Author Topic: History  (Read 4448 times)

Offline Baggins

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History
« on: August 09, 2006, 09:12:08 PM »
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On a purely personal side note, that's why I like history.  More complexity that any fictional universe (though Tolkien's is pretty good), and not of these annoying contradictions.


Well real history actually does have a few contradictions, thanks to the wonderful world of first hand historians, second hand historians and revisionist historians, and traditional historians.

If you read about the same event from all 4 types and you'll swear you were reading 3-4 different events heh heh.

At least the second hand historians don't fall far from the tree.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 09:20:39 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Petra Rocks

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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 09:24:12 PM »
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Haha, well that's all I'm saying.  The beauty of fan-fiction is you can make whatever you like happen and somehow work it into the bits of truth that there is with the official storyline.

 True enough.

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Well real history actually does have a few contradictions, thanks to the wonderful world of first hand historians, second hand historians and revisionist historians, and traditional historians.

 History has no contradictions, only interpertations of it.  ;)  And bias in the ancient authors is more of an obstacle than bias among moderns.  I personally love having to read through biases to get to the bottom of a matter, but then I guess that is a matter of taste.  ::)

Offline Baggins

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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 09:34:29 PM »
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History has no contradictions, only interpertations of it.

Except when two interpretations contradict each other. Not all explanations can be true(though the real truth might share elements of each explanation). We don't live in a world of newspeak just yet.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 08:07:27 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Petra Rocks

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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 09:38:27 PM »
 Yes, I meant history ie the actual events, do not contridict.  People's idea of what those events were can differ, though usually only if they happened very long ago.  The trouble usually starts when why those events happened is argued.

Offline Baggins

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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 09:48:10 PM »
In some cases revisionists argue on if the event actually happened. That perhaps certain events we believed happen never happened, and we were told a lie in the records.

Covered up military reports and what not. ...or classified documents come out telling us what really happened.

So the history that people believed turns out not to be what really happened.

Its often said history is written by the victors. So the question is what we believe the entire truth, or what really happened.

So the real question is what we believe to be history really what happened?


So uh ya back to Hassan...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 02:08:31 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: History
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2006, 11:22:42 AM »
You should just see what happens when international history buffs get together at a major hub like the All Empires forum.  ::)  It is certainly true that it is not always agreed if a certain event happened. 

 Post 500 BC or though however, most people agree on the course of major events and campaigns.  There is no real doubt that the Julius Caesar conquered Gaul, or that the Battle of Kosovo happened in 1389.  It is true that we do not know other military and physical details, such as where the Legio IX Hispania was destroyed or how many people were in the Ottoman army at the said battle.  Most of the time however, no one really gets that worked up about it, everyone admits that Rome lost a legion on the borders now and then and that the ottomans crushed the Serbian kingdom.     

 When the fun really begins is culture.  Is Montenegro culturally Serbian, or are Montenegrians (sp?) culturally independent?    Or worst eastern Anatolia, was it "historically" Kurdish or Turkish?  I've heard Kurds accuse the Turkish government of propaganda for putting descriptions of old folk songs sung in Turkish under an Eastern Anatolian label.  ;D  And were the Romans evil aggressors who destroyed the happy free Celtic culture of Gaul or noble bearers of the white man's burden and Roman culture, who spread the benefits of civilization to backward heathen?  Few phrase it so bluntly, and if they do they get chucked out as trolls, but it comes up in things like the material culture of the pre-Roman Celts.  Not to mention the never-ending "my ancestor could've kicked your ansestors butts"  conversations.  Just see the Han dynasty China vs Roman thread at the Chinese history forum.  ::)   

  In summary, unless you are talkling about every long time ago, the main events are well known in the general sense, and the particulars are not the matter of bitter contention most of the time.  More subjective matters, particularly the spread and relative value of various nations/cultures is in my experience where the fun really begins.

Offline Deloria

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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 05:31:45 AM »
...what if... what if... there IS NO past? :P
There has to be a past!! I refuse to believe Elizabeth Tudor never existed. ;P
 
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Offline Rosella

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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 05:43:20 AM »
I think it's weird how I have no interest in history. :P I mean, when things are intriguing, I'm compelled to understand them, but the past in general doesn't fascinate me at all. :P

Like, my uncle was pointing out where my grandfather grew up. I knew it was family history and all, but I really couldn't bring myself to be interested. :P

Then he went into a rant about how just because my family was full of farmers doesn't give me a reason to distance myself from my ancestors. XD "They may not have been the smartest bunch, but they made money doing what they did..."
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Offline koko_99_2001

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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 05:46:41 AM »
I love history...especially family history. But usually, it's certain aspects of history that intrigue me and I can't get enough information on!
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Offline Yonkey

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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 08:10:41 AM »
I was never interested in history either.  But sometimes it's interesting to see how history always repeats itself.  In other words, you can actually use it to predict future events. 8)
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Offline Pacman928

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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2006, 08:31:58 AM »
I was never interested in history either.  But sometimes it's interesting to see how history always repeats itself.  In other words, you can actually use it to predict future events. 8)

thats almoast exactly what my 5th grade history teacher said.  and i still cant get in to history.
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Offline Yonkey

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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2006, 08:50:29 AM »
Don't worry, I'm not into World History since I don't care much for politics. :P  I'm more talking about recent history, and even specific stuff that has happened in your own life. 8)  Time and time again things have repeated themselves, just in different ways, so the trick is to be prepared.  That way, since you know what will happen, you can control your future. :futuristic:
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Offline Petra Rocks

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Re: History
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 08:35:42 AM »
 Funny, since I am into world history.  :P  But it's only use is political, since what we call history is the history of goverments mostly.  Of course my other hobby is trying to predict political trends, so there you go, I'm wierd.   ;D

Offline NathanialRoyale

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Re: History
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2006, 02:38:39 PM »
I love History but I dislike most politics, economics and geogrophy. I'm taking a University qualified course in Highschool right now to help with University as I am Majoring in History (Don't know what kind yet though) Want my Docterate so badly  :D

No new idea is really new as everything has been previously done before. Everything repeats itself.

I hate modern history, I don't know why, I'll learn it but I have been forced to learn WWI, WWII and the cold war three years in a row and almost nothing else. Boring now.
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Offline NathanialRoyale

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Re: History
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2006, 11:39:38 AM »
Not really, all you have to know is France is in Europe, Canada is N.A, China is in Asia  :P Sorry, no just geography like the rivers, and such things like the provinces and such of countries.
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Offline Rosella

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Re: History
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2006, 09:53:47 PM »
But so many things in histrory make sense due to geopolitics. I can't think of an example right now since I'm incredibly tired, but they do, really. :P My World History teacher is amazing at weaving the threads of history together and making them all make sense. There are so many "Oh!" moments in that class, it's a bit scary. :P

As you can see by my other post, history was NOT my thing until this year with this teacher. :P I find world history to be much more interesting than recent history, but unfortunately we're getting into it now. :-\
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 09:55:26 PM by Rosella »
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Offline NathanialRoyale

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Re: History
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2006, 12:12:04 PM »
History was okey to me but not a great love till this teacher either. He's amazing, he always adds in those unneeded little tid bits of info so that the more 'boring' aspects of the history will stick.

I don't like modern either, we are just entering the dark ages after learning about Africa and S. America.

I just hate most politics and geography it's the more boring aspects for me.
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Offline racx_00

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Re: History
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2006, 09:34:34 AM »
I am personally very interested in history! The most interesting history for me is everything that surrounds WWI and WWII.
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