Main Menu

The Silver Lining - Cease and Desist

Started by Yonkey, February 27, 2010, 08:59:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

waltzdancing

It doesn't matter how big a company is, we can still try to change their minds. David slew Golieth didn't he? That was a large battle and Golieth was suppose to win but the bigger they come the harder they will fall. Keep faith Baggins. Don't give into despair, but believe, and hope. We will win, or Activision might as well get use to the constant mailings.

oberonqa

In the end, like Neil said, it all boils down to One.  All it takes is one person taking a stand inside of Activision and it'll start a chain reaction.  Many instances in history point to this very thing.  And yet, so much doubt and despair.

We won't throw in the towel... we will keep being heard.  I have no problem in contacting website after website, arranging interview after interview.  Whatever it takes and however long it takes to reach that one person who can start the chain reaction we need... I'll do it.  And I believe I speak not only of myself here, but of the rest of the Save TSL team (Waltz, Crayauctin, and Atec) as well. 

So keep spreading the word.  Every petition signature, letter, email, and survey just adds fuel to the fire that is business.  And yes, ladies and gentlemen, it's business.  Vivendi wrote TSL off because they had determined no one but a small handful of people would care about TSL being shut down.  They determined issuing a C&D would cause a few small ripples in the pond... but eventually the pond would return to calm stillness.  The fans proved them wrong and they took notice.

We will make Activision take notice.  Or, to expand on what Waltz said, they better get accustomed to negative publicity.  Every time TSL or the Save TSL Movement is mentioned on a website, that just creates more ripples in the pond that is public opinion.  Every time they receive a care package from Waltz, that's more ripples in the pond that is public opinion.

At what point does a ripple become a wave?  At what point does a wave become a tsunami?  These are questions that will become all to clear the longer we stay the course.  And I promise you this... the more people that support us, the more likely Activision will listen.  In the end they'll have about as much choice in the matter as the beach has against the tides of the ocean.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Dude

Errr, how about just removing any KQ references from the game??

atec123

Quote from: Dude on March 21, 2010, 01:25:32 AM
Errr, how about just removing any KQ references from the game??
A LAST resort.  That would take years.  If I had more time, I would quote some of the postsa that explained this perfectly.
http://savetsl.co.cc/
read all that stuff.  The interview has some nice info too.  As does this thread.
Official maintainer of TSL in linux via Wine. TSL AppDB page
Maintainer of TSL in OSX via Wine
TSL IRC Chatroom Maintainer
We are the Defenders of Jazz Ballet
People say, when they see us:
Hey, folks! It's the Saviours of Jazz Ballet
Fearless heroes of kick and spin

Baggins

That would be rather tough. Considering that most of the assets we have seen so far are directly derivitive of artwork from KQ6 or KQ7 material.

Most of the characters we have seen so far are based directly on characters from previous games (and the artwork from those games). Now, they could probably get away with using the royal robe wearing version of 'Graham' (as seen in the demo) and just change his name.

However, the version of the character with, the red shirt, blue hat/recfeather, black pants, would remain too close to the classic character to accused of "ripping-off".

However, their versions of Alexander, Rosella, even Valanice are so original they could probably be used by just changing the name. The clothes do not match any previous versions of the characters, and they could get away with them just being generic fantasy characters. Obviously their "original" villain could get away with just a name change, as that character has never appeared in previous games, and his appearance is generic anyways.

The biggest issue would be the locations.  For example the Green Isles (we have seen already). Unless the locations were modified enough that they no longer resemble the original locations, or fanciful enough to be considered complete parody (think Myst vs. Pyst), then it would still be possible for Activision to claim that intellectual property was stolen, if they wanted to.

If anything at this point if POS, wanted to go the method of making it a completely new universe, it would probably take another 5-8 years to finish. Since many of the assets probably would need to be replaced. I understand that they also have worked on completley original locations, those could definitely be retained.

But I'm guessing that the team wouldn't want to go through all the hard work to completly replace assets, if they can somehow convince Activision instead.

One thing I'm wondering about though, is if Activision is still planning on selling the IP to some new party (as there was talk of that earlier last year).

If may be possible that the new party is putting certain conditions on the IP before they are willing to buy it, which may include making sure they have complete control of it as much as possible. Even though Activision retains full rights to do with or what they want with VU's old contract with POS, the new company might see it as some kind of risk (conflict of interest, loss of IP control). They might see it as part of the IP existing outside of normal contracts.

Alternatively, it could be Activision who might see the POS as some kind of problem in negotiating the sell of the franchise to whatever party/parties has shown interest. They have been the one to nix it, so that it doesn't "get in their way" of selling the IP off. If the latter it is probably pure paranoia on Activision's part. Overzealous protection and securing of the IP, where there is no danger of losing it.

If any of this is going on, we won't be privy to any of it, unti Activision either decides to keep the IP, or sell it off. It probably won't become public until the decision has been signed. In anycase its possible that whatever is going on in Activision is more complicated than we actually understand it.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

I_am_so_nifty

All this talk of buying IP's...

Well, it may be a farfetched idea, but if Activision were to sell the King's Quest IP, maybe we could raise money to help POS buy it...

You know, if that were going to happen.

Just an idea.
This is Nifty, Royal Heir.

I'm like, an adult now or something? Sounds fake, but okay.

Cool DR Money

Can't you play the game, record it, and post the video on youtube?  There's no way THAT'S illegal...look at all the mash-up videos and tribute videos and whatnot that exist on there.  I, for one, at least want to SEE what happened. 

Yonkey

Quote from: Cool DR Money on March 21, 2010, 06:13:54 PM
Can't you play the game, record it, and post the video on youtube?  There's no way THAT'S illegal...look at all the mash-up videos and tribute videos and whatnot that exist on there. 
That would still be a violation of our C&D since it constitutes as use/display of TSL material.  And to be quite honest, watching someone else play through the game isn't as fun as physically playing it for yourself.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

blahmoomoo

Hmm...

So Activision requested that all visual, audio, and storyline media be taken down in their C&D.  I wonder why the C&D given to Crimson Echoes only requested the cease of hacking the Chrono Trigger ROM and deletion of all work toward the hack.  They have plenty of visual media still on their website, plus many videos on Youtube, including a complete playthrough of the last internal version that they had (and I assume that the playthrough videos were created before the C&D).

I'm not saying that Activision can't tell you to take down media related to the game.  It's just odd that SquareEnix did not demand that Crimson Echoes remove all derivatives (screenshots, gameplay videos, etc.) created from their ROM hacking pursuits.

Actually, they even have game sprites, the plot outline, and beta testing stuff on their site.  I guess anything that is not the ROM hack itself is ok to have up under the C&D, as long as it wasn't created by hacking the ROM after the C&D was issued.  I guess SE doesn't care.

oberonqa

Yea the Crimson Echoes C&D was a lot looser in terms of what it actually demanded.  I think Activision is trying to erase TSL from history, as their C&D targets just about everything.  Of course, as has been stated repeatedly, this is well within their rights as the legal owners of the IP... but it certainly doesn't do anything to reduce the "you'll play by my rules or you won't play at all" feeling.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

crayauchtin

Quote from: oberonqa on March 22, 2010, 09:04:53 AM
Yea the Crimson Echoes C&D was a lot looser in terms of what it actually demanded.  I think Activision is trying to erase TSL from history, as their C&D targets just about everything.  Of course, as has been stated repeatedly, this is well within their rights as the legal owners of the IP... but it certainly doesn't do anything to reduce the "you'll play by my rules or you won't play at all" feeling.
It is not within their rights to erase TSL from history (though they are certainly trying!), it is within their rights to cause Phoenix Online Studios to cease and desist -- as in stop. Present tense, concerning now and the future, not the past. That is all. There is absolutely not any right afforded to any entity to erase anything legal from history, and as POS was granted a fan license by Vivendi they were absolutely not breaking any laws.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

oberonqa

I was referring to the legality of C&D's in general... not the moral implications of the C&D, Crayauctin.  :)
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

jewelkid87

I don't visit very often but come here about once every 2 months to see what is going on. I came here two days ago only to find out about the C&D. I felt like crying....I feel terrible for the people who worked so hard on this project and for all of the fans.

I have signed the petition, joined the facebook group and have promoted youtube videos. I have gotten a few people that don't even know what KQ is to do so as well. I am going to write letters asap. We won't go down without a fight!! I am going to try make a page promoting this on my squidoo. as soon as I get time.

Best wishes to everyone...

splat44

#533
Quote from: oberonqa on March 22, 2010, 09:04:53 AM
Yea the Crimson Echoes C&D was a lot looser in terms of what it actually demanded.  I think Activision is trying to erase TSL from history, as their C&D targets just about everything.  Of course, as has been stated repeatedly, this is well within their rights as the legal owners of the IP... but it certainly doesn't do anything to reduce the "you'll play by my rules or you won't play at all" feeling.

What do mean by saying "...C&D target just about anything"?

By including C&D to prevent POS in reworking the game is wrong and illegal. Activision will not able to challenge this in any court of law. Any lawyers will agree with me at this point!


Again, if game needs to be reworked, POS definately needs joining with some kind of freeware associations that has legal background knowledge of the gaming industry to keep those greedy companies away!




Enchantermon

Quote from: splat44 on March 22, 2010, 03:31:05 PMWhat do mean by saying "...C&D target just about anything"?
I believe he (she? Sorry, I'm not sure) meant that it demanded the removal of everything related to the game from the website, including downloads, screenshots, videos, concept art, forums, designer journals...everything. In comparison, the SE one was very loose; they only asked for development to cease and for all work to be destroyed.
Quote from: splat44 on March 22, 2010, 03:31:05 PMBy including C&D to prevent POS in reworking the game is wrong and illegal.
If you mean preventing them from changing the game to remove all King's Quest references, then yes, that is illegal, but Activision did not ask for that in their C&D.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Yonkey

The C&D we received doesn't prevent us from reworking the game and removing all KQ-based IP, which is why it is still a last resort.  But as was previously said, going this route would mean considerable modification and recreation of a great deal of material.  It's not impossible to do, but there's no question that it would take time.  Given how close the game is to completion, I would much rather prefer to work out some kind of agreement with Activision.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

crayauchtin

Quote from: oberonqa on March 22, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
I was referring to the legality of C&D's in general... not the moral implications of the C&D, Crayauctin.  :)
...I know, that's why I was talking about laws. Reread what I said. :P
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

splat44

Thanks Enchatermon



Quote from: Yonkey on March 22, 2010, 09:31:16 PM
The C&D we received doesn't prevent us from reworking the game and removing all KQ-based IP, which is why it is still a last resort.  But as was previously said, going this route would mean considerable modification and recreation of a great deal of material.  It's not impossible to do, but there's no question that it would take time.  Given how close the game is to completion, I would much rather prefer to work out some kind of agreement with Activision.

All is clear,

By consider following plans:
(A) Activision to reverse C&D
(B) reworking game

Due to amount of time in reworking game, it might best to deal with plan B almost right away in case plan A doesn't lead anywhere?

Again plan B needs to done quietly of course!
Regards

Enchantermon

#538
Quote from: Yonkey on March 22, 2010, 09:31:16 PMGiven how close the game is to completion, I would much rather prefer to work out some kind of agreement with Activision.
I agree, and I would presume most people on here would also.
Quote from: splat44 on March 23, 2010, 01:08:54 AMThanks Enchatermon
You're welcome. :)
Quote from: splat44 on March 23, 2010, 01:08:54 AMDue to amount of time in reworking game, it might best to deal with plan B almost right away in case plan A doesn't lead anywhere?
Maybe, but if Activision does let up then all that work could be wasted. Besides, right now the team has enough to deal with in doing interviews and trying to convince Activision to work with them, so it's best if they focus their energies on that, I think.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Phil

I'm never buying games from Activision again!