Good, but somewhat diappointed

[Baggins]

Ok... I'll admit that I haven't read this whole debate, but when I saw the steps, I figured that the Cliffs of Logic were safely still on the south side and that the steps were simply where the boat dropped you off. I.e.-the steps are for visitors. The map likely deposits you at the Cliffs of Logic because either 1) the sorcerer who made it knew the answer or thought he could figure it out and liked using the "backdoor" on the isle of the "uppity winged ones" or 2) it's the last place on the Isle of Sacred that he had it take him to (I once had that theory: how does map that only sends you to places near water decide where to deposit you on ISLANDS? ...it takes you to the last place you left said island from).

Delling this has already been covered, but look at the cliffs near the steps, the narrator states;

What was a nearly insuperable set of puzzles known as the Cliffs of Logic, has now been replaced with a grand staircase winding its way up the mountain side leading to the city of the Winged Ones.

In other words in TSL (and supported by Katie), the cliffs are gone, having been replaced, and they placed them in the north (contrary to ingame text in KQ6). Katie said they have placed the cliffs of logic in the north (choosing to ignore the companion, and apparently KQ6 as well), and that the reason for the cliffs were removed, to build the steps. The steps will apparently be further explained in a future The Four Winds.

Ya, the new names on the maps are new inventions. Pretty interesting.

[B'rrr]

In any case, again, I'm done debating this.

Ha! I am suprised this went on for so long! I only got into it because I could not sleep last night 

[KatieHal]

Okay, now with the game description from KQ6 itself saying it was North/South etc, you're giving me something I can work with. (and no, I haven't read every post in this thread if that was said before)

In that case, then yes, the boat graphic goes to the incorrect side. Will it be fixed? I can't promise that--it depends on how difficult that is for the programmers, where it falls on the priority list, etc.

I'll also say, Baggins, that a lot of times the way you bombard these threads with arguments, sources (which are sometimes themselves conflicting), etc, and how you often phrase things tends to throw some people on the defensive right away. Myself included. It can be very frustrating to have every response one attempts to give met with another five sources, etc, that boil to down saying 'you're wrong, you're wrong!' over and over again. The game's my baby too--obviously, my first reaction is going to be to say 'no, it's perfect!', though I try to remain objective. Particularly with smaller points that don't ultimately add up to a glaring plot inconsistency or something like that. (i.e., what side of the map did the boat go to!)

[Baggins]

Here is another reference, before solving the cliffs puzzles;



On on a related note there are actually three coves on the southern edge of the island. A small one on the southwest side (a little dimple), the larger bay in the middle (which doesn't seem to have much of a beach, ), and another small dimple on the right side (where companion placed the Cliffs).





Said map from the companion, also shows the three southern coves, but exaggerates their size:p...

The middle bay makes more sense though.


Oh, don't think I'm attacking your game. I'm just very interested in pointing out the differences in the various games of the series. That kinda trivia fascinates me.

As for the cliff side animation, It's interesting to hear, that its something that may or may not be fixed in the future.

[B'rrr]

Wasn't it in Kings quest 6 (and maybe other KQ's too) that you always look from the south side anyways?

[Baggins]

Ya, in all the early KQ, 1-6 at least, you always looked 'north'. All description's describe the background as heading towards the north. If you wanted you to know of something important off the screen to the south (by typing in the parser, or the eye cursor), it would say you see something such, to the "south". East and west are the left and right side of the screens. This was particularly strange when you had the looping levels in early KQ1-3, in some cases you could see things both north and south of your character from almost the same location.

For example, in KQ3, you could see the bear's house directly north, from the top of the mountain, but you could also see the mountain directly north from the bear's house.   Yes, the game will tell you up is north if tell the parser to look at certain things in both instances.

The only exception I can think of was in KQ5 in Mordack's dungeon maze (in which the compass changed every time you changed directions, to confuse you).

[KatieHal]

The Cliffs of Logic aren't coming back--I meant the map animation of what shore the ferry boat goes to.

I try not to assume anything about what direction that screen faces--generally, yes, that orientation is correct, but for one example, sometimes in the desert in Quest for Glory 2, the orientation of the screen shifts to give you the best angle on whatever it is you're viewing. So basically, whatever angle of the screen you're seeing is 'the angle that best shows the screen and your character.'

[B'rrr]

I am not that bothered about the fact that cliffs of logic are on a different side anyways, I only brought it up in the other thread for the sake of keeping the discussion alive who is the better swimmer 

I do like the angles and camara movement from TSL though, it gives you much more the feeling that you are not just walking around with a static picture glued to the background.

[Baggins]

The Cliffs of Logic aren't coming back--I meant the map animation of what shore the ferry boat goes to.

I was referring to the map animation. It's just easier to call tha tlocation the "cliffs of logic" rather than the "Place fomerly known as the Cliffs of Logic". :p

I try not to assume anything about what direction that screen faces--generally, yes, that orientation is correct, but for one example, sometimes in the desert in Quest for Glory 2, the orientation of the screen shifts to give you the best angle on whatever it is you're viewing. So basically, whatever angle of the screen you're seeing is 'the angle that best shows the screen and your character.'

This is true, this is why its important to read all the ingame text around the screen to see where the designers orientate things.

Speaking of orientation, I've now updated each of the island articles in the Omnipedia, to include the quotes from KQ6, which state that each beaches' location is located on the southern edge of each island. This includes both the Sacred Mountain, as well the Isle of the Mists.

Narrator (KQ6): "From the northeast come the sounds of mysterous drums and chanting.", "Alexander is standing on the beach of a shrouded island. From here, two paths lead into the island; one to the northwest and one to the north east." "Two paths end at a clearing here. A path to the south leads back to the beach, and a path to the east leads inland

You didn't happen to put your Mist beach on the far east edge of the island did you?   The hotspot for landing in TSL  is on the far south (same as in KQ6), best I can tell.

Here are the quotes for Isle of Wonder;

Narrator (KQ6): "To the north, the island is dense with vegetation.", "To the north is dense, tropical vegetation. Near the shore are a dozen or so oyster beds."

The one I could find for Isle of the Beast;

Narrator (KQ6): "A path leads north through the forest"

The ones for the Isle of the Crown;

Narrator (KQ6): "A path leads north into the lush green island.", "A path leads inland to the north", "From the south, come the sounds of the sea."

[inaya]

To the game developers and potentially others, I think Baggins ongoing discussion here is actually an incredible kudos.  Most major franchises have a very well-developed "canon" that comes from these kinds of nit-picky arguments, and that canon is usually derived from multiple sources.  In fact, they usually have 1 or more individuals whose sole responsibility is to "keep the records" and sound off in debates.  It actually speaks well of both the Kings Quest franchise and these new additions that people still care enough to want to debate these facts (no matter how insignificant they may seem).  I hope you can get past the initial annoyance and apprehension and instead find inspiration!

I love debates like these - not only do they ferret out details (which of course only a small percentage of us probably care about), but for some of us perfectionist types, it can actually be fun.  For those that find these types of debates draining or useless, those individuals shouldn't read these types of posts at all because they will only annoy the heck out of you 

Anyway, I've enjoyed the discussion!

[Baggins]

Thank you Inaya . Ya, I do enjoy spotting the differences . Its not about hurting the teams feelings or anything.

[Hituro]

Wow, when I started this post it was simply just a comment about how I enjoyed the game, but was sade the first episode was so short.  I never realized it would turn into a debate about the cliffs of logic and the isle of the sacred mountain :p  I apologize ^^

[Tage7]

Wow, when I started this post it was simply just a comment about how I enjoyed the game, but was sade the first episode was so short.  I never realized it would turn into a debate about the cliffs of logic and the isle of the sacred mountain :p  I apologize ^^

Lol. No worries. It tends to happen a lot around here.

[B'rrr]

it is all part of our great plan, if all threads are going off topic then none are! 

[liggy002]

Whether you fix the cliffs location isn't all that important to me, but if you guys have the time by all means do.  It's also important to note that King's Quest VI states that islands and come and go.... for all we know the island could have rotated in this magical land 

[B'rrr]

Now I have this image of a mery-go-round-like-island...

[Baggins]

Ya, liggy the come and go is true. That's the case for the Isle of Mists apparently. But Ali also states that Isle of the Sacred Mountain, Isle of Wonder, Isle of the Beast, and Crown, are supposed to be the permanent, no changing ones

[wilco64256]

The Winged Ones rotated the island in a stepped-up effort to keep humans out and then Alexander showed them who the real boss was by cutting a staircase straight into their precious cliffs of logic.