FPS to Point'n'Click

[Tolan69]

Greetings Phoenix OS!

I got the demo and loved it!  It made me install all of my old Sierra adventure games! 

I just have a question for you and it's probably been asked before, but I must not have put in the right combination of words in the search to get the correct result.  Please redirect me if it has been answered before.

I have the "3d Game Programming All In One" book with a demo of Torque, which I have tried.  It seemed like a good engine to make a game, but you have intrigued me!  How did you get it to be a Point'n'Click style of gameplay?!  Did you read a tutorial on it somewhere?  If so, may I have a link to it?  If not, how did you figure it out?  I am most interested because it has given me a way to make a game that I've been wanting to work on for years now.  We can't have too many PnC adventure games!!!

Thanks in advance and keep up the good work!

[Petter Holmberg]

We started by gradually modifying the FPS demo, importing our old models and replacing the demo contents with our own stuff. For the point and click stuff we needed to add some engine modifications, based off code snippets available publicly in the Torque forums. Specifically, code to return the id and coordinates of a mouse click in the 3D view was needed. We've replaced the script code for aiPlayers from the running around and shooting stuff that is in the FPS demo to code that makes them walk to defined points.

The Torque forums are great for finding out more about how to do these things. I also think you should check out the RTS starter kit because it seems to include mouse functions and other stuff that would make it a lot easier to create a game similar to TSL than the way we've done it. Torque is not exactly ideal for this kind of game (it's really designed with network games in mind) but with the full license you can tweak it as you want of course.

I'd highly recommend that you check out some alternative engines though if all you want to do is your own adventure game. If you're happy enough with it not being full 3D there are plenty of good engines to choose from. The reason I'm saying this is that I think it's hardly worth all the trouble we've gone through. If you are making the game yourself or with a development team of only a few persons I think you'll find it would take a lot of time to reach your goal.

[Tolan69]

I thank you for the reply.

I'm interested in making it in 3d for at least one of the same reasons you do...the great camera work you can do! 

I'll take a look at all that you mentioned.  Thanks again!

[Tolan69]

Sorry for a double post, but...

I checked out the RTS starter kit....  it sounds really good, but the commercial liscense is $250 (+$500 for the Torque engine  commercial liscense)... is it just me or does that seem really steep....  especially if you have more than one comp with it?!

[oberonqa]

Sorry for a double post, but...

I checked out the RTS starter kit....  it sounds really good, but the commercial liscense is $250 (+$500 for the Torque engine  commercial liscense)... is it just me or does that seem really steep....  especially if you have more than one comp with it?!

Thats actually a very cheap price for an engine license.  The Doom 3 engine license for example is sitting in the 7-8 figure range and that doesn't include royalties.

[Tolan69]

The EULA reads:
(b) Licensee may not distribute the source code to the engine and Starter Kit in any manner, unless recipient also has a license to the Engine.

What I get from it is that as long as everyone you're working with has a license for the engine, they can run off of the same license for the RTS kit.  My head gets empty when I start reading legal stuff....  am I reading it right?


7figures for the engine?  X_X  Well, it is a more modern engine, not to say that Torque isn't any good.

[oberonqa]

The EULA reads:
(b) Licensee may not distribute the source code to the engine and Starter Kit in any manner, unless recipient also has a license to the Engine.

What I get from it is that as long as everyone you're working with has a license for the engine, they can run off of the same license for the RTS kit.  My head gets empty when I start reading legal stuff....  am I reading it right?


7figures for the engine?  X_X  Well, it is a more modern engine, not to say that Torque isn't any good.

What that basically means is each person who is going to be working with the source code for either the engine or the starter kit MUST have a license.  That means each person must have a Torque Engine license and an RTS Starter Kit license. 

Obviously this can get expensive really quickly.  If I were you, I would look into getting an Indie License (which only costs $100 per license).  That way, instead of spending $750 for 1 Commercial License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License, your spending $350 for 1 Indie License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License. 

The Commercial License is more for developing a game for commercial distribution (when Sierra used the Torque engine to make Tribes 2, they used a Commercial License for example).  I'm not entirely sure what license Phoenix Online Studios is using for the development of TSL, but I'd be willing to bet their using Indie Licenses because:

a) It's cheaper (especially considering TSL is not receiving venture capital from investors or publishers to develop TSL)

b) TSL is going to be distributed as freeware with no revenue being generated by the distribution of the game (which falls squarely within the realm of what the Indie License covers).

[Tolan69]

If I were you, I would look into getting an Indie License (which only costs $100 per license).  That way, instead of spending $750 for 1 Commercial License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License, your spending $350 for 1 Indie License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License. 

I wish I could do that, but the commercial license for the kit can only work with the commercial license for the engine.  The indie license for the RTS kit is $50.

I was just planning on putting a lot of detail in it and just wanted to try to get some money from it.  I guess I could get the engine and try to tweak it like the TSL crew did.

[oberonqa]

If I were you, I would look into getting an Indie License (which only costs $100 per license).  That way, instead of spending $750 for 1 Commercial License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License, your spending $350 for 1 Indie License and 1 RTS Starter Kit License. 

I wish I could do that, but the commercial license for the kit can only work with the commercial license for the engine.  The indie license for the RTS kit is $50.

I was just planning on putting a lot of detail in it and just wanted to try to get some money from it.  I guess I could get the engine and try to tweak it like the TSL crew did.

Then go with the Indie License for the RTS Starter Kit as well... That brings your price down to $150 per license set instead of $750 per license set.  I understand you want to make something and earn some money off of it... but until you know what your getting into, $750 is a bit much.

Look at it from this perspective:  You throw $750 into the licenses and for one reason or another decide to stop before you've finished your project, you have wasted $750.  That's a car payment + insurance for one month.  Or it could be rent + utilities for one month.  And if you stop in mid-project (which happens quite a bit especially when you run into problems), you've thrown that money away. 

Whereas with $150, you get the licenses and the tools so you can do your project and learn the engine and if you stop in mid-project, your not eating as much of a loss.

Consider the Indie Licenses as a try-before-you-commit option.  They enable you to work with the engine and source code so you can learn how things work.  You make a freeware game or two on that license to learn how the engine works and increase your knowledge of the engine for $150.  Then, after that, once you have a firm foundation of knowledge regarding the engine, you can go and purchase (or upgrade your licenses if that's an option) to Commercial and then make the game you have in your head right now. 

By going at it that way, not only will you save money if things go bad, but you'll be able to increase your productivity when it comes time to make the commercial game (which means you'll be able to get right into making the commercial game rather than learning as you go while meeting development milestones).

I'm sorry if I'm being blunt here, but everyone and their mother wants to make something... be it a book, a game, a movie, a CD, a comic, or whatever.  Everyone has an idea.  But not everyone has the resources, the time, the knowledge, or the willpower to turn that idea into something tangible... let alone sellable.

So take your time.  Making a Tetris clone in Torque may not sound all that exciting... but the knowledge you'll get while making that Tetris clone will help you make other games in Torque.  And you'll also get the benefit of having seen something from inception to completion... which increases your self-esteem and drive when it comes to doing your next game.

Rome was not built in day.

[Tolan69]

VERY good points!  And I thank you for responding so quickly.  I've considered getting the indie license now.  Right now it's just me and a friend I've known for years....  anyway, thanks!

[oberonqa]

No problem.  Good luck with whatever you decide and let us know how things turn out. 

[Petter Holmberg]

I may be wrong here, and I haven't checked it, but I don't think the commercial license gives you an engine that's any different. It's just that if you are a commercial developer you will be expected to pay more for it, and perhaps you get direct support and such from the Torque staff and such too. You definitely want to go for the indie license. That's all you need, and you get a complete engine with it anyway. We use the indie license too. With Tribes 2 it's another matter, because they didn't actually use Torque. Torque is based on the engine they created for Tribes 2.