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In Defense of MoE

Started by CaptainNeatoman, August 27, 2009, 03:29:41 PM

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Haids1987

Quote from: dark-daventry on August 30, 2009, 08:47:09 PM
...Connor in Birthday Suit (love that one lol).
:o   Did he have nothing to cover his shame?!
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Perpetually. ;D
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CaptainNeatoman

Rosella, I stand corrected. I still think you see my point though.

dd, I have Vista 64 as well. The only solution I've been able to get working is to set up a virtual PC with XP and install MoE in the virtual environment.  You can get MS Virtual PC here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/

Hopefully you've still got an XP disc somewhere to install. It's a lot to go through just to play a game, but it was worth it in the end.  Only problem is no d3d support, but it's better than nothing.
Lay off Connor.  He saved the universe, dammit.

atec123

Quote from: dark-daventry on August 30, 2009, 08:47:09 PM
The fan remake you mentioned, although downgrading the graphics, also intends to improve the plot significantly and make it closer to Roberta's intended product. One of the main reasons it's being done in the KQV style, to my knowledge at least, is because making a 3D game just isn't that easy, especially for a group of fans. TSL has taken about nine years to make, and through out that time they've had team members come and go, they've had legal hurdles to overcome. Making a MoE remake in the style you envisioned, while indeed possible, isn't all that easy, and it would take a long time. I would love to see a remake of it in any form.
Yeah.  Those were pretty much the reasons I thought KQV style would be the best.  I am good at AGS and could get even better.  I can't exactly make the graphics.  But I think it's easier to get a team of 2D artists than 3d artists, especially once you have something to show (like a written out plot or something that I could make without graphics.)

As for Moe.  I am actually trying to get it working right now and play it again.  I have not played it in a while.
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dark-daventry

I have no idea if I have a copy of XP lying around anywhere. I still have my old laptop which had xp on it, but I don't know if I have the discs for it. Either way, I don't want to lug two computers to school to play MoE at lunch on one, and do everything else on the other. Perhaps a fan should take it upon themselves to make a new patch for moe that includes all previous patches and compatibility with vista. I've tried running it in xp compatibility mode, and it's not come close to working. Or, we could wait until sarien.net gets advanced enough to play moe. But I will say that moe is a decent game even with all it's kinks. It sure could use a lot of improvement, particularly a better ending, but it could stand on its own two feet if we all pitch in to give it a makeover, kings quest style. One thing that's big right now with N64 emulation is retexturing. Perhaps someday retexturing will come to moe. If anyone knows how to retexture a game, that'd be great lol. But either way, I'd take a remake of moe in any form it takes. As long as it is closer to robertas intended vision then I'm happy.
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Storm

Quote from: CaptainNeatoman on August 30, 2009, 07:50:55 PMSince I started this thread, four people have replied to disagree with me.  Of these four, two have never played MoE, one admits to not enjoying action games in general, and the fourth can't recall if he's thinking of the right game, yet all four disparage MoE.  I would like to suggest that perhaps this is actually making my point for me about the game being unfairly prejudged.

I don't think this means people are prejudging MOE unfairly. If people don't play MOE because because they don't enjoy fighting, I'd say that's a pretty fair prejudgement. If people don't bother playing MOE because what they've seen/heard about it leads them to believe the game is a very far cry from the KQ series, I don't see why they should feel compelled to play it over any other fantasy action/adventure game that doesn't have "King's Quest" in its title.

As for me, it isn't really fair to say I prejudged MOE just because I don't enjoy action games. I mean, I enjoy RPGs just fine, but I still don't think I'd appriciate having RPG-style battles in a King's Quest game :-\
I'd like to think I tried to give MOE a fair shake back when I played it. Before I started I even thought, "Ok, so there'll be a little obligatory fighting to go through... but heck, it's still King's Quest! it was made by Roberta! it couldn't be THAT bad, right?" (Wrong. Dead wrong :-[)
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Bludshot

It was a risk to try and make adventure games more popular which clearly didn't work out.  Still I think MOE is better or at least on par with some of the KQ games. Especially 2 and 5, and to a lesser extent 4.
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CaptainNeatoman

Hey Storm-

I think you misunderstood me a little bit.  I was not saying that you prejudged the game, because you obviously played it.  I just think that since you don't like action games, you might not have really enjoyed it even if it were the greatest action game ever made.  For that reason, I was kind of exempting you from everything else I said in that post.   I simply want to encourage those people who haven't played it because they've heard that it was terrible to give it a shot for themselves, like you did.

Anyway, at least a few other people have posted that they enjoyed the game.  That's really all I was looking for.  Some validation. :)



Lay off Connor.  He saved the universe, dammit.

Storm

Sorry, it looked to me like you were saying my opinion of MOE is somehow invalid or carries less weight because I don't like action games :-\
You're right, I probably wouldn't enjoy an action game even if it were greatest one ever made. But I might have enjoyed MOE more, despite the combats, if it made the slightest effort to make you feel like you're playing a KQ game and not some random action game with a couple of puzzles and King Graham dropped into it so they can put 'King's Quest' on the box :(

I'm not saying MOE is such a bad game in itself - I didn't exactly suffer horribly every minute while playing it, and I can understand why some people like it. I'm just saying that if you're buying it because you expect it to by anything like King's Quest, you'll probably be very disappointed.
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

jtrippy

I know I'm not contributing much to this topic, but I'd just like to say -- MoE was a thoroughly enjoyable game, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it being a huge departure. The bottom line is that what adventure gaming needed was something, and something fast, to preserve and extend it's mainstream appeal. Crossing over into the action and RPG genres was a really smart move, but forsaking the series was far from necessary. This could have easily been a standalone game, or even a spin-off, but I knew I was playing a whole different kind of game when one of the puzzles involved climbing on a roof top and dropping down on an unsuspecting baddie, slashing his throat while blood spurted everywhere. I'm no prude, and I love violent video games like anybody does but... why King's Quest? Fantasy violence is one thing, but the blood spurting was just absurd and kind of uncalled for.

Boogeyman

"Crossing over into the action and RPG genres was a really smart move"
Not really, unless you're talking about Quest for Glory.
I don't narrate for stinky kings!

dark-daventry

Just to be clear, as far as my knowledge serves me, the RPG genre is an offshoot of the adventure genre, meaning it was created from it. So it's not really crossing over, considering it's technically within the same family... Also, MoE was more of an action adventure game than an RPG, at least to me. I did enjoy MoE in some respects (I played it when I was younger, with my dad, and somehow never got nightmares... Quite the opposite actually...), but the fact remains that I can't consider it a true King's Quest game because Roberta Williams lost creative freedom while making it. She had a radically different version in her mind than the final product. The game that you played was not the one that the creator of the King's Quest series had intended. It is a good game in it's own right, and I found it quite enjoyable at some parts (particularly with the cheats; Connor in his birthday suit is hilarious!), but we may never see how the game was supposed to have been. There is currently a "remake" of MoE out there that intends to make the game as close to Roberta's intended vision as possible, while also downsizing the graphics to VGA. It's an ambitious project, and I suggest you check it out. Sadly, I lack the web address for it, and I've no idea whether the project is still in development, but it's an intriguing idea nonetheless.
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Gay and proud of it!

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Suzie

#31
Quote from: dark-daventry on January 05, 2010, 07:01:49 AM
Just to be clear, as far as my knowledge serves me, the RPG genre is an offshoot of the adventure genre, meaning it was created from it.

You're wrong about that, the video-game RPG genre is an offshoot to the tabletop RPGs, the first computer RPG and Adventure game was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, it was simply called Adventure, so you could say that the Adventure game genre is an off-shoot to the RPG genre and not the other way around, and text-RPGs and text-Adventures very clearly branched off at one point. They were, in their early text-only days harder to distinguish from traditional Adventure games than they are now though, but there was nevertheless a clear distinction in their heavy focus on role-playing elements and combat compared to traditional puzzle-solving Adventure games. :)


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dark-daventry

Quote from: Suzie on January 05, 2010, 07:22:33 AM
Quote from: dark-daventry on January 05, 2010, 07:01:49 AM
Just to be clear, as far as my knowledge serves me, the RPG genre is an offshoot of the adventure genre, meaning it was created from it.

You're wrong about that, the video-game RPG genre is an offshoot to the tabletop RPGs, the first text-RPGs existed around the same time as the first text Adventure games as far as I remember but were not created from them. They were, in their early text-only days harder to distinguish from traditional Adventure games than they are now, but there was nevertheless a clear distinction in their heavy focus on role-playing elements and combat. :)

Thank you for correcting me. I was not entirely positive on that, but now I know. RPGs are, in my eyes, a form of modern day adventure games. Fable to me seems like it's an evolved form of an adventure game, but that's just me. But I guess it makes sense that tabletop RPGs evolved into RPG video games.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan