Good, but somewhat diappointed

[Hituro]

Well I enjoyed playing through the first Episode, the nostalgia was great.  But I was kind of disappointed.  This really isn't much more than what was in the Demo.  And for those like me who've been waiting years and years for this to come out, I just feel a little robbed.  It only extends a little further than the demo, and even then, no real action takes place, just simply cut scenes.  I just hope there is a lot more to do in the future episodes.  After waiting for so long for another KQ, I want to do some real puzzle solving like in the good old days   Just assuming that maybe this is just an introduction, but I think you should have put out a bit more than what was in the demo

Regardless I still think you did an excellent job, and I was so happy to hear in Al Lowe's daily newsletter that you were able to get the ok from Activision!

[Farquhar]

I'd have to say there's actually quite a bit more than there was in the demo, but fear not my friend.... The intention behind Episode I was to reintroduce us all into the world of KQ and set the story in motion. Episode II is going to have much more to do.

[oberonqa]

Worry not my friend.... the remaining episodes have a great deal of puzzle-solving and gameplay in them.  I went through Episode 2 and it took me quite a while to work my way through it.  Try to think of Episode 1 as the prologue of a good book.  There's a lot of supposition and introductions in a prologue that set up the story to come.  That is what Episode 1 is... a prologue of sorts.  The real meat and potatoes will be the remaining episodes. 

[Hituro]

Well I guess my problem is, why didn't they just release Episode 1 and 2 together?  Why do I have to wait even longer when everything in Episode 1 was pretty much in the demo?  That's what I don't get.

[Tage7]

Well I guess my problem is, why didn't they just release Episode 1 and 2 together?  Why do I have to wait even longer when everything in Episode 1 was pretty much in the demo?  That's what I don't get.

I have no idea, but I'm glad it's out. It's no longer vaporware.

[wilco64256]

That much awesomeness at once would have resulted in far too many exploding heads.

[Baggins]

A new series of logic cliff puzzles could have helped the puzzle pacing a bit (instead of that silly staircase), I think...or followed the idea of the "greeters" from the Guidebook to the Land of the Green isles, and having had to convince the greeters to take you up to the city. The staircase also begs the question of why a race, that prizes there isolation and privacy, would want to build something that would make it easier for any joe blow to reach the city.

Guidebook:

The Isle of the Sacred Mountain, on first impression, appears to be nothing but a great wall of cliffs rising to the sky with no apparent means of scaling it. The visitor is soon met, however, by a pair of "greeters" of the Winged Ones race.

But as the saw warns, "Beauty is only skin deep." ...Thus completely dependent on the greeters to travel about the city or even leave, the visitor is humbled and loathe to much exploration. This appeared to me to be rather the intention, for the culture of the Winged Ones is a private one. On the Isle of Wonder I always felt welcome, despite the sometimes gruff nature of the inhabitants. They had a certain simplicity, an honesty about them. By contrast, although my reception with the Winged Ones was on the surface extremely polite, the formal words of welcome did not ring true. I sensed, in the eyes of that beauteous race, a disdain of common humanity, a haughtiness that made them suddenly irksome in their golden perfection in the eyes of this humble observer.

Perhaps a bit more interactivity in the conversations (alternate conversation choices). I agree that the auto-conversations were a bit much. Anyone who has played Monkey Island games might have an idea, how conversations work in that series (making them a bit more interesting).

In anycase, its a beautiful piece of art, and its easy to tell, they put alot of work into it, and although so far it has limited interactivity, I can't wait to see what the developers have in store in future episodes.

[crayauchtin]

I just want to know what happened to the Cliffs of Logic. Like where did they go??

[Baggins]

If you look at the steps, it says they were carved away recently to make that staircase. No real explanation really.

Also, TSL designers put them on the north side of the island, near Thorn Bay, rather than the south (as they were in KQ6/Companion)...  

[tessspoon]

Guess Alexander hated them more than we realize

[Hituro]

Didn't the narrator say that Alexander had Shamir create the steps?  Probably figured since the cliffs were already solved, might as well create a path for diplomatic reasons.  Also, I agree with where Graham docks... I too thought the entrance and the cliffs were at the south end of the isle...

[Baggins]

The game states;

What was a nearly insuperable set of puzzles known as the Cliffs of Logic, has now been replaced with a grand staircase winding its way up the mountain side leading to the city of the Winged Ones.

Unless I missed another alternate comment somewhere.

[liggy002]

Yeah, I suppose they could have kept the cliffs of logic but since they were already solved by Alexander it seems like kind of a pointless puzzle to have around.  As far as them not being on the south side of the island, let me get my catholic school ruler out, some one is getting a spanking    

Could it have had slightly more puzzles?  Yes, but they wanted to release the game at a certain time and since it was an introduction the content was acceptable.

[KatieHal]

What happened to the Cliffs of Logic will be answered later on.

I mean, really, you don't think the ace reporters at The Four Winds would let something like that go by and not write a story on it, do you? 

As for the discrepancy of location, well...looks like our Cliffs-turned-Staircase are on the North side!

Generally speaking, really, our primary sources were the previous games, not the Companion. Yes, I know, it's approved, etc, but I'm just letting you know that yes, we won't always conform to the Companion's facts and accounts (which, it's been pointed out, weren't always in agreement with the games either). What we looked to were the games first and foremost, like it or dislike it as you will.

[Baggins]

I can't figure out how you thought it was on the northside of the island, by looking at the games only? ...and how you thought that was a descrepency in the companion?

There are actually clues within the games, that imply its on the south side of the island as well. The least of which is the cardinal rule of classic adventure games, that forward is north, sides are east and west, and and bottom of the screen is south. The official Sierra hintbook followed that one   .

The only place that rule is thrown out, is in mazes, where the perspective changes each time you change screens, in order to make you lost, like Mordack's castle basement, or the streets of Shapeir, but in those cases you usually have a compass or have to find a compass to help you out.

In anycase, yes you can use the The Four Winds to retcon and explain things. But it probably should have been or should explained in the game itself, just in case, people overlook the The Four Winds as a source.

Its not like the The Four Winds is easy to navigate to, you don't even have a tab to it on yoru site. Just news links that get pushed off the page, as you release new news. Which means people would have to hunt for The Four Winds through archives. I doubt most people would bother doing that. Infact the main reason I've noticed the The Four Winds, is because I bother to keep track of your forums. The main place its been announced. But even then for those that don't look in the forums, its something that could easily be overlooked.

For that matter, people wouldn't know which issue to look in specifically.

[oberonqa]

I can't figure out how you thought it was on the northside of the island, by looking at the games only? ...and how you thought that was a descrepency in the companion?

There are actually clues within the games, that imply its on the south side of the island as well. The least of which is the cardinal rule of classic adventure games, that forward is north, sides are east and west, and and bottom of the screen is south. The official Sierra hintbook followed that one  .

The only place that rule is thrown out, is in mazes, where the perspective changes each time you change screens, in order to make you lost, like Mordack's castle basement, or the streets of Shapeir, but in those cases you usually have a compass or have to find a compass to help you out.

In anycase, yes you can use the The Four Winds to retcon and explain things. But it probably should have been or should explained in the game itself, just in case, people overlook the The Four Winds as a source.

Its not like the The Four Winds is easy to navigate to, you don't even have a tab to it on yoru site. Just news links that get pushed off the page, as you release new news. Which means people would have to hunt for The Four Winds through archives. I doubt most people would bother doing that. Infact the main reason I've noticed the The Four Winds, is because I bother to keep track of your forums. The main place its been announced. But even then for those that don't look in the forums, its something that could easily be overlooked.

Where exactly are the Cliffs of Logic on this map (screenshot taken while on the first screen of the Cliffs of Logic, by the way)?

Ignoring the hintbooks and the Companion (which you yourself have pointed out differs from the games on occasion), where exactly is the Cliffs of Logic?  It could be on the south side at that small little bay... or it could be on the north side at that small little bay.  Either way... where is the Cliffs of Logic on this map?

[Baggins]

The map isn't where the clues exist  .  try using the eye icon around the bottom and the top of the cliffs to get the description.

To be fair, the cliffs of logic weren't really in a bay Did you look at the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles?



That being said, the location of the cliffs is not particulary a big discrepency, in a world known for being in magical flux, and locations appearing and disappearing on whim (the geography of Daventry changing in each game). This is especially true for the Green Isles area that's close the edge of the world where magic is the strongest (Islands are known to appear or disappear, at times even the Isle of the Mists completely vanishes apparently), sometimes there are only four main islands rather than five (this info comes from Ali, Ferryman or the Pawne Shoppe owner ingame, btw). In such a world the the island could be flipped around, or cliffs could have been transported to another location on the island, etc, etc.

[KatieHal]

We are aware that there isn't a direct link to The Four Winds, it's something we're working on. That doesn't change the fact it's one source we're using to give some background on our game specifically.

Our Cliffs are on the North side, in a bay. I hardly take that small illustration as proof that they are not necessarily in one. Hah, and now I'm wondering why you are so adamantly arguing we got it wrong when you follow it up with saying it doesn't matter when the geography of this place is known to change?? (That's a rhetorical question.)

In any case, again, I'm done debating this.

[Baggins]

Heh, as I stated before the fact that its on the southern side of the island, is even mentioned in the game.   (don't even have to look at the KQC)

At the bottom of the cliffs;

Narrator (KQ6): Alexander is standing on the small sandy cove of a rocky island. Around him, sheer granite cliffs blocky any further movement east or west. To the south, he is blocked by the sea..."

At the top of the cliffs;

Narrator (KQ6) "Alexander is standing at the top of the Cliffs of Logic on the Isle of the Sacred Mountain. To the north, the peak of Sacred Mountain, scarred with the opening to the Oracle's cave, rises to the clouds. To the left, the doors to the catacombs stand open."

BTW, for anyone that takes the time to look, you'll find that each of the islands' beaches (or the following screen to the north) have similar messages that state that the beaches on each island lie on the southside of each island. This is ingame no going to the hintbooks, or companion. 

Hah, and now I'm wondering why you are so adamantly arguing we got it wrong when you follow it up with saying it doesn't matter when the geography of this place is known to change??

Just pointing out that it's location could be explained, although there is a bit of a descrepency with KQ6 sources. That being said, the Island of the Sacred Mountain is supposed to be one of the "permanent islands" that never changes, according to Hassan, and Ali, :p....

[Delling]

Ok... I'll admit that I haven't read this whole debate, but when I saw the steps, I figured that the Cliffs of Logic were safely still on the south side and that the steps were simply where the boat dropped you off. I.e.-the steps are for visitors. The map likely deposits you at the Cliffs of Logic because either 1) the sorcerer who made it knew the answer or thought he could figure it out and liked using the "backdoor" on the isle of the "uppity winged ones" or 2) it's the last place on the Isle of Sacred that he had it take him to (I once had that theory: how does map that only sends you to places near water decide where to deposit you on ISLANDS? ...it takes you to the last place you left said island from).

As for...

... why a race, that prizes their isolation and privacy, would want to build something that would make it easier for any joe blow to reach the city.

It has been stated in game that things are changing somewhat in the Land of the Green Isles. The economy is booming on the Isle of the Crown, etc. It's possible that with this better economy or in large part BECAUSE OF it, the isles are becoming a far more open and inviting place. Also, the Winged Ones may have found themselves more deeply indebted to the Crown than ever before when [spoiler]Alex returned their golden fleece... oh, and that Catacombs thing... and that whole rescuing their daughter thing[/spoiler] (possibly because Alex as a foreigner was an outsider to any relationship or fealty they had to the previous dynasties); as such, Alex might have been permitted a request, i.e.- the construction of the stairs.

Beyond that, "joe blow" would need a boat and the know-how required to use it in the seas around the Green Isles. It has been established in KQ6 that the ferry on the Isle of the Crown is practically the only way to get around the islands (apart from the magic map and Shamir, both of which it would seem are reserved for service to the Crown now).

The game states:

What was a nearly insuperable set of puzzles known as the Cliffs of Logic, has now been replaced with a grand staircase winding its way up the mountain side leading to the city of the Winged Ones.

Unless I missed another alternate comment somewhere.

This could be a case of vague wording: "What was..." could simply mean "the only way onto the island without an escort".

In anycase, its a beautiful piece of art, and its easy to tell, they put alot of work into it, and although so far it has limited interactivity, I can't wait to see what the developers have in store in future episodes.

Seconded.

Where exactly are the Cliffs of Logic on this map (screenshot taken while on the first screen of the Cliffs of Logic, by the way)?

I always thought it was at that little bay on the south.

Anyway, I'm glad you posted this. It saves me from having to go play KQ6 to see if the details of the names of the various bays, etc. were present then. Personally, I see the additional names on the map as being additional landing points for the ferry and hope we get to explore the Isles from each of these new vantage points!