Mannannan

[Bludshot]

She didn't die in the remake either.

Hehe

Valanice: "Strange, I can't see Hagatha's body."

DUN DUN DUNNN!!!!!

[Nilan]

Well I think it's been pretty much confirmed that Alhazred WILL return in some form or another -- as I remember reading this game starts off with Alexander at his trial. Surely they're not going to just leave that hanging there when most of the game stays in the Green Isles.

and IMO, Mannannan's just GOTTA come back! He's one of the most successful Video Game villians in history, and the best of the KQ series! How he was the main antagonist but always around and you were always afraid of him. That's pretty rare. He's right up there with Fallout's "The Master" and Star Control II's "Ur-Quan".

Heck, I'd volunteer he should be considered to be the most powerful villian you ever did face... it would be so predictable for the latest villian to be "the most powerful you have yet faced... AGAIN!"

"What? But I thought I faced the most terrible villian in King's Quest IV?"

"Oh no... this one, uh, is MUCH more powerful. Yeah. So like, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!"

[angel0fmus1c]

I think it would be awesome for Mananan (sp?) to come back! Maybe in all the time since III he's learned how to do some more magic in cat form? Eek! Scary!

[Rosella]

Manannan is his name.

And I'm not so sure if cats can do magic... Maybe if there were a good explanation, I'd be for it, but generally, Manannan is a bit crippled right now.

[tessspoon]

Do we have any idea at all how old Manannan is? I was reading a review on Sierra Planet (do I spend too much time on anything KQ? You bet. ) and they mentioned centuries... I wonder how many times he's actually gone through the kidnapping cycle.

And who's more powerful? Manannan or Mordack?

[PirateKingChris]

I think Manannan just cause he's older and scarier, is more powerful.

[tessspoon]

In terms of magical power, my first thought was Manannan too.

Manannan probably has more experience being older (do we know for that for sure, btw?) but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean more raw power. He can somehow kidnap many babies without anyone knowing he was too blame. He's able to turn anybody into a pile of ash without even his wand, or turn people into things or teleport them at least a small distance away. He's able to hold control over a small town.

Mordack was able to miniaturize a whole castle and the people inside it though. But he seemed to have been much more limited when he didn't have his wand to help him.

The manual says Manannan "was, indeed, a powerful wizard", so Mordack would have to be even more so to outmatch his brother.

Course, I guess you could say that they just have different strengths in different areas of magic, maybe, or that Mordack is just less experienced. After all, we didn't get to see what he would have been capable of had he had his wand when he confronted Graham, and he did have some formidable protections at his castle.

As for the age question, I reread the manual and it sorta answered it. He's lived since "a long long time ago when magic was the only science known to man" and "of great age".

...and I this thread is in the plot section... which I just realized... and this doesn't have much to do with the TSL plot...

[Bludshot]

I think he should make an appearance, but more as a joke or just another chance to kick him.

[Boogeyman]

I think I need to point out that Mordack was able to use Iconmancy without a wand, even though Alexander said that was impossible in the Companion. He used that last of his wand's energy to kill Cedric(or Graham, if Cedric was never saved).
"It goes without saying that the spellcaster must be in possession of a potently charged Wand of Magic during this act. Few magics work properly, if at all, without the stick of sorcery to channel and propel the magical energies through the aether from the caster to its culmination. Iconmancy is not one of the exceptions."

[PirateKingChris]

Yes but does Manannan use a wand when he casts ANY spell?

[tessspoon]

Yes but does Manannan use a wand when he casts ANY spell?

Not any that we saw anyways, I think.

I think I need to point out that Mordack was able to use Iconmancy without a wand, even though Alexander said that was impossible in the Companion.

Really?
*really wishes her Companion hadn't already been packed up and sent back home*
How does he think Mordack did the Iconmancy then? Cause his wand was useless at the point, right?

I guess what I was thinking was that Manannan was able to perform a very lethal spell to kill with little effort while Mordack had to rely on Iconmancy, but now that I think about, it probably would have been just as lethal except that Graham was able to counter it with the same magic.

[Baggins]

I probably should note, that in Companion's version of the KQ5 story, Mordack was still using his wand, to assist the shape changing. Even though it was "nearly worthless" compared to the newly charged wand Graham was using. It was weakened but not completely drained.

"You have nearly destroyed my wand. "you shall pay for this--now...back and forth between the great wizard who wielded an almost useless wand, and the great king who defended himself with a powerful one."

So when taking Alexander's article in context with the related elements of Derek's version of the KQ5 story. One can see Alexander's interpretation that a wand of some type was needed to cast iconomancy spells (no exceptions), and hopefully a fully charged one (although a weak wand will work, if a powerful sorcerer is using it).

Note Alexander's article also notes that Mordack was using his wand for the various spells as well;

"Mordack threw at my father spells potent enough to defeat great necromancers with just the wave of his wand."

[DarkTerror]

Iconomancy is like the Cole's notes of magick. Mordack just used some quick, easy to remember spells to fight Graham because he couldn't point a finger and disintegrate someone.

I think Mordack's magic was a lot flashier while Mannanan's magic was much more subtle. While Mordack was good, Mannanan probably set the bar to him as his older brother.

Anyone notice that there's sort of a big age difference between Mordack and Mannanan? And one thing that comes to mind is that Mordack looks sort of dark skinned in comparison to Mannanan.

[Baggins]

Granted, according to Alexander's opinion, Mordack was the "most powerful mage" he had ever seen. He may have based that on Mordack's ability to shrink the castle, as well as the fight he witnessed.

Speaking of Mordack's appearance, I was watching an old movie, Jack the Giant Killer not long ago, and Mordack looks quite a bit like the evil, Wizard Pendragon, in the movie. Both have island fortresses too, LOL.

[PirateKingChris]

And one thing that comes to mind is that Mordack looks sort of dark skinned in comparison to Mannanan.

I think that's cause Mordack went to that beach and spent alot of time in the sun. 

[Baggins]

I was reading an article in the, "Inside the Chest" program that came with the early King's Quest collection, where Mordack is said to be the "most powerful wizard" as well.

[alethiometer]

She didn't die in the remake either.

In that case, I guess it's safe to assume I'm just crazy.

Actually, you might have mixed her up with the witch in KQ1, who you can push into the cauldron to kill her.


As for Manannan, while it's possible he might be alive, it's also true that you can trap him in the pea sack in KQ5 and basically leave him for dead. Plus, with Mordack dead, who would feed the cat? And he's on a frikkin volcanic island in the middle of nowhere. I think it's pretty safe to assume Manannan is rather well disposed of.

Of course, I suppose that's what we always assume when we underestimate our great villains...

[Karygurl]

KQIII was the first game in the King's Quest series I ever played and Manannan STILL gives me shivers.

Two things: first, in regards to Mordack's wand, I'm almost positive it's not dead. After Graham uses the machine, if you examine it, the text says something along the lines of, "Mordack's wand barely fizzles, while Crispin's wand now sparkles with life." So, I'm betting he's still using it, if it's still got a bit of juice left.

Also, while the return of Manannan intrigues me, beyond getting out of the bag and off the island, he's still in cat form. The whole point of Mordack showing up in KQV was to get Alexander to reverse the spell, because he was the only one who could do it, and as someone mentioned, Mordack was one of the most powerful wizards he'd ever seen. So, unless Shadrack is much more powerful (which is likely, but only to an extent), Alexander is still the one that needs to undo the spell.

Now that brings up the question of, if Manannan does come back, what would make Alexander do such a thing. Say, Cassima's taken by the Black Cloak Society and Manannan can lead him to where she's being held captive, etc etc. That's really cheesy, but you get the idea.

[Boogeyman]

KQIII was the first game in the King's Quest series I ever played and Manannan STILL gives me shivers.

Two things: first, in regards to Mordack's wand, I'm almost positive it's not dead. After Graham uses the machine, if you examine it, the text says something along the lines of, "Mordack's wand barely fizzles, while Crispin's wand now sparkles with life." So, I'm betting he's still using it, if it's still got a bit of juice left.

Also, while the return of Manannan intrigues me, beyond getting out of the bag and off the island, he's still in cat form. The whole point of Mordack showing up in KQV was to get Alexander to reverse the spell, because he was the only one who could do it, and as someone mentioned, Mordack was one of the most powerful wizards he'd ever seen. So, unless Shadrack is much more powerful (which is likely, but only to an extent), Alexander is still the one that needs to undo the spell.

Now that brings up the question of, if Manannan does come back, what would make Alexander do such a thing. Say, Cassima's taken by the Black Cloak Society and Manannan can lead him to where she's being held captive, etc etc. That's really cheesy, but you get the idea.

Couple of things I need to mention:

1. Mordack's wand was certaintly dead after he cast the first spell, the one that killed Cedric(or Graham, if Cedric was not rescued).

2. Chrispinophur made it perfectly clear that only Alexander can reverse the spell.

[PirateKingChris]

It's an interesting idea that maybe you have to change Mannannan back to save Cassima though...Do I think it'll happen? No. But it would be interesting.