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The Silver Lining - Cease and Desist

Started by Yonkey, February 27, 2010, 08:59:56 PM

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alethiometer

This is really ridiculous on many levels.
How can they be such uptight fuckers about this? It makes no sense why they would get any gain out of stopping this project. No f***ing sense.
Plus, how do they have any legal authority to shut down the forums? Someone cite me a law that says anything about not being able to TALK about something that was INSPIRED by copryrighted material. That just seems like way too far a stretch of the law to make any sense whatsoever. That would basically mean that any fansite forums ever should be taken down. Huh? And what are they gonna do, do you really think those guys would spend any effort to take down this site if we just decided to keep it up?

Honestly, I think you should just ignore their orders. Just post the game on a torrent site somewhere, it would be pretty hard to track it back to you guys if you just use an IP blocker. It makes no sense to let all your hard work go to waste.
f*** the law, I'm a pirate, arrrr.

Pacman928

Kelsey told me about the news and I had to see for myself.

I honestly don't know what to say.  This has been in development for so long...how can they just throw it all away?  It just doesn't seem fair.

They can't possibly stop people from posting in the future about it.  Fee speech and all that.  It just doesn't make any sense...

I'm in shock and I just can't get the right words to come out of my mind right now.  Some of the best times of my life were on these forums...

Neil, Cat, and any of the other mods, if I can help at all, shoot me an email.  I'll do everything I can to help you.

This seems fitting.  Whenever someone leaves forever, I say this.

With the blessing of Elune,
I send TSL off.
The friends of the deceased weep.
May your spirit live on in those who remember you.
Your memories bring joy and happiness
To all those around you.
May your journey to beyond the horizon be peaceful.
You will always be remembered.
With the blessing of Elune,
I salute you, TSL.
Our love will never end.
Our hope will never die.

The Dreaded Pac Sparrow
Former Prince of Posting
Official Video Game Mascot of the Forums
First to Achieve Groupie Rank Without Posting a Picture
Email: karatekid928@yahoo.com

HoorayForSodomy

Well parody isn't considered copyright infringement so you should just release the game but add a bunch of fart jokes to it.

waltzdancing

I will help in anyway I can. I have been completely stunned today and the best way to fight a stunned brain is to come back fighting. I work for a lawyer so any information you can shoot my way I will ask him. He is a criminal defense attorney so please email me with any questions.

kindofdoon

Let's go people, we've got a game to save!

Daniel Dichter, Production/PR
daniel.dichter@postudios.com

Haids1987

Quote from: atec123 on February 28, 2010, 07:45:25 PM
Quote from: crayauchtin on February 28, 2010, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: atec123 on February 28, 2010, 06:16:47 PM
I Could setup a website.  (Keep in mind it probably won't be ultra professional but I can setup an ok site better than what you could get with one of those free site maker thingies.

so...
I say we go for it, what do you guys think?
In that case it's likely to be better than anything I could set up. You're hired! We are going to fight this tooth and nail.
Cool man.  I will start working on some stuff tomorrow if I have time.  Too bad this didn't start earlier, haha, Saturday I would have had enough free time to set the whole thing up.

I'll help in any way I can, atec.  Count me in!
STATUS:
-Drinking water
-Checking the forum. 

Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
Leader of the "I <3 Doon" Fanclub

Banjo

Hearing about them wanting to sell off the Sierra IP has this make a LOT more sense to me now (at first, it just seemed ridiculous full stop)... I would say it is mostly a matter of timing. Let's face it, would you want to buy the rights to make the next KQ game if someone else is already doing it for free? That may not be the reality of it, but to a corporation, it would seem that way. I get that.

Closing down the forums? Clearly to "silence" the whole issue, and I seriously doubt it's legal to do so. As someone said, they can tell people not to make a game with their IP, but cannot tell people not to talk about their IP.

Frankly, I doubt a petition or such will work with these people. They don't really care if a few hundred fans are angry, so long as they aren't too public about it (hence: shutting down the forums)... they only want their money-making console gamer audience who wouldn't even know what KQ was.

As much as I'd love to say "screw 'em and leak it", now they've C&D'ed you, they'll know who to come after. The time to leak and run is before a company knows what you're doing.

I still say forget wasting years on petitions and pleas that really won't work; change names and any majorly infringing art and make it your own IP. Heck, SELL it as your own IP! You deserve it after all these years of work!

Even if you still release it for free, with enough changes, they can't legally complain. Al Emmo is so very clearly "inspired" by Leisure Suit Larry meets Freddy Pharkis, and it's a commercial game. Likewise the aforte-mentioned Les Manley games. Mass Effect has striking similarities to the Babylon 5 universe, Fallout 3 is clearly "inspired" by the TV show Jeremiah, Alien Breed, Run Like Hell, and a dozen more games wouldn't exist without the Alien franchise. Anyone ever read Terry Brooks' Sword of Shanarra? Even he is shy about its similarities to Lord of the Rings. Yet all are quite legal and commercial properties.

I mentioned Teardown's Alien Assault (born of their Space Hulk dispute with the jerks of Games Workshop)... it is - IMO - a much better game now it is free of the limits of someone else's IP.

That's not to stop a fan patch that changes character names or art, though. Unofficial mods are created for games all the time, with the right knowledge and tools.

Oh, and Ken Williams should just buy Sierra's IP back, IMO... even if he does nothing with it but resell the old games via Good Old Games or something. The dude is still a legend.

tessspoon

Hey Cat, out of curiosity, any idea how many letters you sent last time?

(Posted on: February 28, 2010, 11:19:37 PM)


holy shnaps I've never seen so many guests. broke the record of most online with 121. If only it was because the game was released, not ended. :'(

Haids1987

Quote from: Banjo on February 28, 2010, 09:12:33 PM
Oh, and Ken Williams should just buy Sierra's IP back, IMO... even if he does nothing with it but resell the old games via Good Old Games or something. The dude is still a legend.
Why don't we bring this to his attention?  dark-daventry gave me a link to a  website that has his contact info on it.  Here:

http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/blob2/blobpage.aspx/msgid/518935

I know he has stopped by here before to chat, so clearly knows about this project.  What if we designated someone to write to him?  I don't know how much he'd be able to do, but at least we'd know he knows...
STATUS:
-Drinking water
-Checking the forum. 

Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
Leader of the "I <3 Doon" Fanclub

Chris

After 8 years you have the right, legal or not, to release this game.  My opinion? They have no idea whether or not the game was actually DONE.  I say finish it regardless and leak it on every torrent site you can anonymously so the fans still get to play it.  They can't stop it once it's at the torrent level.  Just a thought.  They ask you what happened, you just say that your servers must have been hacked and a "near finished" build was stolen.  It happens ;) Fans deserve this game and you deserve to see your game enjoyed.

Xizer

I can see from your post that you, like many fan game developers, do not fully comprehend copyright law.

You don't have to be Activision's b**** just because they shot off a little letter at you whining about you developing a fan game based on their IP.

While the actual development of this game may be of questionable legality, having a message board discussing it most certainly is not illegal in any shape, form, or fashion. You did not have to remove any forums. Honestly, you don't even have to stop development of the game. Just go anonymous, and leak revisions to it to filesharing websites. If you do it properly, Activision won't be able to prove s***, and control over the situation shall remain firmly in your hands, regardless of how many letters they shoot out to you whining about your usage of their IP.

Now, if you are still so afraid of the Activision boogeyman, then I extend to you the following offer: I will host your complete message board if you want. I do not fear Activision. That's right, I am offering you hosting and responsibility for your message board; and as for continuing development of your game, I can certainly give you some tips on that... in a more... private fashion.

Thank about it before you continue bending over and taking it from a greedy game developer who does not care about their fans. Do you really want to give in to this evil entity?

-X

DJ Tyrant

Hi guys.  I just played through KQ6, heard about this game, got excited, joined the forums, and then heard about the CAD order.  That's BS.  Activision should just hire you guys and make this thing official.  It's not like the folks at POS aren't dedicated or simply in it for the money. The world needs more games like KQ, and I am sorry to hear that they pulled the rug out from under you.  I say we petition Activision to either let development proceed or they should give the people at POS jobs and proper funding so they could make this thing official.

I personally would drop some money for a new KQ game.  Who's with me?

It's nice to meet you guys, even in these dark times.

oberonqa

#112
The problem with the whole "leak it and run" idea is, as was already stated previously, not possible at this point.  If the game was "leaked" right now, it would have clearly been from someone attached to the project and with the C&D in place, that's grounds for litigation.  Remember... in court it's not so much a matter of what you KNOW as it is a matter of you can PROVE.  And a "leak" could be traced back to the team, if for no other reason the team's methods when it comes to keeping a tight lid on builds and whatnot.  They haven't leaked anything in eight years.  If something was leaked now, it would look very odd.

And of course there's the whole conversation right here on this forum thread about "leaking".  If the game was "leaked" right now, there's a half dozen posts advocating that act and there you go.

The best thing we can do right now as fans is form a petition like what was done back in 2005.  Raise awareness for that petition by making contact on Facebook and Twitter and then go from there.  If you want to do more, shoot some emails off to gaming websites with a link back to this thread and let those gaming websites make some articles about the whole thing.  The media is as much a powerful tool as a petition.

But whatever we do as fans, the most important thing of all is to remain calm and not do anything rash.  Believe me when I say that is far easier to type than it is to actually do.  This has been a serious blow to the development of this game and most certainly has been a serious blow to the development team.  By posting here, we are showing the development team how much we care about the sweat, blood, and tears they have all shed over the course of the last eight years.  I cannot speak for the development team... but I can tell you I know your kind words are appreciated and carry just as much weight as any petition or article.  

Please keep the kind words coming in and help out where you can.  What will happen will happen and I have absolute faith in Yonkey, Cat, and the development team.  I know they will do what is right and I am absolutely positive there is more to come.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Haids1987

Quote from: oberonqa on February 28, 2010, 09:57:52 PM
What will happen will happen and I have absolute faith in Yonkey, Cat, and the development team.  I know they will do what is right and I am absolutely positive there is more to come.
Hear, hear.  If the team can get through this once, they can do it twice.
STATUS:
-Drinking water
-Checking the forum. 

Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
Leader of the "I <3 Doon" Fanclub

Xizer

Quote from: oberonqa on February 28, 2010, 09:57:52 PM
The problem with the whole "leak it and run" idea is, as was already stated previously, not possible at this point.  If the game was "leaked" right now, it would have clearly been from someone attached to the project and with the C&D in place, that's grounds for litigation.  Remember... in court it's not so much a matter of what you KNOW as it is a matter of you can PROVE.  And a "leak" could be traced back to the team, if for no other reason the team's methods when it comes to keeping a tight lid on builds and whatnot.  They haven't leaked anything in eight years.  If something was leaked now, it would look very odd.

And of course there's the whole conversation right here on this forum thread about "leaking".  If the game was "leaked" right now, there's a half dozen posts advocating that act and there you go.

The best thing we can do right now as fans is form a petition like what was done back in 2005.  Raise awareness for that petition by making contact on Facebook and Twitter and then go from there.  If you want to do more, shoot some emails off to gaming websites with a link back to this thread and let those gaming websites make some articles about the whole thing.  The media is as much a powerful tool as a petition.

But whatever we do as fans, the most important thing of all is to remain calm and not do anything rash.  Believe me when I say that is far easier to type than it is to actually do.  This has been a serious blow to the development of this game and most certainly has been a serious blow to the development team.  By posting here, we are showing the development team how much we care about the sweat, blood, and tears they have all shed over the course of the last eight years.  I cannot speak for the development team... but I can tell you I know your kind words are appreciated and carry just as much weight as any petition or article.  

Please keep the kind words coming in and help out where you can.  What will happen will happen and I have absolute faith in Yonkey, Cat, and the development team.  I know they will do what is right and I am absolutely positive there is more to come.

First of all, Activision will never spend the time or money taking these guys to court. It goes against their philosophy of making a buck at all costs. Suing these guys would get them nothing and it would cost them thousands of dollars. If there's one thing you can count on when it comes to Activision, it'll be that they will not lose money. Right now it's all bark and no bite, and I'd wager that it's going to stay that way. It's a lose-lose situation for Activision.

As for actually leaking the s*** and having an unbreakable defense, this too is easy.

Leak the source and assets using a trojan to a server in Russia; then use a Chinese VPN to take materials mined with trojan off the Russian server, post to Usenet using UseNetServer (UNS doesn't keep logs). Upload via SSL for good measure. Let the rest of the Internet take its course and spread it around nice and good. :) Other handy tips: have team members' routers have open Wi-Fi access, allowing additional defenses as to how it could have leaked: someone was able to access the project via open Wi-Fi.

The only thing "rash" right now is complying with a letter sent by Activision. You can send someone a letter claiming anything. That does not mean you have power.

-X

Ugh

:(, like many I have been following you guys for years. I support ya guys, and will sign any petition. Not as elegant as the others; however, I believe that this storm shall pass eventually. We just have to wait it out.

Yonkey

Quote from: Xizer on February 28, 2010, 10:10:14 PM
Leak the source and assets using a trojan to a server in Russia; then use a Chinese VPN to take materials mined with trojan off the Russian server, post to Usenet using UseNetServer (UNS doesn't keep logs). Upload via SSL for good measure. Let the rest of the Internet take its course and spread it around nice and good. :) Other handy tips: have team members' routers have open Wi-Fi access, allowing additional defenses as to how it could have leaked: someone was able to access the project via open Wi-Fi.
LOL!

In all seriousness, as others have previously said, leaking the game is not an option for us.  We aren't anonymous and we would be the ones held liable.  Complying with the C&D is all the team can do right now.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Tage7

The team will get criticized for doing things incorrectly no matter what they do. In the end, whether they decide to remove all IP references (which would be an amazing feat with all the voice acting, I imagine) or explore other agreement options, their actions will reflect the intentions they've had with the game from the very beginning. I've known them to be very stand-up people. To me, leaking the game seems to muddy all of the love put into this game. Also, due to this love, I highly doubt they will let the project die should it come to that point.

oberonqa

Quote from: Xizer on February 28, 2010, 10:10:14 PM

First of all, Activision will never spend the time or money taking these guys to court. It goes against their philosophy of making a buck at all costs. Suing these guys would get them nothing and it would cost them thousands of dollars. If there's one thing you can count on when it comes to Activision, it'll be that they will not lose money. Right now it's all bark and no bite, and I'd wager that it's going to stay that way. It's a lose-lose situation for Activision.

As for actually leaking the sh*t and having an unbreakable defense, this too is easy.

Leak the source and assets using a trojan to a server in Russia; then use a Chinese VPN to take materials mined with trojan off the Russian server, post to Usenet using UseNetServer (UNS doesn't keep logs). Upload via SSL for good measure. Let the rest of the Internet take its course and spread it around nice and good. :) Other handy tips: have team members' routers have open Wi-Fi access, allowing additional defenses as to how it could have leaked: someone was able to access the project via open Wi-Fi.

The only thing "rash" right now is complying with a letter sent by Activision. You can send someone a letter claiming anything. That does not mean you have power.

-X

Tell that to this guy... who got a hold of New Super Mario Bros Wii 6 days before it's official launch and uploaded it to a torrent site:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/09/nintendo-australia-fines-nsmb-wii-uploader-1-5-million/

You can't say Activision won't pursue legal recourse... anymore than this aussie pirater thought Nintendo wouldn't find out he was responsible for being the first to upload a copy of NSMB.

Ignoring a C&D is not a trivial matter and I would strongly suggest you take a moment to review international copyright law before you continue to advocate ignoring the C&D.

As for taking the forums down, Yonkey has already stated the reason why they took the forums down was so they could comply with the C&D (which requires all materials related to the game in question to be taken down).  Yonkey and Cat will be going through the forums in great detail so they can better comply with the order and then put the remaining forums back in place, free of "materials related to the game in question".

(Posted on: February 28, 2010, 09:34:03 PM)


In greater thought about my suggestion about contacting gaming websites and letting them know about the situation, I have come up with the following letter which you can copy and paste when submitting to gaming websites:

BEGIN LETTER
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier today (February 28th), Activision issued a Cease and Desist order against fan developer Phoenix Online Studios, who has been hard at work on The Silver Lining, an unofficial sequel to the venerable King's Quest series.

Visitors to the game's website, located at http://www.tsl-game.com are now greeted with the following letter from the development team:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Our Fans:

In 2005, Phoenix Online Studios received a Cease & Desist letter from Vivendi Universal, the owners of the King's Quest IP, in regards to our work on The Silver Lining. We complied with the request, and over the months that followed, we were able to work out a non-commercial fan license with Vivendi that allowed us to continue our work on the game.

We have spent a lot of time recently reworking the material of The Silver Lining into episodic releases, with the first out of a planned five episodes completed, and submitted for review, and had hoped we would be able to bring our game to you, the fans, in the Spring of 2010.

Recently, however, ownership of the Sierra IP changed hands and became the property of Activision. After talks and negotiations in the last few months between ourselves and Activision, they have reached the decision that they are not interested in granting a non-commercial license to The Silver Lining, and have asked that we cease production and take down all related materials on our website.

As before, we must and will comply with this decision, as much as we may wish we could do otherwise.

We cannot say enough how much we appreciate the support we have had over these years from our fans. Without you, we would never have gotten this far. There would be no game to develop, and no one to develop it for. You have been amazing and steadfast, and we will always remember that and appreciate it more than we can say.

Sadly, after eight years of dedicated work and even more dedicated fans, The Silver Lining project is closing down.

What the future holds for us, as individuals or a team, we cannot say. We have an amazing development team, however, filled with talented and hard-working individuals, and we hope the teamwork and rapport we have developed will not go to waste. We hope that when we do know what the future holds for us, our fans will be there to enjoy what we can give them still.

Again, thank you all so much for everything. This has been a long and crazy road, full of more twists than we could have anticipated, but more triumphs and wonderful memories than we could have ever hoped for. And for that, to all of you and to everyone on our team, we will always be grateful.

Thank You,

The Silver Lining Development Team

In compliance with Activision's request, most of our forums are coming down. However, we are keeping a few new, empty forums open so fans can stay in touch with one another and with us. Please visit: http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8394.0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As many of you will recall, back in 2005, Phoenix Online Studios was issued a Cease and Desist by Vivendi Universal for the development of King's Quest IX. After a lengthy petition and review process, Vivendi Universal granted the developer a limited non-commercial license to develop their game, which was renamed "The Silver Lining".

However, with Activision's recent acquisition of Viviendi Universal's properties, the fate of The Silver Lining came into question yet again. Today that fate appears to be sealed. The Cease and Desist issued by Activision calls for the immediate cease in production of the game as well as taking down all related materials from the game's website. At this time, the game website has been taken down and the bulk of the game's community forums has been taken down by the development team in an attempt to comply with the order (though efforts are being made to go through the forum in greater detail to comply with the order and put back into place any parts of the forum that do not directly pertain to the game).

The Silver Lining began it's development in 2002 and despite many challenges and hurdles, was on track for a summer 2010 release.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END LETTER

Just copy and paste this for submission to any gaming website you regularly visit (most websites these days have a "Submit News" or "Submit a Tip" link somewhere on their site). 
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Xizer

#119
Quote from: oberonqa on February 28, 2010, 10:34:03 PM
Tell that to this guy... who got a hold of New Super Mario Bros Wii 6 days before it's official launch and uploaded it to a torrent site:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/09/nintendo-australia-fines-nsmb-wii-uploader-1-5-million/

You can't say Activision won't pursue legal recourse... anymore than this aussie pirater thought Nintendo wouldn't find out he was responsible for being the first to upload a copy of NSMB.

Ignoring a C&D is not a trivial matter and I would strongly suggest you take a moment to review international copyright law before you continue to advocate ignoring the C&D.

As for taking the forums down, Yonkey has already stated the reason why they took the forums down was so they could comply with the C&D (which requires all materials related to the game in question to be taken down).  Yonkey and Cat will be going through the forums in great detail so they can better comply with the order and then put the remaining forums back in place, free of "materials related to the game in question".

Completely different situation. This guy not only leaked a full commercial game developed in full by Nintendo to an easily traceable medium (torrents? Really? You're going to be the first to leak something as big as this by... putting your IP address in a big, exposed pool instead of routing through numerous foreign proxies and posting to a more secure medium like Usenet? Okay buddy...)

Then this idiot went around on message boards and bragged about being the person who leaked it. Also, you'll note this guy got a slap on the wrist. A $1.5 million fine? Pfft, just an extra letter to toss in the trash each month. In America, you don't go to jail for being unable to pay. You just keep getting a letter begging you to pay up. Nothing happens if you don't.

Ignoring a C&D absolutely is a trivial matter as long as you take proper precautions. Anyways, I've already made my offer to host everything they think is "illegal." I've said my peace. Let's hope this team makes the right decision in the coming months after this has all settled down and comes up with a solution to avoid throwing away 8 years of work - be it of questionable legality or not.

I'd also hope this serves as a valuable lesson to future fangame developers: don't expose yourself so much unless you're actually working on a fangame based on a franchise from a good company that treats its customers right: like Valve. Activision is probably the greediest, most evil game corporation in existence right now. If you're gonna make a fangame based on one of their IPs, you better make sure your webhost is in Iran and don't divulge personal details about yourself. Unless it's Valve, you will ALWAYS get bitten in the ass when you try to work with a company.

-X