The Christians against HP stuff

[Drunken Chinchilla]

 

remember you are slave of what you say and master of what you dont.

Wise words Say, very wise

Sorry if I'm coming accross as only seeing this from my point, I DO understand why people fiercely devoted to their beliefs could find reasons not read HP/not let their kids read HP but I could never imagine being so devoted to a single thing to deny myself or others of something as important as literature. I suppose unless you are someone who disagrees with HP you'll never really totally "get" why they don't agree. Still its making good discussion and helping me with my coursework hehe. If only I'd taken sociology I'd have a near limitless amount of source material here!

[StephieSama]

I'd love to join in the controversy talk, but since I've sworn off of it, I think I'll just observe.

I have a diary on TeenOpenDiary, and there, its kind of "cool" to be controvercial and yell at other people for voicing their opinions, and about a year ago, I just got tired of it and swore off talking about controvercial topics on the internet.

[Jeysie]

Believe it or not, you can actually say about anything hence you do have freedom, if you didnt you wouldnt be able to say ANYTHING AT ALL, and perhaps, you wouldnt even have HP books there at all, so you cant please everyone at once, sadly they are a minority but even so they do have space to speak their mind regardless, because that's what freedom is about, I think. It is not about restriction its about them being able to say what they want to say, even if you think they are wrong.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with my opinion on the matter. (I do that a lot, unfortunately. )

I have no problem with people speaking their minds against something... it's their right, and they can protest all they like with my blessing. It's when people start placing unwanted restrictions on other people without some kind of objective proof that the thing they're restricting is harmful... that's what bugs me.

If religious people want to avoid doing a certain thing, and speak out about that thing being wrong, I'm not going to begrudge them that. (Be a little annoyed, perhaps, but hey, that's *my* right. ) But this thing of trying to push people who don't share their tenets into not doing something, with nothing more to go on than what they deem to be Holy Text, that I disagree with.

And then there's the whole matter of taking action on something without first researching what you're taking action on.

And yes, words (and therefore books) *can* be dangerous things. But it's a matter of *what* ideas they convey, not *how* they convey those ideas. Plus, if we refused to let people do/say things because they were "dangerous" (i.e., disruptive to the status quo), we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages or something.

(Actually, if people didn't find a way to do/say "dangerous" things, we wouldn't even have Christianity, for that matter.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Say]

the problem about it that you guys may fail to see its that if you get carried away you are being exactly the same as they are but in different ways, ironic but its how its being seen cuz I read from the beggining and during the heat of it there were made heavy asumptions that IMHO, you haven't research either. I dont see anyone around here being a parent, neither being inside the shoes of someone like that, so its back and forth.

We may read an article about it and asume we know the -news-, but that's the -event-, we know nothing about the people involved, (for the most I find it a bit odd myself), I dont judge who is christian and who is not, or what is or what is not, who is restrincting what or not, Im sad they have a problem with it cuz I think those books kick ass but honestly, deep down myself, they can do as they want, you must respect in order to get it back, if I dont want them telling me what to do so I should act the same way. Even if they choose to be in dark ages. You cant save the world, you can only save yourself.

So as I see it, it is so easy to judge and so hard to understand, that I rather pick neither. But I am aware that Im not going to tell someone what is christian and what is not, or who I think they are or not because I dont want noone stepping in my limits neither I would try to convert them to agree to what I say. Tolerance is a delicate art I see noone practice.

[copycat]

Unfortunately, you've got fanatics in every religion. I consider myself a free Christian. I don't follow it vividly, but I live by the general principles of it. Don't know anyone why didn't read the HP books out of their religious so I won't comment on it either.  Everyone has a right to have their own opinion, but it gets awkward if their own opinion is interfering with someone else's 'free space'. I won't tell anyone else not to read a book I don't like.

[FataliOmega]

Ok... i skipped a lot of what you guys said simply cuz theres so little to read, and so much time... (strike that... reverse it)

Im a Christian and I, unfortunately, have run into a couple Christians who have some reservations about HP...

Their MAIN problem being that HP makes Witches and Warlocks out as sometimes good people and real life magic as a good thing. In actuallity, this is never the case. Magic according to the Bible is evil in everyway and there NEVER is a good use for it

and since HP is more closely linked to "reality" and its aimed at kids... many Christians are afraid that it might convince them that Witchcraft and the like is good....

Now, In LOTR no magic is ever used thats good. Even Gandalf and his powers are described simply as "powers"... In fact, magic doesnt turn up at all in LOTR... Read the Silmarillion and the Christian influences become apparent.

C.S. Lewis also takes the "anti-magic" stance in Narnia... Who has magic? the Witchqueen... is she good? No
Furthermore, C.S. Lewis condemns magic in "That Hideous Strength" (third book of his space trilogy)

So... thats their defense and argument... I personally dont have much of a problem with HP (ive read all the books... cant wait for the next one too...) But I do respect the position i described above...

As for JK Rowlings be a "Satanist" and HP being a "Demon Worshiper".... thats just plain bull!

BTW... when is the next HP book due out? Anyone know?

[Jeysie]

CC's got it right about the "free space". I'm not telling the Christians, or anyone else, what to do. I'm just saying I think it's sad that they restrict kids from doing something that they think is harmful from a subjective perspective rather than an objective one. Since AFAIK there aren't any Christian parents trying to restrict non-Christian kids from reading the books, I'm not really any more than just sad at the matter. After all, Christian parents have a right to raise their kids the way they see fit. I have the right to disagree with it, but I don't have the right to stop them, and wouldn't wish to anyway.

I don't have a problem with people speaking their minds, ever. I might feel sad if people create restrictions for people of their own "group" if I think the restrictions are unwarranted, but it's still their right. It's only when a group of people tries to restrict the actions of everyone, even people who *don't* share their beliefs, that I get uptight. And I won't apologize for that... after all, if I wanted to be answerable to a certain group's set of rules, I would join that group. I don't need them pushing their rules on me.

So, yeah, this sort of thing makes me sad, and seeing as how the topic came up, I'll state my feelings on the matter. But make an actual counter-protest, no.

I may try to respect other people's opinions, but that doesn't mean I can't have a dissenting opinion of my own, ya know.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[FataliOmega]

I know what you mean... For me, I was taught what was right and wrong... but unlike many Christian familys... they also taught me the all important "Why?"
You can bet my lil bro watches HP!  

[Jeysie]

Their MAIN problem being that HP makes Witches and Warlocks out as sometimes good people and real life magic as a good thing. In actuallity, this is never the case. Magic according to the Bible is evil in everyway and there NEVER is a good use for it.

Truth be told, I don't think magic exists at all... at least, not in any of the "sterotypical" forms. But even if it did... I never really did understand why the Christians think *all* magic is evil. I mean, what about the idea of "white magic", where a spell is cast to do good? In fact, IIRC, the main credo of Wiccans is the gist of "Do what you will, as long as it harms no one." Wiccans don't allow themselves to cast spells unless it benefits everyone, and causes no harm. Anything that benefits people (or at least doesn't cause harm) doesn't seem evil to me.

To me, magic would be like technology... it's not inherently good or evil... it depends on how you choose to use it, and why.

I guess it's worth noting that my own moral code revolves around the questions of "Does it harm anyone?" and "Does it benefit anyone?". So there's a lot of stuff that Christians get cranky about that I end up scratching my head over, because I don't see how those things are harming anyone... and indeed some of them may even be benefitting someone.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Drunken Chinchilla]

When will the sixth book in the Harry Potter series be published?



There is no deadline for this book, so no publication date has been set

Thats from bloomsburys, her publisher. I hope she can make the summer deadline though, it was kinda nice having Harry age year by year. Still I suppose the three year wait for phoenix has kinda ruined that idea

In a way I don't want it to come out as its going to be smaller than Phoenix which means I'll finish even quicker and have an even longer wait for the final book (which is going to be absultely huge according to J.K. Rowling)

[FataliOmega]

but... but... what about the movies?? I want to see all 7 books in movie form! *sniff*  

oh well... I wanted a sixth Tex Murphy game too, and that never happened...

(a 5th MI game... Babylon 5 Crusades finished....  Antioch Chronicles Episode 3... gee.. a lot of things...)

atleast theres going to be a KQ9... power to you guys  

[Oldbushie]

Thanks!

We won't disappoint.

[Jeysie]

Babylon 5 Crusades finished....

All right, another Babylon 5 Crusade fan! Whoo!

Uh, that's all.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Drunken Chinchilla]

but... but... what about the movies?? I want to see all 7 books in movie form! *sniff*  

Noooo don't worry it just means she's being sensible about writing the books, it will get released After writing the fourth book she was having a breakdown due to 5 years of constant writing so she said to the publishers I don't want a deadline to work, hence no date o look forward to and casue more pressure for her!

[FataliOmega]

lol! It's good to see that my ramblings mean something to you Jeysie.   and I thought I was the only Babylon 5 freak out there.... This forum never ceases to amaze me (not that thats very hard   )

[Say]

And Stephie, I can understand that! I'd like to say though, that unlike a lot of forums and so forth online, we're rather respectful and open-minded here, and if anyone attacks anyone else for an opinion of theirs, be sure Say & Yonkey will kick some ass on that guy or gal ;-) Don't be afraid to share your thoughts here, by all means! No one's going to burn you for being a witch - hahaha. ;-)

hahaha *cracks knuckles*  

[Jeysie]

Fair enough... and if it really worked like that, Id be the first one to learn white magic... the supernatural is divided into two camps... God, and Satan (God is infinitely more powerful than satan... so its not a good and evil balance or anything...) and 'magic' according to the Bible is only Satan's doing and is only for evil. There is no other kind of 'magic.' But yeah, its pretty much a dead argument.

Is it a matter of, magic powers can only come from Satan, therefore that magic is always evil, even if you do good deeds with it? That makes a certain amount of sense... although as you can probably guess, I disagree. Actually, speaking of Babylon 5 and Crusade, Jeanne Cavelos' Technomages novel trilogy deals with posing that "question" rather effectively.

At any rate, I agree with Katie... the Biblical definition of magic and the literary "definition" of magic have little do with each other. Of course, the Christian defintion of magic likely has little to do with anything except the Christian definition of magic. (shrug)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[KatieHal]

Is it a matter of, magic powers can only come from Satan, therefore that magic is always evil, even if you do good deeds with it? That makes a certain amount of sense... although as you can probably guess, I disagree. Actually, speaking of Babylon 5 and Crusade, Jeanne Cavelos' Technomages novel trilogy deals with posing that "question" rather effectively.

At any rate, I agree with Katie... the Biblical definition of magic and the literary "definition" of magic have little do with each other. Of course, the Christian defintion of magic likely has little to do with anything except the Christian definition of magic. (shrug)

Peace & Luv, Liz

A theorem & logic procedure.

Well, if Satan can come up with magic, then by default God must be able to, too...as there is nothing God cannot do. So is magic from God also evil? Well, no God is good. So all things coming from God are also good, right? Okay. So magic from God must be good, as well.

Yay logic.

[copycat]

I guess the Flemish have become too detached from religion to not notice this 'Christians against HP books'-issue. Sure, there are probably some minor groups here who are also against those books, but they keep their assesment to themselves. It is not publised, at least not in a noticeable manner. Like I said, I consider myself a free Christian, but I've read all books, and I see no problem in the use of magic.
If anyone's watched Buffy, you can see that a white wicca (Willow) can turn into a black wicca due to strong (negative) emotions but she can turn into a white wicca again by other strong (positive) emotions. Once again an example of how, even the same person, can use magic for good or bad, in other words, for good and evil. In HP, the good guys only use magic in a good way and the bad guys do magic in a bad way. They may even use the same spell, but they'll use it in a different way.

[copycat]

There's really nothing I can add to that post, Jeysie. Some of your reply was something I would have written, had you not beaten me to it.