenGL either. IIRC, It's the whole 3D acceleration she had a problem with.
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Yonkey

No, she said that her card only supports up to DirectX 8.  And that OpenGL ran really slow on her computer.  But yeah, it's the 3D accelerated thing that's the problem, it doesn't matter if it's OpenGL or DirectX, if the video card doesn't support it, it will be slow & choppy regardless.   :-\
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Yonkey

That's just it.  OpenGL is supported on more platforms and versions than DirectX.  This means, in theory more people will be able to use it. :)
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Storm

So you're using the better one. End of discussion  8)
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Jeysie

#6
I think the problem is that my video card is fast with software acceleration, but not hardware acceleration. Dunno what that means for the various formats.

Quote from: Storm on October 27, 2003, 11:36:36 AMActually, I think she meant the compatibility argument thread.
Not one of my finest, I must say  ::)

Yes, I did. And I thought you handled yourself fairly well, considering. I mean, I'm all for OS choice, and making sure a program is coded to be easily portable to different OSes. But if doing each port is still going to take a long time, you need to port to the OS that the most people use first, namely Windows. It's a choice between getting *something* out there now, and making everyone wait.

Not to mention, there are several programs designed for using Windows programs on other OSes, especially Linux. You'd think they'd be used to using such software by now, if they can't stand the wait.

And... open-sourcing an adventure game? How? You can't effectively open-source something unless it's either something that won't be ruined by seeing all the code in development, or something modular that can be released in separate parts. An adventure game is neither. Geez, what a nut. Oh, well, it's irrelevant, now. :)

(I could open up another can of worms by commenting on an adventure game that uses 3D accelerated images, but AFAIK doesn't really seem to take advantage of 3D positioning possibilities, but I won't. ;) Unless it does, in which case I'll keep the worms well contained.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Storm

#7
Yeah, but that whole argument was rather pointless to begin with, especially after Cesar said how things are going to go. I really should learn to just ignore guys like that  :P
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Jeysie

#8
"Just 64MB"? Mine is only 4MB, according to my DirectX diagnostics. :'( (sigh) Someday, someday.

Edit: And I got it flipped... software is slower, hardware is faster for me. Maybe the SC2 port uses software rendering OpenGL drivers, and that's why it's so slow for me...

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yonkey

Quote from: Jeysie on October 27, 2003, 02:40:09 PM
"Just 64MB"? Mine is only 4MB, according to my DirectX diagnostics. :'( (sigh) Someday, someday.
4MB   :o  Wow, now I can visualize how choppy the game'll be for you.  I'm not going to say it won't work at all, because I told you how I was still able to run it.  Still, I suggest waiting for the beta testing.  The code and graphics will be optimized then for slower computers.

Quote from: Jeysie on October 27, 2003, 02:40:09 PM
Edit: And I got it flipped... software is slower, hardware is faster for me. Maybe the SC2 port uses software rendering OpenGL drivers, and that's why it's so slow for me...

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but if you take any Computer Engineering courses you learn that hardware performs way faster than software, or rather software trying to emulate hardware.  I guess mainly because most, if not all the calculatons are done with the video card's GPU (designed specifically to process them), and not the computer's main CPU and memory.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Jeysie

Quote from: Yonkey on October 27, 2003, 02:58:45 PM4MB   :o  Wow, now I can visualize how choppy the game'll be for you.  I'm not going to say it won't work at all, because I told you how I was still able to run it.  Still, I suggest waiting for the beta testing.  The code and graphics will be optimized then for slower computers.

Heh, joy. ;) If you want me to beta-test for you guys when the time comes, I'd be willing to give it a shot and apply. Aside from my dismal specs, I'm really good at bending games by thinking up weird and bizarre things to try out. ;)

Quote from: Yonkey on October 27, 2003, 02:58:45 PMYeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but if you take any Computer Engineering courses you learn that hardware performs way faster than software, or rather software trying to emulate hardware.  I guess mainly because most, if not all the calculatons are done with the video card's GPU (designed specifically to process them), and not the computer's main CPU and memory.

Yeah, I do know that much about video stuff. :) (I'm good with software, usually, but hardware has always given me some pause.) I thought my memory seemed a little odd, so I pulled out my DXDiag program to check to make sure. (Plus I wanted to find out my memory specs... the ones for my video card, that is. I already know my cerebral memory could use an upgrade. ;D)

Peace & Luv, Liz

Jeysie

You're not making me feel very reassured here, Yonkey. ;) Out of curiousity, are you guys going to make use of the 3D element, or is this just a "2D adventure with 3D graphics"?

At any rate, I have an AMD-K6-3D 350MHz with MMX. I believe it's the rough equivalent of a P2. And I have 128MB of RAM. Yay.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Storm

Again, aren't y'all being a bit premature?  ::)
It's hard to know how well the game's going to run on each and every system, especially if the game isn't even completed.
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Yonkey

#13
Quote from: Jeysie on October 27, 2003, 04:42:09 PM
You're not making me feel very reassured here, Yonkey. ;) Out of curiousity, are you guys going to make use of the 3D element, or is this just a "2D adventure with 3D graphics"?
It's hard to say.  In the demo I could move the camera around, zoom in and out, but I know the camera will be fixed in the actual game so it's more like a "2D adventure with 3D graphics".  There may be camera movements in conversations and cutscenes, maybe even a zoom when you pick up or examine objects.

This is really a question Cesar or Rich should answer because I don't really know what's going in the game and what's not.  I do know a lot of the 3D will be faked since the camera will be fixed.  For example, instead of designing a whole 3D world of a location, we would just have a 2D plane as a background as large as the camera view.  So it would look like there's a whole landscape, but really it's just a piece of one.  If you were able to move the camera or walk through the plane, you'd see the other side is empty.

So, since this isn't like a first person shooter, where the camera is moving a lot and everything has to have an external surface because of all the ways you can view it, it may not be as graphic intensive.  This is why the game may run on slower computers.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Storm

Wasn't it already said the game is going to be full 3D, only with a fixed camera? ???

The "2D adventure with 3D graphics" is more like regular 2D with pre-rendered 3D sprites, not something using a 3D engine.
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Jeysie

Hmm. I guess what I meant more is... it seems like all the adventure games nowadays are moving to 3D... but the "pure" ones are only using it for eye candy.
Personally I've always thought 2D graphics were far prettier than 3D (although I'll be quite happy to have the KQ9 team surprise me and blow my socks off...), so if adventure game makers are going to move to 3D, I wish they'd *use* the 3D. Make being able to peek around corners, go over or under things, look under or around things, and stuff like that important to exploring and solving puzzles. There's gotta be a way to do it without turning things into an action-adventure.

If game developers aren't going to fully utilize the 3D aspects, I kinda wish they'd stick to 2D... better graphics, less interface wackiness, less system requirements, and it's gotta be easier to program. Well... maybe full 3D for your next adventure game. ;D

Peace & Luv, Liz

Yonkey

I never played MoE, but was it something like that?  I mean able to freely explore in three dimensions?  It wouldn't work in this game because there are far too many lands, details and objects to explore.  ;D  

Also, it was decided years ago that this game would be screen-to-screen (like traditional adventure games), in 3D and have a 3rd person view.  8)
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Oldbushie

I'm playing this one weird action adventure called Darkened Skye. It certainly has some interesting approaches to its puzzles, though sadly it makes you have to beat monsters. On the other hand, different spells work on different creatures, so that is still  a bit of a puzzle. And it is humorous (kinda sarcastic sometimes) and at least has a few breaks between killing monsters, so it isn't all bad.

All the same, I prefer good old fashioned adventure games so I don't have to worry about shooting Pterodactyls with a "sniper" staff.
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Jeysie

I have to admit I love the free exploration aspect of many action games (particularly the 3D ones), it's all the rest of stuff that requires coordination that I hate. :P

Peace & Luv, Liz

Say

#19
Quote from: Storm on October 27, 2003, 05:04:31 PM
Wasn't it already said the game is going to be full 3D, only with a fixed camera? ???



Yes Storm, thats the idea as far as I know.


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